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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2250 on: August 17, 2017, 04:27:46 PM »
When will advertisements for cars with tailpipes be banned as health hazards? Poll results
Just 30 years ago, people could smoke anywhere, including offices, malls, and restaurants.

The 1987 opening of a New York City restaurant called "Nosmo King" (read it again) was considered a bizarre, if amusing, idea that restauranteurs said would bankrupt the place because no one would give up cigarettes to eat there.

Now, throughout much of the Western world, smoking in public is banned as a health hazard to everyone else who's exposed to secondhand smoke—including the wait staff in those restaurants.

Environmentalists have begun to raise the same issue on a global scale for the carbon dioxide emissions emitted by road vehicles with internal combustion engines. ...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112133_when-will-ads-for-cars-with-tailpipes-be-banned-as-health-hazards-poll-results


When will we see 'tailpipes' on cars as morally wrong?
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101015_when-will-we-start-to-see-tailpipes-on-cars-as-morally-wrong
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2251 on: August 17, 2017, 04:37:56 PM »
When will we see 'tailpipes' on cars as morally wrong?

I don't know about morally wrong but what we seem to be seeing is a growing understanding of the damage done to our bodies by fossil fuel pollution.  And a smaller, but growing, awareness of the financial cost of fossil fuel pollution.

This awareness should be a significant driver assisting the move to renewable energy.

Something that each of us, as individuals, can do with little effort is to spread knowledge about the health and financial costs of fossil fuel pollution and how renewable energy both allows us to use less fossil fuels plus brings us less expensive electricity.  And how we can start moving to EVs which will also help clean our air.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2252 on: August 17, 2017, 05:09:26 PM »
When will advertisements for cars with tailpipes be banned as health hazards? Poll results
Just 30 years ago, people could smoke anywhere, including offices, malls, and restaurants.

The 1987 opening of a New York City restaurant called "Nosmo King" (read it again) was considered a bizarre, if amusing, idea that restauranteurs said would bankrupt the place because no one would give up cigarettes to eat there.

Now, throughout much of the Western world, smoking in public is banned as a health hazard to everyone else who's exposed to secondhand smoke—including the wait staff in those restaurants.

Environmentalists have begun to raise the same issue on a global scale for the carbon dioxide emissions emitted by road vehicles with internal combustion engines. ...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112133_when-will-ads-for-cars-with-tailpipes-be-banned-as-health-hazards-poll-results


When will we see 'tailpipes' on cars as morally wrong?
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101015_when-will-we-start-to-see-tailpipes-on-cars-as-morally-wrong


After 30 years I can still drive 25 miles and find restaurants that welcome the smoking public, and I'm quite sure that we don't have the luxury of a 30 year adjustment period.


If we had acted on Hanson's warnings from 30+ years ago we might have found a way out. When Reagan laughed at Jimmy's sweaters and tossed out the White House solar system, the die was cast. Trump or Pence will see to it that all our bridges have been burned, and with them any hope of societal survival.


I prefer being slowly broiled to nuclear winter, but it's unclear that the generations that follow will appreciate my efforts on their behalf.


Terry

crandles

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2253 on: August 17, 2017, 06:48:16 PM »
When will advertisements for cars with tailpipes be banned as health hazards? Poll results
Just 30 years ago, people could smoke anywhere, including offices, malls, and restaurants.

The 1987 opening of a New York City restaurant called "Nosmo King" (read it again) was considered a bizarre, if amusing, idea that restauranteurs said would bankrupt the place because no one would give up cigarettes to eat there.

Now, throughout much of the Western world, smoking in public is banned as a health hazard to everyone else who's exposed to secondhand smoke—including the wait staff in those restaurants.

Environmentalists have begun to raise the same issue on a global scale for the carbon dioxide emissions emitted by road vehicles with internal combustion engines. ...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112133_when-will-ads-for-cars-with-tailpipes-be-banned-as-health-hazards-poll-results


When will we see 'tailpipes' on cars as morally wrong?
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101015_when-will-we-start-to-see-tailpipes-on-cars-as-morally-wrong


After 30 years I can still drive 25 miles and find restaurants that welcome the smoking public, and I'm quite sure that we don't have the luxury of a 30 year adjustment period.


If we had acted on Hanson's warnings from 30+ years ago we might have found a way out. When Reagan laughed at Jimmy's sweaters and tossed out the White House solar system, the die was cast. Trump or Pence will see to it that all our bridges have been burned, and with them any hope of societal survival.


I prefer being slowly broiled to nuclear winter, but it's unclear that the generations that follow will appreciate my efforts on their behalf.


Terry

So it yet banned even in restaurants where you are. I feel sorry for you.

Anyway this means it isn't yet banned for you. The timeframe you are using is from first occurrence of voluntary attempt to time of bann in most of western world. Why assume it would be the same time period for cars? It simply need not be 25 years before sales of cars with tailpipes are banned.

One difference between smoking and ICE cars is that it is cheaper and not essential to smoke, however electric cars are more expensive and some travel is essential. Consequently I can see reasons for such a movement not gaining much ground for the next couple of years. Fortunately it may not be much longer before electric cars are cheaper and then there is no reason for sales not to be banned in fairly short order along the same lines. Indeed Norway is already talking about banning ICE cars by 2025. If all countries did so, we might have difficulty in making enough electric cars by 2025. The more this is talked about, the more car companies will realise it is coming and prepare and the sooner it will happen.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2254 on: August 17, 2017, 07:13:22 PM »
It's not clear that we will have to ban ICEVs (although it would be to our benefit).

I'm putting the probability of self-driven EVs giving us robotaxis at at least 85%. 

If that happens we are likely to see a very rapid decline in miles driven per year in ICEVs.  As miles driven fall we'll start to see a collapse of gas/diesel infrastructure.  Filling stations will decline in number and be less convenient.  It will get harder to find repair shops for ICEVs. 

With robotaxis we could probably easily get away with banning ICEVs (excepting grandfathering in ICEVs currently owned by residents) and requiring people with ICEVs to park outside the city and robotaxi in.

If EVs become cheaper to purchase than same-feature ICEVs (almost certain) and robotaxis appear (highly likely) the dirty tailpipe problem will take care of itself.  People will quit buying ICEVs and those who own one will probably not bother making expensive repairs so most ICEVs won't last much longer than 10-12 years.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2255 on: August 17, 2017, 07:14:05 PM »
crandles
I should have been clearer. There is a Mohawk reserve ~25 miles south of here. They are exempt from, or at least act as though they are exempt from some laws that Ontario has passed. One of these laws has to do with smoking in restaurants.
On my last trip Stateside I was surprised by the number of states that hadn't even separated smoking/non-smoking sections yet. That was however a few years ago and things may have changed.


Once service stations pumps are shuttered, the vehicles they refueled will be on a very short leash. Pinching off gas and/or diesel is easy. Providing alternative vehicles and recharging them is the bottleneck.
Terry

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2256 on: August 17, 2017, 07:29:32 PM »
Providing alternative vehicles and recharging them is the bottleneck.

It's being solved.

When Tesla is producing EVs at a 500k/year rate (within a few months) and has over 15,000 rapid charging systems (within a year) and starts talking more frequently about building a million EVs per year other manufacturers will have no option except to jump in (or disappear).

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2257 on: August 19, 2017, 05:01:49 PM »
The Hyundai IONIQ EV is... efficient.  And a normal-looking car.  And starts around $30,000.
...If you can find one.

The Electrek Review – Hyundai IONIQ Electric extended test
Availability

As of now, the IONIQ Electric is only available in California in the US and a few other markets.  And when I say “available,” I mean “sold out because they made a really great car at a great price and then didn’t order enough batteries to make enough of them, and when they noticed demand was overshooting estimates by at least 2x, they increased production by 50% which is still obviously not enough, so get with it Hyundai and make a lot more of this great car.”

There’s a facebook group with several posts from new owners who have just taken delivery of their cars, often met with comments from envious prospective owners who are eagerly awaiting their backordered car.  This is nothing new in the “early adopter of a new EV model” scene, but Hyundai’s miscalculation seems palpable here.  On specs alone this car shatters the entire entry-level EV market, and when looks and practicality and completeness of the package, along with Hyundai’s innovative financing model, are taken into account, it seems a no-brainer that this car would sell more than 6-7k units, even just in California.

So I am loathe to use the “C” word to describe this great little car, but with low numbers and only California availability currently (at least in the US), Hyundai might be thinking that the EV version of this model will be sold for compliance (*gasp*) whereas their main focus for nation- and worldwide rollout would be the hybrid version. I do hope that this is not their intent, as this car is a great value and I believe offering it only in certain markets/small numbers would be a mistake. But my local dealerships are stocked to the gills with hybrid IONIQs with nary an all-electric version in sight, or even on the radar. “You can leave your name and we can call you when one comes in, but they’re usually already spoken for once they get here” said the dealership just miles away from Hyundai USA headquarters (paraphrased).
Hyundai’s financing scheme is quite interesting too.  The car is available with a $275/month, zero-down (after CA state rebates) “subscription” model, which differs from a lease in that it has no mileage restrictions and includes just about every cost you can imagine associated with car ownership – including tires and even the cost of charging. Leases are popular with EVs because the lessor takes the credit and rolls it into reduced lease payments for the car, so you don’t have to worry about your current tax liability. This is especially important for people buying a more entry-level car like the IONIQ, who might not have $7,500 in federal tax liability in any given year, as the credit is non-refundable and cannot be rolled forward into future tax years (it’s “use it or lose it”). ...
https://electrek.co/2017/08/18/electrek-review-hyundai-ioniq-electric-extended-test/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2258 on: August 19, 2017, 09:37:57 PM »
Dieselgate.

U.S. Recommends Three-Year Prison Term for Ex-VW Engineer
U.S. prosecutors are recommending a three-year prison term for the former Volkswagen AG engineer who was the first person charged in the automaker’s diesel-emissions cheating scandal, citing his cooperation as a reason not to give him the maximum five years.

James Liang, who is scheduled to be sentenced in Detroit on Aug. 25, pleaded guilty in September to conspiring to defraud U.S. customers and regulators. Although he wasn’t the mastermind behind VW’s fraud, he was a key participant in pivotal events, the Justice Department said in court papers Friday.

"Liang knew that what he was doing was wrong, but minimized his own moral responsibility for the fraud by reassuring himself that he was merely an engineer whose job it was to present practical solutions to problems, regardless of their propriety," prosecutors said. "He told himself that others in the company were responsible for deciding whether ethical considerations should influence which course to take."...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-08-18/u-s-seeks-3-year-jail-term-for-ex-vw-engineer-in-diesel-probe


Let's hope this case will inspire new suits against fossil fuel companies.
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2259 on: August 21, 2017, 07:11:22 AM »
Dieselgate.

U.S. Recommends Three-Year Prison Term for Ex-VW Engineer
U.S. prosecutors are recommending a three-year prison term for the former Volkswagen AG engineer who was the first person charged in the automaker’s diesel-emissions cheating scandal, citing his cooperation as a reason not to give him the maximum five years.

James Liang, who is scheduled to be sentenced in Detroit on Aug. 25, pleaded guilty in September to conspiring to defraud U.S. customers and regulators. Although he wasn’t the mastermind behind VW’s fraud, he was a key participant in pivotal events, the Justice Department said in court papers Friday.

"Liang knew that what he was doing was wrong, but minimized his own moral responsibility for the fraud by reassuring himself that he was merely an engineer whose job it was to present practical solutions to problems, regardless of their propriety," prosecutors said. "He told himself that others in the company were responsible for deciding whether ethical considerations should influence which course to take."...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-08-18/u-s-seeks-3-year-jail-term-for-ex-vw-engineer-in-diesel-probe


Let's hope this case will inspire new suits against fossil fuel companies.


I do so hope than none of the Ford or GM engineers are planning vacations in Germany. :)
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2260 on: August 21, 2017, 06:31:08 PM »
California added 1,300 fuel cell hydrogen vehicles over the last year – projections lowered again
https://electrek.co/2017/08/21/california-fuel-cell-hydrogen-vehicles/

As Electrek says:
The question remains: when are they going to give up? They keep lowering their projections as the hydrogen supply chain stays inefficient compared to battery-powered EVs and the grid delivery. Furthermore,  there’s no reason to believe that those latest projections will not be lowered again.

As we have often explained before, the entire end-to-end process from production to consumption is 3x times more energy efficient for battery-powered vehicles than hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2261 on: August 22, 2017, 01:40:49 AM »
Notice that EVs get charged with transmission losses and hydrogen doesn't.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2262 on: August 23, 2017, 04:58:35 PM »
Nikola Motors still claims its hydrogen-powered semi-trucks will be built -- starting low volume in 2020.  They say they will build 376 hyrogen fuel station throughout the U.S.  And bad-mouth the Tesla truck, even though its specs have not been revealed.  (Happening next month!) 

Nikola Tweaks Hydrogen Truck Design, Raises Funding
https://www.trucks.com/2017/06/26/nikola-electric-truck-redesign/

2020 is a long way away, in sustainable transport years.  The market will look much different by then.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2263 on: August 23, 2017, 05:04:36 PM »
California’s Car Culture Is Slowing the State's Emissions Cuts
The state’s overall greenhouse gas emissions are falling while its economy grows, but longer commutes and cheap gas are boosting vehicle emissions.
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/22082017/california-greenhouse-gas-emissions-decoupling-economy-electric-car-culture


If Musk's early tunnel projects go well, California will be a big booster.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2264 on: August 23, 2017, 06:01:17 PM »
Why the Trump Administration's Latest Auto Industry Move Will Fail
In my view, the singular reason why the industry cannot — almost reflexively — focus on the future and stop fighting the old fights is the age-old conflict between short- term and long-term profits. This is exacerbated by the industry’s addiction to the disproportionate profitability of SUVs versus cars. The reality is there may not be a long term for some auto manufacturers unless they continue to focus all their collective energies on a low-carbon future.
http://time.com/4906656/donald-trump-auto-industy-pollution/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2265 on: August 23, 2017, 06:51:18 PM »
Why the Trump Administration's Latest Auto Industry Move Will Fail
In my view, the singular reason why the industry cannot — almost reflexively — focus on the future and stop fighting the old fights is the age-old conflict between short- term and long-term profits. This is exacerbated by the industry’s addiction to the disproportionate profitability of SUVs versus cars. The reality is there may not be a long term for some auto manufacturers unless they continue to focus all their collective energies on a low-carbon future.
http://time.com/4906656/donald-trump-auto-industy-pollution/

What Americans drive tends to run in fads.  I'm getting the feeling that the 'big SUV' fad is starting to fade.  What I'm seeing are more and more crossovers.  Smaller, easier to drive/park vehicles that still offer a lot of cargo space.

Driving a large vehicle is a PITA.

A tremendous amount of American decisions seem to be determined by "No one wears/drives/eats that/goes there anymore."

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 06:56:27 PM by Bob Wallace »

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2266 on: August 23, 2017, 09:30:38 PM »
A modest-sized factory, but it is being built to produce EV parts.  And it will be in Detroit, Michigan!
Note: LG currently makes essentially all of the electrical components in the Chevy Bolt.

LG to build US factory for electric car parts after seeing 43% growth ‘thanks to Chevy Bolt EV’
https://electrek.co/2017/08/23/lg-us-factory-electric-car-parts-chevy-bolt-ev/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2267 on: August 23, 2017, 09:56:37 PM »
 ;D The market for big electric trucks must be really hot, if this startup thinks it can get away with this obvious scam!  ::)

A startup wraps a diesel truck in camouflage and claims ‘first all-electric semi truck’
https://electrek.co/2017/08/23/startup-diesel-truck-camouflage-electric-semi-truck/
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2268 on: August 23, 2017, 10:24:37 PM »
;D The market for big electric trucks must be really hot, if this startup thinks it can get away with this obvious scam!  ::)

A startup wraps a diesel truck in camouflage and claims ‘first all-electric semi truck’
https://electrek.co/2017/08/23/startup-diesel-truck-camouflage-electric-semi-truck/

Think about the market for self-driving electric trucks.  I can't verify this data but someone who seems credible stated that the fuel cost per mile for a diesel tractor is about $0.55.  And a team-driven truck costs about $0.55/mile in labor costs. 

A self-driven truck would probably have fuel costs  half that of diesels and no labor cost.  A self-driven truck could operate over 20 hours per day (time out for charging) while a team can drive legally 20 hours a day.  At an average of 50 MPH x 20 hours trucks could make 1,000 miles per day.  And a self-driving battery powered truck could save around $700 per day of operation.


Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2269 on: August 24, 2017, 01:54:10 AM »
Diesel in Germany: can't live with it, can't live without it.

Merkel Aide Says Germany Has ‘Vital Interest’ in Diesel Survival
> Environment ministry scrutinizes effect of diesel measures
> Merkel to meet with cities suffering from diesel pollution
Diesel software updates alone are “insufficient” for many cities to meet the legal limit for nitrogen oxides in the air, Environment Minister Barbara Hendricks told reporters on Wednesday, citing ministry tests conducted this month. Excessive pollution impacts 70 German towns and cities, and the fixes agreed earlier this month would cut car emissions by a maximum of 6 percent, she said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-23/merkel-ally-says-germany-has-vital-interest-in-diesel-survival
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2270 on: August 24, 2017, 02:23:14 AM »
Don't worry.  As soon as one of the German car companies invents the long range electric car Germany will see a path off diesel.

AbruptSLR

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« Reply #2271 on: August 25, 2017, 03:08:20 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars".

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2272 on: August 25, 2017, 06:13:45 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars".

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

Obviously a process that we need to clean up.  And apparently we can clean up the supply of nickel via  recycling and reusing.

Now, put that into context.  Compare the problems with nickel to oil extraction, processing and use.

gerontocrat

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« Reply #2273 on: August 25, 2017, 06:44:20 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars".

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

Obviously a process that we need to clean up.  And apparently we can clean up the supply of nickel via  recycling and reusing.

Now, put that into context.  Compare the problems with nickel to oil extraction, processing and use.
New Caledonia did, and may still, have nickel as its main source of revenue. One did not speak of pollution into the ocean from the mining operation.
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2274 on: August 25, 2017, 08:59:00 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars".

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

Obviously a process that we need to clean up.  And apparently we can clean up the supply of nickel via  recycling and reusing.

Now, put that into context.  Compare the problems with nickel to oil extraction, processing and use.
New Caledonia did, and may still, have nickel as its main source of revenue. One did not speak of pollution into the ocean from the mining operation.

I feel strongly that we need to clean up mining and manufacturing around the world.  But we need to not allow the fossil fuel and nuclear industries use "typical" bad mining procedures in a selective manner to attack renewable energy and EVs.

If RE or EVs have a problem specific to them alone then, fine, that's a legitimate criticism.  But if the attack is over steel or copper it's a bogus attack.  The majority of those materials go for other uses.

gerontocrat

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« Reply #2275 on: August 25, 2017, 09:22:04 PM »
The linked article is entitled: "Nickel mining: the hidden environmental cost of electric cars".

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/aug/24/nickel-mining-hidden-environmental-cost-electric-cars-batteries

Obviously a process that we need to clean up.  And apparently we can clean up the supply of nickel via  recycling and reusing.

Now, put that into context.  Compare the problems with nickel to oil extraction, processing and use.
New Caledonia did, and may still, have nickel as its main source of revenue. One did not speak of pollution into the ocean from the mining operation.

I feel strongly that we need to clean up mining and manufacturing around the world.  But we need to not allow the fossil fuel and nuclear industries use "typical" bad mining procedures in a selective manner to attack renewable energy and EVs.

If RE or EVs have a problem specific to them alone then, fine, that's a legitimate criticism.  But if the attack is over steel or copper it's a bogus attack.  The majority of those materials go for other uses.
And how does one make a multinational mining operation behave well. Politicians come cheap.
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2276 on: August 25, 2017, 09:41:37 PM »
how does one make a multinational mining operation behave well

There are ways.  Buying from only 'green' sources or charging pollution/bad practice tariffs would be a couple of ways.  But let's treat this as a problem for all industry that uses these materials as feedstock and not allow them to be used as a cudgel against RE and EVs.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2277 on: August 29, 2017, 05:08:12 PM »
More EVs for China.  Amazing what an "8% of sales by 2018 and 12% by 2020" directive from the world's largest market can do, even despite onerous joint-venture company requirements.

Nissan and Renault announce a new joint-venture to produce electric vehicles in China
https://electrek.co/2017/08/29/nissan-renault-joint-venture-electric-vehicles-china/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2278 on: August 29, 2017, 05:18:12 PM »
U.K. study.

Electric car emissions slashed by two thirds as electricity generation goes green
“For example, producing the electricity to charge a Tesla Model S back in 2012 would have created 124g of carbon per km driven. Nowadays emissions from charging the same car have halved to 74g per km driven in winter and just 41g per km in summer – thanks to the decarbonisation of electricity generation in the UK.”
https://electrek.co/2017/08/28/electric-car-emissions-electricity-generation-goes-green/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2279 on: August 29, 2017, 07:41:00 PM »
There will be battery recycling -- at the Tesla gigafactory, for one. In the meantime, using degraded battery packs to provide fast charging in remote areas without a robust grid system is a great idea.

Renault installs electric car charging stations powered by used EV battery packs
https://electrek.co/2017/08/29/renault-electric-car-charging-stations-used-ev-battery-packs/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2280 on: August 30, 2017, 12:52:55 AM »
Too bad there's not more EV stock available for those who will be looking to replace their flooded cars.

A half-million flooded cars and trucks could be scrapped after Hurricane Harvey
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/29/a-half-million-flooded-cars-and-trucks-could-be-scrapped.html
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2281 on: August 30, 2017, 01:08:39 AM »
Finnish Tesla Model S taxi driver crosses 400,000 km, 93% of battery capacity remains
http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-s-400k-km-250k-mi-7-percent-battery-degradation/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2282 on: August 30, 2017, 01:17:20 AM »
Used diesel demand drops in Germany over fear of software upgrades
Diesel-powered cars, long a staple on European roads, are starting to lose favor as million of dollars of inventory begins to pile up in used diesel models.

The inventory, largely recent models certified under the superseded Euro-5 emission standards, has boomed recently over the possibility the cars will not meet future emission limits to be enacted in German cities.

German automakers and their various brands—BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Volkswagen and more—have responded to the tougher regulations with diesel software-update initiatives.

Even with the updates, which German automakers claim would let the cars exceed current emission requirements, it may not be enough, per German officials.

German Environment Minister Barbara Hendricks said the planned software upgrades are “insufficient” for many cities as they work to curb air pollution, according to Bloomberg.

With regulators casting a cloud of doubt over the proposed software updates, it's left $5.3 billion worth of diesel cars sitting on dealership lots unsold—some of them as new as 2015 models.

To make matters worse, a sample poll of German diesel-vehicle owners showed 29 percent of them planned to sell their diesel cars as soon as possible as their values continue to fall and cities ponder diesel-vehicle bans.
...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112360_used-diesel-demand-drops-in-germany-over-fear-of-software-upgrades
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2283 on: August 30, 2017, 01:40:35 AM »
Cummins Unveils Class 7 Electric Truck Concept
The AEOS uses a 140 KWh battery pack instead of a 12-liter engine. The weight of the electric powertrain is roughly equal to that of the removed engine, aftertreatment, transmission and fuel tank. The concept truck has a range of about 100 miles on a single charge for city driving that’s extendable to 300 miles with additional battery packs. The powertrain and truck will enable Cummins to learn more about the potential electrification holds for larger vehicles.

A regenerative braking system and the potential for solar panels on the trailer roof can send energy to the battery pack. Air drag is reduced by replacing side mirrors with an in-dash camera system. The truck achieves a significant air drag reduction via its highly streamlined design as well as a better sealed truck body and underbody – with no front radiator intrusion.

The AEOS can be recharged in about an hour at a 140 kWh charging station, and Cummins’ goal is to get that down to 20 minutes by 2020, reducing down time for its business customers. Production begins in 2019.

Cummins in June announced that it would start producing electric powertrains by 2019. The company’s Tuesday unveiling of AEOS was another major step in Cummins’ evolution, company officials said.
http://electriccarsreport.com/2017/08/cummins-unveils-class-7-electric-truck-concept/
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« Reply #2284 on: August 30, 2017, 02:25:18 AM »
No stinky exhaust or no loud noise. I'm not sure what I like more about an electric truck.
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« Reply #2285 on: August 30, 2017, 04:43:11 AM »
Exhaust, hands down -- that's what's killing us the most, both short term and long term.

The noise is a happy bonus though.

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« Reply #2286 on: August 30, 2017, 06:41:43 AM »
Used diesel demand drops in Germany over fear of software upgrades

Sigmetnow,

and in my opinion this 'fear' is for good reasons. Two of my friends here in Germany had the software of their car (VW and Skoda) updated and a couple of 1000 km later the car broke down with a damaged EGR. In both cases it happened far away from home, so both had a hard time getting to their final destination.

EGR is a really tricky thing anyway, but there seems to be an issue with the software update and the EGR.


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« Reply #2287 on: August 30, 2017, 08:35:45 AM »
No stinky exhaust or no loud noise. I'm not sure what I like more about an electric truck.

Cheaper to "fuel" and maintain.

Musk said, after driving the Tesla semi around for awhile that it handles like a sports car.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2288 on: August 31, 2017, 03:57:45 PM »
 You can be sure Tesla is watching the data on the Tesloop cars very closely.  :)

A Tesla Model S hits 300,000 miles in just 2 years – saving an estimated $60,000 on fuel and maintenance
There’s no one taking full advantage of Tesla’s unlimited mileage warranty and relatively free Supercharger network like Tesloop, a transport company offering rides exclusively in Tesla vehicles in California.

One of their vehicles, a Model S, has reached 300,000 miles yesterday and they now shared their experience with the electric car.
...
The company provides ride between cities like LA, San Diego, Orange County and Palm Springs, and they almost exclusively rely on Tesla’s Superchargers to charge their vehicles, which is free – or more precisely included in the price of the vehicle.
...
https://electrek.co/2017/08/30/tesla-model-s-hits-300000-miles-in-just-2-years-saving/

Yes, Tesloop is mooching off Tesla for its fuel.  But Tesla dropped the "free supercharging for life" guarantee earlier this year for all new Teslas except those purchased with a current-owner referral, so the "free supercharging" fleet is no longer growing significantly.  (You can buy a used Tesla and still continue with its benefit, however!)
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« Reply #2289 on: August 31, 2017, 04:30:04 PM »
This is the first Tesla S to drive 200,000 miles.  At 200,000 miles the battery pack still had 94% capacity.  Tesla swapped out the pack for a new one, I suppose to evaluate the cells.


edited:  The software in the car had not been set up to deal with mileages higher than 200k.  It was quicker for Tesla to give the company a new battery pack than to update the software.

The range indicator was projecting estimated remaining miles inaccurately, causing the Tesla to power down shortly before it was out of miles. Tesla explained that this is caused by a change in the state of battery chemicals due to the high mileage. The car’s computer wasn’t set up to account for the change, but Tesloop was assured that a simple “over-the-air” software update would be a quick fix. Since the update wasn’t going to be ready for a few months, Tesla replaced the battery


A few days ago we heard of a Tesla S used as a taxi has now driven 240,000 (400,000 km) miles and the batteries still have 93% capacity remaining.

This high capacity retention makes the idea of using batteries removed from worn out cars good grid storage batteries sound more reasonable.  After some number of miles bodies and interiors are going to be trashed and the junked cars should be a good source of cheap batteries for applications where weight and size is not as important as it is in EVs.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2017, 05:17:09 PM by Bob Wallace »

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2290 on: August 31, 2017, 06:56:39 PM »
U.K.:  A large network of 413 gas stations is deploying electric car fast-charging stations at all locations

"Motor Fuel Group"
Jeremy Clarke, MFG’s chief operating officer, said about the announcement:

“We are delighted to be extending our fuel offer to customers. The growth of the electric and hybrid vehicle market is an important part of the fuel mix going forward. MFG is determined to be at the forefront of this technology, satisfying this growing demand.”

What is most interesting is that they confirmed that the charge points will be DC fast-chargers with a capacity of 50 kW or more.
https://electrek.co/2017/08/31/large-network-gas-stations-adding-electric-car-chargers/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2291 on: August 31, 2017, 08:31:44 PM »
Only a diesel lobbying group would push for "clean diesel" funding. ::)  Electric semi trucks will soon be the solution obvious to all.

CA should use VW mitigation funds for cleaner diesel trucks to cut NOx: diesel lobbying group
California is set to receive a lump sum of funds from the Volkswagen Environmental Mitigation Trust following its diesel emission scandal.

With  $423 million at the state's discretion, groups are lobbying hard to ensure the funds are used to have an immediate and positive impact on the environment and air quality.

One diesel lobbying group believes the best way to combat emissions in the short run is to allocate a large portion of the funds to replace the state's old and dirty diesel-powered semi trucks. ...
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1112415_ca-should-use-vw-mitigation-funds-for-cleaner-diesel-trucks-to-cut-nox-diesel-lobbying-group
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2292 on: August 31, 2017, 08:59:15 PM »
<Yes, we know, we are way behind.  We like hydrogen so much better!>

Honda plans to launch two fully electric cars in 2018. One will launch in China, and the other will likely launch in Europe.
http://www.businessinsider.com/honda-to-launch-2-electric-cars-by-2018-2017-8

Honda is aiming for two-thirds of its vehicles to be electrified by 2030.

From February 2016:
Honda CEO: Two-Thirds Of All New Honda Cars Will Be Battery Electric, Plug-in Hybrid Or Hydrogen Electric By 2030
https://transportevolved.com/2016/02/24/honda-ceo-two-thirds-of-all-new-honda-cars-will-be-battery-electric-plug-in-hybrid-or-hydrogen-electric-by-2030/
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2293 on: August 31, 2017, 10:15:35 PM »
Let's see what Tesla brings us in the form of a semi- tractor.

If it's as good as Tesla's other products CA should use VW mitigation funds for subsidizing battery powered 18-wheelers and get the ball rolling.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2294 on: September 01, 2017, 02:49:23 AM »
Let's see what Tesla brings us in the form of a semi- tractor.

If it's as good as Tesla's other products CA should use VW mitigation funds for subsidizing battery powered 18-wheelers and get the ball rolling.

September 28! 8)
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2295 on: September 01, 2017, 02:56:00 AM »
EU rolls out stricter car emissions test
(Reuters) - New on-road car emissions testing comes into force in the European Union on Friday as regulators strive to prevent a repeat of Volkswagen's (VOWG_p.DE) diesel emissions scandal.

The German carmaker's admission in September 2015 that it used software to cheat U.S. diesel emission tests highlighted the laxness of the EU's own tests, prompting reforms.

The new process, known as Real Driving Emissions (RDE), is designed to reflect everyday driving conditions and to narrow the disparity between road and laboratory test results.

Until now only laboratory tests have been used as the benchmark for assessing vehicle emissions, with carmakers employing a variety of strategies - such as taping up doors and windows - to produce better results than possible on the road.

Carmakers had lobbied for a three-year delay to the rules that will reduce the fuel-saving claims they can make for their vehicles, an industry paper seen by Reuters showed. ...
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1BB1BA


Excellent!  Now, if they would fix their NEDC estimates to reflect real-world driving range, we'd be set....
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« Reply #2296 on: September 01, 2017, 05:41:51 AM »
Let's see what Tesla brings us in the form of a semi- tractor.

If it's as good as Tesla's other products CA should use VW mitigation funds for subsidizing battery powered 18-wheelers and get the ball rolling.

September 28! 8)

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WRIGHTSPEED RANGE-EXTENDED ELECTRIC POWERTRAINS
WORK JUST AS HARD USING HALF THE FUEL.

Useful systems as part of the transition.

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« Reply #2297 on: September 01, 2017, 07:24:48 AM »
Let's see what Tesla brings us in the form of a semi- tractor.

If it's as good as Tesla's other products CA should use VW mitigation funds for subsidizing battery powered 18-wheelers and get the ball rolling.

September 28! 8)

contact@wrightspeed.com
WRIGHTSPEED RANGE-EXTENDED ELECTRIC POWERTRAINS
WORK JUST AS HARD USING HALF THE FUEL.

Useful systems as part of the transition.


PHEV long haul trucks wouldn't save much fuel.  Or you'd have to stop very often and charge up the little battery pack.

It looked like PHEV cars would be a good idea, at least until batteries dropped low enough in price.  The Volt seems to be a very good car and if PHEVs like that were all we had we could probably cut personal fuel use by 85%.

But the cost of battery cells has come down.  Extremely fast.  Not that many years back EV batteries were around $1,000/kWh and we know that they are at lease $145/kWh now if not lower.  And will likely be around $100/kWh when the Gigafactory is running efficiently.

Here's a graphic that shows at what battery and gas prices PHEVs are a good idea.



Semi-expensive gas and fairly expensive batteries.  Keep the battery pack small to save battery money, use gas only for those few times one drives beyond battery range.  Great idea if the economics are lined up.  But they are no longer.

We're clearly under $300/kWh for battery packs.  And we probably won't see gasoline above $3.50/gallon again.  (Barring some major disturbance such as major war.)

Wrightspeed PHEpickups may sell to some extent.  At least until we see some fully battery powered pickups on the market.  Long term plug in hybrids can't compete.  Batteries will soon be at a price point where nothing else will be competitive.  (There might be some small niche cases where we would need an internal combustion engine.)

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« Reply #2298 on: September 01, 2017, 08:28:46 AM »
And don't forget the other version of hybrid - an EV with an ICE generator for recharging during driving. Much cheaper and lighter than a full hybrid, if you need the extended range.