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sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1900 on: November 18, 2017, 06:47:06 AM »
Oooh, Salman doesn't want ALL the money. Now he is negotiating for 70%. Mebbe his torturers went too far and killed off a couple.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/saudi-officials-reportedly-offer-freedom-to-arrested-royals--in-exchange-for-70-percent-of-their-wealth.html

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gerontocrat

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1901 on: November 18, 2017, 10:31:56 AM »
Similarly: I just sold a bunch of stocks. Somehow I had some ABB stock, which is in that big components for fossil fuel energy business.
ABB are trying to develop the renewable side of their biznis. They designed and built those all electric Swedish ferries we talked about recently.
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sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1902 on: November 18, 2017, 09:14:48 PM »

numerobis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1903 on: November 18, 2017, 10:23:12 PM »
Similarly: I just sold a bunch of stocks. Somehow I had some ABB stock, which is in that big components for fossil fuel energy business.
ABB are trying to develop the renewable side of their biznis. They designed and built those all electric Swedish ferries we talked about recently.

Sure, and if they survive the switch they’ll grow in the future.

It’s like statoil, trying to get into offshore wind to recycle their decreasingly-useful offshore oil expertise. A promising way to pivot, but pivots are hard on startups — never mind large established companies.

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1904 on: November 19, 2017, 05:03:59 AM »
Salman now going after more businessment, probably from informatio gained by torture. More dangerously he is going after army commanders.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/17/saudis-expand-crackdown-with-arrest-of-military-officials-and-businessmen-wsj-reports.html

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1905 on: November 19, 2017, 09:45:57 PM »
Oil demand is going to hold about where it is for a number of years.  It's going to take some growth in EV production just to cancel out the annual growth in cars on the road.  Only after we reach that point will demand start to drop.

Oil stocks should fall to where they represent the profit to be made from (mostly) existing wells.  There should be no value given to future growth, there's no scenario that I can see leading to long term growth in demand.  I wouldn't sell into a massive price drop, there's likely to be some recovery after the industry adjusts to a lingering death and a modest stock price recovery once we're past the point at which everyone bolts for the door.

(If I had any oil stocks I'd probably get out first thing Monday morning.  But I'd check to see if the stampede had started.)

Oil prices won't fall too low.  The lowest cost providers will keep prices as high as possible as they can while still moving as much product as they can.  They'll price below the point that brings a lot of other providers in.

On the other hand, operating an EV will just get cheaper.  Mexico just signed a contract for a very large amount of new solar at $0.0177/kWh.  Less than two cents per kWh. And they had multiple companies submitting very low priced bids.   That means that it's now likely we can produce electricity from solar for five cents or less in places with only mediocre solar resources. 

It's simply going to get cheaper and cheaper to charge batteries.  Especially when we reach the point at which wind and solar are frequently producing enough electricity to meet 100% of demand.  If all we do is TOU pricing we'll see it possible to recharge for well under today's average retail cost.

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1906 on: November 22, 2017, 11:53:37 PM »

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1907 on: November 24, 2017, 03:08:29 AM »
Hariri not resigning after all.

Salman is scrounging now, just busted Mohammed Hussein Al Amoudi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hussein_Al_Amoudi

billionaire with assets predominantly in Ethopia.

I bet a lot of rich folk are catching the smuggler's dhows across the arabian sea to india, pakistan and sri lanka with all the gold, jewels and bearer bonds they can carry.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1908 on: November 24, 2017, 12:41:25 PM »
Hariri not resigning after all.

Salman is scrounging now, just busted Mohammed Hussein Al Amoudi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Hussein_Al_Amoudi

billionaire with assets predominantly in Ethopia.

I bet a lot of rich folk are catching the smuggler's dhows across the arabian sea to india, pakistan and sri lanka with all the gold, jewels and bearer bonds they can carry.

sidd
If the rumors of torture are true, those who were arrested probably don't have long to live, and the Man Who Would Be King, may follow along shortly.


Many of those arrested aren't only ridiculously wealthy, they also share political connections with some of the most powerful Americans of the past few decades. They didn't refer to Bandar Bin Sultan Al Saud as Bandar Bush for no good reason.


Is it possible that the torture, if true, is aimed at extracting enough information to allow the Pretender to the Throne to blackmail both the Bush Republicans and the Clinton Democrats? Could Trump have given the go ahead for such a program? What would Donald demand as payment if such a scenario proved to be true?



I've heard rumors that the Las Vegas Follies are somehow connected to these goings on, and that Las Vegas was actually a failed Saudi assassination attempt. 'Twould be nice if that fiasco could somehow be rationally explained.


Terry

numerobis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1909 on: November 24, 2017, 01:14:37 PM »
And I’ve heard rumors the Moon was made of green cheese.

TerryM

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1910 on: November 24, 2017, 02:34:28 PM »
And I’ve heard rumors the Moon was made of green cheese.


I love a well aged blue cheese, not so sure about the green stuff.


Any thoughts on what might be going on in the Kingdom at this time?


I'm not sure that the rumored torturing is of great importance, except to the victims of course. If someone kidnapped/imprisoned my rich uncle, then took away billions of what might have been mine to inherit, I'd probably grow to resent that someone, whether he'd slapped my dear uncle or not.
If those presently under arrest have wealthy or influential relatives, and I'm sure many do, our young upstart may never become an old upstart. My understanding is that Arabian families are quite tight knit and are want to take insults against the family far more seriously than we might.


I'd guess that the Prince has crossed the Rubicon and will return successful, or with his head topping a pole. I'm unsure which would be better.


The Vegas connection was through a video that surface showing very heavily armed gents escorting one of the Saudi royals through one of the casino's, supposedly on the night of the shooting. Apparently the floors directly above our lone gunman are owned by a Saudi who was in residence on that fateful night.
I lived in Vegas for decades, and I've seen some bizarre occurrences there. This is far stranger than anything I've ever been aware of.


Terry

Sigmetnow

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1911 on: November 24, 2017, 03:44:36 PM »
U.S. oil prices rise to two-year high on Keystone XL pipeline outage after oil spill last week

Quote
* Markets also supported by expected extension of OPEC output cuts

* Analysts say internal OPEC tensions could threaten collaboration

* Soaring U.S. oil production caps oil markets

* Unipec plans to double U.S. crude imports next year -president

SINGAPORE, Nov 24 (Reuters) - U.S. crude oil rose to a two-year high on Friday, as the shutdown of a major crude pipeline from Canada to the United States tightened North American markets.

Trading activity is expected to be very low on Friday due to the U.S. Thanksgiving holiday.

U.S. West Texas Intermediate (WTI) crude futures were at $58.56 a barrel at 0753 GMT, up 54 cents, or 0.9 percent from their last settlement. Prices had risen as far as $58.59 a barrel on Friday, the highest since July 1, 2015.
...
China's Unipec, the trading arm of Asia's largest oil refiner Sinopec 600028.SS , said on Friday that it would double the volume of crude oil it imports from the U.S. to around 12 million tonnes next year. urn:newsml:reuters.com:*:nL3N1NU1SB

But Richard Robinson, manager of the Ashburton Global Energy Fund, warned U.S. output growth could slow as operators struggle to get enough sand and water, both of which are needed in the shale production process, known as fracking.

"Logistics are a big bottleneck," he said.
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/us-oil-prices-rise-to-twoyear-high-on-keystone-pipeline-outage-20171124-00018
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numerobis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1912 on: November 24, 2017, 03:51:03 PM »
Why are you engaging in conspiracy theorizing?

An assassination attempt usually involves trying to kill a particular person, not shooting random people all over the place. Mass shootings in the US are so common they've become one of those reliable stories you can run on a slow news day. The far more parsimonious explanation is that the shooter wanted to be a mass shooter.

Salman has plenty of reason to play his games on his own. Trump's visit is when it started in earnest, but that's based on Trump announcing to the world that Salman could do pretty much whatever he wanted, and the US wouldn't do anything. Read history and you'll see plenty of cases of monarchs backstabbing each other, causing trouble in the weaker countries around them, and then shaking down the wealthy to pay for their kingdom's debts.

numerobis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1913 on: November 24, 2017, 07:02:11 PM »
Given current trends, I suspect we'll get a last hurrah of $100/barrel oil for a couple years as Saudi tears itself up and the slowdown of the past couple years in oil field development starts to bite. Then it'll crash.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1914 on: November 25, 2017, 01:06:59 AM »
South Dakota Warns It Could Revoke Keystone Pipeline Permit Over Oil Spill
Pipeline builder TransCanada is also getting pushback on the Keystone XL expansion, just approved in Nebraska. Native American tribes say they'll fight it.
Quote
South Dakota regulators said they could revoke TransCanada's permit for the 7-year-old Keystone Pipeline if an investigation into a large oil spill discovered last week concludes the company violated its terms. If that happens, the company would have to correct any issues—in the worst case, even replace part of the pipeline—before oil shipments could resume.

The scrutiny comes as more challenges emerge to the company's recently approved expansion of its pipeline system: the Keystone XL.

On Nov. 16, TransCanada reported that 210,000 gallons, or 5,000 barrels, of oil had spilled from its existing Keystone Pipeline near Amherst, South Dakota, and that it had shut down the pipeline in response. It was the third major spill in the region for the pipeline, which began operations in 2010.

"What concerns me personally is the number of leaks that have taken place in a short period of time," Gary Hanson, vice chairman of the South Dakota Public Utilities Commission, said. "With a pipe as young as it is, this is very disconcerting."

Hanson is one of three commissioners on the South Dakota Public Utilities Commission. All three have said that any violation of the company's construction and operation permit could result in a temporary suspension or cancellation of the pipeline permit.  The U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration (PHMSA) is also investigating the cause of the spill and will have to approve any restart of the pipeline.
...
TransCanada has yet to disclose the type of oil involved in the recent spill, although the Keystone pipeline primarily transports diluted bitumen or tar sands crude oil, which is exceedingly difficult to clean up if it enters waterways.

The company had removed over 24,000 gallons of oil using vacuum and excavation equipment as of Wednesday, Cunha said.

More Challenges for Keystone XL Expansion

Four days after the spill was reported, the Nebraska Public Service Commission granted a key approval for the Keystone XL pipeline, though not for the company's preferred route through the state.

The change in route means TransCanada will face new regulatory hurdles and legal challenges and will have to secure easements from a new group of landowners. ...
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/22112017/south-dakota-oil-pipeline-spill-keystone-xl-rosebud-cheyenne-river-sioux-nebraska
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1915 on: November 25, 2017, 05:33:36 AM »

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1916 on: November 28, 2017, 06:42:55 AM »

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1917 on: November 28, 2017, 06:47:31 AM »
Keystone leaks all the time, far more than predicted before construction. Colour me unsurprised.

"The existing 2,147-mile (3,455 km) Keystone system from Hardisty, Alberta, to the Texas coast has had three significant leaks in the United States since it began operating in 2010, including a 5,000-barrel spill this month in rural South Dakota, and two others, each about 400 barrels, in South Dakota in 2016 and North Dakota in 2011.

Before constructing the pipeline, TransCanada provided a spill risk assessment to regulators that estimated the chance of a leak of more than 50 barrels to be “not more than once every seven to 11 years over the entire length of the pipeline in the United States,” according to its South Dakota operating permit.

For South Dakota alone, where the line has leaked twice, the estimate was for a “spill no more than once every 41 years.” 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-pipeline-keystone-spills/keystones-existing-pipeline-spills-far-more-than-predicted-to-regulators-idUSKBN1DR1CS

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Tor Bejnar

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1918 on: November 28, 2017, 07:29:49 PM »
Proof that time goes faster these days!  ::)
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sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1919 on: November 29, 2017, 06:19:20 AM »
Salman settling for what he can get. A billion for Miteb to walk. Lowered the total expected take to a 100 billion, but i doubt he will get there.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-28/saudi-prince-released-after-1-billion-settlement-official-says

Letting Miteb go might come back to bite him. The guy was head of the National Guard and has family with decades of patronage alliances.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1920 on: November 29, 2017, 04:30:04 PM »
The GOP has added legislation to allow drilling in ANWR to the Senate's tax code overhaul bill.

Title: "Democrats worry Arctic National Wildlife Refuge being lost amid tax debate"

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/29/arctic-national-wildlife-refuge-267819

Title: "The prospect of drilling in the untouched Alaskan tundra is as close to reality as it's been in more than a decade, with none of the political drama that in past decades turned the refuge's fate into a top-tier rallying cry for liberals. Legislation to allow drilling in ANWR is quietly hitching a ride on the tax code overhaul that Senate Republicans hope to complete by the end of the week, overshadowed by larger debates on whether the bill is a giveaway to rich people and corporations at the expense of the poor and working class."
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1921 on: November 29, 2017, 05:17:52 PM »
Yes.....the GOP has a few surprises in their tax cut legislation.  Drilling in Anwar is just one of the more brazen issues.  Of course.....Hillary probably would have done that too. 😉
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Neven

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1922 on: November 29, 2017, 05:29:48 PM »
No, Hillary would've pushed the fracking route, while bombing the hell out of the Middle East. Slightly less evil.
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1923 on: November 29, 2017, 06:05:29 PM »
Donnie already has.....

1). Fracking on steroids
2). Trying to bring back coal
3). Pushed through the Keystone Pipeline (nice leak there too.....thanks)
4). Looks to be pushing for an attack on Iran with his and Jarred's buddies in Saudi Arabia

Looks as though Donnie has ALL the bases covered.  Well done Donnie....  Even Hillary couldn't have done so much evil in such a short time.....
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1924 on: November 29, 2017, 06:41:00 PM »
I see a lot of "don't confuse me with facts" in these absolute condemnations from abroad. Here's a more accurate review of what really happened. Please go to the end.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/apr/13/bernie-s/does-hillary-clinton-support-fracking/

Quote
A portrait of regulated extraction

Clinton’s three conditions would uphold existing bans and add new ones to the mix. But they wouldn’t amount to a universal ban.

The first condition leaves local and state bans in place, such as those in Vermont, New York and a few dozen cities and counties across America.

Her second condition would add dozens of sites that have methane emissions or water contamination.

Natural gas is primarily methane, so we’ll assume Clinton is talking about "fugitive emissions" or leaks. Estimates for fugitive emissions, typically expressed as a percentage of the total production, vary widely. A round up of studies by watchdog blog Carbon Brief found estimates ranging from 0.6 to 9 percent (the threshold for being cleaner than coal is 3.2 percent).

Various industry and independent research has indicated that a good chunk of leaks come from a small number of "super-emitters" (roughly one in 25 facilities, according to a 2015 Colorado State University study). Clinton could ostensibly shut down these methane spewers, which include, for example, about 50 production sites in northern Texas and four lift wells in the Gulf Coast.

Water contamination is not systemic, according to a controversial 2015 EPA study, which nonetheless identified 151 cases of fracking fluid spills in 11 states from 2006 to 2012. Robert Howarth, a noted critic of fracking and biogeochemist at Cornell University, estimates at least 4 percent of production wells pollute water, but contends that the problem is widespread given the sheer number of wells.

Under Clinton’s condition, fracking could be banned in, for example, at least 25 counties in Pennsylvania and at least 12 counties in Colorado, if not in all 11 states with noted cases of spills.

Frackers are already meeting Clinton’s third condition, to an extent. At least 26 states have some rules on chemical disclosure on the books, though most allow frackers to protect "trade secrets," according to the American Chemical Society.

In addition, the Obama administration now requires drillers on federal and tribal lands to report the composition of their fracking fluid to FracFocus, an industry-backed registry of more than 100,000 wells across America. (Here’s an example.)

Environmentalists contend that these rules are not nearly enough. Howarth told PolitiFact that chemical additives are "a small part of the problem."

"The frack return fluids are full of really nasty materials in addition to the additives, and the precise nature of this toxic brew is seldom known," he said. "Clinton's focus on just the additives is misguided."

That being said, Clinton’s condition could ban fracking in Virginia and Missouri, two states with fracking activity but no disclosure rules in place at the time of this report.

Here’s a map that shows how Clinton’s conditions could affect fracking in America:

Our ruling

Sanders said that Clinton supported and continues "to support fracking."

As secretary of state, Clinton supported and promoted fracking around the world. As a 2016 candidate, her support comes with conditions such as local choice, stronger environmental regulation and chemicals.

Sanders’ claim is accurate but needs additional information. We rate it Mostly True.

The map is useful but I haven't attempted to link it as it's not just a simple graphic.

As to bombing, here again is a check on what actually happened: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/07/27/fact-check-clintons-record-state-department-during-middle-east-chaos/87582276/

I remember a summary that resonated with me:

We intervened in Iraq: result bloody mess
We tried to help in Libya: result bloody mess
We stayed out of Syria: result bloody mess

There are no good answers.

Personally, I'm against Clinton's past support for fracking, and think she learned the hard way that there are no good military options, but the blanket statements above are not worthy of someone capable of taking in the full spectrum of information.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1925 on: November 29, 2017, 07:19:53 PM »
No, Hillary would've pushed the fracking route, while bombing the hell out of the Middle East. Slightly less evil.

Neven, I believe you have a very twisted opinion of Hillary Clinton.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1926 on: November 29, 2017, 07:31:42 PM »
To intervene or not to intervene.  So easy to form an opinion after the fact.

Had the US not intervened in World War II what would Europe look like today? 

Had the US not intervened in Korea would there now be a South Korea?  A Japan?

How bad would the slaughter have been in Eastern Europe had the US not intervened?  Would the conflict have spread westward?

Can one make the right call going in?  It's very hard, not everything can be known or predicted. 

When the French and British government asked the US to assist with Libya should the US have told them to go it on their own and let the Libyan government continue to kill its citizens?

Did the US do the right thing by not going to the assistance of people who were slaughtered in other conflicts? 

Why are some people willing to sit back and watch others be slaughtered?




Neven

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1927 on: November 29, 2017, 09:00:27 PM »
Neven, I believe you have a very twisted opinion of Hillary Clinton.

Sorry for not wholly accepting the mainstream narrative. If I did, I would probably also believe that the USA engages in war to bring freedom and democracy to the world.

Why am I not allowed to be both against Trump and Clinton? Why do I, as a non-American, still have to choose between the two, knowing that neither will lead to real solutions that deal with AGW?

Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.
The enemy is within
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1928 on: November 29, 2017, 09:32:27 PM »
Speaking of "mainstream narrative".... Neven, I never did get your answer to my question of "how many hours of mainstream US television on CNN, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and ABC do you watch per week?"  Unless you answered it and I missed it somehow.

You talk quite often about the "mainstream media"... and I am curious as to how much you watch directly each week.

Other than watching a little BBC from time-to-time....I know very little about the European press...either mainstream or other.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 10:19:53 PM by Buddy »
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1929 on: November 29, 2017, 10:11:25 PM »
Neven, I believe you have a very twisted opinion of Hillary Clinton.

Sorry for not wholly accepting the mainstream narrative. If I did, I would probably also believe that the USA engages in war to bring freedom and democracy to the world.

Why am I not allowed to be both against Trump and Clinton? Why do I, as a non-American, still have to choose between the two, knowing that neither will lead to real solutions that deal with AGW?

Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.

Sometimes the US does engage in war to bring freedom democracy.  Is there a clearer example than WWII? 

Sometimes the US does evil as in the invasion of Iraq.  The people who lied us into war (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) should have been tried as war criminals.

Not everything fits in the same bucket. Name a country that has done only good or only bad throughout their history.

If you are actually concerned about climate change (or world peace or equal rights or more equal distribution of wealth or a number of other issues) then you must be pro-Clinton and anti-Trump.  Those were the only two choices.

It's easy to imagine a "better" candidate than Clinton but it's not possible to name one who could have won.  (And don't bring up Bernie.  He's a shouter, not a doer.)

"Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists."

No, either you support the best option or you enable the worst option.


Neven

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1930 on: November 29, 2017, 10:51:58 PM »
Speaking of "mainstream narrative".... Neven, I never did get your answer to my question of "how many hours of mainstream US television on CNN, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and ABC do you watch per week?"  Unless you answered it and I missed it somehow.

You talk quite often about the "mainstream media"... and I am curious as to how much you watch directly each week.

Other than watching a little BBC from time-to-time....I know very little about the European press...either mainstream or other.

I watched it for 75% of my life. I worked in it as a translator and saw how it was made. Around 10 years ago I stopped watching most of it, and since then invest my time in reading/watching investigative reporting and in-depth analysis. You hardly get any of that in mainstream media. Mainstream media is about ratings for ads for money from large corporations, presented by out-of-touch millionaires. There is a certain narrative, and if you deviate from it, you're out of business. That means you can't have analysts on that speak truth to power (people like Chomsky, Klein, McKibben, etc), or at least not too often or by themselves (have one or two other 'reasonable' speakers).

When I have time, I watch sources like Democracy Now, The Real News Network or The Young Turks. Places where war is denounced, where AGW is discussed in depth and rationally, where everything that is wrong is discussed (and not silenced because the other team is saying it too), in short: where truth is spoken to power.

If you disagree, that's fine, but the only time when I watch mainstream media, is when it is being discussed, because it's mostly unreliable, manipulative and geared towards protecting the status quo (making the mountains of concentrated wealth bigger).

You might find that unreasonable, but if I had been reasonable, I would have never started blogging about Arctic sea ice or set up this forum. 'Reasonable' isn't going to cut it, and so I'm against BOTH Trump AND Clinton, and anything else the system throws at us to keep our eyes off the ball.

There's your answer, so now you can go: 'You don't watch mainstream media, do you? That means you don't know what you talk about. I win.'
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sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1931 on: November 29, 2017, 11:00:12 PM »
"No, either you support the best option or you enable the worst option."

As neven said, that's similar to "either you are with us or you support the terrorists." Some of us dont think in binaries.

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magnamentis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1932 on: November 29, 2017, 11:00:51 PM »
Sometimes the US does engage in war to bring freedom democracy.  Is there a clearer example than WWII? 

just replace the word "does with the word "did" in that sentence and keep does for the sentence thereafter "iraq  etc. and we get close to how things ARE. the time when the U.S. did intervene for the right purpose are "PAST" and now and for the last couple of decades intervened for "commodities" and other not so sound reasons.

then we can look further back and analyze what the "U.S", then "colonists" intervened for, namely to kill all bisons and steal the land from the indians.

of course that's all a bit flat but more details would be TLTR and then anyways only make it look worse.

it also has to be mentioned that all this started with british colonial interests. those were financed mostly with the gold and other commondites stolen by the brits from the spanish beforehand and they again stole it from the inkas.

and so on, and so on, however there is very little sound intervention in history from all invaders and not much has changed ever since.

last but not least WWII was not FOR something but AGAINST something, which again is a difference, it was agains nazi germany, adolf hitler a few allies and it was in parts self defence which is not the same motive like bringing freedom to the people. it then is a collateral benefit at best.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1933 on: November 29, 2017, 11:18:11 PM »
No, either you support the best option or you enable the worst option.

No, I'm going to fight for an option that gives my daughter and all the children in the world the best chances. Of course, in a plutocracy this option will not be presented. That means it is crucial that a large enough percentage of the population is (made) aware that this is so. Only then is room created for more options than 'evil' and 'lesser evil'. This doesn't happen if you act as if the plutocracy doesn't exist, and people just need to shut up about it and choose the lesser evil, ad infinitum.

We simply cannot afford it.

Quote
Sometimes the US does engage in war to bring freedom democracy.  Is there a clearer example than WWII? 

Sometimes the US does evil as in the invasion of Iraq.  The people who lied us into war (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc.) should have been tried as war criminals.

Not everything fits in the same bucket. Name a country that has done only good or only bad throughout their history.

I'm talking about now, right now. Practically all political representatives in the US voted for a defense budget of what, 700 billion dollars (more than Trump asked for, I don't know how much more than the last one)? No debates, nothing.

And for what? See the title of this thread to go back on-topic again. The US army is doing the bidding of the mountain of concentrated wealth, by stealing resources from other nations.

And mainstream media is either pushing that, cheering it on, or doesn't talk about it.

Why on Earth are we even discussing this? Why are we so afraid and cowardly?

WE CAN'T AFFORD IT! THERE IS NO MORE TIME FOR LITTLE STEPS.

Use Trump to take that big step. Only then will all of it have been useful, and we may come further than we would have with Clinton.

At some point you guys are going to have to accept that I'm against Trump AND Clinton AND Obama AND Bush.
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1934 on: November 29, 2017, 11:27:52 PM »
Speaking of "mainstream narrative".... Neven, I never did get your answer to my question of "how many hours of mainstream US television on CNN, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, and ABC do you watch per week?"  Unless you answered it and I missed it somehow.

You talk quite often about the "mainstream media"... and I am curious as to how much you watch directly each week.

Other than watching a little BBC from time-to-time....I know very little about the European press...either mainstream or other.


Sorry to jump in, but I watched ~1/2 hour of American MSM two weekends ago while at a symposium.
Either I'm suffering from euphoric recall, or American television is much worse than it was a mere 13 years ago.


The leering, smirking hosts, over acting/reacting to each tidbit.
The monosyllabic texts they read from used to be aimed at something like the 6th grade audience. They now seem to be aimed at uneducated 6 year olds who flunked their 1st grade tests.


I hollered. I swore. I giggled. I laughed. My wife turned off the set.
To say I was unimpressed would be a huge understatement.


I watched one cartoonishly dumb blond demonstrate how socks could be stored inside shoes when traveling. The even dumber blond caricature acted as if her bright counterpart had just discovered perpetual motion, or perhaps had just explained the theory of relativity. Her jaw dropped, her eyes bulged, and she silently mimed a gigantic OOHHH.


The newscasters were equally in either horror, fascination or adoration as each bit of "news" was breathlessly announced. Sesame Street without diapers.


A cartoon channel, a kids show, a "reality" show and a Made for TV drama all complemented the newscast.


What ever happened to Cronkite?
Terry

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1935 on: November 30, 2017, 12:08:05 AM »
I'm sorry for being an idiot, but that's just who I am and I'm aware of it.
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1936 on: November 30, 2017, 12:24:08 AM »
"I am sorry for being an idiot ..."

Welcome to the club. We are all idiots, each in our own way.

" ... and I'm aware of it."

First step to wisdom ...

sidd

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1937 on: November 30, 2017, 12:29:43 AM »
"I am sorry for being an idiot ..."

Welcome to the club. We are all idiots, each in our own way.

" ... and I'm aware of it."

First step to wisdom ...

sidd
Ramen!!
The FSM should have addressed just this issue, have to assume he was drunk.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1938 on: November 30, 2017, 02:58:01 AM »
I'm sorry for being an idiot, but that's just who I am and I'm aware of it.

You are not an idiot.  But you have staked out a naive, unworkable position.

The only way to move things forward is by gaining the cooperation of a majority and making steps toward the goal.  (Unless you dream of a very small super-army that moves the world forward by force.)

I probably share the same goals as you and all the other self-labeled "progressives".  The same goals.

But I've watch changes for over a half century and I see that if you don't move the general populace to your position you will not create lasting change. 

Stake out a more extreme position and be unwilling to compromise and you will accomplish nothing except to frustrate yourself.  You have to figure out how to push the Zeitgeist which involves making the next societal goal not too hard and not too scary. 


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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1939 on: November 30, 2017, 03:18:02 AM »
Do you think they’ll be any more successful than Shell?

Italian Oil Company Passes Last Hurdle to Start Drilling in U.S. Arctic Waters
Eni's federal permit is the first since Shell’s failed attempt. Hilcorp also wants to drill offshore, and Congress could open the wildlife refuge to drilling.
Quote
The Trump administration has issued the first permit to drill in federal waters of the U.S. Arctic since Shell's failed attempt ended in 2015.

As soon as December, the Italian oil company Eni could begin drilling exploratory wells on a lease that was set to expire at the end of the year. ...
https://insideclimatenews.org/news/29112017/arctic-oil-drilling-ocean-eni-beaufort-sea-trump-federal-permit
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1940 on: November 30, 2017, 04:34:01 AM »
I think if they go forward they'll lose their butts.

There's more than enough oil at $50/barrel or less to cover demand.  I really don't think there's any chance of bringing new supply online for less than $50.

It would take a few years to establish some wells and set up the transportation system.  By then we could easily see demand flagging.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1941 on: November 30, 2017, 04:41:55 PM »
Jaguar has announced that ALL of its models will be offered in either hybrid or electric by 2020.  And this continued push into electric cars will become even more of a "mad dash" towards electric.  By 2025....with the continued drop in solar costs and battery cost.....the electric tide will be overwhelming.  There will NOT be an economic reason to buy an ICE car in the US after 2025.....OR SOONER.

That long term picture is causing oil investors to pause.....and causing Saudi Aramco to push out there IPO in 2018 even in a weak oil market.  The other uses for oil are not going away....but the reason for oil used in ground transportation will go away much faster than most realize.
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1942 on: November 30, 2017, 06:31:39 PM »
I think if they go forward they'll lose their butts.

If they don't they lose their lease. Even if the probability of success is low, they'll likely want to make sure they maintain the lease, just in case we discover batteries can't work or whatever.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1943 on: November 30, 2017, 06:54:23 PM »
So they lose a worthless lease.

Batteries clearly work.  EVs are clearly going to be less expensive to own than ICEVs.  Electricity is clearly going to become less expensive.

A company that can't understand that is in deep denial and is risking its future.  It's time to stop spending on exploration.  Sell what you've got as long as you've got it.  And morph into a new type of business like Statoil has done.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1944 on: November 30, 2017, 07:15:42 PM »
....and like Total (French energy company)...
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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1945 on: November 30, 2017, 07:50:40 PM »
What does seem to be impermissible here is to have a nuanced long view on Hillary Clinton and the mainstream Democratic party. My first political experience was supporting my parents who loved Adlai Stevenson and condemned Eisenhower. I lived through Reagan, which was a total shock to the system. I lived through the triangulations of a president stuck with an oppositional congress who managed to do his best (Clinton) and my disgust at him throwing it all away for sexual adventures all too characteristic of men in power. I desperately desired Gore to be president (and he actually did win by any fair standard) and am furious with Clinton's permanent damage to my party. I lived through Bush II (my young German dorm mates in a hostel in Cornwall blamed me for him, seemingly unaware of their own history).

Liberal, Democrat, Progressive, so many of us have stood for so long for the same thing. My mother was a Democratic Committee Chairwoman in New Jersey through some of this. She fought and with her friends prevented a jetport being imposed on our Great Swamp in New Jersey.

Principled Democrats with real ideals have learned that we have to go on fighting, and we don't want to cannibalize ourselves with civil wars. Hillary was one such principled person, somewhat worn by the norms of upper echelon politics and the Davos style of wealth, but always fighting for the good with few exceptions, of which I think fracking is one. But in the early days it was easy to think that fracking might be an improvement. I've already addressed the no good options part of militarism. I think men don't realize that women have to be harder than perhaps they should be in a men's world. Our Elizabeth Warren does a much better job of it, she's more appealing. I think it's her Cherokee blood!

As for calling people idiots and suchlike, PLEASE JUST STOP! Nobody will listen to someone who calls them a flat-earther either. We need everybody, not just the purest of the pure. We need something like 80% of the population if we're to get through this thing. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-idiotic-not-to-believe-in-climate-change/answer/Susan-Anderson-35

Working together to solve problems is the only way.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1946 on: November 30, 2017, 09:33:55 PM »
What does seem to be impermissible here is to have a nuanced long view on Hillary Clinton and the mainstream Democratic party. My first political experience was supporting my parents who loved Adlai Stevenson and condemned Eisenhower. I lived through Reagan, which was a total shock to the system. I lived through the triangulations of a president stuck with an oppositional congress who managed to do his best (Clinton) and my disgust at him throwing it all away for sexual adventures all too characteristic of men in power. I desperately desired Gore to be president (and he actually did win by any fair standard) and am furious with Clinton's permanent damage to my party. I lived through Bush II (my young German dorm mates in a hostel in Cornwall blamed me for him, seemingly unaware of their own history).

Liberal, Democrat, Progressive, so many of us have stood for so long for the same thing. My mother was a Democratic Committee Chairwoman in New Jersey through some of this. She fought and with her friends prevented a jetport being imposed on our Great Swamp in New Jersey.

Principled Democrats with real ideals have learned that we have to go on fighting, and we don't want to cannibalize ourselves with civil wars. Hillary was one such principled person, somewhat worn by the norms of upper echelon politics and the Davos style of wealth, but always fighting for the good with few exceptions, of which I think fracking is one. But in the early days it was easy to think that fracking might be an improvement. I've already addressed the no good options part of militarism. I think men don't realize that women have to be harder than perhaps they should be in a men's world. Our Elizabeth Warren does a much better job of it, she's more appealing. I think it's her Cherokee blood!

As for calling people idiots and suchlike, PLEASE JUST STOP! Nobody will listen to someone who calls them a flat-earther either. We need everybody, not just the purest of the pure. We need something like 80% of the population if we're to get through this thing. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-idiotic-not-to-believe-in-climate-change/answer/Susan-Anderson-35

Working together to solve problems is the only way.
Nicely put :)
Can we find a way to include Russia and China in this problem solving group? Otherwise the future looks bleak indeed.
Terry

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1947 on: November 30, 2017, 09:36:19 PM »
Thanks, Susan. 

And to get anything done we need enough people working together, a critical mass.  There aren't enough people in the extremes of any position.

We have to form large voting blocks and accept the need to compromise to some extent. 

Liberal, Democrat, Progressive.  Create a list of goals from each group and you'll find almost total agreement.  All of these groups want equality for all, a government that helps and supports us, and a government that protects us from external and internal dangers.

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1948 on: November 30, 2017, 09:40:09 PM »
Quote
Can we find a way to include Russia and China in this problem solving group?

China is working harder on clean energy and electrifying transportation than most other countries.  At some point they will have to deal with personal freedoms.

Russia?  Like North Korea, Russia might be a lost cause for the near future.

Russia is likely to come around some once they lose their oil and NG incomes.  With ever improving technology and communications North Korea is likely to implode as people better understand the raw deal they are getting.

magnamentis

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Re: Oil and Gas Issues
« Reply #1949 on: November 30, 2017, 10:35:15 PM »
"I am sorry for being an idiot ..."

Welcome to the club. We are all idiots, each in our own way.

" ... and I'm aware of it."

First step to wisdom ...

sidd

you say it  while i prefer the word ignorant (stupid( over the word "idiot" when it comes to terms. idiots are not able to recognize there ignorance and stupid behaviours while stupid, at least as far as my english allows, is another a way to describe ignorance and ignorance in the meaning of a lack of knowledge can be worked on by learning, while about idiocy there is not much one can do except to hope for a more favorable rebirth, be it as a lesser or no idiot or as an entity where it does not matter ;)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 10:43:52 PM by magnamentis »