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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2250 on: December 07, 2017, 08:36:48 PM »
“...the price of energy storage, in a survey of large buyers, had hit $209/kWh. Down 24% in a year.”
https://electrek.co/2017/12/07/egeb-first-solar-makes-first-s6-solar-module/


This is what happened to the price of solar- grade silicon when PV took off. It spiked, providing the investment signal, then fell back lower than where it started. Same will happen with lithium, cobalt, etc.
     https://twitter.com/mliebreich/status/938540253228552192
Image below.
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Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2251 on: December 07, 2017, 08:46:41 PM »
Who agrees that the same will happen with lithium, cobalt.....?

Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2252 on: December 07, 2017, 08:55:30 PM »
Because in case of that solar-grade silicon. It's probably about a proces, to make the solar-grade silicon. And as soon that the knowledge to make it spreads across the planet. Than everybody will have it. Because there is plenty of silicon in the earts crust. In the case of lithium and cobalt it's more about having it. You need to have it. For them the danger will come from better technology. But than it has to be better first.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2253 on: December 07, 2017, 09:34:12 PM »
Lithium is very common on Earth as well. Cobalt a bit less, but it's around.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2254 on: December 07, 2017, 10:58:29 PM »
Who agrees that the same will happen with lithium, cobalt.....?

I suspect we may see similar price drops.  Larger volumes of most things (as long as they are not supply limited) tends to lead to economies of scale and dropping prices.  That's very likely to happen with lithium.  Don't know about cobalt. 

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2255 on: December 08, 2017, 09:58:53 PM »
China market: GCL SIT automates PV module production
Quote
Nuying Huang, Taipei; Adam Hwang, DIGITIMES [Friday 8 December 2017]
China-based PV module maker GCL System Integration Technology (GCL SIT) has fully automated one of its PV module factories in Zhangjiagang, which will have an annual production capacity of 200MWp, according to media report in China.

Becoming a smart dark factory via full automation, the PV module factory has managed to reduce the number of its workers from 52 to eight and also lowered its defect rate by 0.1pp, said the report. ...
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20171206PD223.html


Electrek says:  “On one side of the building they have pallets coming in, on the other side they have pallets leaving – drivers manage the product. They shut the lights off inside the building. The only people employed are engineers, robot technicians, and those needed to secure the site. This is the future of manufacturing as a whole, but it’s hitting the solar power industry hard as there is a need to scale quickly and economically.”
https://electrek.co/2017/12/08/egeb-200mw-yr-robotic-solar-factory-panel-prices-falling/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2256 on: December 09, 2017, 12:19:03 AM »
Quote
GCL SIT automates PV module production

And thus ends China's domination of the solar panel market.  They just automated away their low labor cost advantage.  If they can run a plant with no labor then other countries can do the same thing.

Now we're likely to move to panel manufacturing close to where they will be installed in order to lower shipping costs.

crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2257 on: December 09, 2017, 12:52:21 AM »
Quote
GCL SIT automates PV module production

And thus ends China's domination of the solar panel market.  They just automated away their low labor cost advantage.  If they can run a plant with no labor then other countries can do the same thing.

Now we're likely to move to panel manufacturing close to where they will be installed in order to lower shipping costs.

Maybe their cost advantage just changed from low wage cost to know-how so now it will be China opening automated factories in other countries?

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2258 on: December 09, 2017, 01:48:37 AM »
Quote
GCL SIT automates PV module production

And thus ends China's domination of the solar panel market.  They just automated away their low labor cost advantage.  If they can run a plant with no labor then other countries can do the same thing.

Now we're likely to move to panel manufacturing close to where they will be installed in order to lower shipping costs.

Maybe their cost advantage just changed from low wage cost to know-how so now it will be China opening automated factories in other countries?


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numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2259 on: December 09, 2017, 02:05:33 AM »
Quote
GCL SIT automates PV module production

And thus ends China's domination of the solar panel market.  They just automated away their low labor cost advantage.  If they can run a plant with no labor then other countries can do the same thing.

Now we're likely to move to panel manufacturing close to where they will be installed in order to lower shipping costs.

China hasn't had a low labour cost advantage in years. Compared to the US and EU sure, but they're a middle-income country now with a huge middle class. Ten years ago, the iPhone launched, with manufacturing in China because it was a country known for high-quality electronics.

China will continue to dominate solar panels for a good long while because they've got first mover advantage (the first country to take the industry seriously), and they have the biggest market.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2260 on: December 09, 2017, 04:03:35 AM »
While the wage gap has been closing it has not yet closed.

Quote
Chinese factory workers are now getting paid more than ever: Average hourly wages hit $3.60 last year

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/02/27/chinese-wages-rise-made-in-china-isnt-so-cheap-anymore.html



In China it takes 162.28% of the average monthly income to afford a iPhone X.

In the US it takes 19.93% of the average monthly income to make the same purchase.

In India, 925.25%.

https://qz.com/1107116/the-true-cost-of-the-iphone-x-based-on-what-you-actually-earn/

China will probably maintain dominance in panel manufacturing but automation will lead to more onshoring over time.

Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2261 on: December 09, 2017, 02:57:30 PM »
Lithium is very common on Earth as well. Cobalt a bit less, but it's around.

The strange thing is, the lithium price went up 520 % in 12 years. And production in 2010 was 28 000 tonnes, in 2016 it was 35 000 tonnes. That's just a small increase and still a small number. One of the problems is probably that you don't find it in high concentrations.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2262 on: December 09, 2017, 06:37:05 PM »
Lithium is found in very high concentrations. 

Quote
Salar de Uyuni (or Salar de Tunupa) is the world's largest salt flat at 10,582 square kilometers (4,086 sq mi). It is located in the Daniel Campos Province in Potosí in southwest Bolivia

Lithium is concentrated in the brine under the salt crust at a relatively high concentration of about 0.3%.

Wiki

When a new use for a material is found prices can rise.  Production had been scaled for demand before the new use appeared.  Increased demand creates an opportunity to increase asking price - until more production comes online and prices move back down to cost of production plus a reasonable profit.

What is likely to happen is that with a large increase in demand is that we'll see 'economies of scale' developments that will result in lower lithium prices.


Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2263 on: December 09, 2017, 06:46:50 PM »
New monocrystalline black solar panels from LG have 20% efficiency.
(Meaning they look better, and require less space on your roof.)

Flagship residential solar panel from LG breaks 21% efficiency, goes all black
https://electrek.co/2017/12/08/residential-solar-panel-lg-breaks-21-efficiency/
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Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2264 on: December 09, 2017, 10:25:25 PM »

Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2265 on: December 09, 2017, 11:19:25 PM »
How realistic would it be, demand in 8 years of 470 000 tonnes of lithium. That would be like 10 million small Tesla cars a year that have to be sold. Or something like 10 % of todays car sales. And something like a 1000 % increase of Lithium production.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2266 on: December 10, 2017, 03:14:49 AM »
At 20 mg lithium per kg of Earth's crust, lithium is the 25th most abundant element. Nickel and lead have about the same abundance. There are approximately 39 million tonnes of accessible lithium in the Earth’s crust

The original Nissan Leaf contained 4 kg of lithium. Assume we use 3x as much for each EV in the future. 39 million tonnes = 3,250,000,000 EVs.

Western Lithium claims that a recently discovered Humboldt County site's deposits represent the fifth-largest lithium resource in the world. The Nevada Governor's Office of Economic Development says the state's overall lithium portfolio is even bigger.

"Nevada is lithium rich — second only to the size of deposits found in Chile," said Steve Hill, executive director of the Governor's Office of Economic Development.

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/2014/04/06/tesla-factor-recharging-nevadas-lithium-industry/7354627/

A big find was recently announced in Wyoming.  The find could contain as much as 18 million tons of lithium.  That would be enough for 4 billion Nissan Leafs.

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/lithium-discovery-could-be-new-industry-for-wyoming/article_46d9c438-add8-11e2-be38-0019bb2963f4.html

Argentina, Australia, Bolivia, Brazil, Canada, China, Portugal and Zimbabwe have roughly 13 million metric tons of lithium that can be extracted.

Bolivia has 5.4 million of the 13 million tons.

There are approximately 230,000,000,000 tons of lithium in seawater. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium#Terrestrial

jai mitchell

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2267 on: December 10, 2017, 05:13:15 AM »
How realistic would it be, demand in 8 years of 470 000 tonnes of lithium. That would be like 10 million small Tesla cars a year that have to be sold. Or something like 10 % of todays car sales. And something like a 1000 % increase of Lithium production.

Autonomous electric vehicle ride sharing is projected to decrease private vehicle ownership in urban areas between 40-60%.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2268 on: December 10, 2017, 07:48:00 AM »
Urban, suburban, and rural.  And probably more than 60%.

Not overnight but in 30-40 years from now owning one's own car might seem strange.

oren

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2269 on: December 10, 2017, 08:03:41 AM »
According to the smh article, a Tesla model S requires up to 63kg of lithium carbonate.

crandles

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2270 on: December 10, 2017, 12:00:40 PM »
According to the smh article, a Tesla model S requires up to 63kg of lithium carbonate.

Atomic weight of lithium carbonate =74 g/mol (7*2+12+16*3)
Atomic weight of Lithium = 7 g/mol


So about 12kg of lithium.

jai mitchell

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2271 on: December 10, 2017, 04:30:07 PM »
According to the smh article, a Tesla model S requires up to 63kg of lithium carbonate.

Atomic weight of lithium carbonate =74 g/mol (7*2+12+16*3)
Atomic weight of Lithium = 7 g/mol


So about 12kg of lithium.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2272 on: December 10, 2017, 08:03:08 PM »
University campuses seem like a perfect place to install microgrids.  Love the solar over the parking lot!

Tesla wins contract to build 4 MWh Powerpack system at UMass Amherst campus
Quote
... It’s a 1 megawatt/4 megawatt-hour lithium-ion battery storage system using Tesla’s Powerpacks to reduce peak energy demand and help optimize how the campus integrates its current mix of power generation.

UMass already has several solar assets and they plan to use Tesla’s batteries to reduce their reliance on the grid and get more out of their solar arrays.

They have 7 solar installations on rooftops and parking lot canopies – totalling 5.3 MW of capacity: ...
https://electrek.co/2017/12/10/tesla-wins-contract-powerpack-umass-amherst-campus/
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sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2273 on: December 12, 2017, 01:35:06 AM »
Windpower to shift southward: Karnauskas et al. find that windpower in the northern hemisphere will decrease, and may increase in the South, that central US windpowere will decrease in winter and all kinds of interesting things.

doi: 10.1038/s41561-017-0029-9

"Some of the projected regional changes in wind power noted above have a strong seasonal dependence, while others are manifest throughout the year (Supplementary Fig. 7). For example, the projected decreases in the central US, Japan and the horn of Africa occur primarily during boreal winter, the projected increases in eastern Brazil, Madagascar and the southern Arabian Peninsula are much stronger during austral winter, and the projected increases in southern mainland Africa and Southeast Asia are relatively constant throughout the year.

When integrated zonally (along lines of latitude; Fig. 3), a clear and asymmetric dependence on emissions scenario emerges. The total decrease in power across the northern mid-latitudes (30–65° N) is largely insensitive to emissions scenario. In contrast, the total increase across the southern tropical/subtropical band (10–30° S) only emerges under the RCP8.5 scenario. Thus, in a globally integrated sense, the decrease in the Northern Hemisphere is partially balanced by an increase in the Southern Hemisphere, but only under the high greenhouse gas emissions scenario."

They attribute the decrease in the North as caused by decreasing pole to equator temperature difference and increase in the south dues to land-sea warming gradients. I attach fig 3.

sidd



Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2274 on: December 13, 2017, 03:22:26 PM »
Solar, wind and nuclear have ‘amazingly low’ carbon footprints, study finds
Quote
For example, the study finds that 11% of the energy generated by a coal-fired power station is offset by energy needed to build the plant and supply the fuel, as the chart below shows. This is equivalent to saying that one unit of energy invested in coal power yields nine units of electricity.

Nuclear power is twice as good as coal, with the energy embedded in the power plant and fuel offsetting 5% of its output, equivalent to an EROI of 20:1. Wind and solar perform even better, at 2% and 4% respectively, equivalent to EROIs of 44:1 and 26:1. ...
https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-wind-nuclear-amazingly-low-carbon-footprints

Image: Embodied energy use, as a percentage of lifetime electricity production from different sources. The chart shows embodied energy in 2050. Only solar would show a significant change for 2015, Pehl tells Carbon Brief, rising from around 4 to 10%. Source: Pehl et al.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2275 on: December 13, 2017, 04:00:38 PM »
Renewables: “monster,” or art form?  :)

Beverly Neighbors Outraged Over Front Yard Solar Panels
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/12/05/solar-panels-angers-beverly-neighborhood/

Wind Turbines as Artistic Canvas
https://artistsandclimatechange.com/2017/11/21/wind-turbines-as-artistic-canvas/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2276 on: December 13, 2017, 07:24:24 PM »
Major CEOs of power companies have suggested that peaker plants will go away entirely by 2020 in the USA.

Solar + batteries prepping to take over 10GW of US natural gas peaker power plant market
Quote
When NextERA CEO Jim Robo said back in 2015 that there wouldn’t be another peaker plant built after 2020, he was taking a risk when energy storage was more than double today’s current price – and solar was 30-50% higher. Now Mr. Robo looks wise.

In yesterday’s presentation, @shaylekann said that of the 20GW of gas peaker plants that are projected to be built between 2018-2027, 10GW of that market might be consumed by energy storage. Mr. Kahn suggested there’s the possibility that no new peaker plants are built after 2025. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/12/13/solar-batteries-to-take-10gw-natural-gas/


“A report in Minnesota suggested that right now, the net cost of a solar power plus storage power plant is cheaper than a natural gas peaker power plant – as seen in the right two columns in the graph below. In fact, energy storage alone – without the cheap electricity coming from a renewable plant – is almost the same cost as a peaker plant.”
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Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2277 on: December 15, 2017, 11:38:17 AM »
What would be the cost for maintenance for a windturbine ?

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2278 on: December 15, 2017, 12:17:29 PM »
What would be the cost for maintenance for a windturbine ?
The more useful data would be a comparison between maintenance of different forms of power generation, in terms of cost and energy. The most useful data is looking at the full picture from design to decommissioning. I assume the cost bit is done - otherwise no-one could bid for build and supply.

The energy bit is interesting. To switch on a 1kw machine in your house requires 2 to 3 kw of primary energy at the coal or gas powered electricity generator - with corresponding CO2 emissions. If that electricity is from solar or wind generators, the same 2-3 kw more or less applies but without significant CO2 emissions.

As wind / solar takes over from fossil fuels, the CO2 emissions from making something declines. Improving efficiency of electricity generation power plants and transmission then becomes more a matter of cost reduction  and less a matter of reducing CO2 emissions.
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Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2279 on: December 15, 2017, 01:31:23 PM »
Is it not possible to put a number on it ? On google i can find numbers from 7 to 30 % from the energy it produces in a year. And that's a big gap. And some of that information is already a couple years old. But what would be a good number to take if you want to do the investment today ? In some way you have to put a price on it. The price of the turbines is going down for the moment. The price for a turbines from Vestas was 880 000 € in Q3 last year, and it's 800 000 €/ MW in Q3 of this years. That's 2 400 000 € for a 3 MW turbine. In the US the average electricity price is 10,41 cent/kwh. At an average production of 40 %, you have the turbine in 2 years. And lets say another 2 years for all the rest. You need the colom, transformator, you have to pay a crew a couple weeks for the construction, the fundation..... That means the thing is payed after 4 years, and the annual maintenance.

Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2280 on: December 15, 2017, 02:46:30 PM »
What would be the cost for maintenance for a windturbine ?
The more useful data would be a comparison between maintenance of different forms of power generation, in terms of cost and energy. The most useful data is looking at the full picture from design to decommissioning. I assume the cost bit is done - otherwise no-one could bid for build and supply.

The energy bit is interesting. To switch on a 1kw machine in your house requires 2 to 3 kw of primary energy at the coal or gas powered electricity generator - with corresponding CO2 emissions. If that electricity is from solar or wind generators, the same 2-3 kw more or less applies but without significant CO2 emissions.

As wind / solar takes over from fossil fuels, the CO2 emissions from making something declines. Improving efficiency of electricity generation power plants and transmission then becomes more a matter of cost reduction  and less a matter of reducing CO2 emissions.

That's probably not an easy exercise. Because how do you compare ? If you build a gas fired powerplant. It can operate for 60 years. And a windturbine works for 20 years. So to replace a 200 MW powerplant running on gas, you need 420 windturbines. Spread over that 60 years. And the production of the gearbox is probably a big consumer.

ghoti

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2281 on: December 15, 2017, 03:07:57 PM »
How do you compare relative costs of construction and maintenance of different generation systems?

Easy! Look at the price per generated kwh of long term contracted new generation. That price has to cover all costs - materials, construction, maintenance and profit.

Those costs are currently coming in lower for wind than gas generation - Alberta just purchased 600MW of new wind generation at 3.7 cents CDN per kWh. That turns out to be less than new gas generation and one third the price of coal.


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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2282 on: December 15, 2017, 03:18:50 PM »
If you build a gas fired powerplant. It can operate for 60 years. And a windturbine works for 20 years. So to replace a 200 MW powerplant running on gas, you need 420 windturbines. Spread over that 60 years. And the production of the gearbox is probably a big consumer.
The life expectancy of a traditional power plant is not 60 years. The concrete box it sits in may last 100-200 years. The turbines, pumps, furnaces, switching gear etc etc all have varying life expectancies. On average we used to reckon that a for well-managed well-maintained plant 15, maybe 20, years was it before all the guts were replaced - apart from that concrete box.

A mate of mine has just finished some remedial work on a over-worked under-maintained coal-powered plant in the UK to keep it going as back-up until 2025. The 15 years are long passed - and he said "I don't want to be there when they push the ON button".
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 03:24:41 PM by gerontocrat »
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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2283 on: December 15, 2017, 04:59:59 PM »
What would be the cost for maintenance for a windturbine ?

The operating cost for wind farms is about $0.01/kWh.  That's the second lowest opex of all technologies.  Solar is a bit cheaper.  Opex covers maintenance costs.

As turbines get older maintenance costs rise and at some point it's cheaper to repower the wind farm with new turbines than to maintain the old dogs.  The new turbines are likely to produce more electricity since a lot of development has been made over the last 30 years.

We're now replacing the turbines (and shorter towers) at the Altamont Wind farm (outside San Francisco) after 30 years of service.  Rising maintenance costs helped justify the repowering expense.

All technologies (except solar panels?) become more expensive to operate as they age.  France has run into problems with their aging nuclear fleet.  It's costing them a lot of money to keep their reactors running.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2284 on: December 15, 2017, 05:08:21 PM »
Quote
The life expectancy of a traditional power plant is not 60 years. The concrete box it sits in may last 100-200 years.

The average lifespan of a coal plant in the US is 40 years. 

The design life of nuclear plants in the US is 40 years.  With any engineering process one builds extra "strength" as a safety measure.  We're now pushing several of our reactors past their 40th birthday which may mean that we're using up the safety factors.

If that's the case then we can expect maintenance costs to rise significantly.  The materials used to build those reactors were selected to withstand 40 years (plus a little) of radioactivity, hydrogen embrittlement, and thermal stress.  Not 50 years, 60 years or 80 years.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2285 on: December 15, 2017, 05:29:39 PM »
Quote
The life expectancy of a traditional power plant is not 60 years. The concrete box it sits in may last 100-200 years.

The average lifespan of a coal plant in the US is 40 years. 

The design life of nuclear plants in the US is 40 years.  With any engineering process one builds extra "strength" as a safety measure.  We're now pushing several of our reactors past their 40th birthday which may mean that we're using up the safety factors.

If that's the case then we can expect maintenance costs to rise significantly.  The materials used to build those reactors were selected to withstand 40 years (plus a little) of radioactivity, hydrogen embrittlement, and thermal stress.  Not 50 years, 60 years or 80 years.
I said the concrete box might last 100-200 years, but not the generation plant. Please quote the point of the post.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2286 on: December 15, 2017, 07:30:09 PM »
You stated...

Quote
The life expectancy of a traditional power plant is not 60 years.

I gave the number for coal plants.  The lifespan which is "not 60 years".

I'm not so sure about the concrete box in which a nuclear reactor sits staying usable 100 to 200 years.  After long enough it would get too radioactively "hot" to work in the plant.

Alexander555

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2287 on: December 15, 2017, 08:22:45 PM »
What would be the cost for maintenance for a windturbine ?

The operating cost for wind farms is about $0.01/kWh.  That's the second lowest opex of all technologies.  Solar is a bit cheaper.  Opex covers maintenance costs.

As turbines get older maintenance costs rise and at some point it's cheaper to repower the wind farm with new turbines than to maintain the old dogs.  The new turbines are likely to produce more electricity since a lot of development has been made over the last 30 years.

We're now replacing the turbines (and shorter towers) at the Altamont Wind farm (outside San Francisco) after 30 years of service.  Rising maintenance costs helped justify the repowering expense.

All technologies (except solar panels?) become more expensive to operate as they age.  France has run into problems with their aging nuclear fleet.  It's costing them a lot of money to keep their reactors running.


 $ 0,01 /kWh, that is not much. And i think the electricity  price in California is higher than 10,4 cent/kWh. Did production stay the same for 30 years ?
 Strange that the orders with many manufacturers are dropping. Many of them are on the stockmarket, that information is public. Probably because of the oposition from coal/gas/nuclear energy.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2288 on: December 15, 2017, 08:36:32 PM »
Quote
$ 0,01 /kWh, that is not much. And i think the electricity  price in California is higher than 10,4 cent/kWh. Did production stay the same for 30 years ?

I'm not sure what you're asking here. 

California has been moving coal off its grid and replacing it with new NG, wind, and solar.  That's going to cause an upfront price increase.  And a lot of the new installation came before wind and solar became as cheap as they now are.



Quote
Strange that the orders with many manufacturers are dropping.

There's a fair amount of year to year variation.  Look at longer trends and now at what is likely 'noise'. 

For example, coal got some political power in Spain and managed to get "kill solar" legislation enacted which pretty much stopped solar installing for a period of time.  It even resulted in people taking solar panels off their buildings because of enormous taxes on 'harvesting sunshine".

Those people were voted out of office and now Spain is back to installing solar.

Italy went through a period of intentionally lowered solar installation because transmission wasn't keeping up and new solar installations were ending up stranded.  Now they've caught up and solar is picking up against.

Few things run smoothly month after month and year after year.



Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2289 on: December 16, 2017, 01:42:24 AM »
‘World’s First’ Solar-Powered train to begin operation in Australia
Quote
The train was retrofit from a classic passenger train which used to have two diesel engines.  One engine was replaced by electric motors and batteries, and the other engine was kept for balance and as an emergency backup.  It can and will run completely on solar power, even during times of extended cloud cover, but one diesel engine was kept around just in case there’s a failure.

It has a 77kWh battery which is good for a full day’s worth of trips back and forth, and will be charged both by panels on the roof of the train and a 30kW solar array at the station.
...
https://electrek.co/2017/12/14/worlds-first-solar-powered-train-to-begin-operation-in-australia/
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TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2290 on: December 16, 2017, 08:31:57 AM »
I was about to call you out on if being the First Solar Train, when I thought to check my sources.


The Calgary LRT turns out to have been entirely wind powered since 2011, so not a solar system at all.


http://greenergycanada.ca/top-ten-cleantech-highlights-of-calgary-alberta-canada/


Go to #4 for additional information.
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Neven

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2291 on: December 16, 2017, 11:10:34 AM »
That train is awesome. We have train tracks right behind our house, with mostly small trains going by once an hour. I prefer the sound and diesel fumes over what you get when living next to a road, but it'd be cool to have these trains over here as well.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2292 on: December 16, 2017, 02:57:06 PM »
I was about to call you out on if being the First Solar Train, when I thought to check my sources.

...

Terry,

I’m pretty sure that’s why the headline had ‘World’s First’ in quotes. ;D  Blame it on the news release!
Although, there’s a strong Canadian presence amongst the editors at Electrek, so they likely knew about Calgary.  :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2293 on: December 16, 2017, 03:05:22 PM »
“There are tens of thousands of jobs on the line.”

Re the big Tax Reform plan currently being rammed through the U.S. Congress:


Tax Tool Crucial to Wind, Solar Appears Spared in GOP Deal
Quote
A $12 billion tax-equity tool that U.S. wind and solar developers depend on to finance projects appears likely to remain largely intact as part of the sweeping reform that Republicans were negotiating Thursday.

A tentative compromise would preserve most, but likely not all, of the value of renewable energy tax credits that developers sell to JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America Corp. and other large financial institutions, said Senator John Thune, the chamber’s No. 3 Republican. Those credits are threatened by a provision in the Senate bill that would impose a minimum tax on foreign transactions, reducing the need for companies to buy credits.
...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-12-14/deal-reached-to-shield-renewables-from-tax-change-thune-says


Electrek says:
“So it appears the US Senate wants to alter a proposed tax structure in order to protect wind and solar deals. I’m betting the banks on the list below who are heavily invested in renewable technologies all had some influence in protecting wind and solar power. Has the renewable energy industry gained official clout? Straight up bankers defending the field.”
https://electrek.co/2017/12/15/egeb-us-solar-slowing/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2294 on: December 16, 2017, 05:06:39 PM »
Not only banks but several 'red' Midwestern states that have large numbers of wind turbines now creating jobs and providing tax revenues at the county and state level.

It looks like renewables are getting large enough to swing some political power on a federal level.  We've already seen signs of that at the state level.

Neven

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2295 on: December 16, 2017, 09:13:18 PM »
It looks like renewables are getting large enough to swing some political power on a federal level.  We've already seen signs of that at the state level.

It will be interesting to see, 40-50 years from now, how wind and solar set up astroturf organisations and think tanks to delay fusion for as long as possible.  ;) :D
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SteveMDFP

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2296 on: December 16, 2017, 09:29:40 PM »
It looks like renewables are getting large enough to swing some political power on a federal level.  We've already seen signs of that at the state level.

It will be interesting to see, 40-50 years from now, how wind and solar set up astroturf organisations and think tanks to delay fusion for as long as possible.  ;) :D

Fusion power is just a couple of decades away from powering our country, and has been so for 50 years.

Fusion is the power of the future, and always will be.    ;)

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2297 on: December 16, 2017, 11:22:11 PM »
Let's hear it for the future: Ra Ra Ra!
Then there are those who fear there will be no future.  :'(

I'll only be 102 in 40 years; I'd like to see what comes to pass.
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sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2298 on: December 17, 2017, 12:16:02 AM »

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2299 on: December 18, 2017, 02:59:07 AM »
We installed 100 GW of fusion generation capacity this year.

The reactor came online 4.5 billion years ago.