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Stephan

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Trends in atmospheric CH4
« on: July 11, 2019, 09:59:23 PM »
The February 2019 numbers of methane were recently published:
February 2019:     1865.4 ppb
February 2018:     1856.2 ppb
Last updated: June 05, 2019
The March 2019 numbers of methane were recently published:
https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends_ch4/
March 2019:     1866.4 ppb
March 2018:     1857.5 ppb
(increase by almost 9 ppb)
Last updated: July 05, 2019
Eyeballing from the graph the increase was a little lower than March 2018, but bigger than March 2017.

Stephan

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2019, 09:46:13 PM »
The April numbers of methane were published today:
April 2019:     1865.8 ppb
April 2018:     1856.7 ppb
Last updated: August 05, 2019
Yearly increase a little bit higher than 9 ppb.
Highest ever recorded April value since measurements started. An increase of 14,4 % since 1983.

______
Source: https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends_ch4/

bligh8

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2019, 05:18:53 PM »
The Leaks That Threaten the Clean Image of Natural Gas
https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2019GL082635

 Abstract
Urban emissions remain an underexamined part of the methane budget. Here we present and interpret aircraft observations of six old and leak‐prone major cities along the East Coast of the United States. We use direct observations of methane (CH4), carbon dioxide (CO2), carbon monoxide (CO), ethane (C2H6), and their correlations to quantify CH4 emissions and attribute to natural gas. We find the five largest cities emit 0.85 (0.63, 1.12) Tg CH4/year, of which 0.75 (0.49, 1.10) Tg CH4/year is attributed to natural gas. Our estimates, which include all thermogenic methane sources including end use, are more than twice that reported in the most recent gridded EPA inventory, which does not include end‐use emissions. These results highlight that current urban inventory estimates of natural gas emissions are substantially low, either due to underestimates of leakage, lack of inclusion of end‐use emissions, or some combination thereof.....more within the article.
Sorry if this was posted b4...did not see it in search




TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 02:37:03 PM »
I'm reasonably sure that this was discussed some years ago - possibly on our sister site?


It's worth revisiting & I'll join the conversation tomorrow.


Fair Warning
Terry

bligh8

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 02:52:27 PM »
Good Morning Terry

Yea, there has been many papers/articles posted about this unnecessary/unattractive area of NG.
..A bridge to no ware..  comes to mind.  I see Berkley CA became the first city no ban NG, hopefully others will follow.  It's still a little early around here and quiet, a good time to tend my garden.

Have a day
bligh

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 02:13:38 PM »
IIRC
My conclusion at the time was that cities, particularly older cities needed to require their gas supplier(s) to repair and maintain their infrastructure.


The wellheads were problematic, the intra-city higher pressure pipelines were doing a decent job, but the low pressure, low volume system and marginally profitable at best distribution networks were in need of very expensive repairs.


Raising the costs of gas for all users is probably the only way to pay for these repairs without making it a city responsibility and taxing the whole community to benefit those distributing or using the energy.


Abandoned lines don't need to be repaired, they simply need to be identified and separated from the system - again as the responsibility of the supplier who had been feeding those networks.


I strongly believe that NG has a place in our energy systems, at the very least until coal has been eliminated.
Terry

bligh8

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 03:18:35 PM »
Terry

They came through my neighborhood about 4/5 yrs ago and replaced all the low pressure lines in the street and the lines running up to the house meters.  I might think that this was a state wide effort knowing the economics of the township in which I live, still, I'm guessing here.

I see we have some shared history, I've a master's degree in "street"  mostly NYC downtown east side, alphabet city, dark days.  Got out in 87 just before the A-Train came into town...pure luck.

I do not have, nor could I guess at a reasonable response to our current FF problem only that I might think that we should STOP digging the crap up and let the cards fall will they will.
I would prefer a controlled decent into chaos rather than let's just set the planet on fire.

bligh   
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 03:23:44 PM by bligh8 »

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2019, 02:42:26 AM »
Yea
I thought my second time through was pushing it. :-[  But I take it we both ended up on our feet.


Fixing the pipes is far more economical than replacing every gas appliance with it's electrical counterpart.


It wasn't so long ago in California that area heating with resistance coils was as illegal as lighting a pathway using NG lights. Heat your bath water with a resistance heater and watch that meter spin. San Francisco can get damn cold - and recently a little too warm for comfort. The power draw in inclement weather is going to make it even harder for PG&E to make a comeback after that ridiculous court decision.


If your price for a product doesn't cover the costs of maintaining your infrastructure you're structurally bankrupt and some one will be stuck with the bill. Better a little squawking now than lots of screaming later when gas can't be supplied.


Where I'm at everything's electric, but my electricity isn't even metered, it's wrapped in my (controlled) rent. - another situation that would be illegal in California, Oregon, Nevada or Arizona.


Berkley has been known to be out on the bleeding edge for half a century. Hope this isn't the misstep that flings them to the ground.


Keep your mast pointing upward.
Terry

DrTskoul

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2019, 03:25:27 AM »
Terry

They came through my neighborhood about 4/5 yrs ago and replaced all the low pressure lines in the street and the lines running up to the house meters.  I might think that this was a state wide effort knowing the economics of the township in which I live, still, I'm guessing here.

I see we have some shared history, I've a master's degree in "street"  mostly NYC downtown east side, alphabet city, dark days.  Got out in 87 just before the A-Train came into town...pure luck.

I do not have, nor could I guess at a reasonable response to our current FF problem only that I might think that we should STOP digging the crap up and let the cards fall will they will.
I would prefer a controlled decent into chaos rather than let's just set the planet on fire.

bligh

Either way it will not be very controlled...

KiwiGriff

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2019, 08:23:39 AM »
This fits here somewhat.

Ideas and perspectives: is shale gas a major driver of recent increase in global atmospheric methane?
Abstract
Quote
Methane has been rising rapidly in the atmosphere over the past decade, contributing to global climate change. Unlike the late 20th century when the rise in atmospheric methane was accompanied by an enrichment in the heavier carbon stable isotope (13C) of methane, methane in recent years has become more depleted in 13C. This depletion has been widely interpreted as indicating a primarily biogenic source for the increased methane. Here we show that part of the change may instead be associated with emissions from shale-gas and shale-oil development. Previous studies have not explicitly considered shale gas, even though most of the increase in natural gas production globally over the past decade is from shale gas. The methane in shale gas is somewhat depleted in 13C relative to conventional natural gas. Correcting earlier analyses for this difference, we conclude that shale-gas production in North America over the past decade may have contributed more than half of all of the increased emissions from fossil fuels globally and approximately one-third of the total increased emissions from all sources globally over the past decade.
https://www.biogeosciences.net/16/3033/2019/
The fracked gas boom is not the breathing space on the way to carbon free some wish for.

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2019, 11:39:34 PM »
^^
That was unexpected.


I knew fracked gas was dirty. I didn't think it was that bad.
Poland with her insistence on coal + LNG from fracked wells could use up the entire EU's CO2e budget.
The US with fracking and Trump is out of the race.
China is building new thermal coal plants.
Canada needs her Tar Sands.
India is burning anything combustible.
and the UK faces more blackouts.


Lets build more EVs boys, it's the only way out of this hole.
Terry


nanning

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2019, 07:43:24 AM »
And give them to all non-rich chinese, indian and african people as an act of compassion  :-* (their airquality) and an act of selfless  ;D international cooperation in mitigation.
"It is preoccupation with possessions, more than anything else, that prevents us from living freely and nobly" - Bertrand Russell
   Simple: minimize your possessions and be free and kind    It's just a mindset.       Refugees welcome

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:42 PM »
And give them to all non-rich chinese, indian and african people as an act of compassion  :-* (their airquality) and an act of selfless  ;D international cooperation in mitigation.
We could give them the EVS, and sell them the electricity!
Immolation is a traditional Hindu thing is it not? ::)
Terry

FishOutofWater

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2019, 04:35:24 PM »
That report that fingers fracked methane may be correct but the math does not give a unique solution. There are multiple possible sources of changes in C-13/C-12 ratios. The article correctly points out that fracked gas has a different ratio that gas from traditional gas reservoirs because of oxidation reactions that take place when gas migrates to a reservoir. However, there are other possible sources that might also produce the observed change in isotope ratios. There's no bad science here but the results are ambiguous and other researchers have fingered other possible sources such as Asian agricultural activities including rice growing.

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2019, 06:02:24 PM »
That report that fingers fracked methane may be correct but the math does not give a unique solution. There are multiple possible sources of changes in C-13/C-12 ratios. The article correctly points out that fracked gas has a different ratio that gas from traditional gas reservoirs because of oxidation reactions that take place when gas migrates to a reservoir. However, there are other possible sources that might also produce the observed change in isotope ratios. There's no bad science here but the results are ambiguous and other researchers have fingered other possible sources such as Asian agricultural activities including rice growing.


If the choice is blaming Asian subsistence farmers or North American job providers I know who gets my support. 8)
Terry

Stephan

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2019, 09:48:11 PM »
The value for May 2019 has been published:
May 2019:     1862.8 ppb
May 2018:     1854.8 ppb
Last updated: September 05, 2019
An annual increase of 8 ppb, slightly lower than the increase in the last months.

Stephan

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2019, 10:33:25 PM »
The value for June 2019 has been published:
June 2019:     1860.2 ppb
June 2018:     1852.0 ppb
Last updated: October 05, 2019
The annual increase of 8.2 ppb is roughly equal to the one from May 2019.

TerryM

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Re: Trends in atmospheric CH4
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2019, 12:36:20 AM »
Possibly related to S&Ss latest findings from Siberia.

"the scientists did not need special plastic cones that were prepared to collect methane. Water "boiling" with methane bubbles could be scooped up with buckets."


"It is manifested by an increase in methane concentration in air up to 16 ppm (millionths of a share), which is 9 times more than the average planetary values. No one has ever registered this before! "


Hat tip to Kassy
Terry


Re: Arctic Methane Release
 Reply #1087 on: Today at 12:41:58 PM