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werther

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #50 on: October 14, 2013, 11:18:33 AM »
I remember that analysis... nevertheless even Fish-out-of-water must have been surprised by the remaining SIE/SIA/volume at minimum.
A new pattern came in my mind too (see the start of this thread), but 2013 could prove to be a 'blip' as Chris pointed out.

bluesky

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #51 on: October 14, 2013, 07:29:33 PM »
Many thanks for your reply and your very clear explanations Chris, they perfectly clarify my questions, I always read your posts with great interest. Maybe it was also a weather pattern for the Alps too this year.

werther

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #52 on: October 14, 2013, 09:55:59 PM »
Hi Bluesky,
For the Alps, look at "From a glaciers perspective", Mauri Pelto. He has Zermatt in the pic now.
I happened to check UniZurichs' Swiss Glacier Network after a long time no see. but that site seems not to have been refreshed since 2011, hélas.

Andreas T

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2013, 12:05:42 AM »
monthly and yearly temperature anomalies for Switzerland can be seen herehttp://www.meteoschweiz.admin.ch/web/de/klima/klima_heute/klimakarten_schweiz.html
winter2012/13 was cooler than 1981-2010 average with above average precipitation
summer 2013 was warmer and dryer than average http://www.meteoschweiz.admin.ch/web/de/klima/klima_heute/saisonflash/bulletin2013JJA.html

idunno

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #54 on: October 16, 2013, 12:32:22 PM »
Re a recovery, NSIDC has recently updated its FAQ link

http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/#why_more

What would it mean for Arctic sea ice to recover?

Sea ice extent normally varies from year to year, much like the weather changes from day to day. But just as one warm day in October does not negate a cooling trend toward winter, a slight annual gain in sea ice extent over a record low does not negate the long-term decline.

Even though the extent of Arctic sea ice has not returned to the record low of 2012, the data show that it is not recovering. To recover would mean returning to within its previous, long-term range. Arctic sea ice extent remains very low.

In addition, sea ice remains much thinner than in the past, and so is more vulnerable to further decline. While ice thickness is difficult to measure using satellites, a variety of data sources and estimates indicate that the Arctic ice cover remains thin. For more information on ice thickness, see the Icelights article, Getting beneath the ice.

So what would scientists call a recovery in sea ice? First, a true recovery would continue over a period of multiple years. Second, scientists would expect to see a series of minimum sea ice extents that not only exceed the previous year, but also return to within the range of natural variation. In a recovery, scientists would also expect to see a return to an Arctic sea ice cover dominated by thicker, multiyear ice.

ChrisReynolds

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Re: This melt seasons analysis
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2013, 09:45:48 PM »
Idunno,

Sorry, I missed your link to Tenney Naumer's blog, interesting article from daily Kos, not sure I'm convinced but I'll have a think about it, and a look when NCEP/NCAR is up and running again. The law of large numbers may play a role in this, but it might be significant that for the Central England Temperature series, March 2013 was the coldest March since the start of the series in 1878!