Who owns the North Pole?

[Mr.Far]

As climate change has led to record sea ice decline, the Arctic has surfaced as a region of global geopolitical relevance and the international attention zooming in on the Arctic turn it to the object of territorial claims. The Arctic states have carried out extensive research for years, often in joint operations, to prepare their CLCS (UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf) submissions.

Denmark’s claims are based on the idea that Greenland’s continental shelf naturally continues to from the Lomonosov Ridge. But according to scientists, the Lomonosov Ridge is a natural extension of the Eurasian continental margin into the Arctic Basin.

More than that, according to the experts, in its claim Denmark used the published Russian scientific data, in particular, the geological information. Have the Danes really engaged in ‘geological plagiarism’ just to get the titbit?

[Sleepy]

Primarily indigenous people like the Inuit and Saami.



Edit; instead we westerners yell at them for doing the same things they've been doing, long before corporations and governments got anywhere near their area.
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/inuit-father-faces-online-backlash-after-sharing-photo-of-beluga-harvest

[GoSouthYoungins]

Bears.

(possibly Jews, of course, but I think bears)

[Pmt111500]

Bears thougj are on the losing side so how about whales? Anyway, Salty Sea Water can be obtained way easier by going to ocean shore and filling up a bottle. Stuff it in the freezer overnight if you like ice.

[GoSouthYoungins]

Bears thougj are on the losing side so how about whales? Anyway, Salty Sea Water can be obtained way easier by going to ocean shore and filling up a bottle. Stuff it in the freezer overnight if you like ice.

wtf?

[Pmt111500]

Bears thougj are on the losing side so how about whales? Anyway, Salty Sea Water can be obtained way easier by going to ocean shore and filling up a bottle. Stuff it in the freezer overnight if you like ice.

wtf?

I don't know either. Probably some sort of glitch in my patchy grammar.

[Sleepy]

GSY, that's probably Finnish for "who knows why this thread was started".

A more serious answer to this thread might be; no-one.

[etienne]

I hope we agree that the north pole should be a sanctuary like Antartica is. And I guess this is not the right time to make stupid jokes related to WWII ideology now that so many people are triing to push us in the same mental configuration, just maybe not with the same enemy. Even if you just share that we were wrong about them, they are good people, but other type of people are not, you activate behaviors that I hope never to see again.

[Pmt111500]

GSY, that's probably Finnish for "who knows why this thread was started".

A more serious answer to this thread might be; no-one.

I'd like to add that there's no fixed pole in the approximate location.

[Sleepy]

Yep, and anyone exploring the Arctic for this

should be treated as criminals.

As a matter of fact, I would like to see a world wide ban of all new FF exploration and construction immediately. It will hurt, but anything less will hurt more.

[TerryM]

I hope we agree that the north pole should be a sanctuary like Antartica is. And I guess this is not the right time to make stupid jokes related to WWII ideology now that so many people are triing to push us in the same mental configuration, just maybe not with the same enemy. Even if you just share that we were wrong about them, they are good people, but other type of people are not, you activate behaviors that I hope never to see again.

Could you expand on the bolded?
I think I'm fully in agreement, but having it spelled out would help.
Thanks


I do think we're a little late for an Arctic Sanctuary. Too much development in place by some. Too much political baggage devoted to "ownership" by others.
I can't even imagine where or how it could begin.
Terry

[etienne]

I hope we agree that the north pole should be a sanctuary like Antartica is. And I guess this is not the right time to make stupid jokes related to WWII ideology now that so many people are triing to push us in the same mental configuration, just maybe not with the same enemy. Even if you just share that we were wrong about them, they are good people, but other type of people are not, you activate behaviors that I hope never to see again.

Could you expand on the bolded?
I think I'm fully in agreement, but having it spelled out would help.
Thanks


I do think we're a little late for an Arctic Sanctuary. Too much development in place by some. Too much political baggage devoted to "ownership" by others.
I can't even imagine where or how it could begin.
Terry

Germany has many issues with the AFD, which has many things in common with right extremist groups. There are many similitudes with speaches that are done right now and what has been done in the 1930'. The US also have issues with the alt right, democracy isn't working so well in many democratic countries.
When there was that comment that the bears own the north pole, possibly a religious group, but he thinks the bears, I wanted to stress that creating connections between religious groups, racial groups, whatever kind of group brings us back to a speach were people are not considered as people anymore, but are classified according to whatever parameter can be selected for a specific purpose.
That type of comments creates as first reaction, not that religious group, but other ones, and that's what right extremists want, lets get together to fight the devil which can clearly be indentified as people carrying this specific parameter.
People are catch in a system, just like we all are, that is disrupting climate, I believe that only respect and solidarity could help, and avoiding stupid jokes is the first step. Maybe we can laugh of everything, but not everywhere, and Internet is the first place where we have to be careful.

[GoSouthYoungins]

I believe that only respect and solidarity could help, and avoiding stupid jokes is the first step.

I'm kinda confused. Do you consider it offensive to suggest that Jews are successful at owning things? Or was it that I posted a photo of "whites only"?

For clarification: I do believe that black bears are just as good as white bears. However, despite them being equal, I think they should be kept separate 

(Honestly, at first I thought you were taking offense on behalf of russians (bears). I now understand you think I'm a Nazi)

[TerryM]

Somehow I don't think that we're communicating yet.


ESL brings it's own set of problems to the mix, but I don't think anyone was either glorifying Nazis, nor accusing others of being Nazis.


If we all don't cooperate, we'll all fry.


Besides, we all know that Santa Claus is a proud Canadian.
Terry

[Archimid]

yeah, GSY is a Trump troll. I've known it for a while because his stance is the same as Trump and through his language and positions but the blatant and proud racism really nails it.

 Their plan is simple. Do nothing about climate change, see the world crumble and then bring about an era of homogeneity and perfection. Climate change should take care of the unfit but the "superior" will be fine.

It gives me pleasure to know that if they succeed in killing off all climate action, they will pay dearly regardless of their "superiority". The fools are blinded by their sense of entitlement.

[oren]

I'm kinda confused. Do you consider it offensive to suggest that Jews are successful at owning things? 

Considering that this has been a slander against jews for quite a long time, that they "own the world" and other such nonsense, then yes, certainly this was offensive.

[Archimid]

In his circles this is merely a mild joke. Not even racist if relative to the things they say when no one else is looking. But he is too much of a coward to admit his hate and fear of those different form him. The poor bastard has to pretend he is a decent human being or else be excluded. Of course that is changing. The sense of superiority chumps like Trump and Putin give their kind is irresistible.

[GoSouthYoungins]

oh the evil things i say when no one is around. wahahahaha.

I really don't understand how it is a slander of a peoples to say they own a lot of stuff. it strikes me as more of a compliment than an insult. and jews do own a severely disproportionate amount of stuff...good for them.

but alas yes, it is a common trope, "Jews own the world"...hence why I made the joke. I had assumed my other proposed possibility of "bears" might help non-idiots to realize I was not being serious in my answer. I seem to have forgotten the audience.


hey archimid, what stance of mine is the same as trumps? i can't seem to think anything up, but apparently you know, so go ahead and inform me.

I also love how you have me pegged for a trump-supporting white white-supremacist who goes on sea ice forums and tries to hide his true feelings due to cowardice. 0% accuracy ...congrats...thats actually impressive.

(confession: I do watch Man in the High Castle, and I thought that the "Seig Hail" scene from S3E1 was amazing...oh no, maybe I am a Nazi)

[Archimid]

It does not matter if you know it or not. You work for Trump and against climate change action.

You rhetoric here is right in line with Trump's official stance. Climate change is real, is bad, and there is nothing we can do about it. That is nonsense. There is plenty that can be done to preserve the best things about modern civilization. What is required is urgent action, like Tesla is doing.  Tesla is acting. Tesla actually has solutions for climate change. And that's why you want Tesla to fail. You want bears to be separated but equal. You think climate change will move along that process. Tesla gets in your way.

I'm done with this discussion.

[GoSouthYoungins]

It does not matter if you know it or not. You work for Trump and against climate change action.

You rhetoric here is right in line with Trump's official stance. Climate change is real, is bad, and there is nothing we can do about it. That is nonsense. There is plenty that can be done to preserve the best things about modern civilization. What is required is urgent action, like Tesla is doing.  Tesla is acting. Tesla actually has solutions for climate change. And that's why you want Tesla to fail. You want bears to be separated but equal. You think climate change will move along that process. Tesla gets in your way.

I'm done with this discussion.

You work for Trump

Fascinating. I still haven't received my checks. How Trumpian of him to stiff me!

"there is nothing we can do about it"

Well that's actually the exact opposite of what I say. And you are well aware of that. You don't like that I believe in different solutions and that I don't think your solutions have the possibility of being very effective. So you just paint me however you please. You are a real nasty piece of work.


On topic: So we settled on gentile bears?

[etienne]

but alas yes, it is a common trope, "**** own the world"...hence why I made the joke. I had assumed my other proposed possibility of "bears" might help non-idiots to realize I was not being serious in my answer. I seem to have forgotten the audience.

That is clearly the point, a common trope in a specific cultural context can be extremely chocking in another one. Internet mixes all the cultural contexts on earth and so we have to be extremely careful when making internal jokes.
When I read this, I see the AfD walking in the streets. Do you know that in some parts of Germany, if you want to adopt a black child, you have to be ready to sale your house to move in another part of the country if required for the social integration of the child ? I'm sorry to tell you that overhere, this is not a joke, it is chocking.

[gerontocrat]

This thread is "Who owns the North Pole?". How did it get polluted with sly allusions to Jews and non-whites? I have seen too much of man's inhumanity to man fuelled by differences in race and religion - it behoves us all to keep at least some places - e.g. the ASIF - clean of this filth.

On topic -
The North Pole does not exist, it is a concept as are zero and infinity. So really the thread is about who is going to rape and pillage the resources of the Arctic.

Countries bordering the Arctic Ocean can rape and pillage the Arctic Ocean up to 200 miles from shore.

There are international agreements covering exploitation of the rest of the Arctic. I believe there are fisheries agreements and an international organisation that looks at deep sea mining proposals. All these can be torn up by any country at any time.

[RealityCheck]

This thread is "Who owns the North Pole?". How did it get polluted with sly allusions to Jews and non-whites? I have seen too much of man's inhumanity to man fuelled by differences in race and religion - it behoves us all to keep at least some places - e.g. the ASIF - clean of this filth.

Agreed. Joking or not, this 'trope' has way too much baggage of history attached.

On topic: the SR15 report from IPCC implies clearly that no country should start to extract fossil reserves from an untouched area like the arctic. Given the present international mood though, what are the chances of collective agreement and observance of this notion by all relevant countries? Between slim and zero, I suspect.

[be cause]

if anyone 'owns' the north pole it's surely Putin . This thread looks like his buddies work . The smell is rotten in here .. I shall take my leave .. b.c.

[GoSouthYoungins]

if anyone 'owns' the north pole it's surely Putin . This thread looks like his buddies work . The smell is rotten in here .. I shall take my leave .. b.c.

Thank you! I'm glad you see what's really going on here. Can you inform Putin though? He keeps ignoring my invitations to game night, and it's honestly starting to hurt my feelings.

[Neven]

Let me show you how it's done:

Go South Youngins: It was just a silly joke, didn't mean to offend anyone. I'll be on-topic now.

Archimid: Your joke wasn't funny, and I understand your skepticism with regards to Green BAU. I just don't share it, because I don't think there's any alternative. Okay, back on-topic now.

 

[Archimid]

I disagree that is the way it is done for blatantly racist and provocative commentary. The stereotype and hate perpetuated by these comments is not cancelled out by the apology or the light playing. It is reinforced.

In your scenario you assume I accept this as a simple joke. Jokes are very powerful rhetoric. This was not a joke. This was planting a flag. A call to all others afraid of people different than them. And just in case, I'm not talking about GSY intentions. I'm talking about the inevitable results of his racist rhetoric.

[GoSouthYoungins]

I disagree that is the way it is done for blatantly racist and provocative commentary. The stereotype and hate perpetuated by these comments is not cancelled out by the apology or the light playing. It is reinforced.

In your scenario you assume I accept this as a simple joke. Jokes are very powerful rhetoric. This was not a joke. This was planting a flag. A call to all others afraid of people different than them. And just in case, I'm not talking about GSY intentions. I'm talking about the inevitable results of his racist rhetoric.

Blatantly racist? Like against jews? You should probably ask if im Jewish before posting this sort of insanity.

<We communicate via words here, no tone, no gestures, no body language, and so there's a lot more interpretation and projection going on than normally, plus almost everybody is anonymous. To tango, two partners are easily found. You're both a bit right and a bit wrong, and this discussion is over now; N.>

[etienne]

Blatantly racist? Like against jews? You should probably ask if im Jewish before posting this sort of insanity.

<We communicate via words here, no tone, no gestures, no body language, and so there's a lot more interpretation and projection going on than normally, plus almost everybody is anonymous. To tango, two partners are easily found. You're both a bit right and a bit wrong, and this discussion is over now; N.>

Good idea, tell us who you are, which means for example if you are a jew, if your skin is black, were you live, how old you are, what kind of job you do, what are our main insterests in life and why you think that it is funny to say that black bears shouldn't mix with white bears. Afterwards, I can do the same, just that I believe that I already explained enough why I think that your black bear/white bear joke is stupid.

[GoSouthYoungins]

Blatantly racist? Like against jews? You should probably ask if im Jewish before posting this sort of insanity.

<We communicate via words here, no tone, no gestures, no body language, and so there's a lot more interpretation and projection going on than normally, plus almost everybody is anonymous. To tango, two partners are easily found. You're both a bit right and a bit wrong, and this discussion is over now; N.>

Good idea, tell us who you are, which means for example if you are a jew, if your skin is black, were you live, how old you are, what kind of job you do, what are our main insterests in life and why you think that it is funny to say that black bears shouldn't mix with white bears. Afterwards, I can do the same, just that I believe that I already explained enough why I think that your black bear/white bear joke is stupid.

my skin is not black. however, according to the Elizabeth Warren standard I am definitely black cuz I'm 1/64th black. I'm jewISH. I farm, I do earthbag construction, and I coach referees. im mostly interested in "soccer" and political policy.  I co-own a retain business I was managing but I quit to move closer to my wife's and my families, and to spend more time writing books.

I do think jokes about race and religion and gender are funny. I think humor is valuable, and the type of the joke matters as do the underlying implications. The joke I made about Jews owning the north pole isn't poking fun at Jews for being very successful as a group. The joke is poking fun at people who think everything is part of a Jewish conspiracy. The separate but equal joke I made was poking fun at you for not understanding the Jew joke wasn't anti-semitic. Because I had originally made the Jew and the bear joke together, yet you seemed convinced the Jew joke wasn't a joke without acknowledging that the bear joke was obviously a joke. I was making fun of the fact that you were finding evil where there was none so i took it to the next step and joked there must have been an underlying evil to the original bear joke as well.

I hope my bizarre bio and joke explanation relieve all of there fears of hidden nazis on this forum. (although, my last name is german...oh no, here we go again)

[Neven]

Do dick pics count as evidence wrt jew question?

I mean, who does own that North Pole?

Nothing like a good joke to get the miscommunication going... 

[etienne]

Well, before talking of the north pole, I also have to do my part of the deal. I'm a not too active catholic, white european, engineer, working mainly on buildings and renewable projects, quite interested in politics and non violence, very happy that Oscar Romero was sanctified, I'm not far from 50. I hate jokes about races and religions because you never know if people mean it seriously, maybe I am more sensitive because I have adopted kids. Sorry that I misunderstood you, but please understand me that it is hurting me deeply. I was last summer at Omaha beach and Utah beach (Normandy), I visited Auschwitz, Majdaneck before the fall of comunism... it's just awful to see what extremism can do, it's why I like so much that sentence of Gandhi "Never let one say that you are a follower of Gandhi, you are no followers but fellow [...]", even when you follow an extremist, you are personnaly responsible for what you do.

[gerontocrat]

Do dick pics count as evidence wrt jew question?

Nope. In the UK in the years after WW2, in the UK the Docs decided that circumcision would reduce infections in children .  I was one of the victims of that STOOPID idea.

My best mate was a Catholic. His mum did not let the Docs mutilate him.

Humans are weird.
_______________________________________________

The North Pole does not exist. That means nobody and everybody can own it.

[GoSouthYoungins]

etienne, apology accepted. and i'm sorry that my joke came off wrong.

also, i am circumcised but these pics aren't turning out as hoped...I'm trying the old fish perspective trick but alas I'm still coming up short...the 1/64 black just isn't enough I guess. Oy vey ist mir!

[NeilT]

I'm with the Bears. This means, as the indigenous, they can be declared both subhuman and incompetent and their "lands" can be taken and distributed by the ones with the biggest "stick".

[Mr.Far]

Some new thoughts on the theme...

Denmark and the Lomonosov Ridge: underlying reason for the claim

When Copenhagen presented in 2014 a claim to the UN, arguing that the area surrounding the North Pole -– is connected to the continental shelf of Greenland, the former Foreign Minister Martin Lidegaard named it a “historic and important milestone” for the country. Denmark’s bid for 895,000sq km of the Arctic Ocean sounds particularly audacious given that the country lies on the same latitude as Britain – more than 2,000 miles from the North Pole. The main accent has been made on economic benefits of the application pointing out that as much as 22 % of the world’s undiscovered and recoverable resources lay north of the Arctic Circle.
At the same time, Jon Rahbek-Clemmensen assistant professor at the University of Southern Denmark (Syddansk Universitet) says that the economic dimension of this territory is overstated because this part of the vast Arctic “probably has no resources whatsoever”. As he stresses “all geological estimates indicate that this particular area has neither oil nor gas – it’s just about lines on a map”.
So if the economic benefits of the disputed part of the Ridge are rather doubtful what is the underlying reason for such claim to the UN.
The Danish move has political rather than economic basis. Denmark’s interest is delivered from its “autonomous territory” (the more accurate description for colony), Greenland. As Rahbek-Clemmensen says, for the Greenlanders it’s “more about a feeling of nationhood, and being part of the Arctic”. Thus Copenhagen’s initiative is nothing else but urge to shore up its popularity in independence-seeking Greenland, where the claim is “very, very popular”.
Thorkild Kjærgaard, expert in history from the University of Greenland, agrees that the claim is designed to show the benefits of the union with Denmark: Greenland could never make such a claim on its own. He admits that the Danish claim for the Lomonosov Ridge competitive with Russian one is just Copenhagen’s desire to demonstrate that they support any Greenlandic application.
Kjærgaard acknowledges that the position of Denmark in this question is rather weak and the lack of hard evidence for the claim makes it difficult for Danish flag to rise over the North Pole.

[Mr.Far]

The extract from the BBC’s article:
Jon Rahbek-Clemmensen from Syddansk University said the government in Copenhagen had staked its claim, partly to show the world that Denmark could not be pushed about, but also to prove a political point to the people of Greenland.
“There is a strong push for independence in Greenland and Denmark wants to show it’s capable of taking its interest into account” he told the BBC
“By taking this step, Copenhagen is sending a signal [to the Greenland]: ‘Listen, we’re on your team’.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world\-europe\-30481309
or
Why does Denmark think it can claim to the North Pole?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2014/dec/16/why\-denmark\-thinks\-it\-can\-lay]\-claim\-to\-north\-pole