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Lurk

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Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethical Responsibility
aka The role humans should play in oversight - the dangers when some humans 'play God'.

Exploring new ideas, new approaches, new technologies—the edge of change. Future Tense analyses the social, cultural and economic fault lines arising from rapid transformation.

The role of humans in the technological age Audio
Forget the humans versus machine dichotomy. Our relationship with technology is far more complicated than that. To understand AI, first we need to appreciate the role humans play in shaping it – for good and bad. This panel discussion was recorded at the 2018 Byron Writers Festival.
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/the-role-of-humans-in-the-technological-age/10079182

Coincidentally, this fits quite nicely into the Frankenstein story and it's relationship with Science plus ethics and philosophy.

Frankenstein - It’s alive!!!
Two hundred years ago a young woman aged just 18 published a book about a monster: Mary Shelley had written Frankenstein. But it was much more than a brilliant yarn, Frankenstein created a new form of science fiction, responding to the recent revolution in scientific investigation and musing on the nature of life and creative morality.

The Science Show presents two remarkable interpretations of the Frankenstein story - the late Marilyn Butler of Exeter College, Oxford tells of Shelley’s family and the impact of the book and the plays back then; then Suzanne Burdon, who wrote a novel about Mary Shelley, Almost Invincible, explores what we now know of the significance of Frankenstein and how it transverses debates on the future of research.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/it%E2%80%99s-alive!!!/10107614
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2018, 05:21:29 PM »
I like this guys point of view. Pretty funny but sometimes depressing too.
His explanation of how machine learning algorithms are trained was the best part. There is also a clear connection to how combining ML/AI and the internet is a really bad idea for society.

Quote
Q: Why Do Keynote Speakers Keep Suggesting That Improving Security Is Possible?
A: Because Keynote Speakers Make Bad Life Decisions and Are Poor Role Models

James Mickens, Harvard University
Quote
Some people enter the technology industry to build newer, more exciting kinds of technology as quickly as possible. My keynote will savage these people and will burn important professional bridges, likely forcing me to join a monastery or another penance-focused organization. In my keynote, I will explain why the proliferation of ubiquitous technology is good in the same sense that ubiquitous Venus weather would be good, i.e., not good at all. Using case studies involving machine learning and other hastily-executed figments of Silicon Valley’s imagination, I will explain why computer security (and larger notions of ethical computing) are difficult to achieve if developers insist on literally not questioning anything that they do since even brief introspection would reduce the frequency of git commits. At some point, my microphone will be cut off, possibly by hotel management, but possibly by myself, because microphones are technology and we need to reclaim the stark purity that emerges from amplifying our voices using rams’ horns and sheets of papyrus rolled into cone shapes. I will explain why papyrus cones are not vulnerable to buffer overflow attacks, and then I will conclude by observing that my new start-up papyr.us is looking for talented full-stack developers who are comfortable executing computational tasks on an abacus or several nearby sticks.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2018, 09:11:54 PM »
I assume most of the users of this web site rely on search engines to research science and climate topics. There is a rising outcry from political factions that the search engines results are biased. There is legislation being drafted in Washington that would regulate this technology.
Auto-complete uses AI to rank suggested words or phrases for users who manually key in search terms. Some people think search engines are biased based on the suggested search term.

Larry Kudlow said Pres. Trump is considering 'something'.
One of the companies, Google, has responded today:
Quote
The tech giant said that it does not bias its “results toward any political ideology.”
“When users type queries into the Google Search bar, our goal is to make sure they receive the most relevant answers in a matter of seconds,” a Google spokesperson said in a statement.
“Search is not used to set a political agenda and we don’t bias our results toward any political ideology,” the statement continues. “Every year, we issue hundreds of improvements to our algorithms to ensure they surface high-quality content in response to users’ queries. We continually work to improve Google Search and we never rank search results to manipulate political sentiment.”

Too many idiots don't know how to use a search engine.

Maybe what is needed is a "License to Search" kind of like drivers license for a car or a gun permit?
(Where "License" is a cookie/digital token)
No license and your search is directed to the Library of Congress or Wikipedia or some neutral knowledge base.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2018, 10:45:07 PM »
Another consideration on this topic is that by 2030 China plans to gain technological dominance in AI systems.  Thus, it is important to consider the ethics of the Chinese Communist Party regarding this threads subject.  While I do not fully support all of the philosophical slants in the linked Bloomberg article, I do think that it summarizes many key issues about China & its fragilities (such as the need to currently employ widespread use of a facial recognition system on its citizens [see the attached image] in order to better control internal opposition).  Also, I note that in many of my Replies in the 'Adapting to Anthropocene' thread I have noted that I suspect that Chinese culture is probably better suited to a modern form of information driven Technocracy that advanced AI will probably make practicable to implement.

Title: "What Does a Chinese Superpower Look Like? Nothing Like the U.S."

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-27/what-does-a-chinese-superpower-look-like-nothing-like-the-u-s

Extract: "Spending for diplomatic service is up sharply. Xi’s “Made in China 2025” economic project aims to displace the U.S. as the world’s technological power, while another plan calls for dominance in Artificial Intelligence by 2030.

The country raised defense spending from $21 billion in 1990 to $228 billion last year, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, more than three times Russia’s budget. The ease with which it did so—the military’s share of overall government spending actually fell—suggests China can be any kind of power it wants."

Already there are signs a Chinese model for development, based on an authoritarian political system and state-directed market economy, could gain traction against the more liberal ideals long promoted by the U.S. and post-war institutions like the International Monetary Fund. Some countries, including Cambodia, now follow Beijing’s direction, attracted by China’s deep pockets.

Still, Beijing’s crackdown on free speech and other social liberties doesn’t suggest a self-confident regime. A budding trade war with the U.S. has helped shave about 20 percent off Chinese equities since January, triggering a domestic debate over whether Xi has already overreached by bidding so openly to challenge the U.S."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2018, 10:58:57 PM »
I assume most of the users of this web site rely on search engines to research science and climate topics. There is a rising outcry from political factions that the search engines results are biased. There is legislation being drafted in Washington that would regulate this technology.
Auto-complete uses AI to rank suggested words or phrases for users who manually key in search terms. Some people think search engines are biased based on the suggested search term.

Larry Kudlow said Pres. Trump is considering 'something'.
One of the companies, Google, has responded today:
Quote
The tech giant said that it does not bias its “results toward any political ideology.”
“When users type queries into the Google Search bar, our goal is to make sure they receive the most relevant answers in a matter of seconds,” a Google spokesperson said in a statement.
“Search is not used to set a political agenda and we don’t bias our results toward any political ideology,” the statement continues. “Every year, we issue hundreds of improvements to our algorithms to ensure they surface high-quality content in response to users’ queries. We continually work to improve Google Search and we never rank search results to manipulate political sentiment.”

Too many idiots don't know how to use a search engine.

Maybe what is needed is a "License to Search" kind of like drivers license for a car or a gun permit?
(Where "License" is a cookie/digital token)
No license and your search is directed to the Library of Congress or Wikipedia or some neutral knowledge base.
For what it is worth, as a follow-on to my last post; if geopolitically speaking, the Chinese Communist Party is viewed as the left end of authoritarian rule; I believe that the international mafia brotherhood of right end Autocracies (such as promoted by Trump, Putin, etc) are working hard to use AI to promote right-wing authoritarian rule (as illustrated by Russia's alleged use of ML/AI to spam the 2016 election).  Certainly, I see the Trump Administrations threat control private search engines as a step in that direction, as I see any potential licensing of the right to search on the internet.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2018, 12:12:38 AM »

Too many idiots don't know how to use a search engine.

Maybe what is needed is a "License to Search" kind of like drivers license for a car or a gun permit?
(Where "License" is a cookie/digital token)
No license and your search is directed to the Library of Congress or Wikipedia or some neutral knowledge base.
For what it is worth, as a follow-on to my last post; if geopolitically speaking, the Chinese Communist Party is viewed as the left end of authoritarian rule; I believe that the international mafia brotherhood of right end Autocracies (such as promoted by Trump, Putin, etc) are working hard to use AI to promote right-wing authoritarian rule (as illustrated by Russia's alleged use of ML/AI to spam the 2016 election).  Certainly, I see the Trump Administrations threat control private search engines as a step in that direction, as I see any potential licensing of the right to search on the internet.

Thanks for the Bloomberg story. I read it earlier. Watching China(and the rest of the non-English world) is like trying to see an elephant through a straw.
Let me rephrase my comment about creating a search license. Lets call it a Diploma. ;D
A free multi-part training program (assisted by a AI tutor of course) that would equip the naive citizen with the knowledge of how to operate these exascale information systems. Probably a good idea on it's own if you can grok the concept of the 'information hi-way' you might like the users to know how to drive on it.
By the way, have you noticed there are a more filter options on the big search engines?
I'm still learning how to operate the new natural language Google Talk to Books search engine.
https://books.google.com/talktobooks/query?q=What%20policies%20can%20help%20avoid%20climate%20change%3F

Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

sidd

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2018, 02:40:17 AM »
Hopefully, anyone using google-facebook-microsoft-twitter-amazon- ... services are doin it thru a cutout.

sidd

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2018, 04:00:17 AM »
Hopefully, anyone using google-facebook-microsoft-twitter-amazon- ... services are doin it thru a cutout.

sidd
The object is for you to control the search engines. I assume all search fields of any website owned or operated by a company who is listed on a stock exchange should be approached as any piece of complex machinery.
Your tools should include a VPN, a private/incognito browser and jscript filter. But even after all that you should still need to know how to use logical operators (+-!&|><), qualifiers (',") and filters like dates and language. Don't overlook the power of personal profiles though. There are benefits in training the search engines to the types and sources of information you personally have trust in. Examples: NOAA, NASA, national science organizations and universities.
I bet the company software engineers have custom screens and API sockets that lets them do this way easier than the stock stuff the public gets.

The other side of this problem are the people who manipulate the spiders, media tags and meta content.

YouTube, YouTubers and You
http://thoughtmaybe.com/youtube-youtubers-and-you/
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 04:16:24 AM by jacksmith4tx »
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 05:46:02 AM »
Certainly, I see the Trump Administrations threat control private search engines as a step in that direction

You're missing the critical point - private search engines have always been controlled - by the private corporations that are the search engines - just as Facebook and the people who use that service have always been 100% under the full control of Facebook corporation.  Google didn't pay $ billions for Youtube as a charitable "public service" to users to upload their videos.

Trump and his comments are NOT the point here. The issue here is the abuse of power by Monopoly Corporations no different than Standard Oil was a nefarious force in the early 1900s. Why assume Trump's an evil totalitarian by default and give a free pass to the existing evil totalitarians who have had almost total control of the internet - and the Laws that apply and the lack of rights for users - for 20 years now. 

It's almost impossible now to find a VPN that isn't already controlled / owned by some Govt related entity/agency. iow charging for a service they don't actually provide anymore. Where is my legal rights to check their AI does what they claim it does and is 100% above board?
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.

sidd

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2018, 07:36:42 AM »
" almost impossible now to find a VPN that isn't already controlled "

set up your own, not that hard.

But this probably belongs in the "How to secure Internet" thread.

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2018, 06:44:10 PM »
onsidering how mankind is messing-up the world, as per the linked article: "Maybe not achieving AI is the danger for humanity".

Title: "Advanced Artificial Intelligence Could Run The World Better Than Humans Ever Could"

https://futurism.com/advanced-artificial-intelligence-better-humans/?src=featured

Extract: "There are fears that tend to come up when people talk about futuristic artificial intelligence — say, one that could teach itself to learn and become more advanced than anything we humans might be able to comprehend. In the wrong hands, perhaps even on its own, such an advanced algorithm might dominate the world’s governments and militaries, impart Orwellian levels of surveillance, manipulation, and social control over societies, and perhaps even control entire battlefields of autonomous lethal weapons such as military drones.

But some artificial intelligence experts don’t think those fears are well-founded. In fact, highly-advanced artificial intelligence could be better at managing the world than humans have been. These fears themselves are the real danger, because they may hold us back from making that potential a reality.

“Maybe not achieving AI is the danger for humanity,” Tomas Mikolov, a research scientist for Facebook AI, said at The Joint Multi-Conference on Human-Level Artificial Intelligence in Prague on Saturday."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2018, 06:47:58 PM »
Certainly, I see the Trump Administrations threat control private search engines as a step in that direction

You're missing the critical point - private search engines have always been controlled - by the private corporations that are the search engines - just as Facebook and the people who use that service have always been 100% under the full control of Facebook corporation.  Google didn't pay $ billions for Youtube as a charitable "public service" to users to upload their videos.

Trump and his comments are NOT the point here. The issue here is the abuse of power by Monopoly Corporations no different than Standard Oil was a nefarious force in the early 1900s. Why assume Trump's an evil totalitarian by default and give a free pass to the existing evil totalitarians who have had almost total control of the internet - and the Laws that apply and the lack of rights for users - for 20 years now. 

It's almost impossible now to find a VPN that isn't already controlled / owned by some Govt related entity/agency. iow charging for a service they don't actually provide anymore. Where is my legal rights to check their AI does what they claim it does and is 100% above board?

Maybe the search engines have been pre-conditioned by the over-use of males under the age of 40 who spend too much time gaming the system.  In order to learn better ethics maybe the search engines (and other AI, learning from the internet like Google's AI)  should be pre-conditioned to learn from female internet users who aren't trying to put their thumb on the scales.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 09:03:19 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2018, 09:21:14 PM »
"female internet users "

"Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."

"On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog."

sidd


« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 09:49:42 PM by sidd »

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2018, 09:32:46 PM »
At some point this 'scientific' discussion of AI ethics will (or already has) devolve(d) into arbitrary self-serving points; which, in my opinion would justify Neven moving this whole thread to 'The rest' folder.  For the foreseeable future AI will be manipulated by all different sides to leverage their own self-interest as illustrated by past discussions of ethics and the 'tyranny of small decisions'.

Title: "Tyranny of small decisions"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_small_decisions

Extract: "The tyranny of small decisions is a phenomenon explored in an essay of the same name, published in 1966 by the American economist Alfred E. Kahn. The article describes a situation in which a number of decisions, individually small in size and time perspective, cumulatively result in an outcome which is not optimal nor desired."
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 09:44:58 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2018, 09:51:30 PM »
And here is Mickens bemoaning the state of machine learning and security:

https://www.usenix.org/conference/usenixsecurity18/presentation/mickens

sidd

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2018, 10:05:08 PM »
No it's a science topic. AI will be the tip of the spear in predicting the planet's future. There is a social element for sure but it's a feedback from the technology itself. Something to consider is that people actually trust machines more than they do their fellow humans. If we want everybody working together AI could be the ultimate persuader.

AI will need a lot of climate data to work with but it has the advantage of being able to integrate and correlate other kinds of data that we would classify as second or third order like economic activity and social stability. One point of view is that our technology created the climate change problem so we will have to fix it with technology.

We are all trapped with only one way define intelligence, the human brain. AI has no such constraints. Just the way we understand the concept of time puts us at a distinct disadvantage to what AI and machine intelligence can do.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

gerontocrat

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2018, 10:54:18 PM »
No it's a science topic. AI will be the tip of the spear in predicting the planet's future. There is a social element for sure but it's a feedback from the technology itself. Something to consider is that people actually trust machines more than they do their fellow humans. If we want everybody working together AI could be the ultimate persuader.

AI will need a lot of climate data to work with but it has the advantage of being able to integrate and correlate other kinds of data that we would classify as second or third order like economic activity and social stability. One point of view is that our technology created the climate change problem so we will have to fix it with technology.

We are all trapped with only one way define intelligence, the human brain. AI has no such constraints. Just the way we understand the concept of time puts us at a distinct disadvantage to what AI and machine intelligence can do.
A good many years ago the CEO of BMW hired a consultant to tell him what was going wrong. The consultant (one of the last true independents) told him - the problem is YOU. And yes, that CEO did resign. (A true story)

So what happens when the AI machine tells humanity - the problem is YOU. Will humanity resign and leave the planet, or will humanity break the machine - as yet another expert talking crap.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2018, 12:17:47 AM »

Frankenstein - It’s alive!!!
Two hundred years ago a young woman aged just 18 published a book about a monster: Mary Shelley had written Frankenstein. But it was much more than a brilliant yarn, Frankenstein created a new form of science fiction, responding to the recent revolution in scientific investigation and musing on the nature of life and creative morality.

The Science Show presents two remarkable interpretations of the Frankenstein story - the late Marilyn Butler of Exeter College, Oxford tells of Shelley’s family and the impact of the book and the plays back then; then Suzanne Burdon, who wrote a novel about Mary Shelley, Almost Invincible, explores what we now know of the significance of Frankenstein and how it transverses debates on the future of research.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/it%E2%80%99s-alive!!!/10107614

As some people on this forum think of Kissinger as a Frankenstein's monster, I provide a link to an article as to what he thinks of AI and society:

Title: "How the Enlightenment Ends"

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/06/henry-kissinger-ai-could-mean-the-end-of-human-history/559124/

Extract: "Philosophically, intellectually—in every way—human society is unprepared for the rise of artificial intelligence."

For those who like RT news, see:

Title: "Henry Kissinger pens ominous warning on dangers of artificial intelligence"

https://www.rt.com/news/432425-henry-kissinger-artificial-intelligence/

Extract: "Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has issued a stark warning to humanity: advances in artificial intelligence could lead to a world which humans will no longer be able to understand — and we should start preparing now.

What if machines learn to communicate with each other? What if they begin to establish their own objectives? What if they become so intelligent that they are making decisions beyond the capacity of the human mind?

Those are some of the questions the 95-year-old Kissinger poses in a piece published by the Atlantic under the apocalyptic headline: ‘How The Enlightenment Ends.’"
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2018, 01:37:38 AM »
I hope this thread drifts back to applying AI to climate and the cryosphere.


There are just a few dominate players:
The governments(including military)
University/NGO sponsored research
Private industry(spinoff developments in other fields)


There are billions of dollars being spent around the world to put AI on exascale supercomputers to study climate change. Almost every major US tech company has a dedicated program to study impacts of climate change on their business. Some, like MSFT, GOOGL, AMZM, IBM have the $$ and the hardware/software in-house. Of course lets not forget the big financial giants in banking and insurance are in it for the arbitrage advantage.

Key breakthroughs to watch for include chaos modeling, extracting physics equations/relationships from observational data and data integration from other domains(social/biology).

If you insist on exploring the bigger universe of what AI means to humanity this site will cover aspects of AI I hadn't thought of.
Quote
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT MACHINES THAT THINK?
https://www.edge.org/responses/q2015


Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

Hefaistos

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2018, 08:47:09 AM »

Extract:"Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger has issued a stark warning to humanity: advances in artificial intelligence could lead to a world which humans will no longer be able to understand — and we should start preparing now.

What if machines learn to communicate with each other? What if they begin to establish their own objectives? What if they become so intelligent that they are making decisions beyond the capacity of the human mind?

Those are some of the questions the 95-year-old Kissinger poses in a piece published by the Atlantic under the apocalyptic headline: ‘How The Enlightenment Ends.’"

One of the original authors on this is Kurzweil, who penned the basic ideas some 30 years ago. The Singularity Is Near: AI machines will take over in 2045, mainly due to the exponential learning curve of AI, whereas human learning isn't progressing as fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2018, 05:11:07 PM »

Extract:"Former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger ...
snip

One of the original authors on this is Kurzweil, who penned the basic ideas some 30 years ago. The Singularity Is Near: AI machines will take over in 2045, mainly due to the exponential learning curve of AI, whereas human learning isn't progressing as fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near

While Kurzweil is far more of an expert on AI than Kissinger ever will be; nevertheless, Kissinger make the key point that not only must we try to condition AI to accommodate society, also society must start trying to learn to accommodate AI.  I provide numerous posts on this line of thinking in the 'Adapting to the Anthropocene' thread.

https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1308.100.html
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #21 on: August 30, 2018, 05:52:07 PM »
also society must start trying to learn to accommodate AI

But why? When simplicity and sustainability is the key to reducing extraction, industrial agriculture and excessive consumerism, luxury and waste which is what actually drives ongoing global warming. The wealthiest 10% (including corps) is what generates 50% of all global warming.

AI sells people shit they don't need on Facebook and Google and Smartphones. Driving for Uber is not a rational career choice nor is it driving down ghg emissions. Society and govts accommodated the motor car and look how that ended up as an outcome for the planet. The same mindless unthinking assumptions (being sold by for-profit corps and the mega wealthy) underpins equally illogical beliefs that society must start trying to learn to accommodate AI. Such thoughtless beliefs are dumb not smart. 

It's about that society started to accommodate nature and life on this planet and stopped following snake oil salesmen out to be famous and rich. If Amazon disappeared overnight the world would not be worse off. It's unnecessary to what society and people really need to live a happy fulfilling life. A self-driving tesla even moreso. An unnecessary expensive high resource consuming luxury of no important. Shiny beads tis all.
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #22 on: August 30, 2018, 06:28:58 PM »
also society must start trying to learn to accommodate AI

But why? When simplicity and sustainability is the key to reducing extraction, industrial agriculture and excessive consumerism, luxury and waste which is what actually drives ongoing global warming. The wealthiest 10% (including corps) is what generates 50% of all global warming.
Simple AI is already here, and the associated political fallout (from Trump & in reaction to Russiagate) is already impacting Google, etc.  Advanced AI will be here in a few decades, whether you want it, or not, in the USA, EU, China and Russia.  If you don't like AI, then I recommend that you withdraw from modern society into the wilderness.

"It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2018, 09:06:11 AM »
Simple AI is already here

So is corruption.
So is fraud.
So is STDs.
So is war.
So is the abuse and manipulation of Uber, Google and Facebook and more.
So is global warming already here.

edit
(PS yes I am being intentionally flippant. I could have said, well chemicals are here and we still keep testing those and making sure they are OK for society before allowing a for-profit company to start selling them at the local hardware shop and farm gate - but saying that would make no difference either - so I went full on flippant dismissive about the silly dismissive thoughtless comment I received. gets depressing. )
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 05:27:12 PM by Lurk »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2018, 06:46:56 PM »
Simple AI is already here

So is corruption.
So is fraud.
So is STDs.
So is war.
So is the abuse and manipulation of Uber, Google and Facebook and more.
So is global warming already here.

edit
(PS yes I am being intentionally flippant. I could have said, well chemicals are here and we still keep testing those and making sure they are OK for society before allowing a for-profit company to start selling them at the local hardware shop and farm gate - but saying that would make no difference either - so I went full on flippant dismissive about the silly dismissive thoughtless comment I received. gets depressing. )
All of our current systems (psychological, socio-economic, political etc.) for addressing complex issues (wicked problems without clear answers) involve making a Thesis (proposed solution that is incomplete become of incomplete understanding) which creates a corresponding Antithesis (due to the incomplete nature of the proposed solution); which creates a dialectic spiral leading to a synthesis (typically temporary in nature), see attached image representing Hegelian analyses.

AI (eventually including AI for quantum computers) has its greatest impact on complex problems, and when used by ethical humans the dialectic spiral converges more rapidly towards synthesis and when used by less ethical humans the dialectic spiral diverges more rapidly away from synthesis than would have occurred otherwise.  Thus, I believe that it is critical that humans take responsibility for their input to dialectic spirals rather than to constantly pointing the finger at someone, or something (like AI), else.

All the ills that you point to were present before AI, but I get the feeling that you like to adopt a populist dogma that your represent the 'pure people' and that you like to point the finger as 'technical people' who set-up/run the various socio-economic/technological systems.  Certainly it is important to make sure that such 'technical people' have skin in the game for the sustainability of such systems; but as Putin has noted that any country that gets a six months lead on advanced AI technology can rule the world, it is also critical that the common man adapt himself to what is coming (or to withdraw from such systems).

Edit: I note that Kurzweil puts the technological singularity in the mid-2040's.
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2018, 09:26:45 PM »
AbruptSLR,
I see AI in much the same way but I add in a meta-force called the technium (Kevin Kelly) that assumes technology is what makes science possible. In this abstract view our DNA is chemical technology.

Here is one of the current popular thought leaders thoughts on AI and society.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/yuval-noah-harari-technology-tyranny/568330/
Quote
Why Technology Favors Tyranny
Yuval Noah Harari
Artificial intelligence could erase many practical advantages of democracy, and erode the ideals of liberty and equality. It will further concentrate power among a small elite if we don’t take steps to stop it.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2018, 11:00:40 PM »
AbruptSLR,
I see AI in much the same way but I add in a meta-force called the technium (Kevin Kelly) that assumes technology is what makes science possible. In this abstract view our DNA is chemical technology.

Here is one of the current popular thought leaders thoughts on AI and society.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/10/yuval-noah-harari-technology-tyranny/568330/
Quote
Why Technology Favors Tyranny
Yuval Noah Harari
Artificial intelligence could erase many practical advantages of democracy, and erode the ideals of liberty and equality. It will further concentrate power among a small elite if we don’t take steps to stop it.

Thanks for the link to Yuval's article.  He is very articulate and insightful, but I suspect that solutions that he recommends (while I do like his recommendation to increase efforts to understand the human mind), will not be sufficient to prevent a socio-economic collapse in the 2040 to 2060 timeframe.  Hopefully, groups that survive such a possible socio-economic collapse will learn something about sustainability.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2018, 11:01:26 PM »
but I get the feeling that you

Hey, don't quote dialectical thinking reasoning at me then tell me how your feeling about me and FANTASIZING what I am doing! If you want to know what I think and wish to understand what I am saying and doing then you could ask me - not tell me - otherwise you end looking like a jack ass instead of a smart ass. You're no expert at Dialectics nor an expert of me, so you should slow down and try applying it instead. :) Besides the content in my very first post was a good hint. So please ignore me as I think we'd both be better off. It never goes anywhere favorable.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:20:36 PM by Lurk »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2018, 11:08:40 PM »
but I get the feeling that you

Hey, don't quote dialectical thinking reasoning at me then tell me how your feeling about me and FANTASIZING what I am doing! If you want to know what I think and wish to understand what I am saying and doing then you can f****** well ask me - don't tell me - otherwise you end looking like a jack ass instead of a smart ass. You're no expert at Dialectics nor an expert of me, so you should slow down and try applying it and adjust your abrupt approach. :)

Maybe the content of the refs in my very first post might give you a hint but given the history I doubt that. So please ignore me we'd both be better off.

Lurk,

Please accept my apology if I have offended you. 

Please feel free to enlighten me; however, sometime I suspect that it must be pleasant for 'populists' to think of themselves a 'pure people'.  Thus, anything that makes them feel uncomfortable must be fake/false, while anything that make them feel comfortable must be true (because they are pure).  By holding this simple belief, they can hold others (elites, technocrats, deep state, etc.) accountable for any short-comings in today's complex socio-economic-governance-technological systems; while absolving themselves of any responsibility (as that would make them feel uncomfortable and consequently must be incorrect).

Such a populist parasitic belief system works so long as reasonable doubt allows them to pin responsibility on others; but fails when either: a) they do not have reasonable doubt to hide behind, or b) hiding behind uncertainty doesn't do them any good because the systems they are gaming will become unstainable without proper guidance.

Certainly, those who pull the strings of today's complex systems need to have skin in the game w.r.t. their striving to assure updated/sustainable systems.  Nevertheless, as the world heads into the 2030s to 2050s, numerous: socio-economic, technological and Earth systems will almost certainly be approaching unsustainable conditions; and consequently it seems to me that it is more important for the common man to assume full responsibility for his own actions, rather than just pointing fingers at 'others'.

In the future, I will do my best to ignore your posts (unless you care to enlighten me in your next few posts here).

ASLR
« Last Edit: August 31, 2018, 11:24:56 PM by AbruptSLR »
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Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2018, 12:52:36 AM »

ASLR

I am not offended, no need to apologize, and believe whatever you want about anything.
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2018, 08:20:22 AM »
When will humanity start living the Anthropocene?

Not just live in it, but fully accepting and living it. Somewhat like beeing a parent, some spend years trying to be a parent until they realize that they don't have to try to be one, they already are. As soon as that sinks in you start to do what you should have been doing all along. Fixing the present, no matter how boring, ugly or disgusting that may be, like all parents should do.

Wrecking is the easy part. We can even wreck a civilis(z)ation but that doesn't make us gods, just fools created by nature. We need to fix the present. Or the same thing we gave birth to, might destroy us.

Less is beautiful.

Adding below; The Ghost of Transhumanism & the Sentience of Existence.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2018, 10:00:15 AM »
Google and Mastercard Cut a Secret Ad Deal to Track Retail Sales
Google found the perfect way to link online ads to store purchases: credit card data
By Mark Bergen and Jennifer Surane
August 31, 2018,

For the past year, select Google advertisers have had access to a potent new tool to track whether the ads they ran online led to a sale at a physical store in the U.S. That insight came thanks in part to a stockpile of Mastercard transactions that Google paid for.

But most of the two billion Mastercard holders aren’t aware of this behind-the-scenes tracking. That’s because the companies never told the public about the arrangement. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-30/google-and-mastercard-cut-a-secret-ad-deal-to-track-retail-sales
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2018, 08:34:20 PM »
Interesting research into augmented reality. Wonder if being able to see in other wavelengths will change our perception of reality?
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/611936/physicists-hack-the-human-visual-system-to-create-ghost-images/
Quote
A pioneering experiment will extend human vision to invisible wavelengths, say researchers.
...
The fact that the eye never interacts with light that has hit the object opens up some fascinating possibilities, not least the prospect of illuminating the object with one wavelength and then perceiving it at another.  Indeed, the illuminating wavelength need not be visible by the human eye.

“Ghost-imaging with the eye opens up a number of completely novel applications such as extending human vision into invisible wavelength regimes in real time,” say Boccolini and co. This requires no additional viewing screen or computational steps, since the human vision system does almost all the work.

I would love to be able to see at infrared, microwave and ultraviolet frequencies. Driving down the hi-way and being able to 'see' traffic radar or how to avoid being slow broiled by powerful microwave beams. I'm sure there are many other uses that would apply in medicine, manufacturing and even warfare.

Might have come in handy in for American diplomats too.
'Mystery illness' afflicting diplomats linked to RF/MW radiation'
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20180830/Mystery-illness-afflicting-diplomats-linked-to-RFMW-radiation.aspx
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2018, 08:35:28 AM »
Heard this earlier this year, it might fit here and be useful as thought starter.

What Confucius, The Buddha, and Aristotle can teach us about technology
Does the key to managing today's technology lie in ancient philosophy?

Philosophy professor Shannon Vallor studies ethics and emerging technology. She argues that to deal with the relentless pace of technological change, we should take inspiration from traditional virtue ethics: in particular, the philosophical work of Confucius, Aristotle, and The Buddha.

Virtue ethics of different cultures share a focus on developing moral character through particular disciplines and practices. The goal is to develop skills in 'practical wisdom'. It's not about learning a set of ethical rules; it's about refining the ability to make wise decisions in a variety of circumstances.
http://www.cbc.ca/radio/spark/what-confucius-the-buddha-and-aristotle-can-teach-us-about-technology-1.4706581
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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2018, 09:12:38 AM »
"female internet users "

"Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents."

"On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog."

sidd
Thank you sidd, that brought a (sad) chuckle.

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2018, 05:21:34 PM »
When will humanity start living the Anthropocene?

Not just live in it, but fully accepting and living it. Somewhat like beeing a parent, some spend years trying to be a parent until they realize that they don't have to try to be one, they already are. As soon as that sinks in you start to do what you should have been doing all along. Fixing the present, no matter how boring, ugly or disgusting that may be, like all parents should do.

Wrecking is the easy part. We can even wreck a civilis(z)ation but that doesn't make us gods, just fools created by nature. We need to fix the present. Or the same thing we gave birth to, might destroy us.

Less is beautiful.

Adding below; The Ghost of Transhumanism & the Sentience of Existence.

Sleepy,

I appreciate your post(s) very much.


Very best regards,

ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2018, 08:21:32 AM »
Adding below; The Ghost of Transhumanism & the Sentience of Existence.

the doc from sleepy addresses important issues such as

Transhumanists’ visions for our future remain largely unchallenged, because their mindset
is a symptom of prominent scientific ideologies that emerged in the wake of
modernity. As a result, they feel empowered to dictate what we understand by the term
‘progress’, and what we respect as rational. They talk as if they knew what the future
“will” look like and exhibit stubborn resistance to any rational critique against their
outlooks; thereby displaying symptoms of an irrational ideology.

The purpose of this manifesto is to expose transhumanism’s irrationality and dangers.

Transhumanism is based on various deeply flawed assumptions .The type of
transhumanism we criticise here builds on the following beliefs:
• Reality is the totality of information.
• Humans are nothing but information processing objects.
• Artificial intelligence is intelligence in a human sense.

Based on these three beliefs transhumanists argue that:
• decision-making should generally be based on information and the artificial
intelligence that operates on it, because this kind of decision-making leads to
better decisions, and
• we should welcome a next phase of evolution, in which humans can be
enhanced; for instance by artificial intelligence that is more powerful than human
intelligence.

imo 'Transhumanists' must drink from the same well as Neoliberalism.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 08:47:00 AM by Lurk »
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Sleepy

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2018, 10:10:28 AM »
Hey Lurk, entering the web of philosophy can be dangerous, (especially for non native english speakers like myself) but that's where science and math started, that's where stories about a better life started and that's why we are where we are today. Science, math and spreadsheets are tools, tools that can settle complex issues like climate change, but fail in changing the ones who created them. It's hard to fix a hole with a drill.

Educated philosophers are definitely on to this, while much of the world is shouting for more as the solution, completely in line with the now obsolete stories that needs to be replaced.

So humanity needs to create new stories, but how? Even more daunting in this stressed out twitter frenzy that many live in today. I liked the ending of the article you posted with Vallor above:
Quote
Vallor argued for something like mindfulness in our use of technologies, and weighing that use against our broader goals for ourselves and the social world around us. "Think about what are the qualities in our life that we want our technologies to enhance. What are the experiences that we want our technologies to enhance? And are those in fact the qualities that we are getting," she said.

Also add a fools (certainly this one's) hope for more time, than what those spreadsheets tell us today...


snip

Sleepy,

I appreciate your post(s) very much.


Very best regards,

ASLR
Thank you, ASLR. Had those thoughts brewing for a while and your comment was highly appreciated. I've been somewhat silent this summer, partly busy with other stuff but also somewhat saddened by how disconnected people in general appear about the Anthropocene, even though we are liviing in it. Mowed my lawn yesterday, last time was in June...

---

Keep it up folks, have to run, borrowing a few words from Rushkoff;
beeing human is a team sport, whatever future we have, it will be together.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2018, 05:59:42 AM »
AI, populism and the threat to Human Rights
Future Tense Radio Program - Audio Sunday 2 September 2018
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/futuretense/technology-and-human-rights/10173398

The very notion of human rights is under threat from nationalists and populists. Yale’s Samuel Moyn argues the slide is related to a decline of liberal democracy.

But there are also risks from the growth of Artificial Intelligence. The Australian Human Rights Commission has launched a new project aimed at helping to protect and promote human rights in an era of “unprecedented technological change”.

Guests
Edward Santow – Australian Human Rights Commissioner
Samuel Moyn – Professor of Law and History, Yale University
Alison Brysk – Mellichamp Professor of Global Governance, University of California, Santa Barbara
Alyssa Satara – Human Rights Advocate
Birgit Schippers – Visiting Research Fellow, Queens University Belfast

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2018, 11:37:41 PM »
Slow but steady progress is being made w.r.t. the use of AI to improve projections from climate change models:

Title: "AI speeds up climate computations"

https://phys.org/news/2018-09-ai-climate.html

Extract: "Forecasting global and local climates requires the construction and testing of mathematical climate models. Since such models must incorporate a plethora of physical processes and interactions, climate simulations require enormous amounts of computational power. And even the best models inevitably have limitations, since the phenomena involved can never be modeled in sufficient detail. In a project carried out in the context of the DFG-funded Collaborative Research Center "Waves to Weather", Stephan Rasp of the Institute of Theoretical Meteorology at LMU (Director: Professor George Craig) has now looked at the question of whether the application of artificial intelligence can improve the efficacy of climate modelling. The study, which was performed in collaboration with Professor Mike Pritchard of the University of California at Irvine und Pierre Gentine of Columbia University in New York, appears in the journal PNAS."

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2018, 05:49:38 PM »
Add another team to the ML climate change research effort:
TRIPODS Climate project:
https://news.uchicago.edu/story/data-science-aims-find-next-el-nino
https://news.uci.edu/2018/09/11/uci-joins-in-launch-of-new-nsf-funded-data-science-and-climate-initiative/

Quote
New climate models

TRIPODS+Climate will create new methodologies in machine learning and network estimation that reveal the structure of the Earth’s climate system and its regional hydroclimatic impacts. Machine learning, where statistical algorithms use large datasets to detect patterns and make predictions, can be used to find teleconnections previously hidden from human observation. Network estimation methods can mathematically conceptualize global climate as an interconnected structure of nodes, so that scientists can better quantify and understand complex influences across geography and time.

"Data science techniques are especially useful for sifting through massive troves of data to discover unexpected relationships between events,” said Wright, professor of computer sciences at UW-Madison. “We have seen examples of this phenomenon in the relationships between genetics, environment and disease. Climate science is an area in which very large collections of data are ready and waiting to be analyzed."

These tools will then be used to build new computational climate models and create new platforms for climate diagnostics and prognostics, improving seasonal and subseasonal forecasts. More accurate predictions will help scientists and policymakers understand and prepare for climate change, extreme weather events, and water allocation under conditions of high or low precipitation.

...

The TRIPODS+X research team will jointly pursue the creation of new methodologies in machine learning and network estimation to develop a better understanding of the Earth’s climate system and its regional hydrologic impacts. “Classical tools fail to account for complex dependence structures and higher-order interactions among features, and for nonstationary dynamics,” said UCI co-investigator Efi Foufoula-Georgiou, Distinguished Professor of civil & environmental engineering. “Because of this, important aspects of climate systems are poorly understood, limiting our ability to improve the accuracy of regional forecasts. We believe that data science has a lot to offer in exploring climate data and model outputs to understand and attribute climate modes of variability and change to develop better predictive models.”
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Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2018, 03:06:28 AM »
Add another team to the ML climate change research effort:

These tools will then be used to build new computational climate models and create new platforms for climate diagnostics and prognostics, improving seasonal and subseasonal forecasts. More accurate predictions will help scientists and policymakers understand and prepare for climate change, extreme weather events, and water allocation under conditions of high or low precipitation.

When the terms/activities of Machine learning and AI and algorithms are used in this contextual framework I am all for them and think it's terrific. Scientific research and development and studies like this are excellent. Ongoing Peer review being essential ingredient.

Or say using such skills for satellite management or rocket launches or searching the cosmos. Or managing new tech to manage a more complex electricity grid which now has millions of roof solar coming into and out of it; and managing the power use demand in a home etc etc Great.
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Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2018, 05:05:32 PM »
It would take four years and a class-action lawsuit to get to the bottom of what was going on, but when the budget tool was eventually handed over for scrutiny, a hint of what we all have to fear from the unrestricted power of machine decision-making was revealed.

The algorithm was junk. The data was riddled with errors. The calculations were so bad that the court would eventually rule its determinations unconstitutional. It had, effectively, been awarding benefits at random. And yet, when dressed up as a slick and glossy new computer programme, the algorithm brought with it an air of authority that was difficult to argue against.


In the days before proper regulation of medicines, you used to be able to bottle up any coloured liquid and make a small fortune selling it as a cure-all. Today, in the still largely unfettered world of AI and algorithms, we’re seeing people make bold, unsubstantiated and sometimes irresponsible claims about their inventions.

There’s only one way to prevent this. I think it’s time we started treating machines as we would any other source of power. I would like to propose a system of regulation for algorithms, and perhaps a good place to start would be with Tony Benn’s five simple questions, designed for powerful people, but equally applicable to modern AI:

“What power have you got?
“Where did you get it from?
“In whose interests do you use it?
“To whom are you accountable?
“How do we get rid of you?”

Because, ultimately, we can’t just think of algorithms in isolation. We have to think of the failings of the people who design them – and the danger to those they are supposedly designed to serve.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/power-algorithms-technology-regulate

with refs
Dr Hannah Fry is a lecturer in the mathematics of cities at University College London. Her book Hello World: How to Be Human in the Age of the Machine is out now
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2018, 05:42:09 PM »
It would take four years and a class-action lawsuit to get to the bottom of what was going on, but when the budget tool was eventually handed over for scrutiny, a hint of what we all have to fear from the unrestricted power of machine decision-making was revealed.

The algorithm was junk. The data was riddled with errors. The calculations were so bad that the court would eventually rule its determinations unconstitutional. It had, effectively, been awarding benefits at random. And yet, when dressed up as a slick and glossy new computer programme, the algorithm brought with it an air of authority that was difficult to argue against.


In the days before proper regulation of medicines, you used to be able to bottle up any coloured liquid and make a small fortune selling it as a cure-all. Today, in the still largely unfettered world of AI and algorithms, we’re seeing people make bold, unsubstantiated and sometimes irresponsible claims about their inventions.

There’s only one way to prevent this. I think it’s time we started treating machines as we would any other source of power. I would like to propose a system of regulation for algorithms, and perhaps a good place to start would be with Tony Benn’s five simple questions, designed for powerful people, but equally applicable to modern AI:

“What power have you got?
“Where did you get it from?
“In whose interests do you use it?
“To whom are you accountable?
“How do we get rid of you?”

Because, ultimately, we can’t just think of algorithms in isolation. We have to think of the failings of the people who design them – and the danger to those they are supposedly designed to serve.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/17/power-algorithms-technology-regulate

with refs
Dr Hannah Fry is a lecturer in the mathematics of cities at University College London. Her book Hello World: How to Be Human in the Age of the Machine is out now

It's a good article, with a couple of instructive cautionary tales.

Conceptually, this shouldn't be hard to address.

Underwriters Laboratories certifies most home appliances in the US.  They make sure the devices won't short out, explode, or start a fire.  In most cases, getting an item UL-certified is totally voluntary.  It's near-universal though, because most retailers won't sell electrical items without such certification.  Because if they sell an item that burns down someone's home, the retailer bears responsibility.

A similar arrangement might be set up for services that proclaim to use "artificial intelligence."  Federal regulation might be necessary to implement this, but might be possible without Federal involvement.


Lurk

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2018, 06:22:50 AM »
(Video) Julian Assange chips in and says it will soon be impossible for any human being to not be included into global databases collected by governments and state-like entities. Some people believe this is a great idea, an imperative that humans had better make themselves adjust to this new "reality" which is in fact being forced on human beings by other than un-elected but powerful human beings (people no different than you except they have the power of MONEY behind them) who are driving the uptake of AI-like technologies.

It is my view that misguided and shallow thinking people often consider these changes are being driven by a NOUN, ie AI or Technology; when in reality it is and can only ever be driven by people - be they facilitators, enablers like Politicians or Financiers looking for a profit to be had asap, or the actual youthful software engineers who do not know what fire they are playing with or what's inside that Pandora's Box - as all are removed into their own small independent roles due to Information Asymmetry that is cajoled and manipulated by the Powerful already Wealthy with dubious motivations of self-interest often disabled by their own lack of empathy, ethical compass, or long term responsibility for their actions.

 ...............

   " This generation being born now… is the last free generation. You are born and either immediately or within say a year you are known globally. Your identity in one form or another –coming as a result of your idiotic parents plastering your name and photos all over Facebook or as a result of insurance applications or passport applications– is known to all major world powers.

“A small child now in some sense has to negotiate its relationship with all the major world powers… It puts us in a very different position. Very few technically capable people are able to live apart, to choose to live apart, to choose to go their own way,” he added. “It smells a bit like totalitarianism – in some way.”

“Look at what Google and Baidu and Tencent and Amazon and Facebook are doing. They are basically open-cut harvesting the knowledge of humankind as we express it, when we communicate with each other… This classical model, which people in academia call ‘surveillance capitalism’… has changed now.

"It’s a really very important and severe economic change. Which is to take the surveillance capitalism model and transform it instead into a model that does not yet have a name, an ‘AI model’. Which is to use this vast reservoir to train Artificial Intelligences of different kinds. This would replace not only intermediary sectors –most things you do on the internet is in a sense more efficient intermediation– but to take over the transport sector, or create whole new sectors.

Assange also predicted that the scale of hostile activities through cyberspace will see a breakout point as soon as AI is trained to sufficiently automate hacking attacks.

 "There is no border [online]. It’s 220 milliseconds from New York to Nairobi. Why would there ever be peace in such a scenario?” he said. “[Entities online] are creating their own borders using cryptography. But the size of the attack surface for any decent-sized organization, the number of people, different types of software and hardware it has to pull inside itself means that it is very hard to establish.

    "I don’t think it’s really possible to come up with borders that are predictable enough and stable enough to eliminate conflict. Therefore, there will be more conflict."


And that's in a world where you have already permanently lost your Freedom and Liberty now. You lost your Personal Human Right to Privacy long ago. Even if you are not on Facebook because your family and friends are and if they send you emails, texts, or PMs, or mention you and upload pictures of you then you too are already CAPTURED by Facebook, the NSA, Corporations, Data Processes, Identify Thieves, Russian Mafia, Fake Indian Telemarketers, Fraudsters, Cambridge Analytica types, Political Campaigners and Governments all over the world.

Now if only My Tesla would automatically "phone home" and tell them I have finished work and just entered Home as my GPS destination so I won't be long. Life is so hard we need all the help we can get. Right? <shaking my head in despair>
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:29:44 AM by Lurk »
My last PM to Neven: "Hey it won't be difficult to walk away. And it won't be my loss either."
Neven can fight his own fights. Win his own arguments. Stand up for his own values & political views. Post his own research. I won't be his Proxy anymore to debate those he wants me to because he will not.

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2018, 03:15:03 PM »
If you are one of these intellectual elites, the Holocene Extinction will not include some special "homo sapiens".
https://www.inverse.com/article/49223-how-singularitynet-s-ceo-thinks-a-i-will-help-people-live-for-1-000-years
Quote
The first human to live for 1,000 years may have already been born. Ben Goertzel, founder and CEO of artificial intelligence firm SingularityNET, sees a large-scale shift over the coming years as super-advanced machines predict how different drugs will interact with the body.
...
“It’s not even that extremely visionary in the view of what longevity freaks like Aubrey and I believe, because I think we could easily be 10 or 20 years away, or even five years away from something that would let most people who took the therapy extend the lifespan by say, 10 or 20 years beyond it would be otherwise,” Goertzel says. “And once you’re at that point, then hopefully there’s a virtuous cycle that happens. Because once there’s some therapy that will let the person who took it live to an average age of 95 instead of 85, then the world gets excited. And then you’ll see more resources and enthusiasm going into this type of research, and then you’ll see more discoveries.”

It's only fiction until technology makes it real. You can bet it will be a short list of people who can afford this.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.

Sleepy

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Re: Artificial Intelligence, Machine Learning, Technology & Ethics
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2018, 05:24:55 PM »
Heh, free flights for robots! Being a mortal is never easy.  Adam Savage came to mind... :)

A small problem though, since we might not have more than two or three years left to achieve meaningful mitigation (enough to stay below 2°C). What will the eventual future Savage do on a barren planet alone?
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.