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Author Topic: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out  (Read 26538 times)

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #700 on: November 11, 2017, 05:07:52 PM »
Pileus:

That cartoon has it wrong, the "boat" needs Sanders as much or more than Sanders needs the "boat"! (Or at least what Sanders represents).

BudM

Generally when people want to row in the same boat they work in concert with crew to reach the desired destination.  They don't sit in the stern and blast holes in the deck or foul with the rudder, while the captain leads from the bow and deals with salt and spray and all sorts of contrary conditions. 

Democrats recognize and share the framework concerns and objectives regarding dealing with the threats of Trump's presidency and addressing the deep and systemic problems in America.  If Bernie wants to be part of the team, he should join the Democratic Party.  His revolution was rejected by core Democratic constituencies in the 2016 primary, and his efforts to undermine the Clinton campaign helped deliver the presidency to Trump.

Virginia Democrats rejected the Bernie candidate for gov, and the results show that Dems are well positioned heading into 2018, with or without Bernie.  If Bernie thinks there is something missing with the Dem party, he and his Bros should form a new party and sell their ideas to the American public.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #701 on: November 11, 2017, 08:59:11 PM »

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #702 on: November 11, 2017, 11:20:27 PM »
sidd
Two good links & I particularly appreciated the comments at the first link. The Russians don't get a lot of coverage when the county in question serves up a 40 point jump between elections.


Why did this county swing from Obama supporters to anyone but Hillary voters over such a short time? The short answer is they just didn't like or trust Hillary. The longer version is that even though she outspent Trump by over 300%, she couldn't buy the people's support.
Terry

budmantis

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #703 on: November 11, 2017, 11:41:29 PM »
Pileus:

That cartoon has it wrong, the "boat" needs Sanders as much or more than Sanders needs the "boat"! (Or at least what Sanders represents).

BudM


If Bernie thinks there is something missing with the Dem party, he and his Bros should form a new party and sell their ideas to the American public.

If possible, I think both sides need to find a working compromise. A third party to the left of the Democrats will only result in more Republicans being elected. You may disagree but I think Bernie brings a lot to the table. Concessions should be made to get the two sides working together.

BudM

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #704 on: November 12, 2017, 04:38:48 AM »
If possible, I think both sides need to find a working compromise. A third party to the left of the Democrats will only result in more Republicans being elected. You may disagree but I think Bernie brings a lot to the table. Concessions should be made to get the two sides working together.

+1
And I also agree with you that the cartoon has it wrong.
Bernie did not make any demands when he ran as a Democrat.

And although the Democratic party did suppress his candidacy (see the Brazile notes), the Democratic party DID embrace many of his ideas in the 2016 platform.

So even though there seem to be many (even here in this thread) that want to divide the party, there is much evidence that the Democratic party is embracing Bernie's ideas and will be stronger and united going forward.

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #705 on: November 12, 2017, 09:32:40 PM »
If possible, I think both sides need to find a working compromise. A third party to the left of the Democrats will only result in more Republicans being elected. You may disagree but I think Bernie brings a lot to the table. Concessions should be made to get the two sides working together.

+1
And I also agree with you that the cartoon has it wrong.
Bernie did not make any demands when he ran as a Democrat.

And although the Democratic party did suppress his candidacy (see the Brazile notes), the Democratic party DID embrace many of his ideas in the 2016 platform.

So even though there seem to be many (even here in this thread) that want to divide the party, there is much evidence that the Democratic party is embracing Bernie's ideas and will be stronger and united going forward.

Bernie lost primarily because his ideas were rejected in the Democratic primary by Democratic voters.

Any divisiveness is largely being driven by the far left.  It helped undermine the Democratic ticket in 2016.  Bernie has some good ideas, but it's a mistake to assume the United States has a broad appetite and capacity for his policies in real structural terms.  It's a $19 trillion economy and stuff needs to be paid for, and their is a broad swath of the population that wants nothing to do with liberals let alone leftists.

Dems have all the momentum going into 2018.  Their biggest mistake would be to swing too far left at a broader level.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #706 on: November 12, 2017, 11:37:37 PM »
Saturday Night Live on the Democrat's new messaging:

"We haven't felt this confident since the night before Trump won the election."

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/message-from-the-dnc/3618252

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #707 on: November 13, 2017, 12:06:01 AM »
Bernie lost primarily because his ideas were rejected in the Democratic primary by Democratic voters.

Any divisiveness is largely being driven by the far left.  It helped undermine the Democratic ticket in 2016.  Bernie has some good ideas, but it's a mistake to assume the United States has a broad appetite and capacity for his policies in real structural terms.  It's a $19 trillion economy and stuff needs to be paid for, and their is a broad swath of the population that wants nothing to do with liberals let alone leftists.

Dems have all the momentum going into 2018.  Their biggest mistake would be to swing too far left at a broader level.

A lot of stuff needs to be paid for, but most of it ends up in the bottomless pit of concentrated wealth. If the Corporate Democrats want to keep that status quo (endless wars, hugely expensive health care/insurance, backbreaking college debt, addictive foods/drugs/medication), they definitely must not swing too far left.

The only question is: Are people going to fall for it again? Or will it be different this time?
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #708 on: November 13, 2017, 01:01:35 AM »
I think those Democrats calling for Sanders to start a third party discount how much more difficult it will be for the Democrats to break Republican control if the Sanders vote splits off.

It may be that the Democratic party is beyond reform but I am not yet convinced. We shall see.

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #709 on: November 13, 2017, 03:08:33 AM »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #710 on: November 13, 2017, 06:06:28 AM »
I'm beginning to like Egberto.

"Progressives must realize that winning is more effective than talking."

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/11/12/1714162/-Hey-progressives-let-s-prove-ourselves-by-winning-the-primaries-and-then-the-whole-thing

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #711 on: November 13, 2017, 07:08:55 AM »
America's finest news source on DNC ethics reform:

" ...  the Clinton Institute For Campaign Ethics Reform ... "

https://politics.theonion.com/dnc-unveils-clinton-institute-for-campaign-ethics-refor-1820092241

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #712 on: November 13, 2017, 07:44:14 AM »
Neven writes: "The only question is: Are people going to fall for it again? Or will it be different this time?"

I think that in the longer run, say a decade or two, people in the USA will reject oligarchy and endless war, and I do not think the oligarchs are powerful enuf to stem that tide. Whether the Democratic party or the Republican party survive in their present form is open to question.

For the Democratic party, I think change will have to come at state level. At national level, DNC is fatally entwined with oligarchs, and severing that relationship will take a while. But state level party is angry and also easier to change.

As always, I could be wrong.

sidd



sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #713 on: November 14, 2017, 09:20:59 AM »
Speaking of oligarchs and the Democratic Party lets look at just one defense contractor making money off killing foreigners in faraway lands and lets just look at the maximum donation (10K US$) to democrats in 2016 elections. Didnt even bother with the smaller amounts, so sue me.

(Yes I know, republicans are on the suck too. But this thread is about reforming the democrats.)

Data from

http://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/pacgot.php?cycle=2016&cmte=C00303024

These are the democrats who took 10K from one war contactor in 2016. I regret to say that Tulsi Gabbard is one. Pelosi, Schiff, of course. Difi only got 2K, so she didn't make the cut here,  but this is just Lockheed. Look all of them up on opensecrets, it's a laff.

Until we can beat Lockheed and the rest with crowdfunding and crowdvoting, we are screwed.

sidd

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
House of Congress:

Beyer, Don (D-VA)   $10,000
Bishop, Sanford (D-GA)   $10,000
Clyburn, James E (D-SC)   $10,000
Connolly, Gerry (D-VA)   $10,000
Courtney, Joe (D-CT)   $10,000
Crowley, Joseph (D-NY)   $10,000
Cummings, Elijah E (D-MD)   $10,000
Delaney, John K (D-MD)   $10,000
DeLauro, Rosa L (D-CT)   $10,000
Engel, Eliot L (D-NY)   $10,000
Gabbard, Tulsi (D-HI)   $10,000
Honda, Mike (D-CA)   $10,000
Hoyer, Steny H (D-MD)   $10,000
Johnson, Eddie Bernice (D-TX)   $10,000
Johnson, Hank (D-GA)   $10,000
Kaptur, Marcy (D-OH)   $10,000
Keating, Bill (D-MA)   $10,000
Kilmer, Derek (D-WA)   $10,000
Langevin, Jim (D-RI)   $10,000
Larsen, Rick (D-WA)   $10,000
Larson, John B (D-CT)   $10,000
Lowey, Nita M (D-NY)   $10,000
Meeks, Gregory W (D-NY)   $10,000
Neal, Richard E (D-MA)   $10,000
Norcross, Don (D-NJ)   $10,000
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA)   $10,000
Ruppersberger, Dutch (D-MD)   $10,000
Schiff, Adam (D-CA)   $10,000
Sewell, Terri A (D-AL)   $10,000
Slaughter, Louise M (D-NY)   $10,000
Smith, Adam (D-WA)   $10,000
Thompson, Bennie G (D-MS)   $10,000
Thompson, Mike (D-CA)   $10,000
Veasey, Marc (D-TX)   $10,000
Visclosky, Pete (D-IN)   $10,000
Schatz, Brian (D-HI)   $10,000
Van Hollen, Chris (D-MD)   $10,000
Beyer, Don (D-VA)   $10,000
Bishop, Sanford (D-GA)   $10,000
Clyburn, James E (D-SC)   $10,000
Connolly, Gerry (D-VA)   $10,000
Courtney, Joe (D-CT)   $10,000
Crowley, Joseph (D-NY)   $10,000
Cummings, Elijah E (D-MD)   $10,000
Delaney, John K (D-MD)   $10,000
DeLauro, Rosa L (D-CT)   $10,000
Engel, Eliot L (D-NY)   $10,000
Gabbard, Tulsi (D-HI)   $10,000
Honda, Mike (D-CA)   $10,000
Hoyer, Steny H (D-MD)   $10,000
Johnson, Eddie Bernice (D-TX)   $10,000
Johnson, Hank (D-GA)   $10,000
Kaptur, Marcy (D-OH)   $10,000
Keating, Bill (D-MA)   $10,000
Kilmer, Derek (D-WA)   $10,000
Langevin, Jim (D-RI)   $10,000
Larsen, Rick (D-WA)   $10,000
Larson, John B (D-CT)   $10,000
Lowey, Nita M (D-NY)   $10,000
Meeks, Gregory W (D-NY)   $10,000
Neal, Richard E (D-MA)   $10,000
Norcross, Don (D-NJ)   $10,000
Pelosi, Nancy (D-CA)   $10,000
Ruppersberger, Dutch (D-MD)   $10,000
Schiff, Adam (D-CA)   $10,000
Sewell, Terri A (D-AL)   $10,000
Slaughter, Louise M (D-NY)   $10,000
Smith, Adam (D-WA)   $10,000
Thompson, Bennie G (D-MS)   $10,000
Thompson, Mike (D-CA)   $10,000
Veasey, Marc (D-TX)   $10,000
Visclosky, Pete (D-IN)   $10,000

Senate:

Schatz, Brian (D-HI)   $10,000
Van Hollen, Chris (D-MD)   $10,000
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #714 on: November 14, 2017, 04:01:14 PM »
Run Joe, Run ;D

Title: "Joe Biden leaves 2020 question open as book tour begins"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-leaves-2020-question-open-as-book-tour-begins/ar-BBESJb8?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Joe has mass appeal and the personality to go along with it, but I would sincerely hope Dems can produce a better option by 2020.  Both parties suffer from an excess of 70+ national office holders and aspirants.  Dems need someone with the wisdom and experience that comes with age, but also the energy and insights needed to address current and future issues as we move into the 2020s.  Someone who can fire up and turn out the core Dem constituencies, and harness and leverage progressive constituencies while not swinging so far left that it turns off moderates and energizes the right, ensuring continued Republican control.

AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #715 on: November 14, 2017, 05:45:51 PM »
Run Joe, Run ;D

Title: "Joe Biden leaves 2020 question open as book tour begins"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-leaves-2020-question-open-as-book-tour-begins/ar-BBESJb8?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Joe has mass appeal and the personality to go along with it, but I would sincerely hope Dems can produce a better option by 2020.  Both parties suffer from an excess of 70+ national office holders and aspirants.  Dems need someone with the wisdom and experience that comes with age, but also the energy and insights needed to address current and future issues as we move into the 2020s.  Someone who can fire up and turn out the core Dem constituencies, and harness and leverage progressive constituencies while not swinging so far left that it turns off moderates and energizes the right, ensuring continued Republican control.

Good points.  I will stop promoting Biden until we see who the other candidate are.  The main reason that I have posted about Biden is because I am very tired of reading posts about Hillary (who in my opinion will not run again in 2020).
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #716 on: November 14, 2017, 10:05:02 PM »
This is not good. DC is still owned by bankers. Dmocrats teaming with republicans to roll back bank regulation is no way to win in 2018.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/14/bank-deregulation-bipartisan-senate-equifax/

sidd

pileus

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #717 on: November 14, 2017, 10:51:35 PM »
Run Joe, Run ;D

Title: "Joe Biden leaves 2020 question open as book tour begins"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/joe-biden-leaves-2020-question-open-as-book-tour-begins/ar-BBESJb8?OCID=ansmsnnews11

Joe has mass appeal and the personality to go along with it, but I would sincerely hope Dems can produce a better option by 2020.  Both parties suffer from an excess of 70+ national office holders and aspirants.  Dems need someone with the wisdom and experience that comes with age, but also the energy and insights needed to address current and future issues as we move into the 2020s.  Someone who can fire up and turn out the core Dem constituencies, and harness and leverage progressive constituencies while not swinging so far left that it turns off moderates and energizes the right, ensuring continued Republican control.

Good points.  I will stop promoting Biden until we see who the other candidate are.  The main reason that I have posted about Biden is because I am very tired of reading posts about Hillary (who in my opinion will not run again in 2020).

You should continue to promote him if you feel strongly about him, he’s a good man and would be a solid candidate.  Agree on HRC, although if Joe runs Hillary would likely jump in too.  She would be the younger candidate whilst being in her early 70s.  Would love to see some new blood in the mix, nobody from the 2016 primary ideally.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #718 on: November 14, 2017, 11:16:25 PM »
This is not good. DC is still owned by bankers. Dmocrats teaming with republicans to roll back bank regulation is no way to win in 2018.

https://theintercept.com/2017/11/14/bank-deregulation-bipartisan-senate-equifax/

sidd

As long as they don't swing too far to the left, all is wonderful, sidd.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #719 on: November 15, 2017, 02:22:21 AM »
Biden as presidential candidate in 2020 would be a huge error for the Democratic party. Too many remember him as the senator from MBNA who was a chief architect of making student (and other) loans undischargeable in bankruptcy. His victims have not forgotten.

I go thru his hometown of Scranton now and then. I was there last year before the election, visited with a family whose kids have moved back home because of their student loan debt servitude. Their father was a union member, voted straight democratic ticket all his life until last year. Biden was on TV, he turned it off. His comment was, "I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire." Those sentiments are widely shared.

His children turned out no better. Beau (the one who died of cancer) was DA in Baltimore, did nothing while cops were waging war on the black population. Another son, Hunter is neck deep with Ukrainian oligarchs.

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #720 on: November 15, 2017, 03:38:02 AM »
Biden as presidential candidate in 2020 would be a huge error for the Democratic party. Too many remember him as the senator from MBNA who was a chief architect of making student (and other) loans undischargeable in bankruptcy. His victims have not forgotten.

I go thru his hometown of Scranton now and then. I was there last year before the election, visited with a family whose kids have moved back home because of their student loan debt servitude. Their father was a union member, voted straight democratic ticket all his life until last year. Biden was on TV, he turned it off. His comment was, "I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire." Those sentiments are widely shared.

His children turned out no better. Beau (the one who died of cancer) was DA in Baltimore, did nothing while cops were waging war on the black population. Another son, Hunter is neck deep with Ukrainian oligarchs.

sidd


I think Hunter's antics would be enough to kill off any hope of daddy's candidacy, although they might fill the DNC's coffers. :(
Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #721 on: November 16, 2017, 06:51:20 AM »
Mark Warner. Greg Meeks. Gwen Moore. These Democrats collaborate with Republicans to make it legal for payday loansharks to charge 300%.

"wipes away the strongest available tool against predatory lending practices” and will “open the floodgates to a wide range of predatory actors to make loans at 300% annual interest or higher.”

"In 2013, the Pew Charitable Trusts found that a typical payday loan was about $375, with a $55 fee. Since the life of the loan is so short, in just two weeks this “fee” works out to an annual interest rate of over 380 percent. In practice, though, it’s usually much worse than that, since, according to Pew, a typical customer ends up repeatedly rolling over a payday loan, ultimately handing over about $520 in fees to pay off an initial $375 advance."

These guys are cool with ripping of the precariat. They need opposition at home on the ground. Warner won in 2016 Senate, so need cut off his money first, primary him in 2022. The other two are House, so they are coming up in 2018. Anyone primarying them ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/payday-lenders-democrats_us_5a0a211ee4b0bc648a0d5325

sidd

budmantis

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #722 on: November 17, 2017, 06:02:42 AM »
Interesting article about Judge Moore's democratic opponent in Alabama, who has opened up a six point lead on the beleaguered republican candidate:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/politics/poll-alabama-senate-roy-moore-doug-jones/index.html

I know nothing about democrat Doug Jones, but whoever he is, he seems to be a better choice than Moore, even if he is a "corporate democrat".

BudM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #723 on: November 17, 2017, 06:18:11 AM »
Mark Warner. Greg Meeks. Gwen Moore. These Democrats collaborate with Republicans to make it legal for payday loansharks to charge 300%.

sidd

Back around 2010 or 2011, when I was still living in New Hampshire, "Cash America" a payday loan service, tried to establish a presence there. They ended leaving the State due to regulatory constraints.

I was a loan officer at two different banks and a consumer credit advocate for a non-profit company afterwards. Although I was happy to see these payday lenders leave NH, the problem of people looking for short term solutions has not left or abated in any way.

BudM

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #724 on: Today at 06:00:53 AM »
Menendez skates, coz bribery of senators is legal. Just two pals doing each other favors, but not connected to any official biz.

" “hosting an event, meeting with other officials, or speaking with interested parties” are not, in and of themselves, enough to constitute such an act. "

https://thinkprogress.org/the-scotus-decision-that-legalized-many-forms-of-bribery-and-helped-save-sen-menendez-from-prison-c5ea12f4b80a/


Coming up for election in 2018. Primary challengers, anyone ?

sidd