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Author Topic: What drives wind, including the Jet Stream?  (Read 2672 times)


  • New ice
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What drives wind, including the Jet Stream?
« on: May 27, 2013, 06:11:53 PM »
Why does this group accept differential heating as a driver for wind and reject condensation induced atmospheric dynamics?

The conventional differential heating have failed to adequately predict ice melt in the Arctic and seasonal changes in the jet stream.  And yet, when Makarieva  et al offer up a model that suggests heat transport into the Arctic is at least an order of magnitude greater than the old theory forecast, Makarieva et al is ignored.

In the comments in the discussion paper, it is clear that Makarieva et al do not consider the case of condensation onto a cold surface as in a moist wind flowing over the GIS or sea ice.  I assert, that consideration of the surface condensation case generates meridional winds that better explain seasonal changes in the NH circulation than, say the Rossby wave modeling by  Dr. Francis.

I am sorry,  but I see convention weather theory as deeply flawed in its ability to quantitatively account for the effects of latent heat. Makarieva et al is not a finished product.  My copy is covered with notes in red and purple.  These out number my notes in green. However, when it has been folded into weather theory and well baked, we will have something that is better.

Makarieva, A. M., Gorshkov, V. G., Sheil, D., Nobre, A. D., and Li, B.-L.: Where do winds come from? A new theory on how water vapor condensation influences atmospheric pressure and dynamics, Atmos. Chem. Phys., 13, 1039-1056, doi:10.5194/acp-13-1039-2013, 2013. offer


  • Young ice
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Re: What drives wind, including the Jet Stream?
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 05:37:38 PM »
Satellite Observations of an Unusual Cloud Formation near the Tropopause
This paper describes observations of a field of deep and regular cloud formations that spans several hundreds of kilometers at the top of a midlatitude frontal system in the North Pacific storm track. Space-based imagery of the event from active and passive measurements reveals smooth, clearly defined cloud lobes approximately 10 km across and 2–4 km deep that resemble upside-down mammatus. These observations, together with theoretical arguments and prior modeling work, suggest that the lobes were part of a deepening turbulent mixed layer that formed as a consequence of strong cloud-top radiative cooling. Over the course of a day, the cloud-top formation evolved to leave behind a sheet of cumuliform cirrus that stretched hundreds of kilometers across. The potential is for such clouds to facilitate mixing across the tropopause, much as cloud-top cooling drives the entrainment of free-tropospheric air into stratocumulus-topped boundary layers.


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Re: What drives wind, including the Jet Stream?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2014, 07:24:29 AM »
regarding the sensationally headlined Makarieva-article, a review for the disinterested (this could be to an earlier version than the unlinked article in the opening post, though):

(differential heating model though works wrt sea and land breezes, and without seeing the original it's hard to say whether there's a grain of truth in some situations in there somewhere, anyway this wouöd be a job for more experienced people than me, note though that the earth's rotation and the conservation of momentum within the atmosphere makes up for a whole lot of wind.)

the link to the published version of the article advocated in the OP
« Last Edit: October 13, 2014, 07:57:11 AM by Pmt111500 »