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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4300 on: June 13, 2018, 08:39:02 PM »
”And in the U.S., there is an entire mystique around your car, the ability to just get up and go.”

Yes.  But think of the way Uber and Lyft transport took off.  A personal vehicle is typically only used about 5-10% of the day, so one vehicle could serve many people. If you could summon a car on your smartphone (and in fact summon a different type of car/van/pickup truck) as you needed one, the attraction of paying for insurance, maintenance, parking, etc. for a personal car is bound to diminish.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4301 on: June 13, 2018, 08:46:52 PM »
I say the environment needs another 2008. The politicians and central bankers are fighting tooth and nail to prop up the economy on mountains of debt. Off-topic here I know, but that chart by SH above is what the environment needs.
...

The change will likely not happen due to someone in power saying, “You need to own fewer cars.”  More likely, it will be the result of externalities like the desire to reduce air pollution, and the availability of cheaper alternatives to cars.
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4302 on: June 13, 2018, 08:47:59 PM »
”And in the U.S., there is an entire mystique around your car, the ability to just get up and go.”

Yes.  But think of the way Uber and Lyft transport took off.  A personal vehicle is typically only used about 5-10% of the day, so one vehicle could serve many people. If you could summon a car on your smartphone (and in fact summon a different type of car/van/pickup truck) as you needed one, the attraction of paying for insurance, maintenance, parking, etc. for a personal car is bound to diminish.

No question this is happening in the U.S.. Young adults are far less likely to own a car.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4303 on: June 13, 2018, 09:19:29 PM »
If we can manufacture X number ICEVs a year then we can manufacture X number EVs per year.  Allow about five years for new battery and electric motor plants to come online.

I doubt we'll see some sort of 2x by year sort of transition.  Let's assume EVs reach manufacturing cost parity before 2020 (Tesla says 2018 for them).  And EVs become cheaper to manufacture than ICEVs by 2025 (Tesla says 2020 for them).  Then sometime before 2030 it should be cheaper to purchase an EV than an similar-feature ICEV.  My guess is that point is closer to 2025 than 2030.

At that point we should see a rapid flip.  Just like we saw with non-CRT monitors and TVs, digital cameras, and other technology flips.  The old, less good and more expensive dies out quickly.

Then there's robotaxis which stand to greatly change the number of vehicles on the road.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4304 on: June 13, 2018, 09:24:40 PM »
Loop and Hyperloop...

Standard tunnel boring speed 60 feet per day (average).  Musk says that Boring can operate at 14x standard.

NYC to Washington DC 200 miles - straight line.

200 miles = 1,056,000 feet.

60 feet per day = 17,600 days.

600 feet per day (10x improvement, a bit more conservative than Musk’s 14x) = 1,760 days

Ten boring machines = 176 days. 

Open six entry holes.  Insert one machine at each end and two in all other openings (one headed north and one south).  Half a year and the tunnel is dug.

Ten boring machines = 176 days.  Six months.

3,000 miles coast to coast.  200 10x-tunneling machines could complete a coast to coast tunnel in half a year. 

If the Loop and Hyperloop work then there are likely be jobs for hundreds, if not thousands of small tunnel boring machines.  The heavy traffic routes could be built out quickly by simply putting more machines on the job.

Finish the most important runs and then gang up on the lower priority routes.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4305 on: June 13, 2018, 09:57:10 PM »
I don’t agree with everything this article says (EV manufacturing costs will soon be less than ICEVs, even with sensors/computers), but it’s an interesting guess about the future.

Driverless Tech Will Impact These 5 Industries
Quote
Just as the cloud has led to the transition of computing as a scalable service rather than a concrete product like hardware, analysts see a similar evolution with self-driving cars. As autonomous vehicle technology advances, commuters and others (especially in cities) are expected to no longer need their own cars and can rely on a fleet of driverless vehicles to ferry them to and from work, home, or wherever they need to go. Since the biggest cost today of ridesharing services like Uber is the driver, eliminating that will make such rides vastly cheaper, therefore making the comparative expense of owning a car untenable for many.

Among the industries that will be most clearly impacted are auto manufacturers and ridesharing services, but also insurance companies will bear a burden since car crashes are expected to decline. Gas stations, airlines, and hotels are all connected to the transportation industry and will be changed as well. Manufacturing costs for cars will increase due to the quantity and cost of the technology necessary in AVs, meaning that potentially car ownership will decline. ...
https://www.nasdaq.com/article/driverless-tech-will-impact-these-5-industries-cm976514
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gerontocrat

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4306 on: June 13, 2018, 10:16:45 PM »
Loop and Hyperloop...

Standard tunnel boring speed 60 feet per day (average).  Musk says that Boring can operate at 14x standard.


Like these boring machines will not be boring through a uniform layer of sand and gravel on a flat surface.

Geology?
Rock Types
Igneous Rocks. Basalt. Gabbro. Granite. Obsidian. Volcanic Ash and Tuff.
Sedimentary Rocks. Clays, Mudstones and Shales. Limestones. Sandstone.
Metamorphic Rocks. Gneiss. Marble. Quartzite. Schist. Slate.

Faults, fractures, folding.

Geography:-
Hills, valleys, mountains.
Underground water tables,
Underground rivers.

I can't believe the arithmetic used to calculate time scales in your posts, or the use of distance as a straight line twixt origin and destination.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:23:59 PM by gerontocrat »
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4307 on: June 13, 2018, 10:53:05 PM »
Quote
I don’t agree with everything this article says (EV manufacturing costs will soon be less than ICEVs, even with sensors/computers)

Independent analyses have set manufacturing cost parity at battery pack prices higher than $200/kWh.  Tesla expects to hit parity this year.  They didn't declare parity at $190/kWh so the original >$200 may have been off a bit.

Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4308 on: June 13, 2018, 11:05:23 PM »
Quote
Like these boring machines will not be boring through a uniform layer of sand and gravel on a flat surface.

Elon stated that average boring speeds are  60 feet per day.  That would mean an average speed in all rock/dirt/sand conditions.  If you think that wrong you could look up a more reliable number.

Quote
I can't believe the arithmetic used to calculate time scales in your posts,

If you can't believe my arithmetic then point out my mistake(s).

200 miles = 1,056,000 feet. 
200 x 5,280 = ?

60 feet per day = 17,600 days. 
1,056,000 / 60 = ?

600 feet per day (10x improvement, a bit more conservative than Musk’s 14x) = 1,760 days. 
17,600 / 10 = ?

Ten boring machines = 176 days. 
1,760 / 10 = ?


Quote
or the use of distance as a straight line twixt origin and destination.

The routes won't be straight.  Most likely they will follow major highways as that is the easiest way to gaining access as opposed to getting an agreement with individual land owners.  IIRC the LA subway is largely under existing highways.

If Elon's '60 feet per day' and my math are approximately correct then it appears that a Loop or Hyperloop tunnel could be bored fairly rapidly by dedicating more tunneling machines to the job.

And since these are smaller machines which can be loaded onto a truck and hauled to a new site they are usable on multiple projects unlike the very large 'one tunnel only' machines which typically bury themselves at the end of the dig.




Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4309 on: June 14, 2018, 01:40:46 AM »
Loop and Hyperloop...

Standard tunnel boring speed 60 feet per day (average).  Musk says that Boring can operate at 14x standard.


Like these boring machines will not be boring through a uniform layer of sand and gravel on a flat surface.

Geology?
Rock Types
Igneous Rocks. Basalt. Gabbro. Granite. Obsidian. Volcanic Ash and Tuff.
Sedimentary Rocks. Clays, Mudstones and Shales. Limestones. Sandstone.
Metamorphic Rocks. Gneiss. Marble. Quartzite. Schist. Slate.

Faults, fractures, folding.

Geography:-
Hills, valleys, mountains.
Underground water tables,
Underground rivers.

I can't believe the arithmetic used to calculate time scales in your posts, or the use of distance as a straight line twixt origin and destination.

This pdf on tunnel boring machines (TBM) may be of interest.  Different machine heads/types are used to work on different materials.  Pressure can be maintained in front of the drill head as necessary to deal with water or slurry.  Note: The Boring Company has significantly re-engineered the traditional TBM; I am not aware of the exact design of the new machine, but major improvements should be expected.

https://www.imia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/TBM-WG60-f-021209.pdf


Edit: cross-posted to the Boring thread.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2000.msg158736.html#msg158736
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 02:23:08 PM by Sigmetnow »
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4310 on: June 14, 2018, 03:28:43 AM »
Shared Humanity: I suspect the lifetime of gasoline-powered cars will shrink quite substantially when the replacement really hits. In your thought experiment, all new cars in 2026 are EVs. At that point, and in fact long before, gas stations start to close; mechanics start to lose the experience of working on oil pumps and head gaskets and timing belts and so on so repairs get more expensive or harder to get; parts manufacturers go bust or stop producing replacement parts, etc.

zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4311 on: June 14, 2018, 04:41:11 AM »
Americans drove 3.22 trillion miles last year.  Lets say a tesla uses about 300wh/mi.
That's a total of 966tWh

2016 American electricity consumption totaled 3762 tWh. 

So the united states would require a 25% increase in electricity output to satisfy the needs of electric automobiles. (sorta)





https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/21/516512439/record-number-of-miles-driven-in-u-s-last-year
Cars

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_01_01.html
Electricity

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4312 on: June 14, 2018, 01:39:36 PM »
The city of Chicago, Illinois, U.S., has selected Elon Musk’s The Boring Company to build a tunnel with high-speed ‘Loop system from downtown to one of the world’s busiest airports.

See the Boring thread: 
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2000.msg158735.html#msg158735
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4313 on: June 14, 2018, 03:08:07 PM »
Americans drove 3.22 trillion miles last year.  Lets say a tesla uses about 300wh/mi.
That's a total of 966tWh

2016 American electricity consumption totaled 3762 tWh. 

So the united states would require a 25% increase in electricity output to satisfy the needs of electric automobiles. (sorta)

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/21/516512439/record-number-of-miles-driven-in-u-s-last-year
Cars

https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_01_01.html
Electricity

Now factor in that about 1/3 of EV owners have solar panels on their roof — and that the EIA does not measure this behind-the-meter generation.

Also the amount of electricity that will no longer be needed to produce and distribute fuels for the ICE vehicles that EVs replace.
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ghoti

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4314 on: June 14, 2018, 03:34:23 PM »
What a surprise that zizek brings up a tired old myth about the burden of electric cars on the grid. Convenient to ignore how much electricity is used to refine fossil fuels when "worrying" about EVs driving up overall demand for electricity.

Here's a quick accounting of refinery demand that will disappear if gas isn't needed for cars:

Fully Charged Show
https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4?t=1m

Buddy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4315 on: June 14, 2018, 03:43:27 PM »
This Artist Imagines What A Future Electric Porsche 911 Could Look Like


https://jalopnik.com/this-artist-imagines-what-a-future-electric-porsche-911-1826806083

Car designers have really been "freed up" since you don't need "the tunnel" for a transmission.  Whether they are designing for the new VW Bus ..... or a Porsche 911 ..... they are able to create a car with more room, and less obtrusive things to design around.

Over the last 6 months, you can SEE and FEEL the significant push into electric transportation, whether it is in cars, motorcycles, scooters, buses, large semi trucks, etc.  It is REALLY gaining momentum ...... and this is going to effect the PSYCHOLOGY of "near term buyers" in the coming couple of years ..... when all of the sudden people are looking at the possibility of shelling a lot of shekels/pounds/dollars/euros for a large purchase.  They won't want to be buying a dinosaur (at least, not enough of them).

If you can steal away for 27 minutes some night when the kids are in bed and your wife is asleep ..... here's a good video that discusses the VW's that are coming, and they talk to the designers of the VE electric cars that are coming in the next couple of years.  Yes.... I LOVE THE MICROBUS.  Looks like it would be great for kids.... camping .... fishing .... business (remove the back seats to transport stuff) ..... etc.



 
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4316 on: June 14, 2018, 04:02:29 PM »
Sigmetnow: EIA doesn’t measure, but it does estimate distributed solar PV. There’s a line for that in their monthly electricity statistics, and it’s inckuded in the total solar.

numerobis

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« Reply #4317 on: June 14, 2018, 04:08:53 PM »
That said, residential solar is poorly set up to charge EVs. You’re at home mostly at night. Housing solar would thus need to transmit to elsewhere — roughly on par with how much it sucks in at peak demand, so it’s getting better utilization of the existing cables, but it doesn’t reduce the peak.

Commercial rooftop solar is perfect for the task though: charge the workers’ cars all day, no transmission needed.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4318 on: June 14, 2018, 04:24:10 PM »
That said, residential solar is poorly set up to charge EVs. You’re at home mostly at night. Housing solar would thus need to transmit to elsewhere — roughly on par with how much it sucks in at peak demand, so it’s getting better utilization of the existing cables, but it doesn’t reduce the peak.

Commercial rooftop solar is perfect for the task though: charge the workers’ cars all day, no transmission needed.

Solar panels or solar roof, plus batteries. You can order them both at the same time, and place (or website), you order your Tesla.  ;)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4319 on: June 14, 2018, 04:32:15 PM »
What a surprise that zizek brings up a tired old myth about the burden of electric cars on the grid. Convenient to ignore how much electricity is used to refine fossil fuels when "worrying" about EVs driving up overall demand for electricity.

Here's a quick accounting of refinery demand that will disappear if gas isn't needed for cars:

Fully Charged Show
https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4?t=1m

Thanks for the link!
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4320 on: June 14, 2018, 04:38:24 PM »
EVs are likely to be huge supporters of both wind and solar grid integration.

EVs need to charge, on average, three hours per day from a 220 vac outlet.  Cars  spend over 90% of the the time parked.  If a significant number of cars are plugged in throughout the 24 hour day then they would be able to charge using "surplus" wind/solar generation. 

Having a large dispatchable load means that wind and solar penetration can grow to very high percentage levels without using storage or curtailing.

Some amount of electricity will be freed up as we pump, refine, and distribute less fuel for ICEVs. 

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4321 on: June 14, 2018, 04:40:35 PM »
Sigmetnow: EIA doesn’t measure, but it does estimate distributed solar PV. There’s a line for that in their monthly electricity statistics, and it’s inckuded in the total solar.

OK, thanks.  I may have been thinking of California’s data.
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #4322 on: June 14, 2018, 04:48:35 PM »
Correct, the EIA does estimate end-user solar based on demand reductions supplied by utilities.  They report electricity generation without end-user and then in a separate column add it in.  They started adding end-user in 2014.

CAISO does not report end-user solar.   That leads to an under reporting when people talk about renewables in CA.

zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4323 on: June 14, 2018, 05:25:47 PM »
What a surprise that zizek brings up a tired old myth about the burden of electric cars on the grid. Convenient to ignore how much electricity is used to refine fossil fuels when "worrying" about EVs driving up overall demand for electricity.

Here's a quick accounting of refinery demand that will disappear if gas isn't needed for cars:

Fully Charged Show
https://youtu.be/BQpX-9OyEr4?t=1m

Those figures are incorrect. Electricity and energy are two different things.

Just intuitively, 4.5kWh has to ring some alarms in your head. 

Texas industrial electricity rates are 5.32 cents/kWh.  So a gallon would costs $0.24 in electricity alone. at $2.00 a gallon, that would be 25% of the entire cost.......

I've seen this 4.5kwh, 6kwh, per gallon cited so often. But no one even bothered to see if it's accurate.

refineries use fossil fuels for processing. They use electricity of course, but most of the processes use boilers and heaters powered by the less desirable fossil fuel products.  This is industrial processing 101.  Even some of the electricity is produced onsight with their own generators.  Like, these companies are in the business of selling fossil fuels, why would they not use them to power their facilities?


https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2013/11/f4/energy_use_and_loss_and_emissions_petroleum.pdf

This is from 2006, so a little old on numbers. But gives you a good idea of energy usage at american refineries


In 2016:

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capfuel_dcu_nus_a.htm
47,388 millions kWh electricity purchased

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_refp_dc_nus_mbbl_a.htm
7,348,911,000 barrels produced

That equals..... 154 Wh per barrel of crude refined.   Only 30 times less than the quoted figure... I'm sure you could play around with that number to account strictly for gasoline. But it won't change much.






magnamentis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4324 on: June 14, 2018, 05:33:45 PM »
Electricity and energy are two different things.

while all electricity is energy but not all energy is electricity but somehow based on electro magnetism in one for or another (also a poor but as short as possible statemet i know) does not mean that they're totally different things

even though there is a common meaning for "electricity" the common definition is not entirely correct IMO.

this does not mean any disagreement with your post as a whole, let me know your take on this, i generally like to seek agreement in terms and my english is definitely flawed, hence always ready to get input that helps improve it where i misunderstood something or expressed myself poorly (in english)
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zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4325 on: June 14, 2018, 06:02:21 PM »
Electricity and energy are two different things.

while all electricity is energy but not all energy is electricity but somehow based on electro magnetism in one for or another (also a poor but as short as possible statemet i know) does not mean that they're totally different things

even though there is a common meaning for "electricity" the common definition is not entirely correct IMO.

this does not mean any disagreement with your post as a whole, let me know your take on this, i generally like to seek agreement in terms and my english is definitely flawed, hence always ready to get input that helps improve it where i misunderstood something or expressed myself poorly (in english)

Absolutely. You're 100% correct.

I was specifically referring how Musk and others have been (purposely or not) creating misleading figures by conflating energy and electricity. they have been using overall energy input for oil refining as total electricity use. They do not consider that the vast majority of energy input is heat generated from fossil fuels.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4326 on: June 14, 2018, 06:28:23 PM »
Quote
...the vast majority of energy input is heat generated from fossil fuels.

Which is exactly the type of waste heat and CO2 saved by using fewer ICE vehicles.
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Bob Wallace

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4327 on: June 14, 2018, 06:37:17 PM »


Rejected energy = Mostly waste heat

Energy services = The energy we actually use. 

Energy services is the energy we need to supply with renewables.  There's no need to replace waste heat.  In the US the energy we need is about one third of the energy we use.

zizek

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4328 on: June 14, 2018, 06:49:14 PM »
Quote
...the vast majority of energy input is heat generated from fossil fuels.

Which is exactly the type of waste heat and CO2 saved by using fewer ICE vehicles.

It's not waste heat though, the heat is used to refine crude products. Some people are under the assumption that the heat is created from electricity. But it's not. That's the premise of my post. It's good electric cars will reduce CO2 emissions. But they'll still need a substantial beefing of the electrical grid.  And reducing refining capacity will have a negligible effect on that.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4329 on: June 14, 2018, 07:04:18 PM »
Quote
...the vast majority of energy input is heat generated from fossil fuels.

Which is exactly the type of waste heat and CO2 saved by using fewer ICE vehicles.

It's not waste heat though, the heat is used to refine crude products. Some people are under the assumption that the heat is created from electricity. But it's not. That's the premise of my post. It's good electric cars will reduce CO2 emissions. But they'll still need a substantial beefing of the electrical grid.  And reducing refining capacity will have a negligible effect on that.

Increase clean energy in the grid.  Reduce dirty fuel production.  An excellent environmental bargain.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4330 on: June 14, 2018, 07:17:06 PM »
Bloomberg now thinks auto insurers will do OK covering autonomous cars — if companies can adapt.

Driverless Cars May Cut Traffic Jams, Not Insurance Premiums
 - Coverage seen shifting from individual owners to manufacturers
 - Technology will bring new liabilities, like cyber attacks
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/driverless-cars-may-cut-traffic-jams-not-insurance-premiums
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Bob Wallace

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« Reply #4331 on: June 14, 2018, 07:48:21 PM »
Bloomberg now thinks auto insurers will do OK covering autonomous cars — if companies can adapt.

Driverless Cars May Cut Traffic Jams, Not Insurance Premiums
 - Coverage seen shifting from individual owners to manufacturers
 - Technology will bring new liabilities, like cyber attacks
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-14/driverless-cars-may-cut-traffic-jams-not-insurance-premiums

Flawed analysis.  Self-driving cars should (almost) never cause rear-end collisions. 

There might be a rare problem when a leading car suddenly swerves into another lane to avoid hitting a stopped car as we've seen a couple of times, but those problems should get sorted out.

Self-driving cars should (almost) never change lanes causing a blind spot collusion. 

If self-driving cars are involved in either of these two types of collisions the other car would be at fault and their insurance would be liable for payment.

Once software is improved over the first few years self-driving cars should (almost) never T-bone another car, run off the road, drive off the end of a pier, drive too fast for road conditions, attempt to pass when there's an approaching car, drive drunk, text, go to sleep, or do the other things humans do that cause 90% of all wrecks.

State Farm (major US car insurer) has already said that their car insurance business is likely to drastically shrink with self-driving cars.

Any sensors involved in a less-than-total-destruction wreck should be inexpensive cameras.  Lidar units are likely to be installed behind the windshield or somewhere else high on the vehicle.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4332 on: June 14, 2018, 08:48:19 PM »
Review of the Jaguar I-PACE by Electrek.  Includes the Fully Charged video review.
The car comes with an acceleration sound that “takes cues from a car accelerating but more from Star Wars Tie Fighter and other sci-fi space shows.”

https://electrek.co/2018/06/14/jaguar-i-pace-review-the-240-mile-luxury-sport-utility-is-everything/
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numerobis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4333 on: June 15, 2018, 02:32:59 AM »
I wonder if self-driving cars will eventually be able to ditch various collision-survival mechanisms like air bags, as being obsolete. That would save a lot of construction effort.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4334 on: June 15, 2018, 08:16:35 PM »
I wonder if self-driving cars will eventually be able to ditch various collision-survival mechanisms like air bags, as being obsolete. That would save a lot of construction effort.

Interesting question.  Airplanes don’t have airbags (although at least one small one has an emergency parachute that deploys from the tail).  High-performance military planes have ejection seats.  But commercial planes depend on skilled pilots to keep their passengers alive.  If ‘George’ the AI driver is 10 times safer than a human driver, and the vehicle is adequately tested and robust, the interior design emphasis may pivot from safety to comfort.
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4335 on: June 15, 2018, 08:53:17 PM »
Volkswagen Group fined $1.2B by German authorities for diesel scandal
Quote
The fallout from a global emissions cheating scandal keeps falling. This week, German authorities fined Volkswagen AG nearly $1.2 billion for selling more than 10 million cars with emissions-cheating software.

The sum pales in comparison to the billions Volkswagen has paid in the U.S., which has totaled more than $24 billion so far, but is one of the largest penalties levied in Germany.

In a statement, VW said it would pay the fine without appeal.

"Following thorough examination, Volkswagen AG accepted the fine and it will not lodge an appeal against it. Volkswagen AG, by doing so, admits its responsibility for the diesel crisis..." the automaker said in a statement Wednesday. ...
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1117223_volkswagen-group-fined-1-2b-by-german-authorities-for-diesel-scandal
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4336 on: June 15, 2018, 08:55:43 PM »
UPS is buying a fleet of 1,000 electric vans from Workhorse
Quote
Workhorse says that the new N-Gen electric van has a range of 100 miles (160 km) on a single charge, which should be enough for most delivery routes, and they can add a 75-mile (120 km) gas range extender as an option.

Right now, it’s geared toward urban deliveries, but they are also planning additional configurations for telecom service/municipal use and bigger versions with 700-cubic-foot and 1,000-cubic-foot models. Those are expected to enter production in late 2018.

By the end of the year, Workhorse says that it plans to put 2,000 all-electric vans on the road.
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/ups-fleet-1000-electric-vans-workhorse/
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Jim Hunt

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« Reply #4337 on: June 16, 2018, 12:50:25 AM »
Self-driving cars should (almost) never cause rear-end collisions. 

The techies amongst us may be interested in the new u-blox silicon chip?

https://twitter.com/V2G_EVSE/status/1007749718372438017
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Bob Wallace

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« Reply #4338 on: June 16, 2018, 01:44:46 AM »
Self-driving cars should (almost) never cause rear-end collisions. 

The techies amongst us may be interested in the new u-blox silicon chip?

https://twitter.com/V2G_EVSE/status/1007749718372438017

I'd guess that not many years will pass before all new cars sold will have to have the ability to communicate with other cars to some extent.  At the minimum we should see a "Don't bump into me" feature.

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4339 on: June 16, 2018, 03:06:47 PM »
CHAdeMO has now unveiled its new protocol for 400 kW ‘ultra-fast’ charging.

CHAdeMO is pushing for faster electric vehicle charging with new 400 kW protocol
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/chademo-faster-electric-vehicle-charging-400-kw-protocol/
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Jim Hunt

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« Reply #4340 on: June 16, 2018, 04:36:17 PM »
CHAdeMO is pushing for faster electric vehicle charging

They may be "pushing" for it, but given that I sit on the relevant international standards committees I can assure you that they have a long way to go to pass that particular "finishing line". See also:

https://twitter.com/V2G_EVSE/status/1007865129529208832

« Last Edit: June 16, 2018, 04:58:35 PM by Jim Hunt »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

numerobis

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« Reply #4341 on: June 16, 2018, 05:08:14 PM »
Jim, when I follow your links I have literally no clue what’s notable. I usually just ignore them.

To prevent that, please write something summarizing what your link demonstrates. Don’t assume we’ve all been following the ins and outs of what you know. I’d love to learn from you but I can’t, without the background.

Jim Hunt

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« Reply #4342 on: June 16, 2018, 08:09:41 PM »
Please write something summarizing what your link demonstrates.

I quite understand.

However you may have noticed that I've been rather quiet on the sea ice front recently? We're in "startup mode" here in SilicInny Valley at the moment. I might attempt to swiftly correct the odd apparent misconception, but I'm afraid that detailed explanations will have to wait for a while longer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Inny,_Cornwall
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4343 on: June 16, 2018, 08:27:49 PM »
How school buses could help run your air conditioning on hot summer days
Illinois is proposing to spend more of its VW settlement money on electric school buses than any other state.
Quote
...School buses run on a fixed schedule — children are dropped off at school in the morning and picked up in the afternoon. The rest of the day, buses can be plugged into the grid and serve as batteries.

Aloysius Makalinao, a climate and clean energy fellow for the Natural Resource Defense Council, said that while all electric vehicles offer benefits as grid resources, the case for the buses is unique.

“They can be used as a grid service in times of peaking, especially in the summer when school is out and everyone turns on their air conditioning,” he said.

There are also broad health benefits for children in switching away from diesel buses, which spew nasty exhaust that can accumulate onboard and around nearby schools. ...
https://energynews.us/2018/06/12/midwest/how-school-buses-could-help-run-your-air-conditioning-on-hot-summer-days/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4344 on: June 16, 2018, 08:55:38 PM »
CHAdeMO has now unveiled its new protocol for 400 kW ‘ultra-fast’ charging.

CHAdeMO is pushing for faster electric vehicle charging with new 400 kW protocol
https://electrek.co/2018/06/15/chademo-faster-electric-vehicle-charging-400-kw-protocol/

One reason this news is interesting is because CHAdeMO today is limited to 50kW, which feels “behind the times.”  From the above article:
Quote
At the moment, the vast majority of those charging stations are only capable of a 50 kW charge rates, which is also what most EVs with CHAdeMO are capable of accepting.

100 kW to 200 kW charging stations are also coming in higher numbers, but now CHAdeMO is now pushing for 400 kW.

CHAdeMO 2.0 now allows for up to 400 kW – competitive with the latest CCS “ultra-fast” stations currently being built around the world as part of new networks.

Meanwhile, Elon Musk now says that the next version of the Tesla Supercharger (due later this year) will max out at 200 to 250 kW, because that’s what is best for the batteries. 

Tesla has years of real-life battery data.  And they offered quick battery swaps at one point, but the feature never became popular.  So will a 10 or 15 minute EV “fill-up” become the new normal?  Or will batteries become so cheap to replace that shortening their usable life by charging to the max becomes routine?  Or is there really a new battery out there that actually likes ultra-mega-fast charging?
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4345 on: June 16, 2018, 09:00:00 PM »
Tesla Model 3 production update: Elon Musk will be ‘almost 24/7’ at factory to help fix a few bottlenecks
Quote
CEO Elon Musk gave a status update to employees. He said that all parts of the production process are now operating at over 3,500 units per week and he will stay “almost 24/7” at the Fremont factory to help fix the last few bottlenecks to bring the production to ~700 units per day.

The update comes about a week after Tesla came out of the Model 3 production shutdown and Musk confirmed at the shareholder meeting that they are now sustaining a production of 500 units per day and a new production line is coming up. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-model-3-production-update-elon-musk-factory/

Edit: first dual-motor all-wheel-drive performance Model 3... rolls off new general assembly line, built in three weeks inside a tent next to the Fremont factory. 
https://electrek.co/2018/06/16/tesla-model-3-dual-motor-performance-new-assembly-line/
« Last Edit: June 17, 2018, 01:22:18 AM by Sigmetnow »
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Jim Hunt

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« Reply #4346 on: June 16, 2018, 09:24:49 PM »
Aloysius Makalinao, a climate and clean energy fellow for the Natural Resource Defense Council, said that while all electric vehicles offer benefits as grid resources, the case for the buses is unique

By way of example, where exactly does Aloysius explain precisely how "all electric vehicles [will] offer benefits as grid resources" in the real world as opposed to fantasy land?

http://www.V2G.co.uk/2012/07/renewable-energy-is-the-work-of-generations-of-engineers/
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Jim Hunt

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« Reply #4347 on: June 16, 2018, 09:36:20 PM »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4348 on: June 17, 2018, 02:19:55 AM »
You can take our picnic tables. But you can never take our freedom. ;D

Australian Police Are Actively Trying to Arrest Motorized Picnic Table Riders
https://motherboard.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/aekzv4/australian-police-are-actively-trying-to-arrest-motorized-picnic-table-riders
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sidd

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« Reply #4349 on: June 17, 2018, 05:24:26 AM »
Boy, these Australians live large. Here's something from a decade ago from Newark, Ohio (pronounced Nerk, Ahia)

random selections from news articles:

--
 ... 911 tapes ...  calm exchange between the driver's friend and the dispatcher.

 "I got a friend who wrecked a bar stool," the caller said.

Police in Newark ... found a man who had wrecked a bar stool powered by a deconstructed lawn mower.

consumed 15 beers

"I drank quite a bit after [the crash] because my head hurt so bad. I went in and drank a half a bottle of whiskey,"

can go up to 38 mph

charged with operating a vehicle while intoxicated

pleaded not guilty and has requested a jury trial.

--

The local news round there carried some followup. The guy had lost his driving license for DUI already. So he had to walk to the bar. He met someone in the bar that offered to sell him a motorized bar stool. So he bought it.

The day he got busted, the neighbours had heard him zooming it up and down the alley and doing tricks. When the cops showed up he was sitting on the sidewalk, bleeding profusely, drinking a beer.

I been in that bar. The sentiment round there was, (recall this was just after the bankers had gambled away all the money and the auto companies were on govt life support)

"Put him in charge of GM. He can't do any worse."

for the truly curious:

https://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Man_arrested_after_crashing_motorized_bar_stool_while_drunk

sidd