Change your mind - Build - Share - Evolve

[Laurent]

http://www.ted.com/talks/marcin_jakubowski.html
Personally I think when the C02 is released, it is too late ! The cost to get it back is infinite because it would require more energy than you will use, so the ideas shown in that movie is great but some more design would be required to make it with even less energy, real local material (you do not find metal bars in your garden) and energy efficient to use.

[Jim Hunt]

This may not have been uppermost in your mind when you started this topic Laurent, but here's an "open source" hydrogen fuel cell passenger vehicle:

http://www.riversimple.com/

[Laurent]

I can think of a lot of things !!!
The car is an other version of a tractor, a bit more complex.

There is also the oscar project
http://www.theoscarproject.org/

The mdi should be built in France, it does use compressed air.
I don't think they can drive on our roads yet (political issue?) !
That is certainly the best option from now !
http://www.mdi.lu/english/

http://localmotors.com/

Not too much success the electric vehicules !?
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ez-ev-open-source-electric-kit-car?website_name=ZWheelz

http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/tumanako/index.php?title=Main_Page

That's different : http://open.enernoc.com/
May be of some interest for you ?

What I do not want is this type of thing !!! It does sound cool ! But it is not ! They take some space from someone somewhere, they have released a huge load of carbon to make this site, once it is in the atmosphere it is too late !
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/01/volkswagen-solar/

We have to start from the basics, equality is one of them, equality for the people for the access to the resources (solar, land...) but I am thinking more basically where does the materials I am using are coming from, how was it made, I must do it locally, with some renewable resources (lithium, cadmium, beryllium, uranium, thorium... are not renewable resources )...

Trying to make some materials locally, as hard as steel is a big challenge, do you have some ideas ?
When you got that, you can think of going further !
Replacing copper is an other challenge because it does cost more and more. When the real financial crisis will occur the price of copper will increase even further ! How do we make an electric vehicle without copper ?

[Artful Dodger]

The cost to get it <C02> back is infinite because it would require more energy than you will use

Hi Laurent,

No, this is not true! Otherwise, nature could not have sequestered all that carbon that we have released so foolishly. The key is energy balance.

Natural systems like wet lands, forests and grasslands use the incoming energy to fix carbon rather than letting that energy raise the temperature of the earth. We must use this principle of physics to our benefit.

We can restore natural systems to sequester CO2, but it seems first we need to educate the bloody fools wearing the $2,000 suits on Wall Street. That is a formidable task, since they don't want to learn.

[Laurent]

Of course it is true, if you let these same bloody fool fixe the price it is not true, but if you let me fixe the price...ohoh yes it is infinite !

I never said we cannot store CO2 ! That's what I am trying to do !

Can we start something seriously ? I ask how to make natural material hard like steel (nearly would be enough) it is not a joke. I can tell you how to make a natural paint nice, easy and cheap !
50% of  cottage cheese 0% fat  + 50% lime + 25 % killed plaster
I'll try different formulas in the next days.

Laurent

[Laurent]

How to make fresh water from salty water !?
Simple but smart ! (this is an english video)

[Laurent]

Interesting program mixing scientist-prison-nature-sustainability (in USA)
http://sustainabilityinprisons.org/

[Laurent]

Have you ever consider changing your mind about growing food not only for yourself but for others and for free ? Some people are doing it !
http://www.incredible-edible-todmorden.co.uk/
try this video :
http://www.incredible-edible-todmorden.co.uk/blogs/incredible-edible-film

[Laurent]

A nice quote I want to share:

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” Richard Buckminster Fuller

[Artful Dodger]

A nice quote I want to share...

Très à propos, Laurent.

It reminds me of this quote from the Oct 2003 issue of The Economist

“THE Stone Age did not end for lack of stone, and the Oil Age will end long before the world runs out of oil.” This intriguing prediction is often heard in energy circles these days. If greens were the only people to be expressing such thoughts, the notion might be dismissed as Utopian. However, the quotation is from Sheikh Zaki Yamani, a Saudi Arabian who served as his country's oil minister three decades ago. His words are rich in irony. Sheikh Yamani first came to the world's attention during the Arab oil embargo of the United States, which began three decades ago this week and whose effects altered the course of modern economic and political history. Coming from such a source, the prediction, one assumes, can hardly be a case of wishful thinking.

Ten years on since this article was published, and no sign of let up in the world's addiction to oil.

[Neven]

Oh, the addiction is still there, alright, but the price of heroin has tripled in the last couple of years. The easy shots are gone.

[Laurent]

We are addicted to oil but sureley addicticted to energy and power, a few people are really addicted but it is addictive to many !
We have to restrain or wishes, or desires, the greatest win (war) is not against someone but against ourselves ! Like the earth is seeking a thermodynamical equilibrium our brains cannot work properly if only positive commands are sent we need inhibition also !
As we are starting to see very weird thing, that will go on and accelerate soon after total melting of the Arctic, so if the constrain does not come from inside, it will be from our environment. Even the Arab peninsula will be hit, you can be sure of it !

[Laurent]

Activate the subtitle to get English !
!
Amazing way of growing food, i have learned quite a lot !
We can have some doubts about the electro stuff at the end...well if you want to try...!

[NeilT]

We can restore natural systems to sequester CO2, but it seems first we need to educate the bloody fools wearing the $2,000 suits on Wall Street. That is a formidable task, since they don't want to learn.

Flood the sahara sub sea level basin then use solar desalination to turn it into a forest rather than a desert...  It's not as large as the "Sahara Sea" envisioned before air contour mapping and satellite mapping.  But there is a clear area below sea level and it would provide the water source to make the desert bloom.  That kind of change also modifies local climate too.

Of course you would then have to defend it from the people who wanted to take over, cut the trees down, burn them and turn the land back into desert, factories and use the water for industry....

Such is life...

[NeilT]

The site is very good but very vertical.  I've registered and am awaiting a mail to see if I can be let in.

Then I can give away another idea.

[Laurent]

How to make a fridge without electricity


I guess that is what this indian is using to make is fridges (half the video).
(good to hear Hindi)


(Neilt : What site are you talking about ?)

[Laurent]

Simon Velez an architect that build with bamboo


One of the secrets is to use cement and steal to join the bamboos
Part1


Part2

[Laurent]

What is a mooc ?
Not clear isn't it !?

You can check moodle (it is in the linux Debian/Ubuntu/linuxmint package !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moodle
If you know something more please mooc, mooc...
https://moodle.org

[Laurent]

I did not read it but someone sent me this link about the methode used by Fukuoka and bonfils (later on), it may interest you :
It is about growing plants, especially wheat !
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0g3FAJuk5j_eC16R2xGQTNIVkk/edit?pli=1

[Laurent]

I am not concerned but stil if it can help someone...also it will reduce the amount of carbon in the atmospher finally yes I am concerned   


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cup

[ccgwebmaster]

I am not concerned but stil if it can help someone...also it will reduce the amount of carbon in the atmospher finally yes I am concerned   


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menstrual_cup

I think they're also a good way to address that issue in the initial context of a collapse scenario.

It's odd, isn't it - that so many people are so fast to think about the security implications of a collapse scenario (the likely need to defend against others, potentially using firepower) and so slow to think about this side of things. I remember my ex wife (before she was ex) telling me I shouldn't even be thinking about this side of things at all when I mentioned it... I said, OK, not really my problem.

With many of these things, a good starting point is to look at what happens in the poorer African nations. The answers may not always suit western sensibilities, but in many cases they are practical and environmentally friendly (eg elimination communication instead of diapers/nappies).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elimination_communication

For that matter reuseable diapers/nappies used to be far more widespread in use even in western societies, they're a good example of the trend towards consumption for the sake of it and for the perceived gain in convenience without regard for consequences. Elimination communication has the additional advantage that it doesn't leave you needing to perpetually wash a lot of soiled fabric (notwithstanding scope for occasional communication failures). In the event of collapse, it seems rather optimistic to assume one could keep manufacturing hygiene items (with the possible exception of soap) as a high priority for precious materials and labour.

Oh, and then there's toilet paper...

[Laurent]

Damned ccgwebmaster, toilet paper...that will be hard to do without !!!???
(I am using dry toilets so the japanese system with water jet cleaning is not really cool)

[Neven]

Plant a tree with very big leaves, Laurent! 

[ivica]

Plant a tree with very big leaves, Laurent! 

Catalpa, I have one such in the backyard

[Neven]

And have you ever tried it? 

[ivica]

Never that I remember. The tree is here 50+ y, who knows what happened when I was a kid. Anyway, leaves are very large, soft, and seemingly safe. Surely better than leaves of kiwi or fig

[ivica]

Neven,
here are a few examples collected from byd, just to put that stuff into perspective, attached.
What over winter? Hmm, Mail is cheap this days... Naah, you could get an infection. 

[Laurent]

There is also the Pawlonia with big leaves !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia
I tested a few times chestnut leaves as toilet paper and I can tell you it  does not work very well !!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia

I Like 3D printing and the idea of printing with ceramic is brilliant, add that a simple design very powerful with delta system !

[Shared Humanity]

Leaves might be a solution as a replacement for toilet paper but don't exclude the use of corn cobs or sticks fashioned for this purpose. You need to be certain, however, not to get the "short end of the stick".

Etymology of "short end of the stick"

In the days of outhouses, often there were outhouses with multiple "holes" so that more than one person could relieve him(her)self at a time. Before the time of toilet paper, corn cobs or a stick shaped like a shoe horn was used for "hygienic cleaning." It was rather a short spatula device with a longer handle. Well, if one person was done, he could request that the person using the adjoining hole pass the stick. Of course the person with the stick would pass it to the other person by holding the long end of the stick. The recipient would therefore receive it holding the "short end of the stick."

[ccgwebmaster]

Etymology of "short end of the stick"

In the days of outhouses, often there were outhouses with multiple "holes" so that more than one person could relieve him(her)self at a time. Before the time of toilet paper, corn cobs or a stick shaped like a shoe horn was used for "hygienic cleaning." It was rather a short spatula device with a longer handle. Well, if one person was done, he could request that the person using the adjoining hole pass the stick. Of course the person with the stick would pass it to the other person by holding the long end of the stick. The recipient would therefore receive it holding the "short end of the stick."

Fascinating.

It's exactly this sort of simple and yet generally underappreciated and unknown information that I think people may benefit from later on as collapse arrives and the plentiful cheap consumable and disposable items that have come to underpin the existence of western societies in even the most fundamental matters are no longer obtainable.

I must still admit to a few reservations about the notion of sharing said stick though.

[Laurent]

How cuba survived peack oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEF19NV_3SE&feature=youtu.be#

[ggelsrinc]

On the subject of: Change your mind - Build - Share - Evolve , I think the problem is getting governments to support conservation efforts. As far as your OP and it's link is concerned, I'm not fat and hydroxycitric acid isn't going to help me or our world.

Americans are fat because they eat an unhealthy diet. I've studied nutrition and the only cure is to stop putting junk in your cake hole. If it took years to put on pounds, it will take years to remove them, so good nutrition is the key to success and not starvation. Exercise is also very important.

It's just like our world and if it's screwed up over many years, it takes many years to fix it. There is no silver bullet/fast fix.

Don't get me wrong, though! With a person or people willing, nearly all things can be fixed. People are that powerful.

[TerryM]

Laurent
Your Cuban video is very good. I love the country & must get back there again. A few things that I recall are the freight tricycles operating throughout Havana, the pony carts browsing on median grass on the freeway leaving the city & the water buffalo plowing fields for the small farmers.
The people I met were very healthy, very well educated and friendly to a fault. Cuba maintained it's healthcare system and education through the rough times & this is paying huge dividends. Every American should visit if only to learn how different the reality of Cuba is when compared to the propaganda you grew up believing. Spend time wandering through Havana & visiting rural villages far from the tourist beaches. You'll find a society that finds happiness without excessive consumption, a government that cares for it's people & just possibly a light at the end of the dark tunnel that western culture is racing through.
Terry
PS
The Cuban government does not stamp the passports of American Citizens so you won't be faced with questions when you return home.

[ggelsrinc]

Laurent
Your Cuban video is very good. I love the country & must get back there again. A few things that I recall are the freight tricycles operating throughout Havana, the pony carts browsing on median grass on the freeway leaving the city & the water buffalo plowing fields for the small farmers.
The people I met were very healthy, very well educated and friendly to a fault. Cuba maintained it's healthcare system and education through the rough times & this is paying huge dividends. Every American should visit if only to learn how different the reality of Cuba is when compared to the propaganda you grew up believing. Spend time wandering through Havana & visiting rural villages far from the tourist beaches. You'll find a society that finds happiness without excessive consumption, a government that cares for it's people & just possibly a light at the end of the dark tunnel that western culture is racing through.
Terry
PS
The Cuban government does not stamp the passports of American Citizens so you won't be faced with questions when you return home.

What makes you think we don't know about what Cuba was and did? Oh, you lived in California!

[TerryM]

gg
I've lived in Arizona, California, Oregon, Nevada and Ontario. Not sure just what your point re. California was.
Cuba was and remains one of the nicest places I've ever visited. The scenery is stunning, the officials are not officious and the people are capable of intelligent conversation even when language barriers present themselves.
For many decades America has demonized Castro and Cuba - the reality is far different than what Americans have been told.
Terry

[ggelsrinc]

gg
I've lived in Arizona, California, Oregon, Nevada and Ontario. Not sure just what your point re. California was.
Cuba was and remains one of the nicest places I've ever visited. The scenery is stunning, the officials are not officious and the people are capable of intelligent conversation even when language barriers present themselves.
For many decades America has demonized Castro and Cuba - the reality is far different than what Americans have been told.
Terry

I don't have a problem with Castro, his bother or any other person trying to put nuclear missiles a few miles away from Florida. The problem becomes, when you try to do it and fail, it's your problem. Cold wars are cold enough and will not chill this planet.

[Laurent]

Dancing is also a good simple thing to stay healthy, keep social relation and enjoy life without spending much energy (apart body energy)

[ggelsrinc]

Dancing is also a good simple thing to stay healthy, keep social relation and enjoy life without spending much energy (apart body energy)

That's true enough, Lauent, but it's hard to find good dancers in America, when the music dies.



I went to Parris Island listening that song and it was playing when I got the hell out of there. It's so long I imagined it was the same song. I figured it out later. 

[Laurent]

Roman Seawater Concrete Holds the Secret to Cutting Carbon Emissions
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/

[ggelsrinc]

Roman Seawater Concrete Holds the Secret to Cutting Carbon Emissions
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/

Your article:

“In the middle 20th century, concrete structures were designed to last 50 years, and a lot of them are on borrowed time,” Monteiro says. “Now we design buildings to last 100 to 120 years.” Yet Roman harbor installations have survived 2,000 years of chemical attack and wave action underwater.

Source: http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/

Our concrete doesn't reach maximum strength until 50 years and try cutting or drilling a hole in our old concrete! Believe it or not, we make concrete much stronger than the Romans could ever dream of doing, but it's created by our design requirements. That doesn't mean the Romans didn't create and apply advanced technology during their time and deserve their due credit for doing so. The simple chemistry they discovered and used is still used today in a more modern way. We have evolved!

[Laurent]

I am not sure we have evolve much, being dependant on oil is not an evolution!!!
Don't forget it is all about energy efficiency !!!

[ggelsrinc]

I am not sure we have evolve much, being dependant on oil is not an evolution!!!
Don't forget it is all about energy efficiency !!!

Is that one of those there is no me in we definitions?

There are solutions that haven't been implemented and require building when the time is right. In the mean time, share and evolve. That isn't hurting anything.

[Neven]

Is that one of those there is no me in we definitions?

You're doing it again... 

[ggelsrinc]

Is that one of those there is no me in we definitions?

You're doing it again... 

How many people on this site use their feet for transportation, even if they have thousands of dollars in their pocket? How many have actually spent their money reducing the carbon imprint, instead of polluting our atmosphere?

The me in the we point is important and something that shouldn't be ignored in a thread like Change your mind - Build - Share - Evolve. It's called discussion and discussion isn't always agreeing with what the norm dictates. Those few words I said are simple and very important, because Truman is dead and the me in we stops here. Think about it, am I off topic?

If you want the only voice in your forum to keep parroting the "we are all going to die" mantra that's fine with me. If I can't speak my mind against such nonsense, I'll leave. Limiting discussion to that degree sounds like brainwashing to me and if someone needs brainwashing to be convinced of the serious problems facing our world, a forum isn't the way to accomplish that. We would need a CIA rendition program to even come close to perfecting doing that and firing squads.

It's your forum, so I'll check in in a couple days to see how you want it to conduct itself, maybe!

 

[Neven]

If I can't speak my mind against such nonsense, I'll leave.

If you keep judging people you don't know, snarking (directly as well as indirectly) and displaying your moral and scientific superiority, I won't stop you.

[wili]

+10

"judging people you don't know"

This is a reaction I've seen from a certain class of posters on a variety of sites. The assumption seems to be that if anyone is saying anything gloomy about the future then they must be completely dispirited, depraved, and hypocritical.

Anyway, thanks again for all your work here, and congrats on your home.

If anyone does want to measure their effect on the planet, here's one handy (if flawed, as is inevitable) measure: http://www.myfootprint.org/

[Laurent]

Naomi Klein: How science is telling us all to revolt
http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/science-says-revolt

[Laurent]

Thanks to Dermot O connor !
Exactly the same information than Al Bartlet but very entertaining !

A bit gloomy at the end...let's have hope...and move our asses... !

[Shared Humanity]

Roman Seawater Concrete Holds the Secret to Cutting Carbon Emissions
http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/

Your article:

“In the middle 20th century, concrete structures were designed to last 50 years, and a lot of them are on borrowed time,” Monteiro says. “Now we design buildings to last 100 to 120 years.” Yet Roman harbor installations have survived 2,000 years of chemical attack and wave action underwater.

Source: http://newscenter.lbl.gov/news-releases/2013/06/04/roman-concrete/

Our concrete doesn't reach maximum strength until 50 years and try cutting or drilling a hole in our old concrete! Believe it or not, we make concrete much stronger than the Romans could ever dream of doing, but it's created by our design requirements. That doesn't mean the Romans didn't create and apply advanced technology during their time and deserve their due credit for doing so. The simple chemistry they discovered and used is still used today in a more modern way. We have evolved!

I do believe pointing to technology as evidence of our evolving is inaccurate. Yes we have developed amazing breakthroughs in science and their application. This is not evolution. We are Homosapiens with better tools.

I do however believe that our survival depends on us evolving and this needs to occur in the areas that define us as human beings. Instead of the hard sciences, we need to concentrate our efforts on the social being, our spirits, and work to re-establish an intimate relationship with each other and the biosphere.



Doing this slows us down and relegates technology and material possessions to the appropriate relationship with humanity, mere tools.

This intimate relationship can be gardening; it can be simple walks through nature and, most wonderfully, it can be highly creative.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2013/12/16/251615317/the-amazing-snow-art-of-simon-beck?live=1&utm_content=socialflow&utm_campaign=nprfacebook&utm_source=npr&utm_medium=facebook

[JimD]

SH

..I do however believe that our survival depends on us evolving and this needs to occur in the areas that define us as human beings. Instead of the hard sciences, we need to concentrate our efforts on the social being, our spirits, and work to re-establish an intimate relationship with each other and the biosphere....

I agree with your description of what we need to do but we are not really talking about 'evolving' here as to evolve requires the passage and selection process of a large number of generations.  While, if we survive this crisis, we may have time to evolve along the above lines we do not seem to have the time to change via that method.

We have to use our supposed intellectual powers to make a conscious choice to behave in a manner which, while it will facilitate our survival, is contrary to our currently evolved nature.  A very tough thing to accomplish.  We are not currently demonstrating that we are capable of doing this.  Though I do still harbor such hopes.