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bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1600 on: June 24, 2018, 06:27:38 PM »
Any time there are stormy conditions with rising air over the Arctic regions that are ice covered or covered with a water ice mixture, temp -1.8 C, there's a chance of snow. Although the European side of the Arctic ocean will be very warm over coming days it will be cold on the north American side.

Sinking air over the N pole and Arctic ocean in June and July is optimal for melting. This June the European side is very warm, but the American side is an ice box.

Note the GFS forecast of snow in 36 hours on the American side of the Arctic ocean. I know the GFS has its problems but it can handle the 36 hour forecast.

Yes, this is a very interesting melt season. Many things are happening that will affect the Arctic for the next few years including the development of pre-El Niño conditions. However, June's weather is good for retaining ice in about half of the Arctic for this summer's melt season.
?!?!

June's weather has been worse than 2012. The only area where it hasn't has been the CAB where it has still been similar. It has been WORSE across areas that will melt out sooner and this will yield runaway albedo feedbacks from open ocean as we head deeper into summer and the CAB becomes more vulnerable due to ALL peripheral ice melting out.

I truly do not see how you and Friv can assert than June has been "protective" when satellite / etc shows that the only "protection" has been afforded to HB / Kara. In fact, insolation has already been loading into Laptev / high NATL / Beaufort, and the Pacific front on Chukchi is already extremely warm, with lots of salty Pac water about to make an appearance.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1601 on: June 24, 2018, 07:36:02 PM »
Comparing the Pacific and ATL, both are much more like freight trains of impending heat and salinity this year. The early collapse / non-formation of ice in Bering has allowed a plume of unimpeded Pac water to form, and it is about to puncture deep into Chukchi.

The NATL has also gotten saltier N of the UK / NW of Scandinavia. The far NW NATL next to Canada has gotten fresher / colder. And the plume of heat caught in the middle is now making its way north.

I think conditions as they stand today are very bad. By July the High Arctic's frailty will be much more obvious. But by September it will be worse than 2012, as the oceanic happenings re: salinity and insolation prolong the melt season beyond any previous year.




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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1602 on: June 24, 2018, 07:40:38 PM »


Looks like fresh snow fall over the Atlatic side near the pole.

But there is either fresh snow or a frozen over top of the ice sheet.

Something Is gonna have to happen for any chance of a no benign melt season. And soon
Are you sure? Gfs says its above freezing up to 850hPa and well above right out to the pole. And this extending right to the coast 90 west and east. Except for a little spot above Greenland that is. But with ice salinity what it is these days, -0.3 to -0.5 is about as warm as you can get on its surface, cause thats what temperature it melts at. When I look at incoming cloud water, total precipitable water, three hour precipitation accumulation and relative humidity at all levels,  I see a broad stream of warm low level moisture coming in and condensing on the ice, or directly above it as warm fog. A huge energy input given the area and windspeed. The only place that might have a dusting is that spot just above elsemere. Peaking at 1.6 mm 3hpa. Because that's the only place over the ice there is humidity, cloud, and low temperature from this system. And only at high altitudes.  But SMOS from yesterday and surface temps all point to soggy waterlogged ice that would melt any snowflakes in less than a second. Plenty of salt wicking and diffusing to surface. Very likely all of it is suffering surface melt even if surface temps were below -1. And bottom melt too induced by the energy input of the water condensing, and solar irradiance directly to the ice and efficiently transferred by the rolling fog. Chances are you are confusing a slushy field compacted by the winds for a dusting of snow or frozen ice sheet.
How about you get out your calculator and estimate the volume of ice melted by that water vapour input Friv? Its pretty easy. Approximately ten times the mass of the incoming TPW-TCW times approximate mean windspeed in metres per second times width of the flow in metres. Times 3600 times event duration in hours. Trust it more if you do the calc yourself, I assure you.
Betcha SMOS tomorrow will show the whole area soggier than a boiled biscuit. 8)
Click to animate the naughty ezgif

Do temperatures above freezing at 1.5 km mean you cannot get snow? And can we be certain that temperatures were not below freezing when this possible snow fell?

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1603 on: June 24, 2018, 07:49:13 PM »
The situation has actually been quite similar to 2012 this June, IMO. The differences are that we are more "advanced" in accumulating oceanic heat so the Hadley Cells have advanced farther north, while the albedo impacts have also created new negative anomalies as ^ has occurred prior to full continental melt-out.

You can clearly see that heat has been pouring into the Arctic just as it did in 2012, only this year, due to what has happened re: Kara, it has been forced even farther N, entering over the Laptev. The anomalies have been scorching over half of the Arctic.

While the rest of the CAB has been about normal, that is irrelevant to what is going to happen next. If you roll 2012's monthly anomalies forward, the areas that accumulated the most heat early on in the season featured the brightest reds come September and October.

If we can imagine the same happening this year (and I don't see why we shouldn't at this point), we can magnify the June pattern into July, August, and September. This results in a near-perfect "sequential" melt out of the weakest ice in terms of accumulating albedo feedbacks into autumn, so the "order of operations" for reaching the CAB and melting it out by late July or August is much more efficient this year than in any year prior, IMO.

Oh, and the PAC is far worse than 2012, as is the high ATL, in terms of SSTs / available & impending heat through autumn.

FishOutofWater

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1604 on: June 24, 2018, 07:53:54 PM »
I think that there's plenty of melting of thickness going on now but conditions in the Arctic are too stormy in June for this to be a record melt year, in my opinion. The influxes of warm water and salinity from both the Pacific and the Atlantic are important, but we may not see the impacts on ice extent until the year after this developing El Niño. That could be next summer or the next year after that. All of that snow that piled up thanks to the SSW kept the spring cooler than it might have been. The area and extent data aren't perfect but they don't lie, either.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1605 on: June 24, 2018, 07:57:19 PM »
I think that there's plenty of melting of thickness going on now but conditions in the Arctic are too stormy in June for this to be a record melt year, in my opinion. The influxes of warm water and salinity from both the Pacific and the Atlantic are important, but we may not see the impacts on ice extent until the year after this developing El Niño. That could be next summer or the next year after that. All of that snow that piled up thanks to the SSW kept the spring cooler than it might have been. The area and extent data aren't perfect but they don't lie, either.
They don't lie but they do include Hudson and Kara, so...

Another consideration is that the +anomalies this spring over Siberia will result in massive plumes of smoke come July and August, farther north than 2012's plumes. This will probably result in a knock-out blow to the CAB. There is going to be a tremendous amount of burning.

miki

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1606 on: June 24, 2018, 08:17:12 PM »
Another consideration is that the +anomalies this spring over Siberia will result in massive plumes of smoke come July and August, farther north than 2012's plumes. This will probably result in a knock-out blow to the CAB. There is going to be a tremendous amount of burning.

Open OT:
They were quite extensive in 2012, indeed. The fires in Siberia.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=78305

Close OT.

Lord M Vader

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1607 on: June 24, 2018, 08:50:05 PM »
Latest Euro 12z op run has a 975-980 hpa bomb cyclone in 8-9 days. What's the lowest July sea level pressure that we know about?

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1608 on: June 24, 2018, 08:55:55 PM »
Latest Euro 12z op run has a 975-980 hpa bomb cyclone in 8-9 days. What's the lowest July sea level pressure that we know about?
I do not know that answer but I was about to comment on ^ as well. If seasonal trends hold, it'll end up ~960 by verification (or disappear completely). I would hedge on verification though as it has been about a month since the first GAC.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1609 on: June 24, 2018, 09:47:18 PM »
Bleak!



The loss of the snowpack over Siberia has put the Siberian Seas / peripheral CAB front and center for melt (with the exception of the ESS, which is thicker and adjacent to some of the last snow). We may see complete separation / cleavage of the ESS ice from the CAB by 7/15.

This is another key consideration for 2018. Normally the ESS detaches with the sheet's retreat and forms a "head" for melt of thicker ice that acts as a barrier against intruding Pac / Atl water. This year, that will be completely lacking, allowing the Pacific / Atlantic water to penetrate much deeper into the high Arctic.

The Beaufort should fall apart completely in another 10 days or so as all the newest ice melts out entirely, and it will present as a bunch of floes. At the same time the actual melt fronts in the Chukchi will advance substantially, while the NATL fronts will merge into a singular entity from Laptev to Greenland.

This is happening because 2018 saw horrible volume gains which were belied by +++snowfall anomalies atop the ice (IMO). So now that the snowfall is mostly gone, the new ice is all going to melt out very rapidly, as it is roughly the same thickness. To this point that has given an appearance of consistency but - lol - that is not going to last.

Finally, the above HYCOM images appear to show the thick CAA-adjacent CAB ice being drawn into the CAA. This has happened in previous years and I suspect is is partially due to the impending end of ice-land tension across the ATL front Without anything to "grip" the front, the thickest ice will drain into the CAA over the next 30-60 days. Wonder when Nares finally breaks / perhaps the fact it hasn't broken is also a reason ^ is occurring? The break has to occur somewhere.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 10:00:16 PM by bbr2314 »

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1610 on: June 24, 2018, 10:07:09 PM »
Another consideration is that the +anomalies this spring over Siberia will result in massive plumes of smoke come July and August, farther north than 2012's plumes. This will probably result in a knock-out blow to the CAB. There is going to be a tremendous amount of burning.

Open OT:
They were quite extensive in 2012, indeed. The fires in Siberia.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=78305

Close OT.

Quote
The latest flare-up prompted Russian authorities to declare a state of emergency in seven regions, including the Khanty-Mansiisk autonomous area

That's funny, I was there for 3 weeks in 2012 doing field work in Siberian wetlands. I flew back on the 18th of June. I do remember it was very hot there those weeks.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1611 on: June 24, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
Another consideration is that the +anomalies this spring over Siberia will result in massive plumes of smoke come July and August, farther north than 2012's plumes. This will probably result in a knock-out blow to the CAB. There is going to be a tremendous amount of burning.

Open OT:
They were quite extensive in 2012, indeed. The fires in Siberia.
https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/NaturalHazards/view.php?id=78305

Close OT.

Quote
The latest flare-up prompted Russian authorities to declare a state of emergency in seven regions, including the Khanty-Mansiisk autonomous area

That's funny, I was there for 3 weeks in 2012 doing field work in Siberian wetlands. I flew back on the 18th of June. I do remember it was very hot there those weeks.

2018 has been way worse than 2012 the past 10 days. The people saying it is a joke are clearly not looking at satellite or ESRL reanalysis.


Tor Bejnar

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1612 on: June 24, 2018, 10:44:23 PM »
...
The Beaufort [ice] should fall apart completely in another 10 days or so as all the newest ice melts out entirely, and it will present as a bunch of floes. ...
Folks occasionally post images (like uniquorn this morning) of the Beaufort Sea.  I suspect many or most of the coherent blocks of ice are hunks of MYI which will persist much or all of this melting season.  I recall our watching "Big Block" in 2016.  I had wondered (earlier in that season) if the MYI in Beaufort Sea would survive.  It didn't.  We'll see if this year's MYI blocks have a different staying power than those of 2016.  IIRC this year's MYI blocks started out less attached to each other than the 2016 ones did (but I don't have time to check it out this evening).
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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1613 on: June 24, 2018, 11:32:17 PM »
I've never understood that forest fires in Siberia or elsewhere could be a knockout blow for Arctic ice. In fact, I doubt this could be the case.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1614 on: June 24, 2018, 11:36:52 PM »
...
The Beaufort [ice] should fall apart completely in another 10 days or so as all the newest ice melts out entirely, and it will present as a bunch of floes. ...
Folks occasionally post images (like uniquorn this morning) of the Beaufort Sea.  I suspect many or most of the coherent blocks of ice are hunks of MYI which will persist much or all of this melting season.  I recall our watching "Big Block" in 2016.  I had wondered (earlier in that season) if the MYI in Beaufort Sea would survive.  It didn't.  We'll see if this year's MYI blocks have a different staying power than those of 2016.  IIRC this year's MYI blocks started out less attached to each other than the 2016 ones did (but I don't have time to check it out this evening).

Beaufort melt is beginning to lag badly. My guess is much of the MYI will survive.

Neven

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1615 on: June 24, 2018, 11:40:17 PM »
I would wait for the current forecast to play out.
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bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1616 on: June 24, 2018, 11:42:34 PM »
I've never understood that forest fires in Siberia or elsewhere could be a knockout blow for Arctic ice. In fact, I doubt this could be the case.
Forest fires occur because of extant heat / dry conditions. They then loft enormous plumes of burning carbon into the atmosphere at extremely high temperatures (in fact they can create their own surface weather). When occurring en-masse I see no reason why plumes of smoke wouldn't compound continental heat cannons over the high Arctic where they act to enhance insolation (over areas that are by then open ocean) and reduce albedo when deposited onto the surface on the bits of ice in between.

Nuclear winter is surmised on massive fires impacting atmospheric conditions. The worsening of annual fires across the continents due to changing weather patterns could easily create events of similar / smaller magnitudes that occur due to natural conditions.

If you look at satellite imagery of the GAC in August of 2012 you can see it was feeding on heat plumes that contained large amounts of smoke from Siberia. In fact the two chief quadrants feeding into the cyclone were completely horribly smokey.

When you set permafrost or forests on fire they burn!

uniquorn

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1617 on: June 25, 2018, 12:17:30 AM »
A lot of MYI went through the garlic press in 2017 so it may not be so resilient this year. The worldview image is a little cloudy, but polarview has an image on jun23.
I enhanced the last polarview frame to bring out fractures.

 

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1618 on: June 25, 2018, 12:30:56 AM »
Beaufort melt is beginning to lag badly. My guess is much of the MYI will survive.

Building east wind in the week ahead, and temps well above freezing.  My guess is that the lag is temporary, but as Nevin said, we'll see how it plays out.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1619 on: June 25, 2018, 03:01:16 AM »
I would wait for the current forecast to play out.


I agree that things can change.  But I don't believe we are anywhere near the conditions that 2012 had at this time.

Below is June 6 and June 9h 2012.

We can clearly see how fast and early surface melt and albedo change happened all over.

Other years like this are 07 and 10.

Not even 2011 or 2008 were this early.

That's weeks ahead of this year.  2018 hasn't even started this process over half the ice sheet

« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 03:07:21 AM by Frivolousz21 »
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Michael Hauber

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1620 on: June 25, 2018, 04:44:00 AM »
No comparison 2018 vs 2012 at this stage IMO.  2012 had solid basin wide surface melt from early June, whereas this year has only had solid surface melt through the Russian side.  2012 had a significant ice dispersion event which created mixed floes/open water in a swath from Kara right through to Beaufort.  This year we had a strong low, but it was only strong through the Kara/Barents sea which are typically dispersed this time of year, and weakened dramatically as it entered the main Arctic basin, and has served only to protect the ice with cool cloudy conditions.  There is an area of dispersed ice in Beaufort but nothing compared to 2012.

Comparison to 2013 - both had very low starting thickness.  2013 as a follow on from 2012.  This year after an unusually warm winter.  Both years have started with substantial cool and cloudy conditions due to low pressure, but in 2013 the low pressure was strong and central enough to rip apart substantial areas of dispersed ice near the pole towards Laptev through to Barents region.

So arguably a poorer start to the melt season than even 2013.

edit: current forecast should push things ahead of 2013 quite rapidly IMO.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 04:50:06 AM by Michael Hauber »
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binntho

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1621 on: June 25, 2018, 07:15:57 AM »
enuff with the long winded speculations and hyperbolic predictions ...
because a thing is eloquently expressed it should not be taken to be as necessarily true
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Aluminium

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1622 on: June 25, 2018, 07:33:18 AM »
June 20-24.

JKDMaineUSA

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1623 on: June 25, 2018, 07:36:59 AM »
Actually .. I would call this slow start, a nice start to the melting season..

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1624 on: June 25, 2018, 08:22:07 AM »
June 20-24.
I notice some interesting developments:
It seems the warm water is eating away the ice in the recently exported Chukchi bulge, which shrunk considerably, and in the region heading towards the ESS, where contact is almost achieved between the coastal polynia and the main open water.
The Beaufort seems to be in some sort of equilibrium between southern export and melt, but I'm guessing the sea never had enough open area to soak up strong early sunshine as in 2016, and temps are not high, so it might go rather slow.
A polynia has opened off the north-east tip of Greenland.
The Laptev melt ponds have disappeared, either refroze or punched through the ice.
The Kara seems to be shrinking rapidly.
An interesting melting season indeed, as Neven has said. And I want to thank again the many posters in this thread that post animations and image analysis, bringing the other readers hard data. I too wish for a little bit less speculation. Often when someone posts several long posts one after the other, I feel it is too much for this thread where things should be short and concise if they are speculative.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1625 on: June 25, 2018, 09:30:02 AM »
Strongly enhanced graphic: The very different melt and drift areas in Beaufort and ESS/Laptev are crawling closer to an encounter. And there appears an interesting feature next to the pole: Kind of cellulite ... Is this due to an onsetting drift towards the very open sea around Svalbard? Is the ice at the pole losing its structure? Are there going to start strange things? Very early to call, but interesting though.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:50:54 AM by Thawing Thunder »
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FredBear

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1626 on: June 25, 2018, 10:21:16 AM »
Good News! The Barrow webcam has come back online @ 21/06/2018.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1627 on: June 25, 2018, 11:01:39 AM »
Text 00z models are in great agreement for the next 10 days of the already underway pattern change with high pressure taking over most of the Arctic basin.

It won't be wall to wall clear skies.  But there will be plenty of sun to cause surface melt everywhere.

And warm air will be pulled in off NA and dumped into the central basin.

Extent and Area will certainly plummet.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1628 on: June 25, 2018, 11:12:13 AM »
And whatever value Smos data offers.  It shows the area over the Atlantic side did freeze up or get a fresh Cost of snow.

Even tho models say temps are above freezing.

Models notoriously over estimate ice sheet near surface warmth under cloudy skies in the Arctic without strong warm air advecting.


Fwie..I think this area will see melting at the surface as early as today given the current changeable weather.
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uniquorn

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1629 on: June 25, 2018, 11:58:37 AM »
Kara Sea, jun21-25. Quite a sudden break up.

edit:nothing
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 12:25:37 PM by uniquorn »

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1630 on: June 25, 2018, 12:23:07 PM »
Laptev Sea, jun23-25. Another break up?

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1631 on: June 25, 2018, 01:30:06 PM »
FYI: the Canadian Ice Service is serving up maps again. Shipping season is about to begin.

Iqaluit is in melt pond season, but not yet breakup season. I’ll try to take pictures when I go home on Friday of there and, weather permitting, of Hudson Strait.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1632 on: June 25, 2018, 02:10:18 PM »

Extent and Area will certainly plummet.

Meanwhile,

NSIDC data at 24th June says area loss has almost stopped, down to just 9k on the 24th.

Indeed total area is now just shy of half a million km2 greater than the average of the 2010's  on this date . Half a million km2 is a lot of ice, no matter how thick, with the annual average melt approaching 50% done.

ps:-
Quote
DMSP F18 to undergo testing late June, early July
June 22, 2018
The Defense Meteorological Satellite Program (DMSP) F18 satellite will be undergoing testing from June 25 to 29 and from July 9 to 12. During this time, data from the Special Sensor Microwave Imager/Sounder (SSMIS) sensor on F18 may have degraded quality or may not be collected. DMSP F18 is the primary sensor that provides NSIDC with near-real-time data for sea ice monitoring (nsidc-0081, the Sea Ice Index, and the Arctic Sea Ice News and Analysis web page). If the data quality does not meet operational standards, NSIDC will remove the resulting sea ice fields or NSIDC may not distribute data from the F18 SSMIS during the test periods.
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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1633 on: June 25, 2018, 05:04:29 PM »
Meanwhile,

NSIDC data at 24th June says area loss has almost stopped, down to just 9k on the 24th.

Indeed total area is now just shy of half a million km2 greater than the average of the 2010's  on this date . Half a million km2 is a lot of ice, no matter how thick, with the annual average melt approaching 50% done.


That's definitely caused by spread.

fascinating ...

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1634 on: June 25, 2018, 05:39:06 PM »
HYCOM Thickness Forecast for 03 July pretty similar to observed Data in 2016 for the same Date.
I expect the same record Low, Heart- shaped slushy Minimum- absent any more GAC- Surprises...

https://www7320.nrlssc.navy.mil/GLBhycomcice1-12/navo/arcticictn/nowcast/ictn2016070212_2016070300_572_arcticictn.001.gif

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1635 on: June 25, 2018, 05:57:47 PM »
I think HYCOM is overestimating the melting rate. There is no way that Kara Sea will more or less melt out in a week!

I'm pretty sure that we'll dodge another bullet this year. Personally, I don't think we'll see a big melting year until we either go into a strong La Niña or when the PDO switch back to its negative phase.

As you might have seen, the landfast ice in Chukchi Sea have finally detached into floes. Winds and currents should have more impact from now and onward.

GFS 06z operational run is absolutely hilarious in Fantasyland! At +384h there is a 965 hpa bomb cyclone over the CAB. While that is just a pure fantasy it would had been interesting to see how such an intensive cyclone in July would impact the Arctic. Any ideas?


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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1636 on: June 25, 2018, 06:40:42 PM »
Meanwhile,

NSIDC data at 24th June says area loss has almost stopped, down to just 9k on the 24th.

Indeed total area is now just shy of half a million km2 greater than the average of the 2010's  on this date . Half a million km2 is a lot of ice, no matter how thick, with the annual average melt approaching 50% done.


That's definitely caused by spread.

fascinating ...

Area is not effected by spread as much as extent is. Area loss has slowed because area loss has slowed.

bbr2314

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1637 on: June 25, 2018, 07:16:54 PM »


No competition. 2018 is much worse than 2012.

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1638 on: June 25, 2018, 07:42:55 PM »
Area is not effected by spread as much as extent is. Area loss has slowed because area loss has slowed.

Are you sure? I thought they where quite related. Or are you thinking of volume?
From Wikipedia:
"To estimate ice area, scientists calculate the percentage of sea ice in each pixel, multiply by the pixel area, and total the amounts. To estimate ice extent, scientists set a threshold percentage, and count every pixel meeting or exceeding that threshold as "ice-covered." The National Snow and Ice Data Center, one of NASA’s Distributed Active Archive Centers, monitors sea ice extent using a threshold of 15 percent."
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 08:42:51 PM by miki »

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1639 on: June 25, 2018, 07:43:06 PM »
Quote
A lot of MYI went through the garlic press in 2017
The channels of the CAA have blued notably in worldview over the last ten days (cloudy), accompanied by loss of ice concentration in UH AMSR2 (below), which may prelude an early opening of the main Northwest Passage (northern route).

I haven't chased down all the years and dates of first opening but 1998, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2015 and 2016 are among them. The easiest way to do this objectively is with a color picker  set on open water blue and a concentration range on a montage of Aug-Sep UH AMSR2 3,125 km.

That would make possible ice export through the garlic press given consistent winds pushing from the north down the basin edge. This would be significant primarily for loss of remaining 3+MYI, not so much for Arctic Ocean volume.

Last summer, garlic press export ran for some 101 days from August 18th to November 26th as shown in the mp4 below. Export through the Nares and Fram are not notably coordinated with it. It's not possible to foresee when the export route will open nor what the winds will be doing when it is.

The last two months would not have resulted garlic press export even if the passage had been open. Indeed, surface winds have been largely anemic and incoherent for much of the spring, reflecting lack of a persistent MSLP pattern.

Winds flow along pressure contour lines (geostrophically) in proportion to how fast pressure changes with distance between highs and lows (gradient). Ice moves in accordance to the forces exerted on its sails (ridges and edges) by sub-2 m winds which are very inconvenient meteorologically.

We've seen previously that the entire ice edge from Morris Jesup to Banks Island is in motion throughout the year, ie the very thickest CAA basin ice is not attached in any significant way to the shoreline or shelf bottom.

This means at peak peripheral open water in late summer, there is nothing pressing the residual ice pack against the Canadian shore other than the historic air pressure pattern. The residual ice pack could conceivably drift off to the north, ending the season as an island of thick ice surrounded by new FYI.

Neither currents nor tides have much of a role here on floating ice export per Ascat-AB; the thick berg that came down to block the channel above Lowther Island on Nov 6th (day 312 below, discussed way up-forum) may be the rate-limiting step in opening of the passage this year.

[As noted earlier by others, interpretability of UB SMOS as ice thinness in the inner CAA deteriorated rapidly in early June; some value might remain when consistent over several consecutive cold days without passing weather or when trending locally. Piomas and many other tools struggle with low resolution pixels having a foot on both islands and water. Sentinel-1AB rarely images the entire NW Passage even in 3 day composites because of spreading swaths from its orbital inclination.]
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 09:29:44 PM by A-Team »

Hyperion

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1640 on: June 25, 2018, 10:22:09 PM »
Gif with fades between frames of 19 to 24 June SMOS.
The water vapour precipitation directly onto the ice north of Svalbard and fram and the surface melt caused by it has washed the salt deeper into the porous ice. Thus lowering the salinity strata that SMOS looks for, hence appearing to thicken it. While there could be some freezing of this in the interior, this would be at the expense of equivalent mass melted at the bottom. And tend to seal the ice for melt pond development. This impression is exaggerated of course by the beige clipoff.

Interesting foehn wind like effect in the area north of nares where it was possibly snowing. either heat in the surface air incoming from the latent heat released by vapour condensing on the surface earliers caused surface melt, or the cloud cover did it trapping outgoing, and letting in irradiation. That was the only cloudy area, but it thinned the most!
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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1641 on: June 25, 2018, 10:26:45 PM »
If SMOS weren't useless right now, we'd hear about it from reliable sources. Can we stop using it until October or thereabouts?
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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1642 on: June 25, 2018, 10:32:51 PM »
State of the ice in a clear patch near the Chukchi plateau jun25.

last images enhanced imagej brightness contrast 171,255 clahe 63,256,2.2

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1643 on: June 26, 2018, 12:11:10 AM »
Checking for evidence of foehn wind like effect though I preferred the sst salinity stuff ;)

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1644 on: June 26, 2018, 02:36:23 AM »
My very amateur weather eye sees that the weather forecasting models look quite consistent for the next week, with high pressure currently over the Laptev sea weakening but ridging toward a building high on the Beaufort/CAA side, which stays stationary at about 1025mb into the weekend. Meanwhile low pressure spins near Franz Josef Land, although the models differ a little on how deep the low gets, ECMWF a bit weaker and GFS a bit stronger. Seems like good melting weather for parts of the ice that haven't seen much direct sun yet, continued strong sun in along the eastern Siberian side, and also consistent winds blowing ice toward the Atlantic.
Here's 18z GFS:

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1645 on: June 26, 2018, 02:39:47 AM »
If SMOS weren't useless right now, we'd hear about it from reliable sources. Can we stop using it until October or thereabouts?

In the melt season, yes it's useless for measuring thickness.

What it is sensitive to then is "wetness of the surface and occurence of melt ponds":

Quote
Thin sea ice occurs during the freezing season. In the melting season, the thickness of sea ice is highly variable and the emission properties in the microwave change due to the wetness of the surface and occurrence of melt ponds in the Arctic. Therefore, thickness data are calculated only during the freezing season, that is from October to April in the Arctic and from March to September in the Antarctic. During the melting season, the procedure does not yield meaningful results.
https://seaice.uni-bremen.de/thin-ice-thickness/


Agree it shouldn't be used during the melt season for measuring thickness and in my opinion it should be made clear that it isn't being used for that but, instead, as a direct measurement correlating to surface wetness.

I do appreciate that those posting it have cropped out the units of measurement in the scale legend - thereby removing any reference to purported thickness.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 02:52:33 AM by slow wing »

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1646 on: June 26, 2018, 03:36:48 AM »
Using smos to define wetness versus other years.

2018 is essentially slower than almost every other year since 2010. 

Even tho 2018 doesn't have a large area still showing a mostly dry reflective surface.

most of the ice sheet shows very little wetness over a huge area.

This should change.  But we all know real ice loss takes a while to get going from the initial surface wetness.

And bottom ice melt takes even longer.

 2018 has seen 2/3rd of the ice sheet barely see any signs of surface wetness.

A tremendous change is going come or 2018 will be close to 13-14 in the end
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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1647 on: June 26, 2018, 06:44:23 AM »
I do appreciate that those posting it have cropped out the units of measurement in the scale legend - thereby removing any reference to purported thickness.

I seem to be seeing a thickness scale...  And, this raises the question, if we are displaying wetness, what do the colors mean?  Is the cropped "beige" color more wet or more dry?

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1648 on: June 26, 2018, 06:54:01 AM »
Area is not effected by spread as much as extent is. Area loss has slowed because area loss has slowed.

Are you sure? I thought they where quite related. Or are you thinking of volume?
From Wikipedia:
"To estimate ice area, scientists calculate the percentage of sea ice in each pixel, multiply by the pixel area, and total the amounts. To estimate ice extent, scientists set a threshold percentage, and count every pixel meeting or exceeding that threshold as "ice-covered." The National Snow and Ice Data Center, one of NASA’s Distributed Active Archive Centers, monitors sea ice extent using a threshold of 15 percent."

So, start with one pixel's worth of fully covered ice.  Which is one pixel of area and one pixel of extent.  Fracture that into five pieces that go floating off into separate pixels.  You now have 5 pixels of extent and 1 pixel of area.  Fracture each of the five pieces into two that each go floating off.  You now have 1 pixel of area and zero pixels of extent.  So the area isn't being affected by spread here while extent is jumping around all over the place.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 05:54:21 PM by cesium62 »

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Re: The 2018 melting season
« Reply #1649 on: June 26, 2018, 07:00:59 AM »
Replying to Cesium62, post #1647:

Beige is more dry - up to 100% dry, down to an unknown percentage dry. The melt season started out beige except at the edges and the maps are now progressively moving away from that.

We don't have a calibration of color vs. percentage melt ponds.

Also, we don't know if there might be systematic distortions, e.g. from clouds.


That said, if one year is more at the beige end on a particular date, it's likely it has a lower percentage of melt ponds. And a day sequence over this year should give a reasonable idea of when and where the melt ponds started forming. In my opinion that's interesting.