The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out

[johnm33]

Maybe that's also true. Ever since I 'woke up' 12 20 years ago, watching a large amount of documentaries, reading many books and practically the whole Internet  , a certain world view has formed that is dominated by this belief that the source of our collective woes is a system that has given us a consumer culture, filled with propaganda and addictions, and a dogmatic faith in neoclassical economic theory, with the sole goal of increasing concentrated wealth at an exponential rate. When one looks through that lens, one automatically questions things like 'freedom' and 'democracy', fostering a deep distrust of anything that is deemed 'establishment narrative'."
+1 though i have since done the internet thing.

[SteveMDFP]

I fail to see how having him in is more worthwhile than his primary challenger. For anyone that tries to argue "well progressivism results in worse polling numbers", I might as well just point to the 2016 general election and walk away.

What I will concede about WV primary challengers is that they must first and foremost use labor and union rights as the base of their platform, and the current primary challenger does not do this.

I would vastly prefer his primary challenger be the serving WVa Senator.  That would be something to rejoice about.  However, it seems wildly improbable to me that she could win the general election against the R candidate.

I saw on an online betting site yesterday that folks betting their own money are collectively giving her a 5% chance of winning in the primary against Manchin.  If an election with only Democratic voters is so disinclined to support her, it seems like a snoball's chance in he11 that she'd beat the R in the general election.

If the Dems get 50 Senators after the election, that changes almost nothing--the VP is the tie-breaker.  If the Dems get 51, everything changes in important ways.  We can't afford to have *any* Democratic Senate candidate lose a potentially winnable seat.  Ditching Manchin is not a net good.

[sidd]

DCCC takes a side in Texas:

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/22/national-democrats-go-nuclear-publicly-slam-a-dem-candidate-as-corrupt-for-far-less-than-its-own-officials-do/

sidd

[zheega]

After talking about "unity" and sending all candidates contracts mandating that they are not allowed to attack their primary opponents and must hold "unity rallies" after the primary.

Interestingly, PACs and Super-PACs are still allowed to attack anyone they want during the primary, so this DCCC policy insanely helps everyone who has a PAC or Super-PAC.

[Rob Dekker]

Well, that feeling is mutual. To me it looked like you already made up your mind that Feinstein is "corporate", and no matter what I point out you don't change your opinion.

Maybe that's also true. Ever since I 'woke up' 12 years ago, watching a large amount of documentaries, reading many books and practically the whole Internet  , a certain world view has formed that is dominated by this belief that the source of our collective woes is a system that has given us a consumer culture, filled with propaganda and addictions, and a dogmatic faith in neoclassical economic theory, with the sole goal of increasing concentrated wealth at an exponential rate. When one looks through that lens, one automatically questions things like 'freedom' and 'democracy', fostering a deep distrust of anything that is deemed 'establishment narrative'.

Mmm. And I thought we were just talking about Feinstein and Pelosi.
This seems to go a lot deeper.

Regarding "neoclassical economic theory", I still have faith in Keynesian economics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_economics
Specifically the notion that government should save during the good times and spend during the bad times makes sense to me.

Trump is doing the opposite of that (spend during the good times) and that's why I think he is making a HUGE mistake on economics.

But let me know if that is not addressing the issues you see in modern society.

[Tor Bejnar]

I don't much read this thread, but I though this electoral-vote.com article would be of interest:

Democrats' Eyes Are on California This Weekend

The nation's Democrats, on the whole, loathe Donald Trump in a way that they have not loathed any other president in a long time (even Richard Nixon or George W. Bush). This will play a big part in fomenting a Democratic wave later this year, if one does indeed build. However, the Party's biggest obstacle may be itself, because beyond the near-universal Trump disdain, there is much that divides the blue team. Those looking for insight into whether those differences can be overcome or not will be watching closely this weekend, as California Democrats hold their annual convention in San Diego.

An event like this, which is about as inside baseball as it gets, largely attracts two kinds of individuals: party professionals and activists. That means that the Clinton-Sanders divide that has plagued the Democrats for years will be baked into the proceedings. The four keynote speakers: Sens. Kamala Harris (D-CA) and Jeff Merkley (D-OR), along with Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti and billionaire environmentalist Tom Steyer are not likely, as a group, to do much to heal that divide, as two are more in the activist mold (Merkley and Steyer) and two are more in the moderate/institutionalist mold (Harris and Garcetti).

The attendees at the convention will also have plenty of other things to argue about: a gaggle of contested primaries, an ongoing sexual harassment scandal in the state legislature, and whether or not to support single-payer healthcare. Party officials will also try to "manage" some of the upcoming primary battles by helpfully pointing out that if there are six Democrats and two Republicans running for an office, California's jungle primary system could well leave the two Republicans and none of the Democrats standing in the final round. In short, as one insider put it, "the gloves are coming off." What happens this weekend, and what happens in the next several weeks in the Golden State, as things shake out, should afford great insight into the current state of the Democratic Party. (Z)

[Neven]

The Young Turks on the DCCC picking sides in Texas:

[ivica]

Just passing info:

Bill McKibben @billmckibben Feb 16

TX congressional candidate @derrickcrowe has just released a really powerful final pitch, based on climate change. That shows how things are shifting

Derrick Crowe for Congress: Between the Future and the Fire: Climate Change[/url

[SteveMDFP]

The Young Turks on the DCCC picking sides in Texas:

It's s disturbing little scandal, from my modest amount of reading.  I gather TYT also find it disturbing.  Can't really stomach these televised advocacy shows.  Give me written reporting and analysis any day.  Political infotainment is just far too sloppy.

Seems like it's cronyism, rather than a Corporate Democrat issue.  Emily's List is strongly supporting  one of its insiders against an outsider to EL.  Labor has the opposite inclination, it seems.

The head of the DCC, Lujan, would seem to be responsible.  He doesn't seem "Corporate" at all, based on his progressive stances:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Ray_Luján

Seems mostly a sad case of progressives attacking each other, again. 

[Neven]

Seems mostly a sad case of progressives attacking each other, again.

Yes, either that, or the DCCC isn't neutral and goes out of its way to shut out and obstruct people who don't play by their rules (pay their consultants, play nice for the sake of 'unity', don't push for signature liberal causes as universal healthcare, the $15 minimum wage, campaign finance reform, tuition-free higher education, battling climate change, fighting the MIC, or reining in Wall Street etc). One of the two, just like with the DNC.

[Rob Dekker]

Seems mostly a sad case of progressives attacking each other, again.

Yes, either that, or the DCCC isn't neutral and goes out of its way to shut out and obstruct people who don't play by their rules (pay their consultants, play nice for the sake of 'unity', don't push for signature liberal causes as universal healthcare, the $15 minimum wage, campaign finance reform, tuition-free higher education, battling climate change, fighting the MIC, or reining in Wall Street etc). One of the two, just like with the DNC.

Or maybe something in the middle.
After all, many of these issues were already in the 2016 Democratic Party Platform.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/papers_pdf/117717.pdf

Either way, Go Moser !

[sidd]

No endorsement from the CA democratic party for DiFi. In fact, no endorsement for anyone.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/25/california-democrats-deny-dianne-feinstein-their-endorsement-for-senate/

sidd

[aperson]

17 point spread against a long-term incumbent is pretty damning. Feinstein is not near as progressive as her representatives are.

[zheega]

Seems mostly a sad case of progressives attacking each other, again.

Yes, either that, or the DCCC isn't neutral and goes out of its way to shut out and obstruct people who don't play by their rules (pay their consultants, play nice for the sake of 'unity', don't push for signature liberal causes as universal healthcare, the $15 minimum wage, campaign finance reform, tuition-free higher education, battling climate change, fighting the MIC, or reining in Wall Street etc). One of the two, just like with the DNC.

And their talking points are stupid. One of the "reasons" why DCCC is against her is that she only recently moved back to her district. But in 2016 they threw millions of $$$ to Jon Ossoff, who NEVER lived in the district where he was running - not even during the elections.

[sidd]

Neven brought up definitions of neoliberalism. Don Durito at boomantribune has a discussion

http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2018/2/25/18018/0851

and a useful link to

http://folk.uio.no/daget/What%20is%20Neo-Liberalism%2010-11-06.pdf

"Neoliberalism is, as we see it, a loosely demarcated set of political beliefs which most prominently and prototypically include the conviction that the only legitimate purpose of the state is to safeguard individual, especially commercial, liberty, as well as strong private property rights (cf. especially Mises 1962; Nozick 1974; Hayek 1979). This conviction usually issues, in turn, in a belief that the state ought to be minimal or at least drastically reduced in strength and size, and that any transgression by the state beyond its sole legitimate purpose is unacceptable (ibid.). These beliefs could apply to the international level as well, where a system of free markets and free trade ought to be implemented as well; the only acceptable reason for regulating international trade is to safeguard the same kind of commercial liberty and the same kinds of strong property rights which ought to be realised on a national level (Norberg 2001; Friedman 2006). Neoliberalism generally also includes the belief that freely adopted market mechanisms is the optimal way of organising all exchanges of goods and services (Friedman 1962; 1980; Norberg 2001).

...

Neoliberalism could also include a perspective on moral virtue: the good and virtuous person is one who is able to access the relevant markets and function as a competent actor in these markets. He or she is willing to accept the risks associated with participating in free markets, and to adapt to rapid changes arising from such participation (Friedman 1980). Individuals are also seen as being solely responsible for the consequences of the choices and decisions they freely make: instances of inequality and glaring social injustice are morally acceptable, at least to the degree in which they could be seen as the result of freely made decisions (Nozick 1974; Hayek 1976). If a person demands that the state should regulate the market or make reparations to the unfortunate who has been caught at the losing end of a freely initiated market transaction, this is viewed as an indication that the person in question is morally depraved and underdeveloped, and scarcely different from a proponent of a totalitarian state (Mises 1962)."

sidd

[Iceismylife]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Narrowing the gap is called for.  But the economy has gone global so we need a global solution.  I'm all for having the US minimum wage apply to all export workers.  That would be $7.25/hr USD minimum anywhere in the world.

Largely it doesn't matte who gets elected as they are all bought and paid for.

[TerryM]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Narrowing the gap is called for.  But the economy has gone global so we need a global solution.  I'm all for having the US minimum wage apply to all export workers.  That would be $7.25/hr USD minimum anywhere in the world.

Largely it doesn't matte who gets elected as they are all bought and paid for.

Here in Ontario were at $15.00 Canadian, or ~$12.00 US.


Perhaps our trade partners should stem up to the plate?
Terry

[Iceismylife]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

Narrowing the gap is called for.  But the economy has gone global so we need a global solution.  I'm all for having the US minimum wage apply to all export workers.  That would be $7.25/hr USD minimum anywhere in the world.

Largely it doesn't matte who gets elected as they are all bought and paid for.

Here in Ontario were at $15.00 Canadian, or ~$12.00 US.


Perhaps our trade partners should stem up to the plate?
Terry

In the US we are in the habit of moving jobs to places with lower pay.  Set the floor everywhere the same.  If you want to pay more good for you.  And I mean it.  But less and don't send it to the US.

[Rob Dekker]

In a move against these 'globalist' Democrats, Trump found the following solution :

In the biggest blow he’s dealt to the renewable energy industry yet, President Donald Trump decided on Monday to slap tariffs on imported solar panels.

The U.S. will impose duties of as much as 30 percent on solar equipment made abroad, a move that threatens to handicap a $28 billion industry that relies on parts made abroad for 80 percent of its supply. Just the mere threat of tariffs has shaken solar developers in recent months, with some hoarding panels and others stalling projects in anticipation of higher costs. The Solar Energy Industries Association has projected tens of thousands of job losses in a sector that employed 260,000.

http://time.com/5113472/donald-trump-solar-panel-tariff/

Way to go Trump !
MAGA !

[Neven]

In a move against these 'globalist' Democrats, Trump found the following solution :

In the biggest blow he’s dealt to the renewable energy industry yet, President Donald Trump decided on Monday to slap tariffs on imported solar panels.

Why did Trump do it? And is that something you can make part of the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters and is just as much as part of the Establishment as the rest? What are Democrats in the Congress saying about it?

[sidd]

Tiptoeing roung single payer:

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/27/dccc-internal-polling-congress-single-payer/

sidd

[sidd]

Internals of CA convention: left and right wings fight it out

-- excerpts

“It’s not just about electing any Democrat, it’s about electing a Democrat who will act like a Democrat,”
...
“Dave is not the candidate who is furthest to the left,”
...
"Democratic performance improves when we give voters something inspiring to come out and vote for"

--

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/27/contested-endorsement-california-democratic-party-convention/

sidd

[TerryM]

Tiptoeing roung single payer:

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/27/dccc-internal-polling-congress-single-payer/

sidd

Ignoring the votes that Single Payer Healthcare will bring isn't the worst thing that a Democratic Candidate could do to assure his loss at the polls.


He could kick a puppy on National Television, or - - - . Damn, there just aren't many things that would swing so many voters.


Terry

[pileus]

I would assert that central planning outfits such as the DNC will be less important in 2018 and going forward.  The energy is organic right now, it’s local, it’s viral, it’s enabled by social media, and it’s not dependent on some man behind the curtains at a stodgy committee organization. 

It’s not incorrect that Dems step on rakes constantly, but it’s not going to matter much.  Republican supression is a greater threat than Dem incompetence this cycle.

[Rob Dekker]

Why did Trump do it? And is that something you can make part of the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters and is just as much as part of the Establishment as the rest? What are Democrats in the Congress saying about it?

I don't think we can make this part of a larger story. He made a similar move on foreign washing machines, and I'm not even kidding.

This solar tariff move by Trump is a classic move of protecting domestic production. In this case two US based companies, at least one of them foreign, which both are under bankruptcy protection AFAIK.

And let me be clear that the EU imposed similar measures against China earlier last year :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/08/solar-industry-says-eu-tariffs-chinese-imports-will-raise-panel-prices

A difference is that Trump's measures are "global" while the EU's measures were against China only. So Trump's measures also affected European solar producers.

Either way, it seems to me that Trump's measure protected just two struggling companies, while hurting the much larger base of solar installers in the US.

I don't think that counts as "the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters " just yet.
Seems to me that it is a short-sighted decision by Trump, which did not take into account that solar installers would be hit much more than solar producers would be helped. That's why I stated "Way to go Trump ! MAGA !". Trump is just clueless about what his own policies mean for the US.

It's absolute silence from the political front. I can't find any statements from either Democrats or Republicans on this issue.

[Alexander555]

Why did Trump do it? And is that something you can make part of the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters and is just as much as part of the Establishment as the rest? What are Democrats in the Congress saying about it?

I don't think we can make this part of a larger story. He made a similar move on foreign washing machines, and I'm not even kidding.

This solar tariff move by Trump is a classic move of protecting domestic production. In this case two US based companies, at least one of them foreign, which both are under bankruptcy protection AFAIK.

And let me be clear that the EU imposed similar measures against China earlier last year :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/08/solar-industry-says-eu-tariffs-chinese-imports-will-raise-panel-prices

A difference is that Trump's measures are "global" while the EU's measures were against China only. So Trump's measures also affected European solar producers.

Either way, it seems to me that Trump's measure protected just two struggling companies, while hurting the much larger base of solar installers in the US.

I don't think that counts as "the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters " just yet.
Seems to me that it is a short-sighted decision by Trump, which did not take into account that solar installers would be hit much more than solar producers would be helped. That's why I stated "Way to go Trump ! MAGA !". Trump is just clueless about what his own policies mean for the US.

It's absolute silence from the political front. I can't find any statements from either Democrats or Republicans on this issue.

Maybe it's hurting domestic installers. But your trade balance is in the worst shape ever. Even with big domestic energy production. So what are you going to do about that ?  Because that's what triggered all that money printing. That's how you have that 21 trillion in debt, and almost 70 trillion if you count everything together. Without the USD as the world reserve currency, the US would be bankrupted already. Your entire domestic industry would have been bankrupted, all your state employees would sit in deep poverty. It's because of these domestic installers that the sea's are full with big heavy polluting ships and the sky is full with heavy polluting airplains. And all of that because some globalists had to use the advantage of exploiting poverty somewhere els on this planet. Because that was an opportunity, using the low cost somewhere els to sell it at a higher price at home. And that placed pressure on everything at home, their  yields went down.  Which triggerd more money printing to keep the economy going. And triggerd more immigration to compensate higher cost local workers. These globalists ruined this entire planet.

[Martin Gisser]

Why did Trump do it? And is that something you can make part of the bigger story of how Trump deceived his voters and is just as much as part of the Establishment as the rest?

I don't think we can make this part of a larger story. He made a similar move on foreign washing machines, and I'm not even kidding.

This solar tariff move by Trump is a classic move of protecting domestic production. In this case two US based companies, at least one of them foreign, which both are under bankruptcy protection AFAIK.

I guess it's more about "beautiful clean coal" (as Trump put it) and protecting Trump's coal buddies. His voters voted for black lung disease, for coal ash dumped into rivers, for polluted groundwater from fracking, for yesterday's energy and more rural misery... Misery is good for the ego, and even better when you can blame the librols.

No deception there.

[Neven]

Besides the question how useful individual Trump policy actions are to (in this case perhaps killing clean energy jobs and the environment in favour of Trump's Big Fossil buddies), another question is whether Corporate Democrats would actually use it. Maybe they're for fracking too, or for an all-of-the-above approach, and so they won't attack Trump on this, but rather talk about how vulgar and sexist he is.

To get back on topic again. 

Thanks for the Intercept articles, sidd.

[ivica]

Are Corps Dems guided by profit and run by money?, or is that other way round?, or they prefer both ways so they can call that 'diversity'? 

< (should) people wait for corp(s) owned media outlet(s) to tell them what to think? >

[Neven]

From The Real News:

[zheega]

DCCC (like the DNC, but for Democratic House members/candidates) has been up to some "good stuff" lately.


DCCC telling all its candidates to no talk about gun control policy after the Texas shooting, instead tells them to offer "thoughts and prayers". Basically copying NRA talking points;



DCCC telling its candidates to not run on healthcare-specific issues and giving them anti-single-payer talking points;

[sidd]

Americ's finest news source holding US congress to the highest standards:

https://www.theonion.com/my-vote-is-not-for-sale-at-these-prices-1823358144

sidd

[sidd]

How Sausage is Made, or Purging the Leftists. Bonus: Pelosi sneaks away with the nomination:

"Stephen Jaffe, a progressive primary opponent to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, obtained ballot signatures from 37 of 182 eligible delegates before the petition deadline on Jan. 19. The challenge was rejected because, unbeknownst to Jaffe or his campaign, the party had an extended list of 190 eligible delegates which it never provided. The added 8 delegates made the threshold 38 signatures. Jaffe appealed the decision but the California Democratic Party scheduled its review for July 2017, a month after the primary contest. "

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/02/punishment-favoritism-and-a-bag-of-gummy-penises-h.html

sidd

[pileus]

I rarely agree with the Alt Left Conspiracy Crew in here on political matters, but DiFi should retire.  Octos represent the past, we need new progressive Dem ideas and energy in the most important state in the US.

[sidd]

Meanwhile, here's what corporate democrats do when they go to heaven:

“The first time investment comes to black communities, the first to get kicked out is low-income and working-class people. Why wouldn’t you sign a CBA to protect us?”

...

" ... a 23.3 percent increase in home values ..."

...

"Obama has gone from sticking it to the man to … being the man."

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/28/barack-obama-library-chicago-217093

He was always the man. Come on Barack, throw them a bone. They gonna have to move out as the rent goes up, anyway. Cough up some of that 400KUSD a pop you get for speechifying and schmoozing for an afternoon with your wall street employers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/01/barack-obama-speaking-fees-economic-racial-justice

Or some of that 65 million USD for the book deal.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2017/03/barack-michelle-obama-land-book-deal

sidd

[Neven]

I rarely agree with the Alt Left Conspiracy Crew in here on political matters, but DiFi should retire.  Octos represent the past, we need new progressive Dem ideas and energy in the most important state in the US.

I didn't know you were ageist, pileus. And a woman to boot, who has done so many wonderful, progressive things for the American people. Shame on you.

How Sausage is Made, or Purging the Leftists. Bonus: Pelosi sneaks away with the nomination:

"Stephen Jaffe, a progressive primary opponent to House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, obtained ballot signatures from 37 of 182 eligible delegates before the petition deadline on Jan. 19. The challenge was rejected because, unbeknownst to Jaffe or his campaign, the party had an extended list of 190 eligible delegates which it never provided. The added 8 delegates made the threshold 38 signatures. Jaffe appealed the decision but the California Democratic Party scheduled its review for July 2017, a month after the primary contest. "

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/02/punishment-favoritism-and-a-bag-of-gummy-penises-h.html

sidd

Wow, that's amazing. Here's another quote:

California House Speaker Anthony Rendon’s primary opponent, Maria Estrada, experienced similar issues. She obtained 11 signatures for her ballot petition, one more than what is required to formally challenge the party’s endorsement of Rendon. Estrada alleges that the California Democratic Party provided a list of her signatories to Rendon’s campaign, which coerced two of them to send the party a letter asking for their signatures to be rescinded.

Her campaign asserts this has never been done historically, and there are no party rules permitting ballot signatories to revoke their signatures. The California Democratic Party also scheduled her campaign’s appeal for July 2018, after the primary and state convention, effectively ensuring the party’s formal endorsement stood.

“It is clear by the response from the CDP/CRC, they will say and do anything to obstruct and suppress new candidates who represent the progressive movement from holding office in California,” Estrada said. “The amount of money the party generates from industries like the pharmaceutical industry, healthcare industry, big oil and other monied interests combined with the fact that Speaker Rendón and Nancy Pelosi are able to raise a tremendous amount of money for the party, there is little chance they would risk losing their two biggest money makers.”

If I've understood correctly, that Rendón is the Corporate Democrat who killed a single-payer health care bill for California. There must be a reward for that. What amazing, corrupt, disgusting, little tricks...

[pileus]

I rarely agree with the Alt Left Conspiracy Crew in here on political matters, but DiFi should retire.  Octos represent the past, we need new progressive Dem ideas and energy in the most important state in the US.

I didn't know you were ageist, pileus. And a woman to boot, who has done so many wonderful, progressive things for the American people. Shame on you

  proud card carrying ageist when it comes to politicians over 75.  They are dinosaurs and stand in the way of progress.

There are plenty of women coming up behind DiFi to take her place.  In fact, a record number of women will be on the ballot in state and national elections this year.  This of course is very disturbing to the Forgotten Man Whisperers of the Bro Left, as they will be shaken by the tide of women sweeping into positions of power and influence.

In other news sure to sadden Ye Olde Alt Left Conspiracy Crew, Dems are up 15 in the generic ballot.  Obama Dems, Hillary Dems, all the Dems are coming in waves in November.  The Alt Left Brigade of Revolutionaries and Unicorns would rather have Republicans in power, so this will cause much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Suffolk University/USA Today Poll Shows Voters Favoring Democrats as Midterms Approach

http://www.suffolk.edu/news/76223.php#.WpjQR6ZOmhA

[Neven]

proud card carrying ageist when it comes to politicians over 75.  They are dinosaurs and stand in the way of progress.

Willing to trade a few elderly millionaire neolibs for Sanders, eh? 

There are plenty of women coming up behind DiFi to take her place.  In fact, a record number of women will be on the ballot in state and national elections this year.  This of course is very disturbing to the Forgotten Man Whisperers of the Bro Left, as they will be shaken by the tide of women sweeping into positions of power and influence.

The Forgotten Man Whisperers of the Bro Left? To what percentage of progressives does this smear apply? When can we expect you to subtly emphasize the link between Russia and progressives, or hasn't the mainstream media blown its whistle hard enough yet?

In other news sure to sadden Ye Olde Alt Left Conspiracy Crew, Dems are up 15 in the generic ballot.  Obama Dems, Hillary Dems, all the Dems are coming in waves in November.  The Alt Left Brigade of Revolutionaries and Unicorns would rather have Republicans in power, so this will cause much weeping and gnashing of teeth.

No, they want real liberals in power, not corporate tools who talk about income inequality, while being worth 100 million dollars. The more women, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a man fan, even though I'm a man myself.

[Neven]

Some time ago someone asked me about Austrian politics. At the time I said:

I haven't followed Austrian politics enough, as I'm not allowed to vote, but here too I think I see the signs of a smug, politically correct left which promotes neoliberal economic policies, with the extreme right FPÖ capitalizing on that, using the GOP/Trump playbook.

Today I read this crazy thing on Der Standard (the paper of note over here). During the last elections, The Greens were wiped out to the point that they no longer have a seat in the Austrian parliament. And so their leader stepped down. Today she announced she has found a new job. Where? At a betting company.



You can't make this stuff up. If I were allowed to vote here, I'm not sure I would vote Greens for a while to come. But what's the alternative? Remember, this follows on the heels of this recent scandal:

In Austria there's a huge political scandal (parliamentary elections coming up) where the socialist party SPÖ hired some Israeli campaign guru* who went on to set up fake Facebook accounts smearing the SPÖ itself as well the ÖVP and suggesting this was coming from the far-right FPÖ, thus killing two birds with one stone.

Let's just say it didn't help the SPÖ in the elections, paving the way for the FPÖ to become part of the government. That Israeli campaign guru, BTW, is a close associate of Stanley Greenberg, who worked for all kinds of Democrats and is known for stuff like this:

In May 2010 Greenberg was linked to a controversy involving White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. As a House member, Emanuel had lived for five years in a rent-free D.C. apartment jointly owned by Greenberg's wife, Democratic House member Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut, and Greenberg. During this time, Emanuel was chairman of a committee that awarded large polling contracts to Greenberg's firm.

Following the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill, Greenberg's work for BP became controversial. Greenberg's firm has been called a "prime architect" of BP's effort to rebrand itself as a green petroleum company. As early as 2002, critics had deemed that effort "greenwashing".

It's this kind of stuff that is causing huge PR problems for the left around the western world. People can see that the gravy train is more important than serving the interests of the people (corroborating right-wing spin), which also explains why these Corporate Democrats (and their followers, as pileus keeps showing) will do everything to shut true progressives out by smearing them and playing all kinds of dirty tricks to keep them out of office, where they might actually change the status quo.

This is the number one hurdle to making steps towards meaningful change. Because you can't beat Republicans with Corporate Democrats (who don't care, as it's all about siphoning off donor money). And this goes for the entire western world. Neoliberalism on the left must end as soon as possible, or it will be Trump and GOP for a long while to come.

[SteveMDFP]

. . .
No, they want real liberals in power, not corporate tools who talk about income inequality, while being worth 100 million dollars. The more women, the merrier, as far as I'm concerned. I'm not a man fan, even though I'm a man myself.

I empathize.  But the Democratic party would do well to embrace those filthy rich folks who know they got there mostly by good fortune, and want to live in a better society with, among other things, higher taxation for the wealthy.  There are some such folks, and we desperately need their active support.

Wealthy does not equal evil.  In Congress, I think Pelosi and (formerly) Barbara Boxer fit this profile, and outside, folks like the Oracle of Omaha.

In a political system defined by money, we do not do ourselves any favors by biting the hands we need.

[sidd]

"In a political system defined by money, we do not do ourselves any favors by biting the hands we need."

The first clause defines the problem. Sucking the big money teat ensures that your reps remain enslaved. Crowdfund or go home.

Here is what democrats like Heitkamp, Warner Coons are doing, gutting Dodd-Frank to benefit the banks. Thos banks need to be brought to justice and their executives need jail time. Instead we have bought and paid for democrats fellating them.

The banks own DC.

https://theintercept.com/2018/03/02/crapo-instead-of-taking-on-gun-control-democrats-are-teaming-with-republicans-for-a-stealth-attack-on-wall-street-reform/

sidd

[Neven]

I empathize.  But the Democratic party would do well to embrace those filthy rich folks who know they got there mostly by good fortune, and want to live in a better society with, among other things, higher taxation for the wealthy.  There are some such folks, and we desperately need their active support.

There may be filthy rich people who donate money with no strings attached, because they're liberals. But there are definitely no corporate entities like that. Corporations need to make a profit, so if they give money to something, they expect a return.

In a political system defined by money, we do not do ourselves any favors by biting the hands we need.

Yes, that's the crux of the problem and like sidd says, you are never going to change this, if you start by accepting that money. If you say this problem cannot ever be solved, then everything is simply hopeless.

[Martin Gisser]

There may be filthy rich people who donate money with no strings attached, because they're liberals. But there are definitely no corporate entities like that. Corporations need to make a profit, so if they give money to something, they expect a return.

For many corporations a healthy middle class translates into more customers. They should thus support politics which by American standards would seem far-left.

[Neven]

For many corporations a healthy middle class translates into more customers. They should thus support politics which by American standards would seem far-left.

I agree, Martin, but a) that's long-term thinking and this year's bonus takes precedence, and b) we live in a globalized world, there are other middle classes elsewhere that give more bang for a buck.

In fact, no, I disagree, you can make more money from unhealthy, addicted people, than from healthy ones. Hence the system we have.

[sidd]

Populist democrat in WV

"When I asked Manchin about Ojeda, his answer was brief. “Rich is a populist,” Manchin told me. “He’s a people’s person”—as restrained an assessment of Ojeda as I’d heard."

Manchin, can you hear it comin ?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/02/richard-ojeda-west-virginia-blue-army-one-217217

sidd

[Rob Dekker]

Some time ago someone asked me about Austrian politics. At the time I said:

I haven't followed Austrian politics enough, as I'm not allowed to vote, but here too I think I see the signs of a smug, politically correct left which promotes neoliberal economic policies, with the extreme right FPÖ capitalizing on that, using the GOP/Trump playbook.

Today I read this crazy thing on Der Standard (the paper of note over here). During the last elections, The Greens were wiped out to the point that they no longer have a seat in the Austrian parliament. And so their leader stepped down. Today she announced she has found a new job. Where? At a betting company.



You can't make this stuff up. If I were allowed to vote here, I'm not sure I would vote Greens for a while to come. But what's the alternative? Remember, this follows on the heels of this recent scandal:

In Austria there's a huge political scandal (parliamentary elections coming up) where the socialist party SPÖ hired some Israeli campaign guru* who went on to set up fake Facebook accounts smearing the SPÖ itself as well the ÖVP and suggesting this was coming from the far-right FPÖ, thus killing two birds with one stone.

Let's just say it didn't help the SPÖ in the elections, paving the way for the FPÖ to become part of the government. That Israeli campaign guru, BTW, is a close associate of Stanley Greenberg, who worked for all kinds of Democrats and is known for stuff like this:

In May 2010 Greenberg was linked to a controversy involving White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. As a House member, Emanuel had lived for five years in a rent-free D.C. apartment jointly owned by Greenberg's wife, Democratic House member Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut, and Greenberg. During this time, Emanuel was chairman of a committee that awarded large polling contracts to Greenberg's firm.

Following the 2010 Deepwater Horizon oil spill, Greenberg's work for BP became controversial. Greenberg's firm has been called a "prime architect" of BP's effort to rebrand itself as a green petroleum company. As early as 2002, critics had deemed that effort "greenwashing".

It's this kind of stuff that is causing huge PR problems for the left around the western world. People can see that the gravy train is more important than serving the interests of the people (corroborating right-wing spin), which also explains why these Corporate Democrats (and their followers, as pileus keeps showing) will do everything to shut true progressives out by smearing them and playing all kinds of dirty tricks to keep them out of office, where they might actually change the status quo.

This is the number one hurdle to making steps towards meaningful change. Because you can't beat Republicans with Corporate Democrats (who don't care, as it's all about siphoning off donor money). And this goes for the entire western world. Neoliberalism on the left must end as soon as possible, or it will be Trump and GOP for a long while to come.

Interesting, Neven, that you are bring up arguments against the Greens and the Left wing SPÖ, but you have no issue with the real shocker in Austrian politics, which is that there is now a far-right wing party FPÖ (which is sponsored by Russia) in your government.

[Neven]

Interesting, Neven, that you are bring up arguments against the Greens and the Left wing SPÖ, but you have no issue with the real shocker in Austrian politics, which is that there is now a far-right wing party FPÖ (which is sponsored by Russia) in your government.

Those arguments I bring up against the Greens and SPÖ could be considered 'evidence' that dirty tricks played by the left and taking on dirty jobs by the left are an enormous PR problem, reinforcing the propaganda that GOP/FPÖ put out about the 'left'. These things help the GOP/FPÖ gain more power. And the reason behind this PR problem is that left parties all around the world have embraced neoliberalism and copied Democrat Party politics.

I'm not bringing up arguments against the Austrian left. They are doing it themselves. The same is happening in the Netherlands, where the only party on the left who seems to have integrity, is the Partij voor de Dieren (party for the animals), but they can't really get big because their focus is one issue, which is animal welfare.

Do you think these issues, opening fake Facebook accounts to smear political opponents (in fact, making it look as if they are smearing each other, so you look clean), or getting a job at a dubious company as soon as you get out of politics, should just be glossed over? No big deal?

[Rob Dekker]

Interesting, Neven, that you are bring up arguments against the Greens and the Left wing SPÖ, but you have no issue with the real shocker in Austrian politics, which is that there is now a far-right wing party FPÖ (which is sponsored by Russia) in your government.

Those arguments I bring up against the Greens and SPÖ could be considered 'evidence' that dirty tricks played by the left and taking on dirty jobs by the left are an enormous PR problem, reinforcing the propaganda that GOP/FPÖ put out about the 'left'. These things help the GOP/FPÖ gain more power. And the reason behind this PR problem is that left parties all around the world have embraced neoliberalism and copied Democrat Party politics.

I'm not bringing up arguments against the Austrian left. They are doing it themselves. The same is happening in the Netherlands, where the only party on the left who seems to have integrity, is the Partij voor de Dieren (party for the animals), but they can't really get big because their focus is one issue, which is animal welfare.

Do you think these issues, opening fake Facebook accounts to smear political opponents (in fact, making it look as if they are smearing each other, so you look clean), or getting a job at a dubious company as soon as you get out of politics, should just be glossed over? No big deal?

Again, lots of criticism against the left, and not a bad word about FPÖ.
Are you a far-right FPÖ supporter, Neven ?
What is your immigration policy, for example ?
You know, what about all these Syrians getting into Europe ?

[gerontocrat]

You know, what about all these Syrians getting into Europe ?

Once upon a time, Syria was a reasonably prosperous dictatorship, though Bashar Assad's dad murdered a good many thousands of his citizens. However, his disgusting acts have been totally outdone by what has happened since an insurrection turned into a proxy regional war (Saudi Arabia & Iran) and then a proxy Great Powers War (USA/NATO & Russia).

Hence a lot of Syrians getting out of Dodge.

A plague on all OUR houses. And, of course, saying this stuff makes one a traitor.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" : Samuel Johnson 1775

[Alexander555]

What i know about these Syrians, is that it's the same people that started that war in Syria. That are now moving into Europe. That war started in Aleppo. And Aleppo is (was ) mainly a consentration of immigrants. Immigrants that moved in from other places in the middle-east in the last dozens of years. And 7 years ago it exploded in that immigrant stronghold of Aleppo . And  now they move further, into Europe. A nice world without borders.