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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3700 on: April 13, 2018, 01:11:11 AM »
What could Jimmy Dore, Tucker Carlson, and George Carlin have in common?



They all recognise that false flags have lead to war. Two of them recognise the present situation in Syria to be a rather obvious false flag.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3701 on: April 13, 2018, 02:34:50 AM »
We're getting closer......

No wonder that Traitor Donnie is so worried.  Some initial reporting says that Cohen may have had recordings.  YIKKKKEEESSSSS   >:(

Donnie has been working overtime with his communications department at FOX News ever since Cohen's office was searched.

So what is Donnie thinking?

1)  F**K 'EM.  I'm going to fire Rosenstein.  The stuff that Cohen has will screw me.  I have to fire Rosenstein... and then I need to sign an executive order that allows me to fire Mueller and SHUT THAT PUPPY DOWN.

2)  F**K 'EM.  If my people will allow me to shoot a person on Fifth Avenue, they will see me through this and the House will never impeach me, nor will the Senate remove me even if the House did impeach me.  I'll get FOX to keep lying for me ...... keep covering for me and we'll get enough of the public on our side.  If they believed all the other f**king lies ..... they'll believe ANYTHING.

Those are the two BASIC ways I see this thing breaking.  We're really starting to get down to "brass tacks."

If you STILL haven't watched the CNN special from 2013 on "All The President's Men - Revisited".  NOW would be a good time to do so, so you will get a flavor of things to come.  Keeping in mind that this is WAY.... WAY.... more serious than Watergate.



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

sedziobs

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3702 on: April 13, 2018, 04:36:01 AM »
The Tea Party, whose coalition moved to Trump, had been opposed to intervention in Syria since its inception almost a decade ago.  It's no secret that Trump has advocated non-interventionism, especially when in opposition to any Obama policy.  Much of America on both sides of the political aisle is non-interventionist.  The problem with Trump is that he's impulsive and liable to act on emotion or misinformation.

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The conservative anti-war wing in Congress still pales in comparison to the stay-out-of Syria fervor among rank-and-file Tea Partiers. It's not all bottom-up: Tea Party–aligned commentators like Glenn Beck are just as vocally against intervening in Syria as liberals like Dennis Kucinich and Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fla.)
...
The Senate's potential 2016 Republican presidential candidates all are pushing non-intervention and finding appreciative audiences.  It's an open question whether the Tea Party becomes a long-term anti-war force, outlasting the Syria issue — which contains an element of bald anti-Obama sentiment
http://theweek.com/articles/460079/how-tea-party-became-antiwar-movement

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3703 on: April 13, 2018, 04:54:58 AM »
Further evidence emerged that confirms the theory that yes, there was a chemical agent used in the Douma attack, and at least chlorine was used :

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Blood and urine samples from the site of a suspected chemical weapons attack in Syria have tested positive for chlorine gas and a (so far unidentified) nerve agent, according to U.S. officials.

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/382887-us-says-chlorine-nerve-agent-found-in-blood-urine-samples-from-syria

I know there are a lot of posters are still convinced that this was a fabricated "false flag" attack of some sort, but with now evidence coming out that at least chlorine WAS used, that theory now becomes increasingly unlikely.

For example, if the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder on the roof, and if was a "false flag" attack, then how did that cylinder end up in that hole on the roof ?

And if they were NOT poisoned by chlorine from that cylinder, then who put the bodies in that building and who put foam on their mouths ?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 05:11:03 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3704 on: April 13, 2018, 06:31:35 AM »
Neven, why does it matter who posted the videos ?

It matters if for instance it's a false flag operation (not saying it is).

I don't see how the identity of the person that made the video matters even if it is a false flag operation.
A false flag operation requires an alternative theory. And the only way to debunk (or confirm) that theory is to test it against available evidence.
Not by identifying the person who made a video.

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The video's are there, for anyone to geo-locate, and time.
Do you contest that they are taken from 33.573878, 36.404793 ?
Or do you contest the time these videos were taken ?
If you don't then these videos are evidence of what happened at that time and that location.
Regardless of who recorded the videos.
Does that make sense ?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. I'm not contesting where or when it happened.


Thanks.
Bellingcat does this (geo-location of pictures and videos) all the time. Often crowd-sourced. Isn't that amazing ?

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This looks like an ad hominem to me.
What does Eliot Higgins or the Atlantic council have to do with the evidence presented in the article ?

Evidence can be framed a certain way, depending on the biases of the person or entity presenting the evidence. For the same reason other evidence or analysis can be left out. It's highly likely that Higgins and thus probably all of Bellingcat has a pro-NATO and pro weapon industry bias.

Just like you refer to the propornot list (also presented by a clearly biased source) when assessing a source's reliability, I do the same for this particular source. The fact that Higgins was hoping to get a job at a weapons manufacturer, a few years ago, and that he is a fellow at the Atlantic Council, makes me careful not to trust Bellingcat unconditionally.

Don't trust Bellingcat. Instead, look at the evidence they present, and argue with that.

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He did it before. Many times. Here is one from last year :
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2017/04/05/khan-sheikhoun-chemical-attack-evidence-far/

Or this one, the fourth chemical attack in Eastern Ghouta this year, on February 25, when Assad was on the verge of winning al-Shefonia :
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/03/15/syrian-forces-bombard-eastern-ghouta-chemical-weapons-fourth-consecutive-time-since-beginning-2018/

Has this been 100% confirmed by other, more independent parties? I believe the other instances are just as contested as this recent one, if only for the fact that the rebels are extremists who don't mind committing war crimes themselves. That's what's making this whole thing so messy, evil people all around, and too many outsiders adding their shit to the mix.

About the sarin attack on Khan Sheikhoun, wikipedia gives many reference to this statement :

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The OPCW-UN Joint Investigative Mechanism,[15][16][17][18] the governments of the United States, United Kingdom, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, France, and Israel, as well as Human Rights Watch have attributed the attack to the forces of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.[19][20][21][22]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Shaykhun_chemical_attack

And the use of chlorine attacks on civilians by the Assad regime has also been established by third parties. Here for example :

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Chemical weapons investigators concluded “with a high degree of confidence” that chlorine gas was used as a weapon against three Syrian villages last year, affecting between 350 and 500 people and killing 13, according to a report obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press.
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Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons does not apportion blame but says bombs were probably dropped from helicopter
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/07/syria-chlorine-chemical-weapons-attacks-opcw


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It doesn't make sense that Assad would be doing this, if his goal is to win the war.

You are asking the "why" question again, and since we cannot look into the mind of Assad, we can never answer that question.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 06:45:02 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3705 on: April 13, 2018, 07:29:12 AM »
Best of luck working it all out and finding the truth of it all. Not easy. I'd say damn impossible.

It's not that hard.
Just apply logic reasoning to the evidence we have available.

For example, using the evidence presented here :
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2018/04/11/open-source-survey-alleged-chemical-attacks-douma-7th-april-2018/

ask the following questions to see if it was a "false flag" attack or not :

If the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder in that hole on the roof, if it was not dropped from the sky, then how did that cylinder end up on the roof ?

And if they were NOT poisoned by chlorine from that cylinder, then who put the bodies in that building and who put foam on their mouths ?
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 07:36:37 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3706 on: April 13, 2018, 08:38:32 AM »
Best of luck working it all out and finding the truth of it all. Not easy. I'd say damn impossible.

It's not that hard.
Just apply logic reasoning to the evidence we have available.

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This is a strawman - You misrepresented someone's argument to make it easier to attack....

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Or it's a Red Herring; Ignoratio elenchi...

Either way, it is inappropriate and a logically fallacious comment. I have better things to do with my time.

I think you misunderstood.
sedziobs stated :
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The problem with Trump is that he's impulsive and liable to act on emotion or misinformation.
Rather than evaluate prior presidents, I suggested instead to look at the evidence to determine if the Douma attack was a false flag or not.

That's spot-on addressing if the Trump is about to make an emotional decision or one based on facts and logic reasoning.

The questions still stand :

If the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder in that hole on the roof, if it was not dropped from the sky, then how did that cylinder end up on the roof ?

And if they were NOT poisoned by chlorine from that cylinder, then who put the bodies in that building and who put foam on their mouths ?
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3707 on: April 13, 2018, 09:46:58 AM »

Rather than evaluate prior presidents, I suggested instead to look at the evidence to determine if the Douma attack was a false flag or not.

That's spot-on addressing if the Trump is about to make an emotional decision or one based on facts and logic reasoning.


Sorry Rob. I have no idea how you got from A to B as mentioned above. It's got nothing to do with me nior anything I have said or thought about. I don't want to go there at all. With the exception that like all prior Presidents Trump will end up doing what he is told he should do, or some such story that meets his preferences close enough, or he will insist it's his way or the highway. All options are fraught with dire consequences for him and the people everywhere.

Why is it that so many posters in this thread, including you Thomas, avoid discussing the evidence we have, avoid responding to logic reasoning, and still some dogmatically assert that the Douma attack was a "false flag" attack.

I'm disappointed. Even in the comment section of Bellingcat articles (which are unmoderated, and often political) I find more reasoned arguments discussing evidence than here, on the ASIF, which is supposed to consist of scientifically oriented posters.

Let me try it one more time.
If you believe that the Douma chemical attack was a "false flag" of some sort, you should be able to answer the following two questions :

If the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder in that hole on the roof, if it was not dropped from the sky, then how did that cylinder end up on the roof ?

And if they were NOT poisoned by chlorine from that cylinder, then who put the bodies in that building and who put foam on their mouths ?
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3708 on: April 13, 2018, 12:27:14 PM »
Why is it that so many posters in this thread, including you Thomas, avoid discussing the evidence we have, avoid responding to logic reasoning, and still some dogmatically assert that the Douma attack was a "false flag" attack.

So many posters? There aren't that many, so don't make a mountain. As for the avoiding. First of all, like Thomas says, maybe those 2-3 posters aren't into it as much as you are. And second, if you see that as some kind of win for the Truth, I hope you enjoy. Third, the Bellingcat article is just a collection of information out there, and doesn't prove anything either way (but does imply at the very end) . Fourth, I'm still very interested in an explanation of the why, or the cui bono. We're not talking about a petri dish here, in some controlled experiment.

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Let me try it one more time.
If you believe that the Douma chemical attack was a "false flag" of some sort, you should be able to answer the following two questions :

If the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder in that hole on the roof, if it was not dropped from the sky, then how did that cylinder end up on the roof ?

I have one question about that, just my first impression: I assume that canister was put on the bed, because the hole isn't above the bed. I also assume that the roof is made of some kind of concrete. Why is the canister relatively undamaged, especially compared to the other pictures of canisters in the Bellingcat article?

And what happened after the canister was dropped? Did the gas come out slowly, or all at once, making its way through the building, killing everyone inside?

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And if they were NOT poisoned by chlorine from that cylinder, then who put the bodies in that building and who put foam on their mouths ?

If this were the case, one would assume it was the 'rebels' who did so to make videos of it, make them go viral via social media, so that it gets picked up by US corporate media which somehow always pushes for war, forcing the US to act and punish Assad, further escalating the chaos, which is the only way they can still win and get their Islamic State.
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Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3709 on: April 13, 2018, 12:41:47 PM »
I don't see how the identity of the person that made the video matters even if it is a false flag operation.

It might matter. If this person posted other videos as well, it might be worth checking them out. Or if it's the only video ever posted, one may wonder why.

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Thanks.
Bellingcat does this (geo-location of pictures and videos) all the time. Often crowd-sourced. Isn't that amazing ?

It's definitely fantastic on the surface of it. What's less fantastic is that the Bellingcat founder is a fellow at the Atlantic Council, has flirted with weapon manufacturers in the past and it's not entirely clear where funding comes from. This impacts Bellingcat's reliability, also because they always pick the same side, while there's plenty of open/crowd source stuff to be done on that side as well.

Like I said, to me the two sides aren't West vs Russia, but those pushing for war vs the masses who don't want war. I'd prefer to see something like Bellingcat taking on the side that pushes for war, but that doesn't seem to be desirable.

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Don't trust Bellingcat. Instead, look at the evidence they present, and argue with that.

There is not much to argue with, as it doesn't present a case wrt the whodunnit. People died because of gas, that's all we know. My main point is: Don't shoot missiles.

I'd also like to know the exact provenance of the evidence (who are the aircraft spotters, etc), and whether that's all the evidence. To me Bellingcat is like a lawyer, presenting a case in certain ways that benefit its client. I'm not sure if the client is the general public who doesn't want war.

PS I just received this breaking news from RT Deutschland (I don't know why, I'm not subscribed to their channel):

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Moskau hat "unwiderlegbare" Beweise, dass der Vorfall in Douma, Syrien, von Geheimdiensten eines ausländischen Staates inszeniert wurde, der eine "russophobe Kampagne" betreibt, hat der russische Außenminister Sergej Lawrow gesagt.
"Wir haben unwiderlegbare Beweise dafür, dass es eine weitere Inszenierung war, und die Geheimdienste eines Staates, der an der Spitze der Russophobie-Kampagne steht, haben an der Inszenierung mitgewirkt", teilte Lawrow am Freitag auf einer Pressekonferenz mit seinem niederländischen Amtskollegen Stef Blok mit.

Weitere Informationen folgen in Kürze...

I'll wait and see what that is all about. It's all I can do basically. It's almost impossible to find out what the truth is in all this Syrian mess.

Edit: There's a bit more on the main RT website:

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Moscow has “irrefutable” data that the incident in Douma, Syria was staged by the intelligence services of a foreign state pushing a “Russophobic campaign,” Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov stated.

“We have irrefutable evidence that it was another staging, and the special services of a state which is in the forefront of the Russophobic campaign had a hand in the staging,” Lavrov said at a news conference with his Dutch counterpart Stef Blok on Friday.

Read more
U.N. flags and the U.S. flag are seen in front of the United Nations headquarters © Eduardo Munoz  ‘Attack on Syria would be attack on entire UN system’ – Bolivia’s UN envoy
During their meeting in Moscow, both diplomats touched upon Syria, which has recently been threatened with new military strikes in the wake of an alleged chemical attack. Some Western leaders, including from the US and France, claim that the Syrian government is behind the alleged incident. It comes despite a team from the Organization for Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), tasked with establishing the truth, only just arriving in the country.

Russia’s top diplomat warned against following the Libyan and Iraqi scenarios amid the intensifying bellicose rhetoric.

“God forbid something adventurous will be undertaken in Syria similar to the Libyan or Iraqi experience… I hope nobody dares to,” Lavrov told reporters.

Otherwise, a new wave of refugees will surge into Europe and in other directions, the foreign minister warned. However, this scenario does not bother those “who are protected by an ocean” and can rip apart the region for the sake of geopolitical interests, he said.

The situation regarding Syria has escalated over the past week, following Saturday’s reports on the alleged chemical attack in the town of Douma. Pro-militant sources, and the controversial White Helmets group in particular, claimed that the Syrian government used chlorine-filled munitions to strike the area, killing and injuring dozens of civilians. Moscow and Damascus have repeatedly dismissed the allegations. After inspecting the site of the alleged incident, Russian military specialists said there were no signs of chemical weapon use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=195&v=ufZi4LDdWMo
« Last Edit: April 13, 2018, 01:09:19 PM by Neven »
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sedziobs

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3710 on: April 13, 2018, 03:23:10 PM »
Thomas, I said nothing whatsoever about anything before 2010 in my post.  And, I said nothing at all about you.  I find it hilarious that you then decide I made all kinds of logical fallacies, which are 100% fabricated in your head based on false inferences you made.  Perhaps you should analyze your own posts in the same manner.

I posted what I did because there seems to be a view (not just with Thomas) that Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump are some kind of newfound bastion of non-interventionist truth in an otherwise war hungry USA.  Maybe that's the perception around the world, but it's simply false.  Americans on both sides of the aisle have rejected the policies implemented in Iraq, Libya, and Syria in the last decade.  The old war hawk conservatives like Lindsey Graham, Bob Corker, and John McCain are retiring and losing influence.  The Tea Party was non-interventionist from the start. The populist left movement behind Bernie Sanders was non-interventionist.

There also seems to be this idea that Americans don't know what a false flag is or they can't fathom their own country being responsible.  We have a well-acknowledged history of possible false flag operations going back over a century to the sinking of the USS Maine to start the Spanish-American War.  I think almost all Americans at this point would agree that WMDs in Iraq were a sort of false flag (at least a false pretense).  Right now, most of America is calling for restraint and waiting for more information.  Donald Trump is an exception in that regard.

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3711 on: April 13, 2018, 03:45:39 PM »
I posted what I did because there seems to be a view (not just with Thomas) that Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump are some kind of newfound bastion of non-interventionist truth in an otherwise war hungry USA.

Preceding the Jimmy Dore video that was posted, Dore asked his viewers to send him links of media reports on the main channels (CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc) where the point was argued that it isn't yet known who was behind the chemical attack in Douma, and therefore flexing of military muscles was wholly uncalled for. Over a 100 of his viewers sent him the Tucker Carlson report and nothing else. Do you know of any other media reports doing the same. I was quite flabbergasted to see the Tucker Carlson report, as are Dore and his team, which is why I posted it.

If so many people on the left are against an intervention in Syria (shooting missiles etc), why aren't they represented in the media? The last time Trump ordered missiles to be shot, he had suddenly become presidential and news anchors started reciting Leonard Cohen at the sight of those beautiful weapons.

Everyone who calls himself a leftist, should be non-interventionist, especially in the current case. Instead of saying that some on the left are non-interventionist, you should be asking why some aren't.

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There also seems to be this idea that Americans don't know what a false flag is or they can't fathom their own country being responsible.  We have a well-acknowledged history of possible false flag operations going back over a century to the sinking of the USS Maine to start the Spanish-American War.  I think almost all Americans at this point would agree that WMDs in Iraq were a sort of false flag (at least a false pretense).

There's a thread for that. My personal opinion is that if enough Americans were really aware enough to see through the exceptionalism bullshit, the freedom/democracy rhetoric, and the relentless fearmongering, they'd be out in the street like they were to protest against the Vietnam War. What has been done in the name of the American people, and is still being done as we speak, is one of the gravest non-ideological atrocities in the history of humankind.
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sedziobs

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3712 on: April 13, 2018, 04:58:14 PM »
... viewers sent him the Tucker Carlson report and nothing else. Do you know of any other media reports doing the same.
I posted three articles from mainstream news outlets in my first reply to your video. Those were more simple reporting, and here's one that is opinion.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/12/opinions/what-comes-after-bombing-syria-doyle-opinion-intl/index.html

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If so many people on the left are against an intervention in Syria (shooting missiles etc), why aren't they represented in the media?
Brian Williams referred to missiles as "beautiful", which caused a lot of pushback.  That's not a representative view I don't think. Though you'll be able to find other cases of people praising Trump, much of the mainstream coverage was rather sober: https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/06/politics/donald-trump-syria-military/index.html

If you want a counter to Tucker Carlson, you need to look at opinion programs on the left. Rachel Maddow, John Oliver, etc. 
https://www.themarysue.com/john-oliver-syria/

The populist left here is not really well represented in mainstream "news" television, I agree.  They also don't consume much of it.  I don't think news TV is a good representation of the views of Americans under 40.

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Everyone who calls himself a leftist, should be non-interventionist, especially in the current case. Instead of saying that some on the left are non-interventionist, you should be asking why some aren't.
The American left is not a unified block.  We have a two party system with smaller factions.  Ironically, it is largely the center that is pro-war, and both extremes are anti-war.  Centrist Democrats under Clinton favored regime change. The liberal wing favors non-interventionism.  Similarly, the centrist Republicans favor aggression, and the libertarian and Tea Party wings favor non-intervention.  American politics doesn't fit neatly on a spectrum.  The young population is more on the extremes of both parties, so attitudes are shifting in those directions.

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There's a thread for that. My personal opinion is that if enough Americans were really aware enough to see through the exceptionalism bullshit, the freedom/democracy rhetoric, and the relentless fearmongering, they'd be out in the street like they were to protest against the Vietnam War. What has been done in the name of the American people, and is still being done as we speak, is one of the gravest non-ideological atrocities in the history of humankind.
I agree with all of this.  I've experienced the exceptionalism bullshit firsthand my whole life. My point is that attitudes have changed since 2010, and that the problem isn't uniquely American. The leadership of England and France has been aggressive as well.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3713 on: April 13, 2018, 05:25:23 PM »
There is some new "evidence" (of a sort) that a nerve agent was used in the recent Douma attack:

U.S. officials: Blood samples show nerve agent, chlorine in Syria gas attack
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/mideast/u-s-has-blood-samples-show-nerve-agent-syria-gas-n865431

"WASHINGTON — The U.S. now has blood and urine samples from last Saturday's deadly attack in Syria that have tested positive for chemical weapons, according to two U.S. officials familiar with the intelligence.

The samples suggested the presence of both chlorine gas and an unnamed nerve agent, two officials said. Typically, such samples are obtained through hospitals and collected by U.S. or foreign intelligence assets on the ground. The officials said they were "confident" in the intelligence, though not 100 percent sure.

The Assad regime is known to have stocks of the nerve agent sarin, and has previously used a mixture of chlorine and sarin in attacks, say U.S. officials."

I note that finding both chlorine and a nerve agent corresponds with the immediate on the ground reporting.  Chlorine does not cause foaming at the mouth and paralysis, nerve agents do. I find the overall picture credible and consistent, even keeping in mind the sometimes dubious credibility of intelligence reports and anonymous sources.

I'm not persuaded by assertions that Assad had no strategic motive for such an attack.  I think his situation at the time was fairly analogous to the US decision at the end of WW-II to use a different weapon of mass destruction to end the war against Japan.

That is, victory over Douma was inevitable, but likely to be costly, expensive, and cost many lives on both sides.  Dramatic use of a weapon of mass destruction, in both cases, led to an immediate surrender of the victims' side.

In both cases, the perpetrator faced no credible risk of being dragged before a war crimes tribunal for use of a WMD.  For the US, the reasons are obvious.  For Assad, his backing by Russia makes it almost equally unlikely.

Sometimes, the dominant narrative of a particular event is largely accurate.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3714 on: April 13, 2018, 06:14:24 PM »
Why bomb a country for the death of 50 kids when a previous administration thought that killing 500,000 kids was OK?




How is it that not one dead adult male is pictured?


If a certain group is "in control" of a certain area, why aren't they the suspected poisoners?


Didn't Assad's troops publish videos of a captured CW facility just days before this event?


Didn't Russia warn of the strong possibility of a false flag just days before this occurred?


Why would Russia demand, and Assad ask for an OPCW investigation?


Did Mathis admit that there was no evidence of Assad ever using chemical weapons?


This shows no concern for dead children as the response will assuredly kill a larger number of equally guiltless children.
This is an attempt to propagandise enough support for the coming war to allow the perpetrators to later claim that they were deceived just like so many others.


Remember the incubator babies!
Terry


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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3715 on: April 13, 2018, 07:42:54 PM »
Rosenstein and Mueller are playing chess, while Trump & his teammates are playing checkers:

Title: "Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein tells confidants he is prepared to be fired"

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/deputy-ag-rod-rosenstein-tells-confidantes-he-prepared-be-fired-n865596

Extract: "Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has struck a stoic and righteous tone in private conversations he has had this week about the fate of his job as President Donald Trump has launched public criticism against him and considered firing him, according to three sources who have spoken to Rosenstein.

Rosenstein has said in recent private conversations that history will prove he did the right thing by firing Comey in May 2017, claiming that the American people do not have all the facts about what led to his decision to write the memo that led to Comey's dismissal, the sources said."
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3716 on: April 13, 2018, 08:13:01 PM »

How is it that not one dead adult male is pictured?

Hard to say.  Possibly the adults were better able to leave the shelter when they smelled chlorine.
Possibly the adult males were anticipating ground forces in follow-up to the bombing, and were at the entrances to the enclave.
Quite possibly, children are more sensitive to toxicity from chlorine and nerve agents.

Quote
If a certain group is "in control" of a certain area, why aren't they the suspected poisoners?

The Sunni fighters in Douma were defending their enclave, including the civilians, from Assad's anticipated brutality.  They'd been doing so for several years.  They would not likely kill the children they were risking their lives to defend.

Quote
Didn't Assad's troops publish videos of a captured CW facility just days before this event?

Yes, and i'd commented on that.  The only notable equipment shown was a hospital air compressor.  A photo also of some bottles of chemicals.  Nothing persuasive from my perspective.  But if Assad were planning such an assault, why wouldn't he claim he was fighting forces using WMDs, to shift blame?  Assad is not above asserting false information.

Quote
Didn't Russia warn of the strong possibility of a false flag just days before this occurred?

That's also a very plausible propaganda ploy if they knew Assad was planning such an assault.

Quote
Why would Russia demand, and Assad ask for an OPCW investigation?

Possibly because such past investigations were inconclusive.  Possibly because they felt they could clean up the site before inspection.  The site was rather immediately under Russian control after the bombing.  Note, the chemical attack was successful in prompting immediate surrender of the rebels.

Why would rebels gas their own people immediately before surrender?  I don't think they would.  However, they would surrender if they feared more chemical attacks on the people they were trying to protect.

Quote
Did Mathis admit that there was no evidence of Assad ever using chemical weapons?

Nope.  Mattis' words were taken out of context.  This wasn't the situation over which he said he had no evidence.

Quote
This is an attempt to propagandise enough support for the coming war to allow the perpetrators to later claim that they were deceived just like so many others.

That's a plausible interpretation of the information.  I think it's far more plausible that Assad authorized a chemical attack, because it was (clearly) strategically useful, and he faces no credible serious repercussions.  Just like the rationale Truman used in bombing Hiroshima.

Quote
Remember the incubator babies!
Terry

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.  All sides use propaganda and false information.  "Our side" has no monopoly on misinformation.  Or brutality.

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3717 on: April 13, 2018, 08:15:52 PM »
Russia accuses UK of setting up the latest chemical attack:

"General Igor Konashenkov, a spokesman for Russia's defence ministry, said: "We have... evidence that proves Britain was directly involved in organising this provocation." "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43759873

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3718 on: April 13, 2018, 08:23:42 PM »
It looks like Mueller probably gave immunity to George Nader, because Nader has dirt not only on Team Trump but also on other main GOP figures:

Title: "Mueller probe witness secretly backed UAE agenda in Congress"

https://www.apnews.com/e2a2ae7f178e4daf9202be7ef3232628


Between Rick Gates' and George Nader's testimonies against Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy, Mueller appears to now have a direct tie from foreign influence to both the Trump campaign and to top congressional GOP leadership (even if Paul Manafort never flips):

Title: "Trump fundraiser turned to Foreign Affairs chair for help winning work in Romania"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article206905994.html

Extract: "Top Donald Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy sought help las summer from the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and lobbyist Rick Gates, a key figure in the Russia influence probe, as a Broidy defense company was trying to win business in Romania."

Elliott Broidy is up to his neck in Russiagate, and Cohen reportedly structured a 2017 deal for Broidy that used the same pseudonyms for Broidy and an impregnated former Playboy model (David Dennison and Peggy Peterson) as the 2016 NDA that Cohen structured for Trump & Stormy Daniels:

Title: "Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen Negotiated $1.6 Million Settlement for Top Republican Fundraiser"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-negotiated-1-6-million-settlement-for-top-republican-fundraiser-1523638726

Extract: "The 2017 deal was on behalf of Elliott Broidy, a businessman who faced allegations he impregnated a former Playboy model, and resembles one Mr. Cohen arranged with Stormy Daniels"
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3719 on: April 13, 2018, 08:31:07 PM »
" ... an impregnated former Playboy model ..."

What ?

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3720 on: April 13, 2018, 08:50:56 PM »
Kushner and Cohen should remember that a pardon from Trump will not protect them from state prosecution:

Title: "Trump issues pardon for Lewis 'Scooter' Libby"

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/13/trump-pardon-scooter-libby-522055

Title: "Critics are speculating that the president is trying to send a message to key figures in Mueller's Russia probe."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3721 on: April 13, 2018, 08:55:40 PM »
Steve
Thanks for the reply.


Re. Mathis:
I didn't mean to imply that he was commenting on this event. So many have brought up Assad's "history" of using chemical attacks. It was this perception that I was attacking.
I believe Mathis has said of the recent attack that he believes Assad guilty but that he has no proof. (sorry, no link)


I was always taught that Truman had nuked Japan as a warning to the Soviets.


Past performance is as you say no guarantee of future returns, but are you ready to bet the lives of what, thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands, possibly the lives of millions, on the certainty that our side didn't do it this time?


If you remain absolutely convinced that Assad did this, how many lives would you sacrifice to avenge the lives of a handful of children? Syrian lives, Russian lives, European lives, and American lives?
What price would you pay to assure their revenge? $10 Million, $100M, $1B, $100B, $1T!
Wars don't come cheap. Iraq's oil was supposed to pay for that fiasco, but somehow that didn't work out.
What's the bill now for Afghanistan, for Iraq? Have we ever paid off the huge debt from Vietnam?


All of the above are based on the assumption that we win.
That is the likely outcome, but it's far from a sure thing.


Remember that Archduke whose death drove so many to war? Neither do I.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3722 on: April 13, 2018, 08:56:13 PM »
" ... an impregnated former Playboy model ..."

What ?

sidd

Perhaps the linked Slate article can reduce your confusion:

Title: "Michael Cohen Arranged $1.6 Million Payment to Playboy Model Who Said She Aborted RNC Official’s Child"

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/michael-cohen-arranged-usd1-6-million-nda-for-rnc-official-playboy-model.html?via=recirc_recent

Extract: "The Wall Street Journal has a scoop about another nondisclosure agreement set up by Michael Cohen, Donald Trump’s longtime lawyer. This one did not directly involve the president, but was arranged on behalf of Elliott Broidy, the Republican National Committee’s national deputy finance chairman, after he had what he describes as a “consensual relationship” with a Playboy model who became pregnant. From the WSJ:

Mr. Broidy, a Los Angeles-based venture capitalist, works on the Republican committee with Mr. Cohen, who is also a national deputy finance chairman.

The deal, which hasn’t previously been reported, prohibits the Los Angeles woman from disclosing her alleged relationship with Mr. Broidy in exchange for $1.6 million to be paid to her over two years in quarterly installments, these people said.

Broidy, in a statement to the paper, said the woman told him she had become pregnant and that she “decided that she did not want to continue with the pregnancy.” (The woman reportedly said that Broidy was the one who had impregnated her, but the contract they reached does not assert any conclusions about paternity, and Broidy does not appear to have commented on the matter.) Broidy says he “offered to help her financially during this difficult period,” and the woman “has told Mr. Broidy’s camp that she had an abortion,” the WSJ reports."
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3723 on: April 13, 2018, 09:06:07 PM »

Past performance is as you say no guarantee of future returns, but are you ready to bet the lives of what, thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands, possibly the lives of millions, on the certainty that our side didn't do it this time?

If you remain absolutely convinced that Assad did this, how many lives would you sacrifice to avenge the lives of a handful of children? Syrian lives, Russian lives, European lives, and American lives?

Zero.  I'm confident that Assad is guilty of many instances of war crimes.  He belongs in front of a war crimes tribunal.

But he's backed by Russia, which has its only significant foreign base in Syria.  Putin isn't letting go of that, or Russia's relationship with Syria.  I doubt Putin is a big fan of Assad, but his alliance with Assad is the ticket to maintaining that base right now.

To get to Assad, we'd have to go through Russia. Not nearly worth it to bring one man to justice.  Sometimes, bad guys get away with it. C'est la vie.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3724 on: April 13, 2018, 09:06:27 PM »
These poor, pure maidens. Their virtue besmirched by those barbarians. Oh the Horror!! ...


And now back to the news ...


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3725 on: April 13, 2018, 09:15:29 PM »

Past performance is as you say no guarantee of future returns, but are you ready to bet the lives of what, thousands, tens or hundreds of thousands, possibly the lives of millions, on the certainty that our side didn't do it this time?

If you remain absolutely convinced that Assad did this, how many lives would you sacrifice to avenge the lives of a handful of children? Syrian lives, Russian lives, European lives, and American lives?

Zero.  I'm confident that Assad is guilty of many instances of war crimes.  He belongs in front of a war crimes tribunal.

But he's backed by Russia, which has its only significant foreign base in Syria.  Putin isn't letting go of that, or Russia's relationship with Syria.  I doubt Putin is a big fan of Assad, but his alliance with Assad is the ticket to maintaining that base right now.

To get to Assad, we'd have to go through Russia. Not nearly worth it to bring one man to justice.  Sometimes, bad guys get away with it. C'est la vie.


I'm very relieved.


Remember the outcome of the last Hague trial?
"Their guy" was exonerated, although he died in custody.
"Our guy" was found guilty, and commited suicide when the verdict was delivered.


Things aren't always as they first appear, and guilt may lay elsewhere.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3726 on: April 13, 2018, 09:25:11 PM »
It looks like Mueller probably gave immunity to George Nader, because Nader has dirt not only on Team Trump but also on other main GOP figures:

Title: "Mueller probe witness secretly backed UAE agenda in Congress"

https://www.apnews.com/e2a2ae7f178e4daf9202be7ef3232628


Between Rick Gates' and George Nader's testimonies against Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy, Mueller appears to now have a direct tie from foreign influence to both the Trump campaign and to top congressional GOP leadership (even if Paul Manafort never flips):

Title: "Trump fundraiser turned to Foreign Affairs chair for help winning work in Romania"

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article206905994.html

Extract: "Top Donald Trump fundraiser Elliott Broidy sought help las summer from the chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and lobbyist Rick Gates, a key figure in the Russia influence probe, as a Broidy defense company was trying to win business in Romania."

Elliott Broidy is up to his neck in Russiagate, and Cohen reportedly structured a 2017 deal for Broidy that used the same pseudonyms for Broidy and an impregnated former Playboy model (David Dennison and Peggy Peterson) as the 2016 NDA that Cohen structured for Trump & Stormy Daniels:

Title: "Trump Lawyer Michael Cohen Negotiated $1.6 Million Settlement for Top Republican Fundraiser"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-negotiated-1-6-million-settlement-for-top-republican-fundraiser-1523638726

Extract: "The 2017 deal was on behalf of Elliott Broidy, a businessman who faced allegations he impregnated a former Playboy model, and resembles one Mr. Cohen arranged with Stormy Daniels"

Mueller probably has lots of intelligence demonstrating that the Trump campaign (& many key GOP figures) received plenty of illegal foreign contributions

Title: "Mueller investigation probes consulting firm linked to UAE"

Extract: "Special Counsel Robert Mueller questions firm established in Israel over links to the United Arab Emirates.

The developments follow several reports showing that the UAE and Saudi Arabia have been working to lobby the US to support the blockade on Qatar.

Last month, the New York Times reported that Nader, who also presented himself as an adviser to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, pushed US President Donald Trump to fire Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, who had several confrontations with Trump over critical foreign policy issues, namely Iran and the Gulf crisis."
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3727 on: April 13, 2018, 11:48:20 PM »
Mr Dore, from a year ago, the last time that Trump had said he'd leave Assad alone. The follow up then was that Assad was accused of using chemical weapons domestically.( This was one of the "attacks" that Mad Dog Mathis admitted  had never happened)



History realy does repeat itself.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3728 on: April 14, 2018, 02:12:02 AM »
I hear that Prague is beautiful in the summer and fall.  Especially in the fall of 2016.....

 ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3729 on: April 14, 2018, 03:19:28 AM »
I'll be putting together a list of those Congressmen/women who have chosen to lash themselves to the bow of the USS Trump as it continues to take on water and ram into ice as it try's to ruin the US democracy.  Those repulsive politicians continued to run cover for what has been one of the worst administrations EVER.

Trump is corrupt, inept, egotistical, and shows a horrendous lack of ethics.  The Congressmen/women who have continued to run interference for him, need to be voted out of office this coming November.  For those senators that are not up for election this cycle (like Mitch McConell) ...... also need to pay a price for putting their party ahead of country..... and for continuing to press for benefits for the wealthy, to the detriment of those lower down on the wealth/earnings scale.

At any rate ..... I encourage all of you that are US citizens, to become more active over the coming months and get people out to vote in November.
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3730 on: April 14, 2018, 03:28:25 AM »
Tulsi Gabbard questions General Mathis on the legality of attacking Syria.



The more I listen to Tulsi. the more I appreciate her.
Terry

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3731 on: April 14, 2018, 07:07:44 AM »
Quote
Let me try it one more time.
If you believe that the Douma chemical attack was a "false flag" of some sort, you should be able to answer the following two questions :

If the people in that apartment building near al-Shuhada square were really killed by chlorine gas from a cylinder in that hole on the roof, if it was not dropped from the sky, then how did that cylinder end up on the roof ?

I have one question about that, just my first impression: I assume that canister was put on the bed, because the hole isn't above the bed. I also assume that the roof is made of some kind of concrete. Why is the canister relatively undamaged, especially compared to the other pictures of canisters in the Bellingcat article?

Thank you for arguing about the evidence, Neven, instead of the politics.

I have a couple of comments on the cylinders :

First of all, I was not talking talking about that video with the cylinder on the bed.

That video is rather useless in the search for truth, since 1) it cannot be geo-located, and 2) it was not associated with any casualties. So we have no way of knowing if this is a 'staged' recording with the purpose of implying Assad, or if this cylinder really fell from the sky.

Instead, the cylinder that I talked about is the one from the video on the top of the roof of the building near al-Shuhada Square. I attached a snapshot here.

That cylinder is much more important because it is located on the roof of the house where the 34 victims were found.

Secondly, about that cylinder on the roof, it is hard to see how damaged it is without detailed on-site examination, but it is obviously less damaged than some other cylinders like the ones from the previous chlorine attacks on many other sites :



Now, the damage done to these containers increases with the altitude from where they are dropped. That suggests that in some of these prior chlorine attacks, the cylinders were dropped from high altitude, and thus cracked open like a soda-can upon impact.

These heavily damaged cylinders are of course a clear signature of an aerial attack, which implies that Assad forces dropped these cylinders.

I'd like to suggest that Assad learned his lesson and on Douma dropped chlorine cylinders from lower altitude, so that it is not immediately obvious they were dropped from the sky.

Third, to get an idea of what kind of velocities cause serious damage to the cylinder, and to the material they hit, please watch this video by MythBusters :


Here you see that the cylinder moving at 60 km/hr punches right through a masonry wall, and makes a good dent in the next wall. But not a scrach on that cylinder.

Simple calculations show that 60 km/hr corresponds to dropping the cylinder from about 30 meters altitude.

If we then look at the picture of the cylinder on top of the roof of the building near al-Shuhada Square, and see that it did not even go through the concrete roof, then I'd say that is consistent with an aerial drop from low altitude, between 30 and 50 meters.

Finally, if that cylinder did not drop from the sky, and instead was 'staged' or put in place afterwards, then why did all these people in the house die ? And if the people did not die in that house, then who moved the bodies in there without anyone noticing ? And who put the foam in their mouth ?

You see why a "false flag" or 'fabrication' of the attack of a on this house becomes increasingly unlikely now that the location of the cylinder and bodies is confirmed to be the same ?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 07:26:39 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3732 on: April 14, 2018, 02:52:32 PM »
Dimitry Orlov again on RI , taking a look at why we don't get an oppositely detatched [from reality] veiw from a Russian propaganda machine.
"But what about counterpropaganda? Aren’t the Russian government and media just as guilty of taking liberties with the truth? Once again, I would very much encourage you to do your own research (for which knowledge of Russian is, unfortunately, a requirement)."...
"Russia has been in the forefront of the movement to shift the world order from US-dominated unipolarity to multipolarity, and it is interested in having this process proceed smoothly. What allows countries to resolve their differences peacefully is international law. In turn, international law does not have some sort of supranational enforcement mechanism—no country has a monopoly on violence, and countries that transgress do not get sent to jail. Instead, the entire mechanism relies on everyone’s consent to abide by international agreements. And to reach consent all of the participants have to be able to participate in a single consensual reality—a single set of verifiable facts. This is why Russian counterpropaganda would be a nonstarter: it would endanger that consensual reality."

Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3733 on: April 14, 2018, 03:58:13 PM »
That international agreement stuff is noncence. If their would be a rebellion in France, and other people are bombing your country for years. And 1000's of fighters run into your country ( 10 000 from Europe) to support the rebels. And you don't have a real army left, would you not use everything you have to defend yourself ? Anyway, i don't belief the gas came from assat, because they were winning. It was Iranian backed militias that liberated Ramadi and Mosul. It was the Kurds that liberated Raqqah. After a multi year long failed air bombing campaing from the west, the only effects it had was that the entire infrastructure is destroyed. Why is the international community  not asking why so much scum from the west moved to Syria to slaughter these people ? Because the international community is responsable for all the foreign scum in Europe.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3734 on: April 14, 2018, 04:22:18 PM »
It looks like Mueller may have a direct tie between the Trump campaign and Russian meddling via 'the Fixer' Cohen:

Title: "Mueller has evidence that Trump lawyer met in Prague with Russians during campaign, sources say"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mueller-has-evidence-that-trump-lawyer-met-in-prague-with-russians-during-campaign-sources-say/ar-AAvRnHE?ocid=spartandhp

Extract: "The Justice Department special counsel has evidence that Donald Trump's personal lawyer and confidant, Michael Cohen, secretly made a late-summer trip to Prague during the 2016 presidential campaign, according to two sources familiar with the matter.

Confirmation of the trip would lend credence to a retired British spy's report that Cohen strategized there with a powerful Kremlin figure about Russian meddling in the U.S. election.

It would also be one of the most significant developments thus far in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation of whether the Trump campaign and the Kremlin worked together to help Trump win the presidency."
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3735 on: April 14, 2018, 04:26:09 PM »
Dimitry Orlov again on RI , taking a look at why we don't get an oppositely detatched [from reality] veiw from a Russian propaganda machine.
 This is why Russian counterpropaganda would be a nonstarter: it would endanger that consensual reality."

I'm sorry that's a patently ridiculous set of assertions.  He's saying, essentially, Western propaganda is a pack of lies, but Russian propaganda is the real truth.
Have you ever read SputnikNews?????????????

This opinion isn't serious dialogue, it's much like the distorted reality of a cult member.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:48:42 PM by SteveMDFP »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3736 on: April 14, 2018, 04:46:48 PM »
Just remember that Steele has given Mueller the names of all of his sources (some of whom have been killed), and that the Steele dossier is proving remarkably accurate, so Mueller may know a lot more that he is revealing.  Furthermore, the Steele dossier says that the Trump campaign paid for part of the cost of the Russian hackers, so if Mueller can prove that (say by bank records) then heads will roll:

Title: "Why the question of whether Michael Cohen visited Prague is massively important for Donald Trump"

https://www.vox.com/2018/4/13/17236660/michael-cohen-prague-trump-steele-dossier

Extract: "The Steele dossier claimed Cohen went to Prague to meet Russians. He’s said for more than a year that he didn’t.
...
Yet a new report from McClatchy’s Peter Stone and Greg Gordon claims that special counsel Robert Mueller has evidence that Cohen did, in fact, enter Prague through Germany at the height of the 2016 campaign, in “August or early September.”
...
The final report in the published Steele dossier, dated December 13 (after Trump was elected president), reiterated the claim of a Cohen/Prague meeting — now saying it happened in August or September 2016 — and gave many more supposed specifics (emphasis added):

COHEN had been accompanied to Prague by 3 colleagues and the timing of the visit was either in the last week of August or the first week of September. One of their main Russian interlocutors was Oleg SOLODUKHIN operating under Rossotrudnichestvo cover. According to [redacted], the agenda comprised questions on how deniable cash payments were to be made to hackers who had worked in Europe under Kremlin direction against the CLINTON campaign and various contingencies for covering up these operations and Moscow’s secret liaison with the TRUMP team more generally."
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 06:35:54 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3737 on: April 14, 2018, 06:36:29 PM »
Let me assure you that the two linked articles only discuss the tip-of-the-iceberg of evidence that the Pee Pee Tape is real, and if Cohen went to Prague in the summer of 2016 to negotiate a deal for the Trump campaign to support Russian meddling in the election as part of blackmail deal about the Pee Pee Tape, then Trump should be put in prison for life, without the opportunity for parole:

Title: "I'm a Peeliever and You Should Be, Too"
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2018/04/im-a-peeliever-and-you-should-be-too.html

Extract: "Steele himself has said that probably not every fact compiled in his dossier is true. The dossier was not intended as solid intelligence, but as a collection of leads. Still, the fact that Russia almost certainly murdered some of the sources for his reporting in the immediate wake of the dossier’s publication further attests to their credibility.

Update: One of the firmest denials Trump’s orbit has made of the Steele dossier has been its report that Michael Cohen met with Russian agents in Prague in the summer of 2016. Cohen has produced a passport showing no Czech visit. But McClatchy reports that Robert Mueller has evidence he did go to Prague to meet with Russians then, going through Germany, which would avoid any mark on his passport. In addition to constituting important evidence of collusion between Trump and Russia, this is significant corroboration of Steele’s work.

2. Trump is unhealthily obsessed with Obama. Trump’s fixation with Barack Obama has been evident since his 2011 humiliation at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. But as we have mapped out the contours of Trump’s unbalanced psyche over the course of his presidency to date, the centrality of Obama has grown even more evident. He would routinely tell guests touring the Oval Office that the previous president had ignored the room. “Obama never used the Oval, but Trump is different,” he would say, in his customary third-person.

And very credible accounts from Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal confirm him offering to pay for sex. If you hear somebody deny accusations X,Y, and Z all at once, and you know that X and Y are true, that has some bearing on whether you believe Z is true, also. Trump does not place the pee-tape allegation in some different category from things we know he did.

4. Trump’s alibi is at least partly false. Also according to Comey, Trump “argued that it could not be true because he had not stayed overnight in Moscow but had only used the hotel room to change his clothes.” But reporting by David Corn and Michael Isikoff reveal that Trump did spend a night at the hotel in Moscow where the episode was alleged to have taken place. Why would Trump offer up a false alibi for something that isn’t true?

&

Title: "Absolutely Every Single Thing We Know About the Pee Tape"

https://www.thecut.com/2018/04/donald-trump-pee-tape.html

Extract: "This week, media outlets got their first look at former FBI Director James Comey’s upcoming book, A Higher Loyalty: Truth, Lies, and Leadership, in which he reveals, among other things, that President Trump asked him to look into the existence of the infamous pee tape.

As Jane Mayer noted in The New Yorker, all four of Steele’s sources on the pee tape had only secondhand knowledge of it — none of them had seen it themselves or spoken to the prostitutes allegedly involved.

That being said, they seem like fairly knowledgeable players. According to Mayer, they are described as: “a former top-level Russian intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin,” a “member of the staff at the hotel,” a “female staffer at the hotel when trump had stayed there,” and “a close associate of Trump who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow.”

The former FBI Director says Trump asked him to investigate whether Putin has the tape, and writes, “He brought up what he called the ‘golden showers thing’ … adding that it bothered him if there was ‘even a 1 percent chance’ his wife, Melania, thought it was true. He just rolled on, unprompted, explaining why it couldn’t possibly be true, ending by saying he was thinking of asking me to investigate the allegation to prove it was a lie. I said it was up to him.”

Comey also made headlines when ABC released a clip of his upcoming interview with George Stephanopoulos in which he says it’s “possible” the pee tape is real:"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3738 on: April 14, 2018, 07:13:43 PM »
It's "possible" that none of it is true at all.


It's "possible" is such a ridiculously low bar that it's usually reserved for tales of alien abduction.


It's "possible" doesn't even address if it's "reasonable", "believable" or even "probable"


"Your Honor, it's "possible" that he dressed up as his mother, took the Concord to Paris, and returned in time for his breakfast bagel."
"Well, in that case let's hang the blighter"
"Beg pardon your Honor, but it's also "possible" that he was home in his bed while the crime was committed."
" Ah, Hrumph, We are well cognisant of the spurious arguments of the learned defense. It's "possible" I'll let the him go. and it's "possible" I won't. It's "possible" I'll rule on an Appeal the week after his execution."


"It's possible" Bah Humbug
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3739 on: April 14, 2018, 07:25:15 PM »
It's possible that the Skripals were poisoned by the Swiss invented and US developed chemical weapon known as BZ.
Non lethal, slow acting (2/3 hrs), and a swiss lab, or rather The Swiss Lab has identified it as what incapacitated the Skripals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

Could this be why the doctor insisted they'd never treated anyone for nerve agents. It's possible!
Terry

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3740 on: April 14, 2018, 07:57:57 PM »
It's possible that the Skripals were poisoned by the Swiss invented and US developed chemical weapon known as BZ.
Non lethal, slow acting (2/3 hrs), and a swiss lab, or rather The Swiss Lab has identified it as what incapacitated the Skripals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

Could this be why the doctor insisted they'd never treated anyone for nerve agents. It's possible!
Terry

What documentation exists that the Swiss lab identified it here?  Note from Wikipedia:
"The characteristic that makes BZ an incapacitating rather than a toxic chemical warfare agent is its high safety margin (ICt50/LCt50) of around 40-fold"

Why on earth would anyone attack anyone with this essentially non-lethal, hallucinogenic agent?
And how would its use lead to many days of critical care?

Not credible.

Edit:  Oh, I see. According to RussiaToday (RT), Lavrov made these uncorroborated claims:
Lavrov: Swiss lab says ‘BZ toxin’ used in Salisbury, not produced in Russia, was in US & UK service
https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/

Terry, please do provide a reference when you parrot such implausible claims.

But of course, Russia never engages in misinformation.
And of course, RT is utterly reliable.   /sarc
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 08:05:56 PM by SteveMDFP »

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3741 on: April 14, 2018, 08:16:37 PM »
Still, the fact that Russia almost certainly murdered some of the sources for his reporting in the immediate wake of the dossier’s publication further attests to their credibility.

I'll read past the 'fact almost certainly'  ::) and assert that maybe this is why Russia wanted Skripal dead, because he was one of Steele's sources. Now that would make a lot more sense to me than the arguments I have read so far for Russia being behind the Skripal poisoning (a 'warning', etc), but strangely enough, haven't read it anywhere so far.
The enemy is within
Don't confuse me with him

E. Smith

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3742 on: April 14, 2018, 08:20:58 PM »

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3743 on: April 14, 2018, 08:21:30 PM »

How is it that not one dead adult male is pictured?

Hard to say.  Possibly the adults were better able to leave the shelter when they smelled chlorine.
Possibly the adult males were anticipating ground forces in follow-up to the bombing, and were at the entrances to the enclave.
Quite possibly, children are more sensitive to toxicity from chlorine and nerve agents.

Quote
If a certain group is "in control" of a certain area, why aren't they the suspected poisoners?

The Sunni fighters in Douma were defending their enclave, including the civilians, from Assad's anticipated brutality.  They'd been doing so for several years.  They would not likely kill the children they were risking their lives to defend.

Quote
Didn't Assad's troops publish videos of a captured CW facility just days before this event?

Yes, and i'd commented on that.  The only notable equipment shown was a hospital air compressor.  A photo also of some bottles of chemicals.  Nothing persuasive from my perspective.  But if Assad were planning such an assault, why wouldn't he claim he was fighting forces using WMDs, to shift blame?  Assad is not above asserting false information.

Quote
Didn't Russia warn of the strong possibility of a false flag just days before this occurred?

That's also a very plausible propaganda ploy if they knew Assad was planning such an assault.

Quote
Why would Russia demand, and Assad ask for an OPCW investigation?

Possibly because such past investigations were inconclusive.  Possibly because they felt they could clean up the site before inspection.  The site was rather immediately under Russian control after the bombing.  Note, the chemical attack was successful in prompting immediate surrender of the rebels.

Why would rebels gas their own people immediately before surrender?  I don't think they would.  However, they would surrender if they feared more chemical attacks on the people they were trying to protect.

Quote
Did Mathis admit that there was no evidence of Assad ever using chemical weapons?

Nope.  Mattis' words were taken out of context.  This wasn't the situation over which he said he had no evidence.

Quote
This is an attempt to propagandise enough support for the coming war to allow the perpetrators to later claim that they were deceived just like so many others.

That's a plausible interpretation of the information.  I think it's far more plausible that Assad authorized a chemical attack, because it was (clearly) strategically useful, and he faces no credible serious repercussions.  Just like the rationale Truman used in bombing Hiroshima.

Quote
Remember the incubator babies!
Terry

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.  All sides use propaganda and false information.  "Our side" has no monopoly on misinformation.  Or brutality.

Steve, you are wasting your time. This is effectively a Russian propaganda troll. Don't feed the trolls and parrots.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3744 on: April 14, 2018, 08:21:51 PM »
It's possible that the Skripals were poisoned by the Swiss invented and US developed chemical weapon known as BZ.
Non lethal, slow acting (2/3 hrs), and a swiss lab, or rather The Swiss Lab has identified it as what incapacitated the Skripals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-Quinuclidinyl_benzilate

Could this be why the doctor insisted they'd never treated anyone for nerve agents. It's possible!
Terry

What documentation exists that the Swiss lab identified it here?  Note from Wikipedia:
"The characteristic that makes BZ an incapacitating rather than a toxic chemical warfare agent is its high safety margin (ICt50/LCt50) of around 40-fold"

Why on earth would anyone attack anyone with this essentially non-lethal, hallucinogenic agent?
And how would its use lead to many days of critical care?

Not credible.

Edit:  Oh, I see. According to RussiaToday (RT), Lavrov made these uncorroborated claims:
Lavrov: Swiss lab says ‘BZ toxin’ used in Salisbury, not produced in Russia, was in US & UK service
https://www.rt.com/news/424149-skripal-poisoning-bz-lavrov/

Terry, please do provide a reference when you parrot such implausible claims.

But of course, Russia never engages in misinformation.
And of course, RT is utterly reliable.   /sarc
Has the wikipedia site changed so rapidly? It linked to the RT article when I posted.
I'd propose waiting until someone confirms/denighs the easily refutable claims. Let's just sit on our Tomahawks until then.
As far as why someone would attack anyone with such a substance, you'd have to ask the American developers. I could never understand why Russia would attack an old spy that they had released years ago, let alone why they would have used chemicals.


Besides, my new standard is ASLR's - "it's possible".


Goose, Gander, and all of that.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3745 on: April 14, 2018, 08:25:58 PM »
Re: Swiss lab report on Skirpal agent

RT link states the name of the lab is Spiez.

"The substance used on Sergei Skripal was an agent called BZ, according to Swiss state Spiez lab, the Russian foreign minister said. The toxin was never produced in Russia, but was in service in the US, UK, and other NATO states. "

"Lavrov said that the Swiss center that assessed the samples is actually the Spiez Laboratory. This facility is a Swiss state research center controlled by the Swiss Federal Office for Civil Protection"

Maybe Spiez will issue a comment but i don't see anything in the swiss media yet.

sidd


TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3746 on: April 14, 2018, 08:30:51 PM »

How is it that not one dead adult male is pictured?

Hard to say.  Possibly the adults were better able to leave the shelter when they smelled chlorine.
Possibly the adult males were anticipating ground forces in follow-up to the bombing, and were at the entrances to the enclave.
Quite possibly, children are more sensitive to toxicity from chlorine and nerve agents.

Quote
If a certain group is "in control" of a certain area, why aren't they the suspected poisoners?

The Sunni fighters in Douma were defending their enclave, including the civilians, from Assad's anticipated brutality.  They'd been doing so for several years.  They would not likely kill the children they were risking their lives to defend.

Quote
Didn't Assad's troops publish videos of a captured CW facility just days before this event?

Yes, and i'd commented on that.  The only notable equipment shown was a hospital air compressor.  A photo also of some bottles of chemicals.  Nothing persuasive from my perspective.  But if Assad were planning such an assault, why wouldn't he claim he was fighting forces using WMDs, to shift blame?  Assad is not above asserting false information.

Quote
Didn't Russia warn of the strong possibility of a false flag just days before this occurred?

That's also a very plausible propaganda ploy if they knew Assad was planning such an assault.

Quote
Why would Russia demand, and Assad ask for an OPCW investigation?

Possibly because such past investigations were inconclusive.  Possibly because they felt they could clean up the site before inspection.  The site was rather immediately under Russian control after the bombing.  Note, the chemical attack was successful in prompting immediate surrender of the rebels.

Why would rebels gas their own people immediately before surrender?  I don't think they would.  However, they would surrender if they feared more chemical attacks on the people they were trying to protect.

Quote
Did Mathis admit that there was no evidence of Assad ever using chemical weapons?

Nope.  Mattis' words were taken out of context.  This wasn't the situation over which he said he had no evidence.

Quote
This is an attempt to propagandise enough support for the coming war to allow the perpetrators to later claim that they were deceived just like so many others.

That's a plausible interpretation of the information.  I think it's far more plausible that Assad authorized a chemical attack, because it was (clearly) strategically useful, and he faces no credible serious repercussions.  Just like the rationale Truman used in bombing Hiroshima.

Quote
Remember the incubator babies!
Terry

Past performance is no guarantee of future returns.  All sides use propaganda and false information.  "Our side" has no monopoly on misinformation.  Or brutality.

Steve, you are wasting your time. This is effectively a Russian propaganda troll. Don't feed the trolls and parrots.


Martin, is that you?
Ever since you developed your clear understanding of the "deplorables" by once taking a bus through "fly over country" I've feared being exposed by your razor like wit.


When a parrot attempts "wit", "twit" is often all that is heard.
Terry

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3747 on: April 14, 2018, 08:35:10 PM »
Re: Swiss lab report on Skirpal agent

RT link states the name of the lab is Spiez.

"The substance used on Sergei Skripal was an agent called BZ, according to Swiss state Spiez lab, the Russian foreign minister said. The toxin was never produced in Russia, but was in service in the US, UK, and other NATO states. "

"Lavrov said that the Swiss center that assessed the samples is actually the Spiez Laboratory. This facility is a Swiss state research center controlled by the Swiss Federal Office for Civil Protection"

Maybe Spiez will issue a comment but i don't see anything in the swiss media yet.

sidd


It's certainly easy enough to refute. The formula of the "very pure" substance apparently was provided by the lab. Everything except the common name.


We've more than a few chemists on the thread.
Terry

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3748 on: April 14, 2018, 08:36:27 PM »

sedziobs

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #3749 on: April 14, 2018, 08:37:27 PM »
Besides, my new standard is ASLR's - "it's possible".
ALSR didn't say that, Comey did.
Quote
I honestly never thought these words would come out of my mouth, but I don’t know whether the current president of the United States was with prostitutes peeing on each other in Moscow in 2013. It’s possible, but I don’t know.

It's possible the chemical attack was a false flag.  That hasn't stopped you from repeatedly claiming it as fact.