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SteveMDFP

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #400 on: June 16, 2018, 12:59:07 AM »
I believe that a case could be made that Giuliani should be charged with witness tampering

I believe that belief meets the standard for hyperbolic emotive hand-waving on internet forums. :)

No need to be insulting.  Serious legal minds suggest that dangling a pardon can constitute obstruction of justice:
Why Dangling a Pardon Could Be an Obstruction of Justice—Even if the Pardon Power is Absolute
https://www.justsecurity.org/54356/dangling-pardon-obstruction-justice-even-pardon-power-absolute/

". . . Instead, a pardon has only been dangled before Flynn and Manafort, and the analysis of whether that action could become part of an obstruction case against Trump raises entirely different considerations. . . ."

SteveMDFP

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #401 on: June 16, 2018, 02:27:41 AM »
I didn't insult anyone's beliefs. I called out an insultingly gratuitous statement couched as a belief.

A public forum is not the place to denigrate the reasoning of others.  It's a place to address assertions thoughtfully.

You didn't actually have any comment on the reference  provided.  The words quoted weren't from the  editorial board of any newspaper, they were the legal reasoning of Alex Whiting,
"Professor of Practice, Harvard Law School; former federal prosecutor at the Department of Justice and the U.S. Attorney's Office in Boston; served as Investigations Coordinator and Prosecutions Coordinator at the International Criminal Court."

Dangling the prospect of a pardon in front of an indicted witness can, it seems, constitute obstruction of justice.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #402 on: June 16, 2018, 04:28:30 AM »
I didn't insult anyone's beliefs. I called out an insultingly gratuitous statement couched as a belief.

There you go again. Insulting my beliefs and then accusing me of not even having a genuine belief. What gives you the right to tell others they are not entitled to believe their own beliefs? This is more than insulting it's forum totalitarianism. 

No, out-of-context assertion of personal belief can easily be an insult.  "I believe Mr. Smith is a jerk" is an insult couched as an assertion of a belief.

Quote
A public forum is not the place to denigrate the reasoning of others.
Quote
Then please stop doing that to me.

I haven't.  I've addressed your public assertions, not your personal reasoning.
Quote

Quote
You didn't actually have any comment on the reference  provided.  The words quoted weren't from the  editorial board of any newspaper, they were the legal reasoning of .....

Correct. But so what? Your comment is an irrelevant comment.

My comment was only about the comments made by the poster who posted the 'reference provided.' Did you miss that fact? I thoughtfully addressed what I chose to address. That you don't personally like that is irrelevant as well. You do not get to tell me what I chose to address and what I choose to ignore (as you have chosen now to ignore my comments about your references above.) If you think/believe that you do have such a right, then I think you need to go have a really close look at that attitude/belief and consider revising it.

Your personal tastes are of no importance to me. What you call "insulting" I call an astute thoughtful observation of the state of play presented as playful good nature humor - of little import. What you call "an insultingly gratuitous statement couched as a belief" I call a valid genuine personal belief using an artful literary style you personally find objectionable. Your complaint has been noted and filed appropriately. I have made my simple point. I have noted your disagreement. No need to repeatedly focus on my comment as something worthy of rehashing again.

Now, should you wish to proceed to formulate an intelligent argument as to why you believe "Serious legal minds suggest" something of great import about "obstruction of justice", then do proceed. But you have no rational excuse to involve me directly or in any other whatsoever whilst you may, or may not, "address your assertions thoughtfully."

Please, go right ahead (the floor is yours to use as you wish) but do leave me out of it. Thank you.

The assertion you disputed was that dangling a pardon in front of an indicted witness could be obstruction of justice. Correct me if I'm wrong.  I supplied reasonably authoritative opinion that this was so.  So, is AbruptSLR's comment reasonable or not?  If it's reasonable, I think you owe him an apology.

TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #403 on: June 16, 2018, 06:11:58 PM »
Just for giggles.


Has an American court ever ruled on whether "Dangling the prospect of a pardon in front of an indited witness" does in fact constitute obstruction of justice?


Is there a precedent under British common law?


What was the ruling?


Were the circumstances at all similar to those in this instance?


Can falsely accusing someone of attempting to obstruct justice be considered an attempt to abrogate that person's right to free speech?
Terry




sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #404 on: June 17, 2018, 05:01:42 AM »
Manafort knows Mueller list in Ukrainian related actions:

"Jackson did not order Mueller's team to make public the identities of the individuals and companies involved, who are often referred to by pseudonyms in the indictment and other court filings. She simply told prosecutors to give that information to Manafort's attorneys."

"prosecutors will be likely be unable to present evidence about businesses or people not on it."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/12/mueller-unnamed-figures-manafort-638800

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #405 on: June 18, 2018, 11:19:24 AM »
If the Mueller investigation is allowed to run its full course, hopefully Congress can see past Team Trump's ongoing Shlomi-type media blitz tactics during the impeachment proceedings:

Title: "Trump must resist temptation to pardon Manafort for real crimes"

http://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/392607-trump-must-resist-temptation-to-pardon-manafort-for-real-crimes

Extract: "After a few weeks on the job, President Trump s attorney Rudy Giuliani is beginning to sound like the Vince Shlomi of constitutional law. Shlomi became a household name for his mesmerizing low-grade “ShamWow” commercials promising a towel that “holds 20 times its weight” and “doesn’t drip, doesn’t make a mess.” He would ask, “Why do you want to work twice as hard?” when you could just pull out a ShamWow.

Asked about the jailing of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort for witness tampering, Giuliani declared, “Things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons.” The only thing missing to complete the Shlomi comparison was a picture of a pardon soaking up a bowlful of special counsel Robert Mueller’s indictments.

The pardon power is not a ShamWow for presidents to clean up scandals."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Buddy

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #406 on: June 18, 2018, 02:12:10 PM »
Every time someone shakes a tree ...... another Russian falls out.  This time it was from Roger Stone. 

In addition, looks like Devin Nunes was leaking FBI material to Traitor Don.  Who would have guessed? 🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

And don't forget Jason Chaffetz ...... who is now lying for FOX News.  I'm not sure that FOX is going to want to continue his contract when he goes to prison.  Maybe he'll get Rudy as a cell mate. 

The Russian trolls have been busy ..... and will likely stay busy over the next couple of months.  Donnie better hurry up and "hook up" with little Vladi in Vienna ....... his days are numbered ...
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #407 on: June 18, 2018, 11:43:35 PM »
The Mueller investigation is leaking like a sieve from unnamed sources close to the investigation since it started.
Bullshit. (Not an insult :) but a statement of fact.)
The "leakers" are named subjects of the investigation. Or well-known co-conspirators like Nunes or Giuliani, or idiotic self&Trump-campaign self incriminators like Nunes or Giuliani or Stone :)

Just a handful of known knowns  ;D

E.g.,
as recently trump-eted by the right wing propaganda machine (Fox News, Zero Hedge, etc. etc.)  Nunes illegally got something in 2016 from rogue FBI agents (perhaps the revoluzzerz friends of Giuliani in the NY FBI bureau).
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-06-16/we-had-whistleblowers-nunes-reveals-good-fbi-agents-tipped-congress-about-comey (Saturday)

Problem is,
Quote
Adam Schiff appeared on Meet The Press on Sunday and confirmed that whatever was going on between Devin Nunes and these FBI agents, he was never looped in. That alone means Nunes committed a crime by obtaining this leaked information from rogue agents and then hiding it from his committee counterpart. But it’s even worse, because Nunes didn’t say “I” – he said “we.” In this context, the only possible “we” is the Donald Trump campaign.
Evil MSNBC...
http://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/devin-nunes-incriminates-others-trump/10889/



 

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #408 on: June 18, 2018, 11:55:25 PM »
2016 knife fight in the FBI between HQ and NY: FBI NY office leaked to Nunes about the same time as they found the emails:

" ... dissident agents in the New York office contacted him[Nunes] in late September 2016 ..."

" ... the FBI first found these Clinton emails on September 26, meaning that agents in the New York office contacted the Republican chairman of the House Intelligence Committee even before top officials in the FBI’s Washington headquarters knew of them"

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/06/18/wash-j18.html

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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #409 on: June 19, 2018, 12:22:24 AM »
Some FBI agents, during Comey's watch, were working to sink Clinton's campaign:

Title: "Here’s what’s buried beneath that FBI report: How rogue agents sabotaged the Clinton campaign"

https://www.salon.com/2018/06/18/heres-whats-buried-beneath-that-fbi-report-how-rogue-agents-sabotaged-the-clinton-campaign/

Extract: "There was no FBI conspiracy against Trump. But agents loyal to Rudy Giuliani were eager to sink Hillary Clinton"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #410 on: June 19, 2018, 06:28:50 AM »
"Some FBI agents, during Comey's watch, were working to sink Clinton's campaign"

Those seem to have been in NY. And some at HQ were working to sink Trump.

--
"[Trump is] not ever going to become president, right? Right?!" Page, who also worked on Mueller's staff, responded.

"No. No he won't. We'll stop it," Strzok texted back.
--

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/14/fbi-agents-text-reportedly-disclosed-by-justice-watchdog-well-stop-trump-from-becoming-president.html

The FBI has been politicized since Hoover. Now people are mad about it ? Lil late innit ?

sidd

Buddy

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #411 on: June 19, 2018, 12:50:41 PM »
Democrats press U.S. Justice Dept. officials on possible leaks to Giuliani


Rudy, Chaffetz, Nunes...... all involved in this.  But that was known BEFORE the election.

Quote
U.S. Senate Democrats on Monday pressed Justice Department officials about whether some FBI agents may have leaked damaging information about Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton to Rudy Giuliani, now an adviser to U.S. President Donald Trump, shortly before the 2016 election.

In response to questions from Democrats during a hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, FBI Director Chris Wray said his office was "aggressively investigating a number of leaks," but offered no details.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-press-us-justice-dept-officials-on-possible-leaks-to-giuliani/ar-AAyPDO8?li=BBnbcA1&ocid=iehp
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #412 on: June 19, 2018, 04:21:47 PM »
Do you think that in the 2018 midterms that Mercer and Team Trump will have Emerdata Ltd (a legacy company of the discredited Cambridge Analytica) use psychographics in order to game that election?

Title: "Cambridge Analytica won't be revived under new company name, executive says",
Byline: May 8, 2018:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-cambridge-analytica-shutting-down-20180508-story.html

Extract: "Several media outlets had pointed to filings on U.K. business registry Companies House showing Cambridge Analytica executives had set up a London-based firm in August 2017 called Emerdata Ltd. Rebekah and Jennifer Mercer, the daughters of conservative hedge fund tycoon and Trump supporter Robert Mercer, joined the board in March.

Title: "Psychographics: the behavioural analysis that helped Cambridge Analytica know voters’ minds", Byline: March 21, 2018:

https://theconversation.com/psychographics-the-behavioural-analysis-that-helped-cambridge-analytica-know-voters-minds-93675

Extract: "But there is also the matter of what Cambridge Analytica actually did with the data. In fact the data crunching company’s approach represents a step change in how analytics can today be used as a tool to generate insights – and to exert influence.

Cambridge Analytica was contracted to the Trump campaign and provided an entirely new weapon for the election machine. While it also used demographic segments to identify groups of voters, as Clinton’s campaign had, Cambridge Analytica also segmented using psychographics. As definitions of class, education, employment, age and so on, demographics are informational. Psychographics are behavioural – a means to segment by personality.

Title: "Cambridge Analytica CEO talks to TechCrunch about Trump, Hillary and the future:
Byline: November 6, 2017:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/06/cambridge-analytica-ceo-talks-to-techcrunch-about-trump-hilary-and-the-future/

Extract:"
"MB:
But did you use psychographics in the Trump campaign or didn’t you?

Nix:
No, we didn’t. We’ve been absolutely, incredibly clear about this. We used psychographics all through the 2014 midterms. We used psychographics all through the Cruz and Carson primaries. But when we got to Trump’s campaign in June 2016, whenever it was, there it was there was five and a half months till the elections."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Buddy

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #413 on: June 19, 2018, 04:29:34 PM »
Here is another source of information that I happened across in my reading last night.  I haven't thoroughly "vetted it" as yet.  But I thought I would put it out there with the caveat that it is not yet vetted.

https://themoscowproject.org/briefings/

Things are going to continue to pick up speed in the coming days and weeks:  (1)  Donnie will likely either announce he is not going to sit down with Mueller, OR Mueller is going to subpoena Donnie, (2) Roger Stone and Michael Cohen are in the "on deck circle" for having charges initiated against them, (3)  Donnie continues to look for any means to cause a ruckus .... thereby confusing some people, etc.

More fans ..... more shit hitting the fans.... rinse, repeat...

« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 04:39:17 PM by Buddy »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #414 on: June 19, 2018, 08:29:29 PM »
"Some FBI agents, during Comey's watch, were working to sink Clinton's campaign"

Those seem to have been in NY. And some at HQ were working to sink Trump.

--
"[Trump is] not ever going to become president, right? Right?!" Page, who also worked on Mueller's staff, responded.

"No. No he won't. We'll stop it," Strzok texted back.
--

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/14/fbi-agents-text-reportedly-disclosed-by-justice-watchdog-well-stop-trump-from-becoming-president.html

The FBI has been politicized since Hoover. Now people are mad about it ? Lil late innit ?

sidd

I note that the released report by IG Horowitz said almost nothing about Giuliani's role in the leaks by the FBI.  As there is public information that Giuliani was in contact with New York FBI agents about the Clinton emails, it is reasonable to assume that Horowitz has Giuliani under criminal investigation:

Title: "Justice Department watchdog says probes ongoing into disclosure of Comey memos, FBI leaks"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-michael-horowitz-christopher-wray-congress-20180618-story.html

Extract: "The Justice Department inspector general said Monday that his office is still probing possible misconduct in the FBI's safeguarding of its own secrets — from how former Director James Comey handled his private memos, to whether others under him may have given sensitive details to reporters.

Inspector General Michael Horowitz revealed the continued investigative work to lawmakers on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which on Monday conducted the first hearing to examine his 500-page report assessing how the FBI handled the high-profile investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server while she was secretary of state."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #415 on: June 19, 2018, 11:31:39 PM »

I note that the released report by IG Horowitz said almost nothing about Giuliani's role in the leaks by the FBI.  As there is public information that Giuliani was in contact with New York FBI agents about the Clinton emails, it is reasonable to assume that Horowitz has Giuliani under criminal investigation:

Extract: "The Justice Department inspector general said Monday that his office is still probing possible misconduct in the FBI's safeguarding of its own secrets — from how former Director James Comey handled his private memos, to whether others under him may have given sensitive details to reporters.

Inspector General Michael Horowitz revealed the continued investigative work to lawmakers on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which on Monday conducted the first hearing to examine his 500-page report assessing how the FBI handled the high-profile investigation into Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server while she was secretary of state."


I'm unsure what crime you believe Giuliani is guilty of? AFAIK he's simply acting as a private attorney employed by Trump.
Why wouldn't he be allowed to talk to FBI agents or anyone else for that matter?
Why wouldn't he be allowed to speak about what he had discovered?
Is there a gag order on the case that limits what he can say about his own research?
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #416 on: June 20, 2018, 12:02:53 AM »

I'm unsure what crime you believe Giuliani is guilty of? AFAIK he's simply acting as a private attorney employed by Trump.
Why wouldn't he be allowed to talk to FBI agents or anyone else for that matter?
Why wouldn't he be allowed to speak about what he had discovered?
Is there a gag order on the case that limits what he can say about his own research?
Terry

Here is a link and an extract from a November 3, 2016, NYT article about how before Trump was elected and before Giuliani became Trump's lawyer, Giuliani was boasting on Fox & Friends about how FBI officials were leaking information to Rudy about how they tried and failed to entrap the Clintons:

Title: "As Trump Ally, Rudy Giuliani Boasts of Ties to F.B.I."

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/nyregion/as-trump-ally-rudy-giuliani-hints-at-ties-to-the-fbi.html

Extract: "Rudolph W. Giuliani, the former mayor of New York, seemed in a giddy mood when he was interviewed last week on the “Fox & Friends” morning television show.

Tireless if often wildly inaccurate in his attacks on Hillary Clinton’s ethics, health and work as a United States senator and as secretary of state, Mr. Giuliani has been spending every minute in the public spotlight as a surrogate for Donald J. Trump.

His most remarkable claim is that he has a pipeline into the Federal Bureau of Investigation and that agents tell him they are “outraged” that they have not been able to bring Mrs. Clinton and her husband, former President Bill Clinton, to justice."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #417 on: June 20, 2018, 01:03:57 AM »
How does any of the above equate with criminal behavior?


Giuliani may well provide a revolting example of Trumpsterism, but instead you accused him of criminal behavior.


While one side screams that Hillary should be locked up, while the other wants Trump's lawyer to be criminally investigated. Lots of people are walking away muttering about a pox on both of your houses.


You aren't leaving much space between the crazy's rooting for Trump, and the crazy's calling for his impeachment. Neither side can claim the high ground. That train left the station when the ladies wore vaginas to protest Trump's boorish behavior.


I think a lot of voters care about jobs, healthcare, and not getting their kids back in flag shrouded body bags. Everybody cheers when the FBI gets another black eye, and a lot of people like seeing the "establishment" being humiliated.


The "law and order" types have been voting the Republican ticket for a generation. Mueller's machinations aren't impressing that demographic, and the rest of us have been pissed at the law since they searched our lockers in high school.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #418 on: June 20, 2018, 01:26:02 AM »
How does any of the above equate with criminal behavior?

Again my assumption of criminal behavior is based on the fact that the report that the IG issued criticized everybody involved in the FBI's Clinton Email investigation, except for Giuliani, but as noted Giuliani was involved an deserved criticism in the issued IG report.  Thus as the IG investigation on-going it is probable that they are investigating Giuliani for possible criminal matters that would not be appropriate to publish in the IG report.

As the IG cannot talk in public about on-going criminal investigations we will all have to wait to see what the IG reports when he closes his investigation.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #419 on: June 20, 2018, 03:36:45 AM »
It looks like Team Trump will remain under investigation for some time to come, and we will all need to wait for the findings

Title: "Justice Department officials challenge Trump's claim that report about Clinton's email probe 'exonerates' him"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/18/justice-officials-challenge-trumps-claim-that-clintons-email-probe-report-exonerated-him.html

Extract: "The top watchdog at the Department of Justice and the director of the FBI on Monday refuted President Donald Trump's claim that a Justice Department report made public last week "totally exonerates me.""
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 03:38:50 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #420 on: June 20, 2018, 05:15:36 AM »
Whoa: Strzok escorted outta FBI HQ:

" ... escorted from the building amid an internal review of his conduct ..."

bet there's a gofundme page for him in 3,2,1 ...

http://thehill.com/policy/national-security/393101-fbi-agent-peter-strzok-escorted-from-building-amid-internal-review

"Strzok has said he is willing to testify before the House ... "

unlike his bosses: Comey, McCabe, Lynch:

"Comey refused to appear before Congress on Monday to talk about his handling of the Clinton email investigation, and his fired deputy, Andrew McCabe, asserted his Fifth Amendment rights "

"Lynch also declined to show up for a major hearing where the Senate Judiciary Committee "

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/18/comey-refuses-testify-congress-mccabe-pleads-fifth/

Grassley will not give up here. He is old and wise in evil, as much or more so than Difi who is blocking subpoenas.

sidd





sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #421 on: June 20, 2018, 05:39:14 AM »

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #422 on: June 20, 2018, 05:48:10 AM »
Gowdy,Nunes et al. will probably win this one:

--
 Speaker Paul Ryan led a meeting Friday with FBI and DOJ officials in which lawmakers “went item by item” through outstanding subpoenas from the House intelligence and judiciary committees.

“I don’t want the drama,” Gowdy said. “I want the documents.”

" ... documents related to the FBI's investigation of Hillary Clinton’s email server, the firing of FBI official Andrew McCabe and the surveillance starting in 2016 of a former campaign aide to President Donald Trump. "

--

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/17/gowdy-fbi-rosenstein-wray-mccabe-650395

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #423 on: June 20, 2018, 03:39:24 PM »
Cohen is probably angling to get the best deal possible for the information that he has on Trump:

Title: "Cohen 'willing to give information' on Trump"

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/19/michael-cohen-willing-to-give-information-on-trump.cnn/video/playlists/trump-lawyer-michael-cohen/

Extract: "Donald Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen has signaled to friends that he is "willing to give" investigators information on the President if that's what they are looking for, and is planning on hiring a new lawyer to handle a possible indictment from federal prosecutors."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

SteveMDFP

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #424 on: June 20, 2018, 03:53:22 PM »
Cohen is probably angling to get the best deal possible for the information that he has on Trump:
 
Extract: "Donald Trump's personal attorney Michael Cohen . . .is planning on hiring a new lawyer to handle a possible indictment from federal prosecutors."

Hiring done.
Michael Cohen Is Said to Hire Former Prosecutor as New Lawyer
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/nyregion/cohen-trump-prosecutor-lawyer.html

"Michael D. Cohen, President Trump’s longtime personal fixer, has lined up a new lawyer, according to people familiar with the matter. The lawyer, Guy Petrillo, once held a senior role in the same federal prosecutors’ office that has been investigating Mr. Cohen for months.

"It is a common practice for people facing scrutiny by prosecutors to hire lawyers who once worked in the offices investigating them. By bringing on Mr. Petrillo, Mr. Cohen will now have an advocate who is well positioned to help him navigate any negotiations with the prosecutors "

Media folks have speculated whether this choice might signal whether Cohen will fight or cooperate.  The choice here would seem to serve Cohen well whichever direction he chooses.

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #425 on: June 20, 2018, 11:42:21 PM »
Two more anti Trump FBI agents exposed: Moyer and Clinesmith

The latter was on the FBI Clinton and Russia probes and the Mueller panel. Mueller threw him out after Horowitz found text messages.

Clinesmith apparently promised some one that Trump would not get elected:

 “Like, what happened? You promised me this wouldn’t happen. YOU PROMISED…”

After Trump was elected, Clinesmith realizes how much trouble he was in:

"Plus my god damned name is all over the legal documents investigating his staff. So who knows if that breaks to him, what he is going to do."

When you strike at the King, you better make sure you kill him.

https://heavy.com/news/2018/06/kevin-clinesmith-e/

https://nypost.com/2018/06/19/house-goper-unmasks-identities-of-anti-trump-fbi-agents/

sidd




« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 05:12:49 AM by sidd »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #426 on: June 21, 2018, 10:01:37 PM »
The first attached image form a Seth Abramson tweet shows that on Nov 4 and 5, 2016, Donald Trump, Jr. retweeted (and later deleted the tweets) links to information of illegally leaked FBI information about the Clinton email probe.  These tweets link both Michael Flynn and Erik Prince to the illegal FBI leaks, which, the Trump campaign was trying to distribute before the election, but without connecting itself to the illegal sources.  In the second image of two consecutive tweets, Abramson explains how this information could connect for Giuliani and Nunes to the illegal FBI leaks that were used to pressure Comey to reopen the Clinton email investigation just 8 weeks before the 2016 election:
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 10:08:36 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #427 on: June 22, 2018, 04:02:24 AM »
Mueller wants to know where any Russian money was used in the N.R.A.'s political campaign activities in 2016:

Title: "“Coincidence Number 395”: The N.R.A. Spent $30 Million to Elect Trump. Was It Russian Money?"

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/06/the-nra-spent-dollar30-million-to-elect-trump-was-it-russian-money

Extract: "Congressional Democrats, the F.B.I. and Robert Mueller want to know why Putin-tied oligarchs took such an interest in American gun ownership."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #428 on: June 22, 2018, 10:21:23 PM »
It will be interesting to see what Trump tapes that Cohen provides to Arnold for his new Vice show, and whether any of them help with Trump's possible impeachment:

Title: "Tom Arnold says he's teaming up with Michael Cohen and 'taking Trump down'"

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/393598-tom-arnold-cohen-and-i-are-teaming-up-to-take-trump-down

Extract: "Arnold then told NBC News that he met with Cohen as part of a show he is working on for Vice, in which he searches for incriminating videos of the president.

"This dude has all the tapes — this dude has everything,” Arnold told NBC News. "I say to Michael, 'Guess what? We’re taking Trump down together,’ and he’s so tired he’s like, 'OK,' and his wife is like, 'OK, f--- Trump.’”"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #429 on: June 22, 2018, 10:36:16 PM »
We will have to wait and see whether Mueller can use any of this information to link the Trump Campaign to Russian interference in US affairs:

Title: "Inside the Ukraine peace plan in Mueller probe: More authors, earlier drafting than believed

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/article213655989.html

Extract: "A controversial peace plan for Ukraine and Russia that has drawn headlines and scrutiny from Special Counsel Robert Mueller was initially devised in early 2016 with significant input from an ex-congressman and a Ukrainian-American billionaire, according to a former Ukrainian legislator who promoted the proposal before Donald Trump’s election.

Ex-Ukrainian legislator Andrii Artemenko told McClatchy in several recent interviews that the peace proposal, which some analysts believe had a pro-Moscow tilt, was hatched in February 2016 during side discussions at a Ukraine-focused conference at Manor College in suburban Philadelphia. Former Republican Rep. Curt Weldon and New York real estate mogul Alexander Rovt were involved, said Artemenko, who also participated.

“It was called the Rovt-Weldon plan,” said Artemenko, noting that he had been friends with Weldon for almost a decade.

Neither the roles of Weldon and Rovt in the early framing of the plan, nor the fact that it was being devised nearly a year before it was given to a Trump associate for delivery to the administration, have been reported previously. The new names add to a roster of individuals with close ties to Trump who have been identified in connection with the proposal: Trump’s personal lawyer and “fixer,” Michael Cohen; a former sometimes-real estate partner, Felix Sater, who was also an old friend of Cohen; and the president’s first national security adviser, Michael Flynn, who has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with the Russian ambassador during the transition and is cooperating with the Mueller probe.


Some observers say the new names, timing and other details raise questions about whether and to what extent Moscow or its allies influenced the proposal.

Mueller and congressional investigators have been probing the Kremlin’s interference with the 2016 elections and whether there was any coordination between the Trump campaign and Moscow. Some of the witnesses before a Mueller grand jury have been asked about the plan.

The proposal would have lifted sanctions on Moscow if the Kremlin withdrew Russian forces from Eastern Ukraine; it also could have permitted Russia to keep control of Crimea, which it annexed in 2014."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #430 on: June 22, 2018, 11:33:35 PM »
Read a little about Andrii Artemenko and his Right Sector storm troopers and you will find how silly this argument is.


Related image


Terry

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #431 on: June 23, 2018, 06:51:09 AM »
"Ex-Ukrainian legislator accusations rings as true as ex-Iraqi nationals providing evidence of Suddam's WMD"

Citizen, do you not recall we went to forever war based on such testimony ? Aided and abetted by both parties to this day ? How could they both be wrong ?

If you find the evidence lacking, that is your inability to see the truth. Off to the re-education camps with you.

sidd

Hefaistos

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #432 on: June 23, 2018, 05:22:12 PM »
To me, this looks like a proof of corruption.

"New York’s Case Against Trump May Be Prophetic

Why the complaint involving the president’s foundation is a road map for Mueller."

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-06-16/new-york-s-trump-lawsuit-may-be-a-map-for-mueller

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #433 on: June 23, 2018, 10:47:04 PM »
Strzok loses security clearance, is subpoenad to appear before house judiciary committee on wednesday. That ought to be one to watch.

Meanwhile FBI,DOJ are forced to turn over thousands of documents to congress.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/22/peter-strzok-fbi-agent-trump-667176

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/393587-sessions-says-strzok-lost-his-security-clearance

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/23/fbi-russia-probe-documents-nunes-gowdy-goodlatte-667181

sidd


AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #434 on: June 24, 2018, 05:10:09 PM »
It will be interesting to eventually lean what Mueller finds out about the Alfa Bank server that was secretly communicating with a Trump Organization server prior to the 2016 election

Title: "Alfa-Bank"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa-Bank

Extract: "Alfa Bank JSC, the corporate treasury of the Alfa Group, is one of the largest private commercial banks in Russia. It was founded by Russian businessman Mikhail Fridman, who is still the controlling owner today. It is headquartered in Moscow. It operates in seven countries, providing financial services to over 381,600 active corporate customers and 14.2 million retail clients. Alfa Bank is particularly active in Russia and Ukraine, ranking among top 10 largest banks in terms of capital in both countries.

•   2016 – On 31 October and 2 November, Franklin Foer reported in Slate that there had been unusual repeated activity from 4 May to 23 September 2016 between two computer servers registered to Alfa Bank in Moscow and a server owned by the Trump Organization. The activity also included, to a much lesser extent, communications to a server at Spectrum Health, a medical facility chain led by Dick DeVos, the husband of Betsy DeVos. From August through October 2016, the FBI investigated the computer server activity between the Trump Organization and Alfa Bank.

•   2017 – In January, the Donald Trump–Russia dossier, prepared by former MI6 agent Christopher Steele and denoting various ties between Trump and Russia, was published in full in BuzzFeed News; the dossier mentions Alfa Bank's parent company Alfa Group (spelled "Alpha Group" in the dossier). On 10 March, CNN reported that the FBI was continuing to investigate the unusual computer activity between Alfa Bank and the Trump Organization which had occurred in the summer of 2016, and which had been reported in the media just before the U.S. presidential election.Also in March, Alfa Bank was the target of Ukrainian protests. In May, the owners of Alfa Bank filed a defamation lawsuit against BuzzFeed for publishing the unverified Donald Trump–Russia dossier, which alleges financial ties and collusion between Putin, Trump, and Alfa Bank's owners. In June, President Trump nominated Brian Benczkowski, the bank's former attorney, to be United States Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division. In October the owners of Alfa Bank filed a libel suit against Fusion GPS and Glenn Simpson, for circulating the Trump-Russia dossier among journalists and allowing it to be published. In December, Alfa Bank's wholly owned Dutch subsidiary Amsterdam Trade Bank (ATB) was raided in connection to an investigation into possible money-laundering.

•   2018 – In April, the owners of Alfa Bank filed a libel suit against Christopher Steele, creator of the Trump-Russia dossier."

See also:
Title: "Why Mueller Named a Russian Oligarch in Court" byline April 6 2018

https://www.thedailybeast.com/is-muellers-eye-on-some-russian-oligarchs
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #435 on: June 25, 2018, 04:49:14 PM »
SEN. MARK WARNER (D-Va.) hosted a dinner Friday night for more than 100 guests at his house on Martha’s Vineyard as part of the DSCC’S annual Majority Trust retreat. OVERHEARD: Warner, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, joking to the crowd:

 “If you get me one more glass of wine, I’ll tell you stuff only Bob Mueller and I know. If you think you’ve seen wild stuff so far, buckle up. It’s going to be a wild couple of months.”

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2018/06/24/overheard-at-the-dscc-retreat-on-marthas-vineyard-281247

One possible reason that the New York U.S. Attorney’s Office has cancelled the their meeting with Daniels, is that Cohen has cut a plea deal (in exchange for handing over information on Trump), and the feds don't want the Daniels case to interfere with the Mueller investigation.  Maybe, that is some of the 'wild stuff' that Mark Warner is hinting at:

Title: "U.S. prosecutors cancel meeting with Stormy Daniels: lawyer"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-cohen-avenatti/us-prosecutors-cancel-meeting-with-stormy-daniels-lawyer-idUSKBN1JL17D

Extract: "A meeting between adult film actress Stormy Daniels and federal prosecutors in New York investigating President Donald Trump’s longtime personal attorney Michael Cohen scheduled for Monday has been canceled, a lawyer representing Daniels said late on Sunday."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #436 on: June 26, 2018, 03:56:35 AM »
When Trump was planning on granting Assange immunity in 2017, Comey intervened to stop the deal.  Then shortly thereafter Trump fired Comey.  What does Trump have to fear from Assange's potential testimony if Mueller ever gets his hands on Assange?

Title: "How Comey intervened to kill WikiLeaks' immunity deal"

http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/394036-How-Comey-intervened-to-kill-Wikileaks-immunity-deal
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #437 on: June 28, 2018, 10:58:49 PM »
These GOP Representatives on House Judiciary Committee would have fit in well on Joe McCarthy's committee in the 1950s:

Title: "Rod Rosenstein Keeps His Cool As Republicans Lash Out In House Judiciary Hearing"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/rod-rosenstein-house-judiciary-committee_us_5b3503c3e4b0cb5605206a8a

Extract: "Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein deflected heated attacks from Republican lawmakers during a House Judiciary Committee hearing on Thursday.

Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray appeared before the congressional committee to answer questions about their departments’ handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation.

But Republicans spent their time obsessively grilling Rosenstein about special counsel Robert Mueller’s probe into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election and President Donald Trump’s potential attempts to obstruct justice."
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sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #438 on: June 29, 2018, 11:16:43 PM »

TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #439 on: June 30, 2018, 05:59:05 AM »
sidd


What ever happened to those Russian Corporations that unexpectedly decided to defend themselves from Mueller's charges?
IIRC Mueller didn't want to go ahead with those prosecutions, and now he's balking at sentencing Flynn on a charge that Flynn's already plead guilty to.


You'd think that after $17M and over a year getting his ducks in a row he'd be prepared for court.
Terry

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #440 on: June 30, 2018, 02:21:42 PM »
sidd


What ever happened to those Russian Corporations that unexpectedly decided to defend themselves from Mueller's charges?
IIRC Mueller didn't want to go ahead with those prosecutions, and now he's balking at sentencing Flynn on a charge that Flynn's already plead guilty to.


You'd think that after $17M and over a year getting his ducks in a row he'd be prepared for court.
Terry

Could just be that until Flynn is sentenced Muller has leverage.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #441 on: June 30, 2018, 09:16:56 PM »
Could just be that until Flynn is sentenced Muller has leverage.
Exactly.

Funny how that Benghazi Committee wanker (Trey Gowdy) complains about Mueller not being quick enough...
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/29/politics/benghazi-committee-special-counsel-robert-mueller/index.html

sidd

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #442 on: July 01, 2018, 06:10:12 AM »
I think Concord (russian company)  lawyers challenged Mueller appointment. They will get slapped down on that, but the discovery preocess will be interesting ...

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TerryM

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #443 on: July 01, 2018, 02:36:07 PM »
Thanks
It seemed as though the Concord trial(s) were going to be a front page item for some time - then  Mueller tried to halt the trial because of (National Security)? concerns - finally everything dropped from the news cycle, or at least that's the way it appeared to me.


Has the whole Trump/Russia Collusion thing been nothing but an attempt to divert attention from the Clintons own extensive connections to Russian oligarchs?
Terry

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #444 on: July 02, 2018, 03:38:47 AM »
Imagine what will happen if Mueller decides to indict key Team Trump individuals, possibly including Trump himself, after Kennedy steps down, but before a new ninth SCOTUS member is seated.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #445 on: July 02, 2018, 02:35:14 PM »
Has the whole Trump/Russia Collusion thing been nothing but an attempt to divert attention from the Clintons own extensive connections to Russian oligarchs?
Now that is a beautiful quintessence of rightwingnut conspirational ideation and decades of smear propaganda.

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #446 on: July 02, 2018, 03:01:21 PM »
Martin:

I really HAVE been missing out on Terry's posts.  Maybe I should take a Terry off of ignore just so I can get some comic relief.   ;)

So the whole Mueller investigation is to hide the REAL collusion going on with Hillary and the oligarchs?  I'm just wondering if she had enough time to spend with the Oligarchs while running a child sex ring operation out of the Comet pizza parlor during the campaign. 😂
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #447 on: July 02, 2018, 03:26:57 PM »
It seems I missed this one from last March:

Quoth Daily Beast:

‘Lone DNC Hacker’ Guccifer 2.0 Slipped Up and Revealed He Was a Russian Intelligence Officer
(...) But on one occasion, The Daily Beast has learned, Guccifer failed to activate the VPN client before logging on. As a result, he left a real, Moscow-based Internet Protocol address in the server logs of an American social media company, according to a source familiar with the government’s Guccifer investigation. (...)
Working off the IP address, U.S. investigators identified Guccifer 2.0 as a particular GRU officer working out of the agency’s headquarters on Grizodubovoy Street in Moscow. (The Daily Beast’s sources did not disclose which particular officer worked as Guccifer.)

Security firms and declassified U.S. intelligence findings previously identified the GRU as the agency running “Fancy Bear,” the ten-year-old hacking organization behind the DNC email theft, as well as breaches at NATO, Obama’s White House, a French television station, the World Anti-Doping Agency, (...)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclusive-lone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-20-slipped-up-and-revealed-he-was-a-russian-intelligence-officer




AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #448 on: July 02, 2018, 03:34:22 PM »
Cohen lets Trump know that as soon as the DOJ brings criminal charges against him, he is more than likely to flip.  The handwriting is on the wall Mr. President:

Title: "Michael Cohen to Trump: I will flip on you"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2018/07/02/michael-cohen-to-trump-i-will-flip-on-you/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9ccce23e5d75

Extract: "In an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos posted Monday morning, Trump's former lawyer and fixer sent his clearest signal to date that he is prepared to flip on Trump. But while there have certainly been others recently, this one came from the horse's mouth.

“Once I understand what charges might be filed against me, if any at all, I will defer to my new counsel, Guy Petrillo, for guidance,” Cohen said.

Pressed on his past commentary about being willing to do anything for Trump, Cohen again hinted at flipping: “To be crystal clear, my wife, my daughter and my son, and this country have my first loyalty.”

And Cohen's interview came with another big signal: the reported end of a joint agreement between Cohen and Trump's legal team to share information. Such things often preclude a more antagonistic relationship. Michael Flynn's lawyers stopped sharing info with Trump's lawyers shortly before he flipped, for example."

See also:

Title: "EXCLUSIVE: Michael Cohen says family and country, not President Trump, is his 'first loyalty'"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-cohen-family-country-president-trump-loyalty/story?id=56304585
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Mueller Investigation & Cohen Investigation
« Reply #449 on: July 02, 2018, 03:55:46 PM »
In any country that respects the rule of law Trump's SCOTUS pick should recuse him/herself from involvement in any Mueller, or Cohen, related court decisions:

Title: "Blumenthal says Trump's Supreme Court pick "ought to recuse" themselves from Russia decisions"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sen-richard-blumenthal-on-face-the-nation-says-trumps-supreme-court-pick-ought-to-recuse-themselves-from-russia-decisions/
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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