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magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1650 on: July 29, 2017, 04:04:16 PM »
o-buoy 14 further heading south at speed ;)

yesterdays position was 72.9 degrees north

todays position is 72.75 degrees north

in distance that means:

10.3 statute miles
_8.6 nautical miles
16.5 kilometers

that makes it about 0.6km/h not that bad a drift into soon open waters

___________________________________________________________________________

total distance south from original winter "quarters":

76 statute miles
66 nautical miles
122 kilometers
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 04:13:23 PM by magnamentis »

Tor Bejnar

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1651 on: July 29, 2017, 04:51:02 PM »
Current O-Buoy 14 location map and yesterday's Polar View image. (Click enlargement for larger image)

It is amazing the camera has been (foggy right now, so who knows?) showing a stable ice-floe view (with melt ponds), given the fragmentation around it.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 05:00:45 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1652 on: July 29, 2017, 09:54:45 PM »
@Tor Bejnar

that image with the buoy tracking could make some believe that the buoy is moving south-west while in fact it's moving straight southward with no significant movement to either east or west.

may i suggest to keep the images with north on the top as in any common map?

i'm sure that will improve readability of such maps/images.

Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1653 on: July 30, 2017, 11:53:27 AM »
may i suggest to keep the images with north on the top as in any common map?

May I remind you that common maps of the Arctic use a polar projection with the North Pole in the middle?

Here's the link Tor helpfully provided to the original source:

http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#overview/gpstracks

Perhaps you might suggest to the proprietors that they employ McClintock Channel down instead of Greenland down?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2017, 03:28:13 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1654 on: July 30, 2017, 03:26:08 PM »
Changes in the salinity of the channel are actually very important because the fresh water stored under the Beaufort high may be draining through the channel. In most previous years the Beaufort high pulled water and ice out of the channel. This year the more cyclonic circulation has pushed ice into the channel and water is clearly flowing southeastwards through it. It's fantastic to have a working buoy in the channel this summer when we might be having a push of Arctic ocean fresh water through it.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1655 on: July 30, 2017, 05:31:38 PM »
may i suggest to keep the images with north on the top as in any common map?

May I remind you that common maps of the Arctic use a polar projection with the North Pole in the middle?

Here's the link Tor helpfully provided to the original source:

http://obuoy.datatransport.org/monitor#overview/gpstracks

Perhaps you might suggest to the proprietors that they employ McClintock Channel down instead of Greenland down?

you may remind even though i'm aware, only once cuts a small fraction out of this the heading of a trajectory becomes invisible without consulting the bigger version of the same map.

however we settled that over PM and it was a friendly suggestion without any claims from my side, all is good and thanks for mentioning said fact just in case ;)

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1656 on: July 30, 2017, 06:07:27 PM »
Camera is clear. It seems top melt slowed in the last few days. Click.

Shared Humanity

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1657 on: July 30, 2017, 10:24:29 PM »
Looks like fresh snow.

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1658 on: July 31, 2017, 12:01:55 PM »
Pretty cool effect last night -- would you call this optical effect a halo, or...?

O-Buoy 14 is roughly at 72.45 degrees N. At this point of the year there's still 24 hour daylight at that latitude, but the first sunset is just a few days from now.

magnamentis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1659 on: July 31, 2017, 01:48:54 PM »
o-buoy 14 picking up speed

Tor Bejnar

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1660 on: July 31, 2017, 04:07:57 PM »
O-Buoy 14 location on July 31 and Polar View image from July 30.  Seeing where the buoy was on the 29th (via a previous post), I estimate the buoy is located on the floe within the red circle on the enlargement, and that the floe (and buoy) drifted to the left (which is southward) since this PolarView image was created (but it might be on any floe on the purple line - Edit: I moved the circle).  The purple line is an approximation of the path O'Buoy 14 has taken during the last day or so.  The red dot is where the buoy is 'now' (and a day after the image was taken). 

Someone else can tell us which way the O-Buoy 14 camera is pointing.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 04:41:58 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1661 on: July 31, 2017, 10:16:42 PM »
New reports from 2017A & 2017B are in. At both buoys surface melt has slowed down considerably or even stopped. With bottom melt it's a mixed picture. At 2017A the melt rate shows no change and assuming that this continues over the course of the next week, the ice at this location should be gone by then. By contrast 2017B reports a distinct reduction in melt rate, overall the thickness of this floe decreased only 7cm since the last report.

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1662 on: July 31, 2017, 10:26:49 PM »
New reports from 2017A & 2017B are in. At both buoys surface melt has slowed down considerably or even stopped. With bottom melt it's a mixed picture. At 2017A the melt rate shows no change and assuming that this continues over the course of the next week, the ice at this location should be gone by then. By contrast 2017B reports a distinct reduction in melt rate, overall the thickness of this floe decreased only 7cm since the last report.
Very interesting. The images from O-buoy 14 (though in an entirely different location) also seem to support a sharp slowdown of top melt since the weather became cloudy. Perhaps we will finally get a PIOMAS volume slowdown?

ghoti

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1663 on: July 31, 2017, 10:39:18 PM »
I'd say that the surface at 2017A stopped melting because it is water. There won't be any ice below the buoy next week. The surface around 2017A probably looks just like that around Obuoy 14 with the surface sensor hanging out over a pond.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1664 on: August 01, 2017, 02:41:00 AM »
What is odd about the plot of 2017A is that the surface now would have been below the waterline back in March!
The floe was just under 1m thick in March, so sea level would have been no lower than -0.1 (8/9 of the floe below water) We have of course seen before that the buoy slips relative to the ice when ice melts preferentially around the buoy stem (Jim has shown pictures). Often that results in a sudden jump in distances from top and bottom sounder.  Maybe this has happened more gradually here. Another explanation could be that the part of the floe on which the bouy sits has been lifted since March or tilted (through ridging)
This may be a bit too technical for many here, so what is the point of pointing it out? Apart from liking to understand what is going on whatever the result (i.e. science) I guess it is a warning to be on the look out for misinterpretations based on taking what the buoy sensors see as representative of all the ice in that vicinity.
Namely that means here: I don't think we find that much top melt averaged over a large ice area there. Beyond that it just leaves me with the feeling that arctic sea ice is incredibly slippery  ;D I always want to have more information. If only we could have had a colocated Obuoy.

ghoti

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1665 on: August 01, 2017, 03:46:50 AM »
The information on the 2017A page claims a bunch of colocated buoys including a webcam.

Quote
ID Code: 300234063536320
Date: March 9, 2017 - Present
Type: SIMB
Initial Location: Beaufort Sea
Deployment: UW-WARM Array
Co-located Instruments: 50m WARM Buoy, Side Kick Web cam, ICEX Drifting buoy, SVP

I have not had any success tracking down data or photos from any of those listed.


Peter Ellis

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1666 on: August 01, 2017, 11:29:41 AM »
What is odd about the plot of 2017A is that the surface now would have been below the waterline back in March!

You're overthinking it.  As the floe melts from the top it floats higher in the water.  The sounders are frozen into the floe, so they rise with it and they don't "see" this motion at all.

At the start of the year, sea surface level was at ~ -0.1 metres relative to the zero baseline.  Currently, sea surface level is at ~ -0.4 metres relative to the zero baseline, because the floe, sounders and baseline have all risen together.

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1667 on: August 01, 2017, 06:36:34 PM »
As far as I can tell, o-buoy 14 (black mark in upper left) is near the edge of high concentration ice, and may soon find itself with more open water around. Note Bremen map is from yesterday.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1668 on: August 01, 2017, 06:51:19 PM »
I have not had any success tracking down data or photos from any of those listed.

For photos try clicking on the pushpins at: https://sites.wp.odu.edu/BORG/current-projects/warm-buoy-maps/

They're uploaded in batches every week or two. Currently they seem to be displaying images from under the ice rather than above it!


« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 12:24:37 AM by Jim Hunt »
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1669 on: August 01, 2017, 08:06:03 PM »
Those photos are very helpful up until July 19th at least. The July 18th image shows a situation looking very similar to the Obuoy14 image. 2017A is now indicating less than 30cm of ice so I'd expect a similar around Obuoy 14.

We'll see if Obuoy14 breaks free of the ice soon.

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1670 on: August 01, 2017, 11:16:30 PM »
Thanks for the info ghoti and Jim!

Back to o-buoy 14, top melt has resumed despite the clouds, seen both in widening of watery areas as well as the near snow visibly changing. CLICK.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 11:33:48 PM by oren »

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1671 on: August 02, 2017, 08:43:06 AM »
Jim, that was a great find ! Thank you !
The latest image from that 2017A location appears to be this one from July 18 (76.924095,-152.562347) :

It is great to see an image from the Arctic other than Obuoy14.
It looks like the images after July 18 are from a different camera (the one below the surface, looking up). The file sizes are much smaller and even the file names are different :
https://sites.wp.odu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2017/07/
I hope they will continue to post images from above the surface, as they tell a great deal about the state of the ice in that location.
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1672 on: August 02, 2017, 05:02:49 PM »
Buoy14 camera updated again :-)
my guess would be, that even these small "waves" or ripples might increase melt at the edge of the ice
we're also seeing alot of tilt in the picture, is it save to assume that the buoy is floating now?

woodstea

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1673 on: August 02, 2017, 05:35:07 PM »
Buoy14 camera updated again :-)
my guess would be, that even these small "waves" or ripples might increase melt at the edge of the ice
we're also seeing alot of tilt in the picture, is it save to assume that the buoy is floating now?

Probably not at this point. If the buoy were completely free it would be able to rotate more quickly with changes in the wind direction than the ice floe, so we wouldn't see the same fixed view of the ice around it. But I'd guess the ice has thinned out quite a bit below the surface around the buoy, allowing it to tilt a bit.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1674 on: August 02, 2017, 06:14:15 PM »
awesome pic.
sometimes

Tor Bejnar

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1675 on: August 02, 2017, 09:06:21 PM »
The ripples imply surface wind and I think (this is not an area of expertise) this increases ice sublimation and melt.  I suspect the melt ponds are small/shallow enough for their solar gain to be quickly transferred to the ice (warming/melting it). 

Does the gentle lapping of ripples on the ice shore quicken pond expansion?
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Rob Dekker

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1676 on: August 03, 2017, 09:08:05 AM »
In that image from the WARM buoy for July 18
https://sites.wp.odu.edu/BORG/wp-content/uploads/sites/57/2017/07/001022276_00484.jpg

Is that the 2017A 'sounder' that we see there on the left ?
If so, note that it is standing in snow. Not in water.
Does that make sense, given the temp profile of 2017A ?
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1677 on: August 03, 2017, 09:57:44 AM »
Is that the 2017A 'sounder' that we see there on the left ?

A  qualified  "yes". 2017A is a "seasonal" ice mass balance buoy, so the thermistors, sounders, batteries etc. are all integrated into a single "pipe". Read all about it at:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/ice-mass-balance-buoys/

Quote
If so, note that it is standing in snow. Not in water. Does that make sense, given the temp profile of 2017A ?

The thermistors are attached to the lower, fatter portion of the buoy, and a fair few are exposed to the air in that image. Contrast with this one from June 20th:



If the buoy is "standing in snow" then it's fresh snow. For reference here's the temperature profile too:

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Jim Hunt

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1678 on: August 03, 2017, 10:32:11 AM »
The wind has dropped at O-Buoy 14.

A reflection of some Magritte style clouds?
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Tor Bejnar

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1679 on: August 03, 2017, 06:26:06 PM »
Annotated O-Buoy 14 location and azimuth record (from OBuoy website).

If the camera was pointing SSW when the buoy woke up (with Azimuth reading about 160Âş), now (with a reading of about 240Âş) is the camera pointing NNW?

(I don't know of any recent Polar View or Sentinel Playground images since July 30.)
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1680 on: August 03, 2017, 06:47:55 PM »
If the camera was pointing SSW when the buoy woke up (with Azimuth reading about 160Âş), now (with a reading of about 240Âş) is the camera pointing NNW?

Yes, I think so. If you zoom in on the photo in Chun_Kaoriina's post above on the morning of 8/2 (when the azimuth was a bit higher, perhaps even NNE), there is a little bump on the horizon toward the right side of the image. That might be the "Rawlinson Hills" marked on this map, but it could easily be any number of other things. I have no idea what the elevation of those hills is.

Also, I see that the Canadian Ice Service appears to be updating its "Western Arctic" ice charts that include the M'Clintock Channel. The latest charts are from 7/31, currently at the bottom of this page:

http://iceweb1.cis.ec.gc.ca/Prod/page2.xhtml?CanID=11081&lang=en&title=Western+Arctic

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1681 on: August 03, 2017, 07:45:32 PM »
Looks like the highest point in the Rawlinson Hills is just above 140 meters. There's also some ground in the 130-140 meter range very near the coast just behind a point called Cape Acworth, which would be my guess for a visible feature from the buoy's location. Here's a topo for that area (you'll need to click the "Continue to PDF" link):

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2012/rncan-nrcan/M116-2-068B11.pdf

This is just south of Cape Richard Collinson that appears in the small map above. Here's that topo:

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2012/rncan-nrcan/M116-2-068B14.pdf

Tor Bejnar

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1682 on: August 03, 2017, 08:47:34 PM »
Good eyes, woodstea! re the possible hill in the August 2 picture.  The extra 40Âş rotation yesterday would (by my reckoning) make the camera face nearly due north, which would make the Rawlinson Hills a likely choice.

Cropped scan of old fashioned paper paste-up combining the buoy location with the map of Prince of Wales Island (which has lines of longitude included).
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 09:29:26 PM by Tor Bejnar »
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1683 on: August 03, 2017, 11:01:17 PM »
Thanks! Here's the feature I'm talking about, btw.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1684 on: August 04, 2017, 12:06:41 AM »
2017A animation for (I guess) 4 weeks ending Jul 18th. Thanks to Rob Dekker for the image download link.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1685 on: August 04, 2017, 09:06:39 AM »
Thanks oren for that animation !
It appears to show that that location went through several cycles of thaw, refreeze and snow fall over the past 4 weeks.

Jim's 2017A temperature profile appears to sustain that : there are several dates with below freezing temperatures at the first thermistors.

However, the 2017A sounder data seems to suggest a nice gradual top-melt, without any refreeze cycles:



Interesting paradox, no ?
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1686 on: August 04, 2017, 09:48:03 AM »
However, the 2017A sounder data seems to suggest a nice gradual top-melt, without any refreeze
There's a lot of scatter in that data. Seems like a brief freeze and a few cm of snow wouldn't really register... What would you expect a refreeze to look like?
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1687 on: August 04, 2017, 10:18:01 AM »
OK. This top-melt graph shows a gradual loss of some 40 cm of ice after some 20 cm of snow. That is 60 cm of loss of 'altitude' from the top.

I cannot reconcile that with the animation by oren over the past month, since that shows no loss of altitude, but instead an alternating surface of snow and water.
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1688 on: August 04, 2017, 10:47:54 AM »
But how would you see a "loss of altitude" if all the ice in view is melting at about the same rate? Is there any landmark that wouldn't also be sinking?
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1689 on: August 04, 2017, 11:45:01 AM »
I agree that the animation doesn't "show" 40 cm of top ice loss, after the fast snow loss and appearance of melt ponds. The top does seem to be eaten slowly. Even though uniform top melt is hard to see, I would still think 40 cm would be more apparent.
One explanation could be that the buoy is in the melt pond, thus measuring a much faster melt rate.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1690 on: August 04, 2017, 12:05:38 PM »
I cannot reconcile that with the animation by oren over the past month, since that shows no loss of altitude, but instead an alternating surface of snow and water.

Unfortunately the ablation stakes fell over weeks ago, but surely that in itself is evidence of surface melt? And an occasional sprinkling of snow is only to be expected?

If you follow my suggestion of observing the "fat" part of 2017A that still seems to be embedded in the ice can you not see it's exposed length increasing as the weeks go by?
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1691 on: August 04, 2017, 02:25:13 PM »
I agree with Jim, the visible part of the thicker stem of the buoy exposed has become longer, at maximum snow depth it was almost completely covered. The other indication is the buoy with the conical top to its left. Initially we see its lower part partly covered in snow, then more snow cover. After the snow has melted away it is sitting on the ice and as the ice melts the distance from its top to the top of the IMB gets larger. I was skeptical about the rapidity of that top melt and noticed that bottom melt almost stalls during the steepest decline at the start of July, hence my suggestion the buoy might have slipped upward, thereby increasing the apparent top melt and making the bottom melt (which I would expect to be more steady) appear slower at the same time. The height of the buoy top above the horizon has increased since its deployment which supports that theory, but could also be explained by lowering of the camera by that top melt while the IMB remains fixed in the ice.
Thanks JIM for this excellent find, these images tell us so much more. I don't understand how you get the dates of the images though, does it relate to the file names, numbered from 00129 to 00453 for example?
Another thing I noticed: there is some movement of the distant buoys relative to the ablation stakes between image 00129 and image 00240. some shift along a crack between those it seems. Later the conical top buoy moves close to the IMB. If there are bits from that break floating about under the ice it would explain the intermittent readings from the bottom sounder.
More overthinking I guess, the ice is so thin now it could go quickly.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1692 on: August 04, 2017, 03:01:21 PM »
A while ago someone gave a link to a paper on water flow through the CAA, but I can't find it again.
The attached bathymetry http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011JC007261/full supports what I remember from that paper. The shallow depth where those islands lie across Parry channel directs part of the flow around Prince of Wales Island oddly south along its western side but north along the eastern side. This would mean the buoy is still heading for Lancaster sound. (The ice may well not last the trip though)
Victoria sound is ice free in the 3. Aug TERRA image btw.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1693 on: August 04, 2017, 04:33:47 PM »
I was skeptical about the rapidity of that top melt and noticed that bottom melt almost stalls during the steepest decline at the start of July, hence my suggestion the buoy might have slipped upward, thereby increasing the apparent top melt and making the bottom melt (which I would expect to be more steady) appear slower at the same time. The height of the buoy top above the horizon has increased since its deployment which supports that theory,
Nice overthoughts :)
Following this line of over-thought, then we can conclude that most of the melting observed is then bottom melt, with around 80 or 90 centimeters in July, being the surface melt just 10 centimeters or so more in agreement with the images that do not indeed show this buoy placed over a melt pond...

90 centimeters of bottom melt is 3 centimeters per day.

I estimate that the Pacific side will continue seeing bottom melting at these rates if storms keep vigorizing the processes required. I don't think much ice will survive below N80 in the Pacific side as is becoming the norm, it seems.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1694 on: August 04, 2017, 08:47:51 PM »
I don't understand how you get the dates of the images though, does it relate to the file names, numbered from 00129 to 00453 for example?

I get the dates by looking at the captions associated with the images on the BORG WARM page.

Victoria Hill has asked me to point out that the images of 2017A displayed above have been acquired by virtue of the National Science Foundation's support for project NSF OPP #1603548.

It seems that the above ice camera can float in extremis, but is currently pointing at the sky. With a bit of luck normal service will be resumed shortly.
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oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1695 on: August 04, 2017, 09:15:35 PM »
Good though cumbersome method. So the animation I have uploaded begins on June 22nd, ending on July 18th, 4 weeks as guessed.

oren

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1696 on: August 04, 2017, 10:42:42 PM »
Top melt (and camera sagging) continues visibly at o-buoy 14. I wonder how thick this floe is, or was at the beginning. CLICK.

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1697 on: August 05, 2017, 09:10:18 AM »
Thanks for the discussion on 2017A's top-melt profile and how it relates to the images sent by the WARM buoy at the same location. I tend to agree with many of you that we probably are over-thinking it. After all, many buoys melt a hole right around the stem, which drains any melt water to sea level, and thus a melting pond will not form around the buoy itself.
Also, it is clear that no matter the process (top or bottom melt) the ice at that location appears to be very thin right now.

For example, the co-located WARM buoy 6 (that holds the camera that documented 2017A) records being in open water. At least, somebody wrote "open water!" on the Aug 2 tag in Jim's tracker site :
https://sites.wp.odu.edu/BORG/current-projects/warm-buoy-maps/
Quote
Sidekick#2, WB#6 Aug 02 2017, 77.276106, -145.855897 - open water!

with this image of the buoy seen from below :


I looked into that WARM buoy a bit more, and found out that is actually a really COOL (pun intended) instrument !

I have not seen much reporting about WARM buoys on the ASIF, but essentially, it is a buoy with a 20 or 50 meter tether, with various sensors along the line. Here is a good overview of the system :
https://sites.wp.odu.edu/BORG/current-projects/temperature-and-irradiance-measurements-in-the-arctic/

One of the sensors is a camera, mounted 20 meters deep, looking upward, and that is the one that is producing the images at this time (like the one above from Aug 2). Jim, you mentioned that the 'above surface' camera is looking at the sky now, but how do you know that ?

But the thing that makes the WARM buoys REALLY cool (in my opinion) is that they have "irradiance" sensors at certain depths. These sensors record how much sunlight makes it through the ice. Here is the data for this particular WARM buoy :



Full data for this buoy is here :
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/UpTempO/BuoyInfo.php?cbuoy=9080&bname1=UpTempO%202017

Note that very little sunlight makes it through the ice before June. That is when there is still snow cover on the ice. But after that, irradiance moves up quickly, and during July we see 30-40 W/m^2 makes it through the ice, and we see that most of that heat gets absorbed in the top 20 meters of water below the ice. That is still above the halocline, which means that most of that heat will make it it causing bottom melt. And remember that 35 W/m^2 will cause about 1 cm/day of bottom melt.
This (30-40 W/m^2 shining through the ice) appears to be typical for July, when we look at other WARM buoy data.

So here we see a quantification of a main cause of Arctic sea ice bottom melt.

That's pretty awesome, no ?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 09:29:03 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1698 on: August 05, 2017, 12:35:55 PM »
That's pretty awesome, no ?
This forum is amazing!

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Re: What the Buoys are telling
« Reply #1699 on: August 05, 2017, 02:06:55 PM »
Jim, you mentioned that the 'above surface' camera is looking at the sky now, but how do you know that ?

I have been in correspondence with Victoria Hill:

https://www.odu.edu/news/2014/3/reserarch_in_arctic#.WYW0vbN4foc
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