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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4650 on: July 05, 2018, 11:57:01 PM »
A Frightening New Reason to Worry About Air Pollution
A massive study solidifies the link between particulates from cars and diabetes.
Quote
It’s fairly well known that a bad diet, a lack of exercise, and genetics can all contribute to type 2 diabetes. But a new global study points to an additional, surprising culprit: the air pollution emitted by cars and trucks.
...
The study authors controlled for things like obesity and BMI, so it wasn’t the case that heavier people simply lived in more polluted neighborhoods and were also more likely to get diabetes.

The particles examined in this study are known as PM2.5, or particulate matter that’s 2.5 micrometers big—30 times smaller than a human hair. They are emitted by various types of industry and fuel burning, but in the United States, the biggest source of PM2.5 is cars, says Ziyad Al-Aly, the study’s senior author and an assistant professor of medicine at Washington University at St. Louis. When there’s lots of PM2.5 in the air, the air might look smoggy or hazy. In lighter concentrations, the particles are invisible.

Scientists are just beginning to understand what exactly makes PM2.5 so harmful, but a major reason is that it’s so small and contains toxic metals. Its size allows it to penetrate the lungs and enter the bloodstream. There, it can circulate to different organs and cause inflammation. The inflammation increases insulin resistance. Eventually, this insulin resistance can become so severe the pancreas becomes unable to pump out enough insulin to compensate, and diabetes can set in. ...
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/07/a-frightening-new-reason-to-worry-about-air-pollution/564428/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4651 on: July 06, 2018, 12:44:58 AM »
The image below is the top of ‘Inside EVs’ US EV Sales Data so far for June.
https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

They estimate 6,062 US Model 3 sales, but also estimate at least 2,250 additional Model 3’s went to Canada.
https://insideevs.com/june-2018-plug-in-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
(They also think Tesla crossed the 200,000 threshold in June, but there is some question as to when a sale for that criteria is counted.  It might be as late as when the vehicle registration is officially recorded, for example.)

Also of note: Toyota Camry sales were down in June (28,215) Year over Year.  Corolla sales also declined (25,947).
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1014663223927336961

Bloomberg’s Model 3 Tracker’s ‘Weekly Model 3 Production Rate’ chart estimates over 5,000 next week.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tesla-tracker/
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litesong

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4652 on: July 06, 2018, 06:32:57 PM »
Thanks litesong.
Having a battery cooling system should extend the battery lifespan.
Yes, the Nissan 40kW-hr Leaf's air cooling highlights how vulnerable battery packs are to abuse. But smug owners of liquid-cooled EVs con themselves if they can now ignore the long advertised (but recently buried) methods of proper battery treatment. One personable & smart (but battery treatment-stupid) internetter already had to replace his Tesla pack. He now avoids his worst battery treatments for his new battery pack, but I think he will still have troubles with his new pack, by avoiding treatments that would extend battery pack life to 100,000 to 200,000 miles.
Yes, as has been the tendency for second, third & fourth-hand internal combustion engines, where used car owners pay for the vehicle abuses of previous owners, EV owners will abuse battery packs & let "future owners" pay for their conceited avoidance of proper battery treatment 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 06:39:16 PM by litesong »

Neven

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4653 on: July 06, 2018, 07:37:40 PM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?
Compare, compare, compare

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4654 on: July 06, 2018, 08:37:49 PM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?

Different batteries prefer different things.  But from what I’ve read, it’s best to keep the charge between 20% and 80%.  (Charge to 100% only when you are about to start a long trip.) 
Avoiding extreme temperatures to the extent possible. (Thermally-conditioned batteries will use their own kWh as needed to cool or heat the pack.)
Some studies say fast-charging a lot hurts a battery, others say it has no effect; anecdotally, some Tesla batteries with the least degradation are supercharged all the time. 

Best bet is to check out forums for the type of car/battery you are interested in, and see what they are reporting.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 09:52:27 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4655 on: July 06, 2018, 09:54:41 PM »
Fun fact:  Tesla Model 3 sales at 5,000 a week would put it in a virtual tie with the average US 2017 sales of the Nissan Altima, the #3 best-selling family sedan in the US last year, behind only the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord.  And all the sedans in that Top 10 list are selling fewer cars this year:

http://www.nydailynews.com/autos/street-smarts/best-selling-family-cars-america-list-article-1.3823037



Ford slides deeper into China rut after worst ever first-half vehicle sales
BEIJING (Reuters) - Ford Motor’s (F.N) China slump intensified, with vehicle sales tumbling 38 percent in June and the automaker recording its worst ever first-half, as buyers shunned its aging models that are awaiting overhauls and flocked to rivals.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-ford/fords-china-vehicle-sales-in-june-slide-38-percent-year-on-year-idUSKBN1JW0TR
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jacksmith4tx

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4656 on: July 06, 2018, 09:57:12 PM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?

As mentioned above each battery chemistry will have different optimal operating environments and voltage controls. GM limits the Volt from getting too cold or hot and prevents the battery SoC% (State of Charge) from going below a certain level. Even if it's not plugged in it will start the gas engine to maintain the battery so it won't go completely dead. There is a down side to active temperature control.  You will have to pay for the system to be drained and refilled which is way more expensive than your typical oil change or radiator flush.

The technology is pointing to solid-state batteries for the transportation market.
SSB have the potential for fast charging, low fire risk, lighter and operate in a much wider power/temperature range. If you are to believe the industry it will be at least 5 or 6 years before they become widely available.

I have a feeling the residential and grid market will find something cheaper and longer lasting than SSB. The ideal battery size for residential use should be at least a couple of days of backup and should last 20 years or more.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 11:43:15 PM by jacksmith4tx »
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4657 on: July 06, 2018, 10:33:02 PM »
Images show the new Leaf charging at 102 kW.

Nissan Leaf prototype with new 60 kWh battery pack leaked fast-charging at 102 kW
Quote
Fast-charging has been controversial with the latest versions of the Leaf as Nissan has been limiting the charging capacity with repeated charge cycles, which created a controversy since it often results in the Leaf not charging as advertised.  The automaker claims that it is in order to limit battery degradation.

A new battery pack with the new 2019 version is expected to fix the problem and allow a higher charge rate.  Nissan is reportedly changing battery cells from AESC, Nissan’s own battery company which they sold this summer, to LG Chem.

The new battery pack is also reportedly equipped with a thermal management system, which would be a big step up for Nissan. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/07/06/nissan-leaf-prototype-new-battery-pack-leaked-fast-charging/
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litesong

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4658 on: July 06, 2018, 11:45:20 PM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?
.....it’s best to keep the charge between 20% and 80%.
Avoiding extreme temperatures to the extent possible.....
  Pay attention to distances between charge points & calculate NOT to violate the following battery pack life-extension methods. If you don't want to think, don't buy an EV. Stats for the air cooled, 40 kW-hr Nissan Leaf may give an extra thousand cycles if....... the charge is kept between 70% & 20% (not 80%/20%). You must pretend that 50% of your battery pack..... doesn't exist..... for longest longevity. Of course, that includes other measures to extend battery life......like not jamming electrons into the pack too quickly, not depleting the pack quickly (80+MPH & ya don' neet 0-60 in 5 seconds), drive gentle in the mountains, not trailering, live way away from the equator (not hot climes), don't drive in weather well below zero centigrade  ...... other restrictions, too. Don't violate these rules..... 'cept in dire emergencies.... & don't drive yourself into an emergency situation or make up a dire emergency scenerio to make you feel good about violating long-term care rules for your EV battery pack.
To the extent you violate these rules (& others) & re-sell your EV later, is the extent you don't care about other people..... specially those who are less well off than you & actually pay you money for your EV & its.... violated battery pack.
/////////
Also, don' give up your fossil fuel vehicles. We got two sweet, long enduring Hyundai Elantras plus a good Accent.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 12:15:57 AM by litesong »

magnamentis

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4659 on: July 07, 2018, 12:27:38 AM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?

NiCd + NiMh ask for a full discharge before re-charge due to the otherwise occuring memory effect that will reduce capacity significantly. To avoid the need to run with an almost empty battery that doesn't provide sufficent power for a use case for long, best is to use a charger that automatically is discharging a non-fully-discharged NiCd/NiMh battery before charging.

Li-ION + Similars as for never full discharge and never 100% charge while they are
software managed in EACH and EVERY case and that sofware when it shows you 100% charge in fact it's within the safe limits, which again in fact means that you can (fake) fully discharge because it will switch off way before the real zero is reached and (fake) full charge before it wil slow down and ultimately stop charging way before (real) full charge is reached.

lead batteries (cars, motorbikes starterbatteries etc.) are best just kept as fully charged as possible.
they last the longest when they never fully (deep) discharge and are kept as close to 100% as possible because the process of charging ultimately "verschlammt" no clue whether the direct translation would mean the same LOL. further very low but steady currents are healthiest for those.

need more, ask more,  but those are the actually most used kind of batteries.

charging Li-IONs with brute force (non-software-managed) is illegal in most countries because an uncontrolled charge of such a batterie makes it more of a bomb than an energy reservoir which is why there are strict regulations "TÜV" for example as well as there is no such a thing like a brut force charged Li-ION battery pack. this just in additon to the above mentioned for better understanding
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 12:43:33 AM by magnamentis »
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Lurk

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4660 on: July 07, 2018, 06:52:09 AM »

/////////
Also, don' give up your fossil fuel vehicles. We got two sweet, long enduring Hyundai Elantras plus a good Accent.

Each half the price of a new tesla and twice as reliable. :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4661 on: July 09, 2018, 04:03:05 AM »
Daimler Halts Supplies of Some Truck Engines on Emission Issues
• Engine type could exceed emission limits under some conditions
• Diesel engine currently only sold in non-Europe export markets
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-07-08/daimler-halts-supplies-of-some-truck-engines-on-emission-issues

Just wait for the Tesla Semi truck, starting production next year? ;)
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4662 on: July 09, 2018, 04:21:22 AM »
Oh.  Dear.
But this does explain why, after flying auto journalists to Portugal to test drive the iPace, Jaguar did not talk about, or demonstrate, charging at all! (Source:  Electrek) 

Quote
Shocked and sad to find out the Jaguar iPace is singlephase AC charging only. Means that at 3x16A type-2 charger, as typically found at hotel and restaurants, it needs 24 (!) hours for a full charge. This “Teslakiller” just killed itself. Jaguar, please try harder!
https://twitter.com/gerardfianen/status/1015982585007280128

Quote
I-PACE isn't even on anyone's radar:
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1016038089674903555
Chart below: internet searches, comparing iPace, Model X, and Model 3.
And searches in Norway, where there are supposed to be thousands of reservations?

Reservations….
Quote
“likely made by its network of dealers” or possibly they’re talking about the 20,000 that Waymo has promised to buy in the next few years.
https://twitter.com/_jameshatfield_/status/1016053248992727041

Another sad candidate for the TeslaKillerCemetery?  ;)
Quote
Maybe we should ask @elonmusk if he can donate a bit of land in the desert at Gigafactory 1 as we will be running out of room very soon at #TeslaKillerCemetery 1. We need to build a second Cemetery. Land only, no tents needed.
https://twitter.com/stevehamel16/status/1016095127620718592
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jacksmith4tx

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4663 on: July 09, 2018, 05:03:46 AM »
RE: Daimler Halts Supplies of Some Truck Engines on Emission Issues

Don't worry, we got this.

https://www.vox.com/2018/7/8/17544380/scott-pruitt-epa-truck-pollution-glider-kit-loophole
"Former Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Scott Pruitt managed to fire a Parthian shot on his final day in office when he cemented a massive loophole for some of the dirtiest, most polluting trucks on the road, allowing manufacturers to build even more them...

EPA’s tests showed that even shiny new glider trucks can spew upward of 55 times the amount of pollution of trucks that use the current generation of pollution controls. Though they make up a tiny fraction of the overall trucking fleet, the EPA estimated that if current trends hold, gliders would account for half of all nitrogen oxide pollution from trucks by 2030. The American Lung Association described the trucks as “super polluting.”...



    The Obama EPA estimated that the rule’s requirement that gliders use modern engines in 2018 alone would have prevented between 350 and 1,600 premature deaths over the lifetime of the vehicles.

... left unchecked, refurbished trucks would emit more per year than all vehicles affected by the Volkswagen AG emissions-cheating scandal would have spewed by 2025, according to an analysis by the nonprofit Union of Concerned Scientists."


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Sleepy

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4664 on: July 09, 2018, 08:07:40 AM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?
Pig out on oatmeal. Mine will run all day after that. :)
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4665 on: July 09, 2018, 04:36:27 PM »
What's the best way to treat batteries?

With love and respect, of course!
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4666 on: July 09, 2018, 04:45:06 PM »
Tesla can raise prices, because demand exceeds supply.  But: ”Ford Motor Co (F.N) said on Thursday it would not hike prices on its imported cars for now, including those on higher-margin luxury Lincoln models, crimping its profit margins on cars imported to China.”

Tesla raises car prices in China: Electrek
Quote
Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has raised prices on its Model X and S cars by over $20,000 in China, automotive news website Electrek reported on Monday, making it one of the first U.S. carmakers to hike prices in the wake of rising trade tensions.

China slapped retaliatory tariffs on U.S. car imports in response to President Donald Trump's move to impose tariffs on $34 billion worth of Chinese goods. ...
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1JZ1AK



Is this the long-awaited “Tesla factory in China” announcement?

Tesla's Musk to Visit Shanghai for Event With Government
Quote
Tesla Inc.’s Elon Musk is due to be in Shanghai at an event with the government on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the plans, as the U.S.-China trade war upends the world’s largest market for electric vehicles.

The chief executive officer will also visit Beijing on Wednesday and Thursday, said one of the people, who asked not to be identified because the information isn’t public. While details of the trip weren’t immediately available, Tesla has been working on setting up a production facility in China for more than a year.
...
In November, Musk said Tesla was about three years away from starting production in the world’s biggest auto market. The factory will make a couple hundred thousand vehicles a year for buyers in China and potentially other parts of Asia, he said at the time.

Tesla probably will make the Model 3 and upcoming Model Y crossover in China and won’t build the bigger and pricier Model S or Model X there, Musk said then. In June, he told shareholders that the company may announce more details as soon as this month about plans to build a car, battery-pack and powertrain plant in Shanghai.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/companies/teslas-musk-to-visit-shanghai-for-event-with-government/ar-AAzNkqq
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Shared Humanity

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4667 on: July 09, 2018, 08:21:09 PM »
Oh.  Dear.

Another sad candidate for the TeslaKillerCemetery?  ;)


You do realize that the failures of other companies to bring quality EV products to market only further delays the replacement of the 1.3 billion ICE vehicles on the planet? Seems a poor story to celebrate, however mildly.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4668 on: July 09, 2018, 09:54:44 PM »
Oh.  Dear.

Another sad candidate for the TeslaKillerCemetery?  ;)


You do realize that the failures of other companies to bring quality EV products to market only further delays the replacement of the 1.3 billion ICE vehicles on the planet? Seems a poor story to celebrate, however mildly.
...

Exactly!  Some people think that Jaguar is purposely creating a poor-quality EV to “prove” that ICE cars are better. 
Quote
I-PACE only perpetuates the nonsense that electric cars don't have enough range, they charge too slowly, their batteries degrade quickly, etc. It's almost as if Jag created this car to push that nonsensical rhetoric.
https://twitter.com/valueanalyst1/status/1016329193968357381

Quote
It makes sense in the big picture. Dealer shows I-pace next to e-pace $25k cheaper and asks how much gas can you buy for $25k.
https://twitter.com/mr_calico/status/1016104683465629696

Using the moniker “Tesla-killer” for announced EV models to predict the demise of Tesla and its quality EVs only serves to embolden those who wish to see Tesla fail.  It’s clear from sales data that customers are avoiding EVs that don’t meet their expectations (LEAF, Bolt).  Highlighting “Tesla-killer” failures makes it clear what is needed to make EVs that will succeed.  And confirms that Tesla is indeed on the right track.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4669 on: July 09, 2018, 09:58:15 PM »
Japanese automaker Nissan says it found emissions and fuel economy data had been falsified at most of its factories in Japan.
Quote
Nissan said data had been deliberately "altered" although the company did not say how many cars had been affected.

The company, which makes the Leaf electric vehicle, uncovered the issues during voluntary testing after its inspection process was deemed faulty by the government.

In a statement, Nissan said it found "exhaust emissions and fuel economy tests that deviated from the prescribed testing environment" and inspection reports were created "based on altered measurement values." ...
https://news.sky.com/story/nissan-admits-emissions-data-falsified-at-plants-in-japan-11430857
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4670 on: July 09, 2018, 10:03:13 PM »
New homes in suburban England would need to be fitted with electric car charging points under a government proposal to cut emissions.
Quote
Ministers also want new street lights to come with charge points wherever there's on-street parking.
Details of a sales ban on new conventional petrol and diesel cars by 2040 are also expected to be set out.
The strategy comes at a time when the government is facing criticism for failing to reduce carbon emissions.
The government's target is to reduce the UK's greenhouse gas emissions by at least 80% of 1990 levels by 2050.
The proposals, announced by Transport Secretary Chris Grayling, aim to make it easier to recharge an electric car rather than refuel petrol or diesel vehicles.
They include:
• The need to assess if new homes and offices should be required to install charging points as standard
• New street lighting columns with on-street parking to have charging points in appropriate locations
• More money being allocated to fund charging infrastructure.
Mr Grayling said the proposed measures would mean the UK having "one of the most comprehensive support packages for zero-emission vehicles in the world". ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44759150
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TerryM

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4671 on: July 10, 2018, 12:13:07 AM »
Here in the formerly Liberal Province of Ontario we have killed our generous $14,000 EV Incentive Program just as Tesla was pushing Mod 3s sales north to avoid the 200,000 sold in the US cap on the American EV incentive plan.


EV's signed sealed and delivered prior to July 3 received the rebate. Those sold today don't get a cent - on the upside I may be saving up to 4.3 cents/liter on my next gasoline purchase!


Doug Ford's Ontario, where do we go from here?
Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4672 on: July 10, 2018, 01:11:02 AM »
Tesla is opening Model 3 online configurator to everyone — in the U.S. and Canada  ;) ;D — and skipping the $1,000 reservation step.
Quote
After two years of Model 3 reservations, Electrek has learned that Tesla plans to open the Model 3 Online Design Studio this week to let anyone order a car in the US and Canada – bypassing the reservation process.

Last month, Tesla updated the Model 3 online configurator with new pricing and options.

At the same time, it invited all reservation holders in North America to place an order for all configurations except for the standard battery pack, which is still not in production.

Now that everyone in North America has access to the design studio with a reservation, which requires a $1,000 deposit, Tesla is skipping that part of the process and opening the Model 3 design studio to everyone without having to place a reservation first. ...
https://electrek.co/2018/07/09/tesla-model-3-online-configurator-everyone/

Anecdotal reports and polls suggest that on average, for every Model 3 delivered, a friend, neighbor or family member given a test drive orders another.  Last report was that reservations were at 420,000, even after 28,000 deliveries.

Model 3s are finally being delivered to all Tesla stores, to be used for test drives.  But still no advertising, except word-of-mouth.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4673 on: July 10, 2018, 01:36:29 PM »
“Just in.  [Tesla] Shanghai factory announced. Target 500k cars a year. Biggest foreign investment in manufacturing ever”
https://twitter.com/kelvinyang7/status/1016639121614430208

More info soon....

Edit:
Tesla to build its Gigafactory in Shanghai with capacity to produce 500,000 cars a year
Quote
Tesla will set up an assembly in Shanghai with the capacity to produce 500,000 electric vehicles every year, establishing its first beach head outside the United States in the world’s largest vehicle market amid a simmering trade war between the US and China.

The US company today signed an agreement with the Shanghai government to set up its Gigafactory 3 in Lingang New City.

The Chinese government announced in April that that it would scrap the 50 per cent foreign ownership requirements on new-energy vehicles, following President Xi Jinping’s pledge to further open up the car-making sector to overseas investors.

The liberalisations were expected to pave the way for global companies such as Tesla to set up their own production bases in the world’s largest car market.

Tesla’s co-founder and chief executive Elon Musk was in Shanghai on Tuesday, meeting local government officials including Shanghai Mayor Ying Yong, a governmental source familiar with the matter said.
https://m.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2154674/tesla-build-its-gigafactory-shanghai-capacity-produce-500000-cars


And here’s Electrek’s initial article:  https://electrek.co/2018/07/10/tesla-gigafactory-3-china-report/
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 02:23:01 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4674 on: July 10, 2018, 04:11:05 PM »
A few more details on the Tesla China factory (“Gigafactory 3”):
Quote
We expect construction to begin in the near future after we get all the necessary approvals and permits. From there, it will take roughly two years until we start producing vehicles and then another two to three years before the factory is fully ramped up to produce around 500,000 vehicles per year for Chinese customers. Tesla is deeply committed to the Chinese market, and we look forward to building even more cars for our customers here.

Today’s announcement will not impact our U.S. manufacturing operations, which continue to grow.”
Quote
“Shanghai will be the location for the first Gigafactory outside the United States. It will be a state-of-the-art vehicle factory and a role model for sustainability. We hope it will be completed very soon. We’ve been impressed by the beauty and energy of Shanghai and we want our factory to add to that.”
https://electrek.co/2018/07/10/tesla-gigafactory-3-china-official-production/


Reuters notes:
“The Shanghai government made the announcement on its official WeChat account which showed a picture of Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk shaking hands with Shanghai Mayor Ying Yong.”
https://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idINKBN1K01QB 

Edit: added sustainability paragraph.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 04:20:34 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4675 on: July 10, 2018, 07:07:37 PM »
At last: an electric Mini!

BMW signs deal to make electric Mini in new factory in China
Quote
Last year, BMW unveiled an electric Mini concept in preparation for the production version and to tease us even more, the German automaker unveiled an all-electric version of the classic Mini a few months ago.

The production version of the electric vehicle is expected to come rolling off the production line at the brand’s main plant in Oxford next year, but now BMW adds another manufacturing facility to the electric Mini program through a new joint-venture in China.

The BMW Group and the Chinese manufacturer Great Wall Motor today signed an agreement to produce Mini electric vehicles through a new 50:50 joint venture based in China.

A “new state-of-the-art production facility” through the joint-venture is planned in Jiangsu Province.

Harald Krüger, Chairman of the Board of Management of BMW AG, commented on the project during the signing ceremony:

Today’s signing represents a new level of cooperation between China and Germany. This strategic partnership is a clear win-win for the BMW Group and Great Wall Motor, enabling us to contribute to China’s ambitious plans to ramp-up new energy vehicles and reduce emissions in the mobility sector,

They didn’t elaborate on a timeline for the factory or a production capacity.

The news follows BMW’s announcement yesterday that the BMW iX3, the automaker’s next electric vehicle after the electric Mini, will be produced in China and exported to other markets.
https://electrek.co/2018/07/10/bmw-build-electric-mini-factory-china/
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4676 on: July 10, 2018, 08:03:47 PM »
Nice-looking bus.  Let’s hope the next version is designed from the ground up to be an EV, and takes the batteries off the roof.

Mercedes‑Benz unveils new all-electric eCitaro bus, announces upcoming solid-state batteries
https://electrek.co/2018/07/10/mercedes‑benz-new-all-electric-ecitaro-bus/
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« Reply #4677 on: July 11, 2018, 10:09:28 AM »
At last: an electric Mini!

How dare you, this is Sacrilege! Have you no decency?



First 9 past the post after 500 miles were all Mini Cooper S
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4678 on: July 11, 2018, 04:03:37 PM »
Women will drive transition to electric cars, study finds
Quote
More focused marketing of electric cars to women could be more effective in creating the required revolution away from more polluting vehicles than universal government intervention, a new study has said.

Highly educated women are an untapped but potentially lucrative market for electric vehicle sales because they have greater environmental and fuel efficiency awareness than men, says a new study by researchers at the University of Sussex and Aarhus University in Denmark.

The research also recommends the newly retired be targeted for electric vehicle promotion, even though they as a group have less interest in more environmentally friendly vehicles. Pensioners have high car ownership, drive short distances, have high budgets for car purchases and are less interested in design - all characteristics that could make them ideal electric vehicle owners. ...
https://theecologist.org/2018/jul/05/women-will-drive-transition-electric-cars-study-finds


“Women rank ease of operation, safety, running costs and environmental impact - making electric vehicles a better fit for their specification.”

“This is false. My wife won’t drive my model 3 because people keep asking her about it.”
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1017032745317519360

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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4679 on: July 11, 2018, 04:08:33 PM »
Siemens CEO Warns of Dire Consequences If German Carmakers Fail
Quote
Siemens AG Chief Executive Officer Joe Kaeser has a stark warning to Germany’s carmakers: manage the electric-vehicle revolution shaking up the industry, or face violent consequences that inevitably come with mass unemployment.

“We’ll still have cars in the streets, but they won’t be electric, they’ll be burning,” Kaeser told reporters late Monday. “The success of Germany depends on this one industry.” ...
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-07-10/siemens-ceo-warns-of-burning-fallout-if-german-carmakers-fail
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4680 on: July 11, 2018, 04:10:02 PM »
Hackers Steal 600 Gallons of Fuel in Detroit
A pump was hacked to just give it away and block shutoff attempts.
http://www.thedrive.com/news/22048/hackers-steal-600-gallons-of-fuel-in-detroit


Your Dashboard Display Is Going to Kill You
A new study by AAA suggests that the in-car chaos created by the console screens and smart phones are fundamentally unsafe.
http://www.thedrive.com/tech/22034/your-dashboard-display-is-going-to-kill-you
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4681 on: July 11, 2018, 04:16:45 PM »
Tesla Model 3 vs. ICE and EV competition (monthly U.S. sales)

BMW 3/4 series down 27% YOY

Numbers from gcbc, carsalesbase, insideevs.

https://twitter.com/groggytbear/status/1016489641980186624


Edit:   
Tesla On Track To Pass Porsche In Annual Vehicle Sales In 2018
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/07/11/tesla-on-track-to-pass-porsche-in-annual-vehicle-sales-in-2018/
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 04:23:24 PM by Sigmetnow »
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Sigmetnow

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« Reply #4682 on: July 12, 2018, 01:57:48 PM »
   Miguel Peralvo (@LordAstinus)
7/12/18, 4:17 AM
Quote
Tesla hit 200k US mark in Q3
$7,500 tax credit until Dec18, then $3,750 until Jun19, then $1,875 until Dec19.

https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives

$TSLA #tesla so one less FUD to debunk.
https://twitter.com/lordastinus/status/1017322059486171136
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crandles

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« Reply #4683 on: July 12, 2018, 05:25:21 PM »
Half of young people in the UK would like to own an electric car – compared with just a quarter of their parents, a survey suggests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-44798135

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« Reply #4684 on: July 12, 2018, 07:53:38 PM »
UN:  ‘Zero Emission Vehicle Challenge’ Launched
Quote
UN Climate Change News, 12 July 2018 - Ahead of the Global Climate Action Summit in San Francisco in September, co-chaired by the UN’s top climate change official Patricia Espinosa, states, regions, cities and international businesses groups and other NGOs are urging the rapid adoption of electric vehicles around the world to decarbonize the transport sector.

A new ‘Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) Challenge’ has been launched by The Climate Group and C40 Cities to bring global purchasing power for electric and other clean vehicles together. 
...
The zero emissions leaders are urging the global auto industry to commit to accelerating the manufacture of electric vehicles and step up production to satisfy the growing demand. This marks the first time some of the world’s largest states, regions, cities and businesses are uniting to show the global auto industry the full scale of demand that already exists for electric vehicles. The initiative brings together existing world leading programs, which up to now have been focused on separate sectors, to amplify their collective purchasing power and influence on the market.
https://unfccc.int/news/zero-emission-vehicle-challenge-launched
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« Reply #4685 on: July 13, 2018, 08:45:56 AM »
Parliament committees fail to push for the necessary cuts in car emissions

https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/parliament-committees-fail-push-necessary-cuts-car-emissions

Quote
MEPs of the European Parliament's transport committee today voted in favour of a non-binding opinion supporting the weak Commission proposal on emissions cuts from new cars and vans. The industry committee of the Parliament failed to reach an agreement on their opinion. NGO Transport & Environment (T&E) regrets the votes as the Commission proposal will undermine Europe’s chances to meet Paris climate goals and deteriorate the competitiveness of the auto industry.

The draft law, published by the Commission in November 2017, requires CO2 emissions from new cars to fall by just 30% between 2021 and 2030 - with an intermediate target of 15% for 2025.

Julia Poliscanova, clean vehicles manager at T&E, said: “Today’s MEPs opinion means that the industry can keep selling diesel cars in Europe while developing and manufacturing the cars of the future elsewhere. European automakers are investing seven times more in electrification in China than in Europe. This is the real risk to European jobs and competitiveness. The ball is now in the leading environment committee’s court. MEPs should correct the course and set ambitious goals that will reduce drivers’ fuel bills, cut emissions and ensure investment in the technologies of the future happens in Europe.”

The lead environment committee of the European Parliament is expected to vote on its report on 10 September, after which the regulation will go to plenary in early October.
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« Reply #4686 on: July 13, 2018, 01:27:36 PM »
Tesla update :
Quote
I just had another coworker tell me he’s ordering a Model 3. AWD. Tesla might sell more Model 3s in 2019 than Honda sells Civics.
https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1017500212347236354
——-
Most of my referrals (14 so far this round) began with offering a test drive.
——-
Friend was going to buy a Porsche. Told him to give Tesla the opportunity to change his mind by test driving one. He did, next day placed his Tesla order. $tsla $tslaq
——-
Same with my neighbor who was shopping for a nice Mercedes until he test drove my model 3. Put in reservation and configured his P3D already. He owes me a test drive once he takes delivery :-)
——-

[White interior, sport wheels…]
Quote
These sure look like the ~100 performance #Model3 that $TSLA says were built for test drives. Question is when will they move off the lot into stores? Or have they already and these are leftovers? Images are from July 10th.
https://twitter.com/rsmetrics/status/1017444278283350017


Elon Musk says Tesla will be out of ‘production hell’ in a month as they start ramping up to 10,000 Model 3s per week | Electrek
https://electrek.co/2018/07/12/elon-musk-tesla-production-model/


Tesla’s timeline for Gigafactory 3 in China is actually pretty conservative
Quote
Musk’s statement on Twitter about China’s advanced infrastructure is reflected by feats of construction from the country’s workforce. Earlier this year, 1,500 workers in Eastern China set up a track replacement for a train station in just 8.5 hours. A time-lapse video of the event became viral, mainly due to the project having been conducted with near-surgical precision. Back in 2015, China also made headlines for its rapid construction after Broad Sustainable Building, a prefab construction firm in the Hunan province, managed to complete a 57-story skyscraper in just 19 days using a modular building method.  

Also, if Tesla’s Nevada Gigafactory is any indication, the entire facility does not need to be completed before it can start its operations. Tesla started brush clearing and grading the land for Gigafactory 1 in the summer of 2014, and as of date, the expansive battery factory is still less than 30% complete. Despite this, the facility has already stepped up to provide enough battery packs to support the ongoing ramp for the Model 3, which recently managed to exceed a rate of 5,000 vehicles per week.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-china-construction-timeline/
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« Reply #4687 on: July 13, 2018, 03:28:34 PM »
Quote
Tesla update :

Quote
Quote

I just had another coworker tell me he’s ordering a Model 3. AWD. Tesla might sell more Model 3s in 2019 than Honda sells Civics.
https://twitter.com/icannot_enough/status/1017500212347236354
——-
Most of my referrals (14 so far this round) began with offering a test drive.
——-
Friend was going to buy a Porsche. Told him to give Tesla the opportunity to change his mind by test driving one. He did, next day placed his Tesla order. $tsla $tslaq
——-
Same with my neighbor who was shopping for a nice Mercedes until he test drove my model 3. Put in reservation and configured his P3D already. He owes me a test drive once he takes delivery :-)
——-

That's how it all starts out.  Somebody in the neighborhood gets one ..... other people look at it and think:

"You mean to tell me that I can buy one of these Tesla's for the same or less than the Porsche I was looking at ..... and I'll spend less than 20% of what I would spend to RUN my Porsche/BMW/Mercedes, and I'll spend less than 20% to maintain my Porsche?  OK .... my order for a new Tesla is in."

And that is why we are now reaching the juncture ..... as more and more people see and drive "these new things" ...... that some people who may be looking to buy a new car, but haven't seen the costs drop down enough OR haven't seen one in a style they like ..... will put off buying an ICE car for a year or two so they can wait and buy an EV."

In 2 - 3 years its going to get tougher and tougher to sell ICE cars in any dealership that has EV's.  REALLY TOUGH.  And by 2025 ..... nigh impossible  By 2023 "they" will have invaded the "entry level" ..... and then it will be all over.

SALESMAN:  "But Bob ..... you only have to pay 10% more for this ICE car AND you get the obligation to pay 80% more to run it AND 80% more to maintain it.  Doesn't that sound like a great deal for this ICE car Bob?  Bob.....where did you go Bob....."

And as an ADDED INCENTIVE ..... an ICE car that anyone buys after 2023 will be ALMOST WORTHLESS AFTER 2025.... because NOBODY WILL PAY FOR IT AFTER 2025.  So when "Bob" gets his act together and finally goes to trade in his 2023 ICE for an EV in 2027 .... he will have ZERO as a trade in.  LITERALLY .... because everyone on the planet will be dumping their ICE vehicles.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 04:04:18 PM by Buddy »
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Lurk

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« Reply #4688 on: July 14, 2018, 07:14:42 AM »
"and I'll spend less than 20% of what I would spend to RUN my Porsche/BMW/Mercedes"

Aah yes, Tesla Model 3 the common man's Model-T of the 21st century :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 01:59:00 PM by ASILurker »
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Shared Humanity

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« Reply #4689 on: July 14, 2018, 05:25:36 PM »
In 2 - 3 years its going to get tougher and tougher to sell ICE cars in any dealership that has EV's.  REALLY TOUGH.  And by 2025 ..... nigh impossible  By 2023 "they" will have invaded the "entry level" ..... and then it will be all over.

In 2023, there will be approximately 100 million cars and light commercial vehicles sold worldwide and at least 60 million of them will be ICE vehicles.

an ICE car that anyone buys after 2023 will be ALMOST WORTHLESS AFTER 2025.... because NOBODY WILL PAY FOR IT AFTER 2025.  So when "Bob" gets his act together and finally goes to trade in his 2023 ICE for an EV in 2027 .... he will have ZERO as a trade in.  LITERALLY .... because everyone on the planet will be dumping their ICE vehicles.

A consumer who buys a new ICE vehicle on 2023 or 2025 will do exactly what he has done with almost every new car he has purchased. He will drive it until the cost of operation suggests he should buy a new one. The average age of a car on the road in the U.S. is 11.6 years.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20161122/RETAIL05/161129973/average-age-of-vehicles-on-road-hits-11.6-years

The market for new cars is very dependent on the price of used cars. As the quantity of used cars on the market climbs, prices decline rapidly and persons in the market are far more likely to buy a used car. Bob will look at the $4000 used mid-sized ICE vehicle and compare it to the $47,000 EV and do what many will do. He'll buy the used car. $43,000 will buy a lot of gas.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 05:36:19 PM by Shared Humanity »

Shared Humanity

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« Reply #4690 on: July 14, 2018, 05:34:20 PM »
Market forces will not cause the demise of the market for new ICE vehicles before 2030 nor the market for used ICE vehicles before 2040. The only thing that will drive ICE vehicles off the planet faster is if governments legislate them out of existence. This can be done by...

1. Put in place taxes on gasoline that triple or quadruple the cost of a gallon of gas.
2. Place a luxury tax on all ICE vehicles so as to double the price of a new ICE vehicle.
3. Legislate a large credit for owners of used ICE vehicles who trade them in for EV's and send these ICE vehicles to be scrapped.

This is not an all inclusive list but the effect of each of these is the same. They serve to increase the operating cost of an ICE vehicle when compared to an EV.

Shared Humanity

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« Reply #4691 on: July 14, 2018, 05:38:57 PM »
"You mean to tell me that I can buy one of these Tesla's for the same or less than the Porsche I was looking at ..... and I'll spend less than 20% of what I would spend to RUN my Porsche/BMW/Mercedes, and I'll spend less than 20% to maintain my Porsche?  OK .... my order for a new Tesla is in."

I am not now, nor will I ever be in the market for a Porsche or Mercedes. At least 90% of car buyers on the planet are in the exact same position.

It would be interesting to see a show of hands from individuals here to understand who is or is not in the market for such a car.

Shared Humanity

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« Reply #4692 on: July 14, 2018, 06:07:54 PM »
New car sales in the U.S. totaled 17.25 million in 2017 with trucks and SUV's accounting for 2/3's of the total.

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/u-s-auto-sales-totaled-17-25-million-calendar-2017/

And the average sales price of these vehicles was $33,560.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/04/new-car-transaction-price-3-kbb-kelley-blue-book/26690191/

Why are half of the new car buyers in the U.S. buying cars for less than $33,000? Because that is what they can afford.

The average sale price of a used car in the U.S. is $19,000.

https://dealers.edmunds.com/static/assets/articles/2017_Feb_Used_Market_Report.pdf

And 2017 used car sales in the US totaled 39.3 million.

https://www.coxautoinc.com/news/cox-automotive-2018-used-car-market-report-outlook-forecast-higher-used-vehicle-sales-for-2018-and-a-decline-in-new-car-sales/

So why do used car sales represent 70% of the market in the U.S.? Because many consumers are priced out of the new car market.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 06:16:49 PM by Shared Humanity »

jacksmith4tx

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« Reply #4693 on: July 14, 2018, 06:09:51 PM »
Quote
I am not now, nor will I ever be in the market for a Porsche or Mercedes. At least 90% of car buyers on the planet are in the exact same position.

It would be interesting to see a show of hands from individuals here to understand who is or is not in the market for such a car.

When my Volt wears out I will definitely buy a EV. I'm hoping that's at least 11 years away  ;D.
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« Reply #4694 on: July 14, 2018, 06:36:58 PM »
In 2014, there were 253 million vehicles on the road in the U.S. with an average age of 11.4 years.  The total number of vehicles scrapped per year varies between 11 million and 14 million.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ihs-automotive-average-age-car-20140609-story.html

Of these 253 million vehicles, less than 1 million were EV's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

If, in 2019, all new vehicle sales were EV's, it would take 18 years for all of the ICE vehicles to be off the road. Unfortunately, new car sales in 2019 are projected to be around 18 million vehicles and the vast majority of them will be ICE vehicles. Why do I say this?

2017 EV sales in the U.S. hit a new all time high of 200k vehicles.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/01/2017-was-the-best-year-ever-for-electric-vehicle-sales-in-the-us/

The total number Of ICE vehicles on the road in the U.S. will continue to climb as will the demand for gas.

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« Reply #4695 on: July 14, 2018, 06:46:56 PM »
So, why do I insist on looking at the hard facts regarding the transportation industry? Am I trying to depress myself and others here?

While these numbers can be depressing, if we are ever going to develop the political will to tackle the problem and in the time frame required to avoid catastrophic climate change, we need to understand the nature of the problem. If we are to have a zero emissions or near zero emissions transportation industry by 2040, the manufacture of ICE vehicles must cease completely in the next few years. Our current transition to EV's is woefully inadequate and relying on the market to get where we need to be is going to kill us.

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« Reply #4696 on: July 14, 2018, 06:52:45 PM »
Quote
And the average sales price of these vehicles was $33,560.

The thing to keep in mind with the Model 3 is that it is being purchased not only by people who would buy a $35,000 car.  Many people waiting in line at Tesla stores in 2016 to make a reservation said that this would be the most expensive car they’ve ever purchased.  Others, as we see above, were in the market for a car much more expensive than $35k, but chose the Model 3 over other well-known, “status” car brands — because they really liked the car.

When the iPhone first came out, the common retort was, “No one will pay $400 for a smart phone.”  EVs, with their lower cost of ownership and longer potential lifespan, will up-end traditional car sales habits.  Adoption will happen much more quickly than historical trends would suggest.
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« Reply #4697 on: July 14, 2018, 06:56:51 PM »
Adoption will happen much more quickly than historical trends would suggest.

Would you please look at industry statistics so we can have a meaningful discussion and not be talking past each other?

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« Reply #4698 on: July 14, 2018, 07:00:44 PM »
A Tesla production associate tweeted:
7/13/18, 3:47 AM
Over 2000 cars in 2 days, and were not slammed. Ez money.
https://twitter.com/vickisalvador/status/1017676975702302720

Those cars will be delivered in 2-3 weeks, but Tesla doesn't have to pay for the parts for another 60-90 days….

Tesla accelerates Model 3 delivery timelines on new orders
Quote
Just a few weeks after updating the delivery timelines of all Model 3 versions available to order, Tesla is updating them again to accelerate deliveries for new orders.

Some Model 3 buyers could even get their car in a month.
https://electrek.co/2018/07/14/tesla-model-3-delivery-timelines-new-orders/


Wake up old school US auto manufacturers! @Tesla sold 200,000 EVs in America while you were asleep! Most of you will not survive the EV revolution! @Tesla did this despite every roadblock from dealerships and no ability to directly sell in some states.
https://twitter.com/28delayslater/status/1017387573566754817


Tom Randall interviews Elon Musk:
The Model 3 is:  ‘The Last Bet-the-Company Situation’: Q&A With Elon Musk
Quote
TR:  Then why not reach out? Detroit was shouting, “That’s not going to work.”
EM:  Well, when have they not said that? When was the last time they said it would work? Can you recall at any point in the history of Tesla where they said it would work? Is there like some point I didn't notice? Because from my perspective, for the last 15 years that is all they have said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-07-13/-the-last-bet-the-company-situation-q-amp-a-with-elon-musk



Chinese mainstream media massively report Tesla CEO @elonmusk signing ceremony with Shanghai Mayor Ying Yong. Shanghai Municipal Party Committee Secretary Li Qiang mentioned will fully support @Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory during the meeting. $TSLA Video….

-@elonmusk mention The Tesla Shanghai Gigafactory is the first super factory outside the US and will be the most advanced.
https://twitter.com/vincent13031925/status/1018133348177154048


Another Tesla production associate:
Quote
Every time I see an article like, “Tesla Employees Worked to the Bone, Treated Unfairly” and it’s all written because one person bitched online, I want to find that person and tell them to toughen up or quit. I remember one of the managers explicitly saying, day one of training…
…to expect to work 5 to 7 days a week 12 hours a day, and if that if you can’t handle that, then work somewhere else. It’s not like you aren’t compensated. OT, time and a half, double time... by day 6 you’re making at least 40 bucks an hour.
    If you bitch and complain ever single day, there’s an easy solution. Find another job. Those of us who work hard to push these cars out, don’t need lazy people like you on the line bringing the rest of us down. Yeah, it ducks being on your feet 12 hours a day, but it’s a job…
…and it pays the bills, and ever one of us in the factory is changing the world each car we ship. People love our cars and they love what we do and that should make each and every one of us proud to work here. Work hard, shut up, or get out. That simple. You hate…
…the hours and the money? Cool then. The Mcdonald across the street is always hiring.

End rant.
https://twitter.com/jotakusan/status/1018035274998210561
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

jacksmith4tx

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Re: Cars, cars and more cars. And trucks, and....
« Reply #4699 on: July 14, 2018, 07:18:21 PM »
Shared Humanity,
I appreciate your pragmatic view. I struggle with the two dominate forces that will decide how humanity will respond to climate change. On one hand there is the insightful analysis of Daniel Kahneman (author of Thinking Fast and Slow) verses the exponential speed of technology to solve the the very problems it creates.

My favorite scenario would be to use technology to reprogram human nature.
Full disclosure: I don't believe in free will either.
Science is a thought process, technology will change reality.