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Author Topic: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con  (Read 140718 times)

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2014, 02:50:32 PM »
Somebody mentioned Steven Goddard on the blog, so I foolishly headed over to read about some "Real Science" for the first time in a long time. Lo and behold I discovered that in his infinite wisdom Steve has just republished some of the Mail on Sunday's Arctic Sea Ice nonsense for the umpteenth time. I'm afraid I couldn't resist the temptation to try upsetting a global warming sceptic once again.

Here is the record thus far of my alter ego "just having fun"  with Steve and his acolytes:

http://archive.is/stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/shocking-increase-in-arctic-ice-dooms-the-planet/
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2014, 03:21:53 PM »
I think the information on "Real Science" is every bit as believable as the news on FOX  :P

All you have to do is (a) suspend any notion of logic, (b) suspend any notion of science and accuracy, and (c) suspend any notion that they are biased.  If you're able to do that....they are believable:)




FOX (TASS) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2014, 04:12:19 PM »
Steve doesn't give up easily, so I've invited him for a surf:

http://archive.is/stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/great-lakes-set-another-springtime-record-lake-ontario-up-to-62/

He's now run off to Twitter, where I am in hot pursuit!

https://twitter.com/GreatWhiteCon

At least it gives me an excuse to post some pretty pictures over there!

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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #53 on: March 09, 2014, 09:16:42 PM »
Goddard is still prattling on about an "Arctic Ice Recovery" even as CT area and NSIDC extent hit all time lows for the date.  Consequently I've felt compelled to put pen to virtual paper in this shiny new blog post:

"The Arctic Sea Ice “Recovery” Vanishes"

I have reproduced the efforts of some of the posters here, duly attributed. Please let me know if you're unhappy with my efforts in any way.
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2014, 01:48:33 PM »
I've emailed the appropriate editors at The Express, The Guardian, The Independent, The Mail and The Telegraph about the latest "Shock News!" from The Arctic.

I'll let you know what, if anything, they come up with in response.
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icefest

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2014, 02:09:20 PM »
I've emailed the appropriate editors at The Express, The Guardian, The Independent, The Mail and The Telegraph about the latest "Shock News!" from The Arctic.

I'll let you know what, if anything, they come up with in response.

Thanks, will you be publishing all responses on the blog?
Open other end.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2014, 03:09:37 PM »
Will you be publishing all responses on the blog?


Now that you come to mention it:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/new-mail-for-the-mail/

Thanks for the suggestion!
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #57 on: March 11, 2014, 08:21:48 PM »
No responses as yet. So it goes. I doubt The Mail bother to read their incoming "Tweets", but just in case:

https://twitter.com/GreatWhiteCon/statuses/443463348076945409
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2014, 01:39:51 PM »
It's now lunchtime over on this side of the pond, and still no response from the Great British mass media.

Whilst we twiddle our thumbs and wait, here's some questions I've recently been putting to "Steve Goddard" and his band of merry men:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/some-sceptical-questions/

No answers have been forthcoming as yet, but I live in hope!
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2014, 04:01:35 PM »
I can't bear just sitting around and twiddling my thumbs  :(
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2014, 01:28:53 AM »
Shock News!

At long last we've managed to elicit a response from Steve Goddard along with one of his merry men. Read all about it at:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/some-sceptical-questions/#comment-11680
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2014, 02:21:19 AM »
Gosh, I think that might be a bit too difficult for him, Jim.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2014, 12:04:55 PM »
He managed to cut and paste a picture, but writing any words to go with it seems to have been beyond him!

One of the merry men managed to pose a relevant question at least.
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #63 on: March 14, 2014, 02:53:12 PM »
Still no word from The Mail. However after geeing them up via telephone I did get a response out of The Guardian. To say that I was unimpressed would be something of an understatement!

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/our-guardians-sleeping-on-the-job/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2014, 11:53:41 AM »
We have somehow managed to engage the Mail on Sunday’s top investigative journalist (AKA David Rose) in a debate about sea ice on Twitter:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/a-conversation-with-david-rose/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2014, 02:18:55 PM »
More Shock News!

We've just received a nice note from David Rose's editor at the Mail on Sunday. Needless to say we were less than impressed with the scientific evidence he presented to us. Read all about it at:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/new-mail-for-the-mail/#Update-1
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2014, 06:39:36 PM »
"What is the a priori probability that anything Judy Curry says is correct?"
 An excellent and entertaining question! ;D

Thanks for taking on the Mail's nonsense, Jim.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2014, 08:07:56 PM »
Thanks for your kind words birthmark, and it's my pleasure!

In fact I can't begin to express how much of a pleasure it is. ROFLMAO as Steve Goddard would probably "say"!
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #68 on: March 16, 2014, 12:25:09 PM »
Shock News! There has been some perturbation in the Force!

It seems I have somehow inadvertently managed to upset "Steve Goddard" yet again  :-[

Would anyone else care to play "Spot the difference" with Snow White and I?

http://archive.is/DY4np

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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #69 on: March 16, 2014, 01:56:32 PM »
Still no sign of any sudden absence of censorship at "Real Science" so.....

2014 max - http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/shock-news-real-science-censorship/

2013 melt - http://econnexus.org/how-to-upset-a-global-warming-sceptic/
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #70 on: March 16, 2014, 04:28:22 PM »
I was having a hard time keeping up with the Gish Gallop! Thankfully my alter ego and I have now been told:

And with that lie, you are now on ignore.


http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/some-sceptical-questions/#Q11
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #71 on: March 16, 2014, 08:01:48 PM »
Sadly it seems that the "ignore" only applied to Twitter.

However after a bit of arm twisting Snow White's voice was eventually permitted to be heard at "Real Science". She's had her final warning though  :)

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #72 on: March 16, 2014, 11:30:10 PM »
Probably more than a little OT but Dr. Rood's blog (with a little urging from OLN) seems to have cleaned up their moderation.
http://www.wunderground.com/blog/RickyRood/comment.html?entrynum=290#commenttop
Without all the distractions it's now both readable & informative!
Terry

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2014, 09:09:32 PM »
I now realise I'm falling behind here!

The "Real Science" blog eventually published four links to our previous searing indictment of their sadly lax editorial standards:

http://econnexus.org/how-to-upset-a-global-warming-sceptic/

whilst maintaining it was all the fault of the WordPress spam filter. If Steve's blog was hosted on TypePad I might just have believed him!

In related news you may wish to keep an eye on this currently hastily "retracted" article in a learned journal:

"Recursive fury: Conspiracist ideation in the blogosphere in response to research on conspiracist ideation"

Should you wish to actually read the paper rather than the "non retraction" you could always try here instead!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:20:53 PM by Jim Hunt »
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icefest

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2014, 06:27:16 AM »
Jim Hunt

That last article is actually great reading. I've spent the last 10 minutes cackling to myself.

Open other end.

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #75 on: March 20, 2014, 10:50:26 AM »
That last article is actually great reading. I've spent the last 10 minutes cackling to myself.


I'm glad you enjoyed it! For some additional background here's the original announcement about the paper on Skeptical Science:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/Recursive-Fury-Facts-misrepresentations.html

In case it's not immediately evident, there's currently something of a furore about the fact that Frontiers in Psychology have "not retracted" the paper under pressure from "Conspiricist Ideationists"!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 01:40:38 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #76 on: March 20, 2014, 10:56:20 PM »
Stephan Lewandowsky,  one of the authors of the "Recursive Fury" paper, has now released a video on the same topic.

Vimeo doesn't seem to embed in here successfully, but here's the URL at least (vimeo.com/89099432) or click the text link below.

Stephan Lewandowskay: In Whose Hands the Future? on Vimeo


The video takes viewers on a personal and scientific journey into the murky world of climate denial and the blogs that serve as staging ground for attacks on climate scientists and other scholars and public intellectuals in the climate arena.

The video analyzes the public aspect of the attacks on scientists and presents evidence that the blogosphere’s discourse differs considerably from conventional scholarly discourse. Instead of providing scholarly critique, the discourse in the blogosphere fits many criteria for conspiratorial thinking. The video also reports some of the less visible, subterranean means of attack, such as the attempted intimidation of journal editors and publishers by parties external to the scientific process.


You will note that the Mail on Sunday get a mention!
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 11:35:47 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2014, 03:16:46 PM »
Stephan Lewandowsky has now published a blog post about the "Recursive Fury" controversy:

"Recursive Fury goes recurrent"

Recursive Fury attracted some media attention (e.g., in the New York Times) as well as critique. It should come as little surprise that this critique did not involve a scholarly response, such as submission of a rejoinder for peer review, but that it entailed a barrage of complaints to the University of Western Australia (UWA), where I was based at the time, and the journal Frontiers.

While not retracting the paper, Frontiers removed the article from its website in March 2013. The journal then commenced an arduous process of investigation which has now come to a conclusion.

Frontiers will post (or has posted) the following statement on its website today:

“In the light of a small number of complaints received following publication of the original research article cited above, Frontiers carried out a detailed investigation of the academic, ethical and legal aspects of the work. This investigation did not identify any issues with the academic and ethical aspects of the study. It did, however, determine that the legal context is insufficiently clear and therefore Frontiers wishes to retract the published article. The authors understand this decision, while they stand by their article and regret the limitations on academic freedom which can be caused by legal factors.”

In other words, the article is fine but Frontiers does not want to take the legal risk that its restoration on the website might entail.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 04:40:37 PM by Jim Hunt »
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #78 on: March 21, 2014, 04:54:48 PM »
The Guardian has now joined in the fun:

"Contrarians bully journal into retracting a climate psychology paper"

It's unfortunate that the Frontiers editors were unwilling to stand behind a study that they admitted was sound from an academic and ethical standpoint, especially since UWA concluded the paper would withstand a legal assault. This series of events should be a wake-up call to editors and publishers that they must remain resilient to organized campaigns by the blogosphere. Academics can no longer be confident that the Frontiers staff will stand behind them if they publish research in the journal and are subjected to similar frivolous attacks. Frontiers may very well be worse off having lost the confidence of the academic community than if they had called the bluffs of the contrarians threatening frivolous lawsuits.


Meanwhile Peter Sinclair's "Crock of the Week" seems to have managed to embed the video successfully at least:

"Stephan Lewandowsky: Confronting the Anti-Science Thought Police"

Stealing data, hacking servers, dressing up as “computer technicians” to infiltrate scientific institutions, threatening scientists with death, and intimidation of scientific journals through internet trolling and threats of legal action.  All in a days work for the anti-science movement.

Quick – is this 2014 or 1420?

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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2014, 01:36:20 PM »
Skeptical Science now has a list of all known coverage of the "Recurrent Recursive Fury" controversy:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/republishers.php?a=recurrentfury
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2014, 10:37:21 PM »
Who'd have thought it. Who should I bump into badmouthing Stephan Lewandowsky on Twitter but a certain Mr. David Rose. Here's the resulting article, plus a piccie:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/recursive-fury-from-david-rose/
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2014, 01:51:14 AM »
Who'd have thought it. Who should I bump into badmouthing Stephan Lewandowsky on Twitter but a certain Mr. David Rose. Here's the resulting article, plus a piccie:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/recursive-fury-from-david-rose/


Why is that badmouthing??? Isn't it saying Soviets falsely imprisoned dissidents and Lewandowsky is being treated in a similar way?

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2014, 04:24:50 AM »
Who'd have thought it. Who should I bump into badmouthing Stephan Lewandowsky on Twitter but a certain Mr. David Rose. Here's the resulting article, plus a piccie:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/recursive-fury-from-david-rose/


Why is that badmouthing??? Isn't it saying Soviets falsely imprisoned dissidents and Lewandowsky is being treated in a similar way?


Actually, I believe the good Dr. Lewandowsky is being equated with the soviets ;)
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2014, 11:19:04 AM »
Why is that badmouthing??? Isn't it saying Soviets falsely imprisoned dissidents and Lewandowsky is being treated in a similar way?

Whilst sometimes it's hard to be certain, given the limited number of characters permitted in a "Tweet", in the context my interpretation was the same as jdallen's. "dissidents" = "climate change deniers" rather than "dissidents" = "climate scientists".
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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #84 on: March 28, 2014, 08:39:35 PM »
This was starting to clog up another thread, so to repeat myself somewhat, I now find myself accused of being a "religious True Believer" over in WattsLand:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/03/watts-up-with-the-maximum-trend/

I was merely endeavouring to point out to all the climate change agnostics over there that even when you look at maximum extent the trend is evidently down:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #85 on: March 28, 2014, 09:03:46 PM »
My apologies for the derailment in the "other thread".

I was just pointing out that (to me) there is little to get excited about in regards to max extent when the minimum extent is the worrisome issue in regards to Arctic Ice.  Any agnostic looking at minimums would have a hard time coming up with anything whatsoever that could be viewed as a positive. 


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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #86 on: March 29, 2014, 01:08:05 PM »
My apologies for the derailment in the "other thread".

No apologies necessary. I didn't mean to imply I thought you were derailing the other thread. The fault is all mine!

In this case my investigations into some of the falsehoods perpetrated by the denialistas on both sides of the Atlantic  led me to comment about "long term trends" on a WUWT thread about the Arctic sea ice extent maximum. I don't expect to change anybody's mind over there, but in this instance it seemed appropriate to illustrate the glaring omission of such a relevant piece of information (IMHO of course!) from an article on the self styled "world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change".

In general terms, if one were presenting the evidence to someone with a proverbial "open mind" starting with the trend for extent minimum would indeed make more sense. Here's what my hastily constructed spreadsheet reveals on that front:
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2014, 12:42:25 PM »
In general terms, if one were presenting the evidence to someone with a proverbial "open mind" starting with the trend for extent minimum would indeed make more sense. Here's what my hastily constructed spreadsheet reveals on that front:

I think the hasty report to an open minded person would show extent, explaining that that is what is easily seen from satellite. However thickness is also falling and this is important:



Point out trend line for extent falls from 7.5 to 4.7 but for volume it is 15 down to 4.3 less than 30% left instead of 63% left.

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2014, 02:14:29 PM »
However thickness is also falling and this is important


Quite so. However sea ice thickness (and hence volume) is trickier to measure from a satellite. PIOMAS volume and ACNFS thickness are both outputs from computer models, and the denialistas don't trust computer models, except when it suits them of course! Would the average "open minded person in the street" be persuaded, particularly if they've already seen vast amounts of anti-model propaganda? See Skeptical Science climate myth #6 for example:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models-basic.htm
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2014, 06:02:30 PM »
According to the March 2014 edition of Arctic Sea Ice News:

The percentage of the Arctic Ocean consisting of ice at least five years or older remains at only 7%, half of what it was in February 2007. Moreover, a large area of the multiyear ice has drifted to the southern Beaufort Sea and East Siberian Sea (north of Alaska and the Lena River delta), where warm conditions are likely to exist later in the year.


We thought we'd point out to any interested WUWTers that actually warm conditions have existed in the southern Beaufort Sea and East Siberian Sea for quite some time now. However it appears as if the powers that be in WattsLand had other ideas:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/04/whats-up-with-watts-moderation-episode-1/
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #90 on: April 09, 2014, 09:20:07 AM »
The IPCC has issued a reply to the Mail on Sunday's claim that there are errors in its latest assessment report:-

http://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/press/140406_statement_mail_online_statement.pdf




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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #91 on: April 09, 2014, 11:15:42 AM »
The IPCC has issued a reply to the Mail on Sunday's claim that there are errors in its latest assessment report


David Rose has been "economical with the truth" once again, although in this case not specifically about the Arctic. The Mail on Sunday recently assured us they're not particularly interested in the Arctic at this time of year, so we're concentrating our attention on sins of omission in other parts of the denialosphere at present:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2014/04/the-arctic-sea-ice-recovery-vanishes-even-more/
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #92 on: April 09, 2014, 04:14:42 PM »
I'm afraid I couldn't resist the temptation to have a little more fun at Watt's expense, particularly whilst he's in the middle of blowing his own trumpet:  http://archive.is/rKvkt



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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #93 on: April 09, 2014, 07:20:43 PM »
I appear to have inadvertently offended a WUWT moderator, simply by mentioning the word "volume"  :'(

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Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #94 on: April 10, 2014, 01:58:12 AM »
Oh frabjous day!

Watts has called me a coward in public whilst simultaneously posting a link to my sea ice videos and admitting that he really ought to be showing some sea ice volume plots to his loyal readership:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #95 on: April 10, 2014, 09:53:40 AM »
Old aphorism from WW2 - you know you've hit your target when it blows up.
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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #96 on: April 10, 2014, 02:13:09 PM »
Not only do I condemn Watts, I'm willing to throw in some money in the hope that they'll construct a man in his place.

prometheus

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #97 on: April 10, 2014, 05:05:25 PM »
I'm really enjoying your interactions (as you've presented them here) with Watts and friends. I'm glad some people, including you, have the nerve to deal with those guys; I'm positively allergic to them. I have a hard time stomaching just visiting WUWT and other "skeptic" sites like that one, and won't even go near them anymore.

Is it just me, or was that disrespectful for him to call out your real name like that? Even if you have put it out there yourself on other sites, you chose to use a pseudonym on his and he just ignored that (it's a cool name too, btw, "Snow White." Very apropos.)

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #98 on: April 10, 2014, 07:21:45 PM »
I'm really enjoying your interactions (as you've presented them here) with Watts and friends.


You're very kind Prometheus. In this instance I really don't mind being "called out", disrespectful though it was. Apart from anything else it gives me good cause to discuss the reason for my "subterfuge". See for example my recent conversation with @theresphysics:

https://twitter.com/jim_hunt/statuses/454249457681330176

If you feel like "doing your bit" please do not hesitate to "retweet" anything that takes your fancy, or "like" the Facebook page, or comment on the blog etc. etc.

In the latest "shock news" from the denialosphere Watts has finally got around to releasing one of my ever helpful messages from his moderation queue. It contains this link:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/resources/arctic-sea-ice-graphs/

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: The Mail's Great White Arctic Sea Ice Con
« Reply #99 on: April 11, 2014, 12:09:52 PM »
The WUWT spam folder is working overtime this morning:

https://twitter.com/jim_hunt/statuses/454528790598025217
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein