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Author Topic: The Russiagate conspiracy theory  (Read 1120575 times)

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2150 on: December 27, 2017, 08:25:26 PM »
The linked article indicates that Mueller will likely soon file a superseding indictments against Manafort & Gates that will replace the earlier indictments; which will add more charges:

Title: "Robert Mueller May Indict Paul Manafort Again"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/robert-mueller-may-indict-paul-manafort-again

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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2151 on: December 27, 2017, 08:37:47 PM »
The linked article discusses Trump's apparent violation of the emolument clause:

Title: " Trump Is Running A 'Criminal Enterprise' And Mueller Is 'On the Track of It,' Says Former DNC Chair"

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-running-criminal-enterprise-and-mueller-track-it-says-former-dnc-chair-760129

Extract: "… according to former Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean, who says President Donald Trump is using his office not to benefit the American people, but to personally enrich himself as part of a "criminal enterprise.""
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2152 on: December 28, 2017, 02:43:52 AM »
Reportedly there are some initial rumblings from the Trump lawyers about Michael Flynn being a liar.  And I thought Moron Don was his pal.  Amazing what a little information can do.

Let's see how much trash talking there is from the Trump side over the next several weeks.  In WST (Watergate Standard Time 😳) we still have about 3 months until the Republicans started to drift away from Tricky Dick.  So let's see if anything of interest shakes loose...that might shake a couple of Republicans loose from their support of Donnie Boy.

If I were Jarred.... I would start wearing shirts with looser collars....because there are BOUND to be some trying times ahead for our worthless real estate developer WANNABE.... and I wouldn't want him to choke as the game clock winds done.....
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 02:51:05 AM by Buddy »
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2153 on: December 28, 2017, 02:57:16 AM »
I did have ONE WISH to Santa this year:  Please allow me to be caddying for Donnie next year when he gets the call that Donnie Jr or Ivanka are being arrested.  Oh please...oh please....  I want to see just how far down the fairway that Donnie can throw his driver.😳🏌🏻
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2154 on: December 28, 2017, 06:36:22 AM »
Federal judge slapped down an emoluments lawsuit already. Mebbe a different court from Southern district NY will not, but it is guaranteed to go to the Supremes if they allow a hearing.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-emoluments-clause-lawsuit-20171221-story.html

Even Dean qualifies in the previously linked newsweek article: "But Dean said the emoluments clause was a "far-flung argument" to nail Trump"

sidd

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2155 on: December 28, 2017, 01:48:21 PM »
Federal judge slapped down an emoluments lawsuit already. Mebbe a different court from Southern district NY will not, but it is guaranteed to go to the Supremes if they allow a hearing.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-trump-emoluments-clause-lawsuit-20171221-story.html

Those reading the article will note that the suit was dismissed not because it lacked merit, but because the plaintiffs lacked standing; the judge stated that only Congress could officially say whether the President was in violation. That is a massive distinction, though, so I'm not surprised Trump's supporters here wouldn't mention it.

Legal scholar after legal scholar has analyzed what's going on and come to the same conclusion: the President continues to defy the Constitution and violate the Emoluments clause on a daily--if not hourly--basis. Of course, with the chickenshit GOP running the show for the next 370 days or so, there's not a thing that will happen.

After that? Trump's nascent banana republic will either be brought to a hasty end by the only party that's actually patriotic--the Democrats--or the nation will founder under its top-down corruption. And deservedly so.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2156 on: December 28, 2017, 09:01:13 PM »
The subject of the linked article may lead to proof that Putin ordered the hacking of the DNC:

Title: "Russian Hacker Says He Left Fingerprints on His DNC Hack in Bid to Bolster His Story That Putin Ordered It"

www.newsweek.com/russian-hacker-claims-theres-proof-he-hacked-dnc-761727
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2157 on: December 28, 2017, 09:20:11 PM »
It will be interesting to see where this investigation of the joint RNC-Trump campaign leads:

Title: "Mueller's team to question former RNC officials on Russia"

https://www.axios.com/muellers-team-to-question-former-rnc-officials-on-russia-2520469968.html

Extract: "Yahoo News' Michael Isikoff first reported that Mueller's prosecutors are interested in "the party digital operation that worked with the Trump campaign to target voters in key swing states."

Isikoff adds: "They are seeking to determine if the joint [RNC-Trump campaign] effort was related to the activities of Russian trolls and bots aimed at influencing the American electorate..."

Isikoff says some of these interviews have already happened."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2158 on: December 28, 2017, 09:27:58 PM »
" ...  Trump's supporters here wouldn't mention it."

is that supposed to be an insinuation that I am a "Trump supporter ?"

In that case, i will state, for the record, that I am not now and have never been one such.

sidd

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2159 on: December 29, 2017, 05:37:06 AM »
Sidd, Jim Pettit has a point.
Why did you leave out the reason that the lawsuit was dismissed ?

After all it was quite clearly mentioned in your reference :

Quote
But Judge George Daniels of the Southern District of New York ruled that the plaintiffs, led by the government watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW), lacked standing to bring such a case, saying it was up to Congress to prevent the president from accepting emoluments.

By leaving that part out, and by bringing in that Dean argument (unreferenced) that "the emoluments clause was a "far-flung argument" to nail Trump" you are spreading misleading or at least biased information on this fine forum.
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2160 on: December 29, 2017, 05:46:46 AM »
"Jim Pettit has a point"

That point is that the lawsuit was dismissed for lack of standing. How does that lead to the conclusion that I am a Trump supporter ?

"Why did you leave out the reason that the lawsuit was dismissed ?"

Perhaps because i trust that the readers of my comments can read the article by themselves and do not need me to reproduce the whole thing ? And that I do not need to make arguments i don't see as germane ?  My points were that the emolument lawsuit was dismissed by a federal judge, that it might be successful in a different venue, but that if it had been upheld it would be appealed all the way, and that Mr. Dean agrees with me that emolument lawsuits are a thin hope for Trump attack.  If I am to b accused on the basis that I did not address a point that some might wish to see discussed , I suggest they raise it themselves, without inferences as to my motivations. For example, a discussion on which of the remaining emolument lawsuits might be successful in their respective venues is one in which I might even participate.

" Dean argument (unreferenced) "

That statement was in the original article from newsweek posted by AbruptSLR as I stated in my post. So apparently, I was mistaken, some here do not in fact read the articles, and my trust seems misplaced. Nevertheless, I shall continue to trust in the literacy of most of my readers.

"you are spreading misleading or at least biased information on this fine forum."

I will leave it to Neven to make that judgement. For others incensed by my failures to toe the party line, i suggest that they killfile me.

sidd

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 06:10:11 AM by sidd »

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2161 on: December 29, 2017, 06:08:08 AM »
I don't want to make a big deal out of this, but at the very least you could have added the reason the lawsuit was dismissed, and added some context to the Dean argument. Like this, from the Newsweek article :

Quote
But Dean said the emoluments clause was a "far-flung argument" to nail Trump. Instead, he was putting his faith in special counsel Robert Mueller's probe into Russian collusion in the 2016 election, which is possibly branching out into Trump's financial house of cards.

"I think he's running a criminal enterprise out of the White House, and I think that's what Bob Mueller's on the track of," Dean said.

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Bruce Steele

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2162 on: December 29, 2017, 09:54:12 AM »
Rob, I am about sick of the thought police crap. Sidd happens to be one of the best sourced commenters on this forum. He lives in the part of the country that happens to also have plenty of Trump supporters . I would trust that he would be able to sort through the politics of his neighbors whilst maintain a civil relationship with them.
 Even if we did have a Trump supporter here on the forum , and I don't know who they are , I would hope we could look at whatever they might have to contribute here without resorting to witch hunt tactics.
 Fairness and an open mind are important attributes IMO. I have good friends that are Trump supporters and as much as I wish they would change their mind(s) I am not going to walk away from people I have known my whole life just because I don't agree with their political affiliations. I also have liberal friends I consider misguided but I apply the same standard to my friendships with them.
They are my friends, they are willing to go out of their way to help me even though they understand my political views. And sometimes Rob I consider it the greatest compliment to be trusted by my political foes. In the harbor where I spent a major portion of my life even my enemies would put their boats and lives in peril to save me if they knew they needed to. That my friend is a place worth living in.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2163 on: December 29, 2017, 10:06:38 PM »
Donald has the "grounds crew" ready to work again on the football field (US football).

First....Donnie said neither he nor any of his staff communicated with Russians.  Well.....that was a "whopper" that didn't last very long as person after person in Donnies administration were found to have communicated with.....Russians.

Second....Donnie said they may have communicated, but they didn't "collude".  Well....we have seen that one coming apart at the seems over the last several weeks....so Donnie is getting ready to have his grounds crew move the "goal posts" one more time.

Third.....Donnie now says that even if he did collude with the Russians....it wouldn't be illegal. :o

https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-once-again-denies-150800181.html


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Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2164 on: December 29, 2017, 10:27:29 PM »
Buddy, you fucked-up this entire planet with your globalisation.

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2165 on: December 29, 2017, 10:44:52 PM »
It will be interesting to see where this investigation of the joint RNC-Trump campaign leads:

Title: "Mueller's team to question former RNC officials on Russia"

https://www.axios.com/muellers-team-to-question-former-rnc-officials-on-russia-2520469968.html

Extract: "Yahoo News' Michael Isikoff first reported that Mueller's prosecutors are interested in "the party digital operation that worked with the Trump campaign to target voters in key swing states."

Isikoff adds: "They are seeking to determine if the joint [RNC-Trump campaign] effort was related to the activities of Russian trolls and bots aimed at influencing the American electorate..."

Isikoff says some of these interviews have already happened."

If it leads to key RNC official and GOP congressional leadership, then this only guarantees that the GOP will continue to close ranks to protect Trump and take no action on any of Mueller’s findings, primarily out of self interest and attempts to retain power.  That they won’t act on emoluments issues is further evidence they intend to do nothing except protect Trump.  The emoluments clause is useless if there is no willingness to activate it against a President who violates it in plain sight.

The GOP should be eviscerated in the midterms, but there is still time to undermine free and fair elections either through their own power or with an assist from the Kremlin.

ivica

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2166 on: December 29, 2017, 11:07:42 PM »
sometimes i wonder how many of those ruskigate articles are actually from trump think-tanks, to raise popularity?  with brain-hurt after reading them how many felt sympathy/something-positive for him and/or opposite for opposition? :o

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2167 on: December 29, 2017, 11:15:33 PM »

If it leads to key RNC official and GOP congressional leadership, then this only guarantees that the GOP will continue to close ranks to protect Trump and take no action on any of Mueller’s findings, primarily out of self interest and attempts to retain power.  That they won’t act on emoluments issues is further evidence they intend to do nothing except protect Trump.  The emoluments clause is useless if there is no willingness to activate it against a President who violates it in plain sight.

The GOP should be eviscerated in the midterms, but there is still time to undermine free and fair elections either through their own power or with an assist from the Kremlin.


Full agreement, especially on the bolded items.
As had earlier been commented, the judge that ruled for Trump on the emoluments case has rendered that moot, unless the (Right Wing) Supreme Court is expected to reverse his ruling.
The party out of power is expected to gain seats during mid-terms, and may well win a majority. The Senate however will almost certainly stay in Republican hands, so Trump will be in power until at least the 2020 elections.
We may yet be spared a Pence Presidency. :)
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2168 on: December 29, 2017, 11:29:30 PM »
Maybe Pence will use Trump's medical examination in mid-January as justification to invoke the 25th Amendment (if Trump refuses to step-down due to health concerns as an escape hatch from the Russiagate investigation):

Title: "Donald Trump’s Mental Faculties Continue to Erode"

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/12/donald-trumps-mental-faculties-continue-to-erode/#

Extract: "This simply is not a man in full control of his mental faculties. He’s always been narcissistic and blowhardish, but over the course of the interview he’s completely unable to stay focused on a topic for even a few seconds. He veers off into his Electoral College win constantly. He stops to insist there’s no Russian collusion at least a dozen times. He displays no knowledge of anything. It’s like talking to a third-grader."
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2169 on: December 29, 2017, 11:30:52 PM »
sometimes i wonder how many of those ruskigate articles are actually from trump think-tanks, to raise popularity?  with brain-hurt after reading them how many felt sympathy/something-positive for him and/or opposite for opposition? :o


Cheering for the underdog has a long and honored tradition. The "Deplorables" see themselves as underdogs, valiantly fighting the powers of darkness. A position not far removed from that of the peaceniks of the 60's, who also saw themselves as fighting "The Man".
Had Trump lost the election, where would we be as Hillary's first year as President was winding down?


Terry

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2170 on: December 29, 2017, 11:42:44 PM »
Maybe Pence will use Trump's medical examination in mid-January as justification to invoke Amendment 25 (if Trump refuses to step-down due to health concerns as an escape hatch from the Russiagate investigation):


During Reagan's second term the bar was lowered substantially. Personally I've questioned The Lesser Bush's competency from day one.  :(


Reagan proved that a President didn't have to understand the speech he was reading, "W" proved that a President didn't have to be able to read.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2171 on: December 29, 2017, 11:50:32 PM »
Reagan proved that a President didn't have to understand the speech he was reading, "W" proved that a President didn't have to be able to read.

I note that neither one of those administrations needed an escape hatch from being investigated by a Special Counsel; and that necessity is the mother of invention.
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ivica

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2172 on: December 29, 2017, 11:58:47 PM »
sometimes i wonder how many of those ruskigate articles are actually from trump think-tanks, to raise popularity?  with brain-hurt after reading them how many felt sympathy/something-positive for him and/or opposite for opposition? :o


Cheering for the underdog has a long and honored tradition. The "Deplorables" see themselves as underdogs, valiantly fighting the powers of darkness. A position not far removed from that of the peaceniks of the 60's, who also saw themselves as fighting "The Man".
Had Trump lost the election, where would we be as Hillary's first year as President was winding down?


Terry

my personal/local fear was about fracking set in my neighborhood, with fracking-queen no more i may be spared of that.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2173 on: December 30, 2017, 01:13:42 AM »
The Mothers of Invention, brought Zappa to psychedelic success. Not easy with such material as "Please don't eat the yellow snow".


In my little corner of the world I don't fear fracking, and didn't even fear donations to the Clinton Foundation. Then I read that we not only donated millions as another uranium deal was secured, but that they lied, saying they couldn't release the names of the donors because of a non-existent Canadian Law.


http://business.financialpost.com/news/fp-street/the-clinton-foundation-failed-to-disclose-1100-foreign-donations-most-of-them-from-canada

It's old news now, but had Hillary won, just how high would the donations have been just to gain hope orf access? Would "The Foundation" have reached Assimovian proportions, with Bitcoin still languishing in the rubble?

Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2174 on: December 30, 2017, 08:19:46 AM »
Terry, still pissing on the Clinton foundation, eh ?
Don't you know that the Clintons are now regular citizens ?
Either way :

...saying they couldn't release the names of the donors because of a non-existent Canadian Law.

I'm not an expert in Canadian law, but I did come across the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-8.6/page-1.html#h-1

Quote
The purpose of this Part is to establish, in an era in which technology increasingly facilitates the circulation and exchange of information, rules to govern the collection, use and disclosure of personal information in a manner that recognizes the right of privacy of individuals with respect to their personal information and the need of organizations to collect, use or disclose personal information for purposes that a reasonable person would consider appropriate in the circumstances.

May this be the law they refer to ?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2017, 08:53:38 AM by Rob Dekker »
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2175 on: December 30, 2017, 09:20:40 AM »
I'd assume that they were referring to the law mentioned in the article I posted, the one that defends donors from being exposed by those who would sell the names of their donors.
This was discussed by Canadian lawyers in the article I'd posted, and certainly would be misconstrued if applied here.


A rather shocking lack of transparency on Hillary's part, and having it exposed during the campaign must have cost her some votes.


Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2176 on: December 30, 2017, 09:38:42 AM »
I'd assume that they were referring to the law mentioned in the article I posted,

You mean that law that you previously claimed to be a "non-existent Canadian Law." ?

Which law, if not the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act that I mentioned are you talking about ?
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2177 on: December 30, 2017, 12:47:46 PM »
Regardless, bringing up the Clinton Foundation (a well-respected charity) is off-topic.
Slamming it is inflammatory, ill-advised, and probably an example of "whatabout-ism."

Shall we get back on topic?  A Russian hacker in detention says he was instructed to hack into the DNC servers by Putin's FSB, and says he can prove it:

Jailed Russian says he hacked DNC on Kremlin’s orders and can prove it
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article191857354.html

Quote
The alleged hacker posted to his Facebook page in December a transcript and an audio recording of his confession during a pre-trial court hearing. He also confessed online to having hacked investigators looking into the crash of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, brought down in July 2014 by a missile near the disputed Ukrainian border with Russia.
. . .
Kozlovsky said he feared his minders might turn on him and planted a “poison pill” during the DNC hack. He placed a string of numbers that are his Russian passport number and the number of his visa to visit the Caribbean island of St. Martin in a hidden .dat file, which is a generic data file.

Comments?

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2178 on: December 30, 2017, 01:20:08 PM »
Well thank heaven the speculation is over.


All that's required is for someone/anyone to verify his claim and the investigations will be brought to a halt.


Next topic?  ::)
Terry

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2179 on: December 30, 2017, 01:50:27 PM »
If I were Terry.... I would ask for a raise from Donnie.  As much time as he spends protecting Donnie and trying to minimize RussiaGate.... I think Terry has more than earned it.😉
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2180 on: December 30, 2017, 02:03:38 PM »
If I were Terry.... I would ask for a raise from Donnie.  As much time as he spends protecting Donnie and trying to minimize RussiaGate.... I think Terry has more than earned it.😉

Slamming other posters is off-topic and inappropriate.
Buddy, I tend to agree with your stated opinions.  However, your posts are quite problematic. 
PLEASE, if you're going to comment on developments in the news, please provide a link as to what the heck you're talking about. Stream-of-consciousness opinion spouting isn't worthwhile discourse, and this it's an insult to the audience. And don't criticize other posters. Please.

Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2181 on: December 30, 2017, 02:13:22 PM »
And Buddy, you shoud'nt worry about russiagate at all. These developed countries are full with aging infrastructure. The only thing it takes to bring it all down is a longer and stronger heatwave, or a longer and stronger coldfront, some extra rainfall.... And that's exactly what we are going to get in the next years.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2182 on: December 30, 2017, 05:47:20 PM »

Shall we get back on topic?  A Russian hacker in detention says he was instructed to hack into the DNC servers by Putin's FSB, and says he can prove it:

Jailed Russian says he hacked DNC on Kremlin’s orders and can prove it
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article191857354.html

Comments?

The quality of that info should be doubted, pretty strange that a prisoner who sits in a high security prison is allowed to give TV interviews, and have access to internet, as pointed out in this article:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2017/12/12/new-information-about-russian-officials-orchestrating-the-dnc-hack-could-be-designed-to-pin-the-cyber-attack-on-the-u-s-government

Maybe this story is like a Russian doll? Who knows who is hidden inside?

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2183 on: December 30, 2017, 06:30:31 PM »
Steve:

Quote
Slamming other posters is off-topic and inappropriate.
Buddy, I tend to agree with your stated opinions.  However, your posts are quite problematic. 

PLEASE, if you're going to comment on developments in the news, please provide a link as to what the heck you're talking about.

Stream-of-consciousness opinion spouting isn't worthwhile discourse, and this it's an insult to the audience.

And don't criticize other posters. Please.

I'll take your four points one at a time:

First:  I disagree.  If Terry wants to continually post defense of Donnie....WITHOUT ANY PROOF....WITHOUT ANY LINKS.....then Terry should EXPECT some shots across the bow at him.  I certainly have taken MY SHARE...without any bitching.  I think Terry is a big boy and he can take care of himself.  My shots at Terry have been MILD by the looks at many other "attacks."

Second:  Regarding posting links.  I'll agree that is a valid point....although many times my references are very brief (and intended to be brief).  But I'll give you that one.... ::)  Note to file....see how criticism can work some times.  ;)

Third:  RE:  "Stream-of-consciousness opinion spouting isn't worthwhile discourse, and this it's an insult to the audience."

If you think that my posts are "stream-of-consciousness opinion spouting"....I have a suggestion for you:  PUT ME ON IGNORE.  And I don't say that maliciously......or in a snarky manner.  I TRULY MEAN IT.  I have a few folks on ignore...because I don't want them to clutter up things...and I don't want to waste time on them.  If I can't learn anything from someone...OR...I can't help someone else learn something....I put them on ignore.  Life is too short to listen to someone you think is a constant "stream-of-consciousness opinion spouter."

Fourth:  RE: Don't criticize other posters.  I DEFINITELY DISAGREE WITH THAT ONE.  In fact....I WELCOME criticism.  Criticism is a HEALTHY THING.  In fact.....I know an ORANGE DUDE that doesn't like criticism....and we all know how he has turned out. :o  You think a LOT more criticism of Moron Don by his lieutenants  might actually be GOOD FOR HIM?  Think on that one for a while......

So....I hope NOBODY ever stops criticizing me....or my positions.  Strong people with well thought out positions should be able to take a LOT OF HEAT.   Now....certainly there are "boundaries" which shouldn't be crossed....but I don't think I am anywhere CLOSE to any personal boundaries on any of my entries regarding getting "too personal" in an "attack" on someone.





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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2184 on: December 30, 2017, 06:39:42 PM »
Mr Vice President, what did you know, and when did you know it?

Title: "Will Mueller Charge Mike Pence or Donald Trump Jr. In Russia Investigation in 2018?"

http://www.newsweek.com/pence-trump-jr-mueller-charge-2018-765287

Extract: "Based on reports, it’s possible the president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., and Vice President Mike Pence could be engulfed in Mueller’s investigation in the New Year."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2185 on: December 30, 2017, 06:54:38 PM »
I think that this two-day old story deserves to be mentioned again, as if it bares fruit, it could put a lot of Republicans in jail:

Title: "Mueller Probing Whether Trump Digital Team Aided Russian Disinformation Campaign"

http://amp.nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/mueller-probing-whether-trump-team-aided-russian-trolls.html

Extract: "Mueller’s team is trying to determine if members of the Trump campaign and Republican National Committee, who worked together on the digital arm of Trump’s campaign, provided assistance to Russian trolls attempting to influence voters. It’s the latest scare for Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, who managed the digital campaign and has already come under scrutiny by the special counsel for his foreign contacts."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2186 on: December 30, 2017, 07:16:43 PM »
Alexander....

Quote
And Buddy, you shoud'nt worry about russiagate at all. These developed countries are full with aging infrastructure. The only thing it takes to bring it all down is a longer and stronger heatwave, or a longer and stronger coldfront, some extra rainfall.... And that's exactly what we are going to get in the next years.

While I obviously don't agree with your thought on RussiaGate....I AM in agreement that we are continuing our headlong dive into a very nasty state of things.  This year it was California.....the entire western US is getting "primed" for a very rough time.  Colorado is a beetle infested forest waiting to be torched....and Boulder, Golden, and other cities could be easy pickings for a nasty wildfire....

And while Moron Don is making light of the snowfall and cold temperatures in the US.....you and I both know that the snowfall AND the cold are "global warming induced":

1)  Less ice cover on Lake Erie leads to more days of lake effect snow....not to mention the additional water vapor in the air caused by global warming.

2)  Moron Don....while he is quick with a quip about global warming.....didn't tell people in the US that the number of new daily record HIGH temperatures in the US in December has been 1,237 while the number of new daily record LOW temperatures in the US in December has only been 100......through December 26th.  That is a ratio of more than 12 to 1 in new record highs to new record lows.

Now....when the numbers are posted for the 27th - 31st the ratio will be brought down SOME...but not a lot.  There were still WAY more record high temps set in December than there were record low temps.

http://climatechangegraphs.blogspot.com/2012/08/ratio-of-new-record-daily-high-temps-to_30.html

3)  The "dips" in the jet stream that allows the cold air to come down from the Artic....is likely caused by the warming of the earth and the change in the jet stream and its now "loopy" configuration.

Just a couple things I'm sure that Donnie just "forgot" to mention.......
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2187 on: December 30, 2017, 07:17:55 PM »
The Young Turks are at it again!


https://tytnetwork.com/2017/12/27/anyone-of-russian-descent-now-targeted-in-senate-investigation/



Apparently Mueller's Mandate is expanded, and his investigation now covers "Anyone of Russian Nationality or Russian Descent".


IIRC the Russian American population makes up some ~1% of the country's populace. A broad mandate indeed.


A few aged Japanese, Germans and Italians might recall the days when they too were singled out, prior to being shipped off to their respective camps.


They came for the Russians, but I was not a Russian.
Terry

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2188 on: December 30, 2017, 07:19:23 PM »
Quote
I think that this two-day old story deserves to be mentioned again, as if it bares fruit, it could put a lot of Republicans in jail:

Title: "Mueller Probing Whether Trump Digital Team Aided Russian Disinformation Campaign"

Agreed.....I think that will break open in the "not too distant" future....month or two.  RussiaGate is like an Octopus on steroids...  It keeps growing more and more arms, and they get bigger and bigger.

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Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2189 on: December 30, 2017, 07:57:21 PM »
The Young Turks are at it again!


https://tytnetwork.com/2017/12/27/anyone-of-russian-descent-now-targeted-in-senate-investigation/



Apparently Mueller's Mandate is expanded, and his investigation now covers "Anyone of Russian Nationality or Russian Descent".


IIRC the Russian American population makes up some ~1% of the country's populace. A broad mandate indeed.


A few aged Japanese, Germans and Italians might recall the days when they too were singled out, prior to being shipped off to their respective camps.


They came for the Russians, but I was not a Russian.
Terry

Yeah, Ugyur over at TYT seems to have as big a blind spot on Russian hacking the 2016 election as he does on the Armenian genocide (or, for that matter, his despicable public misogyny). At any rate, the headline (and subsequent article) is misleading. The definition of "Russian" wasn't a blanket statement applicable to everyone in the country;  it was intended for one specific person, Charles C. Johnson. I'm of the opinion that TYT is nothing more than a pseudo-progressive reflection of Breitbart.

It's both humorous and disturbing that so many are intent on giving both Putin and Trump a pass on last year's attack. Luckily, many patriots aren't, and won't ever.


Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2191 on: December 30, 2017, 08:17:30 PM »
Half the democratic party is going to end in jail.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2192 on: December 30, 2017, 08:43:43 PM »
NYT reporting today that it was in fact NOT the dossier that led the FBI to open the Russia investigation WRT the Trump campaign.  Big news.


gerontocrat

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2193 on: December 30, 2017, 08:45:27 PM »
The Young Turks are at it again!

Apparently Mueller's Mandate is expanded, and his investigation now covers "Anyone of Russian Nationality or Russian Descent".

IIRC the Russian American population makes up some ~1% of the country's populace. A broad mandate indeed.
In that film where Hollywood showed what it could really do on a good day - called "The Deer Hunter" - the protagonists came from a US Steel Town mainly composed of Russian immigrants and their descendants.

Ironic or just very sad.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2194 on: December 30, 2017, 09:25:17 PM »
NYT reporting today that it was in fact NOT the dossier that led the FBI to open the Russia investigation WRT the Trump campaign.  Big news.

Thanks for this.  The article lays out the origins of the FBI investigation, and the Steele dossier is just not a part of the story.  The full article
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

Quote
The information that Mr. Papadopoulos gave to the Australians answers one of the lingering mysteries of the past year: What so alarmed American officials to provoke the F.B.I. to open a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump campaign months before the presidential election?

Note that this investigation was kept quiet by the FBI, where inquiries into Hillary's server were leaked.  Institutionally, the FBI was clearly favoring Trump over Clinton, and not the reverse.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2195 on: December 30, 2017, 09:28:45 PM »

 At any rate, the headline (and subsequent article) is misleading. The definition of "Russian" wasn't a blanket statement applicable to everyone in the country;  it was intended for one specific person, Charles C. Johnson.



Sorry, but I chopped the parts where you were simply attacking the messenger. It didn't seem relevant somehow.
Also chopped your patriotic outburst as it's not particularly appropriate on an international board.


AFAIK Charles C. Johnson is not himself a person of Russian or Slavic descent, therefore the definition of "Russian" was not "specific to him", but rather was applicable to everyone in the Country. Would you be more comfortable if they investigated all of his dealings with people of color, or perhaps just his dealings with Jews?
How is this different from past instances of racial profiling that were so rightfully deemed unconstitutional?


How would you re-write the headline?
Terry




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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2196 on: December 30, 2017, 09:46:23 PM »
NYT reporting today that it was in fact NOT the dossier that led the FBI to open the Russia investigation WRT the Trump campaign.  Big news.

Thanks for this.  The article lays out the origins of the FBI investigation, and the Steele dossier is just not a part of the story.  The full article
How the Russia Inquiry Began: A Campaign Aide, Drinks and Talk of Political Dirt
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/30/us/politics/how-fbi-russia-investigation-began-george-papadopoulos.html

Quote
The information that Mr. Papadopoulos gave to the Australians answers one of the lingering mysteries of the past year: What so alarmed American officials to provoke the F.B.I. to open a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump campaign months before the presidential election?

Note that this investigation was kept quiet by the FBI, where inquiries into Hillary's server were leaked.  Institutionally, the FBI was clearly favoring Trump over Clinton, and not the reverse.


Doesn't this leak indicate quite the opposite?


It seems as though the Mueller Investigation is now steering clear of all of the dirt thrown up by the "dossier". Probably a very prudent move.


Wasn't Papadopoulos the low level Trump wannabe that was always trying to get Trump to meet with Putin, or vise versa? Didn't the campaign and the Russians keep turning him down? Wasn't this all leaked a month ago - or so?


That's a very thin string from which to hang an American President. IMHO
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2197 on: December 30, 2017, 09:47:31 PM »

 At any rate, the headline (and subsequent article) is misleading. The definition of "Russian" wasn't a blanket statement applicable to everyone in the country;  it was intended for one specific person, Charles C. Johnson.



Sorry, but I chopped the parts where you were simply attacking the messenger. It didn't seem relevant somehow.
Also chopped your patriotic outburst as it's not particularly appropriate on an international board.


AFAIK Charles C. Johnson is not himself a person of Russian or Slavic descent, therefore the definition of "Russian" was not "specific to him", but rather was applicable to everyone in the Country. Would you be more comfortable if they investigated all of his dealings with people of color, or perhaps just his dealings with Jews?
How is this different from past instances of racial profiling that were so rightfully deemed unconstitutional?


How would you re-write the headline?
Terry

I think you're missing the point.  The matter addressed here is clarification of a subpoena for documents of one person, Charles Johnson.  He's being asked to produce communications with Russian persons.

In context, Mr. Johnson surely is suspected of cooperating with, or being used by, agents of the Kremlin, that's why the Committee would be interested in anyone.

In such a context, it would be quite reasonable to subpoena all his emails and calendars.  The Committee, instead, only wanted the ones most likely to be relevant, a subset of his personal communications.

An agent of the FSB is not likely to introduce himself as such.  He might be only an informal agent, who has an actual, and different, day job.  But he's fairly likely to be Russian in ethnicity.

Jim is entirely correct, TYT is engaging in hysteria here.  We all here have better critical thinking skills than that.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2198 on: December 30, 2017, 09:56:23 PM »

Note that this investigation was kept quiet by the FBI, where inquiries into Hillary's server were leaked.  Institutionally, the FBI was clearly favoring Trump over Clinton, and not the reverse.


Doesn't this leak indicate quite the opposite?


It seems as though the Mueller Investigation is now steering clear of all of the dirt thrown up by the "dossier". Probably a very prudent move.


Wasn't Papadopoulos the low level Trump wannabe that was always trying to get Trump to meet with Putin, or vise versa? Didn't the campaign and the Russians keep turning him down? Wasn't this all leaked a month ago - or so?


That's a very thin string from which to hang an American President. IMHO
Terry

I was speaking of FBI actions *prior* to the election.  The difference between leaking Clinton-related inquiries and *not* leaking Trump related suggests a pro-Trump bias at that time, by leakers, anyway.

Subsequently, the FBI has been doing it's job.  And Mueller's investigation has leaked almost nothing at all.  Very professional.

As far as the thin string (Papadopoulos' role and text of indictment), this is plainly just one strand of a very thick rope.  Mueller will, in time, lay out all the many strands.  We have a fair inkling of what many of these strands are likely to be.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2199 on: December 30, 2017, 10:11:15 PM »
I think that this two-day old story deserves to be mentioned again, as if it bares fruit, it could put a lot of Republicans in jail:

Title: "Mueller Probing Whether Trump Digital Team Aided Russian Disinformation Campaign"

http://amp.nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/mueller-probing-whether-trump-team-aided-russian-trolls.html

Extract: "Mueller’s team is trying to determine if members of the Trump campaign and Republican National Committee, who worked together on the digital arm of Trump’s campaign, provided assistance to Russian trolls attempting to influence voters. It’s the latest scare for Trump son-in-law Jared Kushner, who managed the digital campaign and has already come under scrutiny by the special counsel for his foreign contacts."

Thanks, ASLR.

Another quote: "Experts don’t think the trolls behind Russian Facebook accounts could have determined who to target on their own, but the question is whether the help they got came from Trump’s orbit. The leading suspects at this point are Kushner and Brad Parscale, the head of Cambridge Analytica, " 

Might be possible to follow a money trail here, from the alt-right to the Russian trolls. As before, I doubt the Kremlin was involved in this. Time might tell.