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El Cid

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1450 on: August 25, 2023, 06:56:43 PM »
Watering TWICE a DAY?

Really?

I water deeply and rarely, like once or twice a week. That's quite enough for all plants

Bruce Steele

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1451 on: August 25, 2023, 09:23:22 PM »
If you have clay and lots of organic matter the soil can get heavy, retain too much moisture and lead to fungal issues, mold etc.  The other extreme is desert soil that is sandy and doesn’t retain water or nutrients. Fungus and mold aren’t an issue , nutrients and consistent moisture are.
 For palms in pots I use 1/2 perlite and 1/2 peat moss. Almost all nutrients are from added fertilizer and I have to water often. Palms are sensitive to root rot so I avoid organic matter and heavy soil that promote fungus. Vegetables need different soil and yes the same soil I use for palms I also use to start vegetable seedlings and apply fertilizer with the water. Greenhouse seedlings then move out into loam soils that combine clay, sand and organic but also hold water. Sun , spacing for air circulation and how you apply water then control unwanted mold but promote beneficial soil fungus.

etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1452 on: August 26, 2023, 07:45:14 AM »
Raised beds often require much more watering because the material used to fill it drains water much more than the soil.
Mine are in a greenhouse, which mean that the air is dryer than outside because of the extra degrees of the air, so it increases the drying of the soil when there is sun.
In the greenhouse, the soil is wind protected, so it can happen that the drying outside is more important.
Another issue I have regarding watering is that most neighbors downhill have basements that are fully underground with drainage between 3 and 4 meters underground. During the summer, I sometimes feel that I am watering their drainage.
Outside the greenhouse, I mostly add water once a week if the weather is dry and warm, excepted specific vegetables like tomatoes, zucchini, green peas...that require more water.
Theories about how much watering are as diverse as the soil we have in our gardens. The equilibrium is not easy to find.

kassy

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1453 on: August 26, 2023, 07:13:03 PM »
Quote
During the summer, I sometimes feel that I am watering their drainage.

This could well be true.

You could use a system that releases water slowly over time so drip drainage or you put in ollas.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1454 on: August 26, 2023, 07:41:22 PM »
Quote
During the summer, I sometimes feel that I am watering their drainage.

This could well be true.

You could use a system that releases water slowly over time so drip drainage or you put in ollas.
Thanks for the info. I didn't know how it was called, so couldn't search it on internet.
It is still expensive, but affordable.
For example https://ollas-lutton.fr/categorie-produit/offres-ollas-groupees/

KiwiGriff

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1455 on: September 03, 2023, 11:15:36 AM »
I have raised beds.
Lots of compost to build water retention and auto irrigation once per day at dusk. The potted plants on the deck are watered using variable drippers at the same time.  Coastal so the salt air can be drying.

BlackBerry is a  pest here. It is spread rapidly by birds  and forms large impenetrable clumps even in dense commercial pine forests .
I spot spray balckberry and gorse in the pasture with Metsulfuron-methyl glyphosate does not seem to work very well for our strains .    I am not sure if Metsulfuron-methyl is even allowed in the EU. In the orchard or gardens I just keep such woody weeds  cut right back and they eventually die off.
The neighbors on one side are using goats to control their blackberry.  Goats  are almost impossible to keep contained and once feral are hugely destructive to the native plants in the protected regenerating bush we back onto that have not evolved to cope with mammalian browsers. On the other side the absentee owner does not do any property maintenance  so he has plenty of patches that I  can raid for fruit in season if I feel like some.
   
1st crop of avocados this year with about thirty fruit on the two trees that flowered  a hass and Fuerte. Four trees  are showing flowers this year so from next year should have plenty to share around.
The other fruits coming on to spring are.
lemons  really good large fruit on both the lisborn and lemonade  (Citrus limon x Citrus reticulata)a possum took a liking to one of the trees and eat all the rind off every single fruit before I managed to  trap him.
Tangelo(Citrus reticulata  Citrus maxima)  has lots of fruit but the crop is very small I think not enough sun during our rainy summer last year.
Tahitian Lime good fruit but small crop this year .
 
 I also have an oddity in   finger lime Citrus australasica has  fruited  well and the flesh gives little bursts  of effervescent tangy flavour as they are chewed when added to salads and deserts.


   




« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 11:38:25 AM by KiwiGriff »
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morganism

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1456 on: September 03, 2023, 09:17:11 PM »
There is a pretty cool low tech drip system designed in Africa for hand watering.

Take a 5 gal bucket, drill a bulkhead attachment for hose fitting into base near bottom. (i used an evap cooler overflow fitting)

Use regular drip line (3/4 best) and lay it out w just a bit of drop to the endpoint. Plants that need most water at the end of run.

Now come back and screw drywall screws thru the pipe, just the tip of the screw should come out the far side. (do it when cool, so doesn't just stretch the far wall)

Work back from endpoint, unscew drywall screws so they drip a bit from that tiny tip hole.

You can add liquid fertilizer to bucket, or just leave a tree spike fert in it. Dump in some peroxide occasionally to fight microbes. you will have to adjust screws regularly, but you dont need hose pressure to run the system. They raise the buckets on bent rebar hangers.

Make sense? Can you visualize?




kassy

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1457 on: September 03, 2023, 10:22:46 PM »
They hand water into the bucket or is it the screw adjustment that makes it hand watering?
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

KiwiGriff

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1458 on: September 04, 2023, 07:59:19 AM »
Hand full the bucket.
The screw idea is good.
Same as the variable drippers I use means you can regulate the flow on the individual plant level.
I would suggest using stainless steel screws for a longer life.
Animals can be driven crazy by placing too many in too small a pen. Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
Notebooks of Lazarus Long.
Robert Heinlein.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1459 on: September 04, 2023, 07:36:03 PM »
If you have a hill nearby you can use gravity and a tank to deliver low pressure water supply.  Drip systems and drip tape plug up very quickly with the high alkalinity water we use. The drywall screws in the hdpe hose is a good one because you can open them up to get rid of calcium carbonate deposits that plug up everything else around here. Thanks for the tip Morgan.
 I am currently finishing up on a 1000 tank on a fifteen foot hill that will deliver low pressure water to trees that need the deep soaking drip can deliver. For me it is a energy saving project driven by the realization that my water pressure pump can be replaced for some types of  irrigation . A pressure pump turning on and off due to leaks or running a drip system uses lots of kW so my elevated tank can eliminate some of the energy costs for irrigation and serve as an emergency supply for livestock if needed . My solar/ batteries will run the pressure pump but saving your battery power during a blackout by switching livestock water and associated leaks to an elevated tank when power goes out on the grid will improve both energy savings and leave me less dependent on electricity for water when running on batteries.
 Running on battery in a blackout forces one to turn off or highly limit high energy uses like A/C , clothes drier, and the water pressure pump but you can run days or even weeks off grid with a powerwall( or two ) and some careful energy management. Just like taking up the challenge of feeding yourself for a month or two adjusting to solar/ battery requires sometimes adjustments 
but those adjustments are lessons about how we can learn to live on less. Learning to live on less is best learned rather than forced . So enjoy the little blackouts, the rare pangs of hunger, and some silence.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2023, 07:52:53 PM by Bruce Steele »

morganism

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1460 on: September 04, 2023, 11:37:35 PM »
If you do have a hill, you can use it for an orchard in the Israeli style.

Imagine a grid on it, now turn it 90^ so you have a diamond layout.
Run the drip line down one side of the diamond/V down as far as you are going to plant.
You will want the feed lines seperated by at least 15/20 ft, for the crown of your trees.
Go to the start of the next diamond/V and run the feed line down in parallel to the first. And again
You should Have parallel lines of hose running down the hill at a little less than 45^.
The top one will be a V soon, right now it will look  \\\\

If you take a string and cross the \\\ with string /// , you can figure out where you are going to dig the hole for the tree at the bottom of the Vdiamond now. Then you can insert some feed lines from the main drip line, or screws into the feed line about a meter above the bottom of V, and at the bottom of the V . Now you can rake down parrallel to the string lines, and cover the drip feed lines. You want to protect them from the sun, but you are going to channel all the water down to the apex of the V, in every diamond area.

Start raking any dirt/rocks/ loose top soil down to the bottom 2 legs of the V, you want to create a catchment for any rain that falls in the V/diamond at the bottom. Now figure the crown width of your tree will be at maturity, and plant it half that distance up from the bottom join of the V.
If the crown will be 12ft, dig the hole about 6 ft up from the bottom point of the V. In very dry areas, i would keep it at 6ft anyway, so it has better water supply as a starter.

Dig your hole there at that 6ft point. Make sure the sides aren't smooth, as that will cause root binding in dry lands. Put a fish in the bottom (kidding) and plant your tree seedling with a small basin to the down hill side. Prob a crescent shape. Rake any extra dirt from hole down into your V, you want to make the point of the V taller than the sides to hold as much rain as possible.

That is the Israeli design. In china, and US irrigation style they would cover the bottom apex of the V with plastic to keep it from eroding when it does rain hard. Its not a bad idea at the very base of the V, as it will overflow and erode when it rains hard, then you wont have a catchment any more.

In SW US, They put flat rocks on the inside of the V berm, (and the outside/downhill of the V) and fill the bottom of the V with gravels and more flat rocks. The flat rocks allow the rain to flow off their sides, and capture moisture underneath. That reduces re-evaporation, and allows it to sink into the ground, and cuts down on weed growing area.
 If you dump a bunch of organics or tree litter there, the water will just soak into the leaves and re-evaporate. Don't mulch with organics in drylands, unless you have drip lines underneath.

If you want to plant a ground cover on the arms of the V, to hold the dirt embankment steady, try looking for a Fuzzy Thyme. They are low water, bee friendly, and low growing. The whole thyme family also produces thymol, which is a topical anti-microbial.

You could also plant a rhizome freindly plant that matches your tree types, inoculating them for the long term.

I caught a case of skin MRSA from a gal who had been in India for a couple months. The thymol in a jar of marjorum oil was enough to kill it off, even after it had started to dig a crater in my skin. (pro tip) It burns for a while tho, don't put it on right out of the shower.
Thyme oil is crazy expensive, but the marjorum oil was cheap (online from India), cuz i think it is a cooking ingredient.
PS. marjourum makes a better pesto than basil too....

crude but the double angled lines are the embankment and the drip line, trees planted at base of diamonds.




etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1461 on: September 14, 2023, 08:44:19 PM »
There is a pretty cool low tech drip system designed in Africa for hand watering.

Take a 5 gal bucket, drill a bulkhead attachment for hose fitting into base near bottom. (i used an evap cooler overflow fitting)

Use regular drip line (3/4 best) and lay it out w just a bit of drop to the endpoint. Plants that need most water at the end of run.

Now come back and screw drywall screws thru the pipe, just the tip of the screw should come out the far side. (do it when cool, so doesn't just stretch the far wall)

Work back from endpoint, unscew drywall screws so they drip a bit from that tiny tip hole.

You can add liquid fertilizer to bucket, or just leave a tree spike fert in it. Dump in some peroxide occasionally to fight microbes. you will have to adjust screws regularly, but you dont need hose pressure to run the system. They raise the buckets on bent rebar hangers.

Make sense? Can you visualize?

Would you have some pictures or a link ? I'm not sure I get it completely. Thanks.

morganism

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1462 on: September 15, 2023, 01:42:45 AM »
here is some homework from Permies site...

http://www.nmia.com/~jaybird/AANewsletter/Grid%20Garden%20text%20page#anchor3741826

http://www.tinaja.com/tinsamp1.shtml

https://permies.com/t/58559/Big-Fat-Thread-Dryland-Farming

nitrogen fixing, rhizhomal, and deep tap roots for the alkaline desert, whats not to love ?

https://permies.com/t/26284/praise-Sainfoin

http://www.sainfoinseed.net/


ancient grid gardens of SW

https://permies.com/t/19463/permaculture/Ancient-grid-gardens-SWest

litho mulching

Gilbert, I mentioned a couple things about my experience with a little of this in the other thread this was mentioned in, but I'll do a quick summary plus a little additional here.

In terms of water sinking in, the rock and sand mulch was great. The ground stayed damp for a significantly longer time underneath, so that was a huge plus. It also had the unexpected benefit, when it came to rock, of preventing smaller critters from digging in to get things.

However, it also increased the reflected heat of the area. Not a problem for the cooler months of the year, but it was enough to damage plants when it got very hot. HOWEVER, this is simply for my area, which turns out to be about 10-15 F hotter, on average, than areas where rock or sand mulch was traditionally used (3 growing months of average temps over 95F, where I am).

In areas where I had shade, however, this problem did not occur. That included areas which had enough growth to cover the ground OVER the sand or rock (like squash) by the time the heat started to increase.

Re: the leaves on sand. This is something I've tried too (a little organic matter on top of the sand). The one challenge has been the wind. With dirt, some of the mulch on top would usually mix in a bit during watering and so have something to adhere to, but this doesn't happen with the sand. So unless it was piled on heavily like a mulch, most organic matter on the sand just blew right off whenever there was a good wind. I thought this wouldn't be a problem for the waffle garden but I ended up right in a kind of wind eddy and it still happened frequently unless I got a few rocks on top of that to weigh them down.

I'm really curious to hear how your garden experiment works, Gilbert. What's the average hot temperatures where you are? Do you think you'll have some extra challenges with that or are you in an area that's more in line with the temps of places where this was done in the past?


https://grf.bgu.ac.il/index.php/GRF/article/view/395/386


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_agriculture_in_the_Southwestern_United_States


(The hillside diamond idea is a type of run-on terrace, think rice paddie terraces .
Most stuff you will find is about Keyline swales, bunds (grass filled socks) to deflect and hold runoff .)

If i ever find my vector graphics program, will try to redraw and redescribe.

vox_mundi

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1463 on: October 04, 2023, 01:33:27 AM »
Pandora in your backyard ...

Startup to Begin Selling Bioluminescent Petunias in 2024
https://www.extremetech.com/science/startup-to-begin-selling-bioluminescent-petunias-in-2024



https://light.bio/

Idaho-based biotechnology startup, Light Bio, has officially received approval from the Department of Agriculture to sell genetically engineered, bioluminescent flowers here in the United States. Shipments are expected to start in early 2024.

Light Bio’s otherworldly products take inspiration from naturally bioluminescent insects, marine life, fungi, and other species. These glow when oxygen interacts with luciferin, the product of an enzyme called luciferase. This interaction is thought to produce energy that manifests in the form of light, resulting in that lit-from-inside effect we’ve come to love in fireflies and jellyfish.



https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/sa_by_date/sa-2023/rsr-light-bio-petunia



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Insensible before the wave so soon released by callous fate. Affected most, they understand the least, and understanding, when it comes, invariably arrives too late

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kassy

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1464 on: October 04, 2023, 04:11:14 PM »
What a weird idea.
Þetta minnismerki er til vitnis um að við vitum hvað er að gerast og hvað þarf að gera. Aðeins þú veist hvort við gerðum eitthvað.

El Cid

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1465 on: October 04, 2023, 09:24:47 PM »
What a weird idea.

My first thought reading the article:


etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1466 on: October 05, 2023, 07:31:24 PM »
I guess it was a proof of concept, and now somebody is trying to make money with it.

Back to gardening. last spring I let the lamb's lettuce make flower and seeds, during the summer I planted some chard, and now I have both with every little effort.  Quite useful, don't know how long I will be able to eat it, but the main ssue is that plants are too close to one another, so I have to pull out some quantity so that the other can grow.

etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1467 on: November 02, 2023, 09:03:06 PM »
My apple tree has apples and flowers at the same time. Don't know if apple trees can have flowers end of the fall.

morganism

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1468 on: November 17, 2023, 09:34:16 PM »
'It feels like I'm not crazy.' Gardeners aren't surprised as USDA updates key map
November 17, 2023

A newly updated government map has many of the nation's gardeners rushing online, Googling what new plants they can grow in their mostly warming regions.

It's called the U.S. Department of Agriculture's "plant hardiness zone map," and it's the national standard for gardeners and growers to figure out which plants are most likely to survive the coldest winter temperatures in their location.

This week the map got its first update in more than a decade, and the outlook for many gardens looks warmer. The 2023 map is about 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit warmer than the 2012 map across the contiguous U.S., says Chris Daly, director of the PRISM Climate Group at Oregon State University that jointly developed the map with the USDA.

Daly says the new map means about half the country has shifted into a new half zone and half hasn't. In some locations, people may find they can grow new types of flowers, fruits, vegetables and plants.

Many of the nation's gardeners are not surprised by the change.

"I have been stating all year long, 'This needs updating!'," says Megan London, a gardening consultant in Hot Springs, Arkansas, in a video she posted on Facebook. London has been gardening for 26-years, and she's seen her region warming.

In the new map, London's region in central Arkansas has moved from zone 7b to zone 8a. What that means for her is that she's now considering growing kumquats, mandarin oranges, and shampoo ginger, a tropical plant.

But London says that the excitement she and other gardeners have to grow new things is tempered by another feeling: concern about human-caused climate change.
(more)
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/17/1213600629/-it-feels-like-im-not-crazy-gardeners-arent-surprised-as-usda-updates-key-map

Alexander55

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1469 on: April 20, 2024, 02:09:23 PM »
Last year i had some leek seedlings left, and i placed a couple in a little pot. I did not pay much attention to them. They just got some water until september. And they started to grow. And a few months ago i was making the pots empty. With the idea they would be ruined. But they were still very fresh and juicy. Even today they are as juicy as they can be juicy. And i just left them outside. But protected from rain. So the soil in the pot is very dry. And the leek very fresh. How long do they stay fresh if you leave them on your land ? I' m doing an experiment this year. To put leek, onions, carrots and patatoes in a pot. To see if i can store them the same way. If somebody knows the answer ? The leek in the pot is thin, he got no fertiliser. So i have a few extra's besides compost. Egg shell powder, wood ash and nettle thee. If somebody has some advice for that ? I assume it will be harder to count on mother nature in a pot. If i am right i can use the nettle thee for everything as long they are young. And for everything with leafes you eat all the time ( salade , coal, brussel sprouts, spinase....) And for everything that grows below the surface it's better the chanse to wood ash whene they are not so young anymore. The wood ash would be better to grow the stuff below the surface. Instead of growing leafes ( carrot, onion.....)  I'm still not sure for what i can use the egg shell powder. There is plenty mixed stuff on the internet. All advice is welcome.

Bruce Steele

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1470 on: April 20, 2024, 09:25:14 PM »
Alexander, The egg shells have high pH so they are good to use to balance the acidity of pine needles when making compost. The calcium is also an important mineral especially for tomatoes. Helps prevent brown spot on the ripening tomatoes. Careful with wood ash. Use it sparingly . Yes it has potash which is beneficial but personal experience is that using too much isn’t a good thing. I don’t usually use compost tea , I just compost stuff and spread it where I want some help for my soil. Composting takes lots of raw material and reduces it to something like really good dirt, but the pile shrinks a lot . I get oak leaf delivered by the truckload from lawn care service when they have to chip fallen trees or trim for overhead power lines.
 Your leeks look like they can still grow some more. Not sure if I understand your question but yes you could combine leeks, carrots , celery ( maybe add some blanched stinging nettle tea )
for a delicious vegetable broth that can easily be frozen for use later. I would just store the potatoes someplace cool and dark till I needed them.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2024, 11:40:29 PM by Bruce Steele »

Alexander55

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1471 on: April 20, 2024, 09:57:04 PM »
That point is that i would not need a freezer to store them. The leeks are from last year. So i'm growing the onions , carrots, patatoes in pots to see if i can keep them until spring next year.  It looks like the soil in the pot keeps them fresh. Probably because they stayed dry. I try to use as less as possible , like with the wood ash. But like you can see , they stay thin without. So i will have to experiment plenty.  And see if i can keep everything good until the next growing season. Without a greenhouse there are maybe 5 to 6 months over here when you can grow nothing. For most things it's to cold.

etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1472 on: May 07, 2024, 07:13:27 PM »
World of slugs.

etienne

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Re: Gardening
« Reply #1473 on: May 09, 2024, 08:47:10 PM »
I decided myself for individual protection.
Hydrated lime works fine if it doesn't rain too much. It can also be used directly on the dirt, but my soil being neutral, I can't use too much of it.
It doesn't work too well for onions, pumkins... and I wonder what I will do if it keeps raining when the potatoes get bigger.