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Author Topic: The Russiagate conspiracy theory  (Read 1120173 times)

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1700 on: November 14, 2017, 02:37:10 AM »
The Wikileaks stuff is obvious stuff that would have been known to anyone who was watching the campaign.
Like climate science back then. No proof, just theory...
... (grabs popcorn)

"This wikileaks is like a treasure trove" -- Trump
ROTFL :)

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/
The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks
The transparency organization asked the president’s son for his cooperation—in sharing its work, in contesting the results of the election, and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1701 on: November 14, 2017, 03:26:25 AM »
The Secret Correspondence Between Donald Trump Jr. and WikiLeaks
The transparency organization asked the president’s son for his cooperation—in sharing its work, in contesting the results of the election, and in arranging for Julian Assange to be Australia’s ambassador to the United States.

Here is a link to a follow-on article

Title: "Donald Trump Jr. communicated with WikiLeaks during 2016 campaign, sources say"

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sources-donald-trump-jr-communicated-wikileaks-2016-campaign/story?id=51125083&cid=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed

Extract: "A source close to Trump Jr. tells ABC News they believe after Wikileaks’ initial message to him, he did send an email to campaign officials including Steve Bannon, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale, and Jared Kushner sharing that Wikileaks had made contact, as first reported by The Atlantic.

The sources also confirm to ABC News the correspondence was turned over by Trump Jr. to congressional investigators as part of the ongoing Russia probe.

Alan Futerfas, Trump Jr.’s lawyer, said in a statement to ABC News that his client has cooperated with the various congressional committee investigations."
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1702 on: November 14, 2017, 04:05:55 AM »
Perhaps a slightly aged recap from the proudly progressive "The Nation" would chill the Left vs Right nature that Russiagate seems to have acquired.


https://www.thenation.com/article/a-leak-or-a-hack-a-forum-on-the-vips-memo/


This "leftist rag" had earlier published an article that the DNC hack had to have been a DNC leak as proven by the speed of the file transfer captured and saved in the meta-data.
Some objected to this appraisal so The Nation responded by publishing their objections, responses to their objections, and finally the objections to the objections to the objectors objections. Whew!


The article itself is filled with contradictory conclusions, and I might suggest skipping straight to the comments section for the less technically astute.
Bear in mind while reading that Wikileaks insists there was no state involvement in the DNS leaks that they obtained and published. Also the complexity required by the deniers in concluding that under very convoluted circumstances data downloads at such transfer rates could be possible. Occam's beard might have concealed much had he awaited such a complex shave.


One or more of the commenters also asks why the former ambassador who claims specific knowledge re. the leak has never been questioned under oath.


Terry

Wow. Perfect example of how to create a massive amount of smoke when there is no fire.
Let's do some fact checking on this 'story' (of claims that the DNC hack was actually a leak) :

As the source, The Nation article links to this "VIPS memo" here :
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-evidence/

Now, big yellow flag going up right there, since 'consortiumnews.com' is a Russian lies outlet run by Putin-lover Robert Parry.

But let us dig deeper, since VIPS did not actually investigate anything, they just politicized the story.
The actual source of investigation is by a blogger ; 'theforensicator' :
https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/guccifer-2-ngp-van-metadata-analysis/

What he did was look at the timestamps of the files in one 7zip file, so as to determine how fast these files were copied. With the size of the files known, you can then determine the transfer speed.
He determined that to be 23 MBps on average, with peak spead 38 MBps.
This suggests that the files were copied not via internet, but from a local machine or a local network.

However, that does not prove ANYTHING about if this was a hack or a leak.
'theforensicator' points out that a hacker could easily have downloaded the files via internet, and then make a local copy :

https://theforensicator.wordpress.com/2017/08/24/alternative-scenarios/

Quote
Basically, if the hacker has his time zone set to Eastern, he can transfer the files over the Internet at whatever speed he wants, then make a local copy with ‘cp’ and it will technically be a “local copy” with Eastern time settings.

If I were a hacker (in Russia or anywhere), I would not want to reveal where I am, and when exactly I downloaded the files, and at which speed. I would want to make it look like this was a 'leak', so that is exactly what I would do.

Bubble busted by simple fact check and common sense.
And this VIPS group gets a negative point for politicizing the story.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 04:13:59 AM by Rob Dekker »
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miki

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1703 on: November 14, 2017, 04:25:50 AM »
You can also try to surf Wikipedia, let's say, for Larry C. Johnson... a mediocre hoaxes fabricator.
I mean, I literally just picked one among these ones putting their signature under the vip memo.
Junk, indeed.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1704 on: November 15, 2017, 09:56:29 AM »
First time I agree with Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

This is regarding the appointment of a special counsel for the fake scandal of the Steele Dossier or the fake scandal of Uranium One deal, where according to Jim Jordan (R- OH) "it sure "looks like" the FBI was paying the author of that document" :



Sessions : "I would say that "looks like" is not enough basis to appoint a special counsel".

Thank you, Mr. Sessions. For putting this conspiracy hawk Mr. Jordan from Ohio in place.

This exchange also shows how insanely polarized and biased some Republican party members have become.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1705 on: November 15, 2017, 01:41:21 PM »
This exchange also shows how insanely polarized and biased some Republican party members have become.
It is worse. They have nothing of substance to contribute, thus they resort to throwing shit at the Democrats. The GOP is almost completely reduced to a bunch of shit throwing chimps. And if you throw enough of it, some will stick. Ask Hillary.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1706 on: November 15, 2017, 02:04:18 PM »
Lobbyists have their effect on both sides of the aisle.....but CLEARLY the Republican Party is almost totally a LOBBYIST party that is representing the lobbyists and mega wealthy.

They are downplaying RussiaGate now so they can "make hay" while the sun is shinning.  And their lastet moves on the income tax front and OCare front prove that.   The Republicans really don't give a shit for Americans unless they are megadonors or lobbyists.

If they can raise any issue that distracts voters from RussiaGate....they will gladly do it.  They want the estate tax GONE....they want lower corporate rates.....and they want lower rates on wealthy individuals.

Stuart Varney had no problem lying the other night about the new tax bill.  The new tax bill is a HUGE tax cut for the uber wealthy.....and for middle income people, it is riughly brakeven (no effect).

But FOX has no problem lying about it.  Bald faced lies.  And Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell have NO PROBLEM lying about it as well.

FOX is the biggest danger to democracy in the US.....and has been for over 20 years.  People need to wake up to what FOX has done to brainwash voters.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:10:37 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1707 on: November 15, 2017, 06:24:28 PM »
Roy Moore is finding out how "pesky" those facts can be.  They NEVER go away.  Will his strategy of attacking the press work.....like it did for Donnie (in the short term)?  Maybe....maybe not. We'll find out within the next month.

Donnie was able to con his way out of the corner during the Access Hollywood snafu (at least for the time being).  But like all people who have lived his total life as an unethical liar....some of those facts are catching up with him.

We have many months ahead of us as the facts continue to get unearthed for Moron Don.  Can't wait to see who is next to be indicted..... I hope Donnie is getting his golf in. 🏌️🏌️🏌️ And I hope that Donnie is keeping an eye on the NY attorney general 😳😳😳....and the Virginia AG 😳😳😳.....and the soon-to-be new AG in New Jersey 😳😳😳.
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1708 on: November 15, 2017, 06:56:36 PM »
Not so much 'Russiagate' as 'Mercer&Bannon-gate':
"This is a power network that involves WikiLeaks and Farage, and Cambridge Analytica and Farage, and Robert Mercer and Farage. Steve Bannon, former vice president of Cambridge Analytica, and Farage. It’s Nigel Farage and Brexit and Trump and Cambridge Analytica and WikiLeaks… and, if the Senate intelligence committee and the House intelligence committee and the FBI are on to anything at all, somewhere in the middle of all that, Russia."

This is well said, and I think she's on to something here. She puts 'Russia' into the equation, which I believe is not correct, as there still is zero evidence of the 'Kremlin's' involvement. Rather, this is about the involvement of private people and private media companies (like the Internet Research Agency) in Russia. THey work in a network with foreign collaborators/contract partners that are all in a network we might call the international alt-right.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/28/trump-assange-bannon-farage-bound-together-in-unholy-alliance

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1709 on: November 15, 2017, 07:09:50 PM »
"as there is still zero evidence of Russia's involvement."

Really......Where have you been for the last year, Sweden?  Are you getting paid in rubbles or krona to post?  😳😳😳

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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1710 on: November 15, 2017, 07:27:19 PM »
"as there is still zero evidence of Russia's involvement."

Really......Where have you been for the last year, Sweden?  Are you getting paid in rubbles or krona to post?  😳😳😳

Well, if I only was paid to read all Your posts, Buddy :)

OK, give us one hard fact evidence that the Kremlin did something illegal in relation to the US presidential election.
(hint: Guccifer 2.0 is already debunked as a hoax)

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1711 on: November 15, 2017, 09:09:53 PM »
We are slowly getting closer to the truth:

Title: "Christopher Steele believes his dossier on Trump-Russia is 70-90% accurate"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/christopher-steele-trump-russia-dossier-accurate

Extract: "Christopher Steele, the former British intelligence officer who compiled an explosive dossier of allegations of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, believes it to 70% to 90% accurate, according to a new book on the covert Russian intervention in the 2016 US election.

The book, Collusion: How Russia Helped Donald Trump Win, by Guardian journalist Luke Harding, quotes Steele as telling friends that he believes his reports – based on sources cultivated over three decades of intelligence work – will be vindicated as the US special counsel investigation digs deeper into contacts between Trump, his associates and Moscow.

“I’ve been dealing with this country for thirty years. Why would I invent this stuff?” Steele is quoted as saying.

Steele flew to Rome in June to brief his FBI contact with whom he had shared his Fifa report, and returned in September to meet a full FBI team of investigators. He described their response as “shock and horror”, and they asked him to explain his methods and to pass on future reports.

However, as the weeks went by leading up to the 8 November election, the FBI told him it could not go public with material involving a presidential candidate, and then his FBI contacts went silent altogether. Steele told a friend it was clear he had passed on a “radioactive hot potato”. "
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ivica

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1712 on: November 15, 2017, 10:22:39 PM »
Pokemon Go etc, at RuTube:

"Political talk show with Dmitrii Koulikov from Oct 14, 2017. The guest is the Chief Editor of the TV channel Russia Today Margarita Simonyan."

Part I: https://rutube.ru/video/35f47363af9ce3fd35be7126d3e225ee/
Part II: https://rutube.ru/video/cefd5544d2b1c9e10c2b6ea57a0f3878/

"Note: these videos often load slowly, but then play well."
English subtitle.

Found at The Saker, transcript there. Just watching... :lol:  :-X


AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1713 on: November 15, 2017, 10:28:05 PM »
You can't blame a man (and his three co-sponsors) for trying:

Title: "Rep. Steve Cohen introduces articles of impeachment against Trump"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rep-steve-cohen-introduces-new-articles-of-impeachment-against-trump/

Extract: "Rep. Steve Cohen, D-Tennessee introduced new articles of impeachment against President Trump, citing several of his actions during his time in office as "violations of the U.S. Constitution."

Cohen called for the House Judiciary Committee, to begin impeachment hearings immediately. Although he doesn't expect the House to act upon the articles, he says it's the committee's responsibility to hold hearings on the matter.

This isn't his first attempt at impeachment -- in an earlier attempt, he accused Mr. Trump of having violated the foreign emoluments clause, but admitted Wednesday that that effort found little support, even among members of his own party."
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1714 on: November 15, 2017, 10:59:31 PM »
Pokemon Go etc, at RuTube:

"Political talk show with Dmitrii Koulikov from Oct 14, 2017. The guest is the Chief Editor of the TV channel Russia Today Margarita Simonyan."

Part I: https://rutube.ru/video/35f47363af9ce3fd35be7126d3e225ee/
Part II: https://rutube.ru/video/cefd5544d2b1c9e10c2b6ea57a0f3878/

"Note: these videos often load slowly, but then play well."
English subtitle.

Found at The Saker, transcript there. Just watching... :lol:  :-X
Why would this be interesting?  I could as well watch Fox News.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1715 on: November 16, 2017, 03:55:48 AM »

“A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth”. -Joseph Goebbels

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/13/mocking-trump-doesnt-prove-russias-guilt/

That's ironic, since Putin-lover Robert Parry at consortiumnews.com is the one telling Russian lies
over and over again. Apparently these Russian lies became truth for at least two commenters here on this thread.

Quote
Lot's of groupthink, and a total lack of evidence.

Lack of evidence ?
Let's recap :

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/technology/facebook-google-russia.html

Facebook :

Quote
Russian agents intending to sow discord among American citizens disseminated inflammatory posts that reached 126 million users on Facebook, published more than 131,000 messages on Twitter and uploaded over 1,000 videos to Google’s YouTube service, according to copies of prepared remarks from the companies

Twitter :

Quote
Twitter, in its prepared remarks, said it had discovered more than 2,700 accounts on its service that were linked to the Internet Research Agency between September 2016 and November 2016. Those accounts, which Twitter has suspended, posted roughly 131,000 tweets over that period.

Outside of the activity of the Internet Research Agency, Twitter identified more than 36,000 automated accounts that posted 1.4 million election-related tweets linked to Russia over that three-month period. The tweets received approximately 288 million views, according to the company’s remarks.

And 170 instagram accounts linked to Russian propaganda.

And then we have the many hacks :
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016-presidential-campaign-hacking-fast-facts/index.html

I count at least half a dozen hacks that have been attributed to Russian agents (like "Cozy Bear" and "Fancy Bear").

How much more evidence do you need to accept that Russia meddled in the US elections ?
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 04:15:51 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1716 on: November 16, 2017, 04:27:14 AM »
Here is the clearest argument that Attorney General Jeff Sessions is not only lying about his contacts with Russian officials, but is also hypocritical (he prosecuted a young police officer for lying, even though that officer corrected his statement) :



Rep. Ted Lieu exposes the lie, Rep. Hakeem Jeffries exposes the hypocrisy.
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1717 on: November 16, 2017, 06:11:18 AM »
The 126 million impressions on Facebook is an upper limit. Facebook says that

"Roughly 29 million people were served content in their Facebook news feeds directly from the Internet Research Agency's 80,000 posts from June 2015 to August 2017, according to Stretch.

But he said a far larger group — about 126 million people, or more than a third of the U.S. population — "may have been served" some type of Russian content from separate pages that posted the ads or linked to them."

This is over a two year period, 2015-2017.

http://beta.latimes.com/nation/la-na-russia-tech-20171031-story.html

sidd

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1718 on: November 16, 2017, 10:09:36 AM »
I ask again: How do these numbers (if true and correct) stack up against the totals?

And was it Russia? Or was it Russian corporations/private persons trying to make ad money? Or was it certain factions within Russia who work for certain oligarchic groups that are mainly based in Russia, but work together with oligarchs all around the world?

And who has to pay and how? And will it also be good for the gander?
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1719 on: November 16, 2017, 01:25:28 PM »
So Neven...it sounds as though you think that the Russian oligarchs work separately...and not in concert WITH and under the control OF Putin.  Do I understand you correctly?
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1720 on: November 16, 2017, 01:56:00 PM »
I ask again: How do these numbers (if true and correct) stack up against the totals?
Couldn't find any numbers. Maybe here: https://www.statista.com/statistics/398136/us-facebook-user-age-groups/ -- but I wont create an account there to get the numbers.

Methinks the numbers are telling enough: The Russian disinfo-psycho war campaign had significant impact. I would estimate 1/10 of content the Trumplins consumed came directly from Russia.

But then, the shit that stuck best wasn't Russian, but alt-right Breitbart conspiracy theorist stuff, like the Hillary-Uranium fake scandal (which even infected "leftists" like Jimmy Dore (who couldn't tell Plutonium from Uranium and put his own heat under this crock.))

So Neven...it sounds as though you think that the Russian oligarchs work separately...and not in concert WITH and under the control OF Putin.  Do I understand you correctly?
This seems to be a new Russian disinfo-psycho meme: "It was only private Russian citizens". As if there're any significant Russian actors left who are not under Putins control. Hefaistos is also infected.

Edit-P.S.: Apropos Uranium. I spoke bad of Fox News in a recent comment. Now, they also tried to debunk this BS: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/nov/15/fox-news-anchor-debunks-networks-clinton-uranium-scandal-sparking-fury
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 02:05:45 PM by Martin Gisser »

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1721 on: November 16, 2017, 02:53:38 PM »
Important subtle point about the fake stuff:
It is not only to directly influence opinion. It also functions as a sort of psychological questionaire, as click-bait honeypots, so that Big Data (e.g. Mercer-Bannon's Cambridge Analytica) can build a personality profile from these clicks and feed people tailored content. Individualized manipulation.

That's why Fakebook etc. is more than just Hitler's old Volksempfänger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksempf%C3%A4nger

Great article about our new age of AI propaganda:
https://medium.com/join-scout/the-rise-of-the-weaponized-ai-propaganda-machine-86dac61668b
Quote
The Rise of the Weaponized AI Propaganda Machine
There’s a new automated propaganda machine driving global politics. How it works and what it will mean for the future of democracy.

[...]

The web of fake and biased news that Albright uncovered created a propaganda wave that Cambridge Analytica could ride and then amplify. The more fake news that users engage with, the more addictive Analytica’s personality engagement algorithms can become.

Voter 35423 clicked on a fake story about Hillary’s sex-trafficking ring? Let’s get her to engage with more stories about Hillary’s supposed history of murder and sex trafficking.

[...]


Entertaining interview of 2 Russian trolls by Samantha Bee:

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1722 on: November 16, 2017, 02:58:16 PM »
Neven has finally convinced me....we don't know for sure that it was the Russian government that was involved in trying to sway the US voters.  It COULD have been any random number of Russian individuals or companies....not working at the direction of the Russian government.

Yes....all the intelligence agencies of the US and major Western European countries agree that it was Russian intelligence.  But they could be wrong....or they could be intentionally misleading us.

And yes.....Trump has from the very beginning been flattering Putin.  But maybe he just wanted to have better relations with Russia.

And yes.....Trump and his company have been "shut out" of US banks loaning money to him since his gaming companies went under early in the century.  And yes....he and his company have had to resort to loans from Deutche Bank in Germany....a bank that has been at the center of a money laundering probe.

And yes....Kushner lied about not meeting with Russians, and specifically about meeting with a bank that is under control if the Russian government (VEB Bank) as Kushners company is cash strapped and in great need of obtaining financing for notes that are due in 2018.  But I'm sure his meeting with the bank was nothing more than a pleasantry.....and he was absent minded when he forgot to disclose the meeting.

And yes.....there are an inordinate amount of Russians that have purchased property from Trump...and at least some of those at inflated amounts in excess of fair market value. For instance....the purchase of a property in Florida for $100 million dollars by Dmitry Rybololev....sight unseen without any inspection....that was later torn down).  Dmitry also had a habit of showing up in some of the same cities that Donald was making campaign stops at.  Rybololev purchased the property back in 2008.  But I'm sure that is just coincidental.

And yes.....Trump Tower has an inordinate amount of Russian buyers.  Maybe they just like all the gaudy gold colors Donnie likes to use.

And yes.....Felix Sater.....Russian born developer.....Trump always seems to draw a blank when someone asks him about Sater, even though Sater (with known mafia ties) has done business with a Trump AND his kids.  I'm sure that Donnie.....the person who said he has the best memory in the world....probably just forgot.  Sater worked for the Trump organization for over a decade looking for opportunities in Russia.  Minor point....

I could go on for pages.  But clearly the items in and of themselves....taken alone.....do NOT prove that Putin is involved.  The items noted above.....and numerous others not mentioned....are just coincidence.  So Neven has now convinced me that the Russian government is not involved.

As well.... I am also convinced that all the signs of global warming....do not PROVE that CO2 emissions caused by mankind is the root cause of global warming.  Neven has now convinced me that it COULD be the newly discovered volcanic activity in Antarctica that has been the root cause of warming.  I KNEW it.  Joe Basatardi was right all along. 😳
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 03:07:28 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1723 on: November 16, 2017, 03:58:57 PM »
It is indeed a much more interesting and realistic perspective to assume that the basis of all this is money and concentrated wealth. It's clear that the Russian government works with/for oligarchs, just like the American government does (right?). Why are oligarchs of one nation better than the other? They themselves don't take this polarizing approach towards each other. In fact, they work together, with their concentrated wealth, like inkblots, overlapping and merging, pushing for war, pushing for fossil fuel use, pushing for opioids, pushing for financial bubbles, ending up in tax havens. They create these polarizing narratives to manipulate the masses, or their lackeys do to get higher up the ladder (pay for play, etc).

So, yes, it's much more interesting and realistic to ask which elements in Russia exactly did what and for what, instead of this polarizing, divisive rhetoric where all of Russia gets lumped into this pseudo-Soviet Empire Scare. Because the Russians are not our enemies, humiliating and defeating them is not a solution. The problem is concentrated wealth, and that's the enemy we, and the Russians and every nation in the world need to fight.

In that sense it'd be much more interesting if it were called FossilFuelGate, or InternationalRealEstateGate. This is about much more than the 20th century competing nation-states narrative.

As for fake news: One problem is that 'social' media simply begs to be abused (because of their hypnotic effect on people). The other problem is that the establishment/mainstream narrative itself has a lot of fake aspects to it, if only because we live in a consumer culture. Too many people here faithfully regurgitate the establishment/Mainstream narrative.

In that sense we are all bots, being set up against each other, to benefit the very few.
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1724 on: November 16, 2017, 04:11:04 PM »
Lack of evidence ?
Let's recap :

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/technology/facebook-google-russia.html

Facebook :

Quote
Russian agents intending to sow discord among American citizens disseminated inflammatory posts that reached 126 million users on Facebook, published more than 131,000 messages on Twitter and uploaded over 1,000 videos to Google’s YouTube service, according to copies of prepared remarks from the companies

Twitter :

Quote
Twitter, in its prepared remarks, said it had discovered more than 2,700 accounts on its service that were linked to the Internet Research Agency between September 2016 and November 2016. Those accounts, which Twitter has suspended, posted roughly 131,000 tweets over that period.

Outside of the activity of the Internet Research Agency, Twitter identified more than 36,000 automated accounts that posted 1.4 million election-related tweets linked to Russia over that three-month period. The tweets received approximately 288 million views, according to the company’s remarks.

And 170 instagram accounts linked to Russian propaganda.

And then we have the many hacks :
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/2016-presidential-campaign-hacking-fast-facts/index.html

I count at least half a dozen hacks that have been attributed to Russian agents (like "Cozy Bear" and "Fancy Bear").

How much more evidence do you need to accept that Russia meddled in the US elections ?

That's what I call groupthink, and a lack of hard facts. The article in NYT is just terrible from that point of view: Always the same mistake, to conclude that it's 'Russia' or 'the Kremlin' or even 'Putin' when there was a Russian IP nr, or a Facebook or Twitter account registered in Russia.
Again, can you provide us with one single piece of hard fact evidence that the Russian state/Kremlin was behind these activities?
No-one seems to know who ordered these services from, eg., the Internet Research Agency (IRA). IRA belongs to a large media group called FAN. It's a private entity, it has all the licenses needed to provide various kinds of media services. It is NOT a state owned company, it has NO relation to Putin/Kremlin. It operates in a basically free market.
My hypothesis is that the IRA is involved in an alt-right network. They cooperate with Cambridge Analytica, owned by Mercer, and not too long ago Bannon was the CEO of CA. Nigel Farage is another key person. I think it's far more likely that it's that kind of alt-right network operating here, than that the Kremlin is involved.
The Guardian has had a series of articles on the matter, by a digging journalist, the latest one spells out some of these links:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/28/trump-assange-bannon-farage-bound-together-in-unholy-alliance
So, I ask again, does anyone know of some real evidence that it's 'Russia'/Russian government/kremlin behind all this?

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1725 on: November 16, 2017, 05:52:00 PM »
So, I ask again, does anyone know of some real evidence that it's 'Russia'/Russian government/kremlin behind all this?

Even if it is, or Russian intelligence or whatever, that doesn't mean that 'Russia' needs to be punished. It means that the persons/group who benefited from the actions of the government/FSB/IRA, need to be shown to the world, no matter what their passport is.

And this has to be applied to every form of corruption that is stimulated by concentrated wealth. But most of all, concentrated wealth needs to be deconcentrated by putting a cap on it.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1726 on: November 16, 2017, 07:04:26 PM »
RE:   Cap on wealth = impossible

As I stated a few months ago:

1). This would be the accountants full employment act.  The bean counters would love it.  In order to cap "wealth"....you have to basically audit the balance sheets of x percent of the population.  AND you have to attach FMV (fair market value) to ALL the assets and liabilities of that person at that point in time.

2). There are individuals/families that have interests in THOUSANDS of entities.  You also have to value those entities as well to come up with the individuals percentage of that entity.

I could go ON AND ON as to why that is totally unworkable.  Any CPA would tell you the same thing.

As I told you before.....you need to get off the idea of "wealth"...and concentrate on something that is at least workable and reasonably measurable on an annual basis...like income.

The highest tax bracket in the US used to be about 90% at one time.  In 1986 BEFORE the tax reform act of 1986 (October of 1986....I looked it up) the max individual rate was 50%. 

You can ignore that suggestion again...but you are wasting your time on something that is literally undoable.   I haven't even touched on the issues of valuing unique items that are not sold very often. like the Van Gogh painting that was bought for 450 million dollars ( I think it was a Van Gogh anyway...let me go check 🤥).

Your neighbor....Switzerland has the right idea, as they attempted to cap income of an individual as a multiple of the lowest earning person in a company.  That referendum was defeated...but is something I had already suggested ON THIS SITE even before I knew what Switzerland was trying to do.

So forget about WEALTH...and concentrate on income.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 07:36:12 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1727 on: November 16, 2017, 07:25:04 PM »
So, I ask again, does anyone know of some real evidence that it's 'Russia'/Russian government/kremlin behind all this?

Even if it is, or Russian intelligence or whatever, that doesn't mean that 'Russia' needs to be punished. It means that the persons/group who benefited from the actions of the government/FSB/IRA, need to be shown to the world, no matter what their passport is.

And this has to be applied to every form of corruption that is stimulated by concentrated wealth. But most of all, concentrated wealth needs to be deconcentrated by putting a cap on it.
Of course, punishing "the Russians" is secondary. It is about the Trump gang, about a broken democracy with a largely insane populace, about corruption, the globalization of the Russian mafia state, about the last stand of the fossil fuel industry, about our fucking planet, ...

Equating Russian oligarchy (centralized by Putin) with American billionaires (still diverse) is ridicu-lousy whataboutism.

Regarding the evidence: Someone seems to have been asleep last year. E.g. the change in the Republican party platform under Manafort? If this didn't smell fishy back then, just go back to sleep. The publicly known evidence is meanwhile growing exponentially, hard to keep up with. E.g. Papadopoulos. For the rest we have to wait for Mueller finishing his job. Here is a nice list: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/a-timeline-of-the-trump-russia-scandal-w511067
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 07:33:55 PM by Martin Gisser »

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1728 on: November 16, 2017, 07:43:31 PM »
It is NOT a state owned company, it has NO relation to Putin/Kremlin. It operates in a basically free market.
Hahaaahaha. Free market. Tell that to Magnitzky's widow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky

Quote
I think it's far more likely that it's that kind of alt-right network operating here, than that the Kremlin is involved.
It is both. That's the point.

Putin is doing this in many parts of the world. For some harder evidence, look at France. Le Pen's party funded by a Russian bank! https://www.politico.eu/article/marine-le-pen-may-have-lost-france-elections-but-the-kremlin-vladimir-putin-is-winning/

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1729 on: November 16, 2017, 08:35:55 PM »
The number of 80,000 posts is .000043 of all posts:

"Facebook’s general counsel, Colin Stretch, said in the written testimony that the 80,000 posts from Russia’s Internet Research Agency were a tiny fraction of content on Facebook, equal to one out of 23,000 posts.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-socialmedia/facebook-says-126-million-americans-may-have-seen-russia-linked-political-posts-idUSKBN1CZ2OI

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1730 on: November 16, 2017, 08:37:27 PM »
Piketty thinks that a tax on wealth is perfectly possible given political will in the USA and EU. I tend to trust Piketty more than blog comments bemoaning the impossibility of taxing wealth. As to the political will, let us see if it can be generated.

This conversation might be better on the Economic Inequality thread.

sidd

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1731 on: November 16, 2017, 08:51:41 PM »
The number of 80,000 posts is .000043 of all posts:

"Facebook’s general counsel, Colin Stretch, said in the written testimony that the 80,000 posts from Russia’s Internet Research Agency were a tiny fraction of content on Facebook, equal to one out of 23,000 posts.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-socialmedia/facebook-says-126-million-americans-may-have-seen-russia-linked-political-posts-idUSKBN1CZ2OI

sidd
Fraction of what content? Including cat videos? Or only political content?

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1732 on: November 16, 2017, 08:58:51 PM »
Good luck having an economist......a French economist.....tell other countries how to figure out an accounting issue.  I'm sure it would be well received in the US.  Econoists don't work in "black and white" detailed issues.  They deal in generalities and big pieces that are not well defined.

Cheers and good luck
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1733 on: November 16, 2017, 09:15:08 PM »
Your neighbor....Switzerland has the right idea, as they attempted to cap income of an individual as a multiple of the lowest earning person in a company.  That referendum was defeated...but is something I had already suggested ON THIS SITE even before I knew what Switzerland was trying to do.

EF Schumacher said it 30 years before you, and there probably was some classical economist who said 100 years before him. But that's not the subject of this thread.

The subject is Russiagate. Do you agree that the ultimate cause of it all is concentrated wealth trying to multiply itself?

Even if we can't solve the problem of concentrated wealth in any meaningful way ( I disagree), why can't we then discuss it as the root of most global problems? It's not like I'm invoking Satan or anything.

And if we agree that it's unlimited concentrated wealth as a concept that is the problem, why are we even discussing who the owners of it are? It doesn't matter! And it certainly doesn't matter to them. So why does it matter so much to us that we have to go online to the Arctic Sea Ice Forum to bash each other's heads in in their name?

Are we all crazy? Is it so easy to manipulate us?
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1734 on: November 16, 2017, 09:59:53 PM »
I think we (me/you/others) are clogging up this thread of RussiaGate. Concentrated wealth is a BIG ISSUE as I have stated MANY times.  And there are certainly core threads between RussiaGate and "concentrated wealth".  ABSOLUTELY.  But I'm NOT trying to "bash you".  I'm trying to keep you from wasting your time on THE METHOD you are trying to use.  As I have told you SEVERAL TIMES...you and I are much closer to wanting the same "type" or "same direction" of outcome that you want as well.

But instead of taking my individual points with merit...you dismiss them out of hand.  Everything seems simple from 40,000 feet.  It is QUITE a different scenario when the rubber meets the road.

BTW....the house passed a bill today that makes the wealth gap LARGER.



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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1735 on: November 16, 2017, 11:41:36 PM »
BTW....the house passed a bill today that makes the wealth gap LARGER.

Now, why would that be? Hint: the same thing that has caused Russiagate. But that kind of context seems to be taboo in the USA, because it interferes with the goal of replacing the ugly oligarch representative with one who has a nice face and makes us feel all warm inside, easy to identify with.

If your actions aren't rooted in the 40,000 feet view, chances are that you're just a bot working in the paving department of the road to hell project. Sometimes the devil literally is in the details. You can categorize everything nicely and pick your battles, but fragmentation can easily become obfuscation, even if intentions are noble. Because the end never justifies the means, even if the end is 'getting Trump out of office'. It leads to all kinds of double standards, hypocrisy and contortions to maintain untenable positions. All of it costing time, potentially backfiring, and causing a sideshow that directs attention away from other fragments/battles that matter more.

But of course, none of that applies if you're exceptional and the rest of the world just needs to shut its trap.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1736 on: November 17, 2017, 02:28:58 AM »
BTW....the house passed a bill today that makes the wealth gap LARGER.

Now, why would that be? Hint: the same thing that has caused Russiagate.
Was it Citizens United and the dark money of the Kochtopus? Tea Party voters fed up with Tea Party financiers? Whatabout-Hillary philosophers?
Quote
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

I wish good luck to all of the Republican candidates that traveled to California to beg for money etc. from the Koch Brothers. Puppets?

3:00 PM - Aug 2, 2015
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/us/politics/donald-trump-attacks-as-republican-rivals-court-donors-at-koch-retreat.html

So, then, where would Trump beg for help? Maybe a bit too much of a 40,000 feet view....

Methinks the cause of Russiagate is Trump and his links/dependency to Russian mafia. (Putin prudently seized the opportunity to help humiliate Hillary, his archenemy.)
 And the cause of Trump is a centuries long story:
Quote
Donald Trump is the logical outcome of America's fascination with irrationality
[...]
The pilgrims were our founding Puritan forebears. [...]
Fast forward several hundred years later, when the establishment stopped imposing a sense of order, rigor and fact checking on all of these factions, and it got out of control.
[...]
[Q:] How is President Donald Trump the embodiment of Fantasyland?

In almost every way. I started writing this book before he was running for president and turned in the draft before he had the nomination. So he just appeared as a kind of miraculous embodiment of everything I've been writing about.

He promiscuously throws around conspiracies — whatever comes across his mindscape.

It's this absolute seeming indifference to the truth. And whether he is lying or not is sort of not the most salient question. It's that he believes anything that is convenient at that second for him to believe and say.
[...]

People like the Koch brothers aren't fantasists at all. They are among the most reality-based people. [...]

They are cynics who understood how to exploit this easy belief in the untrue to their own ends. That's sort of adjacent to the worry about whether or not we have an operating democracy.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thesundayedition/the-sunday-edition-october-1-2017-1.4311896/donald-trump-is-the-logical-outcome-of-america-s-fascination-with-irrationality-1.4311993
(About Kurt Andersen's new book, Fantasyland https://www.kurtandersen.com/fantasyland )
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 02:45:49 AM by Martin Gisser »

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1737 on: November 17, 2017, 02:37:48 AM »
"But none of that applies if you are exceptional, and the rest of the world should just shut up."

Two airplanes are flying at 40,000 feet.  One airplane has a pilot 👩‍✈️ that has NEVER landed a plane....but from 40,000 it looks like it shouldn't be too difficult.  The pilot 👩‍✈️ in the other plane has 20 years of experience landing planes and not only knows how to fly a plane at 40,000 feet....but they also know how to approach the landing strip at the proper angle....and land the plane safely.

From 40,000 feet...we BOTH have the view that the wealth gap should be narrowed SIGNIFICANTLY.  But there are different ways to try and land the plane.  Some work better than others.

It doesn't take an "exceptional" CPA or tax attorney to understand the way you are trying to land the plane will lead to a crash.  It does require a CPA/tax attorney that has worked on a wealthy clientele where you may have clients with hundreds of K-1's and a multitude of assets that would ALL need to be valued.  ANY CPA/tax attorney would know your idea is unworkable.

You would have to have the VALUE of all 100+ companies that the individual is a partner is in.  Since FAIR MARKET VALUE is different than "cost" or "basis" that may be on the financial statements....you basically need to have the FMV of all the companies that person is a partner in.  UNWORKABLE and VERY EXPENSIVE when you multiply it by thousands of companies.

Each year individuals would need to get appraisals on all their houses...all their vehicles..all their paintings...all their trademarks....all their horses...all their boats...all their planes...etc.  EVERY YEAR.  Because values change...and can change significantly in just a year. HUGE changes in some cases.

There's other issues I can think of off the top of my head.  This DOESN'T take an "exceptional" person to figure this out.  Quite to the contrary.  But it does take someone who knows something about the details of the topic.  There's a reason I don't talk about the details of microbiology or think that even though I may be able to conseptualize something in biology at a 40,000 foot view...that I know my concept at 40,000 feet makes sense when I get down into the nitty gritty details.  I DONT.  I am smart enough to know when I am "out of my league" on a subject and I ask those with knowledge in the subject area.

You don't need to trust me.  Talk to other CPA's or TAX attorneys that have worked on many returns of the very wealthy.  I would suggest that they will give you the same answer.

I could make some snippy remarks....but I choose to pass on that.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1738 on: November 17, 2017, 03:19:31 AM »
For what it is worth.

Title: "Empathy gap"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathy_gap

Extract: "A hot-cold empathy gap is a cognitive bias in which people underestimate the influences of visceral drives on their own attitudes, preferences, and behaviors."
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1739 on: November 17, 2017, 04:17:43 AM »
That's what I call groupthink, and a lack of hard facts. The article in NYT is just terrible from that point of view: Always the same mistake, to conclude that it's 'Russia' or 'the Kremlin' or even 'Putin' when there was a Russian IP nr, or a Facebook or Twitter account registered in Russia.

In Putin's Russia, it is not unreasonable to assume that it is controlled by the Kremlin, or at least pro-Putin. Try to criticize Putin while in Russia, and see how that goes. Or ask Boris Nemtsov. Oh. never mind.
 
I ask again : What more evidence do you need that Russia interfered in the US 2016 elections ?
Or are you only convinced if the content came straight from Putin's laptop ?

Quote
No-one seems to know who ordered these services from, eg., the Internet Research Agency (IRA). IRA belongs to a large media group called FAN. It's a private entity, it has all the licenses needed to provide various kinds of media services. It is NOT a state owned company, it has NO relation to Putin/Kremlin. It operates in a basically free market.

I remember FAN from my research of the war in Ukraine back in 2014, since they were publishing aggressive anti-Ukraine propaganda. Disgusting propaganda even. I won't get into details, since that is outside of this thread's subject.

Any way, this is what I found out :
FAN's web site (riafan.ru) came on-line May 16 2014, so it is quite new (coincide with Russian aggression in Ukraine).
FAN is a subsidiary of Nevskiye Novosti, Petersburg.
The web site of Nevskiye Novosti (nevnov.ru) came on-line Aug 28, 2013.
This is just before the St. Petersburg mayor elections, and at that time various independent newspapers accused Nevskiye Novosti of smearing opposition candidates and promoting the most pro-Putin candidate.

Now, Nevskiye Novosti is owned by holding company Concord Consulting.
Concord is not a small operation. It's 2012 report shows that sold 92 billion rubels worth of goods (mostly food) for mostly government controlled entities like schools and the military.

Concord Consulting is owned by (and this will please Neven) a Russian oligarch called Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Yevgeny Prigozhin is a good friend (and dubbed "chef") to President Vladimir Putin.

So there is the whole line of influence.
Concord (Prigozhin) gets lucrative contracts (like providing catered food for public schools and the Russian military) and in return Prigozhin spreads pro-Putin propaganda via Nevskiye Novosti and FAN.

There is no evidence (for your hypothesis that) the US 'alt-right' has control over FAN.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1740 on: November 17, 2017, 05:33:20 AM »
CNN did a pretty good article about this last month, which confirms much of my 2014 research about FAN and the Internet Research Agency :

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/17/politics/russian-oligarch-putin-chef-troll-factory/index.html
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1741 on: November 17, 2017, 01:01:21 PM »
Senators: Kushner 'withheld WikiLeaks and Russia emails'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42019835

Just an innocent oversight?

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1742 on: November 17, 2017, 02:58:41 PM »
That's what I call groupthink, and a lack of hard facts. The article in NYT is just terrible from that point of view: Always the same mistake, to conclude that it's 'Russia' or 'the Kremlin' or even 'Putin' when there was a Russian IP nr, or a Facebook or Twitter account registered in Russia.

In Putin's Russia, it is not unreasonable to assume that it is controlled by the Kremlin, or at least pro-Putin. Try to criticize Putin while in Russia, and see how that goes. Or ask Boris Nemtsov. Oh. never mind.
 
I ask again : What more evidence do you need that Russia interfered in the US 2016 elections ?
Or are you only convinced if the content came straight from Putin's laptop ?

Quote
No-one seems to know who ordered these services from, eg., the Internet Research Agency (IRA). IRA belongs to a large media group called FAN. It's a private entity, it has all the licenses needed to provide various kinds of media services. It is NOT a state owned company, it has NO relation to Putin/Kremlin. It operates in a basically free market.

I remember FAN from my research of the war in Ukraine back in 2014, since they were publishing aggressive anti-Ukraine propaganda. Disgusting propaganda even. I won't get into details, since that is outside of this thread's subject.

Concord Consulting is owned by (and this will please Neven) a Russian oligarch called Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Yevgeny Prigozhin is a good friend (and dubbed "chef") to President Vladimir Putin.

So there is the whole line of influence.
Concord (Prigozhin) gets lucrative contracts (like providing catered food for public schools and the Russian military) and in return Prigozhin spreads pro-Putin propaganda via Nevskiye Novosti and FAN.

There is no evidence (for your hypothesis that) the US 'alt-right' has control over FAN.

First of all, I didn't say that some actors in the alt-right camp has "control" over FAN. I said, that they seem to be working together. You can think of it as a joint project. According to several articles in The Guardian, there are contacts/links between Cambridge Analytica and FAN/IRA. Of course, we don't know the exact nature of what is done, or who is doing what.
The media market in Russia is rather unregulated and people are free to set up businesses as they like. I  know from personal experience as running an internet business in St.Petersburg for several years, employing programmers etc.
Tell me now, if some part of Prigozhin's Concorde conglomerate is a catering provider for public entities, or even for Putin when he is in town, does that mean that Prigozhin has influence over the Kremlin's foreign policy?
Does that, in your world, constitute 'evidence'?
I'd say, one hypothesis is as good as the other. Only that a big part of 'Russiagate' (trolling of social media) is built on this very weak assumption.
Even if, as you claim, they are 'friends', it's a pretty long shot to say that Prigozhin is part of forming Russian foreign policy.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1743 on: November 17, 2017, 03:26:37 PM »
Senators: Kushner 'withheld WikiLeaks and Russia emails'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42019835

Just an innocent oversight?
It strongly indicates consciousness of guilt.

(If the Trump team interactions with Russia were so innocent, why is everybody constantly lying and denying? E.g. why is even the Attorney General risking being accused of perjury?)

-----------
Here's something about the Russian troll factory "attacking" in Finland:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/31/world/europe/russia-finland-nato-trolls.html
They are clearly part of a disinformation war, which is as intensive as during the Cold War.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1744 on: November 17, 2017, 03:49:00 PM »
BTW, the U.S. also has its troll factories, called "think tanks". Unlike the Russian trolls, they are operating in the open and are even better financed and equipped by the U.S. oligarchy.

They are working so glaringly open that they are not seen for what they are. They are not hiding behind social media fake personae. Some of their slimy trolls even worked for Republican administrations, testified in Congress, discussed in newspapers, ... E.g. Myron Ebell.

Many of us have fought their climate bullshit for many years. These troll factories have innocent names like "Heritage Foundation", "Competitive Enterprise Institute", "Americans for Prosperity", etc. etc.


Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1745 on: November 17, 2017, 03:57:16 PM »
I said, that they seem to be working together. You can think of it as a joint project.
Right. Thus the accusations of treason. There's the scandal, the -gate in Russiagate.

Quote
does that mean that Prigozhin has influence over the Kremlin's foreign policy?
[...]
it's a pretty long shot to say that Prigozhin is part of forming Russian foreign policy.
He is a "general" in Putin's disinfo-psycho war.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1746 on: November 17, 2017, 09:20:53 PM »
Kaspersky publishes on Sep 2014 detection of NSA malware. One of the more interesting lists of malware is the 121 non Equation group malware discovered on the same comuter. That thing was riddled.

https://securelist.com/investigation-report-for-the-september-2014-equation-malware-detection-incident-in-the-us/83210/

NSA screwed up big time here.

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1747 on: November 17, 2017, 11:11:35 PM »
Just Security provides a curated summary of recent developments on Russigate:

https://www.justsecurity.org/47165/early-edition-november-17-2017/

Extract: TRUMP-RUSSIA

Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner failed to hand over a document about a “Russian backdoor overture” to the Senate Judiciary Committee, according to a letter sent by committee chairman Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) and ranking Democrat Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) yesterday, Michael S. Schmidt reports at the New York Times.

Kushner also failed to provide documents relating to an email he was sent in September 2016 about WikiLeaks and communications he had had with Belarusian-American businessman Sergei Millian who claimed close connections to the Trumps and was the source of salacious details in a dossier based on Trump’s 2013 trip to Moscow. Karoun Demirjian reports at the Washington Post.
Documents relating to Kushner’s security clearance were also requested, Kushner’s security clearance form has come under increasing scrutiny within the context of the Russia investigations. Daniella Diaz reports at CNN.

The Senate Judiciary Committee became aware of the documents through other witnesses, and a lawyer for Kushner has said that the president’s son-in-law was “open to responding to any additional requests.” The BBC reports.

Grassley and Feinstein’s letter called on Kushner to turn over all responsive documents by Nov. 27 and asked Kushner’s lawyer to resolve issues that might “implicate the president’s Executive privilege.” Kyle Cheney reports at POLITICO.

Kushner remains a person of interest in the investigations into Trump-Russia connections, according to an anonymous source familiar with the probes; investigators are keen to discover how much Kushner was involved with, or knew of, the efforts of Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn or others to lift U.S. sanctions on Russia. Jonathan Landay and Patricia Zengerle report at Reuters.

The Trump campaign former foreign policy adviser Carter Page delivered a bundle of documents under subpoena to the House and Senate Intelligence Committees yesterday, Page was recently interviewed by both committees as part of the investigations into Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. election. Katie Bo Williams reports at the Hill.

The former Russian ambassador to the U.S. Sergey Kislyak declined to name all of the Trump officials he had contact with, saying in an interview earlier this week that “the list is so ling that I’m not going to be able to get through it in 20 minutes.” Tucker Higgins reports at CNBC.
A worker paid by the Russian “troll factory,” the Internet Research Agency, has described how the organization churned out misinformation to meet specific quotas. Ben Popken and Kelly Cobiella report at NBC News.

The White House communications director Hope Hicks may be a key witness in special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation into connections between the Trump campaign and Russia, having been part of Trump’s “inner circle” for years and been at the president’s side as the Russia scandal has unfolded. Mueller has requested an interview with Hicks but a date for questioning has not yet been revealed, Darren Samuelsohn explains at POLITICO.

The investigations into Trump-Russia connections reveal a “spectacular accumulation of lies,” from lies at confirmation hearings to lying to the F.B.I., demonstrating a lack of respect for ethics and morality which has spread to all aspects of the Trump administration. Michael Gerson writes at the Washington Post."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1748 on: November 17, 2017, 11:49:31 PM »
The linked article highlights not only how Mueller is using FARA in Russiagate, but also how FARA needs to be strengthened to help fight future meddling of foreign states in U.S. affairs:

Title: "A 'Toothless' Old Law Could Have New Fangs, Thanks To Robert Mueller"

https://www.npr.org/2017/11/17/563737981/a-toothless-old-law-could-have-new-fangs-thanks-to-robert-mueller

Extract: "From 1966 to 2017, the Justice Department sought just seven prosecutions under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA, which requires Americans working on behalf of foreign governments, foreign political parties, or any person or organization outside the U.S., to disclose who is paying them to do what.

In the case of Manafort and Gates, they were charged with lobbying on behalf of the pro-Russian former president of Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, and not registering as required with the Justice Department. They were also charged with laundering millions of dollars, conspiring against the U.S. and tax fraud.

FARA was enacted in 1938 to combat Nazi and communist propaganda spouting up on the front end of World War II. It doesn't make propaganda illegal, but instead requires "persons acting as agents of foreign principals in a political or quasi-political capacity" to reveal the connections they have abroad, including their finances.

Grassley and Rep. Mike Johnson, R-La., recently introduced identical legislation in both the House and Senate that would amend FARA and give investigators the power to issue CIDs. It would also charge the Justice Department with developing a "comprehensive strategy" to improve enforcement, call for more frequent filings from FARA registrants and end the Lobbying Disclosure Act exemption.

"Given recent Russian and other efforts to influence our elections," Grassley said, "this law has never been more important.""
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #1749 on: November 18, 2017, 05:57:03 AM »
I  know from personal experience as running an internet business in St.Petersburg for several years, employing programmers etc.

Hefaistos, thank you. That explains part of your pro-Russian stand on the issues.
Incidentally, where are you posting from now ?
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