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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2400 on: September 26, 2017, 02:37:34 AM »
Transit operator Tide Buss has placed an order for 25 Volvo 7900 Electric buses for the city of Trondheim, Norway, Volvo’s largest-ever order of fully electric buses.
https://chargedevs.com/newswire/volvo-receives-largest-ever-order-of-electric-buses-for-trondheim-norway/

I really would like to see an economic analysis of quick charging on route buses vs. buses with large enough battery packs to run them all day long. 

I have a feeling that large battery buses will win out at least after battery prices drop a bit more.  And the frequen-charge buses may need a battery replacement due to more frequent discharge/charge cycling which will add to their cost.

 Most electric buses being made today have batteries that give a range over 100, even 200 miles (320 km). That's more than enough for a day's worth of intercity routes.
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etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2401 on: September 26, 2017, 06:36:16 AM »
Most electric buses being made today have batteries that give a range over 100, even 200 miles (320 km). That's more than enough for a day's worth of intercity routes.

Thats a good point, a local bus doesn't go very fast, maybe 15 miles per hours on average. Even on a 24 hours timeframe, this would be like 360 miles. Problem might come from heating and cooling because doors open every half mile, and when the bus is full at peak time, humans create a lot of heat, I have in mind around 100 W per person, but I'm not sure.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2402 on: September 26, 2017, 01:12:31 PM »
There's no data here to suggest that the autonomous Bolt EV causes more accidents per mile than other self-driving cars. But I would argue that human drivers react to a weird looking, obviously-autonomous vehicle with more distraction and... impatience? loathing? than they would to a normal-looking car that happens to be in autonomous mode.  Stupid humans. ::)  But, another benefit to having "hidden" sensors like Tesla has.

People just can’t stop crashing into GM’s ‘self-driving’ prototype cars
https://electrek.co/2017/09/26/people-cant-stop-crashing-into-gm-self-driving-prototype-cars/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2403 on: September 26, 2017, 07:58:42 PM »
“I’ve gotten messages from the governor asking, ‘Why haven’t we done something already?’” Nichols said, referring to China’s planned phase-out of fossil-fuel vehicle sales. “The governor has certainly indicated an interest in why China can do this and not California.”

California is now also considering a ban on gas and diesel-powered cars
https://electrek.co/2017/09/26/california-ban-gas-diesel-powered-cars/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2404 on: September 26, 2017, 09:25:39 PM »
Welcome, sisters! 
Joining the world of independent transportation, just when driving is becoming obsolete....

Saudi King issues decree allowing women to drive
Saudi King Salman on Tuesday ordered that women be allowed to drive cars, state media said, ending the conservative Islamic kingdom's status as the only country where that is forbidden.

The royal decree ordered the formation of a ministerial body to give advice within 30 days and then implement the order by June 2018, according to state news agency SPA.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/26/saudi-king-issues-decree-allowing-women-to-drive-report.html
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2405 on: September 27, 2017, 10:10:35 PM »
First look at Shell’s new electric car charging stations being deployed at its gas stations
Earlier this year, oil giant Shell announced that they would start deploying electric car charging stations in Britain and the Netherlands.
...
Interestingly, they branded the station ‘Shell’ and they made it look a lot like gas pumps.

It features 3 ports for maximum compatibility: a CHAdeMO DC fast-charging port, a CCS DC fast-charging port, and a regular Mennekes (Type 2) port.

They are charging £0.25p/ kWh ($0.34 USD), which isn’t too big of a premium on local electricity rate, which ranges from £0.09p to 0.16p/ kWh in the UK.

But it’s still higher than what some drivers will want to pay. In comparison, Tesla’s Supercharger rate for the UK is currently listed at £0.20p per kWh.

Shell and Allego are talking about increasing the rate to £0.49p next year. If they do, it would render the station completely useless. Hopefully, they reconsider that. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-charging-gas-stations/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2406 on: September 28, 2017, 01:10:45 AM »
Welcome, sisters! 
Joining the world of independent transportation, just when driving is becoming obsolete....

Saudi King issues decree allowing women to drive
Saudi King Salman on Tuesday ordered that women be allowed to drive cars, state media said, ending the conservative Islamic kingdom's status as the only country where that is forbidden.

The royal decree ordered the formation of a ministerial body to give advice within 30 days and then implement the order by June 2018, according to state news agency SPA.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/26/saudi-king-issues-decree-allowing-women-to-drive-report.html

That's a great step forward.  But will women be allowed to drive by themselves or will they be required to have a male chaperone?


Paddy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2407 on: September 28, 2017, 04:41:32 AM »
Looks like unchaperoned driving is the plan:

Prince Khaled, the ambassador, said women would not need permission from their guardians to get a license or have a guardian in the car and would be allowed to drive anywhere in the kingdom, including the Islamic holy cities of Mecca and Medina.

This may well entail something of a road-building plan in Saudi, as apparently gridlock is the usual state of affairs with the current number of cars on the road. So this is good news for business if you're working in road construction, or in car retail, or car insurance or if you're a driving instructor, or in a variety of other associated trades and industries, as well as being good for civil rights. Just a pity about the environment.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 07:25:19 AM by Paddy »

etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2408 on: September 28, 2017, 07:07:59 AM »
First look at Shell’s new electric car charging stations being deployed at its gas stations
Earlier this year, oil giant Shell announced that they would start deploying electric car charging stations in Britain and the Netherlands.
...
Interestingly, they branded the station ‘Shell’ and they made it look a lot like gas pumps.

It features 3 ports for maximum compatibility: a CHAdeMO DC fast-charging port, a CCS DC fast-charging port, and a regular Mennekes (Type 2) port.

They are charging £0.25p/ kWh ($0.34 USD), which isn’t too big of a premium on local electricity rate, which ranges from £0.09p to 0.16p/ kWh in the UK.

But it’s still higher than what some drivers will want to pay. In comparison, Tesla’s Supercharger rate for the UK is currently listed at £0.20p per kWh.

Shell and Allego are talking about increasing the rate to £0.49p next year. If they do, it would render the station completely useless. Hopefully, they reconsider that. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/shell-new-electric-car-charging-gas-stations/

I wonder if this would work. I would have tried a deal for example with a fast food restaurant. But in the article, they say that they want to keep the shop in business when gasoline business ends.

numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2409 on: September 28, 2017, 03:21:54 PM »
Highway gas stations often have a restaurant inside. It's a perfect fit. The ones that only have a convenience store it's a harder fit for.

The business model of the station owner is to sell convenience store items and restaurant food, or to do car repairs. The gas pump is barely break-even for the station owner: the distribution network has the power to claim all the profit for itself. Convenience stores and roadside restaurants make just as much sense in an EV world as before. Exactly where they need to exist changes so there'll be a shakeup, but the business model survives. Car repair: good luck (there'll be far reduced demand for that; no more head gaskets and timing belts to fix).

Shell doesn't need to exist anymore. It provided a distribution network that was very expensive to build. But in an EV world, anyone can put up a few charging stations and connect to the power grid (the power grid still needs to exist).

oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2410 on: September 28, 2017, 07:04:05 PM »
In an EV world, the time spent at the "gas" station increases, which could increase profits for the convenience store/restaurant.
The fuel distribution network should thankfully die.

etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2411 on: September 28, 2017, 07:55:53 PM »
The main difference will be that you won't "fill the tank" near your home. You would need such a loading device mainly on holidays/business trip.

The issue that is not clear yet is how to load your EV if you live in an appartment building without garage or private parking lot, or if the part owners of the appartment buiding don't want to invest in EV loading devices. But if you are is such a context, would you really line up in front of an "electrical station" ?
I could imagine 2 solutions :
1) a parking lot with expensive places with EV loader (you would pay the parking time and the loaded kWh) and normal priced places without loader.
2)  a business where you bring your car and take it back later with a fully loaded battery. This could be done for example on an empty supermarket parking lot at night. During the day when people go shopping, it would be self-service paid by credit card, and at night somebody would change regularely the cars in front of the loaders (or would move the loaders in front of another car).

With self driving cars, none of this would be an issue because cars could line up and wait to be loaded.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2412 on: September 28, 2017, 07:56:42 PM »
In an EV world, the time spent at the "gas" station increases, which could increase profits for the convenience store/restaurant.
The fuel distribution network should thankfully die.

Self-driving EVs seems to be likely.  At that point chargers are likely to be installed on 'cheaper' real estate.

Your car will drop you off at a restaurant, store, whatever of your choice.  Take itself for a charge.  Pick you up when you are ready.

On a long trip your car might notify you that it needs a recharge in the next hour/half-hour and give you a choice of ways to spend your time.  Meal.  Shopping.  Walking in park/nice area.  Tourist attraction.  Nap.

Tap one.  Get the appropriate menu.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2413 on: September 28, 2017, 08:00:25 PM »
With self driving cars, none of this would be an issue because cars could line up and wait to be loaded

Exactly.  With self-driving cars you car can let you off at work or home and take itself to the least expensive parking/charging option within a reasonable distance.

If you can't charge where you live your car can go elsewhere and pick you up when you're ready to leave.  There may well be free/cheap day/night parking in lots where you allow your car to be used as a dispatchable load.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2414 on: September 28, 2017, 09:32:16 PM »
Audi's union demands: build EVs in every Audi plant, world-wide!

“Audi’s labor union’s reasoning for demanding EVs be built in the main plant is that Audi needs to bring EVs into main focus, rather than as a side project, given that the future of the automotive industry is heading in that direction and it would be a disservice to Audi’s workers not to take the shift to new automotive technologies seriously.”

Audi will build electric cars in all factories worldwide, expanding from previous plans
https://electrek.co/2017/09/27/audi-build-electric-car-all-factories/
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2415 on: September 30, 2017, 02:12:05 AM »
The main difference will be that you won't "fill the tank" near your home. You would need such a loading device mainly on holidays/business trip.

The issue that is not clear yet is how to load your EV if you live in an appartment building without garage or private parking lot

Then you're parking on the street. So plug it into the meter on the street. My uncle already does this when visiting my parents.

It requires the city to build plugs into the parking meters. Have your city put out a CFP and you'll get several companies bidding for the project, it's nothing complicated.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2416 on: September 30, 2017, 03:58:44 AM »
Look for utilities to start encouraging charging outlets in workplace and school parking lots.  Having a lot of EVs plugged in during the day creates a nice dispatchable load that can be used to soak up extra solar generation.

And we might not need that many curbside outlets.  Lots of city people won't drive many miles per day.  With a 200+ mile range EV some may not need to charge more than once per week.  Or even every other week.  (Ten mile per day 'habit'  = 140 miles over two weeks.)

We might see people making appointments to charge curbside.  If people who need to charge only one time per week were to park elsewhere when not charging a single curbside outlet could serve seven EVs.  (Wrong car parked at the outlet and the outlet calls a tow truck.)

Of course once we are driving, er, once cars are driving themselves they can go somewhere, get charged, park for the night, and pick you up in the morning.

etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2417 on: September 30, 2017, 08:59:48 AM »
The problem right now overhere is that each utility company has its own card for the EV loading device, so if you are somewhere on holiday, you first have to find the place to buy the loading card, and if it is not a prepaid system, it's even more complicated. Some kind of credit card solution would be fine, just that credit card companies don't allow you to charge any cost on a credit card transaction.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2418 on: October 01, 2017, 10:14:30 PM »
 :) ...... >:(

Trump administration reverses under legal pressure, requires measuring greenhouse gases from cars and trucks
Following a lawsuit by California and seven other states, the Trump administration has reversed course and instituted new regulations requiring that greenhouse gases from cars and trucks be measured and compared over time.

The regulation was published two days before the Obama administration left office and was repeatedly delayed by President Trump’s Transportation Department. The transportation sector is one of the top sources of emissions causing global warming.

“The Trump Administration backed down and will now implement the measure as is legally required,” California Attorney General Xavier Becerra (D) said in a statement this week. “Climate change is real. If President Trump is not prepared to admit it or to do his job of protecting our families by enforcing our environmental rules, then I’m prepared as Attorney General to call his bluff.”

California and the other states — Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Washington, Oregon and Vermont — alleged in the suit, filed last week, that the administration had intentionally and unlawfully failed to give the public the required opportunity to comment on the indefinite delay. Environmental groups had sued over the issue, as well.

U.S. transportation officials declined to address the allegations. The Federal Highway Administration released a statement saying, “We have no objections to states choosing to collect greenhouse gas data, or setting targets for greenhouse gas reduction.” ...

BUT:
... the Federal Highway Administration “has initiated additional rulemaking procedures proposing to repeal the [greenhouse gas] measure.” It said a formal notice outlining that effort would be published this year, with a goal of putting it into place by spring of 2018 — before the first compliance deadline.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/trump-administration-under-legal-pressure-reverses-itself-on-measuring-greenhouse-gases-from-cars-and-trucks/2017/09/28/86ae48c4-a476-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html
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Paddy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2419 on: October 02, 2017, 07:17:06 AM »
If you're in the USA... is it me, or would now be a good time to either go car-free or transition to electric, given the current post-hurricanes strength of the secondhand market?

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2420 on: October 02, 2017, 02:09:48 PM »
If you're in the USA... is it me, or would now be a good time to either go car-free or transition to electric, given the current post-hurricanes strength of the secondhand market?

Well, I'd say any time is a good time to go car-free or transition to electric. But that's just me.  ;D
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2421 on: October 02, 2017, 07:23:53 PM »
Twenty new electric vehicles are on the way, GM says
There will be a mix of long-range battery EVs and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
DETROIT—General Motors is the latest car company to unveil plans for an emissions-free future. On Monday morning, the US' largest automaker announced that the next 18 months will see two new electric vehicles join the Bolt EV in showrooms, and 18 more are due by 2023. "GM believes in an all-electric future and a world free of automotive emissions," said Mark Reuss, GM's executive VP for product development, purchasing, and supply chain. "When the Bolt EV was announced at CES it was described as a platform, and this is the next step." ...
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/general-motors-plans-for-an-all-electric-future-20-new-evs-coming-by-2023/
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ghoti

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2422 on: October 02, 2017, 09:14:44 PM »
On Monday morning, the US' largest automaker announced that the next 18 months will see two new electric vehicles join the Bolt EV in showrooms
Sounds unlikely. If a car is going to be in showrooms in 18 months it has to already be on the road as mule/prototype/pre-production verson now. Nobody has seen any. Probably because you can't see vaporware cars.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2423 on: October 03, 2017, 03:00:42 AM »
On Monday morning, the US' largest automaker announced that the next 18 months will see two new electric vehicles join the Bolt EV in showrooms
Sounds unlikely. If a car is going to be in showrooms in 18 months it has to already be on the road as mule/prototype/pre-production verson now. Nobody has seen any. Probably because you can't see vaporware cars.

"They" said the same thing about the Tesla Model 3. ;) New, more automated manufacturing techniques, and new development methods mean traditional automotive schedules no longer apply.  That said, I agree these new EVs must have been in the pipeline for years now, and I will believe it when I see them.  Also, "we don't know how those EVs will split across GM's various brands or whether some will only be for specific regions."  So these early EVs, in particular, are likely aimed at markets where GM needs an EV to compete -- like CARB states, or China -- and may not be made in high volumes... while they gradually adjust their business, and their dealerships, toward electrification. 
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2424 on: October 03, 2017, 03:04:11 AM »
Tipping point?  First GM, and now Ford, are announcing a major shift to electrification.

How Ford Will Join the Electric-Car Revolution
Ford's new CEO is setting the stage for a more aggressive push into fully-electric vehicles.
Ford Motor Company (NYSE:F) is gearing up for a bigger push into electric vehicles. It's setting up a new electric-vehicle team led by a veteran Ford executive, it said on Monday, and it will increase the number of fully electric vehicles it has in development. 

The news comes a day before Ford's new CEO, Jim Hackett, is expected to unveil his revamped strategy for the company in a presentation to Wall Street analysts. It's a clear hint as to where Hackett is likely to take Ford -- and another sign that the industrywide push toward electric vehicles might finally have hit a tipping point. ...
https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/10/02/ford-more-electric-cars-are-coming.aspx
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ghoti

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2425 on: October 03, 2017, 03:42:47 AM »
The Model 3 was shown and driven more than 18 months before production began. People were being given demo drives in the Bolt more than 18 months before production. What I am saying is GM hasn't shown, let alone demoed, any of these so-called new EVs.

They have a deadline in China though - 10% EVs in 2019 there or it gets very expensive for them. They will produce new EVs in China before anything shows up in North America or Europe.

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #2426 on: October 03, 2017, 04:45:00 AM »
One of the VW execs stated that VW will be selling at least half of all EVs sold in Europe ten years from now. 

I don't take that as meaning VW will have any serious EVs on the market in the next couple of years, but that VW understands that there's a huge change starting to happen and VW better get moving.

I suspect Tesla has scared the poop out of traditional car companies.  They can see that if demand is there and unmet that Tesla can just build more Gigafactories and assembly lines very quickly and meet the need.

By the time that any companies (other than Renault/Nissan) can get significant numbers of long range EVs to market Tesla could easily have sold 2 million EVs and take that portion of the market as their own. 

sidd

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« Reply #2427 on: October 03, 2017, 05:13:41 AM »
The GM and Ford announcements are driven by china. 10% EV in 2019 and phaseout of ICE by 2030 is a powerful incentive.

sidd

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2428 on: October 03, 2017, 06:05:52 AM »
The latest news from the European launch of the 2018 Nissan LEAF, along with lots of other stuff:

"Nissan’s Future Promises “Free” EV Charging"

Nissan also announced a UK collaboration with OVO allowing customers to purchase an xStorage home energy unit at a discounted price enabling them to ‘sell’ back energy to the grid. This helps contribute to grid stability in a world where demand for energy is increasing due to a growing, urbanising population. It can result in an additional expected income for users averaging £350 / €400 per year.

Not to mention:

The new 40kWh battery for the 100% electric e-NV200 offers a 60% extended range of up to 280km NEDC. And, with no increase in size of the battery itself, customers will face no compromise in either load space or payload. Crucially, it can help make 100% electric last miles delivery achievable for businesses and professional drivers everywhere, with customers now able to drive more than 100 km further on a single charge.

Folks here might also be interested in the shiny new open source application for our trusty Raspberry Pi:

"National Grid Launches Carbon Intensity Data Feed"

[UK] Carbon Intensity dropped to an all time record low of 73 gCO₂/kWh overnight.
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2429 on: October 03, 2017, 11:20:37 AM »
Thanks for the info, Jim.

I want to try and buy an EV next year (don't know how yet), but I really want to make it part of my home as a storage unit (so I don't have to buy that separately). Nissan looks most promising in this respect, but the Leaf is probably too small, and the e-NV200 is incredibly expensive.

Sometimes I think about converting our Opel Combo CNG to EV, as that would be the most environmentally friendly option (and I don't like all the software in EVs, which I suspect, will turn out to be planned/perceived obsolescence), but again, a very expensive experiment that could go terribly wrong.

PS I've paved the carport in the past few months, 20 metres from our house, and put in a pipe between the two, containing a water pipe, regular electricity cable, AND a 5x10mm2 cable for a future EV. So, everything's prepared.  ;)
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Jim Hunt

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2430 on: October 03, 2017, 02:16:42 PM »
My pleasure Neven,

If I were you I'd wait a while before even attempting to invest in an EV and associated vehicle-to-grid equipment. There's an awful lot of ill informed hype abroad at the moment. Expect matters in Europe to clarify somewhat over the next 6 months or so.

Just in case you're in London at the time, I shall be attending this event on October 13th:

https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/our-services/events/2017/L13smartgrid/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2431 on: October 03, 2017, 03:43:49 PM »
The GM and Ford announcements are driven by china. 10% EV in 2019 and phaseout of ICE by 2030 is a powerful incentive.

sidd

Between Tesla showing "EVs can be made," and Tesla Model 3 reservations saying, "People want EVs" and China saying, "You will make EVs, or else" -- even the big U.S. automakers now accept they must electrifiy or die.  (Although electrifying and dying, from billion$ of abandoned ICE assets, is also possible.)

Here's what Ford said was in the pipeline last January.  It will be interesting to see if today's announcement skews further away from hybrids and more towards pure electric vehicles.
https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/03/ford-adding-electrified-f-150-mustang-transit-by-2020.html
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2432 on: October 03, 2017, 03:49:40 PM »
"Is this our first glimpse of the Tesla semi truck?"

And is that an "aerodynamic shroud" for the top of the truck, on the ground benind it?

And are those four red pillars behind the shroud a new kind of Tesla supercharger? ? ? ?

So many questions.  So many days until the October 26 reveal!   ;D

https://electrek.co/2017/10/03/is-this-our-first-glimpse-of-the-tesla-semi-truck/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2433 on: October 03, 2017, 04:32:17 PM »
Tesla's goal is to grow their "most extensive DC fast-charging network in the world" to 10,000 chargers by the end of this year.  New stations are appearing with 40, even 50 stalls.

Tesla Supercharger network reaches 1,000 stations worldwide and ~7,000 chargers
https://electrek.co/2017/10/03/tesla-supercharger-network-1000-stations/amp/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2434 on: October 03, 2017, 05:11:20 PM »
If you're in the USA... is it me, or would now be a good time to either go car-free or transition to electric, given the current post-hurricanes strength of the secondhand market?

Lots of people are snatching up used EVs, faster than ICE cars, now that they've reached a more comfortable price point.  U.S. study:

Most of the fastest selling used cars in the US are now electric
https://qz.com/1090343/most-of-the-fastest-selling-used-vehicles-in-the-us-are-now-ev/

6 of the 10 fastest-selling used cars in the US are electric plug-ins
https://electrek.co/2017/09/28/6-of-the-10-fastest-selling-used-cars-in-the-us-are-electric-plug-ins/
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etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2435 on: October 03, 2017, 06:16:33 PM »

Sometimes I think about converting our Opel Combo CNG to EV, as that would be the most environmentally friendly option (and I don't like all the software in EVs, which I suspect, will turn out to be planned/perceived obsolescence), but again, a very expensive experiment that could go terribly wrong.


Did you already do more than thinking about it ? I wonder what the costs might be but don't have time to inform myself.

Right now, I wouldn't take electricity out of the car into the house, batteries are not done for that, but as a variable load on the PV system, I think it's a good idea.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2436 on: October 03, 2017, 07:00:05 PM »
Tesla's goal is to grow their "most extensive DC fast-charging network in the world" to 10,000 chargers by the end of this year.  New stations are appearing with 40, even 50 stalls.

Tesla Supercharger network reaches 1,000 stations worldwide and ~7,000 chargers
https://electrek.co/2017/10/03/tesla-supercharger-network-1000-stations/amp/

Tesla uses local contractors to do the work.  Tesla must have a good crew that can arrange the location and another crew that can recruit and supervise the installation.

The job must be getting easier as they install more chargers in a locale.  The planning and building departments will have been through the process before and won't have to go though Supercharger kindergarten.  And if the construction company they used before did a good job then Tesla has an experienced company to do the work.

Neven

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2437 on: October 03, 2017, 09:14:58 PM »
Did you already do more than thinking about it ? I wonder what the costs might be but don't have time to inform myself.

I found a place or two (in Germany) where they do conversions, but using LiFePo batteries, not even the stuff car manufacturers use. And even then, it's bulky and terribly expensive. I don't think it would cost less than 25K in Euros. And that almost buys you a new Leaf or Model 3.

Right now, I wouldn't take electricity out of the car into the house, batteries are not done for that, but as a variable load on the PV system, I think it's a good idea.

I was surprised to see there still isn't a solution for this, having read about it years ago (probably on Jim's V2G blog). I don't see us using more than 5 kWh per day that isn't supplied by our PV array (it would have to be really, really cloudy), so I would guess that a 40 kWh battery shouldn't have a problem with that.

But then again, I know very little about it all. I guess I'll wait some more. But I feel guilty when I drive. Now that our carport is almost done, I think we'll buy some good, new bikes in spring.
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2438 on: October 03, 2017, 09:55:00 PM »
I was surprised to see there still isn't a solution for this, having read about it years ago (probably on Jim's V2G blog).

Vehicle-to-home has been available for a number of years in Japan, but getting bi-directional charging stations to European standards is a decidedly non trivial problem, especially at a sensible price.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2439 on: October 03, 2017, 10:21:29 PM »
Ford's announcement today:

Ford CEO outlines plan to aggressively cut costs, funneling savings to electric, self-driving cars
The Blue Oval is getting a makeover.

Ford CEO Jim Hackett and his leadership team are steering the automaker to drive greater profits on its most valuable products, trucks and SUVs, while turning away from less valuable areas like cars. At the same time, Ford plans to aggressively cut costs while investing more resources on electric and autonomous-drive vehicles.

"When you're a long-lived company that has had success over multiple decades, the decision to change is not easy — culturally or operationally," Hackett said. "Ultimately, though, we must accept the virtues that brought us success over the past century are really no guarantee of future success."

Hackett devised his plan for transforming Ford after using most of his first 100 days at the helm to evaluate what works and what doesn't. The result is a substantial push to shift gears at a company that has a history of being slow to change.

More trucks and SUVs, fewer Cars

Ford plans to reallocate about $7 billion to increased development and production of trucks and SUVs, while demphasizing less profitable cars and sedans.

Ford is not getting out of the car business all-together, but it will no longer be an automaker that pushes cars as heavily as it has in the past.

Instead, Ford will emphasize trucks and SUVs, an area of strength and big profits, especially when compared its competitors. This year, 76 percent of Ford's sales in the U.S. are trucks and SUVs.

Charging up EVs

Like other automakers, Ford is going electric.

Over the next five years, it will redeploy money into its program for developing and building electric vehicles while cutting capital expenditures for internal combustion engines by one third.

Ford sees the writing on the wall, especially in many foreign markets where governments are de-emphasizing or moving to ban gasoline-powered vehicles. This move is critical since Ford has lagged competitors when it comes to developing EVs. ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/03/ford-to-cut-costs-funneling-savings-to-electric-self-driving-cars.html
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etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2440 on: October 03, 2017, 11:13:10 PM »
I was surprised to see there still isn't a solution for this, having read about it years ago (probably on Jim's V2G blog). I don't see us using more than 5 kWh per day that isn't supplied by our PV array (it would have to be really, really cloudy), so I would guess that a 40 kWh battery shouldn't have a problem with that.

This is a little bit out of topic, but from my point of view, thinking CO2 reduction, I feel that it doesn't make sense to use PV power to load a car.

In the renewable energy trend, there are many links to electricity load curves, and the summer daily PV production curve is similiar to the global electricity consumption curve, so if you use the electricity produced before noon to load your car, maybe somebody else starts a diesel generator in order to support the peak load.

The Californian spring and fall load curve is often discussed, they have what is called a duck curve  because of the PV production without much air conditionning use, but in the summertime, from what I heard, it seems that it isn't an issue.

So from a CO2 reduction point of view, I would recommend a slow charging of the car batteries at night between 00:00 and 5:00.

etienne

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2441 on: October 03, 2017, 11:22:59 PM »
If you don't agree with my point of view, I'd be very happy if you would explain me what's wrong in my way of thinking because many people are surprised by my point of view, find it interesting but prefer to use their power in order to be sure that they don't use "greened" electricity.

wili

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2442 on: October 04, 2017, 05:58:55 AM »
Generally, we need to move away from car culture as quickly as possible, for all sorts of reasons, in an many areas as possible. In the mean time, though, it is important to have low and no emission alternatives to traditional ICE vehicles.

Here's the latest reflections from the scribbler on the latest from Tesla:

Tesla’s Electric Sales Explode Despite Slow Model 3 Production Ramp

During the third quarter of 2017, Tesla sold 26,150 all-electric vehicles. A new quarterly sales record for the company...

https://robertscribbler.com/2017/10/03/teslas-electric-sales-explode-despite-slow-model-3-production-ramp/

« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 06:36:16 AM by wili »
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2443 on: October 04, 2017, 08:02:18 AM »
If you don't agree with my point of view, I'd be very happy if you would explain me what's wrong in my way of thinking because many people are surprised by my point of view, find it interesting but prefer to use their power in order to be sure that they don't use "greened" electricity.

In general I've got no problem with your point of view.

Charging EVs from your own panels is going to be hard for most people since they are often away during the day. 

Probably the best solution is to allow utilities to exercise some control over when you charge.  Then your EV, and millions others, becomes a massive, very flexible dispatchable load. 

Assume you have a 200 mile range EV. 

Determine your absolute minimum "emergency" charge.  Say 30 miles to get you to the hospital, your parents' house, wherever you think you might need to get without taking time at a rapid charger.

Program in enough range to do your daily driving.  Perhaps you live 10 miles from work so 20 for the RT and another 10 for running errands. 

When you plug in the utility will know that you need a 30 mile workday charge, that it's Wednesday so 30 for the next three days. You typically drive 50 miles on Saturday and only 5 on Sundays.

The utility also has a pretty good idea what their resources and other loads will be over the next few days.  If wind is going to be tight Wednesday and Thursday nights but pick up by the weekend they might charge you only 30 miles (plus any of your emergency 30 you might have used). 

On Friday night they might have a lot of extra supply and fully charge your batteries.  Then skip charging  a couple of nights the next week when supplies were stretched.

Part of the EV fleet might plug in during the day.  Those people who don't have a place to charge where they live might be best served by an outlet in their school or workplace parking lot.

Basically charge EVs late at night with wind during low demand hours.  And charge EVs in the middle of the day with solar.  Don't charge during the morning peak which happens before solar kicks in and during the evening peak when solar is done for the day and the night wind hasn't picked up.

Basically, the more dispatchable load we have the more wind and solar we can add to the grid without having to add storage or curtailing.  The dispatchable loads can eat up any supply over the regular load and drop out when supply is thin.

crandles

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2444 on: October 04, 2017, 04:11:51 PM »
If you don't agree with my point of view, I'd be very happy if you would explain me what's wrong in my way of thinking because many people are surprised by my point of view, find it interesting but prefer to use their power in order to be sure that they don't use "greened" electricity.

I have no problem with your POV.

Different countries may have different rules creating different incentives. E.g. in UK, I get paid for generating Electricity by solar PV and a small fee for selling surplus back to grid but this is estimated as half of generation regardless of how much I use and how much sent back so in reality it is only for generating electricity. Thus, there is financial incentive to use what I generate rather than send it back. While generation is excellent investment, demand management to try to use what I generate seems pretty small beer and I do very little to change demand times.

If/when I get electric vehicle, I would want it charging only with surplus power i.e. normally very slowly during day, faster when sunny (and perhaps if I still haven't got any house battery system discharging at night to power house while keeping a minimum charge for 30 miles unless long trip planned).

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2445 on: October 05, 2017, 02:30:58 AM »
The new headline for Ford's recent announcement is:

Ford to shift one-third of internal combustion engine investments to electric cars
The CEO said:

“Ford is reducing internal combustion engine capital expenditures by one-third and redeploying that capital into electrification – on top of the previously announced $4.5 billion investment.”

The company didn’t elaborate on the expected result from the new investment in EVs but Reuters got a prescient quote from Ford’s president of global operations, Joe Hinrichs:

“Electric vehicles will mean auto factories can have a final assembly area that is half the size, requires half the capital investment and 30 percent fewer labor hours per car.”
...
https://electrek.co/2017/10/04/ford-shift-electric-car-one-third-of-internal-combustion-engine-investment/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2446 on: October 05, 2017, 01:59:09 PM »
Only a stunt, but showcases Nissan's V2G and home battery system, in addition to the electric LEAF and van. :)  Video at the link.

Nissan breaks ‘electric van towing record’ by moving a house with new e-NV200 all-electric van
This week, Nissan launched the new e-NV200 all-electric van using the same new 40 kWh battery pack introduced in the next generation Leaf.

To showcase the new vehicle, Nissan had it attempt to break the “electric van towing record” by moving a house.

Of course, it’s not like there are many electric vans out there to break the record and to be fair, it was only a stunt since the e-NV200’s actual towing capacity is 430 kg (950 lbs).

The had to fit the van with a special new towbar to support the trailer carrying the house.

Nonetheless, it was an interesting showcase of the new electric van and the new EV ecosystem with a vehicle-to-grid and home battery system that Nissan unveiled with it. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/10/05/nissan-breaks-electric-towing-record-e-nv200-all-electric-van/
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2447 on: October 05, 2017, 02:36:54 PM »
If you don't agree with my point of view, I'd be very happy if you would explain me what's wrong in my way of thinking because many people are surprised by my point of view, find it interesting but prefer to use their power in order to be sure that they don't use "greened" electricity.

If you have an EV, and you’re wondering when to charge it, the answer is to charge it whenever there’s surplus renewables on the grid. That will depend on local circumstances.

If you have an ICE, and you’re wondering when to charge an EV you’d get to replace it, the answer is whenever you want — if someone fires up a diesel generator to make up for your car, it’s still better than driving around with a gasoline-powered car.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2448 on: October 05, 2017, 04:07:45 PM »
New data lends credence to the $7,500 EV tax incentive being available for eligible Tesla buyers in the U.S. through the third quarter of 2018.

Tesla buyers to have access to federal tax credit well into 2018 as US deliveries reach over 140,000 units
https://electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/amp/
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2449 on: October 05, 2017, 08:09:48 PM »
New data lends credence to the $7,500 EV tax incentive being available for eligible Tesla buyers in the U.S. through the third quarter of 2018.

Tesla buyers to have access to federal tax credit well into 2018 as US deliveries reach over 140,000 units
https://electrek.co/2017/10/05/tesla-model3-buyers-access-federal-tax-credits-2018/amp/

Tesla is a very cool story and the cars, from a design standpoint, are certainly attractive to a large segment of Americans. The cost is a concern and certainly would eliminate many car buyers.

With current auto sales in the U.S. running at about 17 million cars per year, it calls into question whether electric vehicles can replace internal combustion vehicles anytime soon.

<iframe src='https://d3fy651gv2fhd3.cloudfront.net/embed/?s=unitedstatotvehsal&v=201710031945v&d1=20070101&d2=20171231&h=300&w=600' height='300' width='600'  frameborder='0' scrolling='no'></iframe><br />source: <a href='https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/total-vehicle-sales'>tradingeconomics.com</a>