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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #750 on: December 23, 2017, 10:13:30 PM »
Jackson Lears in the London Review of Books discusses Russiagate and the parlous condition of the Democratic Party. For the purposes of this thread, the second interests me more, and I ask that discussion of Russiagate be confined to the appropriate thread.

"The most immediate consequence is that, by finding foreign demons who can be blamed for Trump’s ascendancy, the Democratic leadership have shifted the blame for their defeat away from their own policies without questioning any of their core assumptions."

"For the DNC, the great value of the Russian hack story is that it focuses attention away from what was actually in their emails. The documents revealed a deeply corrupt organisation, whose pose of impartiality was a sham."

"The Democratic Party has now developed a new outlook on the world, a more ambitious partnership between liberal humanitarian interventionists and neoconservative militarists than existed under the cautious Obama. This may be the most disastrous consequence for the Democratic Party of the new anti-Russian orthodoxy: the loss of the opportunity to formulate a more humane and coherent foreign policy. "

"It is not the Democratic Party that is leading the search for alternatives ... It is local populations that are threatened by oil spills and police beatings, and that is where humane populism survives. A multitude of insurgent groups have begun to use the outrage against Trump as a lever to move the party in egalitarian directions: Justice Democrats, Black Lives Matter, Democratic Socialists of America, as well as a host of local and regional organisations. They recognise that there are far more urgent – and genuine – reasons to oppose Trump than vague allegations of collusion with Russia. They are posing an overdue challenge to the long con of neoliberalism, and the technocratic arrogance that led to Clinton’s defeat in Rust Belt states. Recognising that the current leadership will not bring about significant change, they are seeking funding from outside the DNC. This is the real resistance, as opposed to ‘#theresistance’."

"Jess King – a Mennonite woman, Bard College MBA and founder of a local non-profit who is running for Congress as a Justice Democrat in Lancaster, Pennsylvania – put it this way: ‘We see a changing political landscape right now that isn’t measured by traditional left to right politics anymore, but bottom to top."

Amazing. The Amish/Mennonites/... dont usually get into politics. Read the whole thing:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n01/jackson-lears/what-we-dont-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-russian-hacking

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #751 on: December 24, 2017, 02:01:01 AM »
Jackson Lears in the London Review of Books discusses Russiagate and the parlous condition of the Democratic Party. For the purposes of this thread, the second interests me more, and I ask that discussion of Russiagate be confined to the appropriate thread.

"The most immediate consequence is that, by finding foreign demons who can be blamed for Trump’s ascendancy, the Democratic leadership have shifted the blame for their defeat away from their own policies without questioning any of their core assumptions."

"For the DNC, the great value of the Russian hack story is that it focuses attention away from what was actually in their emails. The documents revealed a deeply corrupt organisation, whose pose of impartiality was a sham."

"The Democratic Party has now developed a new outlook on the world, a more ambitious partnership between liberal humanitarian interventionists and neoconservative militarists than existed under the cautious Obama. This may be the most disastrous consequence for the Democratic Party of the new anti-Russian orthodoxy: the loss of the opportunity to formulate a more humane and coherent foreign policy. "

"It is not the Democratic Party that is leading the search for alternatives ... It is local populations that are threatened by oil spills and police beatings, and that is where humane populism survives. A multitude of insurgent groups have begun to use the outrage against Trump as a lever to move the party in egalitarian directions: Justice Democrats, Black Lives Matter, Democratic Socialists of America, as well as a host of local and regional organisations. They recognise that there are far more urgent – and genuine – reasons to oppose Trump than vague allegations of collusion with Russia. They are posing an overdue challenge to the long con of neoliberalism, and the technocratic arrogance that led to Clinton’s defeat in Rust Belt states. Recognising that the current leadership will not bring about significant change, they are seeking funding from outside the DNC. This is the real resistance, as opposed to ‘#theresistance’."

"Jess King – a Mennonite woman, Bard College MBA and founder of a local non-profit who is running for Congress as a Justice Democrat in Lancaster, Pennsylvania – put it this way: ‘We see a changing political landscape right now that isn’t measured by traditional left to right politics anymore, but bottom to top."

Amazing. The Amish/Mennonites/... dont usually get into politics. Read the whole thing:

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n01/jackson-lears/what-we-dont-talk-about-when-we-talk-about-russian-hacking

sidd


A must read for anyone wondering where the Democratic Party went - and why.
Terry

sidd

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #753 on: December 24, 2017, 09:01:34 AM »
Feinstein weakens:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/20/dianne-feinstein-kevin-de-leon-california-senate-poll/

sidd
The 42% negatives coupled with the 45% positives indicate very high name recognition, but it's also dangerously close to Trump and Hillary's net negatives.
Feinstein was the lady back in the day, but those days were long ago.
Nominating octogenarians is probably not going to excite young voters, but they never show up anyway, right?
Terry
« Last Edit: December 31, 2017, 05:25:39 PM by TerryM »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #754 on: December 30, 2017, 12:51:59 AM »
Justice Democrats running Alison Hartson against Feinstein:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/california-senate-alison-hartson-justice-democrats-young-turks/index.html

She wants an article 5 convention to overturn Citizen's United. That's a dangerous game since republicans are only a few state legislatures away from calling one of their own.

sidd

sidd

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #756 on: January 05, 2018, 11:58:27 PM »
Nader interviewed by Hedges:

--

"The party will always be weak, flabby, indentured and dialing for the same commercial dollars as long as the four-time losers continue to run the party."

Nader said the ruling elites have “lost the fear of the people.”

Nader worries that as long as “10 to 15 percent of the American people are well-off” the elites will have enough support to continue the assault.

Resistance, Nader said, must be local.

The greed of the corporate state leaves us unprepared for the ravages of climate change, he warned.

Don’t wait for the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is an instrument. On the first round you’ve got to use it and control it. On the third round, when you’re mobilized, you can throw it aside.

--

Read the whole thing:

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-visionless-society/

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #757 on: January 09, 2018, 07:08:13 AM »
Kucinich running for ohio governor, dunno if he will beat Cordray

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/367962-dennis-kucinich-enters-crowded-race-for-ohio-governor

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #758 on: January 12, 2018, 09:20:15 AM »
Here, for future reference is a list of Democratic Congressional reps who want fewer limits on government spies:

Sewell AL
O'Halleran  AZ
Sinema  AZ
Brownley CA
Swalwell CA
Thompson CA
Aguilar  CA
Bera  CA
Costa  CA
Panetta  CA
Pelosi  CA
Peters  CA
Ruiz  CA
Schiff  CA
Torres  CA
Esty CT
Himes  CT
Castor FL
Frankel FL
Lawson FL
Murphy FL
Demings  FL
Bishop GA
Loebsack  IA
Bustos  IL
Lipinski  IL
Quigley  IL
Schneider  IL
Visclosky  IN
Brown MD
Delaney  MD
Hoyer  MD
Ruppersberger  MD
Peterson  MN
Kuster NH
Gottheimer  NJ
Norcross  NJ
Sires  NJ
Rosen  NV
Higgins NY
Rice NY
Lowey  NY
Suozzi  NY
Kaptur  OH
Cartwright  PA
Langevin  RI
Blunt Rochester
Wasserman Schultz
Maloney, Sean
Cooper  TN
Castro TX
Cuellar  TX
McEachin  VA
Heck  WA
Kilmer  WA

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2018/roll014.xml

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #759 on: January 13, 2018, 12:41:23 AM »
Jimmy Dore has a video on it (haven't watched it yet):



And here's another one on another Pelosi (partying with the Trumps):

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E. Smith

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #760 on: January 14, 2018, 11:49:17 PM »
I've watched that first JD video. Can someone point me to arguments made by any of the fine elected Democrat representative to kill this amendment? Because Dore has a pretty forceful and convincing rant about how insane that is (and just for corporate profit). Does anyone have more context?

But they didn't vote for the tax bill which would've been passed anyway! So how can they be working for corporations instead of the American people?!  :o ::)
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sidd

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #762 on: January 16, 2018, 09:19:08 PM »
If everyone here would unite behind this lady and what she's saying - instead of sitting and waiting for the next lesser evil to be stuffed down their throat - there might be some hope for a better future:



PS Lately, Jimmy Dore has had quite a few progressive politicians on that were really eloquent, looked good and had convincing visions (like and ). Maybe they aren't as great as they seem, but if they are, I'm sure they could use your support. I'm also sure they deserve it more than any candidates that are backed by the Democratic Party establishment.

PPS I'm not so sure about Chelsea Manning. Somehow I didn't like the ad all that much, even though it should have pushed my buttons. On the other hand, she is a true American hero. And the fact that disgusting Corporate Democrats like Neera Tanden are her, also speaks in her favour.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 09:01:49 PM by Neven »
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sidd

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AbruptSLR

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #764 on: January 17, 2018, 10:41:12 PM »
The path for future Democratic Party victory leads through poor rural areas and associated tailored PACs

Title: "This could be the future of the Democratic Party"

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/vbyxjx/this-could-be-the-future-of-the-democratic-party

Extract: "A lot of Democrats don't like to talk to the kinds of rural, white, poor voters who used to vote Democrat but in 2016 voted for President Trump in huge numbers. Those voters don't want to help themselves, those Democrats say, so why bother?

Krystal Ball, a former MSNBC host, has decided to bother. She started a PAC specifically designed to help Democrats win in places where Democrats haven't won in a long time. It's not always an easy task."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #765 on: January 18, 2018, 08:59:56 PM »
And here is the list of emocratic senator voting to kill filibuster for 702 amendment:

Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Cortez Masto (D-NV)
Donnelly (D-IN)
Duckworth (D-IL)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Hassan (D-NH)
Heitkamp (D-ND)
Jones (D-AL)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Manchin (D-WV)
McCaskill (D-MO)
Nelson (D-FL)
Peters (D-MI)
Reed (D-RI)
Shaheen (D-NH)
Warner (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)

Feinstein, Manchin there as expected.

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #766 on: January 18, 2018, 09:04:22 PM »
There are two videos on the Real News about the amendment on warrantless surveillance that are worth watching. Why on Earth are so many Democrats voting against the amendment? I just don't get it. If anyone from the US could explain their arguments and motivation, I'd be grateful.



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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #767 on: January 19, 2018, 06:30:41 AM »
" If anyone from the US could explain their arguments and motivation, I'd be grateful."

Money.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1068.msg125889.html#msg125889

sidd

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #768 on: January 19, 2018, 11:38:22 AM »
Money.

Okay, but what are they saying?

BTW, I think that #TheAssistance is kind of funny.  ;) ;D

And sad at the same time, because it emphasizes the necessity of (the threat of) tar and feathers. But people are simply too hypnotized by lesser-evil-incrementalism and gripped by fear of the GOP.

Sigh....
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #769 on: January 20, 2018, 11:30:40 PM »
Why the Resistance is actually a mick resistance (when not actually a downright assistance):

The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #770 on: January 23, 2018, 09:01:28 PM »

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #771 on: January 24, 2018, 11:50:17 PM »
A good article by Mr. JimD on the 2016 election and what the Democratic Party might learn is at

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1130.msg139840.html#msg139840

sidd

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #772 on: January 24, 2018, 11:51:10 PM »
Winning from the ground up: Jim Hightower writes about grass roots progressive victories :

https://hightowerlowdown.org/article/ordinary-winning/

sidd

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #773 on: January 25, 2018, 10:35:45 PM »
A good article by Mr. JimD on the 2016 election and what the Democratic Party might learn is at

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1130.msg139840.html#msg139840

sidd


As long as the Democrats are screaming that Putin stole their election they don't need to change, or learn, anything.
My fear is that they will ignore the lessons that 2016 should have taught them. That they'll accept whatever victory they have in 2018 as proof that they were right. Then they'll blame their loss in 2020 on some other outside force.


"A Must Read" must be read!
Terry

Jim Pettit

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #774 on: January 26, 2018, 12:26:23 AM »
As long as the Democrats are screaming that Putin stole their election they don't need to change, or learn, anything.

My fear is that they will ignore the lessons that 2016 should have taught them. That they'll accept whatever victory they have in 2018 as proof that they were right. Then they'll blame their loss in 2020 on some other outside force.

My acquaintances, coworkers, friends, and family members are predominantly Republican and heavily supportive of Trump, and they, too, have come to the silly (and, frankly, inane) conclusion that Democrats are spending roughly 100% of their time "screaming that Putin stole their election".

Good. I hope they keep right on thinking that.

That means the many hundreds of new, progressive, grassroots-level candidates that are being groomed to run for office will sneak in unnoticed due to GOP ignorance. A blue wave is coming, a full-fledged political tsunami, and if Trump and his apologists want to lull themselves into complacency by telling themselves that Dems are over-occupied by Trump's criminal conspiracy, let them.

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #775 on: January 26, 2018, 12:56:13 AM »
As long as the Democrats are screaming that Putin stole their election they don't need to change, or learn, anything.

My fear is that they will ignore the lessons that 2016 should have taught them. That they'll accept whatever victory they have in 2018 as proof that they were right. Then they'll blame their loss in 2020 on some other outside force.

My acquaintances, coworkers, friends, and family members are predominantly Republican and heavily supportive of Trump, and they, too, have come to the silly (and, frankly, inane) conclusion that Democrats are spending roughly 100% of their time "screaming that Putin stole their election".

Good. I hope they keep right on thinking that.

That means the many hundreds of new, progressive, grassroots-level candidates that are being groomed to run for office will sneak in unnoticed due to GOP ignorance. A blue wave is coming, a full-fledged political tsunami, and if Trump and his apologists want to lull themselves into complacency by telling themselves that Dems are over-occupied by Trump's criminal conspiracy, let them.


Didn't CNN recently say that they had been spouting anti Putin propaganda, but no one was listening? Certainly sounds as though you may be on to something, I hope.
Terry

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #776 on: January 31, 2018, 08:48:28 PM »
Perry lays out the inherent corruption in the electoral process. Great argument for crowdfunding, though he did not explicitly make that point.

"All that I’ve just shared with you, each and every moment, taken together, are examples of how we train our leaders in this country. This should horrify all of us. It should spur us to action to rid our politics of this money-drenched culture. When we let wealth and connections drive who gets elected in the country, we get the dismal politics we now awake to every morning."

https://theintercept.com/2018/01/31/democratic-party-political-fundraising-dccc/

sidd

ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #777 on: February 03, 2018, 04:12:13 PM »
"I,m good, nothing to change here. I just changed the Universe."



Uf, no solution that way.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #778 on: February 04, 2018, 11:48:10 PM »
Not sure where to put this Huffington Post link, but maybe they are 'all' corporate stooges.  Bernie Not-a-Democrat is certainly concerned.


Democrats Lack A Bold National Climate Change Plan In The Trump Era, And It Shows
Quote
The party’s rebuttal this week to the president’s State of the Union address ignored what should be a progressive core issue for the party.
...
Democrats’ kids-gloves approach to climate change is baffling in 2018. Last year was the second-hottest on record. Hurricanes and wildfires devastated densely populated coastal areas and huge swaths of the West, causing a record $306 billion in damages. And a historically unpopular president spearheaded an all-out assault on climate science, instigating witch hunts and censorship in agency ranks, showering polluters with taxpayer money and vowing to withdraw from a global emissions deal signed by every other nation on Earth ...
...
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #779 on: February 05, 2018, 11:45:19 AM »
Just like I don't think that none of the Democrats are corporate stooges (and we mustn't even discuss the possibility because Trump/Putin), I don't think that they're all serving donor interests either. It's not that black and white. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of Democratic politicians would actually prefer to serve the interests of the American people more, but feel their hands are tied because of this system. Hence the importance of giving out that signal that this is no longer accepted.

It is clear to me, however, that the Democratic Party leadership is utterly corrupted (with their fake resistance and being weak on purpose). And that's one of the main reasons Trump is president.
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wili

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #780 on: February 05, 2018, 12:56:19 PM »
Well put.

"their hands are tied because of this system"

I'm guessing there are many on both sides who feel this way. And I do think that at least some Trump supporters thought he was the man who could change that system, or blow it up.

He hasn't been that kind of reformer so far.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #781 on: February 08, 2018, 12:44:18 PM »
In confrontation with the amnesia force ;)

Why targeting corporate Democrats is part of the fight against Trump, Mark Engler - November 21, 2016

Quote
In the short run, this will require pressuring fickle and opportunist politicians to stubbornly oppose and filibuster White House extremism, even at the risk of being labeled obstructionist by critics. In the longer term, it will involve creating an effective opposition in the Democratic Party to ensure that Trump’s next opponent will not be another establishment candidate, deeply compromised by ties to corporate America. Rather, this opponent must be someone who can genuinely speak to the disenfranchisement and frustration that many in this country feel.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #783 on: February 08, 2018, 11:36:57 PM »
Depressing, if true. Somehow you'd expect enough Californians to be on the ball and vote out this corporate dinosaur.  ???
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #784 on: February 08, 2018, 11:37:44 PM »
Big money winning again:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/08/california-feinstein-senate-397635

sidd
Big money, Big Pharma, Big Healthcare, Big MIC.
But don't expect to pull many swing voters when you can't campaign on issues that a majority of the voters actually want.


Another lost election cycle.
Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #785 on: February 08, 2018, 11:40:04 PM »
Depressing, if true. Somehow you'd expect enough Californians to be on the ball and vote out this corporate dinosaur.  ???


They're going to wait until she gets old.  ::)
Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #786 on: February 09, 2018, 06:52:07 AM »
I understand that some of you have found a nice little echo chamber here pissing on Democrats that you don't like. The latest one being Dianne Feinstein.

So I'm sure my comment won't gain me any points with the audience on this thread.
But I am now living in California for more than 25 years, and I can say I am proud of Sen. Feinstein and the values she stands for. She has done an incredible job over her entire time in office, and I deeply respect her for her work for the people of California and the US in general.

Go piss at her all you want. The people of California choose to disagree with you.

[edit] I'd be happy to debate any vote she made that you disagree with. Maybe just to get a different perspective.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 06:59:58 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #787 on: February 09, 2018, 07:11:21 AM »
OT for this thread :

There is a senator (Rand Paul) who is now single-handedly shutting down the US government over objections to the deficit. This after he voted in favor of the Trump tax cuts for the rich in December that add 1.5 trillion dollars to the deficit.

The hypocrisy of the Republicans is mind boggling.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #788 on: February 09, 2018, 08:45:44 AM »
Re: DiFi

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1937.msg132656/topicseen.html#msg132656

in this thread. I know Rob Dekker has  seen the post, since he responded to it ...

Re: Republican evil

Start a thread. I'm sure lotsa people will contribute. This thread is about corporate Democrats, as I have pointed out before.

sidd

« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 08:52:27 AM by sidd »

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #789 on: February 09, 2018, 11:51:30 AM »
What 'values' does Feinstein stand for? And how does she fight for these values? What I've seen of her so far, is that she's a warmonger who'll do whatever she can to fight things like single payer, free college, ending the wars, etc. In other words, Republican Lite because donors.

But maybe she does walk the walk as well. I'm not convinced so far.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #790 on: February 09, 2018, 03:28:22 PM »
What 'values' does Feinstein stand for? And how does she fight for these values? What I've seen of her so far, is that she's a warmonger who'll do whatever she can to fight things like single payer, free college, ending the wars, etc. In other words, Republican Lite because donors.

But maybe she does walk the walk as well. I'm not convinced so far.

It's pretty simple, legislators have one main function, to legislate.  What they might say in front of a microphone is irrelevant.  The question is, really, what bills did they advance and vote yes, what bills did they vote against.

It's pretty clear that DiFi is a pretty decent progressive.  Yes, she is something of a hawk on defense/security/crime.  But if she's such a corporate whore, why does the American Chamber of Commerce give her such a low score?  She's quite strong on environmental votes, which is what most here would emphasize, I'd think:

    On the issues:   Dianne Feinstein
http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Dianne_Feinstein.htm

I'd vote for her, but write her letters about her specific hawkish bias.

Rob Dekker

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #791 on: February 10, 2018, 05:16:46 AM »
What 'values' does Feinstein stand for? And how does she fight for these values?

I could talk a lot about this. But here is a reasonable summary :

New Democrat: "Third Way" instead of left-right debate.

Feinstein adopted Third Way principles of the Democratic Leadership Council:

America and the world have changed dramatically in the closing decades of the 20th century. The industrial order of the 20th century is rapidly yielding to the networked “New Economy” of the 21st century. Our political and governing systems, however, have lagged behind the rest of society in adapting to these seismic shifts. They remain stuck in the left-right debates and the top-down bureaucracies of the industrial past.

The Democratic Leadership Council, and its affiliated think tank the Progressive Policy Institute, have been catalysts for modernizing politics and government. The core principles and ideas of this “Third Way” movement [began with] Bill Clinton’s Presidential campaign in 1992, Tony Blair’s Labour Party in Britain in 1997, and Gerhard Shroeder’s Social Democrats in Germany in 1998.
The Third Way philosophy seeks to adapt enduring progressive values to the new challenges of he information age. It rests on three cornerstones:

1) the idea that government should promote equal opportunity for all while granting special privilege for none;
2) an ethic of mutual responsibility that equally rejects the politics of entitlement and the politics of social abandonment;
and,
3) a new approach to governing that empowers citizens to act for themselves.

The Third Way approach to economic opportunity and security stresses technological innovation, competitive enterprise, and education rather than top- down redistribution or laissez faire. On questions of values, it embraces “tolerant traditionalism,” honoring traditional moral and family values while resisting attempts to impose them on others. It favors an enabling rather than a bureaucratic government, expanding choices for citizens, using market means to achieve public ends and encouraging civic and community institutions to play a larger role in public life. The Third Way works to build inclusive, multiethnic societies based on common allegiance to democratic values.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Dianne_Feinstein_Principles_+_Values.htm
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wili

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #792 on: February 10, 2018, 05:28:07 AM »
Soooo, you're saying Feinstein was a central part of turning the Dems into Repug-light??

Thanks for clarifying your position.  :o
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #794 on: February 10, 2018, 08:26:26 AM »
Bill Black has some criticism:

Bill Black's criticism of the Third Way is here (from your link) :

Quote
Third Way, lobbyists for and from Wall Street who are leading the effort to enrich Wall Street by privatizing Social Security, was created by Wall Street to fool some of the people all of the time.

This statement however is incompatible with the Third Way.
For example, Dianne Feinstein opposed privatization of social security :

Quote
Opponents recommend voting NO because:
This amendment has a fatal flaw. It leaves the door open for private Social Security accounts by providing participants with the option of "pre-funding of at least some portion of future benefits."
This body has already closed the door on the President's ill-conceived plan for private Social Security accounts. The opposition to privatization is well-known:
- Privatizing Social Security does nothing to extend the solvency of the program.
- Transition costs would put our Nation in greater debt by as much as $4.9 trillion.
- Creating private accounts would mean benefit cuts for retirees, by as much as 40%.
- Half of all American workers today have no pension plan from their employers. It is critical that we protect this safety net.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Dianne_Feinstein_Social_Security.htm

So Mr. Bill Black is talking BS on this issue.
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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #795 on: February 11, 2018, 11:41:09 PM »
The Guardian had an article slamming the "Third Way" just 4 hours ago.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/11/neo-fascism-and-the-troubling-third-way

"In the US, the Democrats did the same, with Clinton’s dreadful Welfare Reform Act of 1996, which with other third-way measures fuelled the growth of support for the evil that is Trump."

They seem to believe that the evils of the Third Way are what lead to Trump's election.

Thanks Dianne. >:(
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #796 on: February 12, 2018, 12:37:32 AM »
The linked article discusses weaknesses of populist movements (their simplistic 'solutions' do not help them to ".. navigate a complex reality that requires serious, long-term planning, and compromise") & focuses on lessons learned from the recent failed populist movement in Greece.  Hopefully, mainstream Democrats in the USA can be revitalized by the resist Trump movement to find better answers to complex questions:

Title: "What democracies can learn from Greece's failed populist experiment"

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/05/greece-populism-syriza-trump-imf-eurozone/525369/
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #797 on: February 12, 2018, 02:01:17 AM »
The Guardian had an article slamming the "Third Way" just 4 hours ago.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/11/neo-fascism-and-the-troubling-third-way

"In the US, the Democrats did the same, with Clinton’s dreadful Welfare Reform Act of 1996, which with other third-way measures fuelled the growth of support for the evil that is Trump."

They seem to believe that the evils of the Third Way are what lead to Trump's election.

Thanks Dianne. >:(
Terry

I fail to see how the Welfare Reform Act of 1996 (22 years and three administrations ago) has anything to do with support for Trump.

And by the way, Dianne Feinstein (as well as about half the Democrats) voted against the measure.

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-07-24/news/mn-27401_1_welfare-reforms

But don't let the facts distract from your pissing-on-Democrats effort.
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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #798 on: February 12, 2018, 04:40:22 AM »
Sorry about your short attention span, but it was a quote from your own post:


"New Democrat: "Third Way" instead of left-right debate.
Feinstein adopted Third Way principles of the Democratic Leadership Council"

that first caught my eye.

When you first praise Feinstein for having adopted the Third Wave principals, then run away from the same, it lends perspective to the rest of your argument.

Perhaps rereading your own reply #791 will refresh your memory.



Terry

BTW, I'm a card carrying Liberal. what's your affiliation?

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #799 on: February 12, 2018, 05:32:29 AM »
The Greek tragedy is better explained by Varoufakis than the atlantic. He has a website called

https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/

He was there. He saw how the Greek people were screwed to bail out the German banks. I believe him over the lapdogs of oligarchy at the Atlantic.

For blow by blow on the Greek rape:

https://www.democracynow.org/2016/4/28/yanis_varoufakis_bailouts_of_greece_are

https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/latest-greek-bank-bailout-by-yanis-varoufakis-2015-12

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/17/yanis-varoufakis-bailout-deal-greek-oligarchs-maintain-grip-eu-leaders-greece

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/greece-bailout-was-for-eu-banks-study-confirms-that-rescue-loans-didnt-serve-the-greek-people/

He has a book called the Global Minotaur, which is well worth reading.

sidd