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rboyd

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Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« on: June 13, 2017, 09:47:28 PM »
What is the role for the "traditional" mass transit options in the low carbon future? A question that seems to have fundamentally different questions between countries, seemingly based as much upon political ideology as much as local variables (e.g. population density, previous transport policies etc.).

I found some very interesting documents on the considerations of when to build train systems, and the most appropriate ownership models. Also the issues between when the train tracks are predominantly owned by the passenger transit providers (Europe, Japan etc.) and the haulage providers (the United States).

Vertical railway integration (operators own the tracks they run on) seems to be the most effective model for long-distance operators. The problems with separation were seen in the UK privatization, where the separate track operator ended up being renationalized and there have been calls to renationalize the train operators as well.

Economic effects of Vertical Separation in the railway sector

http://www.cer.be/sites/default/files/publication/Full-Report.pdf

Railway in Sweden and Japan – a comparative study

http://www.trafa.se/globalassets/rapporter/report_2014_12_railway_in_sweden_and_japan_-_a_comparative_study.pdf

The Four Big Myths Of UK Rail Privatization

http://actionforrail.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Four_Big_Myths_Rail_Privatisation_Report_2015_LR.pdf

The Great Train Robbery

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/tucfiles/The_Great_Train_Robbery_7June2013.pdf

Trump’s budget proposal slashes funding for Amtrak’s long-distance train routes — but it's not all bad

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-budget-proposal-amtrak-2017-3

The Economic Case for Rail Subsidies

https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2013/03/economic-case-rail-subsidies/5007/

So are trams really better than buses?

A very well-balanced piece on trams versus buses. Seems to me that very regular electric buses on a properly segregated bus lane will always be better than trams. What am I missing (the city of Toronto where I live is busy putting in trams and 'light-railways')

http://www.citymetric.com/transport/so-are-trams-really-better-buses-2623

Then of course, there is the possibility of self-driving buses with the same capacity as a tram. Assign a dedicated lane, put the sensors on the road and off you go. Well, that's how its supposed to work!































« Last Edit: June 13, 2017, 10:34:28 PM by rboyd »

numerobis

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 03:40:55 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/florida-high-speed-train-brightline-project

A new "high-speed" train has been built in Florida. It's pretty tepid high-speed (about 180 km/h) but still, it's something.

Of course, this being the US, they managed to screw up. There's at-grade crossings. That's fundamentally incompatible with high-speed rail. So far they've killed two pedestrians.

Also, it's a diesel train in the sunshine state.

TerryM

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 06:31:02 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/28/florida-high-speed-train-brightline-project

A new "high-speed" train has been built in Florida. It's pretty tepid high-speed (about 180 km/h) but still, it's something.

Of course, this being the US, they managed to screw up. There's at-grade crossings. That's fundamentally incompatible with high-speed rail. So far they've killed two pedestrians.

Also, it's a diesel train in the sunshine state.


If they pushed it just a bit, they might be able to catch the 1905 record for a steam engine train of 185 kph (115 mph).  :)

http://www.ba-bamail.com/content.aspx?emailid=24989

Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2018, 05:06:39 PM »
“Why is this train flying above a city in @Amtrak's ad?
That's not how trains work.”
https://mobile.twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/957708657529098241

 ;D
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2018, 07:56:46 PM »
Germany Considers Free Public Transport to Fight Air Pollution
Quote
In car-obsessed Germany, the government is considering free public transportation in some of its most polluted cities to reduce road traffic and emissions from private vehicles.

"We are considering public transport free of charge in order to reduce the number of private cars," three ministers wrote in a letter to EU environment commissioner Karmenu Vella in Brussels.

"Effectively fighting air pollution without any further unnecessary delays is of the highest priority for Germany," the ministers added.

A trial of the proposal is planned for the cities of Bonn, Essen, Herrenberg, Reutlingen and Mannheim "at the end of the year at the latest."
...
https://www.ecowatch.com/germany-air-pollution-2534823666.amp.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2018, 07:59:05 PM »
Renewable energy to power Eurostar fleet by 2030
Quote
Eurostar is aiming to switch to green energy to power all of its rail services by 2030.

The target was included in a new 10-point environmental plan launched by the operator earlier today (February 7).

The ‘Tread Lightly’ plan states “We will eliminate the use of fossil fuel energy for all of our train journeys across our markets by 2030”.

Eurostar is looking to follow in the footsteps of the Dutch state railway operator NS, which now uses wind energy to power its electric train fleet.

The cross-border operator also wants to see a 5 per cent reduction in train energy by 2020. It plans to do this by installing energy meters on its e320 fleet. ...
https://www.globalrailnews.com/2018/02/07/renewable-energy-to-power-eurostar-fleet-by-2030/
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jai mitchell

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Sebastian Jones

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2018, 05:43:46 PM »
Thank you Jai Mitchell for posting the link to your presentation. For what it is worth, it was your doggedness in the multiple postings that finally convinced me to open it.  There are so many of us across the world now saying these things- that there is a path forward towards true sustainability and resilience, that we do have viable plans. That alone is encouraging. In addition, as the message you brought gets disseminated over and over again, it starts to become easier and easier to get some traction with policy makers. We are about to engage in a large strategy to connect up climate policies, energy policies and economic policies in Yukon. It is my fervent hope that we get much further this time than in the previous plans and strategies that existed in separate silos.

wehappyfew

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2018, 06:29:07 PM »
That's a big cat!

Nice work on the plan from me, too.

"If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken" - Carl Sagan

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2018, 03:20:13 PM »
Building mass transit for the 21st century is challenging, and requires entirely new approaches....

Editorial: To address San Francisco Bay Area traffic, build the BART tube, skip the bridge
https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/Editorial-To-address-Bay-Area-traffic-build-the-12668394.php

Elon Musk went on a Twitter rant about America's failing infrastructure — and it made his Hyperloop idea sound less crazy
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-infrastructure-rant-helps-hyperloop-case-2018-2

Chinese workers build railway station in just nine hours
Seven trains and 23 diggers were used alongside 1,500 people, to complete the huge construction project
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/chinese-workers-productivity-build-nanlong-railway-station-nine-hours-longyan-a8173881.html
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Sleepy

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2018, 04:34:33 PM »
Solutions that work well in other countries, all seem to be totally impossible in the US.  :-\

I wish we were half as active mitigating, as those Chinese workers were building that station.  :)
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TerryM

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2018, 09:29:34 PM »
Solutions that work well in other countries, all seem to be totally impossible in the US.  :-\

I wish we were half as active mitigating, as those Chinese workers were building that station.  :)
That clip is amazing!
The workers literally run from position to position.
The planning, coordination and timing beat anything I've ever witnessed by some orders of magnitude.


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 08:34:23 PM »
The $13 billion Gateway rail tunnel project under New York City’s Hudson River was rated #1 in importance — until politics got in the way.

Trump Said to Tell Republicans Not to Approve Hudson Rail Tunnel Funds
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-03/trump-said-to-tell-gop-not-to-approve-hudson-rail-tunnel-project

Trump disputes funding for $13B Hudson River tunnel project
https://www.constructiondive.com/news/trump-disputes-funding-for-13b-hudson-river-tunnel-project/513938/


Selling hats and flamethrowers to help fund a smaller/faster/cheaper tunnel transportation option looks more attractive every day. ;)  Although the Gateway tunnel serves many local passengers, it is also an Amtrak line.  So, as long as the Boring Company is (potentially) digging tunnels in New York anyway....

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2018, 11:46:52 PM »
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion
Quote
The California bullet train project took a sharp jump in price Friday when the state rail authority announced the cost of connecting Los Angeles to San Francisco would total $77.3 billion, an increase of $13 billion from estimates two years ago, and could potentially rise as high as $98.1 billion.
...
The rail authority found that nobody could be sure what was under the ground in Fresno, driving up the cost of relocating sewers, water lines, communications cables and electrical conduits by hundreds of millions of dollars. Freight railroads insisted that the rail authority build barriers that would protect passenger trains from derailments on nearby freight tracks, a requirement that drove up costs by hundreds of millions of dollars, as well. ...
http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-bullet-train-cost-increase-20180309-story.html

Just a note here that Boring Company tunnels would be deep enough underground (~40 feet / 12m) to avoid all those problems.... ;)
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ghoti

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2018, 03:12:18 AM »
Quote
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion

And that's not the least of it - planned date is 2033! Are you kidding me? 15 years during which cost will grow and delays will accumulate. It isn't even a very high speed train.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2018, 01:45:09 PM »
Quote
Cost for California bullet train system rises to $77.3 billion

And that's not the least of it - planned date is 2033! Are you kidding me? 15 years during which cost will grow and delays will accumulate. It isn't even a very high speed train.

Gotta wonder if this announcement was the impetus for Elon Musk’s announcement that the Boring Company projects would now prioritize pedestrians and cyclists over cars....

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1094.msg145373.html#msg145373
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2018, 02:26:59 PM »
If you read a bit further, the Elon Poll continues: ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2018, 07:01:04 PM »
A tunnel predating World War I is key to 20 percent of the U.S. gross domestic product.

Some facts and figures on the New York Gateway rail tunnel.

How Trump’s Hudson Tunnel Feud Threatens the National Economy
Quote
Economic risks keeping Americans up at night include the hastily rewritten tax code and the possibility of a global trade war set off by U.S. tariffs. Consider another cause for insomnia: President Donald Trump’s opposition to a new rail tunnel linking New York and New Jersey beneath the Hudson River.

The current link is shot, corroded by age and chemical-tainted flood water. That’s unnerving enough for the 820,000 passengers a day traveling to New York City jobs or some other U.S. Northeast destination. For those farther afield, there’s the chilling fact that a tunnel predating World War I is key to 20 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product.

The first locomotive chugged through the Pennsylvania Railroad’s 2.5-mile tunnel in 1910. Amtrak, its current owner, says it’s still safe, albeit unreliable, and in constant need of temporary fixes. But say its haywire electrical system finally goes kaput, or its cracked concrete walls and ceilings yield to the river’s muck. There goes the New York City commute for Wall Streeters, big-city accountants and lawyers from New Jersey suburbs, plus the legions that work in health, tech, tourism and retail. Beyond New York, that’s the end of Boston-to-Washington service on the nation’s busiest passenger-rail route.
...
You say you don’t need trains? The Washington and Boston stations, Amtrak’s second- and sixth-busiest, have a combined 6.7 million riders a year. At least 71 percent say that without Amtrak, they’d fly or drive. Think about it: If that antique Hudson River tunnel is taken out of service before a second one is built, some of the nation’s most trafficked highways and airports will have to accommodate millions more travelers, all of them eager to get somewhere. Just like you.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-hudson-river-amtrak-tunnel-american-economy/
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oren

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2018, 07:47:54 PM »
Maybe this should go under the header of empire collapse. Seriously, what was possible in 1910 is somehow difficult in 2018? I guess the future isn't what it used to be.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2018, 03:29:22 PM »
"There are a lot of things in this world that can get you down, but life can’t be about solving one miserable problem after another," Musk said. "There has to be things that inspire you, to make you wake up in the morning and be proud of humanity. That’s why we did this. There’s a guy, Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, who said, 'The Earth is the cradle of humanity, but mankind cannot stay in the cradle forever.' It's time to become a starboard civilization and expand our consciousness. I find that incredibly exciting, and I'm excited to be alive."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/972628124893671432
Falcon Heavy video at the link.
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Sleepy

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2018, 06:55:38 PM »
Posting this here as well, since it's better suited in this thread.
First the summary from ARTBA:
https://www.artba.org/2018/01/29/54000-american-bridges-structurally-deficient-analysis-new-federal-data-shows/

And the following response to Terry, also from the cars thread. Adding this first:
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/rolling-friction-resistance-d_1303.html
Railroad steel wheels on steel rails has a 10-15 times lower rolling coefficient than truck tires.


At speed, wheel friction is a neglible force compared to atmospheric drag — and the Tesla semi truck is optimized to reduce that drag, particularly in convoy mode, in ways trains cannot.  (Physically streamlined on all surfaces; ability to vary following distance to achieve lowest drag between trucks; precise battery/energy management.)

Do you have links for this?


IIRC Sleepy had a link that showed fore and aft atmospheric drag to be less than 8%, combined, and that was on a 19 car HSR set. Wouldn't slowing everything down to trucking speeds, then adding a hundred additional cars to make it a rather small modern train, almost eliminate fore/aft drag as a consideration?

The percentages I posted are from an engineer and instructor at SJ.
https://www.sj.se/en/about/about-sj.html

Here are percentages from a Swedish train buff for the air resistance of a typical (rather long...) high-speed train with 14 cars:

4.5% Front
3.5% aft
45% bogie and wheels
8% power take-off
4% air intake
7.5% Bottom
27% Surface friction from sides and ceilings

That is also one of the main reasons for Rodolphe Nieth to design a maglev train in underground vacuum tunnels, back in 1974. And the end of that saga came in 2009.

Percentages does not differ much between HSR and LSR. Total air resistance does with the speed, of course.

I could send him an email and ask for sources if you wish?

There are very good reasons for why the japanese maglev bullet train looks like it does.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2018, 07:02:35 PM »

The future will be different, but it doesn't matter what or how we build, the hard part will always be the same. Maintaining it.


A very long time ago I was working in a poverty-stricken ex-Portuguese colony. When anything was bust (and a lot was bust) , the response was a shrug and " Falta manutenção".

But it was a wonderful place to work and live.
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TerryM

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2018, 11:06:06 PM »
Thanks Sleepy.
I had remembered it as 19 cars rather than 14. My bad.


The 10% to 15% figure for the rolling coefficient has to be coupled with the number of wheels making contact with either the road or the track. An 18 wheeler has by definition 18 tires rolling down the highway. A modern lowboy rail car that carries between 2 and 4 trailers has 4 steel wheels.
A rail car with 4 wheels is replacing 2 semis with a minimum of 36 tires, or 9 tires for each steel wheel.
Since each tire requires 10 to 15 times as much energy to roll, it will require between 90 and 135 times more energy just to drag those tires along, unless they stack the trailers on the train. :(


No pedestrians, no red lights, no hot rod kids or little old ladies to avoid. Drop it on a train in Vancouver and offload it at your siding in Montreal.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2018, 01:23:13 AM »
“The one redeeming thing about my morning commute is that the commuter trains in Stockholm are named by the local pre schools. This week I’ve commuted on Best Friend, Glitter, Princess Train, and Wizard Train.”
https://twitter.com/ingebjorgthor/status/990684528724324352

The entire Twitter thread is filled with similar findings. :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2018, 09:26:13 PM »
Horrors!  ;D

Japanese train departs 25 seconds early - again
Quote
A Japanese rail company has apologised after a train left a station 25 seconds early, the second such case in months.
The operator said the "great inconvenience we placed upon our customers was truly inexcusable".
If the details are anything to go by, customers are faced with slipping standards: a train last November left 20 seconds early while this time it was a full 25 seconds premature. ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-44149791


I wonder how punctual the next generation of mass transit (Loop, Hyperloop) will be. 
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2018, 09:31:38 PM »
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2018, 03:43:05 PM »
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.

But will a pod, reserved for passengers going to their selected destination, delay its departure to wait for a late arrival?  Or will it take off without them?  What if it knows, by checking their current location via their phone app, how close they are to arriving at the pod?  Will it “care”? 

At least you won’t see people running after a pod they just missed.  ;)
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2018, 05:33:35 PM »
Computer operated.  Shouldn't be any of that sloppy human 25 second error stuff.

But will a pod, reserved for passengers going to their selected destination, delay its departure to wait for a late arrival?  Or will it take off without them?  What if it knows, by checking their current location via their phone app, how close they are to arriving at the pod?  Will it “care”? 

At least you won’t see people running after a pod they just missed.  ;)

I've never seen a subway train wait for people.  And running after a subway is a bit problematic.

I did manage to hold up a plane for about a half hour once because the person I was traveling with hadn't made it to the plane yet.  But that's not something one could get away with these days.

--

I take that back.  I recently heard about a bride so distraught about her sister (?) missing her wedding that the head cabin crew member and pilot "remembered something that they had to do" and left the plane for a few minutes.  I'm guessing small local plane. 

I held up a big passenger plane.  ;o)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2018, 07:29:59 PM »
Exactly!  Perhaps the pod will notify its passengers, “Your missing party will arrive momentarily.  Please remain seated.  Your ride will begin momentarily.  ‘So fun.’  :)
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Yuha

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2018, 10:47:31 AM »
I take that back.  I recently heard about a bride so distraught about her sister (?) missing her wedding that the head cabin crew member and pilot "remembered something that they had to do" and left the plane for a few minutes.  I'm guessing small local plane. 

Reminds me of this recent event:

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/wednesdays_papers_finns_top_soot_stats_rules_for_ex-ministers_tourist_family_train_switch/10085198

Quote
A family of three on a tourist holiday in the north of Finland found themselves in a pickle when they failed to disembark from a Helsinki-Rovaniemi train in time at the station in Kemi, where they had hotel reservations. It was Sunday night, past the bedtime of the family's 5-year-old son, with no guarantee of a place to sleep at the next stop in Tervola. The -21 degree temperature made things seem doubly bleak, until conductor Sakari Puotiniemi stepped in.

"After we left Kemi I did my rounds along the train cars, and encountered this lost family," he says in IL. "I knew another train in the opposite direction would be along soon, so I made a few phone calls."

Puotiniemi says that trains can't usually just be stopped in the middle of the tracks on a whim, but that unusual times call for unusual measures.

The trains screeched to a halt side by side on parallel tracks, and the family galumphed through the knee-deep snow to the train that would deliver them safely to their original destination.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2018, 09:33:27 PM »
Perhaps this will help others understand why many Americans don’t view subways as the ultimate gleaming solution enjoyed by many other countries. ;) :o

New York City’s subway disaster now has its own 8-bit video game
https://www.theverge.com/2018/5/26/17389768/new-york-citys-subway-disaster-now-has-its-own-8-bit-video-game
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2018, 04:29:00 PM »
New Hork City’s Hudson River Tunnel Project Pushes for U.S. Aid After Cutting Cost
•  Trump administration rescinded Obama support for plan
•  Backers say $160 million cut from related bridge project
Quote
The Gateway plan to replace two century-old commuter-train tunnels linking Manhattan and New Jersey should now be re-evaluated for federal aid after organizers cut costs and refined the design.

Supporters delivered that message Friday, saying the U.S. government needs to revisit its initial skepticism. More than $160 million has been cut from a $1.6 billion replacement for the Portal North Bridge over the Hackensack River in New Jersey, which will replace a 108-year-old swing-span drawbridge that closes for maritime traffic. That will improve access to and from the new tunnels under the Hudson River.

The $13 billion cost of the new tunnels secured a commitment from former President Barack Obama that the federal government would share half the costs. That promise was nullified by President Donald Trump’s Department of Transportation last year. Administration officials said the states couldn’t be considered to be sharing half the costs if they were also borrowing money for the project from the federal government, even though the states would repay it.

The current tunnels suffered corrosive damage in 2012 when they were flooded with salt water during Hurricane Sandy, and have an estimated 20 years more of use before they fail, Gateway officials have said.

The consequences of a shutdown without a replacement would be devastating to East Coast rail traffic serving a corridor between Washington and Boston representing about 10 percent of the U.S. economy, said Steven Cohen, chairman of the Gateway Program Development Corp. He said the project will allow more capacity, faster trains and improved reliability.


“These federal loans, they’re designed for this purpose,” Cohen told reporters at a press conference Friday. “This project will move forward because it has to move forward. You can’t be in a position that this tunnel could fail.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-29/nyc-hudson-tunnel-project-pushes-for-u-s-aid-after-cutting-cost
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2018, 05:41:05 PM »
As a regular rider of mass transit in Chicago, I would just like to say that the above ground transit trains are a far more pleasant ride than the subways. The passing aerial views are quite pleasant on your travels.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2018, 08:26:25 PM »
Bombardier unveils a new battery-powered train
Quote
“We want to continue to electrify rail transport. A train that can charge its batteries from the overhead line while driving is a huge step toward this and the epitome of innovation. On non-electrified or only partially electrified routes, the motto is: move away from diesel on the tracks and toward cleaner and more environmentally-friendly mobility.”

Bombardier says that the train “does not generate any exhaust and sets the standards for smart mobility with peak values of 90 percent in the areas of efficiency and recyclability.”
https://electrek.co/2018/09/14/bombardier-battery-powered-train/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2018, 09:21:22 PM »
So... tunnels?

China green-lights first underwater high-speed railway
Quote
The line will connect Ningbo, a port city south of Shanghai, to Zhoushan, an archipelago off the east coast.
The proposed underwater tunnel will be a part of the 77-kilometer Yong-Zhou Railway plan (Yong is the nickname of Ningbo) to boost tourism and create a two-hour-commute zone within Zhejiang Province.
First mentioned in a government transportation plan in 2005, the feasibility study of the Yong-Zhou Railway plan was approved by Beijing in November.
Within the 77 km (47.8 miles) railway route, some 70.92 km of tracks will be newly built, including a 16.2 km undersea section. ...
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/china-underwater-high-speed-railway/index.html
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TerryM

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2018, 10:56:23 AM »
sidd had linked to an article about free bus transportation in Dunkirk France. It's proving very popular and I see it as at least part of the solution.


Personally I don't like being in a car that I'm not driving, buses are a different story.
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NeilT

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2018, 03:00:15 PM »
A little while ago the press was full of a study which stated that humans would grow longer thumbs in 5,000 years time because of texting.

Let us take a step back away from that incredibly vertical study and think for a second.

Why do we text with out thumbs?  How fast is technology moving?  Is it more or less likely that we will use voice commands for everything within 50 years?

Voice technology may be maturing at a rapid rate, but cranial implant research is in its infancy.  However even in infancy, cranial implants are beginning to make real strides.

In short, the scientist that made the "evolution" prediction of the our thumbs growing in 5,000 years ignored almost every single other datum point around the study.

OK long preamble over.

Now let us apply the logic to Autonomous vehicles.  The stated premise was that autonomous vehicles would be hard to use.  OK so who uses Uber?  I took an Uber, recently, where the driver was both deaf and dumb.  My Uber notification warned me that it might be difficult to communicate with the driver because he had severe communication difficulties.  In fact Technology assured that the driver knew where I was going from and where I was going to before I ever stepped into the vehicle. 

I thought that was a wonderful way to give a job to someone who could never have dreamed of being a cab driver any other way.

So, assuming our Autonomous cab is not the best communicator in the world, let's apply the same technology.

I want to do a journey, I'm alone, I don't have luggage.  I pull out my NotUber app and request my autonomous vehicle to take me from A-B.  The app assesses the journey, the size of vehicle I will need, the amount of power it will need, the power state of the available vehicles close to me and then allocates an autonomous vehicle.

My Cab turns up, it is exactly the size I need, it homes in on my phone and pulls to the kerb but won't open until my phone asks it to open.  No lost cab's there.  My Autonomous cab then takes me from my pick up point to my destination with the minimum fuss and hassle.

This morning I took a flight from Stansted airport.  The flight was at 07:50 and I needed to be there around 1.5 hours before.  Had I needed to take public transport, I would have had to get up at 01:30, take three night busses to Liverpool street station and stand for 20 minutes in the rain at one of the stops, get on a 45 minute train journey which only starts running from Liverpool street station around 04:30.  The night busses run every 30 minutes so the requirement to be extremely early is strong.  Once at Stansted I would then have to hang around for a few hours waiting for my flight.

Instead I walked to my car and left at 04:00, drove for 55 minutes to the parking and then took a 10 minute bus ride to the airport.  I arrived before the three busses and train would have got me there.  I bought a lounge pass and relaxed until my flight.

Had I been able to take an autonomous vehicle, I would have left even later, been dropped right at the terminal building and not had to pay parking for the weekend.

Public transport, as we see it today, is a reflection of the technology and capabilities of the 19th century, upgraded with early 20th century technology.  In the 21st century our technology and choices are different.  Insisting that we all continue to use 19th and 20th century technology in the 21st century just switches people off.  They have their place but they are not compatible with 21st century life in a very large swathe of the population.

Thus the person sending the message is ignored, derided or called a liar.  Hardly the message we want to send for the resolution of climate change.

There is a "scientist" who, in all seriousness, predicted that if everyone drove at 30mph, all the time, everyone would get to their destination faster.

It is 400 miles from London to Edinburgh.  Apparently nobody has the need to do that journey.

Go figure!


Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

magnamentis

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2018, 03:23:59 PM »
  Is it more or less likely that we will use voice commands for everything within 50 years?

Voice technology may be maturing at a rapid rate, but cranial implant research is in its infancy. 

once that will be the case that wherever i go, sit, shop, relax etc. eveyone around me is talking to his device i'll definitely go to a sparely populated island which is something i seriously consider anways. alternative is to live on a boat and if it were not for pirates all over the nice planet earth i'd have opted for boat life already.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2018, 07:19:40 PM »
High-speed New trains are finally coming to the US
Quote
One train company has high hopes of bringing high-speed rail travel to America. Brightline Trains, which bills itself as "America's first new major private intercity passenger railroad in over a century," has just gotten a major vote of confidence from Richard Branson's Virgin Group.

The Virgin Group has taken a minority financial stake in Brightline, which will officially rebrand as Virgin Trains USA in January 2019.

Currently, the company has focused on Florida, running high-speed passenger trains between Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach.

In 2019, Virgin Trains USA hopes to launch routes connecting Orlando and Tampa, and then work on an ambitious project to link Los Angeles and Las Vegas via the same high-speed trains.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/amp/virgin-trains-usa/index.html

Quote
Nonsense. @GoBrightline actually has a lower top speed than @LIRR, at just 79 MPH.
Planned extensions will eventually push that up to 125MPH, which merely matches @Amtrak Northeast Regional.
Japan Germany China etc still far superior to us.
https://twitter.com/airlineflyer/status/1077711612952358912
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2019, 09:19:53 PM »
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System
The subway signal system has caused delays, service changes, and frustration. Gov. Cuomo is contacting "out-of-the-box" companies like Tesla for help.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/25796/new-york-governor-cuomo-called-tesla-for-help-with-nyc-subway-system
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rboyd

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2019, 10:37:57 PM »
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System

Why not just ask for help from one of the countries that has successful subway systems, so many to choose from in Europe, Japan, China, Russia (Moscow), and even Quebec (Montreal)? Mr. Musk seems to be the flavour of the times to fix anything that moves.

TerryM

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2019, 11:18:54 PM »
New York Governor Cuomo Called Tesla for Help With NYC Subway System

Why not just ask for help from one of the countries that has successful subway systems, so many to choose from in Europe, Japan, China, Russia (Moscow), and even Quebec (Montreal)? Mr. Musk seems to be the flavour of the times to fix anything that moves.


Some of the fine engineers from Toronto's Metro might even be cajoled into assisting their apparently flummoxed southern brethren, if they could somehow get past the language barrier. Brooklynese is rough on the ear of those conversant in English. 8)


Perhaps Mr. Cuomo wasn't familiar with Elons long and deep support for politicians from the Republican side of the aisle?
Terry

sidd

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2019, 12:18:47 AM »
Does anyone know what the "new European" approach is to fixing that tunnel ? (that's just one, there are more)
I know they got to rip out and replace all electric, but i am sure there is structural damage. I been on that line and the walls of the tunnels looks fairly sad to me. They werent anything to write home about even b4 Sandy, but since then i notice marked deterioration.

sidd

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2019, 03:45:41 PM »
Does anyone know what the "new European" approach is to fixing that tunnel ? (that's just one, there are more)
I know they got to rip out and replace all electric, but i am sure there is structural damage. I been on that line and the walls of the tunnels looks fairly sad to me. They werent anything to write home about even b4 Sandy, but since then i notice marked deterioration.

sidd

I’m sure they discussed Boring Company tunnels.  When the price of an option is tens of millions a mile, rather than the usual $billion+ (in the US), you have to at least consider it.

And who better to talk with about upgrading transportation electronics than a Silicon Valley EV-maker with the most advanced Over-The-Air-connected fleet in the world?
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2019, 06:19:57 PM »
Australia heat wave:

Train commuters are being warned to expect delays as fears grow the networks will buckle due to the severe heatwave battering the country.
https://www.dresstle.com/2019/01/16/fears-train-tracks-will-buckle-as-scorching-heatwave-strikes/

Sydney commuters will be confronted by mysterious signs while travelling on the train network this week.  “WOLO” is not an acronym, but it means trains are travelling slower due to extreme heat conditions.

Quote
“There’s very little we can do when you’ve got this degree of heat hitting steel tracks (but) at the same time we want to make sure we’ve got the staff on board as quickly as possible to be able to respond.”
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/why-youre-seeing-these-signs/news-story/50dfd19fbe1d9d24f3537917fa52ced4
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2019, 04:35:15 PM »
California Is Abandoning A Plan To Build A High-Speed Train From Los Angeles To San Francisco
February 12, 2019
Quote
LOS ANGELES — California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Tuesday that he is abandoning a plan to build a high-speed rail from San Francisco to Los Angeles, a project with an estimated cost that has ballooned to more than $77 billion and is years behind schedule.

"The current project, as planned, would cost too much and respectfully take too long," Newsom said during his first State of the State address. "There’s been too little oversight and not enough transparency."

The project was long championed by Newsom's predecessor Gov. Jerry Brown, but had lost support among voters, who approved $9.95 billion in bonds for the train in 2008, as the cost of the project skyrocketed.

Newsom said while he doesn't currently see a path forward to complete the entire project, he wants to finish ongoing construction in the Central Valley. ...
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/skbaer/california-bullet-train-plan-abandon-newsom-rail

Still a chance for a hyperloop, then? ;)
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rboyd

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2019, 06:38:21 AM »
High Speed Trains are an expensive waste of time when they don't even have a standard train network. Also, from what I have read it seems that the US is the most expensive place to build such infrastructure, even the Europeans are a lot cheaper.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2019, 08:28:05 PM »
Washington, D.C.'s Metro subway system

DC could subsidize Lyft and Uber rides when subway is closed at night
https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1121522_dc-could-subsidize-lyft-uber-rides-when-subway-is-closed-at-night
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2019, 09:02:41 PM »
Ride safety can be a consideration when choosing what form of transportation you will use.

Quote
Lyft (@lyft) 2/23/19, 9:46 PM
Reports of anti-LGBTQ violence in Portland, OR have left many in our community feeling unsafe. If you’re in Portland and need help getting home safely, DM @lyft and we’ll respond soon with a $15 ride credit.
https://twitter.com/lyft/status/1099500810843484161
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Trains, Trams, Subways and Buses
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2019, 08:39:58 PM »
Excercise and transportation.

Vala Afshar (@ValaAfshar)5/11/19, 4:06 PM
30 squats in Russia gets you a free train ticket
https://twitter.com/valaafshar/status/1127303895666102272
(30-second video at the link.)
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