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Author Topic: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES  (Read 69205 times)


Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #101 on: August 20, 2014, 08:34:14 PM »

johnm33

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #102 on: August 24, 2014, 01:18:43 PM »
I'm not well informed enough on radiation issues to be any judge of the import of what's going on at Fukushima but i'm beggining to wonder how long we have left. http://optimalprediction.com/wp/  http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/weve-opened-gates-hell.html

Sebastian

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #103 on: August 24, 2014, 02:12:40 PM »
I'm not well informed enough on radiation issues to be any judge of the import of what's going on at Fukushima but i'm beggining to wonder how long we have left. http://optimalprediction.com/wp/  http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/weve-opened-gates-hell.html

Why don't you let the scientists who did the actual research be the judges? Clicking on the first link in your "gates-of-hell"link several papers about Cs levels in Europe are mentioned. From the summaries of these papers:
Finally, a dose assessment for these two areas showed clearly that the detected activities in all environmental samples were far below levels of concern.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10967-013-2709-2
The influence of Fukushima accident to the Kolartic environment was observable but insignificant and it has no effects on human health or to the state of the environment.

http://www.ceepra.eu/fs/files/72/CEEPRA_Fukushima_report.pdf

johnm33

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #104 on: August 26, 2014, 01:10:07 AM »
Sebastian I was thinking more about the 3 cores which breached not just the containment vessels but the containment buildings and which are spewing out not just the most toxic heavy metals but a coctail of fission products into the atmosphere and the Pacific.
. "Chris Harris, former licensed Senior Reactor Operator & engineer, Aug 21, 2014 (at 24:00 in): NHK just [broadcasted] that many studies are showing… that multiple cores — parts of it, or some, or even most of it — had been ejected. We thought that too. Once you breach containment, that was one of my big concerns — where did the core go after an explosion like? Whether it be steam or hydrogen explosion or a combination of both… it got ‘sneezed out’ all over the place. It’s totally – it’s a huge mess.

Marco Kaltofen, Nuclear Science and Engineering (pdf), presented at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, March 19, 2014: High Radioactivity Particles in Japanese House Dusts… The Fukushima Dai‐ichi accident released very high activity inhalable dust particles that travelled long distances… Airborne dusts can transport radioactive materials as isolated individual particles containing high concentrations of radioisotopes. Alpha and beta emissions related to fission wastes and dispersed fuel particles are hazardous when inhaled or ingested. Radioactively‐contaminated environmental dusts can accumulate in indoor spaces, potentially causing significant radiation exposures to humans via inhalation, dermal contact, and ingestion… a micron‐scaled particle [had] activity greater than 1.0 PBq kg [1 Quadrillion Bq/kg]. The par6cle was collected from a home in Nagoya, Japan. Nagoya is 460 km from the accident site… It contained both fission products and decay products of 238U… tellurium up to 48.0 %, cesium up to 15.6 %, rubidium up to 1.22 %, polonium up to 1.19 %, dysprosium up to 0.18 %, as well as trace amounts of Sn, lead, nickel, iron, and chromium… 226Ra, 134Cs, and 137Cs, 241Am, and 230Th [were] the most commonly detected gamma photon-emitting isotopes… about 25 % of dusts sampled [were] autoradiographically positive for hot particles… the majority of these hot particles were 10 um [micrometers] or less in size, meaning that they were potentially inhalable… Radioactively‐hot particles on the respirable size range were routinely detected, with one as far as 460 km [285 miles] from the release site.

Kaltofen (pdf): Radioisotopes in dusts released by Fukushima Daiichi units [include] Uranium and plutonium fuels and transuranics such as americium and neptunium… individual radioactive particles [in an] Ibaraki dust sample [include] Eu, Y, Zr, Th, Ce, Sr… in 1 to 15 um size range…

Kaltofen (pdf): The Japanese samples came from as far north as Sapporo in Hokkaido Prefecture and as far south as Tokyo, a range of 780 km. Fifty nine samples of dust from Japan were analyzed… Radioisotopes specific to the Fukushima Daiichi accidents, including Cs134, Cs137, and Co60 were detected in dust samples taken throughout Northern Japan, including areas more than 200 km outside of the accident exclusion zone. Cs134 was detected at all of the Japanese sites tested… Japanese samples… analyzed in the first month after the accident also contained I131 and Am241… Radioactive dust has become a ubiquitous part of life in northern Japan."
   
Published: August 25th, 2014 at 10:13 am ET
By ENENews
Or for instance
http://en.ria.ru/analysis/20140823/192281175/Physicists-Say-Fukushima-Reactors-Pose-Eternal-Threat-to.html

Laurent

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johnm33

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #106 on: September 23, 2014, 11:28:06 AM »
This just gets worse http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/09/22/28-proofs-west-coast-absolutely-fried-with-fukushima-radiation-part-i/
and from here http://enenews.com/govt-scientists-very-unusual-occurring-northeast-pacific-unprecedented-historical-record-extends-all-across-pacific-japan-dramatically-reduced-productivity-17000-square-kilometers-could-se "North Pacific Marine Science Organization (pdf), Summer 2014: In March 2014 there was something very unusual occurring in the Northeast (NE) Pacific that might have substantial consequences for biota in the Gulf of Alaska and southward into the subtropics… we see SST departures of 4.5 standard deviations… The anomaly field covers a large region of the N.E. Pacific… The authors of this article have never seen [such] deviations… Something as extraordinary as a 4.5-sigma deviation requires corroboration… Argo data verify the very large temperature departures… and similar large deviations in salinity… the event is primarily restricted to the upper 100 metres of the water… In most years, a winter region of high productivity is created by this Ekman transport… Without nutrients from the subarctic, the productivity of subtropical waters must decline… Between 30–40°N, surface chlorophyll dropped to 60% of the average values… weakened nutrient transport from the subarctic into the subtropics this past winter will dramatically reduce the productivity of the eastern subtropics over an area of ~17,000 km² [~6,500 miles²].

Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #107 on: September 23, 2014, 10:50:09 PM »

Laurent

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mati

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and so it goes

Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #110 on: October 28, 2014, 09:10:39 PM »
Japan edges back towards nuclear power with vote to restart reactors
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/28/japan-nuclear-power-reactors-satsumasendai-fukushima

johnm33

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2015, 11:05:25 PM »
Words fail me
 http://enenews.com/magazine-fukushima-catastrophe-changed-world-worst-nuclear-accident-history-like-having-chernobyls-poisoned-entire-landscapes-centuries-study-fukushima-overwhelms-peak-radioactivity-atmospheric-bom
http://enenews.com/doctor-removed-6-thyroids-recent-months-uss-reagan-sailors-exposed-fukushima-fallout-officer-sick-soldiers-everywhere-many-hospitals-san-diego-hawaii-dont-whats-going-video/comment-page-1#comments
from comments"ENENews
February 12, 2015 at 12:45 pm Log in to Reply   

http://www.msc.navy.mil/sealift/2011/May/japan.htm

The U.S. Navy sent 20 ships, 140 aircraft and 19,000 personnel to support Operation Tomodachi… Ships included those in the USS Ronald Reagan Carrier Strike Group and USS Essex Amphibious Ready Group. At the center of this support were seven MSC Naval Fleet Auxiliary Force ships and MSC-chartered high-speed vessel Westpac Express. The relief effort began March 13 when Reagan arrived off Sendai…

————-

Radiation dose 'estimates' were calculated for:


USNS Bridge
USNS Carl Brashear
USNS Matthew Perry
USNS Pecos
USNS Rappahannock
USNS Richard E. Byrd
USNS Safeguard
USS Blue Ridge
USS Chancellorsville
USS Cowpens
USS Curtis Wilbur
USS Essex
USS Fitzgerald
USS George Washington
USS Germantown
USS Harpers Ferry
USS John S. McCain
USS Lassen
USS McCampbell
USS Mustin
USS Preble
USS Ronald Reagan
USS Shiloh
USS Stethem
USS Tortuga

https://registry.csd.disa.mil/registryWeb/Registry/OperationTomodachi/DisplayEstimatedAreaDose"
http://enenews.com/japan-tv-failure-fukushima-cement-stopping-highly-contaminated-nuclear-waste-flowing-reactor-buildings-iaea-radioactive-releases-plant-ocean-challenging-issue-officials-dont-next-will-affect
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 11:41:23 PM by johnm33 »

silkman

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2015, 09:50:14 AM »
It's amazing how quickly you can put things to the back of your mind when there's so much going on in the world.

Fukushima remains a major threat and Tepco seems to be making little progress getting on top of it.

I was amazed when I went back to check on the Fukushima Diary website to find that there are now almost 6,000 workers involved in what seems to be a high tech but shambolic attempt to get things under control.

Is nuclear a viable part of a sensible approach to a transition to a low carbon economy? The UK government seems to think so and is willing to use French technology and Chinese finance to go down that road. Just building up more problems for my grandchildren' generation to solve, I fear.

http://fukushima-diary.com/2015/01/daily-number-o-fukushima-worker-rose-double-since-one-year-ago/


JimD

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2015, 05:33:05 PM »
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/23/national/strontium-90-levels-spike-alarmingly-at-fukushima-no-1-plant/#.VOtV2PnF-Cl

Fresh leak at Fukushima No. 1 highlights Tepco’s struggle to decommission plant

...Sensors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant have detected a fresh leak of highly radioactive water to the sea, the plant’s operator announced Sunday, highlighting continued difficulties in decommissioning the crippled atomic station.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the sensors, which were rigged to a gutter that drains rain and groundwater at the plant into a nearby bay, detected contamination levels up to 70 times greater than the already-high radioactive status seen on the plant grounds....


Reality bites.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

DavidR

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #114 on: March 20, 2015, 07:51:08 AM »
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/02/23/national/strontium-90-levels-spike-alarmingly-at-fukushima-no-1-plant/#.VOtV2PnF-Cl

Fresh leak at Fukushima No. 1 highlights Tepco’s struggle to decommission plant

...Sensors at the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant have detected a fresh leak of highly radioactive water to the sea, the plant’s operator announced Sunday, highlighting continued difficulties in decommissioning the crippled atomic station.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the sensors, which were rigged to a gutter that drains rain and groundwater at the plant into a nearby bay, detected contamination levels up to 70 times greater than the already-high radioactive status seen on the plant grounds....


Reality bites.

Putting this in perspective it  is equivalent  to  the normal dose of radioactivity we receive constantly  from within our own body.
"The amount of naturally-occurring potassium decay in humans is therefore less than 175 g × 31 Bq/g ≈ 5400 Bq of radioactive decays, constantly through the person's adult lifetime."

The radiation exposure from consuming a banana is approximately 1% of the average daily exposure to radiation, which is 100 banana equivalent doses (BED). The maximum permitted radiation leakage for a nuclear power plant is equivalent to 2,500 BED (250 μSv), while a chest CT scan delivers 70,000 BED (7 mSv). A lethal dose of radiation treatment is approximately 80,000,000 BED (8 Sv).

wili

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"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

JimD

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #116 on: March 20, 2015, 05:00:57 PM »
LOL  yup.  Those nuclear boys sure got a handle on credibility don't they.

Nearly all fuel in Fukushima reactor has melted, says TEPCO

...New tests show almost all of the fuel inside one of the Fukushima plant's reactors has melted, its operator said Thursday, the latest step in the clean up after Japan's worst ever nuclear crisis.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said the technology, which uses elementary particles called "muon" to create x-ray style images, gave the most concrete evidence yet the fuel had dropped to the bottom of the first reactor.....

TEPCO plans to eventually use robots to locate the fuel debris as part of the decommissioning process, which is expected to take three to four decades to complete....

They will never finish before events overtake them.

https://news.yahoo.com/nearly-fuel-fukushima-reactor-melted-says-tepco-152528950.html
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #117 on: March 20, 2015, 06:15:21 PM »
cleanup will take time.
some of that time is to let the melted fuel cool and radiation to reduce
20 years seems about right


http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/15/us/14-year-cleanup-at-three-mile-island-concludes.html
and so it goes

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #118 on: March 20, 2015, 06:17:28 PM »
btw i get a great chuckle from some of the posts here.
reminds me of the anit-vacers
posting wildly interesting news stories, rather than scientific facts :)
keep me entertained please
hehe
and so it goes

wili

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #119 on: March 21, 2015, 05:50:12 AM »
... btw i get a great chuckle from some  of the posts here

(which I will not specify so that everyone can feel equally insulted by, but so that I can deny insulting any particular poster)

reminds me of anti-vacers

(which should make you feel utterly ashamed for being so freakin' ignorant, even though I couldn't even manage to spell the term correctly)

posting wildly interesting news stories,

(leading all to wonder what the hell I mean by 'wildly interesting')

rather than scientific facts  :)

(I write in a post totally devoid of anything remotely resembling a scientific fact or even a link, oh, and with a happy face, so no one can accuse me of being mean, since...who can be mean when they add a nice little happy face??)

keep me entertained please
hehe

(I add, just in case you missed from the rest of the post how utterly stuck up, full of myself, and vapid I truly am.)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2015, 06:45:55 AM by wili »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

JimD

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #120 on: March 21, 2015, 06:46:07 PM »
btw i get a great chuckle from some of the posts here.
reminds me of the anit-vacers
posting wildly interesting news stories, rather than scientific facts :)
keep me entertained please
hehe

Your post is right in line with some discussion going on in the other topics

That is, people should understand that not all sciences are equal.  Some are more rigorous than others and we should trust them and be, understandably, more skeptical of the weaker ones.  This is supposed to be a rational and logical thing to do.

But of all the 'sciences' out there, the hard science of nuclear physics and its associated nuclear industry is the absolute poster child for being responsible for generating mistrust of science from the general public.  There is not another science which exceeds the mistakes, lies and distortions provided to the public as has been done by the nuclear industry over the last 70 years.  NO one in their right mind would trust them on anything they say.  In their case it is 'always' mistrust and verify, verify, verify.

I am scientifically educated and have read up on the issues of nuclear power far beyond the general public.  During my professional career I held the highest level clearances for nuclear secrets and worked for brief periods at a couple of the National Labs as well as the test site.  I have seen this industries mistakes, distortions and lies over and over again.  I do not trust anything the industry says as it is all wrapped up in hundreds of billions of dollars, corporate greed, the Defense Industry and National Security concerns.  Truth in such an environment is used as a last resort.

When you say foolish things like you did above it is guaranteed that you will have no credibility and will get no trust.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Shared Humanity

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Shared Humanity

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #122 on: March 23, 2015, 01:55:59 AM »
... btw i get a great chuckle from some  of the posts here

(which I will not specify so that everyone can feel equally insulted by, but so that I can deny insulting any particular poster)

reminds me of anti-vacers

(which should make you feel utterly ashamed for being so freakin' ignorant, even though I couldn't even manage to spell the term correctly)

posting wildly interesting news stories,

(leading all to wonder what the hell I mean by 'wildly interesting')

rather than scientific facts  :)

(I write in a post totally devoid of anything remotely resembling a scientific fact or even a link, oh, and with a happy face, so no one can accuse me of being mean, since...who can be mean when they add a nice little happy face??)

keep me entertained please
hehe

(I add, just in case you missed from the rest of the post how utterly stuck up, full of myself, and vapid I truly am.)

And thank you for every bit of this comment.

viddaloo

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #123 on: March 23, 2015, 02:26:23 AM »
Is nuclear a viable part of a sensible approach to a transition to a low carbon economy? The UK government seems to think so and is willing to use French technology and Chinese finance to go down that road. Just building up more problems for my grandchildren' generation to solve, I fear.

Absolutely, silkman. I've also read fears that if push comes to shove (and it will come to shove) and communities, grids etc are knocked out (viruses, storms, drougths etc etc) it will take at least half a decade to shut these ticking time–bombs down in a safe way. Meaning skilled people will have to be around, electricity needs to be around, water needs to be around, when maybe there is none. And if all of this isn't around, all hell breaks lose.

Question: Is there really no faster way to shut down a nuke power plant? What is the average minimum time it would take? WASF.
[]

wili

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #124 on: March 23, 2015, 04:05:30 PM »
Thanks, SH.

Now this:

http://truththeory.com/2015/03/22/fukushima-radiation-found-in-sample-of-green-tea-from-japan/

Fukushima Radiation Found In Sample Of Green Tea from Japan
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

JimD

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2015, 04:33:42 PM »
It is the incredible costs of cleanup that really strike me.

http://oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Nuclear-Power/The-6.8-Billion-Great-Wall-Of-Japan-Fukushima-Cleanup-Takes-On-Epic-Proportion.html

...The tsunami knocked off power at the nuclear plant, which led to the meltdown of three of the six reactors, with a fourth severely damaged. The ongoing release of radioactive material has prevented anyone from entering parts of the complex.

But getting a handle on the mess, let alone permanently cleaning up the site, has been extraordinarily difficult. The problem is the daily flood of rainwater that flows downhill towards the sea, rushing into the mangled radioactive site. An estimated 300 tons of water reaches the building each day, and then becomes contaminated. TEPCO, the utility that owns the site, has been furiously building above ground storage tanks for radioactive water. Storing the water prevents it from being discharged into the sea, but this Sisyphean task does nothing to ultimately solve the problem as the torrent of water never ends. TEPCO has already put more than 500,000 tons of radioactive water in storage tanks....To reduce the 300 tons of newly created radioactive water each day, TEPCO must cut off the flow of groundwater into the nuclear complex. To do that, it plans on building an ice wall that will surround the four reactors. TEPCO plans on building an intricate array of coolant pipes underneath the reactors, freezing the soil into a hardened ice wall that will block the flow of water. The ice wall will stretch one and a half kilometers around the reactors....

Another unnerving challenge is TEPCO’s plan to remove radioactive elements from contaminated water and then discharge the water into the Pacific Ocean, a plan that is facing enormous pushback. That’s because TEPCO has lost the trust of the public. Not only has the utility responded poorly to the cleanup, but it also recently admitted to not having publicly disclosed that a leak was resulting in radioactive water flowing into the ocean. TEPCO knew about the leak for more than ten months, one of a long line of acts of obfuscation that has enraged the Japanese public. ..


Does anyone really think what they are telling people about the ice wall is accurate or that it will really work or wonder how much it will cost to do this and for how many years it will be needed?

You lie to people enough times and they will never trust anything you say again.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein


mati

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and so it goes


mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #129 on: March 30, 2015, 09:49:12 PM »
the long and arduous process of cleanup continues with some advances.
the cleanup of waste water is still a priority
http://www.dw.de/iaea-significant-progress-at-fukushima/a-18264253
and so it goes

johnm33

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #130 on: March 31, 2015, 12:01:48 AM »
There are 3 cores melted through the basement taking the steel reinforcing with them leaving behind a 'honeycomb' of concrete. These cores continue to react, uncontained.
 
[from http://agreenroad.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/iodine-131-in-sewage-sludge-amounts.html ]
The complex soup of breakdown products from the [4000t] mixed oxide fuel constantly reacting with the groundwater, from the underground streams, continues to escape into the atmosphere and the Pacific. The Pacific may be dying, from the bottom of the food chain up. Noticed any pink sunsets they're claimed to be a result of the ceasium in the atmosphere, if you've seen any chances are the iodine 131 is reaching you before it breaks down into harmless forms and you and yours should consider taking iodine tablets. The various particulates are both highly toxic in their own right and emit mutagenic radiation wherever they happen to lodge. More here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6vkDwOpTl0&feature=youtube_gdata_player
They have no idea how to sort this, no idea where the cores are, and seem to be more concerned with sustaining yeild for the shareholders than admitting their thouroughgoing incompetance and getting someone serious to help. Other veiws are available.
edit link in brackets
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:22:43 AM by johnm33 »

mati

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and so it goes

mati

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and so it goes

JimD

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #133 on: April 07, 2015, 05:50:45 PM »
I'm sure some credible nuclear expert (a euphemism for 'brain dead idiot') can just jump up here and tell us another story about how all of this is just ALARMISM and to move on down the road. 

Times: “The worst possible result” revealed at Fukushima — Plant Chief: Centuries may pass before humans find a way to deal with molten cores — Top Official: “We have no idea” what to do, “the technology simply doesn’t exist… I can’t say it’s possible” (VIDEOS)


NHK: The people trying to decommission the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant have been hit by setback after setback… and faced accusations of misconduct. It’s lost them a lot of public trust… [Naohiro Masuda, president of Tepco's decommissioning company] revealed he’s not sure if he can comply with the government set plan [for] removing the fuel…
Naohiro Masuda, president of Tepco’s Fukushima Daiichi Decommissioning Company: We have no idea about the debris. We don’t know its shape or strength. We have to remove it remotely from 30 meters above, but we don’t have that kind of technology, it simply doesn’t exist... We still don’t know whether it’s possible to fill the reactor containers with water. We’ve found some cracks and holes in the three damaged container vessels, but we don’t know if we found them all. If it turns out there are other holes, we might have to look for some other way to remove the debris.
NHK: Asked [about the gov't target to begin by 2020], his answer was surprisingly candid.
Masuda: It’s a very big challenge. Honestly speaking, I cannot say it’s possible.
Dale Klein, Tepco Nuclear Reform Monitoring Committee chair, Mar 31, 2015 (at 24:00 in):

Richard Lloyd Parry, The Times: I was at the plant last week on the tour and we talked Mr. Ono, the boss. He made no bones about the fact that the technology… to remove the molten or semi-molten fuel doesn’t exist yet… I asked him how can you be sure that it will be, and he said, “Well, 200 years ago people would never have dreamed of bullet trains or mobile phones, but they exist.” That seems to be the scale of the leap… that’s going to be required. So there must be immense uncertainties around that… There must surely be a chance that it won’t work out, and that the eventual solution will be something like the Chernobyl solution… a sarcophagus of some kind sealing in the 3 plants…
Klein: This is something that has never been done… Units 1, 2, and 3… molten fuel penetrated the bottom of the vessel… We don’t know… how much and where it moved.
The Times (complete article), Mar 28, 2015: The chief of the Fukushima nuclear power station has admitted that the technology needed to decommission three melted-down reactors does not exist, and he has no idea how it will be developed [and] conceded that the stated goal of decommissioning the plant by 2051 may be impossible without a giant technological leap… [Tepco] continues to be embarrassed by leaks of radiation into the sea… Recent scans of one revealed the worst possible result: all the nuclear fuel that was in the reactor’s furnace has melted and dripped down into the concrete outer containment vessel… The alternative would be to seal the entire complex in a giant sarcophagus like the one covering Chernobyl — but it would have to extend underground to stop contaminated groundwater reaching the sea. [See the initial report based on an excerpt from this article here]

Akira Ono, chief of Fukushima Daiichi, Mar 28, 2015: “There are so many uncertainties… For removal of the debris, we don’t have accurate information… or any viable methodology… I believe human beings have the capability to develop technologies… It may take 200 years.”


200 years?  What is sea level rise going to be in 200 years?  10 meters?  Sounds like the problem will be solved since it will be underwater by then most likely.

http://enenews.com/times-worst-possible-result-revealed-fukushima-plant-chief-centuries-pass-before-humans-invent-deal-molten-fuel-videos
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #134 on: April 07, 2015, 10:18:52 PM »
Trace amounts of Fukushima radioactivity detected along shoreline of British Columbia
http://phys.org/news/2015-04-amounts-fukushima-radioactivity-shoreline-british.html

Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #135 on: April 13, 2015, 11:13:54 AM »
In Fukushima even robots are dying...

Fukushima robot stranded after stalling inside reactor
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/13/fukushima-robot-stalls-reactor-abandoned

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #136 on: April 13, 2015, 03:09:22 PM »
and so it goes

Laurent

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #137 on: April 14, 2015, 09:50:23 AM »

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #138 on: April 15, 2015, 12:23:23 AM »
i think the UK needs to look to protecting their food supply from chemical pollution... I myself consider endocrine disrupters to be the biggest threat to mankind after global warming...

and so it goes

tombond

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #139 on: April 16, 2015, 01:41:10 AM »
The role of the Tokyo United Nations University is to generate new knowledge, educate, enhance individual and institutional capacities, and disseminate useful information to relevant audiences.
This is a United Nations University education video with useful information about Fukushima.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTHsXGbpfs

It features Professor Gerry Thomas of the Imperial College, London who was a member of the UNSCEAR committee on the Health effects of the Chernobyl accident who makes the following comments about Fukushima.
At 0:21 the short term harmful health effects at Fukushima are due to radioactive iodine but because of its very short half-life, it has all decayed from the environment within three months. 
At 0:45 there are no long term harmful health effects from radiation at Fukushima as the studies from Chernobyl show that radioactive caesium which has a longer half-life does not concentrate in the human body.  People living at Chernobyl who returned to their homes and refused to leave accumulated the equivalent of one CT scan of radiation over 25 years.
At 2:10 Professor Thomas exposure to radiation was higher from the airplane flight from London to Tokyo than it was when she visited the Fukushima nuclear plant site.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 05:48:14 AM by tombond »

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #140 on: April 17, 2015, 12:14:24 AM »
oh some people who post here probably have never heard of http://www.unscear.org/ nor what it does.
time to read up kids

http://www.unscear.org/unscear/en/fukushima.html

http://www.unscear.org/docs/Factsheet_E_V1406112_ebook.pdf
and so it goes

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #141 on: April 17, 2015, 12:23:43 AM »
as opposed to the following set of air burst nuclear tests done in Nevada which so graciously irradiated me as a child.....

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/tests/USA-ntests1.html
and so it goes

wili

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #142 on: April 17, 2015, 02:00:15 AM »
Since you brought it up:

Fukushima nuclear decommissioners have no idea how to deal with molten nuclear cores
by Christina MacPherson
Times: “The worst possible result” revealed at Fukushima —

Plant Chief: Centuries may pass before humans find a way to deal with molten cores

Top Official: “We have no idea” what to do, “the technology simply doesn’t exist… I can’t say it’s possible”

(VIDEOS) http://enenews.com/times-worst-possible-result-revealed-fukushima-plant-chief-centuries-pass-before-humans-invent-deal-molten-fuel-videos
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #143 on: April 17, 2015, 02:21:13 PM »
Update from TEPCO on the robotic inspection of unit 1
Pictures, video and description of task

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/press/corp-com/release/2015/1249780_6844.html
and so it goes

wili

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #144 on: April 19, 2015, 05:22:11 PM »
http://www.panorama.am/en/popular/2015/04/18/kevin-kamps/

Fukushima lessons: Any notion that nuclear power is clean is obsolete:

The world must phase out nuclear power because it is absolutely not clean from the mining processing of uranium to the generation of high-level radioactive waste...


"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #145 on: April 19, 2015, 07:58:20 PM »
unfort we do not have an alternative right now.
solar/wind and grid storage are still very new technologies, they have hope, but they need 50 to
100 years to mature.

Nuclear needs to fill the gap EVEN though there are problems with the technology
(as there is with all of the others) as far as i know, EVERY single energy generation technology has social, economic and technical problems.

BUT our society going forward is extremely dependent on electrical generation, without it we
will fall back into barbarity. CO2 generation MUST be reduced ASAP and unfort I really dont see any other short term solution. OTHER than a global pandemic that reduces the population of the earth by 90 percent and destroys whatever life our children will have.
and so it goes

wili

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #146 on: April 19, 2015, 09:32:26 PM »
'barbarity' laugh out loud. Well, at least you didn't use the worn out cliche of 'living in caves'! ;D

We can obviously massively reduce our use of electricity tomorrow and of most other energy uses as well, if we really saw it as the highest imaginable priority that it is.

"CO2 generation MUST be reduced ASAP" -- On this, at least, we can can certainly agree.

As to your first point:

How long does it take to build a nuke plant?

How long does it take to put up a wind mill or solar panel?

End of discussion.
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

tombond

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #147 on: April 20, 2015, 03:05:20 AM »
The first “Scientists Advisory Meeting for Radiation Accurate Information” (SAMRAI) was held on March 24th 2015 at the First Diet Member’s Hall of the House of Representatives, Tokyo, Japan.
The theme was “Scientific understanding of low-dose radiation in Fukushima and the issue of rehabilitation in the 20 km zone” was made to 270 legislators, industry leaders, a few members of the news media, Japanese Bureaucrats in charge of radiation regulations, and interested members of the public. 
Scientific evidence was presented to show that the widespread belief of there being no safe level of radiation exposure is incorrect. 
Rather, a large body of scientific data shows there is a threshold exposure of harm which is many times higher than any possible doses that could be received by Fukushima evacuees if they were allowed to return home. 
In addition, the deaths caused by the chaotic evacuation of the 20km radius around Fukushima Daiichi on March 12, 2011 could have been avoided if scientific reasoning had been used to protect the public. 
All five speakers agreed that low-dose radiation levels of exposure in Fukushima pose no health risks to the public, thus full repopulation should be allowed as soon as possible. Further delay in repopulation will continue to worsen the existing confusion caused by rumour and misinformation both in Japan and the world at-large.
Seven recommendations were made to the government of Japan, in the interest of supplanting the present state of public misunderstanding with correct scientific knowledge in order to end social confusion.
They are…
(1) Inform the public that Fukushima’s population was exposed to low doses of radiation within which there is no health risk to people, both inside and outside Japan,
(2) Facilitate scientific presentations to the public that provide correct radiation information,
(3) Return radiation standards to those guidelines initially proposed by the Nuclear Safety Commission of Japan,
(4) Have realistic assessments made on exposures received by returning residents to their homes through the use of personal dosimeters,
(5) Recognize and support active attempts towards the return of the population, including an ongoing project for breeding cattle in Namie Town,
(6) Expedite recovery of infrastructure destroyed by the Great East Japan Earthquake and Tsunami of 2011 inside the 20 km exclusion zone, and
(7) Restart Japanese nuclear plants as soon as possible once the new regulations have been satisfied.

See also ; http://rpic.jp/topics/images/docs_00078_4.pdf

mati

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #148 on: April 21, 2015, 12:35:16 AM »
'barbarity' laugh out loud. Well, at least you didn't use the worn out cliche of 'living in caves'! ;D

We can obviously massively reduce our use of electricity tomorrow and of most other energy uses as well, if we really saw it as the highest imaginable priority that it is.

"CO2 generation MUST be reduced ASAP" -- On this, at least, we can can certainly agree.

As to your first point:

How long does it take to build a nuke plant?

How long does it take to put up a wind mill or solar panel?

End of discussion.


hmm let's see
new nuclear plant say an AP1000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP1000
producing say a constant 1000 MWe
China wants to have 100 units under construction and operating by 2020
the two american units seem to be coming in at a price of about $8 billion each, this should
come down if the same design keeps being built (a difference from previous reactors in the US)
It looks like it takes between 6 to 7 years to build these new reactors:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/Country-Profiles/Countries-A-F/China--Nuclear-Power/

Let's now  look at wind
One turbine now is capable of about 1.5Mw max output.
http://energy.gov/eere/next-generation-wind-technology
Cost of installation is about $1 million per megawatt so $1 billion for 1000 MWe
Here is a wind power installation approximately equivalent to one nuclear reactor with an installed capacity of 1,320 MWe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alta_Wind_Energy_Center
The wind farm began production in 2006 with the signing of the contract and completed to the given capacity in 2013, so it does take time to build a full wind farm....
Sounds like wind is THE solution...

However the actual annual output from the wind farm is 1,690 GW·h
compared to 18,297 GW·h. for the AP1000.  This is because wind is not sustained.  It requires
supplemental backup for when wind is not blowing.

So the total cost of the wind power is about equal to the AP1000 over a year.
However i have not figured in the cost of the backup power source when the wind is not blowing.
(gas power plants?) Nor the cost of electrical grid storage.

I have also not researched the cost of decommisioning/replacing the wind turbines and the nuclear reactor, nor the expected lifetimes for each (wind turbines too new to know, although AP1000  nuclear plants are expected to have a 60 yr lifespan)

Now I think it is great that we are diversifying our energy sources, and I applaud their use but they are not the ONLY source we should rely on.
 

and so it goes

icefest

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Re: Fukushima leak emergency: LIVE UPDATES
« Reply #149 on: April 21, 2015, 03:47:21 PM »
AFAIR there is no currently operating AP100.
Unless they have a 100% uptime they'll need backup too. And not predictable backup like for wind but 1000mw in a second or two. Wind doesn't need that due to the inherent safely of multiple turbines. 

Assuming your nuclear plant takes 8 years to build, it would be cheaper to build wind now and then buy battery storage in 7 years.

You should reread your reference; the average wind turbine installed in 2013 was 1.87mw. 
It also mentions electricity costs of less than 2.5c/kwh  - even with storage that's hard to match with nuclear.

I used to think the same as you, but I find that the cost analysis swings the other way now.




Open other end.