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JimD

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Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« on: January 19, 2016, 06:12:24 PM »
Interesting.

http://robertscribbler.com/2016/01/18/did-a-january-hurricane-just-set-off-a-massive-greenland-melt-event-in-winter/

Quote
...Dr Jason Box notes that surface mass balance totals have consistently shown up as negative over the past week in the DMI measure. A record that continued today. Though Dr. Box states that such a negative mass balance could simply be chalked up to wintertime sublimation, the consistent losses showing up in the monitor over the past seven days have coincided temperatures in a melt-inducing range.

In addition, Dr Box also indicates a disturbing flushing of ice away from both Disko and Uummannaq Bays occurring on January 16th. In the satellite shot, both sea ice and ice burgs are moved en-mass from the bays and on out into the waters of Baffin.....

Sediment hitting water in this way would be a sign that a very large volume of water had been expelled along the basal zones of the Jacobshavn. In addition, the ice itself appears to have been forcibly ejected. ...

« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 10:57:02 AM by Neven »
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Jim Hunt

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Re: 2016 Greenland Melt
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 06:17:18 PM »
Have you by any chance seen this Jim, on this very forum?

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,154.msg68482.html#msg68482

Quote
There has been a large outflow of meltwater into Disko Bay and Uummannaq.  I alerted Mauri Pelto, Alun Hubbard and Jason Box during the wee hours this morning.  They're having a look at it, and Mauri has already done a very nice blog post.

or this (he says modestly)?

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1377.msg68572.html#msg68572

Quote
Temperatures in Southern Greenland [the day before] yesterday were on a par with those in Soggy South West England. The winds were somewhat stronger up there though!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

JimD

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Re: 2016 Greenland Melt
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 03:45:50 AM »
Nice.  You could have started a new thread.

I actually looked for something on it but did not find your post.
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Neven

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 10:57:47 AM »
Jim, I've adjusted your title to match this one from last year.
Il faut comparer, comparer, comparer, et cultiver notre jardin

Jim Hunt

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Re: 2016 Greenland Melt
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 11:34:44 AM »
Nice.  You could have started a new thread.

Now why didn't I think of that!

Cross posting from elsewhere, note the persistent easterly winds and 7 °C temperatures in Ilulissat yesterday.



Meanwhile here in Soggy South West England the frosts have arrived:

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one - Albert Einstein

JimD

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 06:10:01 PM »
It is only a matter of time until Greenland lives up to its name ::)
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

jdallen

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 07:13:47 PM »
Interesting.

http://robertscribbler.com/2016/01/18/did-a-january-hurricane-just-set-off-a-massive-greenland-melt-event-in-winter/

Quote
...Dr Jason Box notes that surface mass balance totals have consistently shown up as negative over the past week in the DMI measure. A record that continued today. Though Dr. Box states that such a negative mass balance could simply be chalked up to wintertime sublimation, the consistent losses showing up in the monitor over the past seven days have coincided temperatures in a melt-inducing range.

In addition, Dr Box also indicates a disturbing flushing of ice away from both Disko and Uummannaq Bays occurring on January 16th. In the satellite shot, both sea ice and ice burgs are moved en-mass from the bays and on out into the waters of Baffin.....

Sediment hitting water in this way would be a sign that a very large volume of water had been expelled along the basal zones of the Jacobshavn. In addition, the ice itself appears to have been forcibly ejected. ...



Per our own A-Team, here:
http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,154.msg68660.html#msg68660

Robert may have jumped the gun a bit.  There does not appear to be any evidence of rainfall sufficient to cause the event.
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solartim27

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 08:47:57 PM »
Is starting a little early, or perhaps it did not snow much?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 09:06:36 PM by solartim27 »
FNORD

JimD

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 04:33:21 PM »
This seems kind of interesting.

Image is accumulated anomaly Sep 1 2015 to Feb 22 2016.

Interestingly enough it is dead on Mean even though we have had all that incredible warmth flowing up the Atlantic.  But the contrast between the east and west sides is stark.  I do not know if this east west thing is normal or not.  Anyone?

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How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 05:30:55 PM »
I wish the graph on the bottom was labeled correctly.  The title suggests it goes into 2016, but the legend suggests it shows data up to a year ago... :'(
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oren

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 08:19:33 PM »
To my layman's eyes it looks like it's been snowing a lot, while the glaciers have been flowing especially JH and the glaciers up north on the west coast. Kind of what I would expect with AGW.
I'm just not sure what the map actually shows - departure from average for this period (which would make this quite significant), or simply the accumulated changes (which could make this perfectly normal).

JimD

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 08:29:40 PM »
Ahh I had not noticed the scale in the bottom of the graph - that is a bit confusing.

I guess the warm air flowing up the Atlantic between Greenland and Europe would result in the much heavier accumulations on the East Greenland mainland due to the extra moisture?

But has the cold been below normal and the air drier on the West Greenland mainland to cause the big shortfall on that side?

We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

RaenorShine

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 08:42:48 PM »
Jim,

The accumulated anomaly has been in that sort of position for the last couple of years.

You can access the historic graphs on polar portal (DMI's Sister site displaying the same model) by playing about with the URL (images go back to 2012)

For the Image :
http://polarportal.dk/fileadmin/polarportal/surface/SMB_map_LA_acc_EN_20150222.png
http://polarportal.dk/fileadmin/polarportal/surface/SMB_map_LA_acc_EN_20140222.png
etc

For the Graph (labelled correctly ;0):

http://polarportal.dk/fileadmin/polarportal/surface/SMB_curves_LA_EN_20150222.png
http://polarportal.dk/fileadmin/polarportal/surface/SMB_curves_LA_EN_20140222.png
etc

This is not normal though, as this is an anomaly plot these past couple of years are out of the ordinary.

My understanding is that Greenland is getting more precipitation in the South East for much the same reasons as NE USA is getting Snowmageddon, the warm Atlantic waters and a stuck jet stream.

The North West has seen far less precipitation than normal leaving the average 'on track'.

Without the constant stream of storms to the south east the SMB of Greenland would be seriously negative (see 2012's graphs if I am reading them correctly).

plinius

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 09:16:17 PM »
To my layman's eyes it looks like it's been snowing a lot, while the glaciers have been flowing especially JH and the glaciers up north on the west coast. Kind of what I would expect with AGW.
I'm just not sure what the map actually shows - departure from average for this period (which would make this quite significant), or simply the accumulated changes (which could make this perfectly normal).

Hi Oren - would look like that, but as far as I know, this map shows the surface mass balance (or in that case anomaly thereof), i.e. only precipitation minus sublimation and melt. You will see the ice streams (or better their valleys), because they are at lower elevation, mostly driving sublimation (Foehn, sublimation in catabatic winds, possibly even storm ablation if they have a very detailed model) and melt rates up.

You can also check that, since Greenland still has a borderline positive SMB, but the overall balance is deep in the red due to calving.

JimD

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 08:50:19 PM »
Thanks Raenor

For everyone here is where those cool daily graphics are found.

http://polarportal.dk/en/groenlands-indlandsis/nbsp/isens-overflade/
We do not err because truth is difficult to see. It is visible at a glance. We err because this is more comfortable. Alexander Solzhenitsyn

How is it conceivable that all our technological progress - our very civilization - is like the axe in the hand of the pathological criminal? Albert Einstein

Benje

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2016, 03:45:42 PM »
There isn't an obvious place for posting about total Northern Hemisphere ice  but this seems as good as any since Greenland's ice dominates the hemisphere's ice.

I know that the loss of sea ice very directly affects the weather (and the climate) increasing wind speeds and energy and wave heights and energy and these effects are already with us in the Phillipines and more recently Fiji (200mph winds).

But as I have previously posted I think there is also merit in looking at the totality. As it were in another view different from the "just sea ice". It is at the other end of the spectrum: the "end" of the summer sea ice represents the "start" of the serious melting of Greenland. Neven's splendid blog now includes scientific reference to the mechanisms invoved.

Sea level rises from Greenland are presently quoted at .75mm pa (and those of Antartica .25mm pa). But if the rate of loss experienced by the sea ice transfers to Greenland 's ice the rate will imcrease to more like 2mm pa in a year or so incrementally when the summer sea ice is gone  and, I would imagine, rising fast thereafter.

Adding Greenland's more than 2,000 teratons of ice to those 11 remaing teratons of sea ice  in September 2003 shows the difference of scale between the two ice retentions. Of course global ice (incluing Antartica too would add another order of magnitude again). We are now on the slippery slope and it is a very long slope.


sidd

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2016, 08:15:05 PM »
Latest from the Francis team:

http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/JCLI-D-15-0391.1

on arctic sea ice loss and greenland melt.

johnm33

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2016, 12:07:40 AM »
There's activity at the Sermeq 'twins' in the north of Disko

http://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=277.0;attach=8886;image [glacier names]

Skier

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #18 on: March 31, 2016, 08:53:21 AM »
It is only a matter of time until Greenland lives up to its name ::)

Then we will have climate as the Norsemen had in 1000 AD when they were able to have permanent settlements in the tens of thousands of inhabitants with self-sustaining farming and cattle raising.  Enough so that the Church set up several dioceses.  They wouldn't have done this had these been non-permanent settlements like we now have in Antarctica.  Currently, Greenland imports all its food, so we know it's far less green than 1000 years ago by a long shot.

Skier

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #19 on: March 31, 2016, 08:58:01 AM »
There isn't an obvious place for posting about total Northern Hemisphere ice  but this seems as good as any since Greenland's ice dominates the hemisphere's ice.

I know that the loss of sea ice very directly affects the weather (and the climate) increasing wind speeds and energy and wave heights and energy and these effects are already with us in the Phillipines and more recently Fiji (200mph winds).

But as I have previously posted I think there is also merit in looking at the totality. As it were in another view different from the "just sea ice". It is at the other end of the spectrum: the "end" of the summer sea ice represents the "start" of the serious melting of Greenland. Neven's splendid blog now includes scientific reference to the mechanisms invoved.

Sea level rises from Greenland are presently quoted at .75mm pa (and those of Antartica .25mm pa). But if the rate of loss experienced by the sea ice transfers to Greenland 's ice the rate will imcrease to more like 2mm pa in a year or so incrementally when the summer sea ice is gone  and, I would imagine, rising fast thereafter.

Adding Greenland's more than 2,000 teratons of ice to those 11 remaing teratons of sea ice  in September 2003 shows the difference of scale between the two ice retentions. Of course global ice (incluing Antartica too would add another order of magnitude again). We are now on the slippery slope and it is a very long slope.

I think what you say is far fetched and highly inconsistent with the near monotonous sameness of total worldwide sea ice, as shown in the attached graph.

Entropy101

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 09:29:20 AM »


I think what you say is far fetched and highly inconsistent with the near monotonous sameness of total worldwide sea ice, as shown in the attached graph.
Ahhh, the age old denier troll meme of confusing the sea ice area with the land ice volume. So cute.

jdallen

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2016, 05:33:35 PM »


I think what you say is far fetched and highly inconsistent with the near monotonous sameness of total worldwide sea ice, as shown in the attached graph.
Ahhh, the age old denier troll meme of confusing the sea ice area with the land ice volume. So cute.
You here too, Skier?  Look, I know you may disagree with some of the conclusions argued in these forums, but generally, someone walking into a new place, if they intend to act in good faith and are really intent on productive dialog, questions more and provokes less.

I suggest spending a bit more time understanding the "culture" of these forums and learning how to engage with us rather than insult us.

There are an awful lot of very, very smart people posting in these forums, including many people who are conducting active research into what's happening in the Cryosphere, and have made it their life's work for decades.  It is the height of conceit and fundamentally rude for someone to wander in and in the belief you are smarter, to start tossing around half-baked assertions when you really don't have a fraction of the knowledge many of these people apply as part of their vocation on a daily basis.

My recommendation to you is question more, insult less.
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magnamentis

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2016, 06:24:30 PM »
but then the purpose of trolling is exactly that, trolling and on purpose, hence i admire all your patience while there is clearly only one solution to the problem IMHO.

Gray-Wolf

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 10:40:20 AM »
to just finish up the skier facade ....... I have noted that many 'open Deniers' are a tad afraid of surfacing here? They appear to view it as some extreme 'Warmist' operation?

For those of us here since the get go we know that the community is made up of a rich mix of beliefs but a common intent to 'understand' more. The fact that we mainly accept the science, after study, does not make up all catastrophists!

I had cause to ask one of my 'critics' what they would call a 'Doomsayer' once the Doom had arrived..... they declined to answer :)

 
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S.Pansa

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2016, 11:10:56 AM »
I just had a look at the artic weather forecast over at Climat Reanalyzer. By the looks of it (at least according to the GFS forecast from today), the Greenland Melt Season might start 2016 with a big bang.
I don't know how accurate the temp-forecast is but it looks as if most of south Greenland might see temps above freezing.  :o
Isn't it a bit early for that? Unfortunately I have not found an archive on the NSIDC Greenland page. But in 2013, for instance, the season  seems to have started  quite a bit later.

Gray-Wolf

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 01:07:35 PM »
I have begun to concern myself over the 'cold blob', to the SE of Greenland , and its impacts on the Jet Stream ( and so storm tracks?)?

This winter has seen a number of events run up the east coast of Greenland and if that trend continues then we should expect extreme rain events to the lower elevations through summer. I never really contemplated rainfall and ice sheet ablation....... maybe it's time for me to start too?
KOYAANISQATSI

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oren

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2016, 09:39:35 PM »
I have begun to concern myself over the 'cold blob', to the SE of Greenland , and its impacts on the Jet Stream ( and so storm tracks?)?

This winter has seen a number of events run up the east coast of Greenland and if that trend continues then we should expect extreme rain events to the lower elevations through summer. I never really contemplated rainfall and ice sheet ablation....... maybe it's time for me to start too?

Yes...

Cate

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2016, 07:02:43 PM »
I just posted this in the What's New thread but maybe it goes here, since it's more weather-related? Sorry for duplication---still learning to find my way around here. 

Climatereanalyzer.org forecast maps are predicting temp anomalies 15C-20C above normal across much of Greenland through April 13, with large areas of ice sheet to be exposed to air above 0C. 

Tweeted and FB'd today by Severe Weather Europe.

https://twitter.com/severeweatherEU/status/719115326705770496/photo/1

RaenorShine

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2016, 11:50:27 PM »
Robert Scribbler has just posted another Greenland Article

https://robertscribbler.com/2016/04/11/warm-southerly-winds-gust-at-hurricane-force-over-greenland-in-staggering-early-season-heatwave-temperatures-now-hitting-up-to-41-degrees-f-above-average-at-summit/

Weather Underground have a high of 17C (In April!) for Kangerlussuaq, Greenland https://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/BGSF/2016/04/11/DailyHistory.html

Going to be interesting to check the DMI surface mass balance readings over the next couple of days. NSIDC have not even started their daily readings yet...

charles_oil

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2016, 12:40:09 AM »
I just asked NSIDC today - email response: "Although an exact date has not been determined, we will commence with Greenland melt data for 2016 sometime this month." so we may miss a main event in real-time !

bbr2314

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2016, 07:21:55 AM »
vroom


RaenorShine

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2016, 10:23:56 AM »
DMI shows Surface melt as bbr2314 points out.

DMI Surface Mass balance balance increased in the DMI model by 6Gt on 11/4. This is due to rain/snow over the majority of the sheet more than offsetting the heavy loss along the westernmost edge.

Although this is a gain, it does not show the early damage done to the snow blanket over the sheet or melt ponds created, the model will account for these once water leaves the ice sheet over the season.

BornFromTheVoid

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2016, 03:54:50 PM »
A message sent out on cryolist:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear all,
 
On behalf of a number of colleagues and collaborators we would like to alert you to an unusually early melt event over the Greenland ice sheet this week.
We calculate around 11.8% of the area of the ice sheet melted yesterday and according to our analysis (back to 1990, we will extend this back to 1980 shortly), this is a full month earlier over such a large area (more than 10% of the ice sheet) than has occurred previously.
 
Observations from Greenland show that for example, Kangerlussuaq measured 17.8C (only 0.2C off the record temperature measured for the whole of Greenland in April) and Summit station -6.6C, a new record for April. PROMICE station KAN_U showed a daily mean temperature of 0.5C with a maximum hourly temperature of 3.05C, most of the lower PROMICE stations recorded temperatures between 5 and 10C.
 
The culprit driving melt at this time is an interesting omega pressure pattern with a very cold north America and warm air over Greenland.
 
We have assembled some information from AWS, radiosondes and models in the attached pdf document to explain the context of this strange start to the melt season in 2016. As usual, since 2013, daily updated surface mass balance plots, and PROMICE observations as well as GRACE total mass balance can all be viewed  here (in English):
 
http://polarportal.dk/en/groenlands-indlandsis/nbsp/isens-overflade/
 
Data and model output is available for research purposes.
 
On behalf of Polar Portal scientists at DMI, DTU and GEUS,
 
Best wishes
 
Ruth Mottram

A-Team

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2016, 04:07:05 PM »
Quote
We have assembled some information from AWS, radiosondes and models in the attached pdf document
The first of 4 pages of that are:

http://lists.cryolist.org/pipermail/cryolist-cryolist.org/attachments/20160412/df4b427c/attachment-0001.pdf

Unusually Early Greenland Melt
By Ruth Mottram, DMI

An early melt event over the Greenland ice sheet occurred this week, smashing by a month the previous records of more than 10% of the ice sheet melting. Based on observation-initialized weather model runs by DMI, almost 12% of the Greenland ice sheet had more than 1mm of melt on Monday 11th April, following an early start to melting the previous day.

Scientists at DMI were at first incredulous due to the early date. “We had to check that our models were still working properly” said Peter Langen, a climate scientist at DMI. “Fortunately we could see from the PROMICE.dk stations on the ice sheet that it had been well above melting, even above 10 °C. This helped to explain the results”.

The former top 3 earliest dates for a melt area larger than 10% were previously all in May (5th May 2010, 8th May 1990, 8th May 2006). “Even weather stations quite high up on the ice sheet observed very high temperatures on Monday”, said Robert Fausto, a scientist at GEUS who maintains PROMICE.dk melt data.

“At KAN_U for example, a site at 1840 m above sea level, we observed a maximum temperature of 3.1°C. This would be a warm day in July, never mind April”. Other PROMICE stations in the network at lower levels had daily average temperatures between 5 and 10 °C.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:03:02 PM by A-Team »

Barthol

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2016, 05:47:39 PM »
Tweets from Jason Box

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 12:46:13 AM »
Picture from Snow White:

Greenland 2016 Melt Starts A Month Early

Some clouds around, but I expect you get the idea?
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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2016, 12:50:12 AM »
I decided to do a short blog post on this: Greenland under early pressure too
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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2016, 03:20:41 AM »
Quote
Eric Holthaus:  Greenland’s annual melt season just got underway…about two months early.
https://twitter.com/ericholthaus/status/720007480869126147

Quote
Kees van der Leun: Wondering why Greenland ice sheet is melting at record rate for April? Temperatures around 20°C above normal today!
https://twitter.com/sustainable2050/status/719984096198397952
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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2016, 02:20:02 PM »
Realize this is anecdotal but I have been an avid gardener for 40 years and live in Chicago. We have had remarkably mild, wet summers for the past 5 or 6 years that have wreaked havoc on my tomato  and pepper plants. I have posted data here showing this but have not been able to locate it. I will revisit and post later when I have the time. I believe the pattern we are seeing in the Arctic right now with anomalously cold temps across the midsection of NA and a ridiculously warm Arctic may be the new normal for summer.

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2016, 05:23:32 PM »
I think in a direct response to Greenland/AMOC slowdown, Quebec's snowpack is now hugely anomalous, and winter's grip shows no sign of letting go.

Most or all of this will fade by summer's end but I would imagine the albedo differential caused during spring as solar insolation increases would be very significant in terms of downstream cooling (that is a *lot* more solar energy deflected than during winter). Combined with the warm Atlantic, the gradient should trigger continued storminess heading into Greenland, with systems tapping deep Atlantic moisture/heat for prolonged periods of warmth over the icepack.

This may also be connected to an apparent recent lengthening in Hudson Bay's ice seasons, which we may or may not see play out again this year in the face of overwhelming warmth almost everywhere else.

...but all of the above come back to the freshwater pulse now emanating from Greenland on an increasingly long basis each year. Pretty crazy.


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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2016, 11:23:31 PM »
Here is more information on the recent surface ice melting event in Greenland:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/greenland-ice-sheet-melting-as-temperatures-warm/

Extract: "According to the Danish study, the ice melt occurring now was driven by warm air that advanced from the southwest, bringing rain with it along the coast. The researchers said this was similar to an extreme ice melt in 2012, when an astonishing 95 percent of the ice sheet surface experienced melt.
Usually at this time of year, rainfall and ice sheet meltwater encounters snow and re-freezing.
"Meltwater refreezing releases heat into the snow at depth, reducing the amount of heating needed for melt to start and forming ice layers that can help meltwater run off the ice sheet earlier with climate warming," said Jason Box of the Geological Survey of Denmark and Greenland.
"It is a very unusual situation, especially so early in the year, with very cold air and deep low pressures system to the west and east of Greenland and very warm air forming a 'cap' over the island," Martin Stendel, a DMI climate scientist, said on the organization's website. "This helped to force a frontal system with very warm air up the west coast bringing rain over the ice sheet.""

See also:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/04/13/greenland_is_melting_much_faster_than_scientists_expected.html
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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2016, 11:06:15 AM »
A Landsat 8 glimpse through the clouds of the recent surface melt:

http://GreatWhiteCon.info/2016/04/greenland-2016-melt-starts-a-month-early/#Apr-15

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2016, 02:51:40 PM »
Wow

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2016, 03:58:24 PM »
Do we know how much rain fell? Could some of these lakes include significant amounts of warm rainwater?

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2016, 09:09:44 PM »


Seems like 2012 was remarkable decline in mass. Since then looks like going back more towards the longer term straight line decline.

Any thought on this? I seem to recall talk of lots of layers becoming saturated with water. Perhaps once too much saturation, a lot of the water drains out giving high mass loss that year but subsequent years tend not to lose much mass?

Is it possible that an early melt event may not mean much?

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2016, 09:21:41 PM »
Quote
Seems like 2012 was remarkable decline in mass. Since then looks like going back more towards the longer term straight line decline.

I would be "cautious" in coming to that conclusion.  Remember.....we are coming OFF the bounce of 2012 "trough"....to the 2014 "peak" (in Wall Street speak.....a "dead cat bounce").

When I look at that chart I see this:  A SLIGHTLY "arcing" downtrend that will continue to pick up speed to the downside after the two year "rebound" that is now "rolling over".  That "technical look" at the chart....also goes along with the physics of the situation the Greenland ice now finds itself:  Given all the feedback effects that are kicking in....in and around Greenland....I would EXPECT a slight to moderate pickup in the loss of ice over the next 5 - 10 years.

That's my "beancounter" 2 cents worth (and worth every penny you paid for it:)

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2016, 10:25:17 AM »
The forecast of western Greenland undergoing another 'heat wave', is getting closer.
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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2016, 03:23:47 PM »
We may be witnessing the beginning of an historic melt season for the southern half of Greenland.

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2016, 03:43:43 PM »
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We may be witnessing the beginning of an historic melt season for the southern half of Greenland.

Very possible.  And not very surprising (although disappointing).  The Arctic looks to be "attacked" from several areas this spring:

1)  "Inside" Svalbard (from the intrusion of waters from the north Atlantic....EARLY intrusion)
2)  Beufort Gyre fracturing...
3)  Warming northern and northeastern coast of Russia
4)  Early season Greenland warming...especially southern half of Greenland

This is the "sort" of thing one would expect as "the noose tightens" in around the Arctic ice sheet.  Nature "picks off" the easiest stuff first......but everything is eventually impacted.

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Re: Greenland 2016 Melt Season
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2016, 09:19:50 AM »
I found this here:
SMOS confirms that Winter is NOT coming

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From the late seventies with SMMR, passive microwave sensors have already shown their ability to monitor ice caps.

SMOS, thanks to its L-band capacity is sensitive to layering in the snow/ice pack but liquid water on the surface will also change drastically brightness temperatures  and this is exactly what happened.

SMOS sees thus the brightness temperatures over Western Greenland decrease due to heavy surface melting.

The videos below show an animation of SMOS measurements over Greenland.

The the South Eastern part of Greenland, along the coast line, the brightness temperatures suddenly drop from relatively high values (> 240 K. orange colour) to values lower than 220 K. (light blue, green yellow).