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morganism

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eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« on: February 05, 2021, 09:31:26 PM »
Conclusions: Our analysis suggests that higher consumption of eggs (more than 1 egg/day) was not associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease, but was associated with a significant reduction in risk of coronary artery disease.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32653422/

JD

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2021, 02:58:10 PM »
This is a great talk about why cholesterol is not linked to heart disease.  Some very compelling reasoning in the interview, so worth listening to even if you are sure that cholesterol is a major factor in causing heart disease.

https://nourishbalancethrive.com/podcasts/nourish-balance-thrive/why-cholesterol-levels-have-no-effect-cardiovascul/

This is a very interesting piece about the history of the claim that cholesterol causes heart disease, and how behind the claim was a company wanting to persuade people to buy margarine, even though at the time margarine was thought to be very bad for your health (which may well be true).

https://drcate.com/cholesterol-what-the-american-heart-association-is-hiding-from-you-part-1/
https://drcate.com/cholesterol-what-the-american-heart-association-is-hiding-from-you-part-2/
https://drcate.com/cholesterol-what-the-american-heart-association-is-hiding-from-you-part-3/

On the basis of this and other sources I don't worry at all about cholesterol levels, and eat 2 eggs for breakfast every day!

oren

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2021, 04:28:44 PM »
I'm sorry JD but this is outright science denial and does not belong on this forum.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Malcolm_Kendrick

P.s. I eat eggs too, doesn't mean I can post denier links.

Tom_Mazanec

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2021, 05:32:53 PM »
Used to eat 2 eggs a day, just went down to 1.

Bruce Steele

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2021, 05:50:06 PM »
Chickens and the eggs they lay are very important to any survival food planning. I am pleased that they are healthy but when you’re hungry they are an important protein source and a few years less to live isn’t probably top of your decision matrix.
 Eggs or whipped egg whites can leaven cakes , cookies, or breads if you have nothing else available.
Palatability is important to enjoying your food and leavened cake is a big improvement on hard tack, IMO.
 Cooking doesn’t seem to get much attention , deserves more . I can’t imagine cooking without eggs.
The hens run loose , and they are enjoyable company around the farm. Beautiful really.

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2021, 03:47:13 AM »
and why cholesterol is helpful, they didin't know where it came from in the blood !

“When we eat more polyunsaturated fat, the cells collect cholesterol from the blood, and build it into the cell membranes to ensure that they become rigid enough. This is where the cholesterol has gone when we measure less cholesterol in the blood!”

And the opposite holds true as well – when we eat more saturated fat, the cell membranes become stiffer. The cells have less need to bring in stabilizing cholesterol and instead send it into the bloodstream. The cells also stop absorbing cholesterol, thus raising the blood cholesterol level.

In the second instance, Zinöcker arrived at another understanding:

The increase in blood cholesterol level as a result of more saturated fat in the diet may not be a sign of disease at all. On the contrary.

"The increased blood cholesterol level is probably a sign that the regulatory mechanisms in the body are working the way they should," says Zinöcker.

Perhaps the cholesterol in the blood of healthy people is simply a kind of emergency stockpile, which the body has at its disposal when the fluidity of the cell membranes needs to be adjusted.

“Cell stiffness is probably so important that the body doesn’t take a chance on covering the need exclusively through food,” says Zinöcker.

https://sciencenorway.no/cholesterol-fat-heart-attacks/new-model-could-explain-old-cholesterol-mystery/1810159

oren

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2021, 09:04:38 AM »
From the same article:
Quote
“The claim that the increase in LDL cholesterol is good and a sign of a healthy response is a premature interpretation. But should it turn out to be correct, then the authors have a big task if they want to prove that the high LDL cholesterol is beneficial,” says Retterstøl.

“I can hardly imagine high LDL being beneficial, because we know way too much about LDL's function for that,” he writes.

“It could be interesting if the HADL model turns out to bear fruit, but it doesn’t shake the fact we know – that saturated fat in the vast majority of people increases their LDL and that this in turn will increase their risk of cardiovascular disease,” Retterstøl says.

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2021, 01:31:02 AM »
Low-carbohydrate diets and all-cause and cause-specific mortality: Two cohort Studies

"A prospective cohort study of women and men, followed from 1980 (women) or 1986 (men) until 2006. Low-carbohydrate diets, either animal-based (emphasizing animal sources of fat and protein), or vegetable-based (emphasizing vegetable sources of fat and protein) were computed from multiple validated food frequency questionnaire assessed during follow-up"

The overall low-carbohydrate score was associated with a modest increase in overall mortality in pooled analysis (Hazard Ratio, HR, comparing extreme deciles=1.12 (95% CI=1.01-1.24, p-trend=0.14). The animal low-carbohydrate score was associated with a higher all-cause mortality (pooled HR comparing extreme deciles=1.23, 95% CI=1.11-1.37, p-trend=0.05), cardiovascular mortality (corresponding HR=1.14, 95% CI=1.01-1.29, p-trend=0.029), and cancer mortality (corresponding HR=1.28, 95% CI 1.02-1.60, p for trend = 0.09). In contrast, a higher vegetable low-carbohydrate score was associated with lower all-cause (HR=0.80, 95% CI=0.75-0.85, p-trend<0.001) and cardiovascular mortality (HR=0.77, 95% CI=0.68-0.87, p-trend<0.001).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2989112/

Human Habitat Index

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2021, 01:49:30 AM »
The Cholesterol Myth: Heart of the Matter (Part 1)



Heart of the Matter Part 2 - Cholesterol Drug War



In October 2013, Catalyst aired Heart of the Matter – a two part program dealing with statins, cholesterol and heart disease. Following a number of complaints, the ABC’s independent Audience and Consumer Affairs Unit investigated the programs. While acknowledging the importance of public health issues relating to the efficacy of heart disease treatment and the contrasting opinions of highly-qualified scientists, the A&CA has concluded that while both programs met the ABC’s editorial standards for accuracy, a section of part two was found to breach impartiality standards. The full investigation report can be viewed here http://about.abc.net.au/wp-content/up....

The host of these documentaries, which led to thousands of Australians stopping their statin medications was Dr Maryanne Demasi.

Dr. Maryanne Demasi - 'Statin Wars: Have we been misled by the evidence?'



There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is contempt prior to investigation. - Herbert Spencer

NeilT

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2021, 03:53:31 PM »
Yes, well, the doctors tried extremely hard to force Statins on me after my heart attack.  Even though my cholesterol is below the maximum and the results (I have them), show no cholesterol build-up on any of my arteries.  My problem was congenital atherosclerosis in my coronal artery which I have had since my early 20's (we know know).

They tried extremely hard to get me on Statins with Zero evidence that they were needed or that they would do any good.  I did go along with them for a short while until I realised that I suffer from the side effects of extreme muscle pain (documented).

Battle royal to get them to accept that I would not take them and also they refused to give me my HDL/LDL/Triglyceride results.  Just a homogenised number which was below the limit.

I follow a lower carb lifestyle with the majority of my meals chosen for lower carb content, I take no refined sugar in normal life, just treats.

They were most distressed to find someone of my age and BMI who was not over the top for Cholesterol or sugar.  In fact my sugar levels were totally normal.

In my experience most of the operational side of healthcare doesn't want to understand studies.  They just want guidelines and treatment regimes.  11% of Statin takers were better off than the other 89%?  Great, push Statins at everyone who has BMI over 29.

As for the Study on low carb from plant base and meat base?  If you look at the dates, the NHS was in total denial mode that Atkins had anything right at all and were trying to prove that their low fat diet was better than low carb.  They would clutch at any straw and Atkins said you can't do low carb on a vegetarian diet.  So they produced results which show that its better.

After the reanalysis of the 1950's cholesterol studies which, when analysed by computer with no preconceptions, found that the only reliable correlation they could find to deaths and cholesterol was LOW HDL cholesterol, I am deeply wary of health service studies on diet and nutrition and the benefits or otherwise.

BTW, plant based Low Carb diets produce LOW HDL.
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SimonF92

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2021, 05:04:44 PM »
Sorry to hear of your health complications.

Low grade atheromas would not be detected by coronary angiogram nor ultrasound (if carotids).

I agree that cholesterol is best managed by diet and exercise but I also err on the side that its advisable to listen to your healthcare provider regarding statin use.

Its also important to distinguish correctly between lipoproteins- its LDL which is associated with pathophysiological cardiovascular mechanisms. I can provide you with a number of studies which would say it better than me. This primary article is a good place to start

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5978933/

"""
a mean reduction of 0.85 mmol/l LDL-C reduced the risk of major atherosclerotic events (a composite of nonfatal myocardial infarction [MI], coronary death, nonhemorrhagic stroke, and arterial revascularization) by 17%,
""""
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NeilT

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2021, 01:01:56 AM »
Thanks Simon,

I was refused a coronary angiogram 3 times in the UK.  When I finally had my heart attack they found my coronary artery had reduced to less than 2mm.  It showed up all right and it was not cholesterol, I have the photo's.  Invisible artery before, visible artery after.

More concerning was that my heart (no heart disease, just artery disease), had been working so hard to pump blood past the constriction, that I had an aneurism at the beginning of the constriction.  I have a stent in that particular problem now and I'm back to where I was in my mid 20's with energy and physical power.  Not bad for a near 60 year old.

I still have a minor constriction in the coronary artery and the consultant advised me I'd need to get more stents fitted in the next 6-7 years or I _will_ have another heart attack.  No doubt about it, statins, no statins, cholesterol, no cholesterol, heart attack guaranteed.

Still, I was under a machine in under 1 hour after being brought into the first hospital.  That included a 40 minute transfer between hospitals with a police escort.  So I can forgive the French for not fixing me totally.  The UK didn't even bother to look!

Hence my somewhat aggressive response to doctors who just push pills at you because the "study" says it makes you better.  Can you imagine what a tripled dose of Antigen II blockers did to me with a massively constricted coronal artery.  The consultant didn't care that it was driving me into Angina attacks, just keep taking more.

I prefer a better approach.
Being right too soon is socially unacceptable.

Robert A. Heinlein

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2021, 11:58:36 PM »
Good cholesterol' may protect liver

HDL is mostly known for mopping up cholesterol in the body and delivering it to the liver for disposal. But in the new study, the researchers identified a special type of HDL called HDL3 that, when produced by the intestine, blocks gut bacterial signals that cause liver inflammation. If not blocked, these bacterial signals travel from the intestine to the liver, where they activate immune cells that trigger an inflammatory state, which leads to liver damage.

"Even though HDL has been considered 'good cholesterol,' drugs that increase overall HDL levels have fallen out of favor in recent years because of clinical trials that showed no benefit in cardiovascular disease," said senior author Gwendalyn J. Randolph, PhD, the Emil R. Unanue Distinguished Professor of Immunology. "But our study suggests that raising levels of this specific type of HDL, and specifically raising it in the intestine, may hold promise for protecting against liver disease, which, like heart disease, also is a major chronic health problem." In the study, the researchers showed that HDL3 from the intestine protects the liver from inflammation in mice."

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2021-07/wuso-cm072221.php

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2021, 11:15:18 PM »
this doesn't seem like a well researched article, and the citations referenced in the paper body aren't listed in the list, but going to put it here in the cholesterol section, because i wasn't familiar with this argument.

The Implications of Low Cholesterol in Depression and Suicide

"Data from the study was analyzed by researchers from the University of Minnesota, who found that people with total cholesterol levels lower than 160 mg/dL were more likely to commit suicide than those with higher cholesterol levels"

https://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/articles-1/2015/11/13/the-implications-of-low-cholesterol-in-depression-and-suicide

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2021, 09:02:48 PM »
Food myths busted: dairy, salt and steak may be good for you after all

A new Swedish study says decades of official dairy wisdom is wrong. Here, a nutrition expert examines more science that questions standard health advice

"Remember when public health advice was to eat no more than two eggs weekly? That pearl of wisdom was based on the mistaken idea that foods containing cholesterol are bad for you.
Does pasta make you fat? Eight food myths busted
Read more

When it became clear that eating cholesterol had no effect on the cholesterol profile of your blood, government advice was belatedly changed. Now it tells us: “There is no recommended limit on how many eggs people should eat.” Unfortunately, decades of top-down public health misinformation is hard to shift.

Many people are still unsure whether eggs are healthy or not, despite the fact that eggs are one of the most nutrient-rich foods you can eat."

https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/sep/26/food-myths-busted-dairy-salt-steak-swedish-study-science-health-advice

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2021, 12:25:02 AM »
New research highlights the damage caused by processed food

"First, the bad news: Consumption of ultra-processed foods increased from 53.5% of our average daily calorie intake in 2001 to 57% in 2018. Among specific foods, we saw increases in desserts like cookies and cakes, frozen meals (including pizzas), and ultra-processed fish and meat.

The good news: There were decreases in soda and other sugar-sweetened beverages and refined grain products like cereal and bread. Overall, sugar consumption has also decreased.

Consumption of minimally processed foods decreased by about the same percentage, mostly from less meat and dairy. The other two categories stayed relatively steady.

Among the notable demographic trends: adults over 60 ate more ultra-processed foods than other age groups, while Hispanics and college-educated adults consumed the least."

https://www.levelshealth.com/blog/new-research-highlights-the-damage-caused-by-processed-food

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqab270/6369073?login=true

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2021, 07:31:42 PM »
Mediterranean diet warning: If you’re not going organic, you may be doing your body more harm than good

"“Many of the synthetic pesticides detected in both food and urine samples in this study are confirmed or suspected endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDC). The 10 times higher pesticide exposure from conventional foods may therefore provide a mechanistic explanation for the lower incidence of overweight/obesity, metabolic syndrome and cancer associated with high levels of organic food consumption in epidemiological/cohort studies"

The researchers say it is too early for health officials to start recommending against the Mediterranean diet. They note that the study of 27 British students was small and more research is necessary to confirm the results.

“This study provides clear evidence that both our diet and the way we produce food may affect the level of exposure to synthetic chemical pesticides and ultimately our health,” adds Chris Seal, a professor from Newcastle University."

https://www.studyfinds.org/mediterranean-diet-organic-pesticides/

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advance-article-abstract/doi/10.1093/ajcn/nqab308/6412942?redirectedFrom=fulltext

morganism

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2021, 12:02:15 PM »
Consumption of coffee and tea and risk of developing stroke, dementia, and poststroke dementia

"    We found that coffee intake of 2 to 3 cups/d or tea intake of 3 to 5 cups/d or their combination intake of 4 to 6 cups/d were linked with the lowest hazard ratio (HR) of incident stroke and dementia.
    Drinking 2 to 3 cups of coffee with 2 to 3 cups of tea daily were associated with a 32% lower risk of stroke and a 28% lower risk of dementia.
    Intake of coffee alone or in combination with tea was associated with lower risk of poststroke dementia.

What do these findings mean?

    These findings highlight a potential beneficial relationship between coffee and tea consumption and risk of stroke, dementia, and poststroke dementia, although causality cannot be inferred."

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003830

johnm33

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2021, 10:56:12 AM »
16 above, 'obesity' from various recent studies I came to the view that the decimation of gut bacteria and consequent malnutrition, those bacteria not only help to break down input but also when functioning as an 'eco system' create nutrients otherwise unavailable, is a cause of obesity, principally through an 'enough' mechanism never being triggered. A celebrity, perfectly healthy, had their gut bacteria tested against someone who regularly donates some, to be served up as suppositories, to the ailing. The celeb had only 7% of the variety of the serial donor, the serial donor had less than 20% of the variety of that from an african hunter gatherer.
+ Just recalled some thoughts I had around the time of ^, if a single species grazes land year after year the land goes 'sower' so maybe the health of the soil is co-dependent on and a transmission vector of gut bacteria?+

Perhaps pesticides eliminate a lage proportion of the gut flora leaving only the fauna and fungi functioning no?
 I suspect excessive mutagenic pesticides also leads to the near epidemic levels of 'minor' birth defects I hear about.
'cadiovascular' Most of my friends and relations who've had issues of this kind have had dental problems, more than 50% had a 'crisis' shortly after a visit to the dentist. The bacterial colonies which form plaques in and around tooth roots, presumably to inhibit action fom the immune system and oxygen, are the same bacteria which cause plaques which block arteries
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 08:48:49 PM by johnm33 »

SimonF92

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Re: eggs not a cardivascular hazard, actually help.
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2021, 11:16:35 AM »
Thanks Simon,

I was refused a coronary angiogram 3 times in the UK.  When I finally had my heart attack they found my coronary artery had reduced to less than 2mm.  It showed up all right and it was not cholesterol, I have the photo's.  Invisible artery before, visible artery after.

More concerning was that my heart (no heart disease, just artery disease), had been working so hard to pump blood past the constriction, that I had an aneurism at the beginning of the constriction.  I have a stent in that particular problem now and I'm back to where I was in my mid 20's with energy and physical power.  Not bad for a near 60 year old.

I still have a minor constriction in the coronary artery and the consultant advised me I'd need to get more stents fitted in the next 6-7 years or I _will_ have another heart attack.  No doubt about it, statins, no statins, cholesterol, no cholesterol, heart attack guaranteed.

Still, I was under a machine in under 1 hour after being brought into the first hospital.  That included a 40 minute transfer between hospitals with a police escort.  So I can forgive the French for not fixing me totally.  The UK didn't even bother to look!

Hence my somewhat aggressive response to doctors who just push pills at you because the "study" says it makes you better.  Can you imagine what a tripled dose of Antigen II blockers did to me with a massively constricted coronal artery.  The consultant didn't care that it was driving me into Angina attacks, just keep taking more.

I prefer a better approach.

Sorry for missing this at the time Neil. I agree with your point about it 'not' being cholesterol. By the time an artery is that occluded, the occlusion is made up of calcified deposits of dead cells.

However, the culprit im afraid, was most likely cholesterol many decades ago.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/16753-atherosclerosis-arterial-disease

The lab across from me work to develop smart-stents with sensors on them which can detect when the issues your consultant warned you about might start to become a potential risk. Instead of this being a 'given', in time, your calculated risk could be something the doctor can see on an app, wirelessly transmitted from the stent.

Its fascinating stuff, I often go over there to look at what they are doing- maybe one of their devices could help you one day.

Anyway, best of luck with everything and sorry to hear you were so let down
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