Please support this Forum and Neven's Blog

Author Topic: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out  (Read 21597 times)

wili

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2011
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #450 on: July 26, 2017, 04:04:17 AM »
p wrote: "...Democrats are on track to take the House in 2018"

Wow.

That's the kind of overconfident hubris that got us Donnie.

Please

just


don't
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #451 on: July 26, 2017, 04:38:52 AM »
Re: "Would a slimy corporate Democrat seek to overturn Citizens United?  Yes, because while that Dem might get 60% of the total spending by corporations, his Republican opponent might get 80%.  He'll be happy to make do with less corporate money, if his opponent nets even less."

I do not share that belief. The only thing that corporate politicians of any stripe do is expand their money pipeline.

Re: " ... there is no Democrat of any stripe that should be opposed once the primaries are settled. "

Let us see what the primaries bring. Let us see if the DNC lawsuit in florida reforms party internals. Let us see if they screw Bernie again.

https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/05/01/dnc-lawsuit-youre-morons-to-believe-us-part-1-of-3/

https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/05/04/dnc-lawsuit-dnc-wont-answer-courts-basic-question-about-state-primary-deals-part-2-of-3/

https://thefloridasqueeze.com/2017/05/20/the-new-divine-right-of-the-dnc-part-3-dnc-lawsuit/

In the meantime i am looking for primary challengers to the more slimy democrats. Our Revolution and Justice Democrats are out there finding some.

sidd

budmantis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1169
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #452 on: July 26, 2017, 07:26:39 AM »
There's a strong case to get fresh progressive and corporate Democrat talent in the primary mix, but overall no, there is no Democrat of any stripe that should be opposed once the primaries are settled.  Democrats are on track to take the House in 2018, and Senate prospects will improve as the GOP continues it's destructive agenda.  Worst thing Democrats could do right now is swing to the populist far left, or repeat the behavior of the Bernie Bros and not line up behind the Dem candidate in every election.  Populist left purity is not reflective of the electorate in the swing seats that are in play.  Any Dem is preferable to a Republican.  If there's any group that needs to be kicked out, it's the populist purists on both the left and the right.  Progress can be made without the extremism and inflexibility.

Previous to the last election, I would be in complete agreement with you, now I'm not so sure. Conventional wisdom would say the Democrats would be in a position in 2018 to at least take the House, but considering the present landscape, that is no longer a given. The mood of the electorate has changed to the point that just being a "Democrat" isn't good enough to get elected, even under the present circumstances. The voter's need more from a candidate than lipservice.

That being said, I certainly plan to vote Democrat in 2018 and beyond even if the choices are less than optimal.

BudM

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #453 on: July 26, 2017, 11:27:06 AM »

Would a slimy corporate Democrat seek to overturn Citizens United?  Yes, because while that Dem might get 60% of the total spending by corporations, his Republican opponent might get 80%.  He'll be happy to make do with less corporate money, if his opponent nets even less.

I might be a European purist, but this seems a bit naive to me.

You may view it as Red Team vs Blue Team game, Steve, but I think that many politicians on both sides of the aisle are working for Team Me. Money corrupts. Always has, always will.

And again, first come the idea(l)s, then comes the strategy. You're still arguing the other way round. Maybe that's the best way to win, but nothing will ever change that way. Which means you lose.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #454 on: July 27, 2017, 02:40:12 AM »

You may view it as Red Team vs Blue Team game, Steve, but I think that many politicians on both sides of the aisle are working for Team Me. Money corrupts. Always has, always will.

And again, first come the idea(l)s, then comes the strategy. You're still arguing the other way round. Maybe that's the best way to win, but nothing will ever change that way. Which means you lose.

No, it's not Red Team vs Blue Team, it ordinary sinners against destructive demons.

This is a fixed, two-party system in the US.  The barriers to an effective third party are essentially insurmountable.

Every single candidate with an internal set of ideals has to compromise *some* of them, to *some* extent to get elected.  Each has to cobble together a coalition of support.  The two parties still have *very* different coalitions behind them.  They both get corporate money, but one gets a lot *more* and *dirtier* money.

Insisting on purity is how the Republicans became internally divided and ineffectual, even as they used their greater corporate money to win more elections.  Trying to insist on purity for the Democrats would lead to comparable party dysfunction, while magnifying the impoverishment of financial support.   It's profoundly counter-productive to insist on that kind of purity.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #455 on: July 27, 2017, 01:00:56 PM »
No, it's not Red Team vs Blue Team, it ordinary sinners against destructive demons.

Looks like the ordinary sinners happily applaud a destructive demon with cancer who leaves his death bed to deprive 33 million Americans of health care. Brazen.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #456 on: July 27, 2017, 01:50:06 PM »
No, it's not Red Team vs Blue Team, it ordinary sinners against destructive demons.

Looks like the ordinary sinners happily applaud a destructive demon with cancer who leaves his death bed to deprive 33 million Americans of health care. Brazen.

Senate Democrats applauded McCain's short-term triumph over glioblastoma.  That's called being decent.

Voting in favor of a motion to proceed isn't the same as voting for a bill.

McCain's position is quirky, nuanced, but he has NOT supported any legislation that would kick people off Medicaid.  He voted in favor of a procedural motion to proceed to debate, because for 200 years the Senate *always* and *automatically* did so with all legislation brought to the floor.

His clearly-stated position is that health care legislation should proceed according to "regular order."  That is, bills go through relevant committees with public hearings and broad input from the public.  His vote for the procedural motion was completely consistent with that perspective, but utterly infuriating to those of us who would have strongly preferred to shut the whole current process down.

It might be for the best that he did so.  For the next couple of days, the Republicans will be advancing various "amendments" subsequent to the procedural hurdle just passed.  It appears they will all fail, after nail-biting with each vote.  This will continue to disgust the far-right of the country (already apoplectic over zero legislative achievements), and empower progressive organizers. 

The Republican Senators will all go home on Saturday, to constituents (both left AND right) who essentially all hate them--hate them for what they failed to do, or hate them for what they tried to do.  And it's all utterly self-inflicted.

ritter

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 487
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #457 on: July 27, 2017, 10:59:36 PM »
I agree with the need to get some new faces, energy and ideas into the Dem party. Question: how does one accomplish things like servicing their mortgage,  paying health care bills and getting their children through college while campaigning? I've never known how that would work and seems like a real problem to get workin stiffs (you know, those people that actually have to live with  shit policy decisions) into politics.

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #458 on: July 28, 2017, 07:16:08 PM »

Voting in favor of a motion to proceed isn't the same as voting for a bill.

McCain's position is quirky, nuanced, but he has NOT supported any legislation that would kick people off Medicaid.  He voted in favor of a procedural motion to proceed to debate, because for 200 years the Senate *always* and *automatically* did so with all legislation brought to the floor.

His clearly-stated position is that health care legislation should proceed according to "regular order."  That is, bills go through relevant committees with public hearings and broad input from the public.  His vote for the procedural motion was completely consistent with that perspective, but utterly infuriating to those of us who would have strongly preferred to shut the whole current process down.

As an illustration of the above, the ObamaCare repeal effort seems now utterly dead:   
(from WaPo)
-- A last-ditch effort to keep the Obamacare repeal push alive went down by a vote of 51 to 49 in the wee hours of Friday morning, with three GOP members breaking ranks: John McCain, Susan Collins and Murkowski.

I think McCain has here redeemed himself as a Republican with a heart. 

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #460 on: August 01, 2017, 11:42:18 PM »
Philly democratic machine is a cesspool. Somebody needs to primary this guy:

http://observer.com/2017/07/congressman-robert-brady-corruption-hillary-clinton/

sidd

Jim Pettit

  • Global Moderator
  • ASIF Upper Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #461 on: August 02, 2017, 01:32:27 PM »
Philly democratic machine is a cesspool. Somebody needs to primary this guy:

http://observer.com/2017/07/congressman-robert-brady-corruption-hillary-clinton/


Two things:

1) Philadelphia's Democratic is indeed a corrupt, incestuous mess in need of a major enema.

2) Take what you read in The Observer with a boulder-sized grain of salt. This is, after all, the news outlet purchased, owned, and published by Trump's SIL Jared Kushner, and one of the only ones in the country to--surprise!--endorse Trumpo for President. (And on a side note: did you see how they slyly added Clinton's name to the URL for SEO purposes, even though Brady was only tangentially related to her, and that nearly a decade ago? That's like shoehorning in Bill Clinton's name in a 2017 online review of cigars or blue dresses.)


sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #462 on: August 04, 2017, 11:38:55 PM »
i suppose this is one way to get the corporates out ... but not exactly what i had in mind.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-west-virginia-governor-idUSKBN1AJ2WN

sidd

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #463 on: August 05, 2017, 12:00:35 AM »
i suppose this is one way to get the corporates out ... but not exactly what i had in mind.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-west-virginia-governor-idUSKBN1AJ2WN

sidd



But, but, but - - - I was so sure that the deplorables would see things our way.
Damn Russians!
Terry

Jim Pettit

  • Global Moderator
  • ASIF Upper Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #464 on: August 05, 2017, 02:00:41 PM »
i suppose this is one way to get the corporates out ... but not exactly what i had in mind.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-west-virginia-governor-idUSKBN1AJ2WN

sidd


So an opportunistic coal billionaire who was a lifelong Republican before becoming a "Democrat" w-a-a-a-y back two years ago so he could run for governor, a man who never supported the Democratic nominee for president, and who thinks climate change is a hoax, pulled a bait-and-switch so he could cozy up to Trump.

Why, this is shocking, and very disheartening. :\

TLDR: good riddance.

Jim Pettit

  • Global Moderator
  • ASIF Upper Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #465 on: August 05, 2017, 03:35:17 PM »
I've noted a few self-described progressives doing the same thing they did to Clinton: taking pot-shots at Kamala Harris and every other person on the left who isn't Bernie Sanders. So I have to ask them:

What the hell is wrong with you?

Rebecca Schoenkopf over at Wonkette really summarizes things better than I can, or thus will, so I will defer to her:

"First we should ax Nancy Pelosi, because we’ve all seen that being able to whip votes is totally unimportant in a leader, and she is not “new blood” and also she is to blame for losing the House when all the statehouses gerrymandered their shit to hell and back. Those who criticize her and/or want to replace her all run to her right — no really, look it up! Tim Ryan of Ohio, whose name always comes up as the anointed Pelosi replacement, is ranked as the 122th most progressive member of the House. Kathleen Rice of New York, who went after her during the most recent wave of Pelosi-bashing, is ranked 166th. Pelosi? Just sitting there being a corporate sell-out at #26. But since when do purity tests matter?"

There's more than a little racism and sexism behind the anti-Harris, anti-Booker, anti-Gillibrand, anti-Gabbard, anti-Pelosi hysteria. Yes, we *do* need to rid the Democratic Party of corporatists. But wholesale rejection of every politician who's ever taken so much as a dime from any entity with "Inc" after its name is unrealistic, wrong-headed, and hurtful to progressive causes.

Also, stop buying into Russian propaganda. But that's a comment for another forum. ;)

Tor Bejnar

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1493
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #466 on: August 05, 2017, 05:23:36 PM »
Thanks, Jim.  I seldom read this thread because I have a sense some are subtly "buying into Russian propaganda" that many progressives (alas, including me) have suffered.

When in New Zealand in the 1970s, I joined the Values Party, a pre-Green political party.  (I discovered later that I slightly knew its founder.)  The party platform was great (ultimately causing NZ to go nuclear free, by having this part of their party platform co-opted by a major party) but the guys I met in the local party headquarters pretty much all seemed to be young men who wanted to be big fish, and it was easier to be seen as one in a small pond.  (When 'just talking' around a coffee table, they didn't express Values values!)

I've known 'purists' who retired young and moved deep in the woods to get away from the hypocrisy (one couple in N.Mex. hiked out 2 or 3 times a year  (once to pay taxes) - a group of us snow-shoed in once on Christmas Day and they made hot chocolate for us, I recall).  I may envy their independence and life skills, but their influence on wider society approached nil.

So where is the happy medium?
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

pileus

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 337
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #467 on: August 06, 2017, 12:58:14 AM »
Also, stop buying into Russian propaganda. But that's a comment for another forum. ;)

The alt-left and SJW crowd will struggle to make meaningful progress on kicking out the corporate Democrats and their other various pet causes if they continue to live in the world of conspiracy theory and act as mouth pieces for propaganda from Russia/GOP/Fox News.

It's especially ironic to observe this behavior among climate change and environmental advocates who live in the world of science and data, and who battle against deniers that twist facts and push propaganda.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #468 on: August 07, 2017, 05:58:53 PM »
Alt-left, sexist, racist. Trump may have needed Russian trollbots to swing stupid people, but Corporate Democrats have real people to do that for them.  ;) :D

BTW, has anyone seen this mind-blowing stuff? This DNC guy talks so much sense at Politicon, it's amazing!

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #469 on: August 07, 2017, 07:12:20 PM »
There's more than a little racism and sexism behind the anti-Harris, anti-Booker, anti-Gillibrand, anti-Gabbard, anti-Pelosi hysteria. Yes, we *do* need to rid the Democratic Party of corporatists. But wholesale rejection of every politician who's ever taken so much as a dime from any entity with "Inc" after its name is unrealistic, wrong-headed, and hurtful to progressive causes.

You can take out 'anti-Gabbard', because she doesn't belong in that group, not being a Corporate Democrat suspect. And I don't know Gillibrand.

I can't assess this, being in Europe and everything, but I think that you have to be very careful with making these allegations, because they're generalizing a whole group of people. Most people who support what people like Sanders and Warren stand for, are most of the time very progressive and thus non-sexist and non-racist, being real lefties, some of them hippies. At least, that's how it looks to me from afar.

The second problem is that Corporate Democrats will hide behind this to fend off criticism by conjuring squirrels as a decoy. You're criticizing Cory Booker? Oh, you must be racist, because he's black. What is that you say about Kamala Harris (the donors' anointed one at the moment, it seems)? You must be racist AND sexist, because she's black AND a woman.

That's dangerous. Not only for the debate, but also because it alienates more people than one may think, just like the 'deplorables' stuff did. And it makes those words hollow, so that when the real sexists and racists come along, people may go: Well, those progressives or Berniebros or Alt-left people (whatever the latest smear-meme is) weren't sexist or racist, so maybe these people aren't that sexist or racist either. These words become devoid of all meaning when applied to a whole group of people they can't be applied to.

The same goes for individuals. Attempts have been made to paint Bernie Sanders himself as a sexist and racist. Not only is this preposterous, as the guy is super-oldschool-decent, but what does that make Trump? Trump can hide behind that, saying 'Well, they said Bernie was a sexist and racist too. Those people are out of their minds'. So, be careful with that. Sometimes it may be true, but sometimes it is used to cloud the issue and draw the attention away.

As for your second paragraph: I agree, but the purity test doesn't necessarily apply to the past, but more to what happens from now on. I'm sure that in the corrupted campaign money system people have been forced to make concessions, but maybe now that Sanders has shown another way forward (and Obama did too in a way), they're willing to take a stand and say: No, from now on I'm no longer accepting corporate money for my campaign. To show that I mean business when I say I want to represent and work for the people. That Ro Khannah guy comes to mind. Okay, give him a chance to prove what he says.

So, will you stop taking donor money from now on? Will you support single payer/universal healthcare? Will you make college tuition free? Are you for strong unions? Are you for bringing the troops back home and ending the wars, investing all that money in infrastructure and jobs instead of giving it to the military-industrial complex? Are you for further regulating Wall Street?

These are all legitimate questions to see what Democrat candidates stand for. They have nothing to do with racism or sexism. People need to hear more than 'We're not Trump'. I think that if enough people get behind this, real change could occur.

This investigative reporter lady sums it up nicely:

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

jai mitchell

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1744
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #470 on: August 07, 2017, 08:04:35 PM »
Alt-left, sexist, racist. Trump may have needed Russian trollbots to swing stupid people, but Corporate Democrats have real people to do that for them.  ;) :D

BTW, has anyone seen this mind-blowing stuff? This DNC guy talks so much sense at Politicon, it's amazing!

! No longer available


unfortunately, this was not an actual DNC representative but rather a ruse interview with a "YES MEN".  I think it was very well done and explains quite clearly why the bankrupt democratic party (and republican party) establishment are destroying this country (and the world!) for their personal gain.
Haiku of Past Futures
My "burning embers"
are not tri-color bar graphs
+3C today

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #471 on: August 07, 2017, 08:23:38 PM »
Alt-left, sexist, racist. Trump may have needed Russian trollbots to swing stupid people, but Corporate Democrats have real people to do that for them.  ;) :D

BTW, has anyone seen this mind-blowing stuff? This DNC guy talks so much sense at Politicon, it's amazing!

! No longer available


unfortunately, this was not an actual DNC representative but rather a ruse interview with a "YES MEN".  I think it was very well done and explains quite clearly why the bankrupt democratic party (and republican party) establishment are destroying this country (and the world!) for their personal gain.



Thanks for the heads up!!


The Yes Men got me again. I couldn't for the life of me understand how the DNC had not only seen the light, but was ready to cut their financial ties to the corporations who have been paying their salaries for so many decades.
It really is doable, a meeting like this could actually occur, but not while the party leaders are more concerned with their pocketbook and their retirement than representing their constituents.


Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #472 on: August 07, 2017, 08:40:33 PM »
unfortunately, this was not an actual DNC representative but rather a ruse interview with a "YES MEN".  I think it was very well done and explains quite clearly why the bankrupt democratic party (and republican party) establishment are destroying this country (and the world!) for their personal gain.

I know it was the Yes Men, but I didn't want to spoil their goal, which is to get people thinking.  ;)

I'm a huge fun of the Yes Men, BTW. That stuff they did with Bhopal and Shell etc is legendary.

But just imagine if the DNC would come out and say such things (what most people in the US want). Wow.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #473 on: August 08, 2017, 01:05:19 AM »
Neven
The Democrats would win with huge pluralities if they ran on the Yes Men platform. The problem is that they are running out of time. Once 2018 is over, and the decadal census opens the gates to further gerrymandering, Democrats might win numerically at the poles only to find themselves losing in Congress.


A big win in 2018 is desperately needed, particularly in races for state offices. It's hard to win when your sponsors won't allow you to run using popular, populist programs. If they again run nothing but negative campaigns, they will lose many otherwise winnable races. If they lose many winnable races, the decks in most states will be stacked to such an extent that no one but Republicans can walk away with the prize(s).


The Democrats need to act now in order to have any chance of a big win in 2018, and anything less than a big win at the state level in 2018 will assure Republican control until at least 2030. We've wasted 6 months crying that the Russians ate our homework, less than 17 months are left to put together a winning platform, to vet candidates that can talk about single payer healthcare, a livable minimum wage, and the importance of strong unions. Then we need time to successfully campaign on these topics. Every day that passes cuts our odds of winning.


It's up to the Democrats to man up and trust that small donors can fill their coffers, otherwise they'll be the (well funded), "loyal opposition" for decades to come.


Terry

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #474 on: August 09, 2017, 08:38:31 AM »
Tim Canova is primarying Wasserman-Schulz. She already had a hard time with the DNC leaks showing her screwing Sanders, lawsuit against DNC in Florida, and now with the Imran Awan story breaking, i think she is screwed. DNC should put her out to pasture, perhaps in some country that wont extradite.

sidd

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #475 on: August 09, 2017, 10:48:45 AM »
Tim Canova is primarying Wasserman-Schulz. She already had a hard time with the DNC leaks showing her screwing Sanders, lawsuit against DNC in Florida, and now with the Imran Awan story breaking, i think she is screwed. DNC should put her out to pasture, perhaps in some country that wont extradite.

After enhanced interrogation.
Terry
sidd

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #476 on: August 10, 2017, 11:11:49 PM »
I like Cenk Uygur.

Howard Dean Hates The 'Whiny' Left

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #477 on: August 11, 2017, 08:56:20 PM »
Jimmy Dore, Ron Placone and Rick Overton are really crushing it in this one:

Democrats So F’d Up Even Fox News Notices

! No longer available


Il faut cultiver notre jardin

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #478 on: August 11, 2017, 10:55:23 PM »
Dore had been slipping of late, but that one is pretty good.

"The only people complaining about purity tests are those who can't pass them ... "

sidd

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #479 on: August 11, 2017, 11:57:40 PM »
Jimmy Dore, Ron Placone and Rick Overton are really crushing it in this one:

Democrats So F’d Up Even Fox News Notices

! No longer available

The Democrats can win in 2018. The Democrats must sweep the state races in 2018 because the winners will decide the gerrymandered redistricting that defines the fields that the 2020, 2024, and 2028 federal elections will be played out on.


We can't assume that an independent Supreme Court will rule fairly, nor should there be any hope that Trump's future appointments will prove any more unbiased than his recent choice.
The Republicans have the Presidency, the Senate, and Congress. They've a majority of the Supreme Court and 34 out of 52 governorships. They control both houses in 32 states compared to the 13 states where Democrats lead both chambers.


We need to wrest control of at least 9 states from Republican hands if we're to have any chance after the districts are redrawn.


It's obvious from the numbers that if they continue with their message, and we continue with ours, we'll simply fall even further behind. We've been given these messages by our sponsors, sponsors who may not care whether we win or not, as long as their particular ox is not gored.


We're bound by our sponsors to campaign on the same page as our Republican opponents, who are also beholden to the same deep pocketed contributors. Voters are to chose between candidates that express very similar positions on all of the important initiatives, so it shouldn't come as a surprise when many races are determined by the candidates looks or demeanor rather than the substance of his or her platform.


Negative campaigning has become the norm. Don't vote for him because; he has bad hair, is overweight, chases skirts (or little boys), but never a question about his policies because his policies are your policies as dictated by both of your sponsors.
As long as deep pocketed contributors call the shots, politics degenerates into a beauty pageant where the cut of ones jib is more important than promises to cut a program.


If Democrats can break with the big contributors they can campaign for things that most Americans want, but that are opposed by their sponsors. Campaign for real healthcare that cares for the ill not the insurance companies. Campaign to bring the boys home, to cap military spending, to end spying on Americans, and to never charge more for a drug than say Canada does.


There are so many different directions to go in that it boggles the mind.


Wherever American's wants and needs differ from Deep Pocket's wants and needs an opportunity presents itself. There is no district that isn't vulnerable to a campaign that promises to deliver something that a candidate beholden to Big Money simply can not offer.


It requires courage to stand up to the disinformation that will ensue. It requires leadership that values voters over sponsors, and it won't win every election against determined opposition.
It will win many seats, it will weaken the opposing forces, and it may swing the country back into progressive hands.


It's the only winning strategy left.
Terry

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #480 on: August 14, 2017, 05:57:16 PM »
Here's a short one from The Young Turks:

Corporate Democrats Shame Journalists For Doing Their Job!

! No longer available


I particularly like this quote:

The alt-left says 'hey, we should have single payer healthcare', the alt-right says ' we should kill everyone who's not white'  and then the Corporate Democrats say 'I can't tell the difference between those two'.


It really is a very dirty smear.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile

Jim Pettit

  • Global Moderator
  • ASIF Upper Class
  • *****
  • Posts: 1057
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #482 on: August 15, 2017, 01:03:29 PM »
Warren sounds like she's running in 2020. Read her whole speech:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2017/08/14/elizabeth-warrens-advice-for-democrats-dont-fall-back-to-the-center/

sidd

I've always liked Warren, and would probably support her. My worry, of course, is that either she'll be a) ignored and cut off from the DNC for not moving to the weak and mushy center, or b) she'll actually sidestep to that center on her own to keep the election cash pouring in. 'A' will cost her mainstream support, as centrist/corporatist Dems will portray her as weak and out-of-touch, while 'B' will alienate progressive-minded types.

Basically the same can be said of pretty much any progressive candidate. Which is, of course, a large part of the reason we find ourselves where we are.

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #483 on: August 21, 2017, 11:23:13 PM »
Here's something I wasn't aware of, the consultant class leeching donor money, creating these 2020 Presidential election hypes:

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #484 on: August 25, 2017, 05:33:27 AM »
Our Revolution inching along.

"Woodfin’s strong performance keeps alive another pickup opportunity for Our Revolution, which has had greater success since November with candidates it backs at the local and state levels. Victories for the left-leaning group include the elections of Chokwe Antar Lumumba as mayor of Jackson, Mississippi; Christine Pellegrino as a member of the New York state Assembly; and Larry Krasner as the Democratic nominee for district attorney of Philadelphia."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/randall-woodfin-birmingham-alabama-mayor-runoff_us_59988b9ce4b0e8cc855e0b86

sidd

SteveMDFP

  • ASIF Citizen
  • Posts: 273
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #485 on: August 25, 2017, 03:52:18 PM »
Here's something I wasn't aware of, the consultant class leeching donor money, creating these 2020 Presidential election hypes:

! No longer available


It's grossly misleading.  There's just criticism here of the DNC and "the Democratic Party." None of this commentary makes sense without comparison to the RNC and with other electioneering funding streams.  The far, far bigger story is with the PACs, Super-PACs, and "dark money," which together dwarf the DNC/RNC as funders for campaigns.

As far as the "dark money" part *alone*,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_money
In the 2012 election cycle, more than $308 million in dark money was spent, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.[10] An estimated 86 percent was spent by conservative groups, 11 percent by liberal groups and 3 percent by other groups.[10]


Sadly, elections and public opinions are heavily swayed by strategic spending.  Democrats lost seats not because of failed strategy or failed policies, but because of  a massive disadvantage in fund-raising.   

Courting the less toxic corporations and donors isn't the cause of the losses, it's the only viable strategy for retaining some seats and influence.

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #486 on: September 08, 2017, 12:44:46 AM »
I posted this in another thread but i think this is another straw in the wind indicating the need of the democratic party to go left. the young in the USA are moving that way, and as someone said, demographic is destiny.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/02/socialism-young-americans-bernie-sanders

sidd

ivica

  • ASIF Middle Class
  • Posts: 535
  • Kelele
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #487 on: September 29, 2017, 12:21:28 AM »
vote humans in?

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #488 on: September 30, 2017, 11:06:22 PM »
I could've posted several videos in the past couple of weeks, all saying the same thing, of course (which is an indication that I'm probably also one of those people who consume news that agrees with their opinions), but I must say I've really enjoyed this series of interviews with Thomas Frank on the Real News Network, done by Paul Jay, who is a really good interviewer, I think.

Here's the last video of six, the last part of which is really good, I think (text posted below video), because it's a summary of what this entire thread is about:

! No longer available


PAUL JAY: But let me just end up by getting us back to the moment we're in. How dangerous do you think the moment we are in is? What do you think people should do about it?

THOMAS FRANK: I thought it was, on election night and a few weeks after that, I was very afraid. I have a family. I'm, obviously, deeply concerned for the future of this country. I love this country. I was very worried about Donald Trump becoming president. You know what's made me feel relieved? Is to learn how incompetent he really is. This guy, he's got a Republican Congress. He still can't get anything done. That's a huge, enormous relief for me.

PAUL JAY:   For now.

THOMAS FRANK: For now. Right. No, there's still... He could screw up foreign policy so easily because the president has so much...

PAUL JAY:   As I said earlier, Pence is in the wings.

THOMAS FRANK: Look, like I said, the next Trump is going to be much worse than this Trump. The next one, what Trump proved again, is how to beat the Democratic Party. Until the day the Democratic Party takes a long cold look in the mirror, and understands where they have gone wrong, and by the way, I'm ready. The minute they want to have me come and talk to them about it, I'm ready to do it.

PAUL JAY:   But as you said, they got a vested interest in ...

THOMAS FRANK: Yeah, they're not interested in that.

PAUL JAY:   They got a vested interest in not seeing that.

THOMAS FRANK: In never seeing that, exactly. In never taking that long look in the mirror. But the day they do, they will start to understand what they have done, and they will also start to understand how to defeat these guys. This is a long... Remember now, if you take one thing away from this, this is a long process. This is not Trump. This goes back to Nixon. This goes back to Reagan. This goes back to Wallace.

PAUL JAY:   It goes back to financialization of the whole economy.

THOMAS FRANK: Yes, it does. I mean, the strategy that Trump used: the fake populism that Trump used. This is deep in the... this is a strategy invented years ago. And by the way, the string that the Democrats are playing out also goes back to that same period in the late '60s and early '70s when they decided they weren't going to be a party of working class people anymore, and they weren't going to be interested in the New Deal anymore. They were going to be a very different party. A party of the information economy, the postIndustrial economy. They made an incredible blunder at that time and they've never looked back. They've never questioned that blunder, and until the day they do.

PAUL JAY:   When I say how dangerous a moment, it's only partially about Trump. When you add climate change into the equation ...

THOMAS FRANK: Yes. And our inability to act.

PAUL JAY:   There's kind of no time for the normal long-term process.

THOMAS FRANK: If you really want to end on a depressing note, Paul, just a short time ago, I for one, felt like we had the answers within our grasp. Barack Obama, 2008. Here he comes. These enormous crowds. He's so smart. I had met him. I lived in Hyde Park, his neighborhood in Chicago. He was my state senator. I admired that man. I wanted him to be great. I thought he was going to be great. I looked at him and I thought, I saw Franklin Roosevelt. I thought this is the Franklin Roosevelt for our time. Here comes the right man at the right moment with the right ideas, and it didn't happen.
He had the power and he had the people behind him. He had the world behind him and it didn't happen. That is, I think that is in a way far more depressing than Donald Trump. That we had the man, and we had the energy and we had the ideas, and it... I don't want to say we blew it because I don't feel like we did. But yeah, our side blew it.

PAUL JAY:   Maybe the thing that hopefully won't be so depressing, and 2020 I think is going to be the most decisive election in the history of the country. If the broad majority of people who had that feeling about Obama learn the lesson, and learned "Listen Liberal", learned the lesson, because maybe then that can be a turning point.

THOMAS FRANK: But we're all, of course we're all...

PAUL JAY:   If people drink the Kool-Aid again...

THOMAS FRANK: We're all prisoners of, I mean now we're in the aftermath of that sort of golden moment of 2008, 2009, and we're prisoners of our hope that we had for Barack Obama, and we don't want to let that go. Other people have watched their way of life slip away. Everything has gotten worse. Inequality is out of control. Other people have gone for Trump. Trump is like this sort of Obama through the looking glass, promising a sort of curdled hope, a kind of resentment and outrage, but appealing to a lot of the same people, a lot of the same emotions. We're in the backwash of hope now. It's going to take, it's going to take something, an extraordinary effort to pull that off again. I don't know if the world will go along with that.
I mean, you can have heroic individuals here and there, Bernie Sanders, but Barack Obama, you had the heroic individual, but you also had history cooperating in a financial crisis that gave him that moment of possibility, and that's not going to happen again. Or it might happen again, and instead put the power in the hands of a completely different kind of individual. I'm sorry, I should never end on a note like this, but I think to be realistic about where we are, you have to look this thing in the face.

PAUL JAY:   You got to.

THOMAS FRANK: That's what happened to us.

PAUL JAY:   Because you can't, we can't keep living our lives as if it's all normal. You can't keep doing business as if it's all normal. We ain't in a normal moment of history. There were moments like this before but never so existential.

THOMAS FRANK: There's another problem, is that we can't be critical. Democrats love to imagine that they're the party of intellect, and the party of discernment and learning, and that they can see through, they can pierce the veil and they can see through the phoniness. But we have tremendous problems turning our scrutiny on the Obama period and on what happened. That's what I tried to do in "Listen Liberal." I invite your viewers to read it. It's a first step in a process that has to happen.

PAUL JAY:   Well I hope you'll be back. We'll do the '90s. We'll do the Obama years.

THOMAS FRANK: I'd love to. Don't forget George W. Bush and the wrecking crew.

PAUL JAY: All right. Thanks for joining us.

THOMAS FRANK: You got it man. Any time.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #489 on: September 30, 2017, 11:26:31 PM »
And I liked this one from Jimmy Dore:

Kamala Harris Vs. Elizabeth Warren On Medicare For All

! No longer available


And another comparison:

Compare & Contrast: Nancy Pelosi & Nina Turner

! No longer available
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #490 on: October 01, 2017, 09:50:03 PM »
Thanks for the link to the Thomas Frank interview. Here are some people running against corporate monopolies:

https://theintercept.com/2017/10/01/anti-monopoly-candidates-are-testing-a-new-politics-in-the-midterms/

sidd

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #491 on: October 02, 2017, 08:23:21 AM »
If this bill ever makes it to the floor (ha! fat chance) there will b a clean cleavage seen between democrats for war and those opposed.

http://news.antiwar.com/2017/10/01/bipartisan-house-bill-would-end-us-involvement-in-saudi-war-in-yemen/

sidd

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #492 on: October 02, 2017, 09:37:37 PM »
Here's some more Jersey corporate democrat machine:

"60 elected Democrats endorsed Christie. "

" ...  in the 2013 gubernatorial race the Democratic Party failed to support its own candidate, Barbara Buono."

" When Christie launched an aggressive assault on the pensions and health-care benefits of state employees in 2011, he did so with the support of Norcross, DiVincenzo, and other Democratic bosses, whose allies in the Assembly joined the Republican governor to give him the margin he needed to pass the changes despite massive protests outside the State House by the NJEA, the CWA, and other unions."

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/10/02/new-jersey-is-a-one-party-state/

Another article about the Norcross mafia and what they did to Camden (one of the "sacrifice zones" of modern capitalism, in Chris Hedges memorable phrase)

"A trio of brothers heads the machine: George, Phil, and Donald Norcross." And Lois Capelli. And Steve Sweeney. And  a bunch more. Remember those names.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-law/the-untold-tragedy-of-cam_b_9401640.html

I go thru and by Camden now and then. Chris Hedges is absolutely right.

sidd





Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #493 on: October 02, 2017, 10:03:49 PM »
And now, with Trump in office, George W Bush actually seems like a swell guy:

Corp. Democrats Disgusting Rehabilitation Of George Bush

! No longer available


Pretty insane...
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

Buddy

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2067
  • Go DUCKS!!
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #494 on: October 02, 2017, 10:22:32 PM »
Yes....it is pretty insane.  Too bad that it is TRUE.  I'm afraid Donnie will make ANYONE and EVERYONE look palatable by comparison.  Even Bush.
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

wili

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2011
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #495 on: October 02, 2017, 10:33:23 PM »
Trump is truly horrific. But so far he has not done what baby bush did...open up an entire new war (Iraq) against a country that basically had not directly attacked us in any way.

But he has lots of time to do so...we'll see...
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Neven

  • Administrator
  • ASIF Governor
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
    • Arctic Sea Ice Blog
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #496 on: October 02, 2017, 10:39:33 PM »
Yes....it is pretty insane.  Too bad that it is TRUE.  I'm afraid Donnie will make ANYONE and EVERYONE look palatable by comparison.  Even Bush.

Yes, before we know it, even Stalin and Hitler will seem like sympathetic guys who really meant well. Come on...  ::)

Luckily, Trump has proven too inept to do worse things than his predecessors (so far). But the next Trump will be worse, and we will get a new Trump if Corporate Democrats manage to keep the Democratic Party in a stranglehold.
Il faut cultiver notre jardin

magnamentis

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1229
    • View Profile
    • Nexpaq Modular ARA iOS Software Mobile Computing Phones Philosophy Ethics Numerology Mikrocirkulation Vaskular Therapie Gesundheit Blut Gesundheit Schmerzen Multipelsklerose Diabetes Immunsystem Fibromyalgie
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #497 on: October 03, 2017, 12:46:52 AM »
And now, with Trump in office, George W Bush actually seems like a swell guy:

Corp. Democrats Disgusting Rehabilitation Of George Bush

! No longer available

Pretty insane...


i never thought that's possible and that GWB can be "topped" in the U.S. of A. how naive of me ;)
http://magnamentis.com
Knowledge, Understanding & Insight Are Among The Best Sources For Personal Freedom & Vitality !

TerryM

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 2018
    • View Profile
Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #498 on: October 03, 2017, 09:38:20 AM »
Yes....it is pretty insane.  Too bad that it is TRUE.  I'm afraid Donnie will make ANYONE and EVERYONE look palatable by comparison.  Even Bush.

Yes, before we know it, even Stalin and Hitler will seem like sympathetic guys who really meant well. Come on...  ::)

Luckily, Trump has proven too inept to do worse things than his predecessors (so far). But the next Trump will be worse, and we will get a new Trump if Corporate Democrats manage to keep the Democratic Party in a stranglehold.


And the next Trump might be of either party.


Terry

sidd

  • ASIF Upper Class
  • Posts: 1500
    • View Profile