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Jim Hunt

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The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« on: September 18, 2013, 01:09:13 AM »
Those of you from the UK may well be familiar with David Rose's regular rants in the Mail on Sunday about what he calls the "Great Green Con". Now he's regurgitating what I call the "Great White Con". According to Rose in the Mail last weekend:

A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year – an increase of 60 per cent.


and continuing this weekend with:

Leaked report reveals the world is warming at half the rate claimed by IPCC in 2007


As Neven put it on the blog:

As always, Rose's propaganda is full of holes and lies by omission.


As the release of the next IPCC report looms on the horizon, the lies are included this time around. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of the continued barrage of half truths and untruths from Rose and his ilk, so I've complained to the UK's Press Complaints Commission. How far this gets me remains to be seen, but if you so desire you can read all about it on a shiny new web site accessible at:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/blog

Following a suggestion by NeilT of this parish, information is also now available on Facebook and on Twitter. Come along and let us know what you think, and if you approve of this modest little campaign please do tell your friends.

As for that "one million square miles" headline, the NSIDC see things rather differently to the Mail:


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pikaia

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 01:56:14 PM »
I see that the Mail report has been greatly altered, and now it is even worse. Now the headline says "World's top climate scientists confess: Global warming is just QUARTER what we thought".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2420783/Global-warming-just-HALF-said-Worlds-climate-scientists-admit-computers-got-effects-greenhouse-gases-wrong.html

"Clarification

An original version of this article sought to make the fairest updated comparison with the 0.2C warming rate stated by the IPCC in 2007.

It drew on the following sentence in the draft 2013 summary: ‘The rate of warming over the past 15 years… of 0.05C per decade is smaller than the trend since 1951, 0.12C per decade.’ This would represent a reduction in the rate of warming by a little under one half.

But critics argued that the 0.2C warming rate in the 2007 report relates only to the previous 15 years whereas the 0.12C figure in the forthcoming report relates to the half-century since 1951. They pointed out that the equivalent figure in the 2007 report was 0.13C.

This amended article compares the 0.05C per decade observed in the past 15 years with the 0.2C per decade observed in the period 1990-2005 and with the prediction that this rate per decade would continue for a further 20 years."


No confidence limits for either figure in the last paragraph, and no reference or quotation of the "prediction", no explanation of why the rate of warming should be constant anyway. More Rose fertiliser.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 02:44:53 PM »
I see that the Mail report has been greatly altered, and now it is even worse.


The article you're referring to is David Rose's second "Great White Con". The first one was published the previous Sunday, and we're still deconstructing the "inaccuracies" in that one. Here's our new music video on the preliminary NSIDC 2013 Arctic ice minimum extent:

The Great White Con - Episode 1


We hope it proves to be music to the ears of David Rose and his ilk!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

ivica

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 03:21:48 PM »
Jim, thanks.
"This is a world of trouble
but its mine"

BTW:
Description in video above gives wrong link
The music is "World of Trouble" by Russian band "Void Void" from the charity compilation album "Water Connects Us":
http://WaterConnectsUs.org

Use: http://water-connects-us.org/
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 03:40:51 PM by ivica »

ChrisReynolds

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 03:57:13 PM »
Rose ignores:
Foster & Rahmstorf, 2011, Global temperature evolution 1979–2010.
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044022/pdf/1748-9326_6_4_044022.pdf
Kaufman et al, Reconciling anthropogenic climate change with observed temperature 1998–2008.
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2011/06/27/1102467108.abstract
Kosaka and Xie, Recent global-warming hiatus tied to equatorial Pacific surface cooling.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12534.html
Cohen et al, 2012, Asymmetric seasonal temperature trends.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/2011GL050582/abstract

The hiatus in GW has been pretty well explained by those four sets of researchers. That Rose whines on about the hiatus in GW shows that he is the sort of idiot who would call out a heating engineer claiming his central heating wasn't working, only for the engineer to find the radiators hot and that Rose has all his windows open.

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 04:01:22 PM »
I'd also add that 60% number is less significant than people think. That is because when SIE is getting smaller, variance will make percentage bigger.

For example: SIE (in August) in year 1995 is 6.68 and 1996 is 8.17. Absolute difference is 1.49, relative difference is 1.22, i.e. 22% increase.

But SIE in 2012 is 4.71 and 2013 is 6.09. Absolute difference is 1.38, relative difference is 1.29, i.e. 29% increase.

So despite absolute increase in 2012-2013 being lower than 1995-1996, relative difference (percentage) is bigger. When we approach zero this relative differences will become even bigger (if variance stays the same, which I think is a reasonable assumption).

So beware of these manipulations with numbers. 60% may not be that much if variation is significant and sea ice was very small in the first place.

pikaia

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 07:39:27 PM »
Phil Plait the Bad Astronomer, has responded to the "corrected" article.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2013/09/18/climate_change_denier_article_updated_still_riddled_with_errors.html

"I'll note, too, that while the Mail updated their article doubling down (or really, halving down) on warming, they did nothing to change the grievous misquotation of scientist Myles Allen, nor corrected any of the other egregious errors in the article (like propagating the old and long-debunked “Medieval Warming Period was warmer than today before CO2 levels were as high as they are now” gambit). I find it fascinating that they updated the article about one particular error (without actually fixing it) while not correcting the other mistakes."
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 07:48:02 PM by pikaia »

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 07:53:22 PM »
I'd also add that 60% number is less significant than people think


See also: http://greatwhitecon.info/2013/09/60-per-cent-of-nothing/

Fixed now Ivica - TVM
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 09:01:31 PM »
A discussion on the Guardian site today on this self same topic, which I felt compelled to contribute to!

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/sep/18/how-fast-is-arctic-sea-ice-melting
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ivica

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 09:06:43 PM »

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2013, 02:36:18 PM »
Today we're deconstructing the Mail Online's moderation policy:

http://greatwhitecon.info/2013/09/mail-online-moderation-policy/

I've managed to get two comments past the eagle eyed moderators at the Financial Times:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4b1a2f64-2048-11e3-9a9a-00144feab7de.html#comment-5361962

Another two have been "flushed down the memory hole" however.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 05:18:23 PM »
There certainly appears to be a lot of misinformation being exploited around sea ice extent minimum this fall. I thought that I would look at this issue and compare the SIE September average extent from 1979 to the present. I've attached a chart for this from 1979 to 2001. This chart seems to indicate a downward trend in September average extent  but, with the uptick in 2000 and 2001, it is easy to see how the denialist community would argue that there is no obvious trend. Variability from year to year has increased since the late 80's.

It is in the years from 2000 on where the argument for sea ice decline rests. I've decided to look at these years more closely and have calculated a year to year comparison of percentage change in September average extent.

In September 2000, the SIE average was 6.3, an increase of .1 or 1.6%. In 2001, there was another increase from 6.3 to 6.8 or 7.9%. I have calculated the year to year percentage change in September average extent in this manner from 2000 until 2013. Since September average extent for 2013 is not yet known, I chose to eyeball a number and have concluded that average extent will be 4.9. The year to year changes from 2000 till 2013 look like this.

2000      +1.6%
2001      +7.9%
2002      -11.7%
2003      +3.3%
2004      -1.6%
2005      -8.2%
2006      +5.4%
2007      -27.1%
2008      +9.3%
2009      +14.9%
2010      -9.3%
2011      -6.1%
2012      -21.7%
2013      +36.1%

2007, with a decline of 27.1% certainly stands out but the following two years saw a rebound. This was followed by a precipitous decline over the next 3 years but the growth in 2013 matches the 3 year decline that precedes it. In fact if you compare the cumulative percentage losses to the cumulative percentage gains from 2000 to 2013 you will find that losses totaled 85.7% while the gains totaled 78.5%. Losses have exceeded gains by a mere 7.2% over a 13 year period or 0.55% per year. Is this such a big deal?    ::)

Can I get a job on a denialist website now?   ;D

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2013, 01:24:28 AM »
The first in a series of "refreeze" video updates from Great White Con. The main idea is to reveal the nonsensity of David Rose's "Unbroken ice sheet", but hopefully they have some modest educational value also:

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pikaia

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2013, 12:40:24 PM »
Some interesting claims about Rose here:

http://tompride.co.uk/2012/11/11/child-abuse-scandal-can-of-worms-just-who-is-daily-mail-reporter-david-rose/

"David Rose seems to be what is known by some people in the trade as a 'fixer'.

'Fixers' obviously 'fix' things - in his case, Rose specialises in 'fixing' tricky problems which are inconveniencing parts of the more conservative parts of the establishment - by using spin, disinformation and pure lies.

In fact, he's been specialising in discrediting victims who have accused establishment figures of child abuse for some years now, as well as trying to discredit child abuse investigations as a whole "


More here:
http://ricosorda.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/daily-mail-journalist-david-rose-he-is.html

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »
David Rose seems to be what is known by some people in the trade as a 'fixer'.


He needs to fix his maths (as we call it here in the UK). We can finally reveal how he contrived to come up with his "nearly a million more square miles".

http://greatwhitecon.info/2013/09/humiliating-mistakes-by-david-rose/

However we are still none the wiser about where he conjured up his "60%increase" from!

"100 * 2.38 / 4.72 = 50.4%"
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

SCM

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2013, 12:32:24 AM »
Big freighter traverses Northwest Passage for 1st time

By John McGarrity and Henning Gloystein
LONDON | Fri Sep 27, 2013 11:36am EDT
(Reuters) - A large freighter completed a voyage through the hazardous Arctic Northwest Passage for the first time this week, showing the potential for cutting shipment times and costs as global warming opens new routes.

The 75,000 deadweight-ton Nordic Orion, built in 2011 by a Japanese shipyard, left the Canadian Pacific port of Vancouver in early September and is scheduled to arrive in the Finnish port of Pori on October 7, according to AIS shipping data...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/27/us-shipping-coal-arctic-idUSBRE98Q0K720130927

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2013, 01:35:31 AM »
Big freighter traverses Northwest Passage for 1st time


Actually I got there long before Reuters!

http://econnexus.org/the-northwest-passage-is-open-for-business/

What I really came here to say was that we have contrived to persuade The Mail to retract the most outrageous of the headline numbers concerning Arctic sea ice that they published on September 8th.

http://greatwhitecon.info/2013/09/the-mail-makes-modest-amends/

Next we'll try and persuade The Telegraph to do likewise. Then of course there's all those other inaccuracies that they both still need to make amends for!
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2013, 10:57:11 PM »
Another video update, which covers the Mail's recent "revision" of its headline numbers, along with any number of ways in which the Mail got its Northern Sea Route and Northwest Passage stories wrong, amongst other things:

The Great White Con - Update 2
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2013, 10:10:56 AM »
The Mail's "retraction" yesterday didn't amount to the proverbial hill of beans, so here's our next report on the recent shock news about "And now it’s global COOLING!":

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/09/santas-secret-summer-swim/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2013, 12:31:37 AM »
The Telegraph have now followed in The Mail's illustrious footsteps and corrected their ludicrous headline numbers, and published a couple of half-hearted "updates" by way of explanation:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/10/will-the-telegraph-print-the-truth-in-the-cold-light-of-day/

The BBC are now in my "little black book" too.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

pikaia

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2013, 12:51:14 AM »
I have been enjoying watching the Mail group squirm following their attack on the deceased father of Ed Milliband (leader of the Labour party), which has provoked a number of complaints to the Press Complaints Commission. Then they went even further, with one reporter gatecrashing the private memorial service of Ed's uncle. I guess it will not be enough to bring them down, as happened with the News Of The World after its underhand methods were revealed, but one can wish!

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2013, 02:09:01 AM »
Then they went even further, with one reporter gatecrashing the private memorial service of Ed's uncle.


As luck would have it I called the Mail on Sunday's Managing Editor on Thursday to ask when I might expect a reply to a couple of emails I'd sent him. He informed me that unfortunately it hadn't yet risen to the top of his "to do list", because most of his time was being taken up sorting out another matter!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 12:15:27 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2013, 07:03:48 PM »
A new article detailing The Telegraph's continuing incompetence/intransigence when it comes to reporting the truth about Arctic sea ice:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/10/russias-northern-shores/

Does this look anything like "an unbroken ice sheet" to you?



Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2013, 03:54:11 PM »
Jim....This may be a little off topic as it has nothing to do with Arctic Ice, but does have to do with the Daily Mail's attitude/position on GW and their deceptive publishing practices.

Ted Thornhill is a writer for the Daily Mail and they published his article on 26 March, 2012....updated 26 March 2012


Is this finally proof we're NOT causing global warming?

The whole of the Earth heated up in medieval times without human CO2 emissions, says new study

    Evidence was found in a rare mineral that records global temperatures
    Warming was global and NOT limited to Europe
    Throws doubt on orthodoxies around 'global warming'

By Ted Thornhill

PUBLISHED: 07:21 EST, 26 March 2012 | UPDATED: 07:55 EST, 26 March 2

Current theories of the causes and impact of global warming have been thrown into question by a new study which shows that during medieval times the whole of the planet heated up.

It then cooled down naturally and there was even a 'mini ice age'.

A team of scientists led by geochemist Zunli Lu from Syracuse University in New York state, has found that contrary to the ‘consensus’, the ‘Medieval Warm Period’ approximately 500 to 1,000 years ago wasn’t just confined to Europe.

In fact, it extended all the way down to Antarctica – which means that the Earth has already experience global warming without the aid of human CO2 emissions.


At present the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) argues that the Medieval Warm Period was confined to Europe – therefore that the warming we’re experiencing now is a man-made phenomenon.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Below is a statement by Zunlj Lu the original Author of the mis-quoted report.

Recently published climate research by Zunli Lu, a geochemist in the Department of Earth Sciences in Syracuse University’s College of Arts and Sciences, has gone viral across the Internet by bloggers. A number of media outlets, including theDaily Mail and The Register, which are published in the United Kingdom, claim this research supports arguments that human-induced global warming is a myth. The claims, Lu says, misrepresent his work and the conclusions in the study. The statement below is an effort to set the record straight. The original news story about the research is posted on Arts and Sciences News.

Zunli Lu:
“It is unfortunate that my research, “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula,” recently published in Earth and Planetary Science Letters, has been misrepresented by a number of media outlets.

Several of these media articles assert that our study claims the entire Earth heated up during medieval times without human CO2 emissions. We clearly state in our paper that we studied one site at the Antarctic Peninsula. The results should not be extrapolated to make assumptions about climate conditions across the entire globe. Other statements, such as the study “throws doubt on orthodoxies around global warming,” completely misrepresent our conclusions. Our study does not question the well-established anthropogenic warming trend.”

I'm kinda new around here so I do not know if this has been previously discussed.

Bligh

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2013, 10:42:45 PM »
Hi Bligh,

Thanks for the information, which is certainly news to me. I'm not a regular Daily Mail reader!

As you say, it seems to be yet another article that's "par for the course" when it comes to the Mail's climate change coverage.  This time around David Rose happened to write a load of nonsense about several of my specialist subjects this summer, even before he got on to misrepresenting climate science.

All of which reminds me that I've neglected to mention in here that the Mail on Sunday's Managing Editor has been in touch again after some further badgering from yours truly. Hence I've recently endeavoured to explain to him yet again that "20% to 80%" is not the same as 100%:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/10/the-balding-arctic-exposed/

Whether he takes any notice remains to be seen, although he did (somewhat grudgingly) previously agree that 29.3% is not the same as 60%. If not then we'll endeavour to discover whether the Press Complaints Commission can tell the difference or not.   

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2013, 03:38:40 AM »
Hi Bligh,

Thanks for the information, which is certainly news to me. I'm not a regular Daily Mail reader!

As you say, it seems to be yet another article that's "par for the course" when it comes to the Mail's climate change coverage.  This time around David Rose happened to write a load of nonsense about several of my specialist subjects this summer, even before he got on to misrepresenting climate science.

All of which reminds me that I've neglected to mention in here that the Mail on Sunday's Managing Editor has been in touch again after some further badgering from yours truly. Hence I've recently endeavoured to explain to him yet again that "20% to 80%" is not the same as 100%:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/10/the-balding-arctic-exposed/

Whether he takes any notice remains to be seen, although he did (somewhat grudgingly) previously agree that 29.3% is not the same as 60%. If not then we'll endeavour to discover whether the Press Complaints Commission can tell the difference or not.


This son of Adam has been looking for the mother of all those snakes I've heard slithering about, haunting my Garden of Eden for years, with an unbitten apple in his hand. My plan is to use that unbitten apple as a weapon, striking the head of that mother snake, so all those little snakes will slither away and leave my world in peace. A proximity to Rupert Murdoch comes to mind, but I've never accomplished my task. That would be much easier than my idea of collecting the world's worn out shoes and throwing them onto President Bush's Crawford Ranch. I realized they would pile up near the fence and the difficulties involved in necessary catapult designs are something I still haven't accomplished at this date. Other problems, like President Bush seldom visiting his ranch after his presidency and the probability of exacting a direct hit have further delayed my project. Bush after all wasn't what I would consider to be that big of the big snakes causing us our problems. Looking for the media source to find the mother snake is a wise sense of direction!

Bravo! 
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 07:48:39 AM by ggelsrinc »

bligh8

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2013, 05:09:29 AM »
hey Jim......Yea I'm no fan of the daily news I just caught that misquoted and published article on a different forum. Found it hard to believe and did some digging and found the original authors rebuttal.

Anyway....Best pf luck with those phone call's....must be frustrating.

Best,
Bligh

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2013, 11:19:31 PM »
Thanks for your kind words ggelsrinc and Bligh.

We have made progress of a sort. The Mail on Sunday have finally sent us some evidence in an attempt to justify their original "Million more square miles" and "Unbroken ice sheet" claims, the latter still uncorrected:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/11/the-mails-concentration-on-sea-ice-extent/

To say that we are unimpressed is something of an understatement. Press Complaints Commission here we come!

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2013, 01:30:40 AM »
Rose has a new masterpiece proclaiming that the Arctic sea is already recovering due to the stadium wave. Yes, Curry again features in Rose propaganda piece. She must be so annoyed at being used again by the GWPF tribe. The graph in the article is obviously made by someone at the GWPF. Rose uses those all the time, but never attributes them to GWPF. Why is that, I wonder?
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2013, 08:24:02 AM »

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2013, 10:45:06 AM »
Rose has a new masterpiece proclaiming that the Arctic sea is already recovering due to the stadium wave.

Whoops. I forgot to mention that bit in here!

Yes, Curry again features in Rose propaganda piece. She must be so annoyed at being used again by the GWPF tribe. The graph in the article is obviously made by someone at the GWPF. Rose uses those all the time, but never attributes them to GWPF. Why is that, I wonder?

It's very hard to persuade David to reveal his sources, but we have now succeeded in the case of "An unbroken ice sheet". It looks like the time has come to ask the same questions about "Arctic sea ice has already started to recover"!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2013, 12:59:33 PM »
Thanks for your kind words ggelsrinc and Bligh.

We have made progress of a sort. The Mail on Sunday have finally sent us some evidence in an attempt to justify their original "Million more square miles" and "Unbroken ice sheet" claims, the latter still uncorrected:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2013/11/the-mails-concentration-on-sea-ice-extent/

To say that we are unimpressed is something of an understatement. Press Complaints Commission here we come!


Those weren't kind words, but simple respect for a man who holds his ground. Do you have information of who is responsible for disinformation in the UK? I can ramble on about how simply smelling sea salt will do a person good, like giving them a sense of real smell, but that's besides the point. Is there easy assess into who owns the media in the UK?

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« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 01:15:50 PM by Jim Hunt »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2013, 04:49:00 PM »
The next installment in this long running saga:

"Has Arctic Sea Ice Already Started to Recover?"

In brief, our answer is NO!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

idunno

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 05:23:31 PM »
Hi Jim,

Did you see that the Mail has won a prestigious media award?

http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/12/30/climate-change-misinformer-of-the-year-the-dail/197340

(Thanks for the ref to Dosbat on Barnes).

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2014, 01:44:06 AM »
Did you see that the Mail has won a prestigious media award?

Not until you pointed it out, thanks. Richly deserved!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Andreas T

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2014, 09:40:51 PM »
British readers may appreciate this which isn't directly connected to the topic of this thread.
The BBC recently showed a  repeat of the 2007 "Top Gear" episode where Jeremy Clarkson drove a "SUV" to what many viewers understood to be the North Pole.
Some quick fact checking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_north shows how far the end point of that stunt (which was accompanied by the usual denialist commentary by that comic book petrolhead) was from a meaningful North Pole.
The irony of this rerun which should be more widely known is that it is unlikely that this trip through the Canadian Archipelago to the 1996 magnetic north pole will be repeated.
The "polar race" which takes this location as its end point has been organized the last time in 2011 as far as I can tell. On their website http://www.polarrace.com/ there is an entry dated 9 May 2011:
It was really only after our contestants got to the Pole that the real problems started as after losing a plane through the ice to the bottom of the ocean last year the pilots are understandably more cautious this year. It is a dangerous job and the pilot has the final call.

People here of course know that thick ice will continue to be found in this part of the world, but that it has become too unreliable for landing planes should be a graphic illustration for the people who thought that driving  car to a place which was once called the north pole says something about the state of arctic sea ice.

ghoti

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2014, 10:18:29 PM »
Remember these are the same guys (Top Gear) that test drove a Tesla Roadster and faked it running out of battery charge in their attempt to discredit EVs. So cons are clearly their stock and trade.

ChrisReynolds

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2014, 06:55:56 PM »
Andreas,

I remember when first seeing that I had a suspicion it wasn't the real pole (only two broken ice fields on the way?) and I think that on one quick shot the lat/lon can be seen, and the lat wasn't 90.

I still like those Top Gear specials, and the pole one is one of my favourites.

jdallen

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2014, 08:25:53 PM »
I still like those Top Gear specials, and the pole one is one of my favourites.

As do I; I think it one needs to keep firmly in mind the obvious bias of the actors, and the notion that it is *entertainment* rather than real (queue: Bear Grylls being caught at a hotel rather than in "the wild" during a supposed trip. I like Grylls, too, but the event highlights the contrived nature of most of those shows...)

On the other hand, that "entertainment" does no one good, when in the name of cynical self interest, it promotes an interpretation of fact 180 degrees out of phase with our general welfare.
This space for Rent.

ChrisReynolds

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2014, 10:18:05 PM »
Oh yeah,

I watch it and think 'Clarkson - you w--ker', but it still can be funny. FWIW, I no longer own a car, I only drive when needed to be work - I can hardly lug a stack of kit by bus...

Anyway you can't blame Clarkson and the rest. It's telling that when fossil fuel prices go up the government starts wobbling and talking of rolling back the Greenwash. The more I watch this society from the outside, the more I think of Forster's "The Machine Stops"

If you've not read it - make some time, it's stunningly prescient.
http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html

"Beware of first- hand ideas!" exclaimed one of the most advanced of them. "First-hand ideas do not really exist. They are but the physical impressions produced by live and fear, and on this gross foundation who could erect a philosophy? Let your ideas be second-hand, and if possible tenth-hand, for then they will be far removed from that disturbing element - direct observation.

TerryM

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #41 on: January 21, 2014, 06:20:50 AM »
An interesting read Chris, I fear the music is stopping.
Terry

ChrisReynolds

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #42 on: January 21, 2014, 06:25:35 PM »
Terry,

As long as it didn't feel like a waste of your time.  :)

Thinking about it today, I guess I'm reading Peak Oil and Twitter (etc) into it.

Buddy

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2014, 06:43:52 PM »
Whether it is the "Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con", Governor Christy's web of lies he is spinning, Lance Armstrong's 15+ years of lying, or those being paid by oil and gas interests to lie about climate change.........a couple things are becoming clearer:

1)  Humans have a problem with lying
2)  A lot of OTHER humans have a problem with HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE for the lies
3)  Mankind has to do a LOT better job of #2

The TRUTH never leaves.......it just wait's to be discovered.  The climate deniers can lie, mislead, and distract.....but they can't change the truth.

 
FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Shared Humanity

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2014, 11:08:11 PM »
Whether it is the "Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con", Governor Christy's web of lies he is spinning, Lance Armstrong's 15+ years of lying, or those being paid by oil and gas interests to lie about climate change.........a couple things are becoming clearer:

1)  Humans have a problem with lying
2)  A lot of OTHER humans have a problem with HOLDING THEM ACCOUNTABLE for the lies
3)  Mankind has to do a LOT better job of #2

The TRUTH never leaves.......it just wait's to be discovered.  The climate deniers can lie, mislead, and distract.....but they can't change the truth.

And the truth shall not set us free. The truth is going to kill us.  :-\

ritter

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #45 on: January 22, 2014, 05:20:37 PM »
And the truth shall not set us free. The truth is going to kill us.  :-\

Well you're a happy one this morning!  ;)

Rubikscube

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2014, 06:34:49 PM »
And the truth shall not set us free. The truth is going to kill us.  :-\

so true...  :(

ChrisReynolds

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2014, 06:56:09 PM »
Rather than 'truth', the findings of science enable us to make an informed decision. That is all we can ask for.

ghoti

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2014, 04:58:23 PM »
I guess we shouldn't hold our breath for The Mail to report the lowest Arctic sea ice extent on record for this date...

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2014, 10:12:47 PM »
I guess not Ghoti! Their headline today reads:

Blown away! Flood-hit Britain battered by 100mph 'Wild Wednesday' storms causing travel chaos across road and rail networks.


A Mail headline a couple of weeks ago read:

Climate change is NOT main cause of floods, say experts: Building on plains and cutting down trees are among the true reasons.


They have however republished an AP article today that states:

Britain's weather service says it sees the tentacles of climate change in a spate of storms and floods battering the country, but has stopped short of saying warming directly caused the extreme storms.

The latest round of bad weather hit Britain's west coast Wednesday with winds gusting at more than 100 miles (160 kilometers) an hour.

The Met Office said in a paper published this week that "there is no definitive answer" on the role played by climate change in the recent weather and floods. But it said there is "an increasing body of evidence that extreme daily rainfall rates are becoming more intense," probably due to a warming world. Met Office chief scientist Julia Slingo told the BBC that "all the evidence suggests there is a link to climate change."
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein