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Tom_Mazanec

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Why CHAZ failed
« on: August 02, 2020, 12:13:54 PM »
Here is another look at CHAZ:

How CHAZ Got CHOPped: Seattle Made Itself a Petri Dish of Polluted Liberal Ideas
https://thegreatrecession.info/blog/how-seattle-chaz-got-chopped/
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First, notice the word “protest” is not even in the constitution. The more orderly sounding and peaceful word used is “petition,” and the only manner in which petitioning your government is protected in the US constitution is clearly stated as “peaceably.” If you are petitioning your government in any way that is not peaceable, you are not protected constitutionally, nor is your behavior advocated.

There is nothing in the constitution saying people can disturb the peace. There is nothing saying they can block streets. Nothing saying the can break things to express their rage. There is nothing saying they can laser police officers in the eyeballs or throw things at the police. This is all lawlessness, and the constitution expresses no protection for it whatsoever.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2020, 12:35:59 PM »
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First, notice the word “protest” is not even in the constitution.

Well, there is the First Amendment. Protest is speech. So this is bogus from the beginning.

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The more orderly sounding and peaceful word used is “petition,”

Nope, that's another thing. It's also speech, but another form.

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and the only manner in which petitioning your government is protected in the US constitution is clearly stated as “peaceably.”

If the author wants peaceably protests, he can have it. 99% of protesters are peaceful and are punished for that with tear gas, lethal and less-lethal weapons, they are getting disappeared by GeStaPo troops, and police brutality (the very thing they protest).

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If you are petitioning your government in any way that is not peaceable, you are not protected constitutionally, nor is your behavior advocated.

That translates to "human rights are only for the ones who keep quiet". That's fascistic. That's Naziism.

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There is nothing in the constitution saying people can disturb the peace.

Would be nice if the police were doing that BTW.

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There is nothing saying they can block streets.

The constitution also does not state that you are allowed to breathe. Does that mean you are not allowed to breathe? WOW, this article is something. Defying logic and reason on a whole new level.

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There is nothing saying they can laser police officers in the eyeballs

Of course, it does. You are not allowed to cause bodily harm. If someone does that there will be a judge ruling over them. The government has every right to punish the people who do that.

But again, this does not invalidate the 99% of peaceful protesters.

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This is all lawlessness, and the constitution expresses no protection for it whatsoever.

Again, conflating things in a malicious way. This author is a fascist. The US is supposed to be a democracy though.

Tom, how come you are posting stuff like this? What do you think you are achieving? Are you aware you are carrying the water for the ideology the US fought in the second world war and that you are pissing on the graves of everyone who lost his life to fascism?

May i ask, did your grandfather fight against the Nazis?
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2020, 02:00:42 PM »
My grandfather fought the Kaiser. My father was supposed to invade Japan, but a couple big firecrackers turned that into occupation duty and probably saved his life.
This article describes what happened at CHAZ, and how it fell into anarchy and warlordism. That is what happens when you get rid of the police. There are over two thirds of a million police officers in the United States, and 99% of them are heroes risking their lives to protect us from the muggers, rapists and murderers.
EDIT: What I am trying to prevent is this defund the police meme that has sprung up. If we end the police we will all end up as CHAZ.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

bbr2315

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2020, 02:22:12 PM »
My grandfather fought the Kaiser. My father was supposed to invade Japan, but a couple big firecrackers turned that into occupation duty and probably saved his life.
This article describes what happened at CHAZ, and how it fell into anarchy and warlordism. That is what happens when you get rid of the police. There are over two thirds of a million police officers in the United States, and 99% of them are heroes risking their lives to protect us from the muggers, rapists and murderers.
EDIT: What I am trying to prevent is this defund the police meme that has sprung up. If we end the police we will all end up as CHAZ.
Strongly agree. Naive liberals on the street will support this new neo-liberal push for they are naive and stupid. "Abandon the police" is the rich looking to reduce tax burden by dismantling law enforcement. They can hire bodyguards and gate guards while the rest of the country kills itself and they will sit back and not give a f*ck.

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2020, 02:28:09 PM »
There are over two thirds of a million police officers in the United States, and 99% of them are heroes risking their lives to protect us from the muggers, rapists and murderers.

Police work is not at all a high-risk job. Half of police officers killed at the job died in car accidents BTW.

Link >> https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/27/the-10-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-according-to-bls-data.html

Link >> https://eu.usatoday.com/story/money/careers/2018/01/09/workplace-fatalities-25-most-dangerous-jobs-america/1002500001/

Police work is not what keeps you safe. A functioning society is!

On the contrary, the police is killing law obeying Americans in tropes.

Link >> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/series/counted-us-police-killings

Some of them are heroes. But mostly they are not. Many are just pathetic assholes who enjoy having power over others.

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This article describes what happened at CHAZ

No, it doesn't. It's an exaggerated propaganda piece riddled with lies and false assumptions.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2020, 02:30:29 PM »
"Abandon the police" is the rich looking to reduce tax burden by dismantling law enforcement

LOL, that's a whole new narrative. Good one, Bbr.

Tell me, who is this neoliberal who said: "Abandon the police". Give me just one.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

bbr2315

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2020, 02:42:04 PM »
"Abandon the police" is the rich looking to reduce tax burden by dismantling law enforcement

LOL, that's a whole new narrative. Good one, Bbr.

Tell me, who is this neoliberal who said: "Abandon the police". Give me just one.
Any major news outlet amplifying the rallying cry is owned by Neoliberal billionaires. AKA NYTimes, WaPo, etc. You think Jeff Bezos gives a f*ck about black people or do you think he wants to pay less taxes? How ironic that his media outlet that is supposedly "woke" is surely funded on the backs of wage slaves (black and otherwise) who toil endlessly and permanently in horrible working conditions.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2020, 02:44:12 PM »
List and document the specific lies in the article, b.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2020, 02:48:34 PM »
Any major news outlet amplifying the rallying cry is owned by Neoliberal billionaires. AKA NYTimes, WaPo, ... Jeff Bezos ...

I want one concrete example from you (with a link please). A neoliberal calling for "Abandon the police". Only one.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 02:50:05 PM »
List and document the specific lies in the article, b.

Erm, i did!

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First, notice the word “protest” is not even in the constitution.

Well, there is the First Amendment. Protest is speech. So this is bogus from the beginning.

And there is a lot more in my post if you bother to read it.
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

bbr2315

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 02:53:19 PM »
Any major news outlet amplifying the rallying cry is owned by Neoliberal billionaires. AKA NYTimes, WaPo, ... Jeff Bezos ...

I want one concrete example from you (with a link please). A neoliberal calling for "Abandon the police". Only one.
Have you literally not read the NYT + WaPo? All they do is this...

glennbuck

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 02:55:32 PM »
The City that Really Did Abolish the Police

Behind that image is a years long story of how Camden officials transformed policing in a city where the murder rate was once on par with Honduras. The police were despised by residents for being ineffective at best and corrupt at worst. Today, violent crime in the city has decreased, and police officers are a regular presence at community block parties.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 02:56:23 PM »
Have you literally not read the NYT + WaPo? All they do is this...

So you can't actually give me one single example of a neoliberal calling for "Abandon the police".

Count me surprised. #not!
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 04:03:03 PM »
No, you did not refute any facts in the article. You took exception with their interpretation of the Constitution but did not invalidate their list of events which occurred in CHAZ.
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

be cause

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2020, 04:34:47 PM »
How can you talk about CHAZ without mentioning Dave ?
2007 + 5 = 2012 + 4 = 2016 + 3 = 2019 + 2 = 2021 
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bbr2315

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 04:48:05 PM »
The City that Really Did Abolish the Police

Behind that image is a years long story of how Camden officials transformed policing in a city where the murder rate was once on par with Honduras. The police were despised by residents for being ineffective at best and corrupt at worst. Today, violent crime in the city has decreased, and police officers are a regular presence at community block parties.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/06/12/camden-policing-reforms-313750
So basically if you stop policing and reporting murders, the numbers go down. DO you think anyone wants to move to Camden for their lack of a police department, or is it an abandoned urban slum?

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 05:19:55 PM »
This is for you, Bbr:

"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 05:21:23 PM »
So basically if you stop policing and reporting murders, the numbers go down.

Is that really so hard to understand? Why is that?
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 05:25:18 PM »
Bbr, about your Jeff Bazos wants to save taxes argument.

Amazon paid tax rate of 1.2% on $13B in profits last year

Link >> https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/amazon-federal-income-taxes-2019

If there was any merit to your argument, why isn't he rallying to cut military spending then? Way more goes there, right?
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

sidd

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 09:49:37 PM »
Re: Camden

For my sins, I go thru there couple times a year or more.

Camden is still quite a hellhole. But reform of the police department has certainly helped. It was real bad there in the late nineties, early 2000s. Or drivers locked the truck doors and windows driving around there, several of them got concealed carry permits, and they were about as scared of being stopped by police as a carjacker.

Dont get me wrong, there were parts of Philly that was true too. Philly needs police reform as well. That new DA Krasner is doing good, but the police department hates his guts.

sidd

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2020, 03:26:08 PM »
Maybe there will be a few more neighborhoods like CHAZ soon:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/07/31/defund-police-covid-19-force-deepest-cop-budget-cuts-decade/5538397002/
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Nearly half of 258 agencies surveyed this month are reporting that funding has already been slashed or is expected to be reduced, according to a report slated for release this week by the Police Executive Research Forum, a non-partisan research organization.

Much of the funding is being pulled from equipment, hiring and training accounts, even as a number of cities also are tracking abrupt spikes in violent crime, the report concluded.

There is a rumor Seattle is ending the police department and replacing it with nonprofit programs and community activities:
https://twitter.com/realchrisrufo/status/1289226549749673984

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« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 03:38:42 PM by blumenkraft »
SHARKS (CROSSED OUT) MONGEESE (SIC) WITH FRICKIN LASER BEAMS ATTACHED TO THEIR HEADS

blumenkraft

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Re: Why CHAZ won!
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2020, 03:40:34 PM »
Why CHAZ failed >> It didn't fail. We are talking about it. This is a WIN! \o/

(recursive logic is my favorite kind of logic)
"Is a thin line 'tween heaven and here" - Bubbles

glennbuck

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Re: Why CHAZ failed
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2020, 12:15:00 AM »
Gun sales are booming as the Covid-19 pandemic wrecks the economy and volatile protests dominate the news. Handguns are flying off the shelves. And ammo is so hot, it’s hard to keep in stock.

The gun industry is experiencing a revival amid the worst economic contraction in history, fueled by fears of coronavirus, crime and civil unrest. Guns were in demand during the economic turmoil of the second quarter, as gross domestic product experienced a 33% plunge.

“This is unprecedented,” said Larry Hyatt, owner of Hyatt Guns in Charlotte, N.C. He said that sales doubled in March, after gun stores were declared essential businesses.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aaronsmith/2020/08/01/covid-19-and-civil-unrest-fuel-comeback-for-gun-industry/

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2020, 06:27:53 AM by blumenkraft »