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NevB

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2000 on: December 08, 2017, 08:34:38 AM »
Flynn pushed trillion-dollar Russian-Saudi nuclear energy scheme while at White House.

https://thinkprogress.org/flynn-pushed-trillion-dollar-russian-saudi-nuclear-energy-scheme-while-at-white-house-f9da6ca259ca/

Quote
Retired Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn kept pushing a massive nuclear power deal involving Saudi Arabia and Russia even after he (briefly) became president Donald Trump’s national security advisor, the Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday.

Also on Wednesday, the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released letters from executives confirming that Flynn traveled to the Mideast in 2015 “to meet with foreign leaders about a proposal to partner with Russia in a scheme to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia.” Flynn was advising the executives on the deal.

I haven't seen this covered in this thread as it involves Flynn dealing with Russia I think it's relevant.

Flynn's deal with the Russians to build reactors in the middle east required the sanctions to be dropped, this was strong motivation for "collusion" with the Russians.

Where specifically the collusion would be the agreement to lift sanctions to allow this deal to proceed while Flynn was to be paid millions. I would guess making this type of deal before the inauguration would have to be highly illegal?

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2001 on: December 08, 2017, 10:00:26 AM »
Please don't post Jimmy Dole any more. He is a far-right-wing conspiracy nut dressed in far-left-wing clothes.

Rob, I take care to post only Jimmy Dore videos when I think he makes a good point. Otherwise I'd be posting his videos more often. I don't think all of his videos are of the same quality. For instance, I don't particularly like the one with Bill Maher that Terry posted.

However, in this case, he explains his theory that too much media coverage of every fart in Russiagate is helping Trump, because it distracts from his and the GOP's horrid policies (and those offering better policies). He literally says: You can cover that story, you're supposed to cover that story (ie the Flynn stuff). And then his sidekick Ron Placone says: It just doesn't need to be about 15 headlines to 1. Dore: I'm not saying don't cover that, we're all saying cover that story, but you don't cover it at the exclusion of stuff like this that is actually happening, that affects people's lives right now.

That's why I asked about the ratio between coverage of Russiagate vs everything else.

Don't worry, I won't post too many Dore videos, and if you're lucky, YouTube will either de-monetize all his videos (and of other progressive political commentators), or simply ban him, along with Twitter and Facebook, because that's the direction the US is heading in anyway.

Or maybe Dore will get his head straight, follow the establishment narrative, get some real advertisers (wink, wink, know what I mean) and be rewarded with a fellowship at the Atlantic Council.
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2002 on: December 08, 2017, 01:03:34 PM »
Rob:

I find your line "He is a far-right-wing conspiracy nut dressed in far-left-wing clothes" interesting.  I don't watch enough Jimmy Dore to know.....but...

I was looking at a Jimmy Dore clip that was on YouTube last night.....and low and behold the advertisement before the clip started was for a "concealed gun holster".  THAT advertiser certainly agrees with your assessment... 🔫
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2003 on: December 08, 2017, 02:01:22 PM »
Anyone thinking that there is too much coverage of RussiaGate now.....are going to have a very rough new year.  It is clear to me that we are JUST STARTING to get into the meat of things....and there are SEVERAL avenues that are set to "explode" from a coverage standpoint.

It is clear that Mueller has SEVERAL people with their balls in a vice....and he is now beginning to squeeze the vice.  Get out the political body bags.....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2004 on: December 08, 2017, 11:17:06 PM »
Anyone thinking that there is too much coverage of RussiaGate now.....are going to have a very rough new year.

If the theory that excessive media coverage of Russiagate is actually helping Trump and distracting from his horrid policies (and people offering real alternatives), is correct, everyone is going to have not just one, but several rough years. Especially the people that don't have it as good as 98% of this forum's members, which is, what, half the US population?

But let's not discuss that theory. Or the question what Trump needs to be replaced with. Or the clear-cut collusion with Saudi Arabia and Israel.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2005 on: December 08, 2017, 11:26:25 PM »
Rob, I take care to post only Jimmy Dore videos when I think he makes a good point.

That is my same position regarding the Palmer Report articles that I link to; so it is not surprising that we each get negative reactions from different segments of the band of ASIF posting brothers & sisters. ;)
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2006 on: December 08, 2017, 11:32:41 PM »
I always deal in FACTS.  Facts and history can teach us A LOT.

FACT:  In talking with several people that were 30 - 40 during Watergate....it was ALL that anyone talked about.  It was ALL ENCOMPASSING.

It isn't that I WANT RussiaGate to be all encompassing.  But history usually repeats or rhymes.  Which is also why many of the errors made in WaterGate by Nixon, are happening once again.

Neven.....if you watched the clip that I posted regarding "Watergate Revisited"....you would have expected much of what has happened already....and perhaps what types of things will play out over the next 12+ months.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2007 on: December 08, 2017, 11:44:48 PM »
Apparently....Mueller had a nice "little chat" with Hope Hicks...

FOR TWO FULL DAYS.  Gulp...😳😳😳

Bob questioned someone who is 29......and apparently she is as prepared as a "coffee cup" for her position....FOR TWO FULL DAYS.  Ya' think folks in the White House are going to be a little nervous this weekend?😱

Merry Christmas Donnie.  You may want to look for someone else to iron your slacks.  But where you're going you'll be wearing pin stripes.....and they won't need ironing. 👮
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2008 on: December 09, 2017, 12:29:45 AM »
I always deal in FACTS.  Facts and history can teach us A LOT.

You cannot know facts, because you are not God. So, what is even more important than facts, is context and a view of the world/life to fit the whole spectrum of possible facts/truths in. Because then you can think about strategy and shaping the future, instead of being fixated on the past and the present (like the media wants you to).

This isn't a game, and Trump's head most certainly isn't the prize. The prize is what Trump's replacement will be, and this is also determined by the way Trump is brought down. I fear that Russia-Russia-Russia 24/7 (tick tock) isn't the right way to bring him down.

Talk about what you stand for, not about what you're against or who you're not.
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2009 on: December 09, 2017, 12:54:08 AM »
I always deal in FACTS.  Facts and history can teach us A LOT.

FACT: In talking with several people that were 30 - 40 during Watergate....it was ALL that anyone talked about.  It was ALL ENCOMPASSING.

Counterfact:
Though I was but a lad of 28 when All the President's Men hit the bookshelves I can assure you that I had much better things to talk about.


I was talking about the oil shortage that only allowed me to fill my tank on even numbered days.
The ridiculous cost of filling one's tank was quite a popular topic of discussion.
In California of course the availability of psychedelics, when and where the next protest would be held, and how to screw with Governor Reagan were hot topics.
We were winning the war against the war in Vietnam, and everyone talked,sang and chanted about that, and of course ending the draft was on everyone's tongues.
It was the era of free love so getting laid took up lots of our time, and our conversation.


Tricky Dicky's sideshow was discussed, but other subjects pushed it to the background.
As we said at the time - Things were Happening -
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2010 on: December 09, 2017, 01:54:04 AM »
As Rachel Maddow often says, we are all tired of all the Russia entanglements, the corruption, the ineptitude, the stupid tweets — things that in any other administration would long ago have led to impeachment and/or resignations.  The danger is that because it keeps happening, and keeps happening, and keeps happening... that we are no longer shocked.  Like a repetitive beating, we get dulled to it.  But we MUST keep learning more about it, keep reminding ourselves that this cluster of an administration Is Not Normal.  We can’t afford to feel too tired to not listen, to not care any more — because then evil wins.  And democracy is lost.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2011 on: December 09, 2017, 06:46:53 AM »
However, in this case, he explains his theory that too much media coverage of every fart in Russiagate is helping Trump, because it distracts from his and the GOP's horrid policies (and those offering better policies). He literally says: You can cover that story, you're supposed to cover that story (ie the Flynn stuff). And then his sidekick Ron Placone says: It just doesn't need to be about 15 headlines to 1. Dore: I'm not saying don't cover that, we're all saying cover that story, but you don't cover it at the exclusion of stuff like this that is actually happening, that affects people's lives right now.

Again, the 15-to-1 headlines was on a cherry-picked date (the Flynn guilty plea). And Jimmy did not tell us that it was cherry-picked. That's not fair and not balanced, and reduces Jimmy's argument to a smearing effort on MSNBC and the Mueller investigation.

But let's take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
Maybe when you are outside the US it is hard to see, but with the Trump presidency there has just been a hostile takeover of our Democracy by the billionaire class.

We are really struggling here to get the democratic process to continue to work as the founding fathers intended (by the people and for the people). From the three branches of government, two of them are already hijacked : the executive branch is in the hands of billionaire (Trump), and Congress is in the hands of the billionaire donors to the Republican party Senate and House members.
The last branch (the judiciary) is hanging by a thin thread. The supreme court has a Trump-appointed new member, and the DoJ under Sessions may already be under billionaire control.

The only thing that separates the US from becoming a full fledged Oligarchy (similar to Russia) is the Special Counsel by Robert Mueller.

It is essential for our democracy that Mueller can continue his work and hold those in power accountable. If Mueller fails, our democracy is doomed.

THAT is why the Mueller investigation is so important and deserves ample air time on all news outlets.

This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2012 on: December 09, 2017, 09:11:45 AM »
I always deal in FACTS.  Facts and history can teach us A LOT.

You cannot know facts, because you are not God. So, what is even more important than facts, is context and a view of the world/life to fit the whole spectrum of possible facts/truths in. Because then you can think about strategy and shaping the future, instead of being fixated on the past and the present (like the media wants you to).

This isn't a game, and Trump's head most certainly isn't the prize. The prize is what Trump's replacement will be, and this is also determined by the way Trump is brought down. I fear that Russia-Russia-Russia 24/7 (tick tock) isn't the right way to bring him down.

Talk about what you stand for, not about what you're against or who you're not.
Neven
I'm not sure that "FACTS", at a Divine level are even required.
Personally I'd settle for "reasonable", "logical", or even "sensible".


Is it "Reasonable" that if Russia and Trump were conspiring against Hillary, she'd would be the first to be aware of this?
Is it "Logical" that Trump and Putin would not go to great lengths to hide their activities from their supposed victim?
Is it "Sensible" to assume that Hillary would have the contacts within Russia to discover this "conspiracy"?


Is it "Reasonable" that Putin believed that he could swing the election to Trump?
Is it "Logical" to assume that in this case Occam's Razor is a logical fallacy?
Is it "Sensible" that Trump would place his future in Putin's hands?


We could do this all night long.


It is reasonable, logical and sensible to assume that Hillary lost the election to Trump because she was a terrible candidate who managed to lose even my support, and I'd been a solid Democrat for my whole life.


Now let's work on getting rid of the damn Republicans.
Terry


Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2013 on: December 09, 2017, 09:42:46 AM »
Here is a very good overview of exactly how the initial release of the Steele dossier about Russia meddling in the US election and Trump being compromised, got swamped out by other news (specifically the Access Hollywood tape and the Podesta email hack) within one hour, and second release was swamped by the FBI announcement of re-investigation of the Hillary Clinton email server issues. :

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/first-public-news-of-dossier-lost-amid-2016-bombshells-1112899139553

This is the very definition of a war-of-words, folks.
It is well worth the 6 minutes.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 09:57:18 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2014 on: December 09, 2017, 10:07:23 AM »
It is reasonable, logical and sensible to assume that Hillary lost the election to Trump because she was a terrible candidate who managed to lose even my support, and I'd been a solid Democrat for my whole life.

Seriously, Terry, what did Hillary ever do wrong to you ?
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2015 on: December 09, 2017, 12:59:02 PM »
But let's take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
Maybe when you are outside the US it is hard to see, but with the Trump presidency there has just been a hostile takeover of our Democracy by the billionaire class.

(...)

The only thing that separates the US from becoming a full fledged Oligarchy (similar to Russia) is the Special Counsel by Robert Mueller.

It is essential for our democracy that Mueller can continue his work and hold those in power accountable. If Mueller fails, our democracy is doomed.

THAT is why the Mueller investigation is so important and deserves ample air time on all news outlets.

Rob, in my view US democracy has been taken over by the billionaire class quite a while ago. Now, of course, the billionaire class isn't a unified whole (I don't believe in the NWO Illuminati conspiracies), so you might argue that there are good oligarchs and bad oligarchs. If the good oligarchs rule us, all is fine. You know, names like Gates, Soros, Bezos, Buffett, Musk, and so on. However if the bad oligarchs get into power, things are bad. I'm talking Mercer and the Kochs, etc.

I think that discussion is superfluous. A more important discussion is whether we want to be ruled by invisible kings, and if there is even such a thing as a good oligarch. Does that really lead to any good? I don't think so.

You see, the problem isn't the billionaires per se, but their money. Their money demands growth, and because that money is so powerful everything is geared towards that growth. Our culture, for instance, which almost entirely revolves around the consumption of goods and activities. Or our education systems which are set up in a way to get as many specialized producers as possible, so that they can consume as much as possible (how to become a good, happy person is something they can try to figure out in the little spare time they have). All of which leads to AGW and countless other societal and planetary threats.

I don't think Mueller can change that, or even wants to change that. He wouldn't have gotten as far as he has done, if he had strong principles and stood up to power. That's why I suspect his investigation is in fact a negotiation between the establishment oligarchs and the even more sociopath outsider faction of oligarchs, with Trump as its puppet/face. It's politics one level op from the politics that we, the small people, think we are engaged in. The oligarchs are trying to find a way to make this work, as their money stacks probably overlap a lot. And they're doing a good job so far. The whole nation is paralyzed by Trump's antics (with lots of help from the media), while insane policies are being pushed through at a faster pace than we were used to under Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama.

Giving so much attention to Russiagate and the Mueller investigation (which more and more shifts towards corruption, because the collusion is probably very hard to prove, or at least with Russia, the collusion with Saudi Arabia and Israel is blindingly obvious), actually detracts from your bigger picture. It obscures the context and the processes that has led to all of this and to more to come.

I'm not saying Russiagate shouldn't be covered, but not as a ratings amplifier for the media, or to draw attention away from other issues (both the Trump camp and the establishment are abusing it that way). What is important is that Trump is depicted as being part of the swamp/establishment, that everything he said and promised, was a lie. And then you present a real alternative.

Which brings me to this:

As Rachel Maddow often says, we are all tired of all the Russia entanglements, the corruption, the ineptitude, the stupid tweets — things that in any other administration would long ago have led to impeachment and/or resignations.  The danger is that because it keeps happening, and keeps happening, and keeps happening... that we are no longer shocked.  Like a repetitive beating, we get dulled to it.  But we MUST keep learning more about it, keep reminding ourselves that this cluster of an administration Is Not Normal.  We can’t afford to feel too tired to not listen, to not care any more — because then evil wins.  And democracy is lost.

I agree somewhat, but it's even more important to understand the processes that have led to all of this. The money stacks of the oligarchs demand that they become bigger at an exponential rate, which is why they control so much of US politics (rest of the world not that much better). But someone has to pay to make those stacks bigger, and 90% of the population is paying so much that their health and happiness are suffering. People are seriously hurting. Maybe not most of the ASIF members (or not on a material level), but the rest of society does.

Some of these people are insane, bigoted deplorables, but a lot of them aren't. And these people feel ignored and betrayed, and they think that the only way they can make a statement is by voting for ridiculous things like Brexit and Trump. Because they don't trust the establishment any longer. Obama put an end to that.

So that offers possibilities, and unfortunately the Trump faction got in first and so things will get even worse for a while (not that anything was getting better). But it also means a new round of opportunities, because Trump will ultimately fail. And so in my view it's more important to ask the question 'what do we replace Trump with?' than to say 'we must replace that vulgar idiot, at any price'.

You can't replace him with the establishment and incremental lesser-evil politics. It's too slow and actually obstructs systemic changes, which are needed to stave off things like AGW. People like Sanders and Corbyn are showing the way, but we have to all get involved to make that work. And for that we need to understand the context and the processes, where the hurt is coming from, what is causing it, and then speak out about that first and foremost.

It's the stacks of oligarch money (mind you, not the rich themselves, Biden had a point there, but their money) that demands perpetual, exponential growth at the detriment of the majority's well-being, and that's how every empire has collapsed so far. But we have the Internet, vast amounts of scientific knowledge, and robotics/AI (that, though scary, can also be used for good).

And that's the reason why I keep coming back to these discussions: because I think that ASIF members have the intelligence, time and resources to be leading in this, to spread the awareness. We can do so much more than just sit here gossiping about the 'facts' that are thrown to us as crumbs, going 'tick tock, Mueller tough guy has got the moron by the balls, tick tock, just like Watergate, one more year to go, tick tock, tick tock'.

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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2016 on: December 09, 2017, 01:05:24 PM »
Rob, I take care to post only Jimmy Dore videos when I think he makes a good point.

That is my same position regarding the Palmer Report articles that I link to; so it is not surprising that we each get negative reactions from different segments of the band of ASIF posting brothers & sisters. ;)

Fair enough, but one small difference: Palmer Report purports to bring exclusive/speculative news, while Jimmy Dore mostly analyses/rants about what's known to share his perspective. He's not perfect (says so himself), but he's 100% not a right-wing troll disguised as a lefty. And he isn't stupid either. Stand-up comedians seldom are. Or at least the good ones.  ;)
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2017 on: December 09, 2017, 01:15:52 PM »
Why would be voting for the Brexit be ridiculous ? I'm not from the UK, but we have a population of 11 million people. And we have at least 300 000 people a year moving in from the rest of the world. Most of them from Africa and the Middle-East. And that will continue, because what will stop it ?  You let in one,and as soon as all documents are ok the rest of the family comes.  We all know that this is going to end in a complete disaster.  So why is it ridiculous ?

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2018 on: December 09, 2017, 04:27:27 PM »
Rob:

Your point about Mueller and the FBI being a firewall against the US becoming just like Russia is ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON.

It is becoming clearer and clearer that Donnie is acting like a "normal authoritarian":

1). Bash and delegitimize the press....except for that narrow source that is in his pocket (FOX, Breitbart, Wall Street Journal....owned by Murdoch who owns FOX).

2). Bash and deligitimize any of the security services that don't bow down and do what he says.

3). Continue to bully anyone who opposes his ideas.

4). Trump has already stated that he thinks the constitution is out of date, and that he would want changes to the freedom of speech AND freedom of the press.  It should be no surprise to ANYONE that he continues to work THROUGH and WITH FOX News.  Clearly the statement at the bottom of my posts shows my feelings of how Donnie and FOX are intertwined.  Sean Hannity believes there is a very good chance that he is on tape with Paul Manafort or others....anyone that has watched Hannity over the last several days since Flynn's flip can see.

FOX is now working extremely hard to discredit Mueller....and they are getting help from a HANDFULL of congressmen, Breitbart, and the Wall Street Journal.

Strap in...because we will continue get into much deeper waters in the months ahead. 

It has been clear to me and many others what Trump wants...and NEEDS...and he needs the type of control and authority that Putin has.  But Trump CONTINUES to move in that direction. He continues to look and act more and more like Putin....and as the noose tightens his actions will likely become even more "bullying" and authoritarian in nature.  He is in too deep now...the only way out is with a bulldozer.


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2019 on: December 09, 2017, 04:47:31 PM »
Fair enough, but one small difference: Palmer Report purports to bring exclusive/speculative news, while Jimmy Dore mostly analyses/rants about what's known to share his perspective. He's not perfect (says so himself), but he's 100% not a right-wing troll disguised as a lefty. And he isn't stupid either. Stand-up comedians seldom are. Or at least the good ones.  ;)

First, I note that Bill Palmer of 'The Palmer Report' (TPR) is basically a Hillary Clinton supporter who developed the progenitor of TPR (the Daily News Bin) to counter misinformation generated (largely by Team Trump) about Hillary during the 2016 election (see quote by Dave Van Zandt below).  Thus TPR is actually a left-center website with somewhat outlandish titles for its reports that are based largely on indirect logic (labelled as confirmation bias by Dennis Kelley, see the quote below) rather than by direct logic.  Thus TPR only appears to be an extremist website when starting with a bias against Corporate Democrats, and a populist desire to 'drain the swamp'.

Second, it therefore should not be surprising that most of the critics of TPR come from critics of Hillary Clinton and Corporate Democrats, and by their use of 'keystone dominoes' strategy to undermine confidence in some links in TPR indirect logic, and by demanding the use of only 'proven' facts suitable for direct logic.

Finally, I note that almost all of science was built using indirect logic (via the scientific method, while standing on the shoulders of giants [aka prior consensus science]) and only subsequently confirmed by the use of direct logic (to produce new consensus science).  Similarly, climate change is so complex that scientific progress is typically made using indirect logic, which is later confirmed by direct logic.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/palmer-report/

Quote from Dave Van Zandt: "… Bill Palmer used to run the Daily News Bin, and it was basically a pro-Hillary Clinton “news site.” It was out there to counter misinformation."

Quote from Dennis Kelley: "The Palmer Report (TPR) is a liberally biased news site / blog that deals more in confirmation bias than in actual reporting. Confirmation bias generally consists of taking a set of facts, often unrelated, and building a web of conjecture around them in order to present a specific point of view as opposed to the actual facts. While confirmation bias may not be, technically, fake news, the sensational nature of this type of reporting often does more harm than good."

Best,
ASLR  ;D
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 07:19:05 PM by AbruptSLR »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2020 on: December 09, 2017, 04:49:32 PM »
Regarding Paul Manafort and RussiaGate...prosecution turned over copies of 4,000 documents to the defense attorneys.  The financial entanglements of Manafort and Trump will be mind boggling.  I wouldn't even hazard to guess how many there will be for Donnie Sr and Jr.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2021 on: December 09, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »
One reads about how the important stuff on AGW, arctic sea ice and .... gets sidelined by the media's other priorities, e.g. Russiagate?
People ask - why?
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2022 on: December 09, 2017, 07:29:15 PM »
One reads about how the important stuff on AGW, arctic sea ice and .... gets sidelined by the media's other priorities, e.g. Russiagate?
People ask - why?

Russiagate can serve as a focus issue to help sustain the resistance against alt-right populists (aka nationalists in the USA like Team Trump) by globalists (aka Corporate Democrats etc) in order to say help deliver control of the US Congress back to the Democratic Party in the 2018 mid-term elections.  Alt-right populists tend to support anti-climate change policies (e.g. Trump's assault on climate science and regulations) and thus a successful culmination of Mueller's investigation (leading to indictments of Trump and Pence) by the Summer of 2018 might help with the fight against climate change (particularly if a Democrat becomes the Speaker of the House by mid-January 2019 and both Trump and Pence are impeached shortly thereafter).
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2023 on: December 09, 2017, 07:31:41 PM »
One reads about how the important stuff on AGW, arctic sea ice and .... gets sidelined by the media's other priorities, e.g. Russiagate?
People ask - why?

I don't think global warming gets sidelined by Russiagate nearly as much as it gets sidelined by the Kardashians, football, the iPhone X, and the next episode of Game of Thrones, or whatever.

People who care about the Earth aren't going to be derailed by Russiagate news.

But the focus on Russiagate has helped derail the White House from pursuing other malignant policies.  Not one major legislative package passed so far, though the tax monstrosity is getting close.  That's an astonishing fact, with both houses of Congress being in R hands.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2024 on: December 09, 2017, 07:54:12 PM »
As RussiaGate continues to pick up momentum in the coming days/weeks/months...you may want to spend some time following Seth Abramson in Twitter @SethAbramson.



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2025 on: December 09, 2017, 08:36:33 PM »
One reads about how the important stuff on AGW, arctic sea ice and .... gets sidelined by the media's other priorities, e.g. Russiagate?
People ask - why?

Russiagate can serve as a focus issue to help sustain the resistance against alt-right populists (aka nationalists in the USA like Team Trump) by globalists (aka Corporate Democrats etc) in order to say help deliver control of the US Congress back to the Democratic Party in the 2018 mid-term elections.  Alt-right populists tend to support anti-climate change policies (e.g. Trump's assault on climate science and regulations) and thus a successful culmination of Mueller's investigation (leading to indictments of Trump and Pence) by the Summer of 2018 might help with the fight against climate change (particularly if a Democrat becomes the Speaker of the House by mid-January 2019 and both Trump and Pence are impeached shortly thereafter).
So you believe that Mueller's revelations will be so stunning that the Republican Senate will vote out both their Republican President, also their Republican Vice-President. The odds of this occurring are vanishingly small, I'd say a complete impossibility except for the scientific nature of this website.
If Trump is ever impeached, it will be when, and if, Pence decides that he can do so successfully, and that he will be able to bask in the glory of having brought Trump's Evil to an end.


Research the history of dual impeachments in America. It won't take long, and they'll all be found in the fiction section.


Which Democrat are you supporting in your own state? There is less than 1 year left and they all need your help. Perhaps Californian democratic donors could spread their largesse to neighboring states who aren't so solidly blue.
The DNC has apparently decided to go with corporate donations. Wish them well and save your donations for the governorships and assembly races that need to be won.


Time is not on your side.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2026 on: December 09, 2017, 08:58:39 PM »
One reads about how the important stuff on AGW, arctic sea ice and .... gets sidelined by the media's other priorities, e.g. Russiagate?
People ask - why?

Russiagate can serve as a focus issue to help sustain the resistance against alt-right populists (aka nationalists in the USA like Team Trump) by globalists (aka Corporate Democrats etc) in order to say help deliver control of the US Congress back to the Democratic Party in the 2018 mid-term elections.  Alt-right populists tend to support anti-climate change policies (e.g. Trump's assault on climate science and regulations) and thus a successful culmination of Mueller's investigation (leading to indictments of Trump and Pence) by the Summer of 2018 might help with the fight against climate change (particularly if a Democrat becomes the Speaker of the House by mid-January 2019 and both Trump and Pence are impeached shortly thereafter).
So you believe that Mueller's revelations will be so stunning that the Republican Senate will vote out both their Republican President, also their Republican Vice-President.

If you read my statement carefully, it says that if Mueller indicts (not convicts) both Trump & Pence in the summer of 2018 then the US Congress (which consists of both the House and the Senate) might fall under Democrat control.  So in early 2019 it could be a Democrat controlled House that impeaches both Trump & Pence followed by a Democrat controlled Senate removing them from office (if they don't resign first), with the then Democrat Speaker of the House becoming POTUS. 

Personally, I believe that the most likely pathway forward ends in a global socio-economic collapse between 2050 and 2060 even if the left-wing populists take control of the Democratic Party after 2018.

Your ad hominem rant about California's largess is ignored.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2027 on: December 09, 2017, 09:35:51 PM »

If Trump is ever impeached, it will be when, and if, Pence decides that he can do so successfully, and that he will be able to bask in the glory of having brought Trump's Evil to an end.

Terry

Not at all.  Pence is doing nothing to bring Trump down.  Pence is not nearly as implicated as others of Team Trump, but he's not squeaky-clean, either.

I'm quite confident that Pence was never lied to by Flynn, but that Pence played along with that story, being complicit in a conspiracy to cover up the whole Kremlin connection.  If that's the limit of his involvement, that's unlikely to lead to impeachment.  But the stench will stick to him.

Nor is he even appealing to the electorate or much of the Republican Congress.  He's an evangelical.  Soft on health care dismantling, soft on making the poor worse off, probably soft on warmongering.  Being hard on reproductive rights is not really where the GOP wants to go.  He's unelectable.

One of the easiest of Mueller's slam-dunks is conspiracy to lie to Congress and law enforcement about already-documented extensive meetings between Team Trump and Kislyak and other Kremlin figures.  They all already perjured themselves with respect to now-known facts.  Their uniform false denials need only Flynn's testimony.  He'll say "there were such-and-such meetings in which we all agreed to deny any contacts with Russians."  Pence may or may not have lied to the FBI about this, but his failure to truthfully convey the Flynn episode makes him an accessory after the fact.

It's just not credible that each of the various figures independently decided to deny all contact with Russians.  It's plainly a conspiracy, provable with Flynn's testimony.  Pence seems likely to end up as an unidicted co-conspirator, given his minor role.  He has no career at all left. 

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2028 on: December 09, 2017, 11:41:30 PM »
Re: Pence has no career left.

Mmm.

"You won't have XXX to kick around anymore ..."

Who was XXX ? Hint: 1962

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2029 on: December 10, 2017, 12:27:13 AM »
From The Intercept:

Quote
The U.S. Media Yesterday Suffered its Most Humiliating Debacle in Ages: Now Refuses All Transparency Over What Happened

FRIDAY WAS ONE of the most embarrassing days for the U.S. media in quite a long time. The humiliation orgy was kicked off by CNN, with MSNBC and CBS close behind, with countless pundits, commentators and operatives joining the party throughout the day. By the end of the day, it was clear that several of the nation’s largest and most influential news outlets had spread an explosive but completely false news story to millions of people, while refusing to provide any explanation of how it happened.

The spectacle began on Friday morning at 11:00 am EST, when the Most Trusted Name in News™ spent 12 straight minutes on air flamboyantly hyping an exclusive bombshell report that seemed to prove that WikiLeaks, last September, had secretly offered the Trump campaign, even Donald Trump himself, special access to the DNC emails before they were published on the internet. As CNN sees the world, this would prove collusion between the Trump family and WikiLeaks and, more importantly, between Trump and Russia, since the U.S. intelligence community regards WikiLeaks as an “arm of Russian intelligence,” and therefore, so does the U.S. media.

This entire revelation was based on an email which CNN strongly implied it had exclusively obtained and had in its possession. The email was sent by someone named “Michael J. Erickson” – someone nobody had heard of previously and whom CNN could not identify – to Donald Trump, Jr., offering a decryption key and access to DNC emails that WikiLeaks had “uploaded.” The email was a smoking gun, in CNN’s extremely excited mind, because it was dated September 4 – ten days before WikiLeaks began promoting access to those emails online – and thus proved that the Trump family was being offered special, unique access to the DNC archive: likely by WikiLeaks and the Kremlin.

It’s impossible to convey with words what a spectacularly devastating scoop CNN believed it had, so it’s necessary to watch it for yourself to see the tone of excitement, breathlessness and gravity the network conveyed as they clearly believed they were delivering a near-fatal blow to the Trump/Russia collusion story:



There was just one small problem with this story: it was fundamentally false, in the most embarrassing way possible. Hours after CNN broadcast its story – and then hyped it over and over and over – the Washington Post reported that CNN got the key fact of the story wrong.

The email was not dated September 4, as CNN claimed, but rather September 14 – which means it was sent after WikiLeaks had already published access to the DNC emails online. Thus, rather than offering some sort of special access to Trump, “Michael J. Erickson” was simply some random person from the public encouraging the Trump family to look at the publicly available DNC emails that WikiLeaks – as everyone by then already knew – had publicly promoted. In other words, the email was the exact opposite of what CNN presented it as being.

Dear Jesus... Did anyone here see this happen live?

The rest of the article is well worth reading:

Quote
It’s hard to quantify exactly how many people were deceived – filled with false news and propaganda – by the CNN story. But thanks to Democratic-loyal journalists and operatives who decree every Trump/Russia claim to be true without seeing any evidence, it’s certainly safe to say that many hundreds of thousands of people, almost certainly millions, were exposed to these false claims.

(...)

Thus far, these media corporations are doing the opposite of what journalists ought to do: rather than informing the public about what happened and providing minimal transparency and accountability for themselves and the high-level officials who caused this to happen, they are hiding behind meaningless, obfuscating statements crafted by PR executives and lawyers.

How can journalists and news outlets so flamboyantly act offended when they’re attacked as being “Fake News” when this is the conduct behind which they hide when they get caught disseminating incredibly consequential false stories?

The more serious you think the Trump/Russia story is, the more dangerous you think it is when Trump attacks the U.S. media as “Fake News,” the more you should be disturbed by what happened here, the more transparency and accountability you should be demanding. If you’re someone who thinks Trump’s attacks on the media are dangerous, then you should be first in line objecting when they act recklessly and demand transparency and accountability from them. It is debacles like this – and the subsequent corporate efforts to obfuscate – that have made the U.S. media so disliked and that fuel and empower Trump’s attacks on them.

(...)

But what one should expect with journalistic “mistakes” is that they sometimes go in one direction, and other times go in the other direction. That’s exactly what has not happened here. Virtually every false story published goes only in one direction: to be as inflammatory and damaging as possible on the Trump/Russia story and about Russia particularly. At some point, once “mistakes” all start going in the same direction, toward advancing the same agenda, they cease looking like mistakes.

No matter your views on those political controversies, no matter how much you hate Trump or regard Russia as a grave villain and threat to our cherished democracy and freedoms, it has to be acknowledged that when the U.S. media is spewing constant false news about all of this, that, too, is a grave threat to our democracy and cherished freedom.


(...)

So continually awful and misleading has this reporting been that even Vladimir Putin’s most devoted critics – such as Russian expatriate Masha Gessen, oppositional Russian journalists, and anti-Kremlin liberal activists in Moscow – are constantly warning that the U.S. media’s unhinged, ignorant, paranoid reporting on Russia is harming their cause in all sorts of ways, in the process destroying the credibility of the U.S. media in the eyes of Putin’s opposition (who – unlike Americans who have been fed a steady news and entertainment propaganda diet for decades about Russia -actually understand the realities of that country).

(...)

U.S. media outlets are very good at demanding respect. They love to imply, if not outright state, that being patriotic and a good American means that one must reject efforts to discredit them and their reporting because that’s how one defends press freedom.

Okay, back to the mantras. Sorry for the interruption.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2030 on: December 10, 2017, 01:23:19 AM »
OMG......a mainstream news outlet made a mistake!!😱😱😱

That does it....I'm not watching news ANYMORE.  I'm going to watch a second rate comedian on YouTube try to be a political analyst. 😳
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2031 on: December 10, 2017, 01:39:17 AM »
Re: Pence has no career left.

Mmm.

"You won't have XXX to kick around anymore ..."

Who was XXX ? Hint: 1962

sidd

Tricky Dick Nixon :P
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2032 on: December 10, 2017, 05:58:50 AM »

Your ad hominem rant about California's largess is ignored.
When you begin responding to non existing  ad hominems, you might want to check to see what is triggering these responses.


California is solidly a blue state. Those Democratic Californians who wish to make a difference with their donations might consider donations to Nevada or Arizona races, where their input has a better chance of turning the election.
A few more Democratic California Assemblymen makes very little difference. A few more Democrats winning in Nevada or Arizona could be huge.
Donate wisely - but for gods sake donate.


We are not going to win the Senate in 2018. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded or dishonest. There are only 8 Republican seats to be decided, we're presently holding 46 senate seats, and 23 of these are contested, you do the math.


Anyone building on this and imagining a Democratic Presidency prior to 2020 has been sold some powerful snake oil.


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2033 on: December 10, 2017, 06:38:58 AM »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2034 on: December 10, 2017, 08:09:29 AM »
Neven, I am kind of with Buddy on this blooper in this 13 minute segment on CNN.

CNN covers news 24/7 and sometimes they make mistakes. In this case they corrected their mistake on the same day (last Friday) and on-air.

Interesting is that in this case their reporters followed editorial guidelines, and the problem appears to be with the two independent sources they based the story on.
I'd hope that CNN will investigate why these two sources provided incorrect information, and if they determine that was done intentionally, that the sources be revealed, at the very least.

TheIntercept (and you) do make a big deal out of this, but I wonder why they don't apply the same standard to other networks like Fox News.

For example, here is a overview of a false story Fox News broke earlier this year, which is much more severe, since it involves a false accusation of homicide :

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/01/540783715/lawsuit-alleges-fox-news-and-trump-supporter-created-fake-news-story

Quote
On May 16, the Fox News Channel broke what it called a "bombshell" story about an unsolved homicide: the July 2016 shooting of 27-year-old Democratic Party staffer Seth Rich.

Unfounded conspiracy theories involving Rich abounded in the months after his death, in part because WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange cryptically suggested that Rich's death may have been related to the leaks of tens of thousands of emails from Democratic Party officials and their allies at the peak of the presidential campaign.

Fox News' story, which took flight online and ran in segments across major shows, breathed fresh life into the rumors. Fox reported that the leaks came from inside the party and not from hackers linked to Russia — despite the conclusions of the nation's most senior intelligence officials. The network suggested that Democrats might have been connected to Rich's death and that a cover-up had thwarted the official investigation.
....
Fox's report went sideways shortly after it was posted online and aired on Fox & Friends. It was denounced by the Rich family, D.C. police, Democratic Party officials and even, privately, by some journalists within the network. Within hours, Wheeler told other news outlets that Fox News had put words in his mouth.

Despite those concerns, Wheeler appeared on the shows of Fox Business host Lou Dobbs and Fox News star Sean Hannity, who devoted significant time to the story that night and in subsequent days. In speaking with Wheeler, Hannity said: "If this is true and Seth Rich gave WikiLeaks the DNC e-mails ... this blows the whole Russia collusion narrative completely out of the water."

A week later, on May 23, Fox retracted the story, saying the reporting process failed to live up to its standards. Hannity said he would take a break from talking about Rich's death out of respect for the family. And there it has largely stood — until now.

Then there is a twist after that (and a lawsuit) that involves the White House.

I did not see a story by TheIntercept that Fox News was making false accusations of homicide.
Nor did I see any post from you about it.

Was that because Fox News was granted the 'fake news trophy' by Rasmussen this year ?

http://www.businessinsider.com/rasmussen-poll-trump-fake-news-trophy-fox-news-2017-11

Or was it because there are so many false stories coming out of Fox News that nobody reports on it any more (thus creating a different standard) ?

And note the link to Julian Assange (Wikileaks) as to where this sinister fake story originated from....
« Last Edit: December 10, 2017, 08:47:22 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2035 on: December 10, 2017, 02:04:22 PM »
If I am inside the Kremlin.... I have to be thinking the following:

1). It is AMAZING how easy it was to con some of the US public.  Did you see some of the CRAP we floated out there and they bought it!

2). Why didn't we think of this earlier?  Have you seen some of the BATSHIT crazy folks they have elected to office?  Sara Palin, Ted Cruz, "Smokey Joe" Barton, Louis Ghomert... 

3). Look at all the money lobbyists have plunked down over the years and convinced politicians to....
A). Support selling death sticks (also known as cigarettes)
B). Support a dying industry by putting the word (lie) CLEAN in front of coal (they even got Barry on that one).
C). Do away with many of the regulations that were put in place after the financial meltdown that were designed to prevent ANOTHER meltdown
D). Convince them that dumping all that CO2 into the atmosphere has no effect on global warming

Look....if those Americans are THAT STUPID (sad but true)...then we need to go back next election for more of this.  In fact....if we can pay off a few more people than we did this time (Trump, Rorbach, Nunez, RNC, Hannity, etc)....then maybe we can get the whole enchilda at some point down the road. 😳😳😳
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idunno

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2036 on: December 10, 2017, 04:02:39 PM »
Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread,but...

It is now two days since any contributor to this forum had anything to say about Arctic Sea Ice.

Perhaps it might be less misleading if Neven could rename this whole forum as "Buddy's TV reviews - Fox News (US) Only".

WRT Russiagate, if there is anybody here who actually has any idea what Mueller has discovered, it would be illegal for them to post it here, or anywhere else. So we are all either A. ignorant or B. silent or C. soon to be arrested.

From one of the most informative, educational sites on the internet, which was often days ahead of the MSM in breaking news about perhaps the most vital issue des nos jours - Arctic Sea Ice - to a pathetic, ignorant, ineffectual critique of one vacuous US politician... SAD!

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2037 on: December 10, 2017, 04:21:43 PM »
Mueller will continue to serve indictments to team Trump, perhaps striking within the family circle.  Mueller may even produce charges against Trump himself.  But if you’ve observed the behavior of GOP leadership, their wealthy donors, and the state media surrogates, you can only conclude that the GOP congress will not do anything, rather they will work to protect and shield Trump.

I’ve come around to believing that Trump will serve his full term unless he dies of natural causes or is otherwise incapacitated.  Dems should take the House in 18 and will impeach, but it’s unlikely the Senate can muster the votes to convict.

Mike Pence?  He’s a stone cold liar, a master of deceit, to his core.  He is likely implicated in some way, but it is equally likely he escapes charges.

The American system is hanging by a thread, thanks largely to the GOP allowing a foreign adversary to subvert our democratic process and turning a blind eye as the Executive pillages the treasury for personal gain and systematically destroys all institutions that should serve as checks and balances.

2018 is likely the year that America slides into full blown autocracy, aided and abetted by the Republican Party and state media. 

But her emails.

Susan Anderson

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2038 on: December 10, 2017, 04:43:14 PM »
idunno, that is very cogent and on point. I have been reflecting on how obsessive a small number of people have become - many of them from abroad - about the tragic disaster that is the US government today. Don't get me wrong, it is tragic, but there are more productive uses of our time than obsessing over it, or even worse, blaming the victims and encouraging infighting.

I will be limiting my - admittedly inexpert - opinionating and observations here to climate-related material in future. I think we've run this blamefest into the ground, and our monster-in-chief will no doubt continue to find new things to destroy in his path following evil to its sordid end.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2039 on: December 10, 2017, 06:28:20 PM »
We are not going to win the Senate in 2018. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded or dishonest. There are only 8 Republican seats to be decided, we're presently holding 46 senate seats, and 23 of these are contested, you do the math.

The linked articles give the Democrats a 50-50 chance of winning the Senate if Doug Jones wins in Alabama on Tuesday (and I suspect that these odd would improve if Mueller indicts Trump in the Summer of 2018):

Title: "Do Democrats Need To Win In Alabama To Take The Senate In 2018?"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-democrats-need-to-win-in-alabama-to-take-the-senate-in-2018/?src=obsidebar=sb_1

Extract: "He says he would buy Democrats to win the Senate at 30 percent. And that it would be 50-50 if Democrat Doug Jones wins in Alabama."

Title: "Doug Jones Is Just A Normal Polling Error Away From A Win In Alabama"

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/doug-jones-is-just-a-normal-polling-error-away-from-a-win-in-alabama/
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budmantis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2040 on: December 10, 2017, 07:36:33 PM »
If the Republicans field more Senate candidates like Roy Moore, Democrats should pick up some of those seats, but they would have to run the table on their own. The landscape looks very favorable for the Democrats in 2018 but 50% is a stretch!

BudM

wili

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2041 on: December 10, 2017, 08:32:16 PM »
"It is now two days since any contributor to this forum had anything to say about Arctic Sea Ice."

...so??

Then post something on Arctic Sea Ice already, instead of bellyaching that no one else has...

Really, it's quite easy to just pick threads you are interested in and ignore the rest. Do you need instructions on how to do that?  :)
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2042 on: December 10, 2017, 09:57:13 PM »
"if there is anybody here who actually has any idea what Mueller has discovered, it would be illegal for them to post it here, or anywhere else. "

Wasn't that settled in the Ellsberg case a long time ago? NYtimes and WaPo published leaked secret material and got away with it. As far as I know, the law has not substantially changed since.

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2043 on: December 10, 2017, 10:32:06 PM »
Carl Bernstein is catching on.  I knew he would....he's a HELL of a lot smarter than me...🤡
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2044 on: December 11, 2017, 03:47:20 AM »
As RussiaGate continues to pick up momentum in the coming days/weeks/months...you may want to spend some time following Seth Abramson in Twitter @SethAbramson.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/939432544008921088

Quote
It's time to tell the biggest untold story of the 2016 election: how a cadre of pro-Trump FBI agents and intel officers—some active, some retired—conspired to swing the election to Trump. The story involves Flynn, Prince, Giuliani, and others. Hope you'll read and share.

More nothing for the nothing burger, for those that haven't followed Buddy's Tip on Seth Abramson

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2045 on: December 11, 2017, 03:55:45 AM »
We are not going to win the Senate in 2018. Anyone who tells you otherwise is deluded or dishonest. There are only 8 Republican seats to be decided, we're presently holding 46 senate seats, and 23 of these are contested, you do the math.

The linked articles give the Democrats a 50-50 chance of winning the Senate if Doug Jones wins in Alabama on Tuesday (and I suspect that these odd would improve if Mueller indicts Trump in the Summer of 2018):

Title: "Do Democrats Need To Win In Alabama To Take The Senate In 2018?"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/do-democrats-need-to-win-in-alabama-to-take-the-senate-in-2018/?src=obsidebar=sb_1

Extract: "He says he would buy Democrats to win the Senate at 30 percent. And that it would be 50-50 if Democrat Doug Jones wins in Alabama."

Title: "Doug Jones Is Just A Normal Polling Error Away From A Win In Alabama"

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/doug-jones-is-just-a-normal-polling-error-away-from-a-win-in-alabama/

I’m anticipating that Moore wins comfortably on Tuesday.  And he will not be expelled by a Mitch McConnell led Senate.

It’s one of the few political observations from Terry that I agree with, but I don’t see Dems picking up the Senate in 18.  They can probably pick up one of NV or AZ.  Before Moore I thought the D holds in red states would depend on whether the GOP runs extremists, but now it’s likely they can pick up WV and maybe a few other D seats with even the nuttiest candidates.  It’s still going to be a closely divided Senate, and the House should flip to Dems.

Everything subject to change based on the depth of Republicans’ voter supression strategy and assistance from the Kremlin.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2046 on: December 11, 2017, 01:45:17 PM »
Abet......verb:

Encourage or assist someone to do something wrong, in particular, to commit a crime or other offense.  "He was not guilty of conspiracy/obstruction but was guilty of AIDING AND ABETTING OTHERS" to do so.

As Bernstein notes.....several at FOX are guilty of aiding and abetting.   I suspect that two at FOX are likely in more hot water than JUST aiding and abetting:  Sean Hannity and Jeanine Pirro.

Whether Mueller will go down that prosecutorial road is yet to be seen.....but there is a pretty good chance that Hannity and/or Pirro were caught in conversations with Manafort by the FBI.  If you have seen any of Hannity's show over the past week....he looks like a guilty man who is cornered and striking out.  Time will tell.

And we still have sealed indictment "A" just waiting for somebody.  Who is going to get coal in their stocking?


FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2047 on: December 11, 2017, 02:24:51 PM »
Sorry for posting this in the wrong thread,but...

You are, indeed, in the wrong thread. I would hope discerning and intelligent people--the kind we'd preferably like to see on this site--can accept a sub-thread called 'Russiagate' in a sub-forum called 'The Rest' in a category called 'Off-Topic' that features discussion about "Russiagate" without thinking the entire site has gone down the toilet.

Anyway, NBC News is reporting that Mueller is examining whether Trump himself directed Flynn to lie to the FBI about his contacts with Russia.

Whoops.

Some have downplayed the whole "Russiagate" thing by claiming that it's all about whether Russia helped Trump get elected. (Spoiler alert: they did. Spoiler alert II: that's not a big deal.) Others have claimed that entirely too much attention is being paid to Trump's myriad shady connections to Russia, and that distraction will cause the Democrats to lose in the future.

I disagree with both.

The only other option we have is to ignore everything, pretend that Flynn and Manafort and Page and Kushner and Junior and everyone else did nothing wrong and even if they did it's no big deal so let's just all forget about it and move on. That's unacceptable. We can walk and chew gum at the same time: support better, more diverse candidates, work on getting money out of politics, pushing the party to be more progressive, and so on. And we can also continue to highlight the fact that the CiC and his entourage are a bunch of thieving, lying, corrupt Russian puppets far more beholden to Moscow than to the American people. Maybe that will sway some people; maybe it won't. But I don't think that necessarily needs to be a political calculation; wrong is wrong, and should be rooted out.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2048 on: December 11, 2017, 06:26:26 PM »
I’m anticipating that Moore wins comfortably on Tuesday.  And he will not be expelled by a Mitch McConnell led Senate.

Evidently, Moore is leading in most recent polls, but if the Democrats can mobilize sufficient numbers of black voters (I note that Alabama may be the leading state in the country for voter suppression, so such a mobilization will require work), then the tide could turn from a red tide in to a blue tide, beginning with Alabama.  As Obama states: "This one's serious".

Title: "Barack Obama Records Robocall For Doug Jones In Alabama Senate Race"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/barack-obama-doug-jones-alabama-senate_us_5a2e9e6ae4b0a290f0526597

Extract: "“This one’s serious,” Obama says in the call, telling Alabama Democrats to “get out and vote” in Tuesday’s special election."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2049 on: December 11, 2017, 08:08:00 PM »
ASLR
Jim has assured us all that those crying Russia, Russia, Russia, are at the same time capable of walking while chewing gum.


No doubt these multitasking democrats have been writing articles, and responding to articles written in Alabama's leading newspapers. They will have donated heavily to Doug Jones campaign and either volunteered to drive voters to the polls, or have contributed gas money to the locals volunteering their vehicles and time.


Joe Biden has campaigned for Doug, Obama has recorded a robo call on his behalf, and Cory Booker found himself in Birmingham stumping for his fellow democrat. The former Democratic governor of Alabama, and his wife, are absent, but given the sexual undertones in this race, Bill's absence might be expected.


USA Today describes Doug Jones' strategy as following Hillary's winning, (according to some) game plan. Doug asks voters to vote against his opponent rather than extolling his own vision for the future.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/12/10/alabama-senate-can-doug-jones-beat-roy-moore-failed-clinton-strategy-rachel-bitecofer-column/938807001/


An intriguing race that may already have cost Al Franken his seat.
Terry