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oren

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3100 on: March 13, 2018, 10:11:42 AM »
Gerontocrat, Neven and all, I recommend to read this short related discussion
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1197.msg145639.html#msg145639

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3101 on: March 13, 2018, 02:08:22 PM »
I'm so glad that people from Israel (Oren), England (Gentrocrat), Austria, (Neven), Sweden (Hefestos), Australia (can't remember his name), and Canada (Comrade Terry)......don't think RussiaGate is a big deal.  ;)

Most Americans DO think it is a big deal.  And it is also a big deal related to global warming....unless you haven't been following the policies of Traitor Don and his merry band of inept crooks.

1)  Denying global warming...and promoting fossil fuels
2)  Gutting the EPA
3)  Slowing down the move in the US towards renewable energy
4)  Gutting the State Department
5)  Increasing military spending
6)  Gutting the educational system in the US
7)  Gutting Medicare and Medicaid
8)  Lying DAILY.... on everything

And as the Mueller investigation goes forward...... more and more information will continue to come out that implicates those in the Republican party in RussiaGate.


« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 06:27:38 PM by Buddy »
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3102 on: March 13, 2018, 02:18:38 PM »
As I said a few days ago...expect March and April to be crazy months.  The Tillerson firing is JUST THE START.  There will be many more...

And yes....it will eventually lead to Mueller's firing....although, HOPEFULLY, that will lead to:

1)  His immediate REHIRING
2)  The road to Traitor Don's impeachment

As I noted in the very beginning....many months ago....this is a PROCESS.  And there will be MANY MORE PEOPLE GOING TO JAIL THAN WATERGATE.

Nobody went to jail from Congress in Watergate.  That will NOT be true of RussiaGate.

Donnie is trying to save his financial ass....and keep it out of jail.  He is also trying to keep Guiliani, Jason Chaffetz, Nunes, Gowdy, Trump's kids.....and MANY MANY OTHERS out of jail.

Donnie is colluding with the Russians....and so are others in AND AROUND his administration.

Strap in....
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3103 on: March 13, 2018, 02:53:56 PM »
Do you want Donnies and Russia's interests at heart....or do you want America's interest at heart?

Here are Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee (with the exception of Tom Rooney, who has already spoken out against the memo put out by his fellow Republican members)..... in effect, working for Russia and Donnie.  In addition....I couldn't leave off Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, and Traitor Trump....as they are the leaders of the gang.



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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3104 on: March 13, 2018, 03:05:39 PM »
The sickle and hammer, seriously?

That's another problem of Russiagate: Instead of limiting the attacks to Putin and his merry band of oligarchs, all of Russia and its people are implicated. Which, of course, leads to McCarthyite xenophobia. Plenty of examples lately (like that Clinton campaign lady who said she was in a cab with a Russian driver, so people would know where she went missing).

The sickle and hammer...

Do you want Donnies and Russia's interests at heart....or do you want America's interest at heart?

Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists.

It's so weird to see people who say that they are against Republicans, act exactly like them.  ::)
Compare, compare, compare

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3105 on: March 13, 2018, 03:08:59 PM »
Tillerson out hours after criticizing Putin when Trump wouldn’t

https://shareblue.com/rex-tillerson-fired-donald-trump-putin-russia/

I'm sure it was just a "coincidence".  Neven....are you REALLY that blind to all of this?  Really?

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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3106 on: March 13, 2018, 03:15:17 PM »
Tillerson out hours after criticizing Putin when Trump wouldn’t

https://shareblue.com/rex-tillerson-fired-donald-trump-putin-russia/

I'm sure it was just a "coincidence".  Neven....are you REALLY that blind to all of this?  Really?

Blind to what? I've repeatedly stated my opinions.
Compare, compare, compare

Pmt111500

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3107 on: March 13, 2018, 03:29:24 PM »
Inevitable: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/tillerson-again-refuses-answer-if-he-called-trump-moron-n810806

I'm merely considering he did this voluntarily, but to save face it was made to look like he was ousted. Anyway he got the tax breaks done so no reason to stay.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3108 on: March 13, 2018, 03:49:57 PM »
And you still did not answer my questions regarding the commenters that you claim are "experienced organophosphonate chemists" :

Quote
And which commenter on that blog are you talking about specifically ?
The one named "dearieme" that says: "CIA false flag" ?
Or the one named "milkshaken" who suggests that polonium is a sure Russian “calling card” ?
Or both ?
You have the answer already (more or less). A-team pasted several comments of "milkshaken" over several days into one quote block.

(Please do not even think about why A-team might have done this. - It just happened thusly, period. Before wasting neurons on that, have a meditation on Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor [1])

Click link, search "milkshaken". Note the dates and compare with timeline of news (when "Novichok substance" first came up in news, cf. blog post update notes).

This "milkshaken" deserves some scrutiny. -- I like to think s/he is a well-meaning commenter sharing knowledge. Feels very much like it. -- But this could also be a locus classicus for a Russian disinformation troll. (Meta false flag cover-up, anybody? :) )

-------------------
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:13:28 PM by Martin Gisser »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3109 on: March 13, 2018, 11:32:55 PM »
Stone swore under oath to Congress that he did not talk to Julian Assange in 2016.  Now Mueller has two witnesses that claim that Stone told them that he was in contact with Assange in 2016.  Lying to Congress, under oath, is a federal offense:

Title: "Roger Stone claimed contact with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in 2016, according to two associates"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/roger-stone-claimed-contact-with-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange-in-2016-according-to-two-associates/2018/03/13/a263f842-2604-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html?utm_term=.5ef44973c21a

Extract: "Stone, an informal adviser to then-candidate Donald Trump, said he had learned from WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange that his organization had obtained emails that would torment senior Democrats such as John Podesta, then campaign chairman for Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton.

The conversation occurred before it was publicly known that hackers had obtained the emails of Podesta and of the Democratic National Committee, documents that WikiLeaks released in late July and October. The U.S. intelligence community later concluded that the hackers were working for Russia.

The person, who spoke to The Washington Post on the condition of anonymity because of the ongoing federal investigation into Russian campaign interference, is one of two Stone associates who say Stone claimed to have had contact with Assange in 2016."
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3110 on: March 14, 2018, 12:01:27 AM »
Fortunately it's still not a federal offense to BS anonymous witnesses.  :)


"In May 2016—one month after being extradited to the U.S., and while jailed in Virginia awaiting trial—Guccifer claimed to have repeatedly hacked Hillary Clinton's email server. This claim occurred in the midst of an ongoing FBI probe of Clinton's use of a private email server while serving as United States Secretary of State. Lehel claimed that the server was "like an open orchid on the Internet" and that "it was easy ... easy for me, for everybody."
(from wiki)

This had been Big News well before the July statements by Stone.

This was covered by the MSM when they were responding to similar claims about "Stumblin' George's" utterances to "The Ambassador".

Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3111 on: March 14, 2018, 12:06:09 AM »
Trump follows May's lead on response to poisoning of former Russian spy:

Title: "Trump Backs U.K. In Clash With Russia Over Ex-Spy Poisoning"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-backs-may-over-russia-poisoning_us_5aa82821e4b018e2f1c24bfb

Extract: "U.S. President Donald Trump and British Prime Minister Theresa May agreed on Tuesday that Russia must provide “unambiguous answers” after London gave Moscow until midnight to explain how a Soviet-era nerve weapon was used against a former Russian double agent."
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3112 on: March 14, 2018, 12:31:38 AM »
Fortunately it's still not a federal offense to BS anonymous witnesses.  :)


"In May 2016—one month after being extradited to the U.S., and while jailed in Virginia awaiting trial—Guccifer claimed to have repeatedly hacked Hillary Clinton's email server. This claim occurred in the midst of an ongoing FBI probe of Clinton's use of a private email server while serving as United States Secretary of State. Lehel claimed that the server was "like an open orchid on the Internet" and that "it was easy ... easy for me, for everybody."
(from wiki)

This had been Big News well before the July statements by Stone.

This was covered by the MSM when they were responding to similar claims about "Stumblin' George's" utterances to "The Ambassador".

Terry

Yes, Guccifer made the claim.  Nobody found a shred of evidence.  From the rest of that article,

Quote
Lehel provided no proof of his claim, and U.S. investigators found no evidence to support the claim.[24][25][26] U.S. officials have also said that if Lehel had obtained information from Clinton's servers, he would have publicly released such information, as he did when he obtained access to other high-profile individuals,[26] such as Sidney Blumenthal[27] and George W. Bush.[28]

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3113 on: March 14, 2018, 02:21:08 AM »
Whether Guccifer actually accessed anyone's account is not the point. What matters is that the media had been reporting the story for years before Stone mentioned it.


Here's a USA Today headline from March 19, 2013
Terry
Q&A: 'Guccifer' hacks Hillary Clinton's e-mails via aide's account


Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3114 on: March 14, 2018, 03:21:45 AM »
Whether Guccifer actually accessed anyone's account is not the point. What matters is that the media had been reporting the story for years before Stone mentioned it.


Here's a USA Today headline from March 19, 2013
Terry
Q&A: 'Guccifer' hacks Hillary Clinton's e-mails via aide's account



Yes. That was Sidney Blumental's email account.
Not sure where you are going with this.
For starters, what does this have to do with Stone ?
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3115 on: March 14, 2018, 03:48:18 AM »
Do you want Donnies and Russia's interests at heart....or do you want America's interest at heart?

Either you're with us or you're with the terrorists.

It's so weird to see people who say that they are against Republicans, act exactly like them.  ::)

Meddling in elections is one thing. That's interference, but cannot really be considered "terrorist" action.

Release a nerve agent in another nation is another, which is really pushing the boundary of terrorism.

But when Putin and his oligarch cronies invade a neighboring country and kills 6000 of its citizens, or when they shoot down a civilian airliner, that's clear and outright terrorism.

What do you think we should do each of these cases ? Just sit around the fire with them and sing Kumbaya ? No consequences for their actions ?

Strong sanctions that really hurt these oligarchs in their pocketbook is the very minimum in my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 04:16:50 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3116 on: March 14, 2018, 07:37:59 AM »
Re the poisoning in Salisbury, one thing it most assuredly is not, is false flag. Here's a good article on that (Anthony Lane is a favorite for his skilled and thoughtful writing): https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/sergei-skripal-russia-and-the-salisbury-conundrum

Since I hope interested parties will consider its implications (you are, many of you, in Europe) I'm providing a largish extract here. It is highly informative.

Quote
Did he do it? Why would he do it? .... It has spread from a bench in provincial England to the doors of the Kremlin. Were Robert Ludlum to have cooked it up, it would be called “The Salisbury Conundrum.”

Salisbury is a comely cathedral town in the southwest of England, the towering church being the hub of its existence and, over many centuries, a place of pilgrimage for worshippers and travellers alike. ....

Local citizens were reportedly vexed by the lack of information, and their anxiety only mounted with the ominous advice, issued a week after the mysterious episode, that anybody who had spent time at either Zizzi or the Mill on March 4th should wash their clothes and possessions. The common response appeared to be: “Now they tell us?”
....
Skripals had been exposed to a military-grade nerve agent. The Soviet Union developed a large group of such agents during the Cold War. They are known as Novichoks, and they were designed to be undetectable; that fact would explain the delay, so disturbing to the public, in identifying the poison that was used on the Skripals. (Porton Down, the secretive home to the government’s Defense Science and Technology Laboratory, which happens to lie not far from Salisbury, tested samples from the scene.)
....
Sergei Skripal is, or was, a spy. As a Russian military-intelligence officer, he is said to have been recruited by Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, commonly referred to as M.I.6, in the nineteen-nineties. In 2004, he was arrested in Moscow, charged with treason, found guilty, stripped of his rank, and sentenced to thirteen years in prison. In 2010, he was released as part of a spy swap—one of a number of Russian individuals exchanged for Russian agents who had been arrested in the United States. Skripal came to England and settled in Salisbury. His wife, Lyudmila, died, of cancer, in 2012, and his son, Alexandr, died last year, during a visit to St. Petersburg. Both these deaths, especially the latter, are now the subject of renewed conjecture. His daughter, Yulia, had lived in Moscow but was visiting him in the United Kingdom when they were targeted. He and his family have paid a heavy price for his crimes.

And crimes they are, remember, in the eyes of the Russian establishment. To the West, he may have been a valuable asset and a courageous guide to the wiles of an unscrupulous regime, but to his compatriots he is primarily a traitor. .... The difference, of course, is that the United States would not have gone after Ames on Russian soil—not only because of the risks involved, and the insult to diplomatic ethics, but also because so little would be achieved by such a provocative act. And so it is, you might think, with Sergei Skripal. In Russia’s reckoning, one presumes, he has already done his worst; he has served his time and been offloaded to his adopted home; these days, he can hardly be of much use as a source of covert intelligence. So, to return to my opening question: Why? Why assail him, in broad daylight, with an alarming likelihood of collateral damage to his innocent daughter and the good folk of Salisbury? Above all, why do it now?

Well, the Russian elections are due to be held this coming Sunday. If you wish to strike a pose as the nation’s protector, why not reassure the voting public that, should enemies of the state arise, they will be hunted down and punished, no matter where or when? Russia has a long and sturdy tradition of portraying itself as being under siege, from within or without, and of reacting forcefully to any such threat. Not that Moscow has done anything as vulgar as confess to the Salisbury scheme. Instead, Russian media has dropped all manner of chunky hints about the perils of the spying game. “I don’t wish death on anyone, but, for purely educational purposes, I have a warning for anyone who dreams of such a career,” Kirill Kleimenov, an anchor on the state-run Channel One news, informed his viewers. He also took pains to present Britain as one big Heffalump trap, into which unwary scoundrels are doomed to plunge. He added, “Something is wrong there. Maybe it’s the climate, but in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with grave outcomes there.” Unlike Russia, say, where nothing is ever strange.

You don’t need too long a memory to summon one such incident in the U.K. Alexander Litvinenko, who had formerly been employed by the Russian secret service, and who was granted political asylum in Britain, in 2001, was poisoned on November 1, 2006, in a London hotel. It was later established that the highly radioactive element polonium had been slipped into his tea. ....

The Litvinenko case, however, is dwarfed by the Skripal affair, whose ramifications are wider. For one thing, there is the recklessness of the deed itself. .... the menace to public health was considerable .... its users, in this instance, will have been quite aware that it would eventually be traced to its source; in other words, Russia wanted to be found out, simply for the chance to flex its muscles and to prove itself internationally untouchable. This, at any rate, is how some observers are construing this dark event. When judicious experts start to sound a little like conspiracy theorists, you sense that the world has just got a little madder.

.... And so to Washington, where that pattern has, let us say, been under close inspection for many months. Initially, there was no word on the Salisbury conundrum from President Donald Trump, but he later told reporters, “As soon as we get the facts straight, if we agree with them, we will condemn Russia or whoever it may be.” How many bets can you hedge in one sentence? On Monday night, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was more robust, describing the attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter, in the shadow of a cathedral spire, as “a really egregious act,” and stating that “those responsible—both those who committed the crime and those who ordered it—must face appropriately serious consequences.” Hours later, Tillerson faced consequences of his own. He lost his job.

The toll of deaths of Putin's enemies or people who might reveal too much about him is notable.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 07:49:49 AM by Susan Anderson »

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3117 on: March 14, 2018, 08:27:11 AM »
The toll of deaths of Putin's enemies or people who might reveal too much about him is notable.

The reason Putin kills people is not because they "might reveal too much about him".

Skripal already did his work and was no longer a threat.
Boris Nemtsov already completed his report exposing Putin's war in Ukraine.
And the scores of journalists killed had already done their reporting exposing inconvenient truths about Putin.

No. The reason Putin kills people is to make statement so that nobody else will follow in their steps.

Lavrov stated it last week :

Quote
Sergey V. Lavrov, Russia’s foreign minister, an anchor on Russia’s state-controlled news broadcast struck a different note, warning Russians not to betray their country. If they do, he said, “Don’t choose Britain as a place to live.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/12/world/europe/uk-russia-spy-poisoning.html

With the Skripal attack, Putin again made the statement that he is internationally 'untouchable' with his policy of 'plausible deniability'.

After all, he also shot down an international airliner and got away with it.
And annexed a part of neighbor's country and got away with it.
And invaded another part, killed 6000 civilians, and got away with it.

Who will stop this tyrant ?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 09:00:00 AM by Rob Dekker »
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3118 on: March 14, 2018, 09:13:34 AM »

Susan

Yeh, Putin should have used a nice clean drone, preferably at a wedding party. ::)


The author appears to believe that the Russian presidential race is so tight that Putin needs to kill a former prisoner to assure his reelection. All this time I thought he was a dictator who cared naught for the will of the voters. - silly me.
May at least is secure in having the full support of the British public. She'll never need any tricks to assure that the reigns of power don't slip from her steady hands.


Strange that Former Agent Steele's Russian source has suffered this right in Former Agent Steele's own backyard. The world is full of so many coincidences.


Isn't it amazing that these Russian experts are so ineffective that they're always leaving clues that point directly to their guilt? I'd come to believe that the Russians were geniuses that had tricked despicable Americans into voting for "Putin's Puppet".


"Putin's Puppet" was the one who showed his true colors when he hired that Putin lover Tillerson. Then he again proved his Russian connections by firing that Great Patriot Rex - at least according to that wonderful Progressive Leader Pelosi.


https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/121316/
&
https://www.democraticleader.gov/newsroom/31318/

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. - As Billy the Bard might once have scribbled.

Terry
BTW
Hope all is well in Boston. Three one hundred year storms in one season might be enough to convince even the dullest of the local deniers that something is wrong.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3119 on: March 14, 2018, 09:21:21 AM »
Tillerson out hours after criticizing Putin when Trump wouldn’t

https://shareblue.com/rex-tillerson-fired-donald-trump-putin-russia/

I'm sure it was just a "coincidence".  Neven....are you REALLY that blind to all of this?  Really?

The timing is indeed highly suspicious.
Monday night, Tillerson said this (among other strong words against Russia) :

Quote
“From Ukraine to Syria—and now the UK—Russia continues to be an irresponsible force of instability in the world, acting with open disregard for the sovereignty of other states and the life of their citizens.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/rex-tillerson-gets-fired-the-day-after-he-criticized-russia

Hours later he is fired.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3120 on: March 14, 2018, 10:01:56 AM »
Also interesting is why Goldstein was fired :

Quote
Steve Goldstein, top spokesman for fired Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, himself was fired Tuesday for contradicting the official Trump administration account of Tillerson's dismissal.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/13/white-house-fires-top-tillerson-aide-who-contradicted-account-of-secretary-of-states-dismissal.html

If you can't connect the dots, that is because the dots are so close together they form a blob.
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3121 on: March 14, 2018, 02:42:36 PM »

Isn't it amazing that these Russian experts are so ineffective that they're always leaving clues that point directly to their guilt? I'd come to believe that the Russians were geniuses that had tricked despicable Americans into voting for "Putin's Puppet".


This is tortured logic.  If you want to both maintain plausible deniability on the international stage, but also send a clear message to intelligence officers who might contemplate betraying the motherland, then this is exactly what you do.  Exotic deaths by poorly-detectable means, delivered under mundane circumstances.  The assassins have little risk of being caught, tracing the origins is impossible, and prospective future targets realize there's no realistic way of staying safe after committing treason.  It's all very straightforward.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3122 on: March 14, 2018, 02:46:32 PM »
...
With the Skripal attack, Putin again made the statement that he is internationally 'untouchable' with his policy of 'plausible deniability'.

After all, he also shot down an international airliner and got away with it.
And annexed a part of neighbor's country and got away with it.
And invaded another part, killed 6000 civilians, and got away with it.

Who will stop this tyrant ?

I think Russia's request of samples from the UK of the Skripals' poison is very reasonable. Not least after reading A-teams interesting digest on how easily these poisons are synthesized, and that there are likely to be detectable trace materials. Not only Russia might have a motive here, there are lots of bad guys out there.
As to the rest of your statements, let me comment:
"After all, he also shot down an international airliner and got away with it." No, it wasn't Russia. In any case, whoever operated the BUK, it's most likely to have been a mistake, as the old BUK used was unable to differentiate between military aircraft and a commercial airliner. You know that very well Rob, so why make this false claim over and over again?

"And annexed a part of neighbor's country and got away with it."
You repeatedly display a total neglicience of history, Rob. Crimea used to be part of Russia for 100's of years, almost all its population is Russian, the only language spoken there was and is Russian. Crimea was reunited with Russia.

"And invaded another part, killed 6000 civilians, and got away with it."
You repeatedly display a total neglicience of history, Rob. The Donbass used to be part of Russia for 100's of years, almost all its population is Russian, the only language spoken there was and is Russian. Its unofficial name always used to be 'Little Russia'.

I think we should accept that Russia also has a backyard.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3123 on: March 14, 2018, 03:21:26 PM »
According to the cited book "Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin's War on America and the Election of Donald Trump", Jeff Sessions knew that Trump wanted Papadopoulos to try to set-up a Trump-Putin meeting prior to the 2016 election; which is illegal.

Extract: "George Papadopoulos said Trump found idea of pre-election Putin meeting 'interesting': Book"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/george-papadopoulos-said-trump-found-idea-of-pre-election-putin-meeting-interesting-book

Extract: "Former Trump foreign policy aide George Papadopoulos reportedly told special counsel Robert Mueller that President Trump found the idea of brokering a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin “interesting.”

Papadopoulos, who pleaded guilty in October 2017 to making false statements to federal investigators and has since become a cooperating witness, told Mueller that he told Trump during a March 31, 2016, foreign policy meeting that he could arrange a meeting with the Russian leader.

This is an idea Trump found “interesting,” according to the book Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin’s War on Ametrica and the Election of Donald Trump, by Yahoo News’ Michael Isikoff and Mother Jones’ David Corn published Tuesday.

According to the book, Trump looked at Sessions as if he expected him follow up, and Sessions allegedly nodded in response.

However, it was reported in November that Sessions eventually shot down Papadopoulos’ idea."

See also:

Title: ""Russian Roulette" Revelations"

https://investigaterussia.org/media/2018-03-13/russian-roulette-revelations
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3124 on: March 14, 2018, 03:34:06 PM »
The linked BuzzFeed article indicates that Felix Sater has been cooperating with Team Mueller for some time now.  That is not good news for Team Trump:

Title: "The Asset"

https://www.buzzfeed.com/anthonycormier/felix-sater-trump-russia-undercover-us-spy?utm_term=.jllrnnMZL5#.coPoqq5JDy

Extract: "In the sprawling Trump-Russia investigation, one name constantly pops up: Felix Sater. In story after story, Sater is described as Donald Trump’s former business partner, a convicted stock swindler who was born in the Soviet Union, worked in Russia, tried to win Trump a deal in Moscow, and even helped broker a Ukrainian peace plan that Vladimir Putin would have loved.

Basically, he’s portrayed as something just short of a Russian spy.

Effectively, he has been a spy — but for the United States. For the first time, BuzzFeed News has verified the surprising sweep of Sater’s undercover work and many of his specific exploits. He worked as an asset for the CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (or DIA) and tracked Osama bin Laden. Then he worked for more than a decade for the FBI, providing intel on everything from the mob to North Korea’s drive for nuclear weapons. He still operates as a source for the bureau, according to two current FBI agents.

He did some of this work to fend off prison time after he admitted guilt in a stock scam — but he had started helping the US government before then, and he continued to report back to the FBI after the agreement ended. Today, as he is being questioned about Trump's business deals and ties to Russia, he has built relationships with at least six members of special counsel Robert Mueller’s team, some going back more than 10 years."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3125 on: March 14, 2018, 03:43:03 PM »
A blue wave building for the midterm elections, would increase the likelihood of Team Trump impeachments:

Title: "Tight Pennsylvania race signals blue wave rising"

https://www.axios.com/pennsylvania-special-election-conor-lamb-rick-saccone-caf01648-5d21-422d-9411-389410a09bbb.html

Extract: "NBC News declares Democrat Conor Lamb the apparent winner in a special U.S. House election in western Pennsylvania, the heart of Trump country, a blow to the White House and the Republican Party.

Why it matters: Regardless of the ultimate winner, it was a humiliating and sobering night for the GOP. This a district President Trump won by 20 points. The Democratic energy and Republican depression signal a brutal midterm season and the increasingly likely return of Speaker Pelosi.

•   A recount is possible, and AP says the race is still too close to call."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3126 on: March 14, 2018, 03:50:31 PM »
Theresa May holds Russia culpable for the nerve agent attack, and accordingly expels 23 Russian diplomats from the U.K.:

Title: "U.K. expels Russian diplomats over ex-spy attack"

https://www.axios.com/uk-expels-russian-diplomats-ex-spy-attack-f2fd40c5-43f7-40bf-b329-ad8967af4c8a.html?source=sidebar

Extract:  British Prime Minister Theresa May announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats and other measures in response to the nerve agent attack on ex-spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter on British soil. She told the House of Commons today that "there is no alternative conclusion" other than Russia's culpability for the attack."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3127 on: March 14, 2018, 04:22:41 PM »
She thinks it was Russia, but that means they know nothing. One thing is for sure. Somebody is looking for trouble.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3128 on: March 14, 2018, 06:47:23 PM »
Hopefully, this lawsuit will expose the truth about the death of Seth Rich:

Title: "Fox News sued by parents of slain DNC staffer"

https://www.axios.com/fox-news-sued-seth-rich-family-murder-f2691dbf-99c7-468a-9e80-1287a7e69ea1.html

Extract: "The parents of Seth Rich, the former DNC staffer who was murdered in 2016, have filed suit against Fox News, reporter Malia Zimmerman, and guest commentator Ed Butowsky over a retracted 2017 article that tied his death to a conspiracy theory that Rich had a hand in WikiLeaks' release of hacked DNC emails, per ABC News. They allege that the "sham story" exploited their son's murder "through lies, misrepresentations, and half-truths."

The details: The filing claims Fox News and the writers are liable for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" with the story's publication. The Rich family is seeking monetary and compensatory damages to be determined in a court of law. Fox News declined to comment on the allegations, citing pending litigation."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3129 on: March 14, 2018, 09:50:32 PM »
As Sessions has recused himself from the Russiagate investigation and as Andrew McCabe is a material witness in Russiagate; if Sessions decides to firing McCabe before this weekend; then I would say that Mueller would have more grounds to indict Sessions, and anyone who influenced his decision (like Trump), for obstruction of justice (i.e. by trying to discredit McCabe's reputation and thus discrediting his coming testimony):

Title: "On Verge Of Retirement, Deputy FBI Director Andrew McCabe Could Be Fired"

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/14/593587674/on-verge-of-retirement-deputy-fbi-director-andrew-mccabe-could-be-fired-anyway

Extract: "Attorney General Jeff Sessions is deciding how to handle an internal Justice Department recommendation to fire outgoing FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe over his conduct in 2016 just as McCabe is set to retire this weekend."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3130 on: March 14, 2018, 10:07:41 PM »
@TerryM: From your remarks it's clear you did not read the article. Try again. Everybody knows Putin will win: my best guess is 80-98% of the vote. He's demonstrating that he doesn't forgive and he will punish anyone who stands up to him, tells the truth, or incurs his displeasure, anywhere he wants to, including pastoral Salisbury. It's a good article and not too long, why not give it a try.

Meanwhile, you are coming across as someone who will say anything to justify Trump and Putin. These two are bullies. They don't need your help. The rest of us want to get working on saving the earth for the future.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3131 on: March 14, 2018, 10:16:50 PM »
I really don't want to justify or defend Trump and Putin, but would it be possible that Russian is being framed here, for whatever reason?
Compare, compare, compare

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3132 on: March 14, 2018, 10:34:13 PM »
Theresa May holds Russia culpable for the nerve agent attack, and accordingly expels 23 Russian diplomats from the U.K.:

Title: "U.K. expels Russian diplomats over ex-spy attack"

Churchill noted that Russia's actions are: "... a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma ...".  Nevertheless, if I had to guess why Putin would be making an open display of poisoning his enemies on foreign soil, I would guess that he is sending a veiled threat to Paul Manafort not to flip in the Russiagate investigation.  Hopefully, Mueller offers Manafort and his whole family a new life in the witness protection program.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 10:41:37 PM by AbruptSLR »
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3133 on: March 14, 2018, 11:00:58 PM »
I really don't want to justify or defend Trump and Putin, but would it be possible that Russian is being framed here, for whatever reason?

If the Russians wanted Skripal dead he would have died of a tragic accident, due to mindless street violence, or of an armed robbery gone wrong. And he would have been killed years ago, not ritually assassinated in a public place using a military grade poison made only at highly secured government facilities. The way he was killed, is the way to do it if you want to frame Kremlin.

Qui bono? There might be a connection to the Russiagate here. The UK, US and Israel might have had more motive to get rid of this man than Russia. Maybe he was the Russian source of the Steele dossier? With him out of the way there is no one left to corroborate on the story. Speculative, yes, but it's also rather speculative to claim that the Kremlin did it.

On availability of the poison, Novichok: It was stored by the Soviets in states on its borders, like Georgia and Ukraine, and Baltic states, so after those republics broke off from the USSR during its collapse the poison fell into the hands of anti-Russian countries.
In 1999 American agents spent six million dollars in decommissioning a plant that produced Novichok in the Uzbek city of Nukus. If you don’t think that they took a little for a false flag in the future you don’t know the logics of intelligence services.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3134 on: March 14, 2018, 11:09:06 PM »
Churchill noted that Russia's actions are: "... a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma ...".  Nevertheless, if I had to guess why Putin would be making an open display of poisoning his enemies on foreign soil, I would guess that he is sending a veiled threat to Paul Manafort not to flip in the Russiagate investigation.

If you would have to guess why someone else would do it, what would that guess be? Just speculating. I'm not saying Russia didn't do this.
Compare, compare, compare

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3135 on: March 14, 2018, 11:25:10 PM »
Churchill noted that Russia's actions are: "... a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma ...".  Nevertheless, if I had to guess why Putin would be making an open display of poisoning his enemies on foreign soil, I would guess that he is sending a veiled threat to Paul Manafort not to flip in the Russiagate investigation.

If you would have to guess why someone else would do it, what would that guess be? Just speculating. I'm not saying Russia didn't do this.

While it is possible that Russia might be being framed, I do not care to speculate on the particulars of such a hypothesis.
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3136 on: March 15, 2018, 12:20:23 AM »
@TerryM: From your remarks it's clear you did not read the article. Try again.
"Well, the Russian elections are due to be held this coming Sunday. If you wish to strike a pose as the nation’s protector, why not reassure the voting public that, should enemies of the state arise, they will be hunted down and punished, no matter where or when? "


The above is a copy/paste from your post, and it is to this that I responded. The author is obviously trying to sell the idea that Putin attempted to kill the double agent, whom he had previously released in a spy swap, with the intent of "reassuring the voting public".


As you and I are both aware, this is BS because the Russian voters will reelect Putin.


Why would anyone repeat such an obvious lie?
Is it an attempt to sway the uninformed, does it burnish one's credentials as Russophobe, goes it serve to strengthen the group?
Why did you personally repeat this obvious misinformation?


Quote

Everybody knows Putin will win: my best guess is 80-98% of the vote. He's demonstrating that he doesn't forgive and he will punish anyone who stands up to him, tells the truth, or incurs his displeasure, anywhere he wants to, including pastoral Salisbury. It's a good article and not too long, why not give it a try.


You now disclaim that he did it to assure his election and then enter into a mind reading phase. Isn't it more likely that he would have tortured and murdered his victim immediately after his trial if the intent was to send a warning to like minded individuals? Why wait all those years, years in which these like minded individuals would have presumably felt no compunction to obey the law, or to be faithful to their country.


You should be able to see through such a thin argument.


Quote
Meanwhile, you are coming across as someone who will say anything to justify Trump and Putin. These two are bullies. They don't need your help. The rest of us want to get working on saving the earth for the future.


I've been railroaded through lies, half-truths and innuendo in the past. I finally had my day in court and won 56 felony counts. Had I lost one, I'd still be doing time today.
It cost me a moderate fortune, a marriage, and a damn profitable business, but it left me with a sharp eye for lies, mistruths, and groupthink.
Calling Trump and Putin bullies, as you attempt to bully them, is generally referred to as projection. It's not a compliment term.
Trump and Putin are polar opposites. Tarring them with the same brush is not just wrong, it's silly.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3137 on: March 15, 2018, 01:54:10 AM »
I think that Trump is just building up courage to fire Sessions and replace him with Pruitt (so that he can fire Mueller on short notice).  Hopefully, Mueller has a rapid response plan:

Title: "“Trump Wants Them Out of There”: After Swinging the Axe at Tillerson, Trump Mulls What to Do with McMaster, Sessions, Jared, and Ivanka"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/03/trump-swinging-the-axe-at-tillerson-mcmaster-sessions-jared-and-ivanka

Extract: "Perhaps most consequential for Robert Mueller’s investigation, sources said Trump has discussed a plan to fire Attorney General Jeff Sessions. According to two Republicans in regular contact with the White House, there have been talks that Trump could replace Sessions with E.P.A. Administrator Scott Pruitt, who would not be recused from overseeing the Russia probe. Also, as an agency head and former state attorney general, Pruitt would presumably have a good shot at passing a Senate confirmation hearing."

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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3138 on: March 15, 2018, 03:04:21 AM »
While it is possible that Russia might be being framed, I do not care to speculate on the particulars of such a hypothesis.

+1
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3139 on: March 15, 2018, 03:23:35 AM »
Regarding Novichok, and how it traces back to Russia, let us do some fact checking.
There have been two argument so far :

First there was a comment by A-team here that it was easy to make, and also mentioned the "false flag" hypothesis that seems to be popular among some commenters here.

The reference A-team provided to sustain his argument was to a comment by a commenter called "Milkshaken" on a blog site here :

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/03/08/a-poisoning-in-england-but-which-poison

Where "Milkshaken" states :

Quote
Even Novichok binary is not that hard to make, for a false flag operation or a non-state actor.

There is only one person who knows who "Milkshaken" is, and why (s)he made this claim, nor did "Milkshaken" provide any evidence for his/her assertions.

On the other hand, we have a statement from a chemical weapons expert called Dan Kaszeta :

Quote
"As far as I know, I don't know anybody who knows how to make it except these guys in Russia," says Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert with Strongpoint Security in London. "They've been a deep, dark secret."

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/12/592964624/nerve-agent-found-in-u-k-is-rare-and-definitely-russian

Dan Kaszeta put his name out, and puts his reputation on the line with that statement.
If anyone can show ANY evidence that Novichok has been produced anywhere outside of Russia, then Dan looses his credibility.

So who should we believe ? anonymous commenter "Milkshaken" from a blog site, or Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert with Strongpoint Security in London ?

The floor is open...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 03:33:22 AM by Rob Dekker »
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3140 on: March 15, 2018, 05:55:25 AM »
Daniel Joseph Kaszeta:



Wrote the intro to "Lithuanian Resistance to Foreign Occupation (1942-1952)"
American Secret Service Agent who graduated from the US Army chemical weapons school
Opined that sarin gas used in Syria was of Russian origin back in 2008
Writes for "Wikistrat" and our old friend "Bellingcat", formerly known as "Brown Moses" and born as Eliot Higgins, until recently an unemployed ladies underwear salesman.


I can't imagine that he'd be biased at all, and if he were which side would he be biased for, or against?


Terry


http://www.lituanus.org/1988/88_3_01.htm
https://www.bellingcat.com/author/dankaszeta/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/10/13/bell-o13.html

& many many more sources available to any who simply google his name







Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3141 on: March 15, 2018, 07:03:09 AM »
Bellingcat is an excellent open source journalism site (where anyone can verify the evidence, since it is publicly available), who exposed numerous facts about Assad's chemical attacks against his own people, as well as being crucial in identifying the BUK that shot down MH17.

So on the ASIF, where logic and reason (should) prevail, Kaszeta should be complimented for being a Bellingcat author, and I have no idea why you are not banned from this site immediately for your ad hominem attacks against scientists like Kaszeta and open source journalists like Eliot Higgins at Bellingcat.

Neven, what are the posting guidelines on this forum regarding ad hominem attacks ?

But either way, regardless of if Kaszeta is biased or not, the real question is if he is right or not.
You can easily prove Kaszeta wrong by showing some evidence that Novichok is easy to make and has been produced outside of Russia.
If you don't have such evidence, then please be silent.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 08:04:54 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3142 on: March 15, 2018, 10:01:10 AM »
If you would have to guess why someone else would do it, what would that guess be? Just speculating. I'm not saying Russia didn't do this.
Guided by cui bono (who benefits?) I would have said North Korea - maybe the talks with Trump weren't meant that serious.

But then, any state actor (even some rogue CIA action) would likely get traced by the Russians. So, no state actor. It is very unlikely that a non-state actor has the formula, plus, would easily face elimination by Russia, high risk. So, no weird sect with a lab (e.g. Shoko Asahara).

Contrary to Terry's "reasoning" (can't help the quotes :) ) I would say Putin would have benefit - the poor strongman only got 80% approval. And he played strong man all his career. A one-party or mafia state like Russia needs a strong leader with 90%. Any sign of weakness would be the beginning of the end of his power. And the message is obvious: There's nowhere to hide, traitors get punished everywhere. Perhaps it's a direct message to someone who colludes with the Russiagate investigation.

And then the accident with the British policeman happened. Bad luck for Vladimir Vladimirovich. Now it is no longer just Russia killing Russians (e.g. Litvinenko), but a terrorist attack. Yet even that can help him: We Russians contra evil West, all support the führer.

The pattern is the same as in the Litvinenko case: Poison exclusively (for all practical purposes) traceable to Russia. Vladi thought he could do it again, just use something other than Polonium.

--------------------
BTW, Kaszeta just says what peer-reviewed literature say:

Are the structures of Novichok agents known to mortal chemists?

This collection of articles says no:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent
Quote
Future Biological and Chemical Weapons
Robert G. Darling, Erin E. Noste, in Ciottone's Disaster Medicine (Second Edition), 2016
[...]

Only sketchy and unverifiable information is available in the unclassified literature,
[...]
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 10:22:07 AM by Martin Gisser »
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3143 on: March 15, 2018, 10:17:06 AM »
Regarding Novichok, and how it traces back to Russia, let us do some fact checking.
There have been two argument so far :

First there was a comment by A-team here that it was easy to make, and also mentioned the "false flag" hypothesis that seems to be popular among some commenters here.

The reference A-team provided to sustain his argument was to a comment by a commenter called "Milkshaken" on a blog site here :

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2018/03/08/a-poisoning-in-england-but-which-poison

Where "Milkshaken" states :

Quote
Even Novichok binary is not that hard to make, for a false flag operation or a non-state actor.

There is only one person who knows who "Milkshaken" is, and why (s)he made this claim, nor did "Milkshaken" provide any evidence for his/her assertions.

On the other hand, we have a statement from a chemical weapons expert called Dan Kaszeta :

Quote
"As far as I know, I don't know anybody who knows how to make it except these guys in Russia," says Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert with Strongpoint Security in London. "They've been a deep, dark secret."

https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/12/592964624/nerve-agent-found-in-u-k-is-rare-and-definitely-russian

Dan Kaszeta put his name out, and puts his reputation on the line with that statement.
If anyone can show ANY evidence that Novichok has been produced anywhere outside of Russia, then Dan looses his credibility.

So who should we believe ? anonymous commenter "Milkshaken" from a blog site, or Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert with Strongpoint Security in London ?

The floor is open...

Novichok isn't much of a secret, its recipy can be found in a book from 2009 sold at Amazon, according to a twitter feed by its author, Mirzayanov, the full recipy is in the book. He was the scientist in charge. You can get your copy for $26:
"State Secrets: An Insider's Chronicle of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program An unparalleled deception took place in the 1980s, while U.S.S.R. President Mikhail Gorbachev was negotiating for the Chemical Weapons Convention. This treaty was supposed to destroy chemical weapons of the world and ban new ones. The Moscow institute that developed chemical weapons at that same time was secretly developing newer and greatly more toxic ones known anecdotally as “Novichok” and new binaries. Dr. Vil Mirzayanov, a scientist there, was responsible for developing methods of detecting extremely minute traces in the environment surrounding the institute."

https://www.amazon.com/State-Secrets-Insiders-Chronicle-Chemical/dp/1432725661/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1520920301&sr=8-1&keywords=vil+mirzayanov

As I already mentioned in my previous post, the poison, Novichok was stored by the Soviets in states on its borders.
This is public information, see NYT link below: In 1999 American agents spent six million dollars in decommissioning a plant that produced Novichok in the Uzbek city of Nukus. If you don’t think that they took a little for a false flag in the future you don’t know the logics of intelligence services.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/world/us-and-uzbeks-agree-on-chemical-arms-plant-cleanup.html

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3144 on: March 15, 2018, 10:25:10 AM »

If you want to contradict peer-reviewed scientific literature, then f-ing please give a direct link plus short quote!
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3145 on: March 15, 2018, 10:31:45 AM »
...Poison exclusively (for all practical purposes) traceable to Russia. Vladi thought he could do it again, just use something other than Polonium.

...
Are the structures of Novichok agents known to mortal chemists?

This collection of articles says no:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/novichok-agent


Those two statements of yours seem to be untrue, see my previous post.
Novichok seems to have been in CIA hands since 1999.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3146 on: March 15, 2018, 10:35:42 AM »
Mirzayanov's book is well-known. Apparently there's not the complete formula for everything in it.


If you want to contradict peer-reviewed scientific literature, then f-ing please give a direct link plus short quote!
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3147 on: March 15, 2018, 10:39:17 AM »

If you want to contradict peer-reviewed scientific literature, then f-ing please give a direct link plus short quote!

Your way of quoting that source is biased, when you quote: "Only sketchy and unverifiable information is available in the unclassified literature..."

The full quote: "Only sketchy and unverifiable information is available in the unclassified literature, but the existence of these agents would demonstrate the possibility of creating new chemical compounds toxic enough to be used as chemical warfare or terrorist agents. One of the sources of unclassified information is from a dissident Russian scientist who wrote newspaper articles and published a book about the Novichok program and the types of chemical agents that were produced."

Thus, all this has been known to e.g. the CIA for some 10 years, and the substance in their hands. Qui bono?

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3148 on: March 15, 2018, 10:45:44 AM »
If we're talking 'cui bono?', I see two parties that clearly benefit from the narrative that Russia is the source of all our problems:

- The establishment (concentrated oligarch wealth) in western countries that want to keep distraction levels at a maximum, so the population doesn't think about the system (perpetually and exponentially increasing concentrated oligarch wealth), which is the real enemy.
- The Russian establishment (Putin and his oligarchs) that promotes the narrative of 'poor, brave Russia against the whole world' to keep the power structures in place.

I would even consider it possible that they're all working together to keep the flames fanned.

Pushing all this stuff, is just pushing totalitarianism around the world. Concentrated wealth benefits all around, while the vast majority of the global population suffers, pushed to believe in the illusion that there's no other choice but to pick one of two sides (either you're with us or you're with the terrorists), even though both sides represent only one side.

There are so many echoes of 1984 that it's almost scary. It's amazing how Orwell grasped the universal nature of this vicious cycle, and simply extrapolated the scales from tribal to Oceania, Eurasia, Eastasia.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
Compare, compare, compare

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3149 on: March 15, 2018, 10:53:42 AM »
Your interpretation is biased. Quite obviously so:
Quote
As I already mentioned in my previous post, the poison, Novichok was stored by the Soviets in states on its borders.
This is public information, see NYT link below: In 1999 American agents spent six million dollars in decommissioning a plant that produced Novichok in the Uzbek city of Nukus. If you don’t think that they took a little for a false flag in the future you don’t know the logics of intelligence services.

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/world/us-and-uzbeks-agree-on-chemical-arms-plant-cleanup.html

1) The only known production/test place outside todays Russia was Uzbekistan.
2) The NYtimes article says the Russians stayed there until 1992. Now guess what they did during this overtime: Clean up secret stuff.
3) American "help" was approved by U.S. Congress, no secrets there.

Yes, likely (but not very likely) the Americans got some traces from the test field. But: 1) How long do the Novichoks survive in the oxygenated open? 2) Likely they can be destroyed by some solvents and the trace rest camouflaged by spraying a diversity of similar chemicals. 3) The Russians are not stupid.

My bet (using Occam's Razor) would be that Mirzayanov simply gave the complete (f-ing complete!) formulas to the CIA.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 11:07:29 AM by Martin Gisser »
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