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sidd

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Tor Bejnar

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1301 on: June 21, 2018, 02:09:30 PM »
Michael Bloomberg Will Spent $80 Million to Flip the House
Quote
Former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is going to spend at least $80 million of his own fortune to flip the House of Representatives to the Democrats. But there is a catch: He prefers to support only moderate, business-friendly Democrats. Bloomberg's personal issue is gun control, so he is not going to waste any money in conservative rural districts where a candidate who supports gun control laws has no chance. His real target is affluent suburban districts populated by moderate Republicans who have had enough of Donald Trump and are ripe for a business-friendly Democrat.

Bloomberg is in contact regularly with Democratic leaders, in particular Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-NY) and Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA). He is also planning to work with Emily's List to elect more women to Congress. The effort will be overseen by Howard Wolfson, a former executive director of the DCCC, who is very well plugged in to the Democratic establishment.

Most Democrats will be overjoyed to get such a large contribution from someone who understands politics himself very well. However, supporters of Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) may not be jumping for joy since Bloomberg has little interest in a $15 minimum wage and even less interest in breaking up the big banks. On the other hand, Bloomberg is not planning to wade into the primaries to support establishment candidates against progressive candidates. He will support whoever the Democratic House candidate is in any district that he thinks is winnable. But given his focus on suburban districts currently held by Republicans, he will mostly end up supporting moderates. Still, most progressives hate Trump so much that even Blue Dogs are beginning to look good. (V)
from my 'favorite' political commentary blog: Electoral-vote.com
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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1302 on: June 21, 2018, 07:06:11 PM »
Was just reading about Bloomberg, and since this will provoke the usual disdain for those who must deal with reality, not the dreamland where - puff, hey presto - money in politics is gone because of attacks on Democrats, I append a comment I found on the subject:

Quote
Until we ENACT new election rules that removes the influence of big money and levels the playing field, we Democrats must fight on the field of battle before us. We cannot afford to turn away money from wealthy donors who support us. We have to win control FIRST before change can happen, otherwise it's it's just wishful thinking.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/20/us/politics/mike-bloomberg-democrats-election.html

Quote
Mr. Bloomberg is said to be intrigued by a list of candidates produced by Representative Seth Moulton of Massachusetts, a 39-year-old military veteran who has emerged as a leading critic of Nancy Pelosi, the minority leader.Credit

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1303 on: June 22, 2018, 10:57:53 PM »
Nice one:

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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1304 on: June 22, 2018, 11:37:01 PM »
^^^ With friends like these are enemies even necessary?
Terry

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1305 on: June 23, 2018, 02:04:46 AM »
Nice one: [link removed - see original from Neven above]

Why is Jimmy Dore the fount of all wisdom and the only purveyor of truth? I know some "believe" him and "hate" Rachel Maddow, but that's personal, not objective. There is no fact checking, but there is a clear agenda. The "in-crowd" on this forum are like climate science deniers, dismissing anything they don't like and promoting materials that are not objective.

Mostly, the Jimmy Dore links don't open for me, but this one did, so I watched it and did a brief fact check in my amateur way on one item that caught my attention:
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-President-Obama-appoint-Ajit-Pai-to-the-FCC-when-in-2007-he-promised-that-his-FCC-appointments-would-defend-the-principles-of-a-level-playing-field
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/7gkjex/why_on_earth_did_obama_nominate_ajit_pai_to_the/

Blaming victims doesn't cut it. Bernie's "in bed" with these people? Honestly, anyone can say anything on the internet (your witness: me).

If you all want to survive, you have to stop prioritizing your attacks on the good guys, and focus on the bad guys.

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1306 on: June 23, 2018, 02:09:56 AM »
ASIL, I have a feeling I'd agree on your "votes" but I'm in Massachusetts, except for Tulsi Gabbard. This was a revelation to me about her:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/11/06/what-does-tulsi-gabbard-believe

Turns out she's more of a centrist and military booster than most Dems. Just because she's pretty and young doesn't make her more progressive.

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1307 on: June 24, 2018, 11:08:33 PM »
I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I think it merits consideration. It is part of my ongoing effort to provide information that will dislodge the conviction that circular firing squads and blaming victims is the way to fix my country. I don't know if you all are aware of this practice, but you should know that Democrats are not the party in power. They had power for 5 months in 2009, after Al Franken was seated and before Ted Kennedy's illness and death, when they had a 60-vote supermajority. This is a brief and tidy summary of how Congress has worked since the mid-1990s:

Quote
The reason John Boehner did not bring the comprehensive, bipartisan immigration bill to the floor of the House after it passed the Senate in a 68 to 32 vote, was because of the Hastert Rule, an informal but iron clad rule, initiated by a pedophile and followed, religiously, by every Republican speaker since. The rule is simple, the Republican Speaker of the House will bring no legislation to the floor unless it has the approval of the majority of the Republicans in the house, which, basically negates the whole reason for the House's existence and makes the Speaker of the House a partisan position that negates the Speakers role entirely. No such rule exists in the Democratic party and none will ever appear because Democrats value country over political party. If Republicans didn't follow this hollow rule we would have comprehensive immigration reform, healthcare reform, infrastructure projects, leading to full employment and a raise in the minimum wage. Still, the best outcome of not following the rule would have been that the most extreme positions of the Republican party, along with their insane practitioners, would have been marginalized long before they culminated in Donald Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastert_Rule

By the way, Citizens' United was a lawsuit over an attack movie against Hillary Clinton. She was, once again, the victim not the perp. Just as she was branded a "liar" by William Safire when she tried to design universal health care early in her husband's first term. Similarly, the Republicans on the Benghazi witchhunt were the ones who voted to defund embassy security before they spent years and millions trying to pin it on her.

I'm not overly fond of Clinton's style, and her pragmatism resulted in embracing some dubious positions (fracking, speaking fees), but I don't like bullies, and the attacks on her are the result of a quarter century of bullying, in the end embraced not only by unified Republicans but by purity-monsters from the left.

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1308 on: June 27, 2018, 05:33:10 AM »
Well, hello there. Crowley out, Ocasio-Cortez in. Unseated party supported incumbent on small dollars.

Now she needs help for the big game. Send her some love.

Mr. Wili posted this elsewhere, i see.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1102.msg160954.html#msg160954


sidd


Tor Bejnar

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1309 on: June 27, 2018, 06:34:36 AM »
I understand 'Corporate' Crowley immediately endorsed 'Socialist Democrat' Ocasio-Cortez.  Apparently, she is a shoe-in (now) to be elected in this very D district. At 28, she may be the youngest member in the new House of Representatives.  (There have been younger ones.)
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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1310 on: June 27, 2018, 08:11:12 AM »
Well, hello there. Crowley out, Ocasio-Cortez in. Unseated party supported incumbent on small dollars.

Now she needs help for the big game. Send her some love.

Good for her and good for New York! What I had seen from that Crowley, and read about him, he seemed the prototype Corporate Democrat. I watched one of their debates (where he decided to show up) and he was very slimy and fake.

Like Ocasio-Cortez says: It's time we acknowledge that not all Democrats are the same.

It's the only way the American political system can be changed.
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zheega

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1311 on: June 27, 2018, 06:29:05 PM »
I understand 'Corporate' Crowley immediately endorsed 'Socialist Democrat' Ocasio-Cortez.  Apparently, she is a shoe-in (now) to be elected in this very D district. At 28, she may be the youngest member in the new House of Representatives.  (There have been younger ones.)

What else can Crowley do? The district is +25 Dem leaning, he can't not endorse her when he knows it is 99% likely she will win. And Crowley definitely plans to run for something else soon.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1312 on: June 27, 2018, 06:38:03 PM »
And Crowley definitely plans to run for something else soon.

Yes, it will be interesting to see where he ends up. As I've understood it, he was a big, big friend of Wall Street.

Hopefully America will see a couple more upsets of this magnitude, as it is of paramount importance that a signal is sent out to Corporate Democrats who are representing neoliberalism instead of the people (and thus helping Trump win).
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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1313 on: June 27, 2018, 09:04:46 PM »
side note: imnsho, Caitlin Johnstone is not what she pretends to be. I did some digging and found her less than straightforward (to put it mildly) about her antecedents. At least one of the platforms she uses allows her to "vote" for herself multiple times, and she's got quite some axe to grind. Whether her agenda is driven by honest extremism, self-promotion, and/or undisclosed third party promotion, she's not helping improve the situation. Ready bait for agitators ...
--

More than delighted with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez win. Sadly, my gal Katie Wilson didn't make it.
https://nyti.ms/2N5MecL
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There are a range of "camps" eager to overinterpret each of these events as "evidence".

Across the nation, what is emerging is that committed candidates are talking to people and about issues, and whether they are centrist (Doug Jones), working class (Conor Lamb), or social democrats (not communists, no matter the insult comic republican talk). Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a wonderful candidate and she deserved to win.

Berniebusters and centrists, stick to the important message. Get your friends and allies in office; realize that you all agree on the basics, whether you call it affordable health care for all or Medicare for all, whether it's $15/hour or a living wage. We need to get rid of cheating in elections, and that means a Democratic majority in 2020, and no more conservatives in the Supreme Court. We need to deal with climate change, and that means not one single current Republican who denies reality and science and wants to defund it for tax cuts for the rich or more fancy weaponry rather than public service and infrastructure.

The list goes on and on, but cut it out with the infighting! It might be easier to argue with people who can hear you and largely agree with you, but there are serious enemies about.

They don't care. Do U?

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1314 on: June 27, 2018, 10:42:57 PM »
NY is important as it illustrates the point that a progressive candidate, unencumbered by Corporate cash can win, even when outspent 18 to 1.
The DNC & DCCC must be horrified as this exemplifies just how weak their slate is when challenged from the left.


Her message was/is that "All Democrats are NOT alike", and this is the message that needs to prevail. We can't do much about the 45 Republicans who stand in our way, but we can do something about the 6 Democrats who side with them when the issues come to a head.
Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1315 on: June 27, 2018, 11:43:27 PM »
Sanders making some very good points in his reaction to Ocasio's win, including about the 'infighting'. Also a short clip of Nancy Pelosi in there showing she's full of it.

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1316 on: June 28, 2018, 05:27:47 AM »
Van Jones also makes good points on what this signal means and how important it is that politicians are authentic (Nancy Pelosi: People don't want a new direction, and neither does my bank account):

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Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1317 on: June 28, 2018, 05:30:20 AM »
And kudos to CNN and MSNBC to give it this much attention. Let's see how far they're allowed to go, and for how long.

Morning Joe with Ocasio-Cortez:

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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1318 on: June 28, 2018, 08:33:49 AM »
And kudos to CNN and MSNBC to give it this much attention. Let's see how far they're allowed to go, and for how long.

Morning Joe with Ocasio-Cortez:

She's all over the news everywhere. She's impressive, and we're all impressed. She's been featured everywhere: I saw her (and Bernie) on Chris Hayes, with an overlap into Maddow, tonight.

There is no "allowed to"; that remark demonstrates a lack of understanding of what CNN and MSNBC do and how they function, getting it exactly backwards. They are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

aperson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1319 on: June 28, 2018, 10:21:23 AM »
Spin whatever narrative you want, the campaign contribution numbers speak for themselves.

Ocasio-Cortez:
Small Individual Contributions (≤ $200)   $207,827   69.11%
Large Individual Contributions   $87,909   29.23%
PAC Contributions*   $5,150   1.71%
Candidate self-financing   $0   0.00%
Other   -$176   -0.06%

Crowley:
Small Individual Contributions (< $200)   $26,496   0.79%
Large Individual Contributions   $955,068   28.47%
PAC Contributions*   $1,497,095   44.63%
Candidate self-financing   $0   0.00%
Other   $875,712   26.11%

https://www.opensecrets.org/races/candidates?cycle=2018&id=NY14&spec=N
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/contributors?cid=N00001127&cycle=2018&recs=100&type=I


How does the DNC react to the people's candidate? Let's check in with Pelosi
Quote
“Chairman Joe Crowley has been an unwavering champion for America’s working families for almost two decades.  To know Congressman Crowley is to know his fierce pride in representing Queens and the Bronx, and the joy and effectiveness he brought to serve as their voice in the Congress.

“As Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, Joe Crowley brought principled, unifying and forward-looking leadership to the historic challenges of the Trump Administration.  Our Caucus has been strengthened by his chairmanship, and by Chairman Crowley’s relentless determination to defend the inclusive America symbolized by the Statue of Liberty.

“I salute Chairman Crowley for a formidable legacy of achievement for the people of New York.  I congratulate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on her victory.”
https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/62618-5/
computer janitor by trade

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1320 on: June 28, 2018, 10:52:07 AM »
how far they're allowed to go .. ?

Not speaking for Neven but the way I READ what he said was that "they" are all the Democrats who are like Bernie and in this particular case Ms Ocasio-Cortez.

No, I meant the media. They can be part of the solution, but as we've seen over the past decades, they are also part of the problem. To think that the anchor millionaires can talk about whatever they want, is naive at best. They can't, and one might ask whether they even want to.

But what I've seen from the US mainstream media on Ocasio-Cortez so far, was nice for a change. Mind you, she's a radical, and the establishment narrative is: Don't be radical, don't make waves, be moderate, don't be a 'conspiracy theorist'. And so, I'm not expecting a sudden reversal. I'd rather expect they will try to hug her to death, while trying to pervert her and turn her into a Howard Dean or Obama.

I wish her all the best. But most of all I wish she is joined by many more people like her.
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1321 on: June 28, 2018, 08:15:35 PM »
wsws lists senators wanting Assange's head:

"Robert Menendez, Dick Durbin, Richard Blumenthal, Edward J. Markey, Michael Bennet, Christopher Coons, Joe Manchin, Jeanne Shaheen, Diane Feinstein and Mark Warner."

Remember these names. These are creatures that support american hegemony. The cannot abide exposure of deep state evils. Hence their attacks on Assange.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/06/28/assa-j28.html

sidd


sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1322 on: June 28, 2018, 08:23:54 PM »
Spookification of the Democratic party proceeds apace:

" Colvin spent six years in Army intelligence ...facilitated capture/kill missions ...  lethal drone program ... "

"Tracy Mitrano, is a Cornell professor and cybersecurity expert who has consulted for the national security apparatus and has a former CIA agent as campaign spokeswoman ..."

" ... 79 seats that are viewed as potentially competitive."

"For those 79 seats, at least 24 of the Democratic Party nominees have backgrounds in the national-security apparatus, making them the largest single category, ahead of state and local government officials, lawyers or businessmen."

Killers and torturers for the greater glory of Empire, running as your Democrat rep in an election near you.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/06/28/prim-j28.html

sidd

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1323 on: June 28, 2018, 10:07:16 PM »
wsws lists senators wanting Assange's head:

"Robert Menendez, Dick Durbin, Richard Blumenthal, Edward J. Markey, Michael Bennet, Christopher Coons, Joe Manchin, Jeanne Shaheen, Diane Feinstein and Mark Warner."

Remember these names. These are creatures that support american hegemony. The cannot abide exposure of deep state evils. Hence their attacks on Assange.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/06/28/assa-j28.html

sidd

Please get outside your pre-formed allegiance and take an honest look at Assange's recent behavior. Ed Markey is my senator and has been fighting the good fight on climate change and every other issue since forever. Some of the others are dubious, but the worst of them is better than the best Republican these days.

Assange, not so much; a definite player in giving the world Trump. He used to be OK, but recently he's let himself go "all in" with Russia and the Trump organization. He's in it for reasons that no longer bear direct scrutiny. I used to be a fan, but he's lost it and is a bundle of uncontrolled resentment and dangerous distortion. I continue to think Snowden did us all an enormous favor, but Assange, no longer. This guy who reported on serious time he spent with Assange: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/08/21/julian-assange-a-man-without-a-country It's a long article, but objective and full of useful observations.

Quote
WikiLeaks, like many journalistic organizations, has long insisted on keeping its sources secret. However, Assange was not merely maintaining silence; he was actively pushing a narrative about his sourcing, in which Russia was not involved. He once told me, “WikiLeaks is providing a reference set to undeniably true information about the world.” But what if, in the interest of source protection, he was advancing a falsehood that was more significant than the reference set itself? Arguably, his election publications only underscored what was known about the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton. His denials, meanwhile, potentially obfuscated an act of information warfare between two nuclear-armed powers.

From Laura Poitras on her documentary: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2017/07/13/nihilism-of-julian-assange-wikileaks/
Quote
Laura Poitras’s messy documentary portrait of Julian Assange, the filmmaker addresses the viewer from off-camera. “This is not the film I thought I was making,” she says. “I thought I could ignore the contradictions. I thought they were not part of the story. I was so wrong. They are becoming the story.”

By the time she makes this confession, Poitras has been filming Assange, on and off, for six years. He has gone from a bit player on the international stage to one of its dramatic leads. His gleeful interference in the 2016 American presidential election—first with the release of e-mails poached from the Democratic National Committee, timed to coincide with, undermine, and possibly derail Hillary Clinton’s nomination at the Democratic Convention, and then with the publication of the private e-mail correspondence of Clinton’s adviser John Podesta, which was leaked, drip by drip, in the days leading up to the election to maximize the damage it might inflict on Clinton—elevated Assange’s profile and his influence.

And then this spring, it emerged that Nigel Farage, the Trump adviser and former head of the nationalist and anti-immigrant UK Independence Party (UKIP) who is now a person of interest in the FBI investigation of the Trump campaign’s ties to Russia, was meeting with Assange. To those who once saw him as a crusader for truth and accountability, Assange suddenly looked more like a Svengali and a willing tool of Vladimir Putin, and certainly a man with no particular affection for liberal democracy.
Yet those tendencies were present all along.

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1324 on: June 28, 2018, 10:14:56 PM »
Democrats include a number of people with military cred because of the nature of the contest. Some of them are your favorites from Bernie's "Our Revolution". Here's an example of another kind, whom I saw myself when the Parkland kids protest came to Boston.

A woman, ex-marine, with tours in wars you and I disapprove of, who decided to become a teacher. She spoke from an experience with guns and fighting, was explaining from personal experience why teachers should not have guns in the classroom to defend against possible shooters. She was able to give examples and statistics explaining why the only defense against a "bad guy with a bun" (Wayne LaPierre, NRA quote) is not a good guy (or gal) with a gun.

People with experience are often the best witnesses. And her choice to engage in public service as a teacher was threatened by the gung-ho promotion of gun sales uber alles, along with laws that make it easier to get a gun than register to vote.

A very effective witness. Trump and his crew of chickenhawks are dangerous cowardly bullies. Some dedicated veterans know a lot more about what is wrong with war than us armchair critics.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1325 on: June 29, 2018, 12:27:53 AM »
Morning Joe was nice today, but MSNBC manages to have some idiot on to spread some more of the conditioned anti-'radical' propaganda, calling Ocasio-Cortez a 'dishonest progressive'. That guy is disconnected and full of it.

It will be interesting to see whether we get Mika or Steve Schmidt in the weeks, months and years to come. Maybe they're waiting to see what smears Fox come up with first.





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TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1326 on: June 29, 2018, 04:54:27 AM »

Neven
3 great pieces by Kyle!


If Hannity provides the GOP and the DNC with their talking points, the progressive candidates will sweep to victory wherever they're on the ticket. Alexandria is campaigning on the very issues that most American voters have said that they support.


It's easy for Democrats to win elections, where they get tangled up is when they try to appease their moneyed backers rather than appealing to their voting public.
Terry

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1327 on: June 29, 2018, 08:37:14 AM »
My biggest criticism of Assange is that he has a big ego, but at the same time I'm aware of the fact it's usually this type of person that is willing to take on the powers that be. As Frank Zappa says, the meek will inherit nothing.

Either way, he shouldn't be locked up in that embassy. No journalist should be. 

And the fact that Democrats used to love him when he exposed how the establishment screws the people while war criminal Bush was in power, but flipped and hated him when he did the same with war criminal Obama, is an example of the problem, the hurdle that the American people is facing if it wants to come clean.

Speaking of which, I saw this picture somewhere that makes me sick to my stomach:



There you have it, in a nutshell.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1328 on: June 29, 2018, 05:21:05 PM »
And kudos to CNN and MSNBC to give it this much attention. Let's see how far they're allowed to go, and for how long.
Hahaaaahaha - that much from the "progressive" MSM bashing club.

Three cheers to Susan!  :-*
This (amoung other comments) bears repeating:

And kudos to CNN and MSNBC to give it this much attention. Let's see how far they're allowed to go, and for how long.

Morning Joe with Ocasio-Cortez:

She's all over the news everywhere. She's impressive, and we're all impressed. She's been featured everywhere: I saw her (and Bernie) on Chris Hayes, with an overlap into Maddow, tonight.

There is no "allowed to"; that remark demonstrates a lack of understanding of what CNN and MSNBC do and how they function, getting it exactly backwards. They are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

---------------------------------

To think that the anchor millionaires can talk about whatever they want, is naive at best. They can't, and one might ask whether they even want to.
"100-Millionaire" (a recent Hannitism) Bill Maher is still allowed to say Fuck as he pleases, etc., and recently there was this millionaire Jewish guy on that CBS lowly lifeform guy's show presenting a reality inspired apoteosis of the wörd "dickishness"  :D ;D ::) :o

Bill Maher should be as hated as Rachel Maddow... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joxYLYD5eoQ&t=2m10s
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 05:32:19 PM by Martin Gisser »

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1329 on: June 29, 2018, 06:10:21 PM »
You guys, even the ones I argue with (except when you promote the undiluted Russian troll version of things), I have both respect and love (the agape kind) for you all. Just wanted to say that upfront, since I do tend to pop up to provide counter-information to one of the dominant narratives here. By the way, the MSM is ABC/CBS/NBC and Fox, which are available without a subscription in the US (and harder to get overseas). MSNBC is "cable news" and uses a variety of reporters with varying points of view, but so far the ones like Maddow/Hayes/McDonnell/Melber and many of the day people are excited by and impressed with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

ABC's The View (MSM) interviewed her today. (Whoopi Goldberg, Joy Behar, Meghan McCain multiracial women's panel) She was a little more frank about the difficulties of running against "the establishment". She is quite beautiful and extremely bright. I hope she can keep her focus when she runs up against the grinder that is US politics!

I tried really hard to find unbiased sources about Assange, which is why I picked the fabulous New Yorker long read and Laura Poitras as sources, hoping you would not dismiss it out of hand, without reading. As I said before, I was a fan of Assange until he went rogue and helped give us Trump (the evidence is quite circumstantial if you follow it). He hates the Clintons, understandably, as Hillary in particular is no doubt partly responsible for his difficult outsider status, but that's no excuse for making the world a much worse place out of revenge. Anyone confined indoors in the Uruguayan embassy can be excused for paranoia, but when that paranoia goes rogue and puts the world at risk, it's no longer heroic.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 09:23:19 PM by Susan Anderson »

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1330 on: June 29, 2018, 06:27:25 PM »
My biggest criticism of Assange is that he has a big ego, but at the same time I'm aware of the fact it's usually this type of person that is willing to take on the powers that be. As Frank Zappa says, the meek will inherit nothing.

Either way, he shouldn't be locked up in that embassy. No journalist should be. 

And the fact that Democrats used to love him when he exposed how the establishment screws the people while war criminal Bush was in power, but flipped and hated him when he did the same with war criminal Obama, is an example of the problem, the hurdle that the American people is facing if it wants to come clean.

Speaking of which, I saw this picture somewhere that makes me sick to my stomach:



There you have it, in a nutshell.

I hope you will take a moment to put this picture in perspective. Allowing hatred and intolerance to make you "sick to your stomach" because the Obamas and Bushes became friendly over time is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Trump is your mirror image in this, providing undiluted hatred for Obama to govern many of his actions. It explains a lot, that you see things in such black and white.

Just to be clear, I still hate what Bush Jr. did. The one who made me nauseous was Reagan. But there are very few people who are wholly evil. IMNSHO Trump belongs to that exclusive club.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-finds-unlikely-support-group-000000885.html

Quote
the complicated relationship between Obama, who powered his two history-making runs for the White House with relentless assaults on his predecessor, and Bush. Behind the scenes, the Democrat has found his erstwhile target to be a likable member of the world’s most exclusive support group, according to current and former aides to both men.

Obama and Bush had come together a few times before — on somber occasions like the aftermath of the January 2010 earthquake that devastated Haiti and solemn events like the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and the May 2015 commemoration of the civil rights march at Selma, Ala. They’ve also swapped jokes at more casual ceremonies like the unveiling of the former president’s official portrait at the White House.
....
Shared experiences of being cloistered at 1600 Pennsylvania — which successive presidents have half-jokingly described as the crown jewel of the federal prison system — or battling Congress and enduring the news media have helped the fraternity of former presidents to forge a special bond.

“We’ve been called ‘the world’s most exclusive club,’ and we do have a pretty nice clubhouse. But the truth is, our club is more like a support group,” Obama said at the April 2013 dedication of Bush’s presidential library. Whoever sits in the Oval Office feels kinship to “leaders from both parties who have taken on the momentous challenges and felt the enormous weight of a nation on their shoulders.”

Obama, who portrayed Bush in 2008 as misleading the country into the Iraq War and blundering into the Great Recession, also had warm words specifically for the former president.
....
Bush directed his aides to ensure a smooth transition into power for Team Obama. Aides to the incoming president recall being surprised at how un-ideological the short-timers were, how helpful they were with everything from navigating the warren of offices in the West Wing and the nearby Old Executive Office Buildings to the idiosyncracies of the White House mess, or guiding them through the refurbished Situation Room.

“He couldn’t have been nicer to my team and family when we made the transition in, and I always had a good friendly relationship with him,” Obama told NBC’s “Today” show in April 2013.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 10:03:08 AM by Susan Anderson »

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1331 on: June 29, 2018, 06:31:25 PM »
By the way, Democrats didn't used to love Assange. We are a big country with a wide range of positions. Some of the more liberal were pleased with the early exposures from Anonymous and Assange, and most of this stripe continue to admire Snowden, who hasn't chosen to promote and foist on the good/bad/middling people of the US and the world one of the biggest monsters in history.

Putting politics, which is complicated and involves a wide range of problems and solutions, into the basket of love and hatred is how we got here.

That's why so many of us admire Buddha, Jesus (of the gospels, not the phony one now current with "evangicals" who are no such athing), Gandhi, Mandela, Martin Luther King Jr., and other heroes who try to show us that hatred makes things worse.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1332 on: June 29, 2018, 06:52:05 PM »
"War criminal Bush Jr." == "War criminal Obama"

A paradigm of the short-circuit thinking that helps empower Trump. Yes, this equation is a sinister tool of Trumpist propaganda. Where the "progressive" left meets the nutjob right: Evil Obama...

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1333 on: June 29, 2018, 08:01:39 PM »
Let's continue this part of the conversation when 10 years from now Trump and Obama are hugging.  :P ;)
The enemy is within
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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1334 on: June 29, 2018, 08:15:47 PM »
Former and current presidents worked together to work on AIDS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Emergency_Plan_for_AIDS_Relief Also Haiti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Bush_Haiti_Fund

Here's a less biased take on the inner conflicts of reality and Obama's ideals. Assuming good people don't have enemies and should be unable to tolerate opposition or the political diversity is divided into good and evil without compromise gives you Trump. Trump doesn't compromise, he wants absolute power and no opposition, just flattery. Putin is good at that. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/06/18/witnessing-the-obama-presidency-from-start-to-finish Witnessing the Obama Presidency, from Start to Finish: Ben Rhodes was the President’s speechwriter, foreign-policy adviser, and confidant. His book records the Administration’s struggle to shape its own narrative.

He goes into some depth about the military problems they faced. It just isn't all that simple. The simplest summary I ever saw (I've lost the source) goes like this:

We went in, boots and all, to Iraq: result, bloody, dangerous, expensive mess
We tried to help in Libya:  result, bloody, dangerous, expensive mess
We stayed out of Syria:  result, bloody, dangerous, expensive mess

Quote
Rhodes drafted a speech for Obama to give in Cairo in June of 2009, outlining the difficulties with the Muslim world and promising a new start. “It expressed what Obama believed and where he wanted to go, the world that should be,” Rhodes writes. Eighteen months later, the Arab Spring began. Rhodes quotes a Palestinian-born woman telling him that Obama was its inspiration: “The young people saw him, a black man as president of America, someone who looked like them. And they thought, why not me?” A more seasoned adviser might have been skeptical, but Rhodes lets this dubious claim stand. His firsthand experience of the rest of the world came from the huge crowds that he saw through bulletproof glass lining the route of Obama’s motorcade in Lima and in Hiroshima, from the young people who posed earnest questions at town-hall meetings in Ramallah and Mumbai. He took them as evidence of the tide of progress.
....
“The supporting characters”—Mitch McConnell, Vladimir Putin, Egyptian generals, Libyan warlords, reactionary forces that had no stake in Obama’s success—were in fact forces of opposition, and they weren’t just missing; they were gathering strength. You get the sense that Rhodes, and perhaps Obama, too, wasn’t ready for them. Relentless Republican obstruction didn’t fit with Obama’s tale of there being no red or blue America; rising chaos and nationalism were out of tune with his hymn of walls falling. In Libya, civil war killed thousands of people and left much of the country ungoverned and vulnerable to terrorists, and the U.S., as usual, had no plan or desire to deal with the aftermath of intervention. But Rhodes took the criticism that followed as a sign of the absurdity of American politics: “I couldn’t reconcile how much doing the right thing didn’t seem to matter. . . . I thought it was right to save thousands of Libyans from Gaddafi, but we were now being second-guessed.”

The failure of the supporting cast to join the march of progress came as a kind of irrational affront: how could they be so impervious to the appeal of Obama’s example and words?

TerryM

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1335 on: June 30, 2018, 05:01:44 AM »
Susan
Do you think that Benjamin actually believed that his boss stole Gaddafi's Gold and destroyed the most prosperous country in Africa for the good of the citizenry? or do you think he was just trying to cover up a monstrous international crime?


He's either very stupid, very loyal, or very devious.
He doesn't appear stupid to my eye.
Terry

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1336 on: July 01, 2018, 08:03:48 PM »
Just imagine your whole city or village refused to vote. Not just refuse to vote but setup roadblocks to prevent the government from even opening a polling location.
https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-06-30/indigenous-mexicans-spurn-presidential-vote-blockades-bulldozers

"The politicians haven't done anything besides enrich themselves and they've left us behind," said Antonio Arriola, a member of a recently-created Indigenous council that has petitioned the Mexican government for autonomy.

After word spread on Friday that local party bosses may try to deliver ballots in their personal cars, Indigenous leaders said they would use bulldozers to dig a trench in the main road to strengthen their blockade, a tactic already employed in a nearby town."

Let's see how the new president of Mexico, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, deals with this.
The previous government would have sent in the troops to crush this type of activity. This time I think it's different. I'm hoping he is more like Uruguay

"Latin American leftists need not look far to find a model to emulate: Uruguay. It exemplifies the best of the Pink Tide without its excesses. Frente Amplio, or Broad Front, a coalition of left-wing parties in power since 2005, has put the country at the vanguard of social change by legalizing abortion, same-sex marriage, and, most famously, recreational marijuana. For these reasons alone, in 2013 The Economist chose “liberal and fun-loving” Uruguay for its first ever “country of the year” award.
Less known accomplishments include being one of only two countries in Latin America that enjoy the status of “high income” (alongside Chile), reducing poverty from around 40 percent to less than 12 percent from 2005 to 2014, and steering clear of corruption scandals. According to Transparency International, Uruguay is the least corrupt country in Latin America, and ranks among the world’s 25 least corrupt nations. The country also scored a near perfect 100 in Freedom House’s 2018 ranking of civil and political freedoms, virtually tied with Canada, and far ahead of the United States and neighboring Argentina and Brazil."
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1337 on: July 09, 2018, 08:20:12 AM »
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Pmt111500

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1338 on: July 09, 2018, 09:26:25 AM »
Hashtag #OMAGA is of course copycatting the stable genius brain of Drumpf campaign manager. My version of the same would be #MUGA, and suddenly it's doable, at least partially. https://erimaassa.blogspot.com/2017/11/make-us-great-again.html?m=1

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1339 on: July 13, 2018, 07:20:32 PM »
I was surprised to see that despicable Joe Crowley guy be so sportsmanlike after losing to Ocasio-Cortez in the NY primary, him dedicating a Bruce Springsteen song to him and everything. But now this:



If it is what it looks like, it's a perfect example of what it is Corporate Democrats do. They don't care about you, all they care about is their donors and the gravy train.

The media went nuts over Ocasio-Cortez. Will they take her side on this? Will they even report?
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sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1340 on: July 13, 2018, 07:58:50 PM »

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1341 on: July 13, 2018, 08:01:40 PM »
The media went nuts over Ocasio-Cortez.
She called herself a "democratic socialist". Which is self-harming bullshit. She is a social democrat, something quite mainstream in the rest of the world. -- Classical "progressive" Democrat: doing everything to harm progress.

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1342 on: July 13, 2018, 08:40:24 PM »
We love Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Enough with the pronounciamentos from on high. There are some complexities in the system based on a divided electoral process.

The villains in this piece are not the minority which no longer has a voice, which includes all Democrats, centrist and Democratic socialists (and word reversal is meaningless).

Republicans in office (bought and paid for), the Kochtopus, kitchen cabinet Fox, Breitbart, the Mercers, the Federalist Society, Adelson, they are the enemy. They urgently need defeating so we can begin to argue about universal health care, universal voting rights, and how to the trickle-up economy.

Insisting that only the more liberal wing of Democrats is entitled to a voice eliminates the chance over overcoming these monsters.

Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1343 on: July 13, 2018, 09:03:54 PM »
(and word reversal is meaningless)
Maybe for Americans, who have no idea of socialism vs. social safety...
But not here in Germany, where we have the classical mainstream Social Democratic Party (SPD) - plus a smaller party which was called Party of Democratic Socialism (PDS) until 2005. The PDS came out of former communist East Germany's Socialist Unity Party (SED).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Democratic_Party_of_Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_of_Democratic_Socialism_(Germany)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Unity_Party_of_Germany

Says my FB friend Prof. Fortunato:
Quote
Since the radical right's understanding of capitalism and markets is at best at the level of the mid-term in a freshman course in economics (none of them seem to have even read the chapters on public goods and externalities/spillovers, yet many of them parrot far more advanced "public choice" rhetoric they heard somewhere), they are now going on the attack against Democratic candidates who espouse (themselves with some ignorance) socialist tendencies. Some are social democrats, but they call themselves democratic socialists because it sounds better? I don't know. I have yet to hear any of them advance a platform that includes the nationalization of any substantial assets or infrastructure. If you are not going to even nationalize the trains, much less health care (not health care INSURANCE), you should really stop calling yourself a socialist.

So now we will have social democrats (center-left in civilized nations) calling themselves "socialists" and radical right wing lunatics screaming and spitting blood about socialism, which they understand as well as they understand nuclear physics.

For the intellectually delicate, the upcoming campaigns are going to get exhausting. Our red editing pencils are going to be worn to the nubs.

Our very lives are at stake, so we will just have to shake it off, and load up on supplies.
(My emph.) https://www.facebook.com/michael.fortunato.100/posts/1877662345625256
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:09:14 PM by Martin Gisser »

Neven

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1344 on: July 13, 2018, 09:19:54 PM »
If what that guy in the video I posted says, is true, what do you think of Jim Crowley? Doesn't it look as if he's staying on the ballot on purpose to take votes away from Ocasio-Cortez (whom he said he would support), so that maybe she doesn't make it to Congress after all?
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Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1345 on: July 13, 2018, 09:31:16 PM »
If what that guy in the video I posted says, is true, what do you think of Jim Crowley? Doesn't it look as if he's staying on the ballot on purpose to take votes away from Ocasio-Cortez (whom he said he would support), so that maybe she doesn't make it to Congress after all?

It's complicated, and my thing about the local election rules was a shortcut. It's mostly the fault of the system, and feelings are hot on both sides. The comment section on this was a real study. It's important to set aside personal opinions and resentment and look at the larger picture. Fact is, only 12% (if I remember correctly) of the electorate voted in the primary, and she won with a very small number of total votes. I find her totally charming and brilliant, but this is a real problem (undervoting, and the system). I think you're allowed 10 free articles a month, and if you click through to comments and "readers' picks" you'll see that people are hotheaded and opinionated, just like here. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/12/opinion/editorials/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-crowley.html Ocasio-Cortez Isn’t Spelled C-r-o-w-l-e-y: New York’s arcane election laws keep a defeated incumbent on the ballot.

Making it about personal resentments kind of misses the point, which is lack of information and resentments driving a failure to communicate.

I have to do some other things and won't be back anytime soon, but since I'm here this is my best balanced opinion. Thanks for asking.

Susan Anderson

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1346 on: July 13, 2018, 09:34:01 PM »
@Martin Gisser: amongst us pointy-headed types, and across the "pond" I'm sure you're right. But given general ignorance in the US about European socialism, getting in the weeds on this is just indulging in argument for the sake of argument. Again: note I said I'm sure you're right!

sidd

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1347 on: July 13, 2018, 10:18:44 PM »
In depth interview with Ocasio-Cortez at the Jacobin:

"Because no one is going to vote for the Republican Party, but there is such tight control over who the Democratic nominee is in any given situation that New Yorkers are forced to vote for whatever Democrat is on the ballot in November. Especially because our primary system is so broken, it is so underreported on, deliberately. People don’t want attention paid to Democratic primaries."

“We’ve lost a thousand seats, we’ve lost the House, we’ve lost the Senate. We have lost the presidency in an election that we most certainly should not have lost. Are we going to continue to commit to voting for the same people, the same strategy, and the same plan?”

" “Trump is a terrifying demagogue, and he’s going to be a disaster for our democracy.” Guess what: Trump is a terrifying demagogue and he is a disaster for our democracy, but we lost the election on that narrative. "

"I’m not going to allow this movement to get hijacked by an energy of antagonism when what we are really trying to advance is a positive and progressive vision for America’s future."

"Money in politics has been so influential because there’s a lot of laziness on the ground. A lot of these “unassailable” political machines are shells — they do not have strong turnout. They’re decrepit."

"A lot of these Democratic — especially state Democratic — parties are asleep at the wheel. They’ve been kind of taken over, as, like, these little legal forms of money laundering units. "

"The story that I always told at these little living rooms was the story of The Wizard of Oz. We built our little ragtag group, and we walked down this yellow brick road, and we got to the Emerald City. We knocked down the door and we walked in, and there’s this huge intimidating behemoth, but it’s really just a guy behind the curtain. "

"A lot of consultants make 10 percent on every television ad that they place for a candidate. They’re not going to recommend things that win, they’re going to recommend things that earn commission. "

"knocking doors wins, phone banking wins, direct voter contact wins. But it doesn’t make people money."

Read the whole thing:

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/07/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-interview-democratic-primary/

sidd


Martin Gisser

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1348 on: July 13, 2018, 10:25:01 PM »
@Susan: I know you know I'm right :)

But I'm not hair splitting. IF the Dems seriously want to win, they sure should not use the wörd "socialism". Not just because it's wrong, nope, it makes the Banana Republicans go mad and just gives them ammo to fire at the Dems. "Socialism" is political self-mutilation. It is time the left and the Dems stop doing this to themselves.

Plus, wouldn't social Democrat be a nice distinction from corporate Democrat?

And, they should more often use the wörd
"Banana Republicans"
for that describes that party perfectly. (I learnt it yesterday from the Strzok hearing.)

ivica

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Re: The problem of Corporate Democrats and how to kick them out
« Reply #1349 on: July 13, 2018, 10:57:15 PM »
Superdelegates OUTRAGED That Voters Will "Disenfranchise" Them