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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2550 on: November 09, 2017, 02:45:14 PM »
Another electric school bus!

Daimler unveils its first all-electric school bus, hits production in 2019 with over 100 miles of range
https://electrek.co/2017/11/09/daimlert-all-electric-school-bus/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2551 on: November 09, 2017, 03:25:22 PM »
So you think the truck driver was just trying to get a closer look?

 8)

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2552 on: November 09, 2017, 09:14:27 PM »
So you think the truck driver was just trying to get a closer look?

 8)

Nah, he was trying to take a quick photo, and dropped his phone... :P
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2553 on: November 09, 2017, 09:47:33 PM »
GM is not making enough Bolts/Opel Ampera-E to meet demand in Europe, so Opel announces its own electric cars.  :)

Opel announces electrification of its car line after failing to capitalize on Chevy Bolt EV demand
https://electrek.co/2017/11/09/opel-electrification-car-line-chevy-bolt-ev-demand/
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2554 on: November 09, 2017, 10:01:07 PM »
GM has allowed European dealers to jack up the prices on the Bolt/Ampera by $5k.  Toyota did the same in the early days of the Prius when demand outstripped supply.

Gouging.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2555 on: November 10, 2017, 03:37:38 AM »
U.S.:  EV tax credit as congressional bargaining chip in new tax bill?

Electric vehicle tax credit preserved in Senate’s revised tax bill, says senator
https://electrek.co/2017/11/09/electric-vehicle-tax-credit-preserved-in-senates-revised-tax-bill-says-senator/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2556 on: November 12, 2017, 09:42:20 PM »
More on the Las Vegas non-crash.  The truck driver was indeed distracted. ;) But there was little the autonomous bus could have done to avoid the incident, other than beeping its horn, or backing up. 

That self-driving bus ‘crash’ in Las Vegas was even less of a crash than we thought
http://gearsofbiz.com/that-self-driving-bus-crash-in-las-vegas-was-even-less-of-a-crash-than-we-thought/190584
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2557 on: November 13, 2017, 04:45:37 PM »
The good news: it’s CCS and fast-charging, with 150 kW upgradeable to 350 kW. 
The bad news: only 2 to 6 chargers per station.

A new ‘electric highway’ is going to connect Europe from Norway to Italy
https://electrek.co/2017/11/13/electric-highway-connect-europe-from-norway-to-italy/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2558 on: November 13, 2017, 04:55:26 PM »
Elon Musk tweeted: 
"Tesla Semi Truck unveil to be webcast live on Thursday at 8pm! This will blow your mind clear out of your skull and into an alternate dimension. Just need to find my portal gun ...”
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/929823757635481600

To clarify... Tesla Semi truck livestream starts at 8pm PST/11pm EST (Nov 16), 4am UTC (Nov 17).
[Or, 8:05 to 8:10pm EMT — Elon Musk Time ;) ]
Likely at Tesla.com
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2559 on: November 13, 2017, 05:28:38 PM »
EV production in China

Give and Take for Carmakers, Xi Style
Quote
...What can work, however, is recognizing when China could use a foreign partner to help it achieve something Beijing wants, and striking at the right time.

Take the announcement Friday on scrapping foreign ownership limits for banks and asset management firms. As Gadfly's Shuli Ren notes, China is struggling to get financial institutions to scoop up the mountain of bad debt on corporate balance sheets. Foreign companies could help clear some of it out.

A similar idea can be applied to carmakers. China's foreign ministry has pledged to gradually reduce auto tariffs and allow foreign carmakers to set up wholly owned electric-car operations in the nation's free-trade zones on a trial basis by June. ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2017-11-12/give-and-take-for-carmakers-xi-style

More background:
China Gives Automakers More Time in World's Biggest EV Plan
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-28/china-to-start-new-energy-vehicle-production-quota-from-2019
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2560 on: November 13, 2017, 06:36:29 PM »
Faraday Future's CFO and CTO left the company over the last month.

The end could be near for Faraday Future’s ambitious electric car plans
https://electrek.co/2017/11/13/ff-end-could-near-faraday-future-electric-car-plans/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2561 on: November 13, 2017, 06:45:51 PM »
Tesla Model 3 Depositors Staying Put as Wait in Line Lengthens
Quote
... Even as the company led by Elon Musk struggles with manufacturing bottlenecks and pushes back production targets by at least a quarter, many reservation holders aren’t budging. Bloomberg News contacted 20 consumers who paid deposits for the Model 3 and none had canceled their orders. Regardless of the concerns raised by slower output and an uncertain future for U.S. electric-car tax credits, Nomura analyst Romit Shah predicts the affinity for Tesla Inc. products will prevail.
...
“It seems to me that people would be willing to wait since they were never given a firm date when they would take delivery in the first place,” Edmunds analyst Jessica Caldwell said in an email. “The long wait seems to be building anticipation.”
...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2017-11-13/tesla-model-3-depositors-staying-put-as-wait-in-line-lengthens
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2562 on: November 14, 2017, 04:49:15 PM »
London is installing electric car charging stations inside lamp posts for street charging
https://electrek.co/2017/11/14/london-electric-car-charging-stations-lamp-posts-street/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2563 on: November 14, 2017, 05:33:29 PM »
Car guy Alex Roy examines Bob Lutz's claim that human-driven cars will be banned within 20 years.

Is the Entire Car Industry Really Doomed?
Bob Lutz drops a nuclear bomb on everything we know and love. But is he right?
Quote
... If you believe Lutz, everything we know, love, or hate is utterly doomed by the arrival of self-driving cars.

Is Lutz right?

I’ve been saying the same thing as Lutz since 2015, with one crucial difference. I think it’s all over in 50-70 years. Lutz? Twenty. ...
http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/16001/is-the-entire-car-industry-really-doomed
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BenB

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2564 on: November 15, 2017, 10:16:58 AM »
While in the West cities are thinking of introducing tens or in some cases hundreds of electric buses,
 China has already added hundreds of thousands. Shenzhen alone has 14,000, and by the end of this year its whole bus fleet will be electric:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/12/100-electric-bus-fleet-shenzhen-pop-11-9-million-end-2017/

Note that Shenzhen has a population of 11+ million. It is also home to electric bus (and car) manufacturer BYD.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2565 on: November 15, 2017, 06:24:04 PM »
While in the West cities are thinking of introducing tens or in some cases hundreds of electric buses,
 China has already added hundreds of thousands. Shenzhen alone has 14,000, and by the end of this year its whole bus fleet will be electric:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/12/100-electric-bus-fleet-shenzhen-pop-11-9-million-end-2017/

Note that Shenzhen has a population of 11+ million. It is also home to electric bus (and car) manufacturer BYD.

"hundreds of thousands" ? ? ?
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2566 on: November 15, 2017, 06:34:30 PM »
“There is less of a barrier to entry when it comes to having Chinese products in Canada compared to the U.S.”

BYD announces new electric truck assembly factory in Canada
Quote
They will build trucks like a 3.9-ton garbage truck with 100 miles of electric range that they unveiled last year – pictured [below] – and an all-electric yard truck.
https://electrek.co/2017/11/15/byd-new-electric-truck-assembly-factory-canada/


More: http://www.autonews.com/article/20171115/OEM01/171119859/buffett-byd-electric-bus-ontario-manufacturing
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 06:42:03 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2567 on: November 15, 2017, 07:47:01 PM »
Car guy Alex Roy examines Bob Lutz's claim that human-driven cars will be banned within 20 years.

Is the Entire Car Industry Really Doomed?
Bob Lutz drops a nuclear bomb on everything we know and love. But is he right?
Quote
... If you believe Lutz, everything we know, love, or hate is utterly doomed by the arrival of self-driving cars.

Is Lutz right?

I’ve been saying the same thing as Lutz since 2015, with one crucial difference. I think it’s all over in 50-70 years. Lutz? Twenty. ...
http://www.thedrive.com/opinion/16001/is-the-entire-car-industry-really-doomed

Lutz and Tony Seba are, IMO, right but their timelines are pretty aggressive.  Perhaps ICEV manufacturing will be over in 20 years but there will still be fueled cars on the road.  A small percentage of people will only give up their personal gasmobile if they can no longer find fuel.

Roy didn't think a lot of stuff through.  Hurricane evac?  Robotaxi companies (possibly 'commanded' by the government) send in large numbers of vehicles from surrounding areas.  Drive people to safe areas.  Go back for more people.  Surrounding cities, for example, might send parts of their robobus fleets for evac services.  Send their reserve buses and run some routes less often for a couple of days.

Who owns the vehicles?  That's a really surprising question.  The owners will be those companies who best figure out the solutions, as in any industry/service. 

"Make cool/fun cars uncrashable, and enthusiast brands will flourish rather than die."  Are we sure those vehicles would be allowed on public roads?  Traffic is more likely to operate like a school of fish with all moving at the same speed and changing course in coordinated ways.  Want to go fast enough to scare yourself?  Go to a closed track.

"At peak horse, the majority of humans in the world had never owned, leased, financed or rented a horse, let alone ridden one."

No, but if you wanted to go any distance at all on land a horse took you there.  If you needed to go city to city your options were to walk or buy a coach ticket. 

The idea that we'll speed down our highways at 120 to 150 MPH is interesting.  Once we've installed enough renewable generation the extra energy required shouldn't make the cost prohibitive.  At those speeds we reduce the number of cars on highways, people would get to destination and off the road faster.  At some point simply ban human driven cars from highways.

I think Roy misses the attraction of not having to deal with owning a vehicle.  Just get in a clean, comfortable vehicle outside your door and sit back while it takes you to your destination.  Get out at your destination and let the car deal with parking, recharging, and getting itself cleaned if needed.  Rich people have chauffeurs for a reason.


Tor Bejnar

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2568 on: November 15, 2017, 07:54:00 PM »
Sigmetnow,
Per Wikipedia, "As of 2016, 156,000 buses are being put into service per year in China."
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crandles

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2569 on: November 15, 2017, 09:09:18 PM »

Lutz and Tony Seba are, IMO, right but their timelines are pretty aggressive.  Perhaps ICEV manufacturing will be over in 20 years but there will still be fueled cars on the road.  A small percentage of people will only give up their personal gasmobile if they can no longer find fuel.

Roy didn't think a lot of stuff through.

It seemed all about self driving cars. I think for a sensible view you have to consider both ff vs electric and self driving as an add on to electric vehicles.

If electric is:

cheaper fuelling cost,
cheaper maintenance cost,
smoother ride,
better driving experience,
easier refuelling, just plug in at home most of time,
lower depreciation

arguably these are already here,
the two remaining factors

financing capital cost
adequacy of fuelling stations

will fall into place as battery prices fall and more recharging spots installed over the next few years.

Cost of self driving add on to electric vehicles won't be all that high. So just a small chance of saving adults making extra journeys and/or needing extra vehicle to do these journeys makes option worthwhile. Even if there is no chance of that, just lower depreciation on the vehicles that have it will make it a worthwhile option for most people.

Once it become possible and is overwhelmingly the responsible thing to do to ban new ICE vehicles from being licensed to use public roads, the public will demand it (much like banning smoking in public buildings).

Will there be laws to require self driving cars do self drive rather than being driven? That may take a little longer and depend on the death and injury rates and how the technology develops:

Do we expect a supervise mode that takes over from erratic and dangerous driving? Could software carry out much more thorough assessment of driving skill replacing driving tests and providing more information for insurance companies that effectively prices bad drivers away from driving? Done well, such things might considerably delay time when driving on public roads is banned.

BenB

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2570 on: November 15, 2017, 10:51:49 PM »
While in the West cities are thinking of introducing tens or in some cases hundreds of electric buses,
 China has already added hundreds of thousands. Shenzhen alone has 14,000, and by the end of this year its whole bus fleet will be electric:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/11/12/100-electric-bus-fleet-shenzhen-pop-11-9-million-end-2017/

Note that Shenzhen has a population of 11+ million. It is also home to electric bus (and car) manufacturer BYD.

"hundreds of thousands" ? ? ?

It appears so:

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/03/china-100-electric-bus-sales-grew-115700-2016/

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2571 on: November 16, 2017, 04:43:47 AM »
Quote
Will there be laws to require self driving cars do self drive rather than being driven? That may take a little longer and depend on the death and injury rates and how the technology develops:

Do we expect a supervise mode that takes over from erratic and dangerous driving?

I expect we'll see requirements for all cars sold to have 'crash avoidance' systems.  It would be hard to argue against systems that would prevent almost all crashes while adding little cost to the vehicle.  In fact, the additional (mostly sensor) cost should be repaid rapidly by lower insurance premiums.

How rapidly?  Within five years of a couple of companies demonstrating a well functioning system is possible.

For how long might we allow self-steering?  I expect self-steering to die a natural death.  At some point demand is likely to drop so low that car companies just won't bother with the extra design/tool up costs.

Some people are currently opposed (even strongly opposed) to give up driving and turn it over to a more capable system.  I remember people who objected to remote controls for TVs.  Who still gets up and walks to their TV to change channels these days? 

numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2572 on: November 16, 2017, 12:57:10 PM »
The idea that we'll speed down our highways at 120 to 150 MPH is interesting.  Once we've installed enough renewable generation the extra energy required shouldn't make the cost prohibitive.  At those speeds we reduce the number of cars on highways, people would get to destination and off the road faster.  At some point simply ban human driven cars from highways.

With 120 mph car traffic, you’d decrease air traffic a lot, and rail traffic, and bus traffic — but how do you decrease highway traffic?

(edited to add the relevant quote)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:29:22 PM by numerobis »

crandles

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2573 on: November 16, 2017, 01:58:33 PM »
With 120 mph car traffic, you’d decrease air traffic a lot, and rail traffic, and bus traffic — but how do you decrease highway traffic?

Not sure how to answer as I am not sure what you are getting at. What is aim of this question?

possibly
Why would you need to if it was all renewable electric powered?
possibly
700mph hyperloop?
possibly
encourage videoconferencing?








Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2574 on: November 16, 2017, 02:07:32 PM »
Sigmetnow,
Per Wikipedia, "As of 2016, 156,000 buses are being put into service per year in China."

Thanks.  As I thought, that looks like it is the number for “electrified” buses — including hybrids.

A couple links in, I found the chart below for 100% electric buses.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/03/china-100-electric-bus-sales-grew-115700-2016/

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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2575 on: November 16, 2017, 02:28:37 PM »
Sigmetnow,
Per Wikipedia, "As of 2016, 156,000 buses are being put into service per year in China."

Thanks.  As I thought, that looks like it is the number for “electrified” buses — including hybrids.

A couple links in, I found the chart below for 100% electric buses.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/03/china-100-electric-bus-sales-grew-115700-2016/


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« Reply #2576 on: November 16, 2017, 02:51:04 PM »
I assume that electric motors, wiring and controls are much lighter than the large diesel engines and transmissions they'll replace. Batteries of course are much heavier per kilometer than the diesel fuel needed to go a certain distance.
The trucks I was familiar with in the 1960's typically carried ~200 American Gallons, giving a range of ~500 miles, which was also considered a normal day's drive. 10 hours of driving  @ an average of 50 MPH.
Two questions come to mind. How much additional weight would a battery pack capable of 500 miles add to the load, and, if one limited a vehicle to the same weight as a diesel vehicle, with fuel, how far would that battery pack take the loaded vehicle?
Terry

BenB

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2577 on: November 16, 2017, 03:36:41 PM »

Thanks.  As I thought, that looks like it is the number for “electrified” buses — including hybrids.

A couple links in, I found the chart below for 100% electric buses.

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/02/03/china-100-electric-bus-sales-grew-115700-2016/

Add another 100,000 (estimated) for 2017, and I'd say that makes (3) hundreds of thousands of buses. Whatever you want to call it, it's a different order of magnitude to anywhere else in the world. Of course, many of those buses are quite small, but still...

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2578 on: November 16, 2017, 06:24:33 PM »
I assume that electric motors, wiring and controls are much lighter than the large diesel engines and transmissions they'll replace. Batteries of course are much heavier per kilometer than the diesel fuel needed to go a certain distance.
The trucks I was familiar with in the 1960's typically carried ~200 American Gallons, giving a range of ~500 miles, which was also considered a normal day's drive. 10 hours of driving  @ an average of 50 MPH.
Two questions come to mind. How much additional weight would a battery pack capable of 500 miles add to the load, and, if one limited a vehicle to the same weight as a diesel vehicle, with fuel, how far would that battery pack take the loaded vehicle?
Terry

Terry,
 See “Electrek’s Take” in this article, where they compare diesel and battery trucks:
https://electrek.co/2017/11/13/tesla-semi-unveiling-electric-truck-expectations/

Tesla Semi Truck unveiling is tonight!
Tesla Semi truck livestream starts at 8pm PST/11pm EST (Nov 16), 4am UTC (Nov 17).
Probably at tesla.com
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 06:30:08 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2579 on: November 16, 2017, 09:58:21 PM »
EV push in China:

Volkswagen announces $12 billion effort to bring 40 new electric cars to China
Quote
...the first electric vehicle under the joint-venture will enter production during the first half of 2018 and hit the market soon after. Heizmann says that the number of vehicles offered through the brand in China should rise to 40 by 2025.

In terms of volume, it should result in 400,000 units of electric vehicles a year by 2020 and 1.5 million by 2025. ...
https://electrek.co/2017/11/16/volkswagen-announces-new-electric-cars-china/

Tesla builds another giant 50-Supercharger station in China
https://electrek.co/2017/11/16/tesla-giant-50-supercharger-station-china/
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2580 on: November 16, 2017, 10:38:49 PM »
With 120 mph car traffic, you’d decrease air traffic a lot, and rail traffic, and bus traffic — but how do you decrease highway traffic?

Not sure how to answer as I am not sure what you are getting at. What is aim of this question?

possibly
Why would you need to if it was all renewable electric powered?
possibly
700mph hyperloop?
possibly
encourage videoconferencing?

Sorry, I hadn't quoted what I was talking about!

Bob mentioned that with cars going 120 mph there would be less traffic on the highway (because people would reach their destination twice as fast). I'm dubious, and I'd prefer we work towards limiting personal automobiles:

1. History shows that making more lanes just makes more cars. In this case, we have the same number of lanes but cars take up half the lane-minutes for any given trip, same effect in the end. That will likely be filled up by people switching from taking mass transit (or Skype) to riding in a car. So I don't think traffic will fall.

2. The fuel burned by a car is the bulk of the damage, but there's still damage from the road itself, from the mining for the car materials, from mining and construction for the power infrastructure, from tires, etc. Switching to EVs is a huge boon to the environment. Switching from mass transit to personal transit is bad for the environment.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2581 on: November 17, 2017, 03:22:06 AM »
With 120 mph car traffic, you’d decrease air traffic a lot, and rail traffic, and bus traffic — but how do you decrease highway traffic?

Not sure how to answer as I am not sure what you are getting at. What is aim of this question?

possibly
Why would you need to if it was all renewable electric powered?
possibly
700mph hyperloop?
possibly
encourage videoconferencing?

Sorry, I hadn't quoted what I was talking about!

Bob mentioned that with cars going 120 mph there would be less traffic on the highway (because people would reach their destination twice as fast). I'm dubious, and I'd prefer we work towards limiting personal automobiles:

1. History shows that making more lanes just makes more cars. In this case, we have the same number of lanes but cars take up half the lane-minutes for any given trip, same effect in the end. That will likely be filled up by people switching from taking mass transit (or Skype) to riding in a car. So I don't think traffic will fall.

2. The fuel burned by a car is the bulk of the damage, but there's still damage from the road itself, from the mining for the car materials, from mining and construction for the power infrastructure, from tires, etc. Switching to EVs is a huge boon to the environment. Switching from mass transit to personal transit is bad for the environment.
Ramen to the bolded.


I can envisage a future where you walk/bike to your HSR station, are whisked to your destination city's transportation hub where a subway, trolley or E-bus is ready to drop you within a block or so of your destination.
The new transportation hub system in K/W, (Kitchener/Waterloo) is being built so that when/if HSR is finally a reality, a bus, trolley, and light rail system will be in place.


https://www.therecord.com/news-story/7081494-region-transit-hub-project-in-kitchener-slowly-moving-forward/


Coming soon to a city near you!  :)


Unless of course you live in the land of the not-so-permafrost.  :(


Terry

numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2582 on: November 17, 2017, 03:56:36 AM »
We actually have a very nice mass transit system for our size: $7 you get a ride anywhere in a cab. The cab picks up and drops off passengers on the way, it’s not exclusive for you.

Just need to electrify it, and for that, we need batteries that don’t void their warranty upon spending a day at -30. Surviving a 24-hour period down to -45 would be fine.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2583 on: November 17, 2017, 04:52:30 AM »
Tesla truck livestream is here: https://livestream.tesla.com
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2584 on: November 17, 2017, 05:20:09 AM »
We actually have a very nice mass transit system for our size: $7 you get a ride anywhere in a cab. The cab picks up and drops off passengers on the way, it’s not exclusive for you.

Just need to electrify it, and for that, we need batteries that don’t void their warranty upon spending a day at -30. Surviving a 24-hour period down to -45 would be fine.
The 7$ cab deal sounds wonderful.
I'd actually been thinking of a video I'd just seen documenting a highway near Yellowknife that had been destroyed as the ground beneath parts of it had melted away.
It seemed as though rail at any speed would be difficult there, & tunneling would be asking for trouble.
Is the permafrost in your region still permanent?
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2585 on: November 17, 2017, 06:20:46 AM »
First look at the Tesla Semi Truck specs:

Tesla Semi will go 0-60 in 5 seconds, 20 seconds with 80,000 pounds (max load allowed on road)
Up-hill at 65MPH versus 45MPH for other semis
500 miles on a single charge, even with max load
$5,000 reservation with production in 2019, reserve today and get it in two-ish years
$200,000 to $250,000 price  Nov 23 update: $150,000 to $200,000  https://electrek.co/2017/11/22/tesla-semi-expected-price-electric-truck/
Super aerodynamic
4 motors (if one or two motors break down, can still run on two)
Elon confirms Megachargers, says Tesla Semi can add 400 miles of range in 30 minutes of charging
“By the time you are done with your break, the truck is ready to go. You will not be waiting for your truck to charge,” according to Elon.
Musk says the Tesla Semi will have 1 million mile guarantee, while the brake pads will have “quasi-infinite” lifespan with regen braking
$1.26/mile average cost versus $1.51/mile for diesel truck
In convoy mode, will be cheaper than rail.


Roadster 2 !
And the next-gen Roadster just emerged from the Semi…
All numbers are for the base model…
Roadster 2 does 0-60mph in 1.9 seconds
Fastest production car ever
Quarter mile in 8.9 seconds
620 mile range.  Seats 4.  With luggage space.
0 to 100mph in 4.2 seconds
200KWH battery pack
“The point of doing this is to give a hardcore smackdown to internal combustion cars.” – Elon

https://electrek.co/2017/11/16/tesla-semi-live-blog/
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 04:58:05 PM by Sigmetnow »
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oren

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2586 on: November 17, 2017, 10:04:13 AM »
Wow at these specs. And if a lot of Semi reservations come in, he gets another round of free financing, which might help explain why he's running ahead with it even at this crucial point of time.

TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2587 on: November 17, 2017, 10:22:38 AM »
The specs provided are very impressive. 500 miles between charges is a great fit with America's traditional long haul trucking, although with the impressive acceleration I'd expect additional miles could be squeezed out in a typical driving day.
Nothing so far reported about cab weight or battery specs, although a mWh battery is implied. If Elon can deliver without the battery weight interfering with the maximum load he's really come up with a game changer.


Thanks Sig for keeping us on top of this.
Terry

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #2588 on: November 17, 2017, 10:02:50 PM »
Edit:  A better video of the unveil event (and a 9-minute supercut, if you’re in a rush) is now available.  See this link: https://electrek.co/2017/12/14/tesla-full-video-semi-roadster-unveiling-event/


At the Tesla Semi Truck Unveil event last night, the drag coefficient of the truck was noted to be better than the $3 million dollar Bugatti Chiron.  As Electrek wrote: “I can only imagine the supercar maker boardroom conversations this morning.”

Independent torque control on the four motorized wheels means “No jack-knifing, ever.”
“Survives a thermonuclear explosion, or you get a full refund.”

Here’s a video (from Tesla cameras) of the event.  (Audio is a bit wonky in spots.) 34 minutes.
Elon Musk Unveils the Tesla Semi Truck & Roadster 2.0 full event


THIS IS THE TESLA SEMI TRUCK
500 miles of range and more aerodynamic than a supercar
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/16/16667366/tesla-semi-truck-announced-price-release-date-electric-self-driving

Tesla Semi, an electric big rig truck with 500-mile range, rolls into reality
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2017/11/16/tesla-semi-electric-big-rig-truck-rolls-into-reality/873162001/

MEET THE TESLA SEMITRUCK, ELON MUSK'S MOST ELECTRIFYING GAMBLE YET
https://www.wired.com/story/tesla-truck-revealed/

Watch this supercut of Elon Musk unveiling Tesla’s new Semi truck and Roadster
Article and 9-minute Verge video:
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/17/16669142/tesla-semi-roadster-2017-supercut-watch

What Does Tesla's Automated Truck Mean for Truckers?
https://www.wired.com/story/what-does-teslas-truck-mean-for-truckers/

Tesla Semi: Walmart orders 15 new electric trucks, several other companies jump on board too
Quote
Update: Canada’s grocery giant Loblaws confirmed an order of 25 Tesla Semi trucks. More are coming too.
https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla-semi-walmart-order-new-electric-trucks/

https://www.tesla.com/semi/
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:48:09 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2589 on: November 17, 2017, 10:08:41 PM »
“The point of doing this [car] is to give a hardcore smackdown to gasoline cars.”
- Elon Musk


The new Tesla Roadster 2 is the halo car for the entire EV industry
https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/new-tesla-roadster-halo/

Tesla’s new second-generation Roadster will be the fastest production car ever made
Quote
Musk said he wouldn’t confirm the top speed, but hinted that it was “above 250 mph.” By comparison, the Agera RS by Sweden’s Koenigsegg currently holds the world record at 277.9 mph.

As fans gasped, Musk said the Roadster had a 200kwh battery pack and a 620-mile range per charge, or over 1,000 kilometers. Again, another record shattered. Or so Musk claims. Imagine driving to Los Angeles to San Francisco, and back, without recharging, Musk teased. 
https://www.theverge.com/2017/11/17/16669024/tesla-roadster-2017-fastest-car-world
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2590 on: November 17, 2017, 10:11:10 PM »
Tesla unveils first image of its electric pickup truck and it almost sounds like a joke
Quote
After going through the specs of the Tesla Semi, Musk announced that the company leveraged the development of the truck to make a massive pickup truck version:

    “It’s a pickup truck that can carry a pickup truck.”

It almost looks like the vehicle is a design exercise to see what they can do with the technologies that they developed for Tesla Semi.
https://electrek.co/2017/11/17/tesla-pickup-truck-first-image-unveil/
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2591 on: November 18, 2017, 10:13:52 PM »
15 trucks for Walmart — that’s like me buying a pack of gum at the checkout counter. 25 for Loblaws is more like a chocolate bar.

Heartening nevertheless that there’s orders coming in at launch from major companies.

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2592 on: November 18, 2017, 11:16:14 PM »
for all those who like it not only efficient and clean but some fun as well :-)

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/neuer-tesla-roadster-marktstart-reichweite-preis-12014497.html

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2593 on: November 19, 2017, 04:46:54 PM »
15 trucks for Walmart — that’s like me buying a pack of gum at the checkout counter. 25 for Loblaws is more like a chocolate bar.

Heartening nevertheless that there’s orders coming in at launch from major companies.

I don't disagree, but...  it's not surprising for them to be cautious around a multi-million-dollar order for a whole new technology.  Also, they will probably want time to choose where to build a private charging infrastructure beyond the first locations; retrain drivers; and study ways to improve their distribution efficiency to take advantage of the new trucks’ capabilities (e.g., convoys, and the benefits of each of the two different-size trucks).  I expect it will be more than just the livery on the trucks that will need updating! :)
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 04:53:41 PM by Sigmetnow »
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2594 on: November 19, 2017, 07:01:58 PM »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/electric-trucks-trucking-industry-1.4407737

CBC noticed and can't even find anyone to say it's a bad idea. Normally they're dead-set against anything that would hurt the oil industry (while at the same time cheering on environmental causes -- they are experts at compartmentalizing).

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« Reply #2595 on: November 19, 2017, 07:45:36 PM »
Tesla kicked the vehicle manufacturing industry in the head a couple of days ago.  If Tesla delivers the semi that was unveiled diesel trucks are done.  Companies will quickly move to electric for the savings and many cities will tighten up on diesel trucks inside their boundaries.

Tesla has created 'the' halo car for the auto industry.  Quicker, as now announced, than all but a couple of exotic cars and likely to get faster before production.  Faster has not been made clear but 'over 250 MPH' suggests that Tesla is going to go after the > 277 MPH title.  And the price, for what it is, is modest. 

This is a $250k supercar and the (slower) competition sells for $1 million and up.  There are significantly slower cars that sell for $3 million that sell because they are fast.

http://www.topcarrating.com/topspeed.php

The only thing left for these companies is the hope that people will buy their product just to show others that they have significant money to waste.

The next thing I'd like to see Tesla do is to get their Model 3 production up to a million units per year and then bring the price down so that the out of pocket cost over a five or six year payoff would be no more than that of a Toyota Camry with the same features.

Do that, let BYD and some other companies electrify buses, garbage trucks, delivery vans and other niches.  Let other companies market econo-EVs, ~125 mile range with limited bells and whistles.  We could see the end of internal combustion engine manufacturing within a decade.

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2596 on: November 19, 2017, 07:58:24 PM »
Quote
Bob mentioned that with cars going 120 mph there would be less traffic on the highway (because people would reach their destination twice as fast). I'm dubious, and I'd prefer we work towards limiting personal automobiles

If you would reach your destination in an hour at 60 miles per hour (a 60 mile trip) at 120 MPH you'd get there in half an hour and be on the highway only half the time.  That would free up the road space for another car to use.

I think we should try to remain open minded about the ideal number of seats per vehicle.  Right now it makes sense to use larger vehicles (buses rather than cars) because it increases the number of passengers per driver and it lowers energy use if most/all the seats are full.  It obviously wouldn't be very efficient to use a bus as your single occupant ride to work.

Some time from now there will be no need to be highly energy efficient.  Once we get all fossil fuels off our grids we can continue to add renewable generation and use as much energy as we like.  (Mexico just contracted for solar at $0.0177/kWh.  Less than 2 cents.)

Maybe the future for moderate length trips is group-sized self-driving vehicles moving at >100 MPH.  The group might be only one person, a couple, a family, a bunch of people heading to the same destination.  We might see single occupant vehicles speeding along two or three abreast in a single lane, sort of enclosed motorcycles but comfortable.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2597 on: November 19, 2017, 08:42:23 PM »
More on the “megachargers” for Tesla trucks.  Musk wasn’t kidding when he tweeted that the proposed ultra-fast car chargers of 350kW would be a child’s toy in comparison.  Tesla is looking at more like 1.6 megawatts.  All from solar, he said, and at a low, Tesla price.

Tesla's new 'Megachargers' will give its Semis power for 400 miles in 30 minutes
http://mashable.com/2017/11/17/tesla-semi-megachargers/

Close-up look at the Tesla Semi “Megacharger” charging port
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi-megacharger-charging-port-close-up-look/
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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2598 on: November 19, 2017, 08:55:54 PM »
The Tesla Mega-charger port with 4 pairs of input pins suggests to me that the charging speed comes from 4 parallel charging channels. Each pair can charge 1/4 of the batteries at around 350kw cutting the charge time in four while keeping each at a proven power level.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #2599 on: November 19, 2017, 08:57:06 PM »
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/electric-trucks-trucking-industry-1.4407737

CBC noticed and can't even find anyone to say it's a bad idea. Normally they're dead-set against anything that would hurt the oil industry (while at the same time cheering on environmental causes -- they are experts at compartmentalizing).

I remember how surprised I was a couple years ago, the first time I saw a piece about Tesla on CNBC (financial channel) which said nothing negative about the company.  Amazing! ;D
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