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SteveMDFP

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #300 on: April 17, 2018, 05:48:27 PM »
Access denied on these two. Any ideas?

30.↵Iraq Central Organization for Statistics & Information Technology and Kurdistan Regional Statistics Office. Iraq Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey 2006, Final Report, 2007. https://mics-surveys-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/MICS3/Middle_East_and_North_Africa/Iraq/2006/Final/Iraq_2006_MICS_English.pdf.Google Scholar
31.↵Iraq Central Statistics Organization, Kurdistan Regional Statistics Office, Ministry of Health, United Nations Children’s Fund. Iraq Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey 2011, Final Report, 2012. https://mics-surveys-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/MICS4/Middle_East_and_North_Africa/Iraq/2011/Final/Iraq_2011_MICS_English.pdf.Google Scholar

Dead links are why someone invented the doi: standard.  Google finds the first one (apparently) at:
https://www.unicef.org/iraq/Iraq_2006_MICS_English.pdf

The second one (seemingly) at:
https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/MICS4_Iraq_PreliminaryReport_Eng.pdf

Steve
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Red

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #301 on: April 17, 2018, 05:51:38 PM »
Access denied on these two. Any ideas?

30.↵Iraq Central Organization for Statistics & Information Technology and Kurdistan Regional Statistics Office. Iraq Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey 2006, Final Report, 2007. https://mics-surveys-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/MICS3/Middle_East_and_North_Africa/Iraq/2006/Final/Iraq_2006_MICS_English.pdf.Google Scholar
31.↵Iraq Central Statistics Organization, Kurdistan Regional Statistics Office, Ministry of Health, United Nations Children’s Fund. Iraq Multiple Indicator Cluster Survey 2011, Final Report, 2012. https://mics-surveys-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/MICS4/Middle_East_and_North_Africa/Iraq/2011/Final/Iraq_2011_MICS_English.pdf.Google Scholar

Dead links are why someone invented the doi: standard.  Google finds the first one (apparently) at:
https://www.unicef.org/iraq/Iraq_2006_MICS_English.pdf

The second one (seemingly) at:
https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/MICS4_Iraq_PreliminaryReport_Eng.pdf

Steve
your friendly neighborhood research librarian

Thanks Steve!

Red

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #302 on: April 17, 2018, 06:19:16 PM »
Dead links are why someone invented the doi: standard.  Google finds the first one (apparently) at:
https://www.unicef.org/iraq/Iraq_2006_MICS_English.pdf

The second one (seemingly) at:
https://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/MICS4_Iraq_PreliminaryReport_Eng.pdf

Steve
your friendly neighborhood research librarian

Okay lots of reading there. However after a very quick perusal I see only one vague reference to '91. It's in the first report and you have to do the math to see it. '06 minus the 15.

 "At the national level, relatively little, if any improvement has taken place during the last 15 years, with under-five mortality at 49 per 1,000 during the 10-14 year period preceding the survey."

What is less clear is '91 even part of this?
What seems to be is that the more you look into this, and any political tripe for that matter, the clarity becomes at best, that of mud!


TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #303 on: April 17, 2018, 07:19:47 PM »
Gentleman! Gentlemen

It matters not whether any babies have ever died between the Tigris and the Euphrates since Enki was worshiped in Ur.

The question began with,"We have heard that ... "

She never says. "We have killed ... "

She then asks Albright if, "you know, is the price worth it?"

Albright wasn't asked if 50 kids died or 5,000,000.000 kids died.
She was asked if killing 500,000 kids, as she has heard, was worth it. Albright answered in the affirmative.

Google Albright Dead kids
or view my video clip from yesterday.


For those fixated on finding the actual number of dead kids I'd refer you to sidd's post above that links to a piece written by two authors who were actually there, on the ground, during that period. I believed one referred to the policies as "genocidal".

I'm frankly amazed that anyone anywhere wants to defend those policies, or the monster that claimed, on national TV, that "the price was worth it."
Terry

eg.
"We've have heard that we'll need to burn half a million babies to propel this rocket to the moon. You know, is the price worth it?"

"I think that there's a very hard choice, but, that's a price - We think the price is worth it."

It really doesn't matter if babies make excellent rocket fuel or not.
What matters is that whoever answered, believes that firing that rocket is more important than the lives of 500,000 kids.

bbr2314

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #304 on: April 17, 2018, 07:45:00 PM »
Does this excellent piece mean we should begin killing even more people in random countries? Probably. A great read!

http://www.volcanocafe.org/the-sperm-and-the-volcano/

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #305 on: April 17, 2018, 08:53:50 PM »
" Saddam was the one to blame, really.  "

Where have I heard this before ? O yes. Replace Saddam in that sentence with Ho Chi Minh. Or Allende. Or Mossadegh. Or Gaddaffi. Or Arbenz. Or Jagan. Or Sihanouk. Or Lumumba. Or Goulart. Or Bosch. Or Papandreou. Or Ortega. Or Noriega. Or Bishop. Or Aristide. Or ...

This is the same tired justification for intervention by the USA used by imperialists for a very long time.

From the link i posted:

"How much longer can democratically elected governments hope to get away with justifying policies that punish the Iraqi people for something they did not do, through economic sanctions that target them in the hope that those who survive will overthrow the regime?"

"The uncomfortable truth is that the west is holding the Iraqi people hostage, in order to secure Saddam Hussein's compliance to ever-shifting demands. "

The western powers didnt like saddam, after supporting him for a while. They tried to use the suffering of iraq peoples as an instrument of his removal. When that instrument proved faulty, they went in and removed him by force, resulting in more carnage in the Middle East.

This is Empire. This is the the ugly face of Empire. And as we see here, we have no shortage of apologists for Empire, no matter how many sins are committed in its name. For in the eyes of the servants of Empire, no sin is black enuf to condemn Empire.

sidd
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 10:48:22 PM by sidd »

Martin Gisser

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #306 on: April 17, 2018, 09:15:37 PM »
Just for fun: We haven't yet treated this evil empire: The Catholic church. How many AIDS deaths are they responsible for in Africa? 10 million? How many starved babies were the result of their disinformation war against the maths of the exponential function? 100 million?


TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #307 on: April 17, 2018, 09:31:47 PM »
Just for fun: We haven't yet treated this evil empire: The Catholic church. How many AIDS deaths are they responsible for in Africa? 10 million? How many starved babies were the result of their disinformation war against the maths of the exponential function? 100 million?


Go for it Big Guy
The only thing worse than the Catholics are the Protestants. The only thing worse than the Muslims are the Christians, and the only thing worse than the Believers are the Atheists.


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Neven

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #308 on: April 17, 2018, 09:32:14 PM »
Just for fun: We haven't yet treated this evil empire: The Catholic church. How many AIDS deaths are they responsible for in Africa? 10 million? How many starved babies were the result of their disinformation war against the maths of the exponential function? 100 million?

Do you want us to argue the same way you do when it comes to Iraqi children? In that case, there's no statistical significance. And if there happens to be one, it's the fault of those African governments. It was on PNN, and so it's a crystal clear fact. You atheism-ophile.

Oh no, wait, I don't have to do this. I don't have to join the polarizing game and defend my assholes against theirs.

Martin, I agree with you 100%. All organized religion is effed up. But between the Catholic Church and the US Empire since World War II, I wouldn't know who's worse. Very tight game.
The enemy is within
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ivica

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #309 on: April 17, 2018, 10:05:13 PM »
This fits into other thread(s) but well, WikiLeaks @wikileaks 51m51 minutes ago: Full video: BBC interview with Russian Foreign Minister Lavrov on #Syria, US, UK



sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #310 on: April 17, 2018, 10:35:15 PM »
Please feel free to start a thread discussing the Catholic Church and its misdeeds, and discuss it there.

Meanwhile the Pentagon is using slave labor. No surprise, but in this case the slaves are US citizens ...

"The company could soar even if it loses in court. ManTech appears to be poised to benefit from the conflict in Syria; Zacks, an investment research firm, listed it as the number one stock to buy in response to the chemical weapons attack on the rebel-held city of Douma, Syria. "

"And the company is well-respected within the Beltway; "

Of course it is.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/lawsuit-pentagon-contractor-treated-workers-like-slaves

sidd


TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #311 on: April 17, 2018, 11:10:55 PM »

Thanks sidd
From the above:

"they recruited far and wide—including fast food workers, participants in a program for high school dropouts, and people with little to no experience as mechanics."

They then shipped these kids half way around the world on tourist visas, held their passports, and required them to work in an extremely toxic environment with no protective gear. They'd already signed on to paying thousands if they dared to quit within 2 years.

A recommended growth stock for your retirement account.
Terry
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 12:21:39 AM by TerryM »

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #312 on: April 18, 2018, 12:33:22 AM »
Syria Campaign, White Helmets, funders, and associated headchoppers they hang with:

"Culled from the Facebook page of Mahmoud Raslan, the activist from the American-operated Aleppo Media Center who took the initial video of Omran, it showed Raslan posing for a triumphant selfie with a group of rebel fighters. The armed men hailed from the Nour Al-Din Al-Zenki faction. At least two of the commanders who appeared in the photo with Raslan had recently beheaded a boy they captured, referring to him in video footage as “child” while they taunted and abused him."

Nice pals they got. Funding from the usual suspects, USAID, exiled syrian billionaires, Avaaz, Purpose.

https://www.alternet.org/world/inside-shadowy-pr-firm-thats-driving-western-opinion-towards-regime-change-syria

"Far from the gaze of most Western media consumers, videos and photographs have surfaced on news sites and social media accounts sympathetic to the Syrian government showing White Helmet members boasting about discarding the body parts of Syrian troops in dumpsters, posing triumphantly on the corpses of Syrian soldiers, joining fighters accosting an alleged political opponent, waving the flag of Al Qaeda affiliate Jabhat Al-Nusra alongside jihadist fighters, and carrying weapons.

While it would seem unfair to tar an entire group with the actions of a few scofflaws, more than a few of the images depict events that are disturbingly real. One particularly jarring video (18+) filmed in Northern Aleppo shows two members of the White Helmets participating in an execution, waiting just off camera while a member of Al-Nusra shoots a man dressed in street clothes in the head after reading out a death sentence."

"A year later, Agha was exposed by pro-government social media activists for filming a grotesque video depicting extremist Syrian rebels torturing two captured soldiers they later executed."

https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/how-white-helmets-became-international-heroes-while-pushing-us-military

Just emergency burials, honest.

" ... White Helmets rushing into the center of a crowd, mere seconds after an alleged criminal was shot in the head, and removing the body on a stretcher. A member of the White Helmets can be seen celebrating along with the crowd of onlookers."

" ... two members of Syria Civil Defense waiting just off camera while a member of Syria's al-Qaeda affiliate, Jabhat al-Nusra, reads out a death sentence, before shooting a man dressed in street clothes in the head. Seconds later, the White Helmets team tosses the man's body onto a stretcher and scrambles away."

https://www.alternet.org/grayzone-project/white-helmets-assisting-public-executions-rebel-held-syria

My fucking tax dollars at work, going straight to those headchoppers. In syria and in many,many other lands.

sidd

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #313 on: April 18, 2018, 01:12:05 AM »
Bellum sine fine:

"President Donald Trump would get broad authority to use force against terrorist groups, with no expiration date, under a new bipartisan proposal unveiled in the U.S. Senate on Monday.

The proposed bill would cover all terrorist groups the U.S. is currently fighting, and it would not restrict the president from taking immediate action against enemies in other global hot spots."

"Sens. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., and Tim Kaine, D-Va., was released Monday. Its co-sponsors include Sens. Chris Coons, D-Del.; Jeff Flake, R-Ariz.; Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and Todd Young, R-Ind."

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2018/04/17/us-senators-introduce-new-check-on-presidential-war-powers/

sidd


TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #314 on: April 18, 2018, 01:27:19 AM »
Syria Campaign, White Helmets, funders, and associated headchoppers they hang with:

Nice pals they got. Funding from the usual suspects, USAID, exiled syrian billionaires, Avaaz, Purpose.

My fucking tax dollars at work, going straight to those headchoppers. In syria and in many,many other lands.

sidd
Don't feel too bad, Avaaz has been pestering me for dollars for years, and I've never even encouraged them by acknowledging their mail.
Terry

TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #315 on: April 18, 2018, 01:31:36 AM »
Bellum sine fine:

"President Donald Trump would get broad authority to use force against terrorist groups, with no expiration date, under a new bipartisan proposal unveiled in the U.S. Senate on Monday.

The proposed bill would cover all terrorist groups the U.S. is currently fighting, and it would not restrict the president from taking immediate action against enemies in other global hot spots."

"Sens. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., and Tim Kaine, D-Va., was released Monday. Its co-sponsors include Sens. Chris Coons, D-Del.; Jeff Flake, R-Ariz.; Bill Nelson, D-Fla., and Todd Young, R-Ind."

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2018/04/17/us-senators-introduce-new-check-on-presidential-war-powers/

sidd


Can we still call them Chicken Hawks?
Terry

Red

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #316 on: April 18, 2018, 09:58:35 PM »
What's the opinion of the folks here about this:

Duwali airbase - 4 missiles fired, 4 shot down

Dumayr airbase - 12 missiles fired, 12 shot down

Baley airbase - 18 missiles fired, 18 shot down

Shayrat airbase - 12 missiles fired, 12 shot down

Marj Ruhayyil airbase - 18 missiles fired, 18 shot down

Damascus international airport - 4 missiles fired, 4 shot down https://www.sott.net/article/382908-About-Those-Nice-New-Smart-Missiles-And-The-Chemical-Weapons-Sites-in-Syria

sedziobs

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #317 on: April 18, 2018, 10:26:07 PM »
Quote
Joe Quinn is the co-author of 9/11: The Ultimate Truth (with Laura Knight-Jadczyk, 2006) and Manufactured Terror: The Boston Marathon Bombings, Sandy Hook, Aurora Shooting and Other False Flag Terror Attacks (with Niall Bradley, 2014)
I don't have an opinion on the content of the article, but the author's resume doesn't give me much confidence.

DrTskoul

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #318 on: April 18, 2018, 10:48:02 PM »
Quote
Joe Quinn is the co-author of 9/11: The Ultimate Truth (with Laura Knight-Jadczyk, 2006) and Manufactured Terror: The Boston Marathon Bombings, Sandy Hook, Aurora Shooting and Other False Flag Terror Attacks (with Niall Bradley, 2014)
I don't have an opinion on the content of the article, but the author's resume doesn't give me much confidence.

To say the least!!! Sandy Hook a false flag!! In the same company as Alex Jones...

Hefaistos

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #319 on: April 23, 2018, 09:36:34 AM »
German public TV ZDF says the Douma attack was staged by the jihadists.
"The scene of the attack, which allegedly took place on April 7, was in fact the “command post” of a local Islamist group, the reporter said, citing the witnesses he was able to speak to at the refugee camp.... according to the locals, the militants brought canisters containing chlorine to the area and “actually waited for the Syrian Air Force to bomb the place, which was of particular interest for them.”

As the Syrian forces eventually struck the place, which was apparently a high-priority military target, the chlorine canisters exploded. The locals also told Gack that it is not the first such provocation in Douma that was staged by the militants.

According to other witness accounts, the militants deliberately exposed people to chemical agents during what they called “training exercises” then filmed it and later presented as an “evidence” of the alleged chemical attack in Douma.
The reporter then said he could not verify the people’s statements and cannot say if they are all true but called them quite “convincing” "
Interview in German:
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute-19-uhr/videos/zitat-sgs-gack-syrien-100.html
Article:
https://www.rt.com/news/424832-douma-attack-german-media/

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #320 on: April 23, 2018, 09:53:05 AM »
As the Syrian forces eventually struck the place, which was apparently a high-priority military target, the chlorine canisters exploded. The locals also told Gack that it is not the first such provocation in Douma that was staged by the militants.

Mmm. The cylinder that was recorded on top of the house where at least 34 people died does NOT show any sign of "explosion" :



It looks like it was dropped from a helicopter.
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Hefaistos

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #321 on: April 23, 2018, 09:55:14 AM »
Rob, 'exploded' might be a word lost in translation. Somehow the gas got out of the canisters, unclear how from the photos. Maybe the jihadists just opened the valve?

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #322 on: April 23, 2018, 10:00:07 AM »
Rob, 'exploded' might be a word lost in translation. Somehow the gas got out of the canisters, unclear how from the photos. Maybe the jihadists just opened the valve?

"Explodiert" was pretty clear in the video.
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Hefaistos

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #323 on: April 23, 2018, 03:48:14 PM »
I meant lost in translation in a wider sense, talking to the locals in a refugee camp, not from the German reporter's talk.

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #324 on: April 24, 2018, 06:06:00 AM »
I meant lost in translation in a wider sense, talking to the locals in a refugee camp, not from the German reporter's talk.

Let's see if we can answer the first question of good reporting : WHERE is that refugee camp.
And even more importantly, WHO controls it.

The reporter says that he just came from "Hara Galla" or something like that. But I cannot find any "Hara Galla" in Syria. He also says it is 5 km "from here", but he doesn't say where he is.

Crappy start of a report if you ask me.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #325 on: April 24, 2018, 09:15:33 AM »
Nothing else about this report makes sense. For example :

German public TV ZDF says the Douma attack was staged by the jihadists.
"The scene of the attack, which allegedly took place on April 7, was in fact the “command post” of a local Islamist group, the reporter said, citing the witnesses he was able to speak to at the refugee camp.... according to the locals, the militants brought canisters containing chlorine to the area and “actually waited for the Syrian Air Force to bomb the place, which was of particular interest for them.”

As the Syrian forces eventually struck the place, which was apparently a high-priority military target, the chlorine canisters exploded. The locals also told Gack that it is not the first such provocation in Douma that was staged by the militants.

The evidence we have is a cylinder on top of a house, and a video from inside the house of some 34 people killed. Mostly women and children. That doesn't sound AT ALL like this report of "The scene of the attack, which allegedly took place on April 7, was in fact the “command post” " and a "high-priority military target,".

Also the claim that the militants "actually waited for the Syrian Air Force to bomb the place," which then "the chlorine canisters exploded" does not match ANY of the evidence we have publicly available.

It looks like that cylinder (which I showed above) was simply dropped from a helicopter.

Quote
According to other witness accounts, the militants deliberately exposed people to chemical agents during what they called “training exercises” then filmed it and later presented as an “evidence” of the alleged chemical attack in Douma.
The reporter then said he could not verify the people’s statements and cannot say if they are all true but called them quite “convincing” "

This seems to be an entirely different theory.

Can't these people make up their mind ? Or what is more likely : Can't the Syrian government military please make up their mind if this was a hoax or a false flag and exactly how it happened ?
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:21:53 AM by Rob Dekker »
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sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #326 on: April 26, 2018, 07:59:06 AM »
Now this is an interesting flip.

One lackey of Empire threatening another lackey of Empire with loss of Empire support if the second lackey refuses to pay for Empire conquest in the neighbourhood.

Whassa matter Saud, you guys runnin' outta money ? Can't really pay for some more Syria action ? Yemen massacres running a lil over budget ?

--
"Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir warned its rival the Qatar government that it faced its imminent demise unless it funded a US military presence in Syria."

""Qatar has to pay for US military presence in Syria and send its military forces there, before the US President [Donald Trump] cancels US protection of Qatar," he said in a statement. "

"Jubeir indicated that the "protection" he was alluding to was "the presence of a US military base on its territory" ... Qatar hosts al-Udeid, one of the largest US' airbases in the world"
--

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2018/4/24/qatar-should-pay-for-us-troops-in-syria-riyadh


I remember the weaselly Adel al-Jubeir while he was defending Bandar and Saud post 2001 in DC. He clawed his way up to the Foreign Minister spot, and is no doubt busy fellating Salman evry chance he gets. He is fairly stupid, so watch for that surprised look when Salman gets rid of him

sidd

ivica

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #327 on: April 26, 2018, 11:00:18 AM »
By Nicolas J S Davies Special to Consortium News:
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/04/25/how-many-millions-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars-part-3-libya-syria-somalia-and-yemen/

"In the first two parts of this report, I have estimated that about 2.4 million people have been killed as a result of the U.S. invasion of Iraq, while about 1.2 million have been killed in Afghanistan and Pakistan as a result of the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.  In the third and final part of this report, I will estimate how many people have been killed as a result of U.S. military and CIA interventions in Libya, Syria, Somalia and Yemen."

...

"After 16 years of war, about 6 million violent deaths, 6 countries utterly destroyed and many more destabilized[]/b,"...   

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #328 on: April 28, 2018, 07:51:27 AM »
"In the first two parts of this report, I have estimated that about 2.4 million people have been killed as a result of the U.S. invasion of Iraq,

The author (Nicolas J.S. Davies) goes through some serious number juggling to get to this number. Here seems to be the main argument of his estimate :
https://consortiumnews.com/2018/03/22/how-many-millions-of-people-have-been-killed-in-americas-post-9-11-wars-part-one-iraq/
It seems mostly based on an extrapolation of the already inflated numbers of the 2006 Lancet study, while other studies arrived at much, much lower numbers (factor of 14 lower).

Also, and this is the biggest problem : I don't see any separation of military versus civilian casualties in his numbers.

Iraq was bad as it is. No need to inflate numbers and lump military losses in with civilians.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 08:33:12 AM by Rob Dekker »
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SteveMDFP

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #329 on: April 30, 2018, 02:47:35 AM »
Disturbing and worrisome article just posted:

WHO'S BOMBING SYRIA? VIDEO SHOWS NEW STRIKES AND MASSIVE EXPLOSION AS WORLD POWERS CLASH
http://www.newsweek.com/who-bombing-syria-new-strikes-hit-military-positions-world-powers-clash-905377
[all caps in the original--why is Newsweek shouting?]
"Syrian military positions in the province of Hama and Aleppo were targeted Sunday by a series of strikes that caused an explosion reportedly strong enough to trigger an earthquake observed by neighboring countries...
Wikileaks shared a video showing a massive explosion rocking the city. The whistleblower organization said earthquake monitors in Lebanon and Turkey recorded a blow strong enough to register on the Richter scale...."

It seems the strike was by Israel (no official confirmation from them).  So technically, arguably off-topic for this thread.  But Israel and US policy are essentially joined at the hip, now more than ever, thanks to Trump.

Russia threatens now to bolster Syria's defenses.  Iran threatens war. 

The US needs to leave the area.  I'm not optimistic that this will happen.  I have a bad feeling about all of this.

Steve

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #330 on: April 30, 2018, 03:01:50 AM »
When "civilization" starts to fall apart due to abrupt climate change, WW3 will be instituted.

We wont even have a chance to say "I told you so" to the deniers.

As for Israel, the only country that you can not criticize, it is the Illumanati's permanently stationed massive Aircraft Carrier.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

TerryM

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #331 on: April 30, 2018, 05:17:16 AM »
Disturbing and worrisome article just posted:

WHO'S BOMBING SYRIA? VIDEO SHOWS NEW STRIKES AND MASSIVE EXPLOSION AS WORLD POWERS CLASH
http://www.newsweek.com/who-bombing-syria-new-strikes-hit-military-positions-world-powers-clash-905377
[all caps in the original--why is Newsweek shouting?]
"Syrian military positions in the province of Hama and Aleppo were targeted Sunday by a series of strikes that caused an explosion reportedly strong enough to trigger an earthquake observed by neighboring countries...
Wikileaks shared a video showing a massive explosion rocking the city. The whistleblower organization said earthquake monitors in Lebanon and Turkey recorded a blow strong enough to register on the Richter scale...."

It seems the strike was by Israel (no official confirmation from them).  So technically, arguably off-topic for this thread.  But Israel and US policy are essentially joined at the hip, now more than ever, thanks to Trump.

Russia threatens now to bolster Syria's defenses.  Iran threatens war. 

The US needs to leave the area. I'm not optimistic that this will happen.  I have a bad feeling about all of this.

Steve
Thanks for the heads up.


I don't recall any mention of the richter scale registering a quake when Trump dumped the "largest non-nuclear bomb ever used in anger".
Could our dear allies have done something not seen since the closing days of WWII?


I shudder at the thought.
Terry


edit-
Russian sources are so far considering this to have been a strike that hit a massive arms storage area. They do seem to be assuming that Israel was responsible.
Much better than a tactical nuke strike, but ...
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 05:39:49 AM by TerryM »

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #332 on: April 30, 2018, 07:44:04 AM »
Wikileaks shared a video showing a massive explosion rocking the city. The whistleblower organization said earthquake monitors in Lebanon and Turkey recorded a blow strong enough to register on the Richter scale...."

It seems the strike was by Israel (no official confirmation from them). 

Here is that footage :

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/990732987972182016

Counting by the secondary explosions, it looks like these guys hit an ammunition depot of some sort.

[edit]
Quote
The US needs to leave the area.  I'm not optimistic that this will happen.  I have a bad feeling about all of this.

The only area in Syria that is peaceful right now is the east, where US/coalition forces with the Kurds have forced ISIS out. If the US leaves now, that area will also return to a conflict zone.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 08:01:03 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #333 on: April 30, 2018, 09:32:37 AM »
I don't recall any mention of the richter scale registering a quake when Trump dumped the "largest non-nuclear bomb ever used in anger".
Could our dear allies have done something not seen since the closing days of WWII?

I shudder at the thought.

This was a 2.0 on the Richter scale. Similar to a heavy truck driving down your road. A MOAB would have registered 3.7.
Since Richter scale is logarithmic, this was less than 1/10th the impact.
Just a big bang on what seems to have been an Iranian or Syrian weapons depot.
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Niall Dollard

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #334 on: April 30, 2018, 09:36:32 AM »
The only area in Syria that is peaceful right now is the east,

You hardly expect the Israeli/US/F/UK agressors to be bombing their own controlled area ?

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #335 on: April 30, 2018, 10:12:31 AM »
It's kind of interesting to see what Iran would do after this strike.
After all, they threatened this :

Quote
The second-in-command of Iran's most elite force has warned Israel against moves that further threaten Tehran's interest in the region, especially Syria, where the West and its allies have targeted Syrian government positions.

Brigadier General Hossein Salami, commander-in-chief of the Revolutionary Guards, said Friday that a war between Iran and Israel would lead to the latter's total annihilation. Israeli jets have targeted the positions of Iran and its allies in Syria, but Salami said his country was now ready to retaliate at any moment.

"Our fingers are on the trigger and the missiles are ready to launch, at any moment that the enemy wants to start something against us, we will launch,"

http://www.newsweek.com/iran-tells-israel-fingers-are-trigger-missiles-ready-launch-syria-tensions-895502

Looks like Israel just called their bluff.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #336 on: April 30, 2018, 10:37:59 AM »
The only area in Syria that is peaceful right now is the east,

You hardly expect the Israeli/US/F/UK agressors to be bombing their own controlled area ?

Here are two truths :
- The east of Syria is peaceful because of these Israeli/US/F/UK "aggressors".
- The west is a mess, because Assad does not want to step down
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 10:53:45 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #337 on: April 30, 2018, 04:02:10 PM »
The only area in Syria that is peaceful right now is the east,

You hardly expect the Israeli/US/F/UK agressors to be bombing their own controlled area ?

Here are two truths :
- The east of Syria is peaceful because of these Israeli/US/F/UK "aggressors".
- The west is a mess, because Assad does not want to step down

The kurds are well able to police the areas they control.
They won't be up to the task of fending off combined attacks from Syria, Russia, and Turkey (and maybe Iran).  The US could stay there to protect them -- forever? 
Russia has already asserted itself in trying to get US forces to withdraw.  The Kurds have been solid allies, but they're not worth starting WW-III over.

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #338 on: May 01, 2018, 01:30:57 AM »

Rob Dekker

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #339 on: May 01, 2018, 09:43:19 AM »
Here are two truths :
- The east of Syria is peaceful because of these Israeli/US/F/UK "aggressors".
- The west is a mess, because Assad does not want to step down

The kurds are well able to police the areas they control.
They won't be up to the task of fending off combined attacks from Syria, Russia, and Turkey (and maybe Iran).  The US could stay there to protect them -- forever? 

Not until a political resolution is reached about the fate of the Kurds.

Quote
Russia has already asserted itself in trying to get US forces to withdraw.  The Kurds have been solid allies, but they're not worth starting WW-III over.

This talk about WW-III seems a bit overblown.
The Russians and US forces have a hot line so as not to get in each other's space.
Remember that Wagner intrusion back in February ?
Successfully repelled by US forces after consulting with the Russians.

But Syrian government forces still occasionally intrude on Kurdish space. Even yesterday :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/syrian-troops-capture-4-villages-east-of-euphrates-river/2018/04/29/a0325c9c-4ba9-11e8-85c1-9326c4511033_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.55c0cd45e2fd

If the US would leave now, we will see many more such attempts by Syrian government (and Russian - Wagner) forces to re-take Kurdish-held territory in the East, expanding the conflict.

There needs to be a political resolution about the East first before US can leave.
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sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #340 on: May 01, 2018, 10:26:45 PM »

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #341 on: May 01, 2018, 10:27:29 PM »

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #342 on: May 01, 2018, 10:53:55 PM »
Scott Ritter is arguably the most experienced American weapons inspector and in this interview with Dennis J. Bernstein he levels a frank assessment of U.S. government assertions about chemical weapons use in Douma, Syria.

https://consortiumnews.com/2018/04/27/weapons-inspector-refutes-u-s-syria-chemical-claims/

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #343 on: May 01, 2018, 11:15:43 PM »
This would be funny if it weren't so sad. We wanna discourage Russia trade, but not arms trade. After all the more arms that are sold, the more demand for arms from the good old USA. Truly a gift that keeps on giving.

https://news.antiwar.com/2018/04/30/mattis-wants-sanctions-waivers-for-allies-who-buy-russian-arms/

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #344 on: May 02, 2018, 10:50:36 PM »
A thoughtful comparison of present US wars in the light of Vietnam:

"To put it bluntly, the experience of the last nearly 17 years makes "full spectrum dominance" sound like a delusional fantasy. "

" ...  the first goal of intelligence is to "know your enemy." It certainly would have been helpful in the last half-century's wars if American commanders had known their opponents better. In Vietnam and since, though, by far the most damaging intelligence failure wasn’t not knowing our enemies well enough, but not knowing our friends. "

" I was convinced that corruption was the single biggest reason the Saigon government had lost the war. "

"But even from afar, it's hard not to hear history rhyming, if not repeating itself."

" In all of them, corruption and poor governance in general were rife and would prove crippling obstacles to achieving U.S. objectives. And in all of them, Americans were almost completely ineffective in doing anything about either problem."

"After describing one of many ways the Taliban were able to tap into American funds, Wissing noted that all the money they got their hands on was spent for weapons, motorcycles, and mobile phones; their religious scruples stopped them from keeping any of it for themselves. Mordantly but aptly, Wissing added, "at least the Taliban made honest use of the U.S. taxpayers' cash.""

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176417/tomgram%3A_arnold_isaacs%2C_in_present_american_wars%2C_repeating_past_mistakes/

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #345 on: May 02, 2018, 10:59:09 PM »
A covert soldier of empire speaks out:

"But over the years he came to believe that counterterrorism was creating more problems than it solved, fuelling illiberalism and hysteria, destroying communities overseas, and diverting attention and resources from essential problems in the United States"

"“We have to stop treating people like we’re in Fallujah,” Patrick Skinner said. “Just look what happened in Fallujah.”

"Two months into the U.S. invasion, Donald Rumsfeld, the Defense Secretary, revealed in a memo that he didn’t know what languages were spoken in Afghanistan."

 “They were telling us, ‘Too many people have died here for us just to leave,’ ” Skinner recalled. “ ‘But we don’t want to give the Taliban a timeline.’ So, forever? Is that what you’re going for? They fucking live there, dude.”

"Skinner wrote an op-ed for Time, describing torture as an “indefensible tactic” that is designed “to produce false confessions for propaganda purposes.” "

"“I used to spend more money on meals and entertainment for a couple of sources in Amman, each year, than the Savannah Police Department has to spend on cars,” Skinner said."

"Norma Jeane carried a wooden cane and a black handbag, in which she kept her Bible, an empty pickle jar that she used as a wallet, a cracked cell phone with no battery, a magnifying glass, and an old bottle for Seroquel, an antipsychotic medication used to treat bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. She said that the pills made her sleepy, so she’d stopped taking them long ago. She also has diabetes, but she couldn’t afford health insurance or treatment. “I haven’t taken insulin in three years,” she said."

"Then she took off her Santa hat and started messing up her hair, pulling strands so that they’d stick out in all directions. “This way, everybody gonna think I’m crazy,” she said. “No one gonna come up to me, this way. No one gonna hurt me.”"

"Skinner explained that part of his motivation in helping Norma Jeane was to prevent an emergency call, three hours later, of a homeless woman freezing to death. “Think of all the shit that went wrong in this country for Norma Jeane to be sitting in the car with us,”  "

"Twenty-seven hours after we left Norma Jeane at the Waffle House, another cop radioed in an E.M.S. call. A fifty-nine-year-old homeless woman, dressed in a Santa hat and a leopard-print jacket, was freezing to death."

read the whole thing:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/05/07/the-spy-who-came-home

sidd

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #346 on: May 03, 2018, 06:59:34 AM »
If you believe the USA wasn't involved in this strike, i got a bridge to sell you.

" ... assassination of a top Houthi leader by a Saudi coalition airstrike ..."

Now that makes more intense war more certain.

https://www.antiwar.com/blog/2018/05/02/a-saudi-assassination-and-the-war-on-yemen/

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #347 on: May 03, 2018, 07:48:32 AM »
Winning!

" ... the Taliban, control more districts now than during any other time since it began keeping track  ..."

"Kabul is our main effort. To harden Kabul, to protect the people of Kabul ..."

"On Monday, a bombing in Kabul, which ISIS took responsibility for, killed at least 25 people ..."

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2018/05/02/mattis-downplays-u-s-losses-afghanistan-trump-strategy-set-taliban-back-militarily/

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #348 on: May 03, 2018, 10:25:19 AM »
The IAEA says:

"The U.N. nuclear agency says it believes that Iran had a “coordinated” nuclear weapons program in place before 2003, but found “no credible indications” of such work after 2009.
The agency issued its assessment on Tuesday, a day after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu released what he said was a “half ton” of seized documents proving that Iran has lied about its nuclear intentions."

Who ya goin'a  believe?
Terry

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Re: US intervention in foreign lands
« Reply #349 on: May 04, 2018, 08:58:13 AM »
Holy. Shit. He's going there. Watch the warmongers scream. By their screams shall ye know them.

"President Trump has asked the Pentagon to look at options for reducing the number of U.S. troops stationed in South Korea ..."

http://thehill.com/policy/defense/386175-trump-asks-pentagon-to-look-at-options-for-withdrawing-troops-from-south-korea

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