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Author Topic: The Russiagate conspiracy theory  (Read 1156724 times)

Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2500 on: January 30, 2018, 09:57:38 PM »
In the name of public "honesty" they'll publish Nunes' (who received $12.5 million in corporate funding last year) carefully composed misrepresentation, but have refused to simultaneously release a more careful review and analysis of the facts from the Dems and/or professionals.
I bet the memo will turn out beyond ridiculous. And I bet 1/3 of Americans won't be able to stand this insult of common sense, and instead take it seriously and integrate it into conspirational ideation.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2501 on: January 30, 2018, 10:13:22 PM »
With leads like this to rundown, the Russia investigate should stay active until at least just before the midterm elections:

Title: "There’s a second Trump-Russia dossier"

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/1/30/16951490/trump-russia-dossier-cody-shearer-memo-nunes

Extract: "Last year, a controversial dossier compiled by a former British spy sent shockwaves through Washington. It contained unverified claims that President Donald Trump had deep ties to Russia and was potentially compromised by the Russians.

But now it turns out that a second dossier exists — and it contains some of the same information as the first one.

The Guardian reported on Tuesday that the FBI is in possession of both dossiers and is looking into whether any of the information is true. The agency is in the midst of an investigation into whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia to win the 2016 presidential election.

This second document, like the first, is highly controversial. For starters, its author is Cody Shearer — a political activist with strong ties to the Clinton administration in the 1990s. He has no experience in intelligence, which makes his involvement with a document that could reflect badly on Trump look suspiciously partisan since he can’t claim to have spying expertise.

Things get murkier. Christopher Steele, the ex-British intelligence officer who authored the first dossier, gave the new “Shearer memo” to the FBI in October 2016. Apparently, he received Shearer’s work from an unidentified American contact and handed it over to authorities in an effort to give the FBI more evidence for its investigation. Steele noted that he couldn’t vouch for the claims in the second dossier, however."


See also:

Title: "Second Trump-Russia dossier being assessed by FBI"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/30/trump-russia-collusion-fbi-cody-shearer-memo
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2502 on: January 30, 2018, 10:26:59 PM »
Per the linked NBC article Trump is telling friends that he is considering asking "… Sessions to consider prosecuting Mueller and his team."  Trump seems to think that this would not only discredit Mueller but would essentially stop the Russia investigation in its tracks until the smoke cleared after years of investigating Mueller & his team on other charges:

Title: "The ‘state’ of Donald Trump? He thinks it couldn’t be better."

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2018-state-of-the-union-address/state-donald-trump-he-thinks-it-couldn-t-be-better-n842501

Extract: "Donald Trump is telling friends and aides in private that things are going great — for him.

Some reasons: He's decided that a key witness in the Russia probe, Paul Manafort, isn't going to "flip" and sell him out, friends and aides say. He believes Robert Mueller, who heads the investigation, can be crushed, if necessary, without being fired.

Sources say that Trump has adopted a two-track strategy to deal with the Mueller investigation.

One is an un-Trumpian passivity and trust. He keeps telling some in his circle that Mueller — any day now — will tell him he is off the hook for any charge of collusion with the Russians or obstruction of justice.

But Trump — who trusts no one, or at least no one for long — has now decided that he must have an alternative strategy that does not involve having Justice Department officials fire Mueller.

"I think he's been convinced that firing Mueller would not only create a firestorm, it would play right into Mueller's hands," said another friend, "because it would give Mueller the moral high ground."

Instead, as is now becoming plain, the Trump strategy is to discredit the investigation and the FBI without officially removing the leadership. Trump is even talking to friends about the possibility of asking Attorney General Jeff Sessions to consider prosecuting Mueller and his team.

"Here's how it would work: 'We're sorry, Mr. Mueller, you won't be able to run the federal grand jury today because he has to go testify to another federal grand jury,'" said one Trump adviser."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2503 on: January 30, 2018, 10:38:44 PM »
It looks like Trump's disorientation machine is at it again.  If the GOP leadership had any integrity they would take the Trump administration to task for cribbing from the Forbes list to create the "Oligarch List", and then saying that the list is meaningless w.r.t. sanctions:

Title: "Trump Administration Admits It Cribbed From Forbes Magazine To Create “Oligarch List”"

https://www.buzzfeed.com/johnhudson/trump-administration-admits-it-cribbed-forbes-magazine-to?utm_term=.gw7qXXPjoV#.tur1VVxWaB

Extract: "The revelation is likely to invite criticism that a congressionally mandated list designed to punish Russia for interfering in the US election was put together haphazardly.

Almost all of the 96 oligarchs listed in the government-issued report, who each have a net worth of $1 billion or more, appear in the Forbes ranking. When asked if there is “any truth to the criticisms that the Treasury list was inspired or derived in some way from the Forbes list,” a Treasury spokesperson said “yes.”

But many Russians breathed a sigh of relief following Treasury’s release of the report Monday night, which included statements from the Trump administration that it was not a sanctions list and the US was not applying new sanctions mandated by legislation at this time."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2504 on: January 30, 2018, 10:50:31 PM »
PropOrNot is a variant of McCarthyism against anything not mainstream in the media.
This is what R.Parry writes about it:

I think you meant "wrote", as in past tense; Mr. Parry passed away yesterday, succumbing to pancreatic cancer.

Robert Parry, Investigative Reporter in Washington, Dies at 68

R.I.P.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2505 on: January 30, 2018, 11:24:55 PM »
PropOrNot is a variant of McCarthyism against anything not mainstream in the media.
This is what R.Parry writes about it:

I think you meant "wrote", as in past tense; Mr. Parry passed away yesterday, succumbing to pancreatic cancer.

Robert Parry, Investigative Reporter in Washington, Dies at 68

R.I.P.


Ouch!
His voice will be missed.
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2506 on: January 30, 2018, 11:59:08 PM »
Here is more background on the possible fallout if Nunes' memo is released:

Title: "Why the Nunes memo is a very big deal"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/30/politics/cordero-nunes-memo/index.html

Extract: "I haven't seen the memo, so I can't speak to the precise national security risks that exist if it is released. At a general level, depending on the classification level of the document -- whether SECRET or TOP SECRET -- if released in an unauthorized fashion [it] could cause either "serious damage" or "exceptionally grave damage" to the national security of the United States.

The release of this memo under the process that is unfolding this week may cause serious damage to the relationship between the operational and policy professionals who work in the national security space in the executive branch, and the political leadership at the White House and in the House of Representatives."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2507 on: January 31, 2018, 09:02:29 AM »
I think you meant "wrote", as in past tense; Mr. Parry passed away yesterday, succumbing to pancreatic cancer.

Robert Parry, Investigative Reporter in Washington, Dies at 68

R.I.P.

I never liked Robert Parry's fact-free, pro-Russian reporting, and I hated it when he parroted Russian MOD lies about MH17 and attacked other investigative journalists (like 60 Minutes Australia) with false arguments. Journalists that simply confirmed the facts about MH17. But at 68 he was too young. Robert, may you rest in peace.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 09:22:13 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2508 on: January 31, 2018, 04:09:05 PM »
Mark Corallo was in the room when Trump & his advisors were discussing strategies to obstruct justice associated with the investigation of Trump Jr.'s meeting with the Russians during the campaign.  As we know from John Dean's case that client attorney privilege does not extend to situations where the attorney is witness to his client actively engaging in a crime.  So Corallo's testimony could be a nail in the coffin for an obstruction charge against Trump (assuming that there is a pathway to indict a sitting president):

Title: "Mueller Seeks Interview With Ex-Spokesman for Trump’s Legal Team"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mueller-seeks-interview-with-ex-spokesman-for-trumps-legal-team-1517363052

Extract: "Mark Corallo resigned from position after revelation that president’s son arranged meeting with Russian lawyer"
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 04:29:56 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2509 on: January 31, 2018, 04:30:10 PM »
I hope the Mueller gets tired quickly of the juvenile games that Trump's lawyers are playing during the interview negotiations and just issues a subpoena to haul Trump before a Grand Jury:

Title: "CNN: Trump's lawyers arguing Mueller hasn't met bar for interview"

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/371505-cnn-trumps-lawyers-arguing-mueller-hasnt-met-bar-for-interview
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2510 on: January 31, 2018, 04:38:26 PM »
At the appropriate time, I think that Mueller should interview Nunes in order to determine whether he has been coordinating with the WH to obstruct justice:

Title: "Devin Nunes Won’t Say If He Worked With White House on Anti-FBI Memo"

https://www.thedailybeast.com/devin-nunes-wont-say-if-he-worked-with-white-house-on-anti-fbi-memo?ref=home

Extract: "The House intel committee GOP leader refused to answer behind closed doors if he coordinated with the president’s team on his report blasting Rosenstein, Comey, and McCabe."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2511 on: January 31, 2018, 04:47:15 PM »
I would not be surprised if Mueller doesn't manage to cripple the NRA for laundering Russian money to help Trump.  If so this could cripple the GOP.

Title: "What it means that Russia may have donated to the NRA to help Trump"

https://www.vox.com/mischiefs-of-faction/2018/1/24/16924472/russian-money-nra-trump

Extract: "Last Thursday, McClatchy DC published a story titled “FBI Investigating Whether Russian Money Went to NRA to Help Trump.” It states:

The FBI is investigating whether a top Russian banker with ties to the Kremlin [Alexander Torshin] illegally funneled money to the National Rifle Association to help Donald Trump win the presidency, two sources familiar with the matter have told McClatchy.

A key theme of this blog is that the real Democratic and Republican parties extend beyond the alphabet soup of formal party committees (RNC, DNC, NRSC, DSCC, NRCC, DCCC) and include their allied interest groups, media, Super PACS, and consultants. In this view, the NRA may not have the word “Republican” in its title, but it is a central player in the GOP coalition."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2512 on: January 31, 2018, 05:15:44 PM »
Mueller is continuing to gather information that will help in box Trump into a corner when he finally interrogates Trump:

Title: "DOJ gives special counsel internal docs on proposed Sessions resignation, source says"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/doj-special-counsel-internal-docs-sessions-resignation/story?id=52721241

Extract: "In the weeks before special counsel Robert Mueller’s team interviewed Attorney General Jeff Sessions, the Justice Department turned over a cache of internal correspondence, including documents related to the proposed resignation of Sessions last year and emails with the White House about fired national security adviser Michael Flynn, according to a source with knowledge of the matter."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2513 on: January 31, 2018, 06:37:33 PM »
...
Grand Jury testimony is possibly in Mueller's interest, as the Grand Jury can then be motivated to issue an indictment, which doesn't have to be approved by Mueller's boss(es). 

The indictment of the President, then, doesn't become a question of whether the Justice Department can indict a sitting President.  It becomes whether a Grand Jury indictment can go to trial while a President is in office.  Given the place of the Grand Jury in the Constitution, I'd be cautiously optimistic that a GJ indictment *can* go to trial.

The first linked opinion piece believes that Mueller will not indict Trump because by DOJ rules he is not empowered to do so, and that Rosenstein is only authorized to pass on any findings from Mueller on to Congress and/or to make the report public (if Rosenstein deems this to be in the best interest of America).

So even if SteveMDFP is correct that a Grand Jury can indict Trump, that would assume that the members of the Grand Jury have very strong characters.  Therefore, I now really like the idea that Sessions new DOJ guidelines make much easier for Mueller to work with say the State of New York to seize any Trump assets associated with RICO matters (see the second linked article):

Title: "There's No Way Mueller Will Indict Trump"

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/even-if-trump-is-found-guilty-mueller-wouldnt-be-the-indictment-decision-maker/551753/

Extract: "Mueller will not indict Trump for obstruction of justice or for any other crime.  Period. Full stop. End of story. Speculations to the contrary are just fantasy.

He won’t do it for the good and sufficient reason that the Department of Justice has a long-standing legal opinion that sitting presidents may not be indicted. First issued in 1973 during the Nixon era, the policy was reaffirmed in 2000, during the Clinton era. These rules bind all Department of Justice employees, and Mueller, in the end, is a Department of Justice employee.

What can Mueller do if he finds evidence of criminality involving the president?  He can and will (as authorized by Department of Justice regulations) file a report on his findings with the attorney general (or, since Attorney General Sessions is, in this case, recused, with the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein). Rosenstein will then be faced with the important decision of whether and how to make that report public—whether to convey it to Congress or not; whether to release it publicly or not. The regulations are so vague (they say only that he “may determine that public release of these reports would be in the public interest, to the extent that release would comply with applicable legal restrictions”) that they, in effect, give Rosenstein plenary discretion to do whatever he thinks is in the best interest of the country.

So, every time you read about the threat to fire Mueller, remember this—the critical actor in most future scenarios is not Mueller, but Rosenstein. Knowing Rosenstein personally, I have high confidence that he will make what he thinks is the best decision for the country—the same may not be true of his replacement (or of the replacement attorney general, should Sessions be fired). That, of course, is why the highly dubious “secret memo” prepared by House Republicans reportedly targets Rosenstein—even though he is a Trump appointee who advocated firing Comey, Trump supporters fear he will follow the rule of law.

Wisps of information in the wind suggest a far different, deeper concern. The president’s finances have always been suspect. Some have thought them resting on shaky foundations. Ongoing investigations have looked to his banking and investments as well as those of his closest family. Several of the special counsel’s prosecutorial hires specialize in money-laundering cases—an odd specialty for an election fraud/computer-hacking case (which, basically, is what the Russia investigation amounts to). Perhaps, just perhaps, it is that investigation that has motivated the president’s response."

&

Title: "Trump Could Now Face Possible Asset Seizure By Mueller While Still President, Legal Expert Explains"

http://www.bluedotdaily.com/trump-could-now-face-possible-asset-seizure-by-mueller-while-still-president-legal-expert-explains/

Extract: "Sarah Smith – another legal expert who spent over 20 years in government ethics law – said that a new directive made by Trump’s Department of Justice makes it easier for prosecutors to seize assets before trial and before a conviction in criminal cases.

This will all have to be overseen by the judicial system, but Trump’s own administration may have just provided any easier way to seize Trump’s money in the process."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2514 on: January 31, 2018, 07:07:34 PM »
The more I think about it, the more I think that Mueller's current apparent focus on obstruction of justice charges, and on interviewing Trump, is mostly a smoke screen to give Team Mueller more time/freedom to develop Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO) charges against Trump, see the linked 2017 article on this topic:

Title: "Donald Trump and Criminal Conspiracy Law"

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/security/reports/2017/12/07/443833/donald-trump-criminal-conspiracy-law/

Extract: "But having a sitting president investigated for collaborating with hostile Russian forces to tilt a presidential election is certainly an extraordinary case.

The involvement of the New York attorney general has a number of other benefits as well: This is an office that has already repeatedly investigated the Trump organization with some degree of success; a significant number of the financial transactions concerning Trump, Sater, Manafort, and others all took place in the state of New York; and, the office is well familiar with making complex financial cases. The possibility that the New York attorney general would bring a RICO criminal case against The Trump Organization as it relates to complex financial crimes and or money laundering is an intriguing one, and it would hold a sword over key actors in the process while allowing the Special Counsel to direct his greatest firepower on Trump’s Russia links and what appears to be a pattern of obstructing justice.

On balance, RICO instruments can and should be seen as a viable potential tool for prosecutors probing the actions of President Trump both before and after he took office. The more that is learned about the Trump universe, and the better the investigative research by prosecutors, the media, Congress, and concerned citizens, the sharper a pattern of criminality appears to come into focus. Less than a year into his presidency, Trump’s national security adviser has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI, his former campaign chairman is facing multiple indictments, and a campaign foreign policy adviser has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI and acknowledged that the Russians claimed to have Clinton’s emails before the public knew about such hacking. More dominoes seem almost inevitable to fall given the special counsel’s efforts to secure cooperating witnesses, and RICO statutes give him a powerful card to play if he wishes to do so."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2515 on: January 31, 2018, 08:51:35 PM »
Since I raised the issue of the role the New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman could play in the Russia investigate, the least that I can do is to provide a relevant link.  Hopefully, Mueller and Schneiderman develop a closer working relationship w.r.t. the Russia probe:

Title: "New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman could play huge role in Russia probe"

https://www.aol.com/article/news/2017/12/26/new-york-attorney-general-eric-schneiderman-could-play-huge-role-in-russia-probe/23317371/

Extract: "New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman recently took his 100th legal or administrative action against President Donald Trump's administration or congressional Republicans since Trump's victory last fall — and some view him as a potential last resort in special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian election meddling.

Schneiderman's most prominent action against Trump, who before taking office lived in New York under the attorney general's jurisdiction, came in the form of a lawsuit against Trump University which resulted in Trump paying a $25 million settlement.

The future president attacked Schneiderman as "feckless and corrupt," a "total loser," a "shakedown artist," a "lightweight," "incompetent," "the least respected AG in the US," a "total joke," a "total crook," and "failing."

Trump even, without evidence, accused Schneiderman of being a "cokehead" and demanded he take a drug test. He also accused the attorney general of wearing "eyeliner" because of his dark eyelashes, which The Times reported has been attributed to side effects from glaucoma medication.

Schneiderman is now viewed by some, as The Times wrote, as "a possible backstop should the president exercise his pardon power" for some of his associates caught up in Mueller's probe into Russian involvement in the 2016 presidential election. Already, Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, his former national security adviser Michael Flynn, and others have been charged in the Mueller investigation.

Trump's pardon power does not apply to violations of state laws, and New York charges could be filed against those ensnared by the probe since many of the actions under scrutiny took place in the state, where the Trump campaign was headquartered.

"I have a lot of respect for the work the special counsel's doing," Schneiderman said. "They've put together a terrific team. ... Just watching it from the outside, like everybody else, it seems like they're doing a very thorough and serious job. I hope there's not going to be any effort to derail them or shut them down.""

Edit, see also:

Title: "Mueller teams up with New York attorney general in Manafort probe"

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/30/manafort-mueller-probe-attorney-general-242191
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 09:02:37 PM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2516 on: January 31, 2018, 11:24:44 PM »
Propornot authors do not reveal their identities, but alas, they left clues. They turn out to be the usual suspects.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2018/01/untying-propornot-look-2017s-biggest-fake-news-story.html

Of course, washingtonsblog is on the list. Wouldn't do for the great unwashed to see the men and women behind the curtain ...

sidd

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2517 on: February 01, 2018, 02:05:05 AM »
Yet another example of obstruction of justice:

Title: "Exclusive: Trump asked  Rosenstein if he was 'on my team'"

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/exclusive-trump-asked-rosenstein-if-he-was-on-my-team/ar-BBIwQYt?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2518 on: February 01, 2018, 02:50:28 AM »
If your not part of the solution (fighting Trump) ... (then your someone Trump is targeting to suck into his web)

Title: "The Chilling Way Trump’s State of the Union Address Targeted the Mueller Investigation"

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2018/01/the-chilling-way-trumps-state-of-the-union-address-targeted-mueller/

Extract: "Trump never mentioned the Russia probe—but he clearly signaled his intentions.
...
In Tuesday night’s State of the Union address, Trump gave two conspicuous signals that he will continue to do everything in his power to fight Mueller—including trying to grab more power. Not long into his speech, Trump uttered a chilling line: He called on Congress to give his White House the authority to summarily fire any federal employee deemed to “undermine the public trust, or fail the American people.”
...
Then he continued:

So tonight I call on Congress to empower every cabinet secretary with the authority to reward good workers and to remove federal employees who undermine the public trust, or fail the American people.
...
Another telling moment came as Trump exited the House chamber Tuesday night, when he briefly interacted with GOP Rep. Jeff Duncan of South Carolina about the secretive memo assembled by House Intelligence Committee chairman Devin Nunes:

“Mr. President, let’s release the memo,” Duncan said.

“Oh yeah, don’t worry, 100 percent,” Trump responded. “Can you imagine? You’d be too angry.”"

Edit: For the FBI to take down Al Capone (or in more modern terms  John Gotti) they needed to form the 'Untouchables', maybe Wray should buy Rosenstein and Mueller some bulletproof armor (especially now that Wray is on Trump's hit list for challenging Nunes' memo).
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 03:16:22 AM by AbruptSLR »
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2519 on: February 01, 2018, 03:34:31 AM »
If Trump thinks that government is a 'family mafia business' and he is the Don, the DOJ (ie. Rosenstein) had better treat him appropriately:

Title: "David Brooks: Trump Thinks Government Is A "Family Mafia Business" And He's The Don"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/06/david_brooks_trump_thinks_government_is_a_family_mafia_business_and_hes_the_don.html

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2520 on: February 01, 2018, 04:39:24 AM »
Propornot authors do not reveal their identities, but alas, they left clues. They turn out to be the usual suspects.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2018/01/untying-propornot-look-2017s-biggest-fake-news-story.html

Of course, washingtonsblog is on the list. Wouldn't do for the great unwashed to see the men and women behind the curtain ...

sidd

This is hilarious. The Russian apologists are furious about PropOrNot.com.
From your link :

Quote
The damage Propornot did to scores of news and opinions websites in late 2016-2017provides the basis of a massive civil suit. I mean huge, as in the potential is there for a tobacco company sized  class-action sized lawsuit.

Yeah, good luck with that.

and

Quote
If that’s what it takes for you to understand the danger Propornot and the groups around them pose to everyone you love,......

Enough of that BS.
Let's take a look at washingtonsblog.com.
For starters, they failed the MH17 test miserably :

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/07/wikipedia-as-propaganda-not-history-mh17-as-an-example.html
states :
Quote
As an example: wikipedia’s English-language article about the 17 July 2014 shoot-down of the MH17 Malaysian airliner is a shameless propaganda-piece by the U.S. Government and its agents. Its (at present) 320 footnote-sources don’t include any of the many reports (virtually all in the foreign press) that present evidence the Ukrainian government shot down this airliner.

Pure Russian propaganda, and they are not even subtle about it.

It proves once again that PropOrNot is SPOT ON in identifying Russian propaganda web sites.
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Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2521 on: February 01, 2018, 09:03:33 AM »

It proves once again that PropOrNot is SPOT ON in identifying Russian propaganda web sites.

Rob, as your world apparently is black-and-white, you have to sort everything accordingly, don't you. Sad.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2522 on: February 01, 2018, 09:18:24 AM »
Rob, as your world apparently is black-and-white, you have to sort everything accordingly, don't you. Sad.
No Hefaistos. It isn't and I don't.
But MH17 was pretty clear, which is why I use it as a test of reason and rational thought, versus Russian propaganda.

[edit] So far that method shows that PropOrNot.com is spot-on in determining (Russian) propaganda.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 09:33:31 AM by Rob Dekker »
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Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2523 on: February 01, 2018, 10:08:39 AM »
Rob, with the rebellion in Kiev they (the us) took everything out of the bank vaults. With the financial crisis they confiscated evereything above 100 000 usd, in one of these tax paradises. From foreigners. And the origine of that financial crisis was also the us. So if one the days a nuke explodes in the harbour of los angeles or New York. Than you know why it happens. And these tech companies are the best frieds from all that trash. Thats why they prey on them in california. War is comming rob. To every corner of this planet.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2524 on: February 01, 2018, 12:53:36 PM »

Let's take a look at washingtonsblog.com.
For starters, they failed the MH17 test miserably :

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/07/wikipedia-as-propaganda-not-history-mh17-as-an-example.html
states :
Quote
As an example: wikipedia’s English-language article about the 17 July 2014 shoot-down of the MH17 Malaysian airliner is a shameless propaganda-piece by the U.S. Government and its agents. Its (at present) 320 footnote-sources don’t include any of the many reports (virtually all in the foreign press) that present evidence the Ukrainian government shot down this airliner.

Pure Russian propaganda, and they are not even subtle about it.

It proves once again that PropOrNot is SPOT ON in identifying Russian propaganda web sites.

While I do think ratings/flagging operations should operate transparently, I do have to agree about washingtonsblog being utter swill.  This, among many breathless, over-the-top passages struck me:
Quote
The Ukrainian World Congress is represented in the US Congress by the Ukrainian Caucus headed up by ISIS supporter and Nazi cheerleader Marcy Kaptur. Her Ukrainian Caucus represents people  with political positions that scared Adolf Hitler in WWII.

Yeah, Kaptur is actually a strong progressive, though she does tend to favor some military spending.  Women's rights, health care, progressive taxation, she gets all the checkboxes.  So passages like this make the authors look rather psychotic. 

Alexander555

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2525 on: February 01, 2018, 01:38:07 PM »
The only thing that makes sence is organised crime to shoot it down. And they have been hit hard in the years before. We are talking about 150 billion of confiscated(lost) money. And probably many of them were not criminals. There are more criminals in tax havens in the US and Canada. And they have been printing trillions to save other peoples asses. No matter how you look at it, the knife cuts from both sides. That's many of angry criminals that don't care about it to shoot hundreds of people out of the sky.

NevB

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2526 on: February 01, 2018, 03:00:24 PM »
The Russians are condemned by their own lies.

Their first instinct was to blame a Ukrainian fighter, then double down with a propaganda campaign of lies when this failed which still continuous.

If Russia hadn't persisted with their lies and admitted that the Jet was shot down by a BUK then perhaps they would have some credibility but their lying instincts are just too strong.

Rob is absolutely correct that the MH17 incident is good as an indicator of who is telling the truth as in this case the truth has become crystal clear. 
 

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2527 on: February 01, 2018, 03:24:22 PM »
If Rob knows about what he is talking. Somebody should be in jail for shooting that plain. So does he knows from who the order came ?

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2528 on: February 01, 2018, 04:09:20 PM »
Nunes keeps showing how little Team Trump cares about the law:

Title: "Schiff: Nunes gave Trump 'secretly altered' version of the memo"

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/371756-schiff-accuses-nunes-of-sending-trump-edited-memo
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2529 on: February 01, 2018, 04:13:48 PM »
Even the Senate GOP leadership is warning Nunes to be careful with his memo:

Title: "Senate GOP leader cautions Nunes on FBI memo"

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/371774-senate-gop-leader-cautions-nunes-on-fbi-memo

Extract: "Thune, speaking to reporters at a Republican retreat, said that Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) should first share the memo with Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.) before releasing it publicly, noting that Burr has been unable to obtain the document."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2530 on: February 01, 2018, 05:01:45 PM »
If you don't think that Trump would hit North Korea with a kiloton nuclear weapon in order to distract from the Russia investigation (say in a few months time), think again:

Title: "U.S. says military option not believed to be close for solving North Korea crisis"

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-usa/u-s-says-military-option-not-believed-to-be-close-for-solving-north-korea-crisis-idUSKBN1FL4KY

Extract: "A U.S. special envoy said on Thursday all options remain on the table for solving the nuclear standoff with North Korea but that he did not think the military option was close."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2531 on: February 01, 2018, 05:09:47 PM »
Hope Hicks would be wise to cut a plea deal with Mueller before she winds-up in prison:

Title: "NYT: Corallo will tell special counsel about alleged Hope Hicks vow that emails 'will never get out'"

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/mark-corallo-hope-hicks-donald-trump-jr-emails/index.html

Extract: "Former Trump team legal spokesperson Mark Corallo had concerns that White House communications director Hope Hicks could be considering obstructing justice after a comment she reportedly made about emails between Donald Trump Jr. and Russians, according to a New York Times story.

Hicks allegedly told President Donald Trump on a conference call that the Trump Jr. emails "will never get out," and Corallo plans to share the conversation with special counsel Robert Mueller, the Times reported Wednesday night, citing three people with knowledge of his interview request."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2532 on: February 01, 2018, 05:23:43 PM »
Anyone who is still convinced that the long history of Trump family and professional supporters are not corrupted by Russian mob and Putin-related money and influence should read the original document here*:
http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180118/106796/HMTG-115-IG00-20180118-SD002.pdf

Quote
I investigate business stuff and financial crime and corruption and those kind of things. That's my gig. So people came to us with stories that we never pursued. And we were recently asked by some reporter did you write a memo in 2015 ... I had no idea what they were talking about. You know, we threw a line in the water and Moby Dick came back and we didn't know what to do with it at first.

This underscores a really important point, which is that ... kompromat is a big deal for Chris Steele. It is not a big deal for Glenn Simpson, because my professional world is financial crime and politics and the other things ... [Steele] is in Russian intelligence

*If this doesn't come across the pond, I made a copy and will be happy to email the PDF if you use the handy-dandy connection under "My Messages" at the top of this page.

Hefaistos

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2533 on: February 01, 2018, 08:02:51 PM »
Rob, as your world apparently is black-and-white, you have to sort everything accordingly, don't you. Sad.
No Hefaistos. It isn't and I don't.
But MH17 was pretty clear, which is why I use it as a test of reason and rational thought, versus Russian propaganda.

[edit] So far that method shows that PropOrNot.com is spot-on in determining (Russian) propaganda.

First of all, we don't even know to what extent Russia was involved in MH17, as it is still under investigation. But this isn't about that issue, it's about whether we should accept and listen to what independent, critical media have to say on any kind of issue. With your McCarthyist logic, we shouldn't even listen to them, because they fail to say the 'correct' things about MH17. That is indeed a sad logic.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2534 on: February 01, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »
Anyone who is still convinced that the long history of Trump family and professional supporters are not corrupted by Russian mob and Putin-related money and influence should read the original document here*:
http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180118/106796/HMTG-115-IG00-20180118-SD002.pdf

Quote
I investigate business stuff and financial crime and corruption and those kind of things. That's my gig. So people came to us with stories that we never pursued. And we were recently asked by some reporter did you write a memo in 2015 ... I had no idea what they were talking about. You know, we threw a line in the water and Moby Dick came back and we didn't know what to do with it at first.

This underscores a really important point, which is that ... kompromat is a big deal for Chris Steele. It is not a big deal for Glenn Simpson, because my professional world is financial crime and politics and the other things ... [Steele] is in Russian intelligence

*If this doesn't come across the pond, I made a copy and will be happy to email the PDF if you use the handy-dandy connection under "My Messages" at the top of this page.
Susan
Give me a hint. I'm 30 pages in and I've learned that he was hired out to a law firm known to be the mouthpiece for the DNC, oh, and that he claims some sort of client confidentiality privilege that isn't recognised as valid.
A bit of a weasel as he sits beside his three lawyers, but apparently a very well paid weasel, (from other sources.)
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2535 on: February 01, 2018, 08:41:19 PM »
We will soon see how much Paul Ryan is committed (or not) to Trump's obstruction of the Russia investigation:

Title: "Nancy Pelosi asks for Devin Nunes to be removed as intelligence chair: 'Put an end to this charade'"

http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-pelosi-calls-for-speaker-to-remove-nunes-1517503509-htmlstory.html

Extract: "House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says fellow Californian Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Tulare) should lose the chairmanship of the powerful House Intelligence Committee over his handling of the Russia investigation and a memo Republicans say discredits the FBI’s role in a separate investigation.

Pelosi (D-San Francisco) said in a letter to House Speaker Paul Ryan that Nunes’ insistence on making the memo public over the FBI and Justice Department’s objections that it is inaccurate and contains classified information is putting the House of Representatives’ integrity at stake."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2536 on: February 01, 2018, 09:37:17 PM »
The both sides appear to be squaring-off in a knife fight between the FBI (aka the Jets) and the WH (aka the Sharks), in a turf battle for control of the Russia investigation:

Title: "White House worried FBI director could quit over Nunes memo release"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/01/politics/white-house-worried-wray-nunes-memo/index.html

Extract: "Top White House aides are worried FBI Director Christopher Wray could quit if the highly controversial Republican memo alleging the FBI abused its surveillance tools is released, multiple sources with knowledge of the situation tell CNN.

Wray has made clear he is frustrated that President Donald Trump picked him to lead the FBI after he fired FBI Director James Comey in May, yet his advice on the Nunes memo is being disregarded and cast as part of the purported partisan leadership of the FBI, according to a senior law enforcement official.

Wray's stance is "raising hell," one source familiar with the matter said."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2537 on: February 01, 2018, 09:58:13 PM »
Unless the Democrats gain control of the House after the midterm elections, Mueller might have to play games just to get his finds into Congressional leadership hands for them to even consider impeachment.

Title: "Mueller’s Endgame"

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/how-robert-mueller-can-ensure-congress-sees-any-case-against-donald-trump.html

Extract: "How he can ensure that Congress sees any case against Donald Trump.

Extract: "A problem for Mueller, sometimes acknowledged but more often ignored or glossed over, is that he has no independent authority to secure an indictment against a sitting president.

A still more fundamental problem, at least if one hopes that any criminal behavior committed by Trump and uncovered by Mueller might result in the former’s removal from office, is that even a felony conviction would not eject the president. Only impeachment performs that trick. So, if Mueller concludes that Trump did commit a crime and he wants Congress to know about it, he needs a way to present his conclusions to Congress. Unfortunately, he has no independent authority to release the results of an investigation that doesn’t produce an indictment.

However, there are at least two ways Mueller can force the DOJ’s hand, or at least make it easy for Congress to do so. Both approaches would comply fully with Mueller’s limited mandate and the department’s internal rules. First, Mueller could prepare a report and recommendation that Trump be indicted after he leaves office and trust that Congress would find means of obtaining the report. Alternatively, Mueller could recommend immediate indictment, fully expecting rejection of that recommendation, and rely on the technicalities of the Justice Department’s own rules to ensure transmission of his recommendation and reasons to Congress.

It seems quite likely that a Justice Department under increasing pressure from the White House would make every effort to keep the report secret. On the other hand, there is nothing in the special counsel regulations or any applicable law that requires secrecy in such a case. If it were to become known that such a report existed, someone in Congress could request it. And if Democrats gained control of either house of Congress in 2018—a precondition for impeachment in any case—they would also gain the power to subpoena the report.

Suppose, however, that Mueller were to decide that Trump has committed crimes and that Congress should know of that conclusion promptly. Suppose further that Mueller were not disposed to rely on the vagaries of midterm elections and still less to wait for the expiration of the Trump presidency. In that case, there is another path.

The DOJ’s special counsel regulations provide that if a special counsel proposes an action that the DOJ rejects because it would be “inappropriate or unwarranted under established Departmental practices,” then the responsible party at the DOJ must notify both the chairs and ranking minority members of both the House and Senate Judiciary Committees of the special counsel’s proposed action and an “explanation” of the reason for rejecting that action.

Hence, Mueller would be operating entirely according to protocol if, while not actually presenting an indictment to a grand jury, he recommended to Rosenstein that Trump be indicted. He would, of course, realize that doing so would contravene an existing OLC opinion. However, there would be nothing untoward if he concluded, with the concurrence of the superb appellate lawyers on his staff, that the OLC opinion should be reconsidered. OLC conclusions are subject to internal re-evaluation all the time."
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Susan Anderson

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2538 on: February 01, 2018, 11:15:53 PM »
Quote
@Terry. "give me a hint"

The best part, to my eye, was towards the end (page 125 or a bit before), where it got a little less about confirming that Simpson and Steele were not "in the tank". He does, again and again, have to explain his professional work and the constraints of preparing background for law firms and who owns the work. There are specifics about Rybolovlev and Russian background, his realization that Veselnitskaya might be a bit more than she had seemed, etc. He was alert about Manafort because he'd seen him before and his role was dubious at best.

I searched on the word suggestion, and it turns out my memory was faulty. Around or after page 60 it gets really interesting with his suggestions for further work to confirm the facts, when he's asked for open-ended ideas as to how US authorities can use their power to find more confirmation about money laundering, Russian mob activities, Jared, etc. etc. There may be more about this later, but that's all I have time for now.

The redactions of committee member names don't hide which are Republicans doing their best to smear Simpson and Steele and label the whole thing a hit piece (sometimes I think you agree with them and will dismiss it).

Simpson is quite clear about his work ethic and independence, and his contacts with the Perkins law firm. If you read the first document (which I didn't link, here http://docs.house.gov/meetings/IG/IG00/20180118/106796/HMTG-115-IG00-20180118-SD001.pdf), it's a meeting the previous week where he was under subpeona and the Democrats and lawyers pointed out that the actual Russian co-conspirators were treated gently and whistleblower Simpson and Steele are being treated harshly. He's right to have his law firm represent him. You would too if you were in his shoes, in a partisan witchhunt bent on proving that he is a criminal and his work can thus be dismissed.

If you just tell yourself he's lying every time he explains that I can't help that. I don't understand why you appear to be so eager to support Trump and Congressional Republicans and Putin's oligarchs. Trump's history has been out there for all to see for decades; he started out with Daddy - KKK activist - mommy (not nice) - Roy Cohn (McCarthy) - and Roger Stone (still around) learning from the masters how to make a lot of money in the nastiest and most hurtful way possible.

I continue to assume that you can exercise some proper skepticism and common sense, but as time goes on and you keep dismissing ever more evidence, one does wonder how you can support the Trump-Putin-oligarch nexus against all comers.

There's an intriguing quote about catching Moby Dick and not knowing how to proceed near the end. And, of course, the gossip and kompromat stuff were MI6 Steele's concern and not his; he wanted to know about the money laundering and other nefarious connections.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2539 on: February 02, 2018, 12:35:38 AM »
The linked article indicates that both Mueller and Flynn have requested a three month delay in the sentencing for Flynn; which means that their cooperation is proving mutually satisfying and that Mueller may recommend a more leant sentence if he continuous to get such good value for the dollar:

Title: "Special counsel seeks delay in scheduling Flynn sentencing"

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/robert-mueller-michael-flynn/index.html

Extract: "Attorneys for former national security adviser Michael Flynn and the special counsel's office told a federal court on Wednesday evening they are not ready to schedule a sentencing hearing for Flynn.

The government was set to deliver a status report on Flynn's case to the court Thursday, but both sides have asked to delay the deadline for that report until May 1."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2540 on: February 02, 2018, 12:46:50 AM »
Why is Trump's campaign entitled to continue spending about 25% of its intake on legal fees associated with the Russia investigation unless Russia was part of Trump's campaign?

Title: "About 25% of Trump’s Re-election Spending Continues to Go to Lawyers"

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/us/politics/trump-campaign-spending-russia.html

Extract: "President Trump’s re-election campaign raised $15.2 million in the last three months of last year, and spent $1.2 million on legal fees — with much of the cash going to law firms responding to investigations of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election — according to campaign finance reports.

The reports, filed with the Federal Election Commission on Wednesday evening, indicate that Mr. Trump’s campaign and two fund-raising committees it formed with the Republican National Committee — Trump Victory and Trump Make America Great Again — entered this year with $32.3 million in the bank."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2541 on: February 02, 2018, 03:46:08 AM »
The Democrats are learning how to fight:

Title: "Rep. Eric Swalwell Drops Hammer on Devin Nunes: He’s a Potential Target of Russia Investigation"

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2018/02/rep-eric-swalwell-drops-hammer-devin-nunes-hes-potential-target-russia-investigation.html
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2542 on: February 02, 2018, 03:57:08 AM »
It looks like Mueller has flipped Rick Gates:

Title: "Lawyers for Rick Gates withdraw"

https://www.axios.com/attorneys-for-rick-gates-1517536874-7c905be3-8fa1-4a15-afd9-ab4c667cc70b.html?source=sidebar

Extract: "Three lawyers for Rick Gates, the Trump campaign aide and Paul Manafort business partner who was indicted in October by Robert Mueller, are withdrawing as counsel, Politico reports.

Why it matters: As Politico notes, "speculation has been mounting that [Gates] might be seeking to cooperate with the Mueller investigation."

What's next: Gates' criminal trial isn't expected to begin until September."
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2543 on: February 02, 2018, 04:53:44 AM »
[edit] So far that method shows that PropOrNot.com is spot-on in determining (Russian) propaganda.

First of all, we don't even know to what extent Russia was involved in MH17, as it is still under investigation. But this isn't about that issue, it's about whether we should accept and listen to what independent, critical media have to say on any kind of issue. With your McCarthyist logic, we shouldn't even listen to them, because they fail to say the 'correct' things about MH17. That is indeed a sad logic.

Well, I don't hold any hope that you would embrace evidence-based reasoning on this matter, but pointing out that a web site promotes Russian conspiracy theories about MH17 is not McCarthyism.
It's simple fact checking.
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sidd

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2544 on: February 02, 2018, 06:51:01 AM »

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2545 on: February 02, 2018, 03:28:30 PM »
Well-written opinion/analysis piece on the Nunes memo, due to be released possibly today:

Don’t Believe the Liberal F.B.I.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/01/opinion/dont-believe-the-liberal-fbi.html
Quote
. . .Thanks to reporting on the memo, we know that Rosenstein, a Trump appointee, saw fit to apply for this warrant’s renewal. This suggests that one of the most senior figures in Trump’s own Justice Department thought it was credible that Trump had someone compromised by Russia on his campaign. Only in a crazy alternate universe does that exculpate the president.

Unless, that is, you believe that it is illegitimate for intelligence agencies to be watching Trump associates. And to believe that, you have to start with the premise that Trump is innocent and the agencies are corrupt. The controversy around the Nunes memo works to insinuate these assumptions into the public debate. It may also give Trump the very thinnest of pretexts to fire Rosenstein, which would be a first step toward attempting to shut down the Russia investigation.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2546 on: February 02, 2018, 04:32:25 PM »
Whether Mueller is empowered to indict a sitting president or not, Mueller may well go ahead and indict Trump this Spring both to get Congress' attention as to the seriousness of our current situation, and to allow the courts to decide whether Mueller has the power to indict, or not:

Title: "Russia probe lawyers think Mueller could indict Trump"

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/02/trump-russia-indictment-mueller-probe-384969

Extract: "Many legal scholars doubt a U.S. vs. Trump case is possible, but two attorneys who have dealt with special counsel Robert Mueller's team disagree. One expects Mueller to move as early as this spring."
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2547 on: February 02, 2018, 04:58:40 PM »
If Trump were innocent in Russiagate, why would he care, one way or the other, as to whether Manafort flips, or not?

Title: "The ‘state’ of Donald Trump? He thinks it couldn’t be better."

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2018-state-of-the-union-address/state-donald-trump-he-thinks-it-couldn-t-be-better-n842501

Extract: "Donald Trump is telling friends and aides in private that things are going great — for him.

Some reasons: He's decided that a key witness in the Russia probe, Paul Manafort, isn't going to "flip" and sell him out, friends and aides say."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2548 on: February 02, 2018, 06:50:09 PM »
The memo has been released & can be read at the linked website:

Title: "The Nunes memo has been released"

https://www.axios.com/read-nunes-memo-fbi-doj-fisa-mueller-7fb8bcb7-1f18-4294-aa95-628d2f67bcdf.html

Extract: "President Trump has approved the release, without redactions, of the classified Nunes memo on alleged FISA abuses, a White House official told Axios. The release was vehemently opposed by the intelligence community, with the FBI issuing a rare public statement to express its "grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy.""
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #2549 on: February 02, 2018, 08:08:20 PM »
Rachel Maddow sums it up:
Quote
LOL

A year attacking the Steele dossier.

A month hyping that the dossier started the whole FBI investigation.

Weeks hyping that they have a memo (a memo!) that will finally prove it!

So... is there some other memo?

Because this one says it was Papadopoulos, not the dossier.
https://twitter.com/maddow/status/959486962649493506