The Russiagate conspiracy theory

[SeanAU]

"Unfortunately, this technological transformation has made it easier than before to spread what we call hostile political rumors in a way that goes “farther, faster, deeper, and more broadly than truth”. Hostile political rumors portray politicians and political groups negatively and possess low evidential value. They encapsulate conspiracy theories, “fake news,” discussions of political scandals, and negative campaigns. Although these different types of news vary in substance and form, they all seek to incite hostility toward a specific target and are difficult to verify or disprove. Hostile political rumors can shape political outcomes in considerable ways, from sparking significant small-scale incidents—such as protests and cyberbullying of political opponents to influencing large-scale political outcomes"

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/american-political-science-review/article/need-for-chaos-and-motivations-to-share-hostile-political-rumors/7E50529B41998816383F5790B6E0545A

Sums up the fake news accusations and Biden ramping up a response over "Putin had Navalny killed in prison" nicely in a ribbon.

Hillary labeling Carlson as Putin's useful idiot, Iraq's WMD etc etc etc

And several other conspiracy theories as well. Including the overt overreaction to speaking of Seth Rich's murder and no one allowed to talk about or they were pilloried publicly, and the anything to do with it, including his laptop held by the FBI, has been locked up as a state secret for 65 years.

The hostility was attacking anyone who wanted to uncover the truth of what happened -- the same way such things were discussed in everyone else's murder who was a public figure to some degree have always been allowed to 'talk about it" and be given law enforcement information openly.

Several incl Taibbi exposed the US Govt censoring systems in the Twitter Files but the only thing people bitch about is Elon. Nothing will change. New cambridge paper or not. (shrug)

[Reginald]

Terry Kanefield has a timeline: https://terikanefield.com/why-some-prefer-oligarchy/

A look at the facts and history shows that the Congressional Republicans are not useful idiots. They are not being manipulated by the cunning Russians. They are Putin’s willing partners. They share Putin’s goals and political views and use the same tactics.

[cognitivebias2]

This is what a moderated comment looks like?

Do you really not see how incredibly dumb that video is? I watched Pakman a couple of years ago when I was interested in American politics, but TDS got him, and it looks like he hasn't improved. In fact, I can't remember him promoting something silly as weight loss treatments. This guy is just as bad as the right-wing misinformers, all of them feeding off of each other. The whole left-right fake dichotomy is a huge industry.

There is a substantive difference, although I doubt it registers from where you sit.  The corrupt politicians on the right are actively trying to subvert the very fabric of American democratic systems.  Many are lapdogs of Putin, although again, from where you sit that probably makes them 'better'. 

The left starts from objective fact, the right tries to deny that objective fact exists. 

[SeanAU]

THE PARANOID, LIARS AND SOPHISTS ALWAYS CLAIM THEY KNOW HOW THE BAD PEOPLE THINK AND WHY.

Terry Kanefield has a timeline: https://terikanefield.com/why-some-prefer-oligarchy/

A look at the facts and history shows that the Congressional Republicans are not useful idiots. They are not being manipulated by the cunning Russians. They are Putin’s willing partners. They share Putin’s goals and political views and use the same tactics.

Why can't Putin instead be The Republicans willing partners ... because he shares the Republican goals and political views, use the same tactics?

And because it was the US 'economic finance bureaucrats' (sic) who instigated the nationwide theft of Russian industrial assets originally into the hands of mafia oligarchs, while US Banksters took their Commission Cut, during the 1990s under the direction of one Bill Clinton a Democratic Party President BEFORE Putin had an ounce of power or influence or anyone knew his name!!!

No no no, please, not those facts, please no! Not THAT history omg no stop!!!

No one has ever heard of Jeffery Sachs who has told the real factual history of those times and who was there at the coal face at time in Moscow.

Huh, well huh? Not to overlook Hillary Clinton making millions in the 20210s off of selling a US Uranium company to the Russians when she was Secretary of State ... right?  Never let an inconvenient fact get in the way of a bullshit lying narrative by a Paid Conspiracy Theorist, hey. Well? (smile)

The unhinged, Kanefield and Snyders of this sick world, who lack a 'self-serving' grip on reality will naturally create conspiracy theories which at the end of the are only theories because they leave thousands of genuine historical facts out along the way, which, if included dismantle their stupid theory at it's core level.

Especially when their livelihood depends on the unending flow of PR promotion of her narratives for sale and his Academic salary kudos and books sales and speaking engagements globally.

She's in the business to do business and make a killing while doing it. Same reason why GM produces TV advertising to sell it's cars and trucks, she writes horseshit articles to her name front and center to the gullible dullards who buy her books.

And so it is. Knowledge about the facts and reality is all one needs to ignore such insane unhinged rhetoric and the well crafted manipulative self-serving sophistry like this incompetent idiot Teri Kanefield presents to her adoring credulous cult followers.

Thanks for the laughs. 

[SeanAU]

This is what a moderated comment looks like?

Do you really not see how incredibly dumb that video is? I watched Pakman a couple of years ago when I was interested in American politics, but TDS got him, and it looks like he hasn't improved. In fact, I can't remember him promoting something silly as weight loss treatments. This guy is just as bad as the right-wing misinformers, all of them feeding off of each other. The whole left-right fake dichotomy is a huge industry.

There is a substantive difference, although I doubt it registers from where you sit.  The corrupt politicians on the right are actively trying to subvert the very fabric of American democratic systems.  Many are lapdogs of Putin, although again, from where you sit that probably makes them 'better'. 

The left starts from objective fact, the right tries to deny that objective fact exists.

ROFL woof woof woof hahahaha hehehehe omg aaahhh faaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrk me! What a laugh!

(smile) 

But of course not completely wrong. Because Putin is far more powerful than Darth Vader and Darth Sidious combined.   

How do you spell a 'Cluck' in American?   As in a  dumb cluck?
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cluck

I know, I'm bad. Very bad. (smile)

[SeanAU]

OMG Trump is going to disband NATO and let Putin attack anyone he wants.

Michael Tracy, Feb 22 2024

    Unfortunately, the media’s professional Trump alarmists simply cannot countenance a reality-based version of Trump, so instead they must eternally cling to their fictionalized, Putin-colluding version. They might not even know, for instance, that Trump presided over two rounds of NATO expansion — Montenegro in 2017 and North Macedonia in 2020. While perhaps not the most formidable powers in the NATO military alliance, their seamless absorption was made possible by Trump’s fulsome support for enlarging the bloc — notwithstanding any vague NATO-skeptical rhetoric he might have inchoately dabbled in.

    Proceeding with these rounds of NATO expansion required Trump to take presidential action on multiple occasions, including personally signing the final ‘instrument of accession’ formalizing the countries as NATO member-states. Philip Reeker, a State Department official testifying on behalf of the Trump Administration in support of expanding NATO, said in 2019: “Let me begin by reaffirming the role of NATO. As President Trump has said, the alliance has been the bulwark of international peace and security for 70 years.”

    Given the wildly disproportionate attention paid to Trump rhetoric over Trump policy, few of the current media alarmists are likely even aware that Trump expanded NATO twice. Nor could they come up with a convincing explanation for how this fits with their hallucinogenic nightmare of Trump surrendering NATO to Putin.

Most European countries would do well without NATO. There are currently no large unfinished conflicts in Europe that are threatening to escalate into wars. The Baltic states may fear some Russian intervention. Without NATO cover they would have to tone down their loud anti-Russian voices and would have to accommodate the parts of their population that are of Russian heritage. I would be fine with that.

Without NATO the west European countries would likely agree to some common defense treaty but keep their defense spending and military forces down to levels that allow for growing them if necessary but below the numbers need for an actual war. East European countries would probably spend more to defense and keep larger forces if only to appease those parts of their population which still have an irrational fear of Russia.

Then there are American's irrational fear of Russia. It's called pathological paranoia and delusional.

[zenith]

The left starts from objective fact, the right tries to deny that objective fact exists.

lol, the old left/right paradigm is alive and well in the usofa. newsflash - they're all owned by corporate/special interests. it's time to put this nonsense to bed as it was revealed for the psychological operation/propaganda campaign it was years ago.

you americans aren't the victims of foreign interference except for that which is known in the public realm already. in fact, you're the leading perpetrators of foreign interference in other countries for the sake of your corporate masters. oligarchy and fascism are served up by both parties in the extravaganza show you call elections.

don't worry, i don't think trump ever makes it to the ballot box - jfk style gangsta.

they already got their proxy war in ukraine against the evil russians as a result of priming the pump for years at home and abroad, it's only going to cost you a couple hundred billion and the loss of all credibility. not to mention a million plus dead/maimed ukrainians and the destruction of a country.

the real problem is you still think the usofa is a country like any other, not the empire it is. again, you're not the victim.

[SeanAU]

Like most Westerners, whether they developed in the center or on the fringe of established money and power, Craig Murray has had a hard time coming to grips with the reality of Western behavior. Yes, all the evidence is there, but the mind has difficulty accepting the reality that the West is that thoroughly evil, and shows no indication of self-reflection. We tell ourselves that the criminality is a bug, not the feature, because it's the culture we were born and raised in, until for some the crimes become impossible to paper over. It's a hard leap to make. If Craig Murray's article changes a few minds, that's a good thing.

Craig Murray: Mea Culpa on Ukraine
February 24, 2024
The same powers who fund and arm Ukraine fund and arm genocide by a racial supremacist Israel. My belief in some kind of inherent decency in the Western political Establishment was naive.

The genocide in Gaza – or more precisely the major NATO powers’ active and practical support for the genocide in Gaza – has forced me to re-evaluate my views on Ukraine in a manner more sympathetic to the Russian narrative.

In particular, I was complacent in my dismissive attitude to the argument that the Western powers would back ethnic cleansing and massacre in the Donbass by forces including some motivated by Nazi ideology.

The same powers who are funding and arming Ukraine are funding and arming a genocide by racial supremacist Israeli forces in Gaza. It is beyond argument that my belief in some kind of inherent decency in the Western political Establishment was naive.

I apologise.

The causes of the Russian invasion of Ukraine are plain. Alarm at NATO expansionism and forward positioning of aggressive military assets encircling Russia. The Ukrainian coup of 2014. Exasperation at Ukrainian bad faith and the ignoring of the Minsk accords. The continuing death toll from shelling of Russian speakers in the Donbass.

The suppression of the Russian language, of Russian Orthodox religion and of the main pro-Russian opposition political party in Ukraine are simple facts.

These I have always acknowledged: until I saw the positive enthusiasm of leaders of the Western states for massacre in Gaza, I was not convinced they could not have been addressed by diplomacy and negotiation.

I now have to reassess that view in the light of new information, and I now think Putin was justified in the invasion.

It is not that any of the arguments are new. It is simply that before I did not believe that the West would sponsor mass ethnic cleansing and genocidal attack on the Donbass by extreme Ukrainian nationalist-led, Western-armed forces.

I thought the “West” was more civilised than that. I now have to face the fact that I was wrong about the character of the NATO powers.

The alternative to Putin’s action probably was indeed massacre and ethnic cleansing.
https://consortiumnews.com/2024/02/24/craig-murray-mea-culpa-on-ukraine/

Yeah Russia was seriously provoked, and so was Hamas!

Mind you, for Robert's to be  so ignorant of history and morally bereft up to 2022 is a damning self-indictment for a man who professes to love history.

One only has to look to the post-WW2 colonial anti-independence campaigns of the Dutch, French and British to see what "Western civilization" looks like. Or perhaps Vietnam with its widespread massacres and Agent Orange poisoning, the US support of the Indonesian ethnic-Chinese genocide, the Indonesian Timorese genocide, and the Guatemala genocide, the illegal bombing of Serbia, the destruction of the middle income Libya, or the illegal invasion of Iraq ...

Today the entire West is neo-colonial supremacists in service to mega wealth and control of the entire world; and Russia/China/Iran is fighting an anti-colonial world war. Iran is also quite socialist and there is a lot of separation of powers between church (which is moderate Moslem) and state. Iran's issue with Israel is not religious, it is that the state of Israel is an ethnic cleansing genocidal colonial imposition upon the people's of that land since the 1920s .... No different than South Africa and all thinking humans with a moral compass.

[Neven]

they already got their proxy war in ukraine against the evil russians as a result of priming the pump for years at home and abroad, it's only going to cost you a couple hundred billion and the loss of all credibility. not to mention a million plus dead/maimed ukrainians and the destruction of a country.

the real problem is you still think the usofa is a country like any other, not the empire it is. again, you're not the victim.

This is exactly it. So many people try to fill their hollowness with Trump-hate and Russophobia. They simply don't see how things like Russiagate are age-old divide-and-conquer tactics. But their warmongering ignorance has real-world consequences...

[nadir]

This is what a moderated comment looks like?

Do you really not see how incredibly dumb that video is? I watched Pakman a couple of years ago when I was interested in American politics, but TDS got him, and it looks like he hasn't improved. In fact, I can't remember him promoting something silly as weight loss treatments. This guy is just as bad as the right-wing misinformers, all of them feeding off of each other. The whole left-right fake dichotomy is a huge industry.

There is a substantive difference, although I doubt it registers from where you sit.  The corrupt politicians on the right are actively trying to subvert the very fabric of American democratic systems.  Many are lapdogs of Putin, although again, from where you sit that probably makes them 'better'. 

The left starts from objective fact, the right tries to deny that objective fact exists.

The guy completely misses his own ignorance about what’s going on with the democracy of his own country. While giving us all another lesson.

[Ranman99]

I would love to see a ranking of countries on an intelligence/knowledge per capita basis. First, we would have to decide what constitutes fair intelligence and knowledge rating, of course, but I think it would be telling. Who is the most duped populace on planet Earth might sake out of that for sure. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

The per capita part is what I am interested in. Then maybe we could rank absolute numbers, and I would want all 8 billion of the species polled for both counts. 😋✌️

[SeanAU]

I would love to see a ranking of countries on an intelligence/knowledge per capita basis. First, we would have to decide what constitutes fair intelligence and knowledge rating, of course, but I think it would be telling. Who is the most duped populace on planet Earth might sake out of that for sure. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

The per capita part is what I am interested in. Then maybe we could rank absolute numbers, and I would want all 8 billion of the species polled for both counts. 😋✌️

It's not about "intelligence"

[SeanAU]

zeniths video with davis and mearshiemer was good quick review of the history of US malign interference in Ukraine from the 90s onwards.

Terry Kanefield has a timeline: https://terikanefield.com/why-some-prefer-oligarchy/

A look at the facts and history shows that the Congressional Republicans are not useful idiots. They are not being manipulated by the cunning Russians. They are Putin’s willing partners. They share Putin’s goals and political views and use the same tactics.

Cheney warns of Republican Party ‘Putin-wing’ after Navalny death

CNN - GOP former Rep. Liz Cheney on Sunday warned of a Republican Party “Putin-wing”

There is a substantive difference, although I doubt it registers from where you sit.  The corrupt politicians on the right are actively trying to subvert the very fabric of American democratic systems.  Many are lapdogs of Putin, although again, from where you sit that probably makes them 'better'. 
The left starts from objective fact, the right tries to deny that objective fact exists.

Maybe the US tried to control Ukraine, but is Russia so weak that they had no other solution than war to establish themselves in the world community ? Just like the US in Central America a few years ago ? Money wasn't flowing the way Russia wanted, and making a decent offer for their services would have required a reduction of the incomes, so lets send some bombs to make sure the US don't get the money they loose. For the US, business with Ukraine is based on marginal costs, for Russia it is about loosing a milked cow, or their home market if you prefer (just like the EU is the home market of Apple, Nike and friends -

Putin defeated US plan for Russia – Nuland
The arch-neocon has told CNN that Washington wanted a compliant leader installed in Moscow   

Vladimir Putin’s Russia is “not the Russia that we wanted,” Acting US Deputy Secretary of State Victoria Nuland has told CNN. Nuland explained that Washington wanted a compliant leader in the Kremlin who would “westernize” the country.

“It’s not the Russia that, frankly, we wanted,” Nuland told CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Thursday. “We wanted a partner that was going to be westernizing, that was going to be European. But that’s not what Putin has done.”

Putin’s predecessor, Boris Yeltsin, enjoyed Washington’s support as he oversaw the rushed privatization of the Russian economy in the 1990s. Yeltsin’s [ US demanded ] reforms saw the rise of the so-called ‘oligarchs’, who amassed huge fortunes selling Russia’s natural resources to Western buyers, while the majority of the population dealt with declining life expectancy, soaring crime and homicide rates, and the collapse of the ruble.

Putin, who first took office in 2000, is widely credited with taming the oligarchs, imposing public order, and reversing the economic and social decline of the 1990s. Putin initially sought friendly relations with the West, telling American journalist Tucker Carlson earlier this month that he asked then-US President Bill Clinton whether Russia could one day join NATO, only to be rejected.

Putin nevertheless reached out to Clinton’s successor, George W. Bush, with a proposal that the US, Russia, and Europe jointly create a missile defense system. While Bush’s team initially expressed interest, Putin said that “in the end they just told us to get lost.”

A combination of NATO expansion, American support for jihadist groups in the Caucuses, and Nuland’s orchestration of the coup d’etat in Ukraine in 2014 made it clear that the US and its allies were not interested in cooperation, Putin told Carlson.

Nuland told Amanpour that Putin has “destroyed his own country” by intervening in Ukraine, and that the US will “continue to tighten the noose on him,” ...........

rt and every accurate version of the history
https://www.rt.com/russia/593142-victoria-nuland-putin-defeated/