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Author Topic: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change  (Read 427522 times)

Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1800 on: February 07, 2018, 08:26:22 PM »
Yay sleepy, F***ing Åmål, there aren't even proper winters anymore!
But our springs are getting (even) better!  :-X
Mean from 35 stations for March, April and May.
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P-maker

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1801 on: February 08, 2018, 03:08:18 AM »
I  assume those 7 degrees reflects the dfference between having snow on the ground or not.

Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1802 on: February 08, 2018, 08:26:59 AM »
Yeah, it's enough with a lot less than that in some places. In the most southern parts we sometimes go from autumn to spring, skipping winter altogether.
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Pmt111500

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1803 on: February 09, 2018, 09:56:44 AM »
Some wintery photos. Old football field in the forest, still occasionally cleared of saplings, 40 years of unmanaging shores of a stream (ditch) and the optional path to-and-from school 40 years ago.

The most notable changes are the height of trees and relatively low amount of snow. Also the ditch hasn't frozen solid, so me in youth would guess these would bebof december or early january. :P 8)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2018, 10:07:11 AM by Pmt111500 »
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Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1804 on: February 09, 2018, 11:43:49 AM »
Since this thread covers anecdotal stories about climate change I tried to make a piece of an old writing understandable in English, it's written in old Swedish.  :-X

First a short quote from the Arctic Café thread.
Reading old writings (from Lindome, Gothenburg); in 1887 the ice thawed on lakes around 1 May. During winter 1888 the papers wrote about eight metre high snow banks in Skåne and in Ystad some had to climb out through their roofs. Some who tried to walk on top of the snow crust, where tripped by telephone wires. Etc etc. Don't think a modern Krakatoa would be able to replicate any of that.

The following is the first section from that writing by Alfred Jönsson in 1929.
When it comes to strong and harsh winters, older chronicles have a lot to tell.
In 764 the entire Black Sea and Dardanelles froze to 30 inch depth (89 cm) and 801
up to 50 inches or close to 1 1/2 metres.
However, this information must be taken with a grain if salt.
In 860 the Adriatic Sea was frozen.
1130 Southern Rhone and Po.
In 1468, when Charles the Bold's warriors were awarded wine rations, they had to use an ax.
In 1493, the port at Genoa was frozen.
1507 port at Marseille.
In 1544 the wine in the cellars of whole of France froze and had to be cut up with an ax.
1594 the sea at Marseille and Venice froze, as well in 1622.
1658 a tremendous cold continued throughout France from December 24th to 18 February.
1684 heavily loaded wagons went across the River Thames in London.
In 1767 the temperature in Paris fell to -20 degrees Celsius and in 1830 in Stuttgart to -36 degrees.

Of greater interest for us, however, are the notifications from strict winter cold that has prevailed in Sweden and its neighborhood.
In 1040 the wolves walked from Norway to Denmark over the frozen Kattegatt.
In 1292 one could ride from Oslo to Jutland over the ice.
1322 they rode from Lübeck to Copenhagen and from Königsberg to Lübeck. Inns were set up on the ice, but were swallowed by the waves after a sudden storm and powerful currents.
1424, 1507 and 1545 they traveled on the ice from Mecklenburg to Denmark.
In 1658 King Carl X marched across the Belts with his army, this winter was cold throughout Europe.
1676 and 1740, they traveled again without danger from Rostock, Vismar and Lübeck to Copenhagen.

The strangest winter in terms of its duration and strong cold was above of all others 1459, were the historians wrote that you could travel across the Baltic Sea from Stockholm to Reval and from Karlskrona to Memel. These distances are 760 to 800 kilometres. The winter was so cold that you could drive a horse and a sledge anywhere over the Baltic Sea. Some chronologists indicate that the same kind of winter took place in 1322, but this is not as well covered, as the winter of 1459.

This is from the fourth part of Alfred Jönssons writings and it was only the first page of 88. Only some of it are about our winters.

We had five days of colder anomalies in the southern parts. Back to the new normal yesterday.
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be cause

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1805 on: February 09, 2018, 12:49:09 PM »
Here in Northern Ireland we woke to the 11th snowfall of winter .. 10 more than last year with several more in the long range forecast .. our proximity to Greenland has certainly been evident this year . All our snow has come on west winds .
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DrTskoul

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1806 on: February 09, 2018, 01:37:49 PM »
Sleepy, great info!!! Thank you for the translation.  In my memories there has never been a time where any Mediterranean port has frozen....
“You can know the name of a bird in all the languages of the world, but when you're finished, you'll know absolutely nothing whatever about the bird... So let's look at the bird and see what it's doing -- that's what counts.”
― Richard P. Feynman

Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1807 on: February 09, 2018, 02:50:48 PM »
Glad someone liked it, DrTskoul! A few years back I tried to find older climate or weather related stories and there's plenty more outhere, but that's not science.

Imagine how persistent and cold winters would have been to freeze those waters over? We should still be there. Adding the law dome ice cores and also attaching the last part of this (somewhat funnier) timeline below: https://xkcd.com/1732/
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

gerontocrat

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1808 on: February 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM »
Since this thread covers anecdotal stories about climate change I tried to make a piece of an old writing understandable in English, it's written in old Swedish.  :-X

First a short quote from the Arctic Café thread.
Reading old writings (from Lindome, Gothenburg); in 1887 the ice thawed on lakes around 1 May. During winter 1888 the papers wrote about eight metre high snow banks in Skåne and in Ystad some had to climb out through their roofs. Some who tried to walk on top of the snow crust, where tripped by telephone wires. Etc etc. Don't think a modern Krakatoa would be able to replicate any of that.
Hullo Sleepy,

Once upon a time I had a book - "The Sea Around Us" by Rachel Carson (yes - her of "Silent Spring" written as she was dying), published 1951. In it is an entire chapter on retreat of Arctic Sea Ice, and references going back a good many years to ice-free days in Norwegian harbours (no ice- breakers back then).

It even has theories about the cause - not Global warming.

This wonderful book I lent out and saw it no more. But by golly and by gosh, it is a wonderful read.
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"

SteveMDFP

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1809 on: February 09, 2018, 06:40:55 PM »

Hullo Sleepy,

Once upon a time I had a book - "The Sea Around Us" by Rachel Carson (yes - her of "Silent Spring" written as she was dying), published 1951. In it is an entire chapter on retreat of Arctic Sea Ice, and references going back a good many years to ice-free days in Norwegian harbours (no ice- breakers back then).

It even has theories about the cause - not Global warming.

This wonderful book I lent out and saw it no more. But by golly and by gosh, it is a wonderful read.

If you can utilize a US online retailer, a replacement copy seems fairly affordable:
http://booksamillion.com/search?id=7181978532705&query=%22%22The+Sea+Around+Us%22++%22Rachel+Carson%22

gerontocrat

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1810 on: February 09, 2018, 07:20:56 PM »

Hullo Sleepy,

Once upon a time I had a book - "The Sea Around Us" by Rachel Carson (yes - her of "Silent Spring" written as she was dying), published 1951. In it is an entire chapter on retreat of Arctic Sea Ice, and references going back a good many years to ice-free days in Norwegian harbours (no ice- breakers back then).

It even has theories about the cause - not Global warming.

This wonderful book I lent out and saw it no more. But by golly and by gosh, it is a wonderful read.

If you can utilize a US online retailer, a replacement copy seems fairly affordable:
http://booksamillion.com/search?id=7181978532705&query=%22%22The+Sea+Around+Us%22++%22Rachel+Carson%22
But it was a first edition - weep!
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"

Sebastian Jones

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1811 on: February 09, 2018, 07:25:17 PM »
"The Sea Around Us"- I have a copy- is a great illustration of how science has evolved. Even someone as brilliant and forward thinking as Carson could be wrong about global warming. It really struck me, last time I read it, how, while the "correct" science was available, she had not picked up on it. To be absolutely clear, Rachel Carson is my heroine; she changed my life.

Alexander555

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1812 on: February 09, 2018, 07:55:27 PM »

ghoti

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1813 on: February 09, 2018, 08:34:37 PM »
282 cm of snow in Morocco.



https://watchers.news/2018/02/09/southern-morocco-snow-sahara/

No way those reported snowfall amounts are correct. The photos seem to show depths more like mm instead of cm but even that visually seems to be over estimates.

Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1814 on: February 09, 2018, 09:14:11 PM »
Hullo Sleepy,

Once upon a time I had a book - "The Sea Around Us" by Rachel Carson (yes - her of "Silent Spring" written as she was dying), published 1951. In it is an entire chapter on retreat of Arctic Sea Ice, and references going back a good many years to ice-free days in Norwegian harbours (no ice- breakers back then).

It even has theories about the cause - not Global warming.

This wonderful book I lent out and saw it no more. But by golly and by gosh, it is a wonderful read.
Thanks gerontocrat! I found it as a pdf. :)
Started a quick browse through it and couldn't stop, I'll have to read it from start to finish later.
Took a few quick quotes around the Arctic, also adding that beatiful finishing scentence:

The least-known region of the ocean floor lies under the Arctic Sea. The physical difficulties of sounding here are enormous. A permanent sheet of ice, as much as fifteen feet thick, covers the whole central basin and is impenetrable to ships. Peary took several soundings in the course of his dash to the Pole by dog team in 1909. On one attempt a few miles from the Pole the wire broke with 1,500 fathoms out In 1927 Sir Hubert Wilkins landed his plane on the ice 550 miles north of Point Barrow and obtained a single echo sounding of 2,975 fathoms, the deepest ever recorded from the Arctic Sea.

Passing around the North Cape, the warm currents keep open such harbours as Hammerfest and Murmansk, although Riga, 800 miles farther south on the shores of the Baltic, is choked with ice.

It is now established beyond question that a definite change in the arctic climate set in about 1900, that it became astonishingly marked about 1930, and that it is now spreading into sub-arctic and temperate regions. The frigid top of the world is very clearly warming up.

But what we are experiencing now is perhaps a climatic change of shorter duration, measurable only in decades or centuries. Some scientists say that there must have been a small increase in solar activity, changing the pattern of air circulation and causing the southerly winds to blow more frequently in Scandinavia and Spitsbergen; changes in ocean currents, according to this view, are secondary effects of the shift of prevailing winds.

The Norwegians seem to have hunted walruses in the White Sea and had probably reached the coasts of Novaya Zemlya by the time of Ottar; they may have discovered Spitsbergen in 1194, although this is usually credited to Barents in 1596,. The Russians had hunted seals in the polar seas as early as the sixteenth century, and whalers began to operate out of Spitsbergen soon after Hudson, in 1607, called attention to the great number of whales in the sea between Spitsbergen and Greenland. So at least the threshold of the ice-filled northern ocean was known when the British and Dutch traders began their desperate attempt to find a sea road north of Europe and Asia. There were many attempts, but few got beyond the coasts of Novaya Zemlya; the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries were marked by the wreckage of hopes as well as of vessels, and by the death of such brilliant navigators as William Barents under the hardships met by expeditions ill prepared for arctic winters. Finally the effort was abandoned. It was not until 1879, after the practical need for such a passage had largely disappeared, that Baron Nordenskiold, in the Swedish Vega, passed from Gothenburg to Bering Strait.

For all at last return to the sea to Oceanus, the ocean river, like the ever-flowing stream of time, the beginning and the end.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

Daniel B.

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1815 on: February 09, 2018, 09:37:41 PM »
282 cm of snow in Morocco.



https://watchers.news/2018/02/09/southern-morocco-snow-sahara/

No way those reported snowfall amounts are correct. The photos seem to show depths more like mm instead of cm but even that visually seems to be over estimates.

Moroccan news reported snow depths ranging from 40-200 cm.  This closed many roads, particularly in the south.  Their weather service is forecasting another 25 cm.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1816 on: February 09, 2018, 09:50:10 PM »
Here's an article with nice pictures when the snow hit first time:
https://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2018/01/239497/zagoura-ouarzazate-taroudant-snow/
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Alexander555

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1817 on: February 09, 2018, 10:43:21 PM »
Probably the thick layers are only local, but still it's plenty snow for a place that normaly don't has snow.

Bernard

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1818 on: February 09, 2018, 11:42:07 PM »
That is a lot of snow indeed. But snow is not unusual in Morocco mountains. One of the places quoted in the article, Ifrane (elev > 1600m) is a famous ski resort, with average yearly precipitations (falling mainly in winter) over 1,100 mm, more than in my France Southern Alps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifrane#Climate
Which is indeed exceptional is snow further South, on the other side of the Atlas mountains, in places such as Ouarzazate, "the door of the desert".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouarzazate#Climate

SteveMDFP

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1819 on: February 10, 2018, 02:26:44 AM »

Hullo Sleepy,

Once upon a time I had a book - "The Sea Around Us" by Rachel Carson (yes - her of "Silent Spring" written as she was dying), published 1951. In it is an entire chapter on retreat of Arctic Sea Ice, and references going back a good many years to ice-free days in Norwegian harbours (no ice- breakers back then).

It even has theories about the cause - not Global warming.

This wonderful book I lent out and saw it no more. But by golly and by gosh, it is a wonderful read.

If you can utilize a US online retailer, a replacement copy seems fairly affordable:
http://booksamillion.com/search?id=7181978532705&query=%22%22The+Sea+Around+Us%22++%22Rachel+Carson%22
But it was a first edition - weep!

Even a first edition can be replaced, though not as economically:
https://www.etsy.com/listing/122145634/rachel-carson-the-sea-around-us-1st

Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1820 on: February 10, 2018, 02:03:19 PM »
The present SSW provides more "global cooling" to annoy someone in NA, we are left with this.
Omnia mirari, etiam tritissima.

Shared Humanity

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1821 on: February 10, 2018, 06:46:17 PM »
Chicago has just experienced a delightful foot of snow, falling over a period of 24 hours. Reminiscent  of winters past.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1822 on: February 13, 2018, 07:15:21 PM »
Feb 12, Florida.
“The low temperature at Key West was 76°F again this morning, on track to set a new daily record for the warm minimum! The current record of 75° was most recently set in 2013. Normal lows for this time of year are in the mid 60s.

NWS Key West sunset view!
#FLwx #FLKeys #KeyWest ”
https://twitter.com/nwskeywest/status/963222817071337472
Sunset photo at the link.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1823 on: February 13, 2018, 07:25:43 PM »
Svalbard Airport temps.
“Remarkable warmth (relative to average) in the Atlantic-side of the #Arctic Ocean during the last 30-days ---> mean temperatures were 11.9°C above average at Longyearbyen, Svalbard!

[Climate stats from @Meteorologene at https://www.yr.no/place/Norway/Svalbard/Longyearbyen/statistics.html ]
https://twitter.com/ZLabe/status/963162589118132224
Image below.
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gerontocrat

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1824 on: February 13, 2018, 10:10:53 PM »
The image below from cci-reanalyzer suggests what may happen by 21 Feb (a bit of a way out, I know).

But if it happens (the SSW effect?) it will be a bit chilly across large parts of the USA, and warm as toast in the Bering Strait.
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Sleepy

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1825 on: February 14, 2018, 01:41:35 PM »
SSW yes. From last week a hindcast of ECMWF 20mb;
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2141.msg141274.html#msg141274
and forecast of 20mb and zonal mean winds:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2141.msg141326.html#msg141326

Attaching ECMWF forecast for 850mb and temp. Click on it to animate.

Southern Scandinavia might miss out on all of that fun. Also adding the last four days for Sweden.
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Alexander555

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1826 on: February 14, 2018, 06:17:50 PM »

Sigmetnow

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Re: Weird Weather and anecdotal stories about climate change
« Reply #1827 on: February 15, 2018, 09:36:00 PM »
Polar vortex split!

“Likely to put Western Europe and much of Eurasia into the deep freeze for the rest of February”

The polar vortex just split in two. Get ready for some wild weather from Europe to the U.S.
https://mashable.com/2018/02/15/polar-vortex-split-stratospheric-warming-snow-cold-europe-us
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