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numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2600 on: April 14, 2018, 12:13:35 AM »
Same question for a PV inverter. How much consumption when there is no PV production ?

Thanks,

Etienne

The one I’m buying claims less than a watt on standby.
http://www.fronius.com/en-ca/canada/photovoltaics/products/all-products/inverters/fronius-primo/fronius-primo-3-8-1-208-240

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2601 on: April 14, 2018, 12:27:30 AM »
How much power to keep the batteries alive in winter: these guys claim 3% per month.

https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb100

So if you turn the batteries off for six months, you lose maybe 20% of the charge. You do likely want to keep the batteries from freezing, is the only thing, and that may take some power.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 04:48:22 AM by numerobis »

ghoti

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2602 on: April 14, 2018, 01:46:00 AM »
Inverters use very little on standby. My system has 32 micro-inverters and they consume a total of 8kWh per year which works out to slightly less than a watt.

The bizarre thing to me is my LDC required a bi-directional meter on the PV system so they could charge me for the electricity consumed. No idea how many years the watt of consumption will take to pay for the meter.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2018, 01:58:36 AM by ghoti »

etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2603 on: April 14, 2018, 08:14:27 AM »
Thanks for the info. It's very interesting.

Etienne

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2604 on: April 15, 2018, 04:23:27 AM »
I’ve seen battery inverters on the market that draw 1A (12 W) all the time, regardless of load. Pay a few extra dollars for a combined inverter-charger and it’ll figure this out.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2605 on: April 15, 2018, 05:06:57 AM »
I'm not a fan of combined charger/inverters.  My built in charger failed.  Pulling down the entire unit and shipping off for repair would have been difficult and expensive not to mention being without electricity for several days.

I bought an external charger.  And a second one as a backup.  And a cheap modified square wave inverter that's large enough to run refer, lights and computer if the big inverter fails.


numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2606 on: April 15, 2018, 01:45:55 PM »
You could build a charger/inverter from parts, but you need to get a controller for the whole thing that turns the inverter on and off as needed. Otherwise the inverters I was seeing all drew quite a bit of power even when not on battery power.

But anyway, overall it’s oossible to use very little overhead as long as you get electronics with standby modes.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2607 on: April 15, 2018, 05:17:03 PM »
U.S.

“Ninety-nine percent of wind projects are in rural areas, and over 70 percent of the installed capacity is installed in low-income counties.”

Workers are climbing wind turbines to the middle class
Community colleges — and at least one high school — are starting programs to train students for these in-demand occupations.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/workers-are-climbing-wind-turbines-middle-class-n865221
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2608 on: April 15, 2018, 09:54:07 PM »
You could build a charger/inverter from parts, but you need to get a controller for the whole thing that turns the inverter on and off as needed. Otherwise the inverters I was seeing all drew quite a bit of power even when not on battery power.

But anyway, overall it’s oossible to use very little overhead as long as you get electronics with standby modes.

Inverters and charge controllers are entirely separate devices.  They do not interact.  Charge controllers compare the potential voltage of panels (or generator/turbine) to the charge voltage of the batteries and determine whether to connect panels/generator to batteries or not.  Inverters take battery DC and convert it to AC.

Some people have had trouble with some appliances when their inverters on standby.  Some timers pull so little power that the inverter doesn't detect their presence.  Some bread maker and washing machine electronics have fried when the inverter was used on standby.  There have been problems with some gas ranges as well.  Possibly the oven timers?

Just a head's up.


numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2609 on: April 16, 2018, 04:50:57 AM »
If you buy the parts separately, it's true, they don't interact. If you buy an integrated device, they do interact via a microcontroller that does some logic, depending on the power source.

For backup, they monitor the grid input and put out power steadily, but switch from grid to battery in about 1 cycle if the grid goes wonky (high or low frequency or voltage), then transfer back when the grid gets back to normal.

For self-consumption, they monitor solar panel input (or whatever generation you have) and add or subtract battery power as needed, and potentially switch back to the grid (if there's a grid).

In all cases they avoid energizing parts of the system that don't need to be energized depending on the system state. In particular, they put the inverter on standby when it's not in use.

I see all sorts of horror stories on the web from people buying parts and wiring them together. Seems like the integrated units get more integration testing to help avoid those problems.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2610 on: April 16, 2018, 05:33:58 AM »
Ah, we're not talking about the same thing.  I'm talking off grid and you're talking grid connected.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2611 on: April 16, 2018, 02:34:35 PM »
Not necessarily.

I suspect the difference is that after decades of off-grid equipment being targeted at technical companies and live-off-the-landers and preppers, suddenly they're designing for a larger market — idiots who own homes.

You can still buy batteries where you’re supposed to test each cell every quarter and add electrolyte if they’re low, and carefully choose each part of your electrical system. But now you can also buy the Tesla Powerwall and equivalent, which is a piece of furniture in the corner of the garage that you’re kind of supposed to forget exists after the first few months of use.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2612 on: April 16, 2018, 06:36:42 PM »
If one is offgrid - no grid connection available - what benefit is there in communication between battery charger and inverter?

ghoti

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2613 on: April 16, 2018, 07:50:08 PM »
If one is offgrid - no grid connection available - what benefit is there in communication between battery charger and inverter?
I'd say you can make the case if you are interested in fancy optimization when there are multiple timing and usage possibilities. Something like when is it best to use the power directly or charge the car or charge the house battery or use the car battery to supplement the house battery to run the house.

Clearly this is much less of an issue when off grid compared to say gird connected to to a utility with different time of use rates but still might be desirable.

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2614 on: April 16, 2018, 08:09:35 PM »
The following is a comment I sent in response to an article I read at another site:
I live in a 1300 sqft home at about 44 degrees north. The home is “off grid” 5.4 kw pv. We have a dishwasher and the fridge has an ice maker. the Hot water is demand gas fired and the stove and dryer are as well. We use wood fire for heat and as such we burn less than two cords of wood per year. Gas consumption is about 700 litres per year. The battery bank is 8 200 amp hour lead acid. The inverter is an Outback 8kw 240vac. The whole system cost $24,000.00 Canadian. We have a gas fired generator as back up. We’ve been off grid for 11 years and so far the only issue has been a replacement battery bank, the cost of which,(approx. $3000.00) was figured in at the start. I don’t have a meter to be able to give you our daily electrical demand but going in I’ve calculated it at around 4kwh. We do our laundry and run the dish washer on sunny afternoons and have been stumbling along nicely. I would never go back to the grid as we watch the power outages happen more often due in part to increased weather severity. I suspect the lack of preventative maintenance in order to pay higher dividends has as much to do with that as the deteriorating weather. The problem with the calculations that are done for articles such as the above is it is always done for the way power is used in existing situations. Efficiency has to be taken into account if this is to work. Mostly the only take away I get from such articles is the amount of waste that is considered “normal”. If you were to run an on grid home as we do the fee the power company charges for reading the meter would be the biggest part of the bill. Convenience=waste. Laziness really, why should anything be inconvenient. Less energy required to run your life = less money needed = less time at a daily job = more time at home. What kind of slave are you?

p.s. forgot to add the original comment was made here:
http://energyskeptic.com/2018/want-to-go-off-grid-you-might-need-hundreds-of-tesla-batteries/
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 08:25:30 PM by Red »

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2615 on: April 16, 2018, 08:20:16 PM »
If one is offgrid - no grid connection available - what benefit is there in communication between battery charger and inverter?
I'd say you can make the case if you are interested in fancy optimization when there are multiple timing and usage possibilities. Something like when is it best to use the power directly or charge the car or charge the house battery or use the car battery to supplement the house battery to run the house.

Clearly this is much less of an issue when off grid compared to say gird connected to to a utility with different time of use rates but still might be desirable.

That's all stuff at the inverter level.  My inverter has voltage controlled relays.  I could use one to trigger the start of EV charging when the house batteries are full, for example.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2616 on: April 16, 2018, 08:29:44 PM »
Red - That parallels my experience.  I've got a smaller array (1.2 kW) and don't have some of the dishwasher/ice maker stuff. 

Water gets pumped on sunny days to tanks located 80' higher than the house and gravity feeds back to the house, garden and orchard.  Washing machine, large woodworking tools, and vacuum cleaner take a vacation during cloudy stretches.

I'm hoping to get a larger array installed this year.  I'd like to produce enough extra to charge an EV and to largely eliminate my need for generator backup.

My system cost about $10k 15 years ago, including a (now defunct) diesel generator.  I paid $4/watt for some second-owner panels.  Someone had bought them as part of their survival plan for the collapse to be caused by the calendar reading 1/1/2000.  They had never been installed.  Current panel price at the time was $8/watt.

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2617 on: April 16, 2018, 09:30:29 PM »
If one is offgrid - no grid connection available - what benefit is there in communication between battery charger and inverter?

About 10-20W round-tripping through your batteries all day.

Much like with a lot of other efficiency gains on big appliances, it's not worth changing anything if you already have your kit. But if you're installing new then of course you'd take the gain.

Quote
Current panel price at the time was $8/watt.

Wow. I'm getting them at CAD 0.83/W this summer (about USD 0.66/W). All the parts including the inverter are coming in at $1.50/W.

Red: with today's pricing you'd be able to replace that lead-acid bank with lithium for the same total cost. Or you could buy a couple Tesla Powerwalls and get far more storage for less price (but then you're required to hire someone to install).

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2618 on: April 16, 2018, 09:38:28 PM »
Energy won't flow into the batteries unless there's more energy being created than the inverter is demanding. 

I bought some Trojan REs a few years back.  They should be good for more than five more years.  By then I expect to be able to pick lithium storage solutions from a number of suppliers. 

Red

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2619 on: April 16, 2018, 09:40:38 PM »
Bob- Today its been cloudy all day with rain forecast for tonight. To spite the clouds we've made 7.2 kWh's with approximately 3 hours of good daylight left. The two Outback flex max 60's(pv charge controllers) are running at float, so the bank is at full charge. We bought a high end propane generator so as to take advantage of the tanks that we needed anyway for the other major appliances. This was over the cost of the system. Most folks around here have a generator as well due to power outages. We had a 1kw turbine originally and 1.5kw pv. The math said that the turbine would do the job alone. Ha, mother nature didn't take math apparently! I was warned that pv was the crack cocaine of the "off grid" world. Close, but you can get enough pv eventually. I have bought all my dcv side of this system for a local dealer of the following site. This site has a tremendous amount of good info for those who wish to go grid tied or completely off grid, or just daydreaming of it!  http://aeesolar.com/design/

numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2620 on: April 16, 2018, 09:52:34 PM »
Energy won't flow into the batteries unless there's more energy being created than the inverter is demanding. 

I bought some Trojan REs a few years back.  They should be good for more than five more years.  By then I expect to be able to pick lithium storage solutions from a number of suppliers.

Hmm... you're right. I wasn't paying close enough attention to remember the claimed savings accurately (or it's a bogus claim).

I'm hoping DIY lithium falls below C$1/Wh next year. Powerwall is C$0.60/Wh, but you can't DIY it. Hopefully there'll be competition.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2621 on: April 16, 2018, 10:07:02 PM »
Quote
Today its been cloudy all day with rain forecast for tonight. To spite the clouds we've made 7.2 kWh's with approximately 3 hours of good daylight left.

You've got a 5.4 kW array?  Can you tell how many kWhs you make per hour in the middle of the day on a cloudy day?  Obviously there are cloudy days and cloudy days, but on the sort of days where it's not so dark that you feel like turning on the lights inside.

Right now I generate enough on cloudy/rainy/snowy days to power my refer, two computers and stereo when the Sun is up.  But not enough to put away power for the evening and night.  I'm thinking that if I had about 3x as many panels I could keep myself supplied on a day like today (snowy) and then charge an EV and do water pumping/laundry/etc. on the sunny days.

Red

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2622 on: April 16, 2018, 10:36:50 PM »
Quote
Today its been cloudy all day with rain forecast for tonight. To spite the clouds we've made 7.2 kWh's with approximately 3 hours of good daylight left.

You've got a 5.4 kW array?  Can you tell how many kWhs you make per hour in the middle of the day on a cloudy day?  Obviously there are cloudy days and cloudy days, but on the sort of days where it's not so dark that you feel like turning on the lights inside.

Right now I generate enough on cloudy/rainy/snowy days to power my refer, two computers and stereo when the Sun is up.  But not enough to put away power for the evening and night.  I'm thinking that if I had about 3x as many panels I could keep myself supplied on a day like today (snowy) and then charge an EV and do water pumping/laundry/etc. on the sunny days.

Okay here goes. I'm less than articulate in this so I can tell you that right now at 5:15 pm local time I presently have .540 kws (540 watts) coming in to the bank and according to the display screen on the inverter the demand is less than 200 watts. The most I've seen coming down from the roof has been 4700 watts. My roof is not optimal slope for winter, it's 30.25 degrees, (7/12 pitch). I can presently see the orb through the clouds but it is not casting a noticeable shadow. I have two charge controllers because they don't recognize wattage above 3000 watts. So I've divided the panels into two groups. The larger of the two is pulling in 106.1 volts 2.3 amps. The controllers are charging a 48vdc bank so they convert the extra voltage to amperage hence out to the bank goes 54.4 volts 4.7 amps. Not sure if this helps or not.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2623 on: April 17, 2018, 07:29:19 AM »
Quote

A small island in the Pacific Ocean is the site of a huge discovery that could change Japan's economic future.

....

It's mud. A whole bunch of mud -- an estimated 16 million tons, to be exact. And in that mud, there are massive, "semi-infinite" stores of valuable rare earth minerals.

....

The 16 million tons of materials could contain 780 years worth of yttrium, 620 years worth of europium, 420 years worth of terbium, and 730 years worth of dysprosium. In other words, according to the paper, it "has the potential to supply these materials on a semi-infinite basis to the world."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/16/asia/japan-rare-earth-metals-find-china-economy-trnd/index.html

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2624 on: April 17, 2018, 07:49:47 AM »
I hope that there are no other claims of ownership on that tiny spot of land.
Terry
edit
Seems like a clear title!  :)
Only the future will tell. :(
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 07:55:28 AM by TerryM »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2625 on: April 19, 2018, 06:20:50 PM »
Despite Puero Rico’s recent “island-wide black out,“ Tesla tweets they have installed hundreds of battery and solar projects supplying energy.

“We currently have over 1,000 Tesla batteries on the ground in Puerto Rico delivering power at 662 locations. We’re working around the clock to quickly build more projects to support the island ”
https://twitter.com/Tesla/status/986760828882792448
Images below.

Quote
As we previously reported, some of those locations include very critical services.

For example, Tesla deployed a series of Powerpack systems on the Puerto Rican islands of Vieques and Culebra for a sanitary sewer treatment plant, the Arcadia water pumping station, the Ciudad Dorada elderly community, the Susan Centeno hospital, and the Boys and Girls Club of Vieques.

Furthermore, the automaker’s energy division also deployed a solar+battery system at a hospital in Puerto Rico. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/04/18/tesla-powerwall-powerpack-puerto-rico-blackout-elon-musk/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2626 on: April 19, 2018, 06:37:00 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?

Seems like they will need some strong fences to keep critters from walking on the panels.

DrTskoul

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2627 on: April 19, 2018, 06:47:52 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?

Seems like they will need some strong fences to keep critters from walking on the panels.

And some strong herbicides to keep plant growth from covering them...

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2628 on: April 19, 2018, 06:50:32 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?

Seems like they will need some strong fences to keep critters from walking on the panels.

And some strong herbicides to keep plant growth from covering them...

Weed eater, Dr. Negative

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2629 on: April 19, 2018, 07:42:29 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?

Seems like they will need some strong fences to keep critters from walking on the panels.

And some strong herbicides to keep plant growth from covering them...

NO, Dr. Tskoul!!! Guys and Gals with machetes and it goes into the composter to improve soil condition on their market gardens. Since Uncle Sam abandoned them and their economy something to eat is always welcome (no money for US imports in the supermarket).
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2630 on: April 19, 2018, 07:54:20 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?

Seems like they will need some strong fences to keep critters from walking on the panels.

And some strong herbicides to keep plant growth from covering them...

Goats....
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2631 on: April 19, 2018, 08:13:59 PM »
Goats will eat the greenery and jump on the panels. Win one; lose one. 
I have friends who won't let their goats be in the field with the solar panels, and the lower edge of their panels are about half a meter above the ground.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things because "we cannot negotiate with the melting point of ice"

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2632 on: April 19, 2018, 09:12:13 PM »
Goats will eat the greenery and jump on the panels. Win one; lose one. 
I have friends who won't let their goats be in the field with the solar panels, and the lower edge of their panels are about half a meter above the ground.

Sheep? ;D
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numerobis

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2633 on: April 19, 2018, 09:28:06 PM »
Siedler von Catan: Energiewende. I'll give you three sheep for three solar panels and an inverter.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2634 on: April 19, 2018, 09:45:02 PM »
Rabbits.  Let them graze down the vegetation and then eat those tasty little bunnies.

https://www.allrecipes.com/recipes/16356/meat-and-poultry/game-meats/rabbit/

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2635 on: April 19, 2018, 09:50:44 PM »
An Amish (?!) farner who has several acres of solar panels told me that goats destrol the panels and chew thru wiring. He does sheep instead ...

sidd

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2636 on: April 20, 2018, 04:26:09 AM »
Sheep? Baa


Rabbits if the wiring can be kept secure in EMT conduit. For a permanent installation underground conduit might save a lot of maintenance.
After 5 years or so the ground might grow great vegetables - after all the bunnies were eaten.


How many hours of electricity are the present Power Walls providing? How long can that sewage plant run before backup power or a live grid is required?
Terry

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2637 on: April 20, 2018, 04:39:32 AM »
From what I've seen when the wire leaves the rack it goes underground.  Don't want it being run over by equipment and tripping workers.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2638 on: April 20, 2018, 04:50:41 AM »
From what I've seen when the wire leaves the rack it goes underground.  Don't want it being run over by equipment and tripping workers.


Good!
The only huge installation I ever saw was ~5 feet above ground and tracked the sun. The wiring was strung at the same height as the panels.
The day I was there a large herd of pronghorn antelope were dashing, and crashing about - possibly the reason it was nowhere to be found a few years later.
Terry

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2639 on: April 20, 2018, 05:03:23 PM »
Interesting.  The way Tesla is installing panels.  On the ground lowers damage from strong wind?  East/west orientation lengthens the solar day?
Est/West orientation is very interesting. Even if you get less current at noon, you get more in the morning and in the evening. Porto Rico is also in the tropical area, it's not so important anymore to be south oriented.

ghoti

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2640 on: April 20, 2018, 05:24:46 PM »
East/west orientation allows you to better size the inverter. Reducing the sharp midday peak which would either over-saturate the inverter or require over-sizing it.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2641 on: April 20, 2018, 06:24:59 PM »
Good point about E/W mounting being better closer to the equator.  That's assuming a roof mount when the panels can't be tilted toward the south (or north if in the southern hemisphere).

For utility solar single-axis trackers add ~10% to the cost and probably produce more total electricity than an E/W fixed mount.  You'd have to angle the fixed panels a lot to kick in as strong as a tracker that can aim right at the horizon and then you probably would be giving up more power at noon.

etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2642 on: April 20, 2018, 07:57:51 PM »
One of the weak points of the trackers is spare parts availability when they are 10 years old or more. It's always possible to keep them south oriented if you can't follow the sun anymore. We have similar issues with old PV infrastructure, but there you can always rebuilt a system with what's left and inverters can always be replaced. I don't know the details, just the conclusions regarding a specific older PV infrastructure.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2643 on: April 20, 2018, 09:08:30 PM »
One of the weak points of the trackers is spare parts availability when they are 10 years old or more. It's always possible to keep them south oriented if you can't follow the sun anymore. We have similar issues with old PV infrastructure, but there you can always rebuilt a system with what's left and inverters can always be replaced. I don't know the details, just the conclusions regarding a specific older PV infrastructure.

I would think that as we move from a relatively few farms using tracking to hundreds/thousands of farms replacement parts would not be a problem.  Warehouse enough spares to last a few years and then do another manufacturing run if those get used up.  That's how we do it with cars.

It does sometimes does not make economic sense to remanufacture for low volume use.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2644 on: April 21, 2018, 01:34:14 AM »
Only utilities are permitted to sell electricity in Florida, which prevented solar panel leases, until now.

Florida Ruling Allows Sunrun To Lease Rooftop Solar Equipment To Homeowners
Quote
The Florida Public Service Commission (PSC) has issued a declaratory statement that affirms Sunrun Inc. can offer residential solar equipment leases in Florida.

After reviewing Sunrun’s draft lease agreement, commissioners determined that the company’s 20-year solar equipment lease is not a retail sale of electricity. ...
https://solarindustrymag.com/florida-ruling-allows-sunrun-to-lease-rooftop-solar-equipment-to-homeowners
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

gerontocrat

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2645 on: April 25, 2018, 12:36:31 AM »
Rick Perry trumpeting solar energy? What's going on (playing both sides?)

Quote
U.S. Secretary of Energy Rick Perry Announces $105 Million in New Funding to Advance Solar Technologies
APRIL 17, 2018

DOE to focus on early-stage research to improve the affordability, flexibility, and performance of solar technologies on the grid
WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Secretary of Energy Rick Perry announced up to $105.5 million to support America’s continued leadership in energy innovation through solar technology. Under the Department of Energy’s (DOE’s) Solar Energy Technologies Office (SETO), DOE will fund about 70 projects to advance both solar photovoltaic (PV) and concentrating solar thermal power (CSP) technologies, as well as facilitate the secure integration of those technologies into the nation’s electricity grid. Funding will also support efforts that prepare the workforce for the solar industry’s future needs.

“American ingenuity is the engine of our energy economy,” said Secretary Perry. “Investing in all of our abundant energy sources, including solar technologies, will help to drive down costs and ensure that the nation leads the world in energy production and innovation.”
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2646 on: April 25, 2018, 12:41:21 AM »
Rick Perry trumpeting solar energy? What's going on (playing both sides?)
...

Wow.  Who or what smacked him upside the head?  :o 
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2647 on: April 25, 2018, 12:58:21 AM »
Perry seems to be more practical when it comes to energy than most other Republicans.  He's long supported wind in Texas and has seen the advantages up close.  The move to solar isn't hard once you've dropped your "No RE" shield a little.

Perry will continue to give coal, oil, and nuclear lip service and, perhaps, some support.  But I think he understands where the world is going.  He's kind of stupid, but not that stupid.

TerryM

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2648 on: April 25, 2018, 02:01:59 AM »
Perry seems to be more practical when it comes to energy than most other Republicans.  He's long supported wind in Texas and has seen the advantages up close.  The move to solar isn't hard once you've dropped your "No RE" shield a little.

Perry will continue to give coal, oil, and nuclear lip service and, perhaps, some support.  But I think he understands where the world is going. He's kind of stupid, but not that stupid.
Isn't he the one that had all Texans praying for rain, just before the last major drought?
Is $1.05M really that much of a federal program?
Terry

etienne

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Re: Renewable Energy
« Reply #2649 on: April 25, 2018, 06:46:47 AM »
Praying for rain reminds me of a good book :
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Novel-Penguin-Classics/dp/0143039644

When you do politics, you have to adapt yourself to your public.