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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1500 on: May 04, 2024, 11:19:49 PM »
More on the salt battery. Apparently it was already invented by Mária Telkes in the 1940s.

I've just searched for her name on this forum, but she's never been mentioned here, even though she was a trailblazer in solar energy. An unsung hero?

I'm just wondering why it took 76 years for her invention to pop up again. Just imagine if we had these things 20 or more years ago.  ???

Quote
Telkes identified thermal energy storage as the most "critical problem" facing designers of a workable solar-heated house. One of her specialties was phase-change materials that absorb or release heat when they change from solid to liquid. She hoped to use phase-change materials like molten salts for storing thermal energy in active heating systems. One of her materials of choice was Glauber's salt (sodium sulfate).


In this video, they claim it's ten times cheaper than current technologies using electricity.
Where has this been all my life?  :(

This is the company they created.
Cellcius (link to their Youtube channel with 1 video)

https://cellcius.com/en/




Weatherwatch: how ‘sun queen’ Mária Telkes pioneered solar power
Hungarian-American physicist patented many pieces of technology that harness the sun’s rays to create clean energy

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2024/feb/22/weatherwatch-how-sun-queen-maria-telkes-pioneered-solar-power

The Hungarian-American scientist did so by inventing an emergency balloon-like desalination device that used the sun’s heat to evaporate seawater and condense it into clean drinking water.

After the war, she developed more ideas on solar thermal heat and in 1948 pioneered the world’s first entirely solar-heated home: Dover Sun House in Massachusetts.

The house used imposing 10ft (3-metre) high windows to collect the sun’s rays and melt a salt (sodium sulphate), which stored the solar heat.

As the salt cooled and resolidified, the heat was released and used for heating air circulating throughout the two-bedroom home for approximately 10 days or more of cold weather.


Among other inventions, in 1953, she also developed an easy-to-use solar oven for cooking food in remote areas, capable of reaching 200C.

Telkes (1900-1995) became known as the “sun queen” and registered more than 20 patents, mostly based on solar power, over her working life.
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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1501 on: May 04, 2024, 11:20:28 PM »
What if we could cool down our solar panels in summer to make them more efficient, and use that heat to store in those Cellcius thermal salt batteries for winter? Sounds like a perfect system for heat and electricity if you ask me.

https://www.sunovate.com.au/

Quote
Sunovate was founded to create a platform for the rapid transition to renewable heat. Our approach is to fundamentally reform the way heat energy is sourced and delivered to customers. We have developed a system that retrofits to  any existing solar PV panel. The system can supply heat as well as electricity; reducing energy costs and energy related emissions.

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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1502 on: May 04, 2024, 11:21:11 PM »
Pretty good one hour Dutch documentary with English subtitles about many different kinds of energy storage projects in the Netherlands. All projects are summarized on the webpage in English and Netherlandic. Some have already declared bankruptcy though, like Ecovat.

https://www.bc1.nl/energie-opslag/#The-energy-transition-needs-storage-to-succeed

Minute 22.30 they talk about the Cellcius salt battery.
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1503 on: May 09, 2024, 07:46:39 PM »
—- 60MW / 160MWh of Tesla Megapacks at @GridStorLLC's site in Goleta, California are now Santa Barbara County's largest power resource, surpassing the local peaker plant
This battery storage system bolsters grid reliability for the region and supports California's transition to renewables…
5/8/24, https://x.com/tesla_megapack/status/1788332678842032540
pic.twitter.com/X2kPnFR6xm  Aerial pics
 
https://youtu.be/SA3SdlKBtyc&feature=youtu.be
1 min. “Cal Flats” solar, Tesla 240 MWh battery, one of the largest in the US

—- BREAKING: Tesla has secured a new $448 million Megapack contract to quadruple the size of the Stanwell battery in Queensland, Australia, making it the biggest in the state.
Total project cost for this Tesla battery will now be $747M. 300MW/1,200MWh.
 
Queensland quadruples size of Stanwell Tesla battery to make it biggest in the state
https://reneweconomy.com.au/queensland-quadruples-size-of-stanwell-tesla-battery-to-1200-mwh/

 
—- In just the last year, Tesla has secured ~$3 billion worth of new Megapack orders in Australia, a country that makes up only 0.3% of the global population.
And that $3B figure are just the orders that we know about. Tesla's global energy business is just getting started. pic.twitter.com/1Hj3kbiRYA
   —
Tesla Energy currently has margins of about 26%.
5/8/24, https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1788390027765936357
 

—- NEWS: Shanghai Lingang approves river-related construction plan for $TSLA Energy Storage Gigafactory project
 
• Tesla's Shanghai Energy Storage Gigafactory plans to start construction in May and mass production by Q1 2025
 
• This will be Tesla's first energy storage gigafactory outside the US. 
 
•  Located in Nanhui New Town, Pudong New Area,  covering  an area of ​​204,359.92 square  meters
 
Source:  m.ithome.com/html/766442.htm  pic.twitter.com/cLFHs18ewO 
5/8/24, https://x.com/herbertong/status/1788070300325949859
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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1504 on: May 13, 2024, 02:07:10 PM »
Is this real? 500W/kg?  :o

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interstitial

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1505 on: May 14, 2024, 01:28:01 AM »
I do not know but I suspect 500 w/kg is for the battery and not the pack. It would still be impressive as last I remember reading the record was in the mid 400's but that was a while ago. The 205 w/kg mentioned in the video is probably at the pack level. I would guess it is true but it is a prototype product. That means it is out of the lab but not yet in high volume production. The low impact of low temperatures is also impressive.

kiwichick16

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1506 on: May 14, 2024, 07:56:25 AM »
@  freegrass  .....he sounds quite excited

nadir

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1507 on: May 15, 2024, 02:54:02 PM »
An interesting fact about this new battery technologies from China is that Europe and US are preparing protective measures against them as we speak. So if they could enable affordable long-range EV, the supposedly environmentalist bureaucrats of Brussels and DC will make you pay more for it.

Biden just pushed extra tariffs of up to 25% for Chinese batteries and the loss of applying for carbon credits for the production of vehicles with Chinese batteries (poor Tesla btw). Wow an applause for our green President 👏👏👏 🫡

SteveMDFP

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1508 on: May 15, 2024, 05:00:07 PM »
An interesting fact about this new battery technologies from China is that Europe and US are preparing protective measures against them as we speak. So if they could enable affordable long-range EV, the supposedly environmentalist bureaucrats of Brussels and DC will make you pay more for it.

Biden just pushed extra tariffs of up to 25% for Chinese batteries and the loss of applying for carbon credits for the production of vehicles with Chinese batteries (poor Tesla btw). Wow an applause for our green President 👏👏👏 🫡

This isn't the work of environmentalist bureaucrats, it's the work of trade-protectionist bureaucrats.  CATL is runnning manufacturing facilities outside of China to avoid trade protections.  The US regs seem to require sourcing of minerals from US/allies, which may increase costs and constrain availability.  CATL as a brand is only barred from US military use, for security concerns, allegedly.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2024, 01:07:28 PM by SteveMDFP »

Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1509 on: May 15, 2024, 06:24:07 PM »
An interesting fact about this new battery technologies from China is that Europe and US are preparing protective measures against them as we speak. So if they could enable affordable long-range EV, the supposedly environmentalist bureaucrats of Brussels and DC will make you pay more for it.

Biden just pushed extra tariffs of up to 25% for Chinese batteries and the loss of applying for carbon credits for the production of vehicles with Chinese batteries (poor Tesla btw). Wow an applause for our green President 👏👏👏 🫡
They're only digging their own grave.

America dominated the digital revolution.
China will dominate the clean energy/tech revolution.
What's Europe good in? 🤔
It ain't gonna be cars anymore.
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nadir

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1510 on: May 16, 2024, 11:58:33 AM »
The problem is China is ahead several years to the rest of the world in battery technology. Protectionist politics against this particular technology is shooting to your own feet.

I assume Biden is just doing this for Nov. elections. But after that, probably Trump will continue, being the anti-China and anti-EV subnormal that he is.

And all the liberal brains will then explode, but not now… anyway.

El Cid

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1511 on: May 16, 2024, 12:20:10 PM »
The problem is China is ahead several years to the rest of the world in battery technology. Protectionist politics against this particular technology is shooting to your own feet.

I assume Biden is just doing this for Nov. elections. But after that, probably Trump will continue, being the anti-China and anti-EV subnormal that he is.

And all the liberal brains will then explode, but not now… anyway.

Wrong. China is NOT ahead in battery technology. The only advantage they have is that the Chinese state put huge amounts of money in the form of equity, loans, subsidies into these companies, basically cutting their cost of capital BY A LOT. That's why they can outsell Western companies. And that's why you need to put taxes/levies/etc on their products because this is a classic case of unfair competition. Balancing the scales

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1512 on: May 16, 2024, 12:26:24 PM »
CATL just announced a battery that could provide 2000 km of range to a typical EV, and charge at rates like 1.0 km/second. If that is not being advanced… maybe it explodes and burns like all other ones, maybe it’s as contaminant, but BYD and CATL are way ahead.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1513 on: May 24, 2024, 11:38:21 PM »
Felix Hamer • electricfelix:
Quote
.@stevelevine:
"On Monday, @theinformation (#TheElectric) reported that the going rate for iron-based batteries in China had plunged to an astonishing $56 per kilowatt hour, 40% below last year’s average outside the country. But we have since learned that the average price is even lower—$47/kWh, half as much as such batteries outside China, according to a survey last month by @BloombergNEF, a renewable energy research firm.

Chinese battery makers charge higher prices for exported batteries, according to Sam Adham, head of battery materials at @CRUGROUP, a battery metals research firm. But Chinese LFP exporters still pose a  significant challenge to non-Chinese battery makers hoping to break in to the LFP market, making it extremely difficult for them to compete. Chinese companies such as @BYDCompany and @catl_official currently manufacture virtually all the world’s LFP. But non-Chinese companies such as California startup @Mitra_Chem and South Korea’s #SKon plan to start producing the batteries in 2025 and 2026, respectively."
5/23/24, https://x.com/electricfelix/status/1793636230250274902
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morganism

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1514 on: May 28, 2024, 02:29:12 AM »

Delft-based Ore Energy exits stealth mode with €10M; unveils battery based on only iron, water and air

Delft-based Ore Energy, a science startup spun out of TU Delft, announced on Thursday that it has emerged from stealth with €10M funding from Positron Ventures and SPRIND.

The Dutch company will use the funds to plan the large-scale production of its battery, which is based on only iron, water, and air.

What does Ore Energy solve?

Iron-air batteries, although invented decades ago, have historically faced significant challenges in cost, rechargeability, and efficiency, hindering their practical application until now.

As the world seeks to transition away from fossil-based energy, extensive wind and solar energy infrastructure is being developed. However, these renewable energy sources are intermittent, often failing to generate energy when it is most needed.

In Europe, up to 60 per cent of renewable energy capacity goes unused on sunny and windy days. This results in the reliance on fossil-based energy resources such as coal or gas to meet electricity demands when renewable sources are unavailable.

Consequently, 140 TWh of low-cost, long-duration energy storage is projected to be needed by 2040 to ensure a continuous match between supply and demand.


Ore Energy: Developing a new generation multi-day energy storage system

Led by Dr. Ir. Aytac Yilmaz, Ore Energy‘s batteries have the potential to reduce the cost of long-duration energy storage by 10 times compared to currently used lithium batteries.

The battery technology has been developed using the process of rusting and unrusting of metallic iron to store energy. This technology relies solely on abundant materials such as iron, water, and air.

The fundamental principle of the technology is based on a well-known chemical reaction: rusting and unrusting.

During the discharge phase, the metallic iron undergoes oxidation (rusting), leading to the emission of electrons and the generation of an electrical current.

On the contrary, during the charging phase, an electrical current is applied to reverse the rust back into metallic iron.

What sets the company’s technology apart is its fully scalable modular design.

Comprising easily interlocking building blocks, this battery system offers a plug-and-play energy storage solution that can be effortlessly deployed at any location and scale, from MWh to GWh.

According to the company, it has numerous advantages, including

    Extremely cost-effective
    100 hours of storage duration
    Utilises abundant materials
    Safe without risk of fire
    Easily scalable

Dr. Ir. Aytac Yilmaz, CEO and co-founder of Ore Energy, says, “With our iron-air battery, we harness the everyday process of rusting to provide energy. In our technology, we make rusting and unrusting processes fully reversible to enable ultra-low-cost long-duration energy storage, utilising abundant raw materials.”

“I think that these scientific advances can provide the missing piece of an

energy system to be completely based on renewables. Our innovation also fosters resilience in the supply chain, reducing reliance on imported critical raw materials and strengthening Europe’s energy and raw material independence,” adds Yilmaz.
(more)

https://siliconcanals.com/news/startups/ore-energy-exits-stealth-mode-with-10m/
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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1515 on: May 28, 2024, 04:47:02 PM »
Nice. Hope this works.
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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1516 on: May 28, 2024, 06:58:20 PM »

Delft-based Ore Energy exits stealth mode with €10M; unveils battery based on only iron, water and air

https://siliconcanals.com/news/startups/ore-energy-exits-stealth-mode-with-10m/
Iron air looks great, but it's the same technology that Form Energy is building a factory for.
Curious to see if they can catch up. I guess the patents have long expired?

https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/22/ore-energy-emerges-from-stealth-to-build-utility-scale-batteries-that-last-days-not-hours/
Quote
Ore Energy isn’t the only startup working on iron-air batteries. In the U.S., Form Energy is arguably the leader and has been refining its approach for years, having raised $928 million at a $2.06 billion post-money valuation, according to PitchBook. The company is nearing completion of its first large-scale factory in West Virginia, where it hopes to start production later this year.

Form Energy has a significant head start, but Yilmaz thinks there’s room for more than one player in the game. “Form Energy is really doing a great job in the U.S.,” he said. “We have the same goal to transform the electricity grid in Europe.”

https://formenergy.com/newsroom/#news




In their news section they also have this interesting PR.

Now Form Energy is using its battery tech to clean up iron and steel

https://www.canarymedia.com/articles/green-steel/now-form-energy-is-using-its-battery-tech-to-clean-up-iron-and-steel

Quote
With that insight, the Form team engineered a system that places powdered iron ore in a low-temperature alkaline solution; adding an electrical current produces powdered metallic iron. This process can be run continuously and at high efficiency, Jaramillo said, and has a strong shot of competing on cost with conventional furnace operations. But furnaces entail a minimum investment in the billions of dollars; Form’s electrolytic technique could be easier to deploy because it can be scaled up in smaller increments.
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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1517 on: May 28, 2024, 07:07:45 PM »
It´s a big problem so there is room enough for many players. Anyone who can come up with even cheaper/more sustainable batteries is welcome too.

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jai mitchell

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1518 on: June 24, 2024, 04:57:54 PM »
Massive fire at South Korea Li-Ion battery manufacturing facility.  22 confirmed dead.





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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1519 on: June 24, 2024, 05:17:10 PM »
The cement that could turn your house into a giant battery

Concrete is perhaps the most commonly used building material in the world. With a bit of tweaking, it could help to power our homes too.

On a laboratory bench in Cambridge, Massachusetts, a stack of polished cylinders of black-coloured concrete sit bathed in liquid and entwined in cables. To a casual observer, they aren't doing much. But then Damian Stefaniuk flicks a switch. The blocks of human-made rock are wired up to an LED – and the bulb flickers into life.
"At first I didn't believe it," says Stefaniuk, describing the first time the LED lit up. "I thought that I hadn't disconnected the external power source, and that was why the LED was on.
"It was a wonderful day. We invited students, and I invited professors to see, because at first they didn't believe that it worked either."
The reason for the excitement? This innocuous, dark lump of concrete could represent the future of energy storage.

...

Despite some new discoveries of lithium reserves, the finite supply of this material, the over-reliance on just a handful of mines around the world and its environmental impact have driven the search for alternative battery materials.
This is where Stefaniuk and his concrete come in. He and his colleagues at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) have found a way of creating an energy storage device known as a supercapacitor from three basic, cheap materials – water, cement and a soot-like substance called carbon black.

Supercapacitors are highly efficient at storing energy but differ from batteries in some important ways. They can charge much more quickly than a lithium ion battery and don't suffer from the same levels of degradation in performance. But supercapacitors also release the power they store rapidly, making them less useful in devices such as mobile phones, laptops or electric cars where a steady supply of energy is needed over an extended period of time.
Yet according to Stefaniuk, carbon-cement supercapacitors could make an important contribution to efforts to decarbonise the global economy. "If it can be scaled up, the technology can help solve an important issue – the storing of renewable energy," he says.
He and his fellow researchers at MIT and Harvard University's Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering, envisage several applications for their supercapacitors.
One might be to create roads that store solar energy and then release it to recharge electric cars wirelessly as they drive along a road. The rapid release of energy from the carbon-cement supercapacitor would allow vehicles to get a rapid boost to their batteries. Another would be as energy-storing foundations of houses – "to have walls, or foundations, or columns, that are active not only in supporting a structure, but also in that energy is stored inside them", says Stefaniuk.

But it is still early days. For now, the concrete supercapacitor can store a little under 300 watt-hours per cubic metre – enough to power a 10-watt LED lightbulb for 30 hours.
The power output "may seem low compared to conventional batteries, [but] a foundation with 30-40 cubic metres (1,060-1,410 cubic feet) of concrete could be sufficient to meet the daily energy needs of a residential house", says Stefaniuk. "Given the widespread use of concrete globally, this material has the potential to be highly competitive and useful in energy storage."

more:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20240610-how-the-concrete-in-your-house-could-be-turned-into-a-battery
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morganism

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1520 on: June 27, 2024, 01:28:22 AM »
Whoever controls electrolytes will pave the way for electric vehicles

(...)
 Lithium-ion batteries are widely used in portable electronics and energy storage, including electric vehicles. However, the liquid electrolytes in these batteries pose a fire and explosion risk, prompting research to find safer alternatives. One option is the semi-solid-state battery, which uses a gel-like electrolyte, offering enhanced stability, energy density, and a longer lifespan.

Creating gel electrolytes usually involves prolonged heat treatment at high temperatures, which can degrade the electrolyte, reducing battery performance and increasing production costs. Additionally, the interface resistance between the semi-solid electrolyte and the electrode is a challenge in the fabrication process. Previous studies have struggled to apply their findings to commercial battery production due to complex methods and issues with large-scale applications.

Professor Soojin Park's team addressed these challenges using a bifunctional cross-linkable additive (CIA), dipentaerythritol hexaacrylate (DPH), combined with electron beam (e-beam) technology. The conventional pouch-type battery manufacturing process includes electrode preparation, electrolyte injection, assembly, activation, and degassing steps. The researchers enhanced DPH's dual functionality by adding an e-beam irradiation step after the degassing process. The CIA acted as an additive to facilitate a stable interface between the anode and cathode surfaces during activation and as a crosslinker to form a polymer structure during e-beam irradiation.

The team's pouch-type battery, using a gel electrolyte, significantly reduced gas generation from battery side reactions during initial charging and discharging, achieving a 2.5-fold decrease compared to conventional batteries. It also minimized interfacial resistance due to strong compatibility between electrodes and the gel electrolyte.

The researchers developed a high-capacity battery of 1.2 Ah (ampere-hour) and tested its performance at 55 degrees Celsius, an environment that accelerates electrolyte decomposition. Batteries using conventional electrolytes experienced substantial gas generation, leading to rapid capacity reduction and swelling after 50 cycles. In contrast, the team's battery showed no gas generation and maintained a 1 Ah capacity even after 200 cycles, demonstrating its enhanced safety and durability.

This research is significant because it enables the rapid mass production of safe and commercially viable gel electrolyte-based batteries within existing pouch battery production lines.
(more)

https://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Whoever_controls_electrolytes_will_pave_the_way_for_electric_vehicles_999.html

.....

Mitigating Gas Evolution in Electron Beam-Induced Gel Polymer Electrolytes Through Bi-Functional Cross–Linkable Additives

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/smll.202401426

The current high-capacity lithium-ion batteries (LIBs), reliant on flammable liquid electrolytes (LEs) and nickel-rich cathodes, are plagued by safety hazards, especially the risk of hazardous gas release stemming from internal side reactions. To address these safety concerns, an electron beam (E-beam)-induced gel polymer electrolyte (E-Gel) is introduced, employing dipentaerythritol hexaacrylate (DPH) as a bi-functional cross–linkable additive (CIA). The dual roles of DPH are exploited through a strategically designed E-beam irradiation process. Applying E-beam irradiation on the pre-cycled cells allows DPH to function as an additive during the initial cycle, establishing a protective layer on the surface of the anode and cathode and as a cross–linker during the E-beam irradiation step, forming a polymer framework. The prepared E-Gel with CIA has superior interfacial compatibility, facilitating lithium-ion diffusion at the electrode/E-Gel interface. The electrochemical assessment of 1.2 Ah pouch cells demonstrates that E-Gel substantially reduces gas release by 2.5 times compared to commercial LEs during the initial formation stage and ensures superior reversible capacity retention even after prolonged cycling at 55 °C. The research underscores the synergy of bifunctional CIA with E-beam technology, paving the way for large-scale production of safe, high-capacity, and commercially viable LIBs.
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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1521 on: July 06, 2024, 08:48:14 PM »
A breakthrough in inexpensive, clean, fast-charging batteries

First anode-free sodium solid-state battery


UChicago Pritzker Molecular Engineering Prof. Y. Shirley Meng's Laboratory for Energy Storage and Conversion has created the world's first anode-free sodium solid-state battery.

With this research, the LESC -- a collaboration between the UChicago Pritzker School of Molecular Engineering and the University of California San Diego's Aiiso Yufeng Li Family Department of Chemical and Nano Engineering -- has brought the reality of inexpensive, fast-charging, high-capacity batteries for electric vehicles and grid storage closer than ever.

"Although there have been previous sodium, solid-state, and anode-free batteries, no one has been able to successfully combine these three ideas until now," said UC San Diego PhD candidate Grayson Deysher, first author of a new paper outlining the team's work.

The paper, published today in Nature Energy, demonstrates a new sodium battery architecture with stable cycling for several hundred cycles. By removing the anode and using inexpensive, abundant sodium instead of lithium, this new form of battery will be more affordable and environmentally friendly to produce. Through its innovative solid-state design, the battery also will be safe and powerful.

...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240703131808.htm
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morganism

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1522 on: August 03, 2024, 07:16:53 AM »
(at the end of this story, they reference the vanadium batt design we posted up 2 yrs ago)

Why did the U.S. miss the battery revolution?
We were early to the party on every other technological revolution, but we missed this one.

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-did-the-us-miss-the-battery-revolution

.....

The U.S. made a breakthrough battery discovery — then gave the technology to China

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1114964240/new-battery-technology-china-vanadium
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1523 on: August 03, 2024, 11:54:10 PM »
Why did the U.S. miss the battery revolution?

A lot of it has to be culture.  And the economy.  R&D is one thing, but inventions will stay in the lab unless someone can see a commercial need for it.  Not long ago, vehicles in the US were gas or diesel, period — EVs were considered toys or golf carts.

When Tesla started planning for the Model S, they quickly realized they would require “the world’s entire production of batteries.”  So they built Giga Nevada to make their own — and everyone laughed:  The world doesn’t need that many batteries.  You’ll go bankrupt!

For the past few years, battery factories were the hot new investment.

But today, global battery production projects are interrupted, paused, delayed, cancelled or worse….

8/3/24, https://x.com/alex_avoigt/status/1819839236268306682
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1524 on: August 21, 2024, 03:06:35 AM »
BREAKING: Tesla China says that construction on its new Shanghai Megapack factory is now 45% complete just 3 months after construction started, a new record!
 
Tesla shared a progress photo, as well as the first rendering of what the factory will look like when complete.
 
• $200 million factory
• Initial capacity of 10,000 units per year (40 GWh)
• $10B of revenue per year from this one factory
• New factory covers an area of ~200,000 square meters
• Aims to export Megapacks to overseas markets, including the Asia-Pacific region, to support the global "green future"
 
Source: weibo.com/u/2001356571 
 
8/20/24, https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1825787573207216368
Image and render of the factory at the link.
 
   —-
To put into perceptive how fast China's construction speed is, Tesla's Lathrop, California Megapack factory took 14 months from groundbreaking to start of pilot production.
 
Tesla's Shanghai Megapack factory is already 45% complete after just 3 months. There's a small possibility we could see pilot production start at this factory by the end of December.
8/20/24, https://x.com/sawyermerritt/status/1825943165356093836
 
   —-
Tesla:  “We are between two waves….”
 
$10B revenue/year from a $200 million factory.  Why isn’t everyone building these?
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zenith

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1525 on: August 21, 2024, 03:14:27 AM »
Tesla:  “We are between two waves….”

that's called a trough, and nobody should ever care what tesla or elon musk have to say about anything ever. bullshit artists flock together...
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1526 on: September 01, 2024, 09:13:02 PM »
Colin Mckerracher
Quote
Lithium-ion battery demand patterns and applications are changing quickly.
 
A short thread.
  —
EVs are the largest source of demand for batteries, but stationary energy storage is catching up quickly. 
BNEF expects stationary storage battery demand to rise 61% this year in capacity terms.
  —
Globally, energy storage will account for around 13% of total li-ion battery demand this year, up from 6% in 2020
Putting this another way, the ratio of EV battery demand to stationary battery demand has fallen from 15-to-1 to 6-to-1 in the last 4 years.
  —
Expected EV battery demand in BNEF’s latest EV Outlook was lowered due to a lower adoption outlook in markets like Germany and the US.
But the overall lithium-ion battery demand forecast remained almost constant due to increased expectations on the stationary side.
  —
Prices for turn-key energy storage systems are down 43% from a year ago and that is leading to big increase in deployments
  —
The ways these batteries are being used is also changing. This year, two thirds of all storage installations are being used for energy shifting applications like price arbitrage and helping to integrate renewables.

   —-
Even with lots of stationary storage demand, there is going to be significant overcapacity in the battery market for quite some time. Nameplate annual battery manufacturing capacity online in China at the end of 2023 was 2.2 TWh. BNEF estimate for demand this year: 1.2TWh.
   —
The outlook for battery demand will continue to be tied closely to EVs, but the stationary storage market is worth watching.
As one part of the energy transition slows temporarily, another is speeding up.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1823677937591451673.html
 
Or:  https://x.com/colinmckerrache/status/1823677937591451673
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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1527 on: September 01, 2024, 09:57:08 PM »
Could a Bronze Age technology help us store renewable energy?

Firebricks could act as better batteries for renewable energy.

Firebricks — heat-resistant bricks designed to withstand and store high temperatures without getting damaged — were developed during the early Bronze Age. They were used to line primitive kilns dug into the ground. Now, researchers believe they could play a role in our energy transition.

These bricks are composed of specific materials such as alumina, silica, and magnesia, which give them high densities, and melting points. This makes them ideal for storing heat generated from excess renewable electricity.

The cost advantage of firebricks is significant, though it’s not obvious at first glance. They’re really expensive compared to regular bricks. However, these bricks really are excellent at storing heat — and they are certainly cheaper than batteries.

“The difference between firebrick storage and battery storage is that the firebricks store heat rather than electricity and are one-tenth the cost of batteries,” said lead study author Mark Z. Jacobson, a professor of civil and environmental engineering in the Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability and School of Engineering. “The materials are much simpler too. They are basically just the components of dirt.”

Many industrial processes use high heat. Jacobson and colleagues calculated what would happen if this type of brick were used for heat storage in industrial processes, in a scenario where there is 100% renewable energy usage.

The cost per kilowatt-hour-thermal (kWh-th) for a firebrick storage system is less than one-tenth the cost of a battery storage system per kilowatt-hour-electricity (kWh-e). This cost efficiency makes firebricks a promising tool in the effort to transition to 100% renewable energy.

more

...

https://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/could-a-bronze-age-technology-help-us-store-renewable-energy/
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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1528 on: September 01, 2024, 11:32:42 PM »
I seriously doubt any industrial process using high temperatures would attempt to store ‘heat’ in a capacitive battery.
 
Of course storing heat as heat would be more efficient.
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interstitial

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1529 on: September 02, 2024, 12:43:51 AM »
Heat storage is pretty easy and can be done cheaply with many different materials. Storing electricity this way would lose 70% + of the energy.

oren

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1530 on: September 02, 2024, 12:19:23 PM »
I think the firebrick proposal outlined above attempts to solve a different problem - one needs heat 24/7 for some industrial process, but renewable electricity is intermittent. Rather than attempting to store the electricity in batteries in order to achieve heat during the night/low periods, one could convert the electricity to heat at the time it is available, and store the heat in firebricks for later use.
Not saying it is feasible or economical, I kinda doubt it actually.

NeilT

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1531 on: September 02, 2024, 12:55:45 PM »
If we are looking at thermal storage I felt that polyisomer and norbornadiene was a good research direction.

An attempt to replicate photosynthesis and the use of the carbon it stores for energy.

I read recently that they believed they had made a breakthrough in Sweden.  All quiet after that though, as you would expect with lab experiments which could take decades to develop.

There appears to be some interesting hybrid work going on too.  Although it does show that energy absorption of polyisomers is quite low today.

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Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1532 on: September 02, 2024, 05:00:16 PM »
It would be more helpful to describe the new bricks by saying, “they could make an industrial furnace X% more energy efficient.”
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morganism

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1533 on: September 06, 2024, 01:49:25 AM »
interesting study on first charge on lithium battery life)

Researchers discover a surprising way to jump-start battery performance

Giving lithium-ion batteries their first charge at high currents before they leave the factory is 30 times faster and increases their lifespans by 50%.



A lithium-ion battery's very first charge is more momentous than it sounds. It determines how well and how long the battery will work from then on - in particular, how many cycles of charging and discharging it can handle before deteriorating.

In a study published in Joule, researchers at the SLAC-Stanford Battery Center report that giving batteries this first charge at unusually high currents increased their average lifespan by 50% while decreasing the initial charging time from 10 hours to just 20 minutes.

Just as important, the researchers were able to use scientific machine learning to pinpoint specific changes in the battery electrodes that account for this increase in lifespan and performance - invaluable insights for battery manufacturers looking to streamline their processes and improve their products.
(snip)

"This study is very exciting for us," he said. "Battery manufacturing is extremely capital, energy and time intensive. It takes a long time to spin up manufacturing of a new battery, and it's really difficult to optimize the manufacturing process because there are so many factors involved."

Torrisi said the results of this research "demonstrate a generalizable approach for understanding and optimizing this crucial step in battery manufacturing. Further, we may be able to transfer what we have learned to new processes, facilities, equipment and battery chemistries in the future."

A "squishy layer" that's key to battery performance
To understand what happens during the battery's initial cycling, Chueh's team builds pouch cells in which the positive and negative electrodes are surrounded by an electrolyte solution where lithium ions move freely.

When a battery charges, lithium ions flow into the negative electrode for storage. When a battery discharges, they flow back out and travel to the positive electrode; this triggers a flow of electrons for powering devices, from electric cars to the electricity grid.

The positive electrode of a newly minted battery is 100% full of lithium, said Xiao Cui, the lead researcher for the battery informatics team in Chueh's lab. Every time the battery goes through a charge-discharge cycle, some of the lithium is deactivated. Minimizing those losses prolongs the battery's working lifetime.

Oddly enough, one way to minimize the overall lithium loss is to deliberately lose a large percentage of the initial supply of lithium during the battery's first charge, Cui said. It's like making a small investment that yields good returns down the road.

This first-cycle lithium loss is not in vain. The lost lithium becomes part of a squishy layer called the solid electrolyte interphase, or SEI, that forms on the surface of the negative electrode during the first charge. In return, the SEI protects the negative electrode from side reactions that would accelerate the lithium loss and degrade the battery faster over time. Getting the SEI just right is so important that the first charge is known as the formation charge.

"Formation is the final step in the manufacturing process," Cui said, "so if it fails, all the value and effort invested in the battery up to that point are wasted."

High charging current boosts battery performance
Manufacturers generally give new batteries their first charge with low currents, on the theory that this will create the most robust SEI layer. But there's a downside: Charging at low currents is time-consuming and costly and doesn't necessarily yield optimal results. So, when recent studies suggested that faster charging with higher currents does not degrade battery performance, it was exciting news.

But researchers wanted to dig deeper. The charging current is just one of dozens of factors that go into the formation of SEI during the first charge. Testing all possible combinations of them in the lab to see which one worked best is an overwhelming task.

To whittle the problem down to manageable size, the research team used scientific machine learning to identify which factors are most important in achieving good results. To their surprise, just two of them - the temperature and current at which the battery is charged - stood out from all the rest.

Experiments confirmed that charging at high currents has a huge impact, increasing the lifespan of the average test battery by 50%. It also deactivated a much higher percentage of lithium up front - about 30%, compared to 9% with previous methods - but that turned out to have a positive effect.

Removing more lithium ions up front is a bit like scooping water out of a full bucket before carrying it, Cui said. The extra headspace in the bucket decreases the amount of water splashing out along the way. In similar fashion, deactivating more lithium ions during SEI formation frees up headspace in the positive electrode and allows the electrode to cycle in a more efficient way, improving subsequent performance.

"Brute force optimization by trial-and-error is routine in manufacturing - how should we perform the first charge, and what is the winning combination of factors?" Chueh said. "Here, we didn't just want to identify the best recipe for making a good battery; we wanted to understand how and why it works. This understanding is crucial for finding the best balance between battery performance and manufacturing efficiency.

https://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Researchers_discover_a_surprising_way_to_jump_start_battery_performance_999.html

....

https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S2542435124003532
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kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1534 on: September 06, 2024, 05:46:02 PM »
That´s an interesting and useful discovery.

It would be more helpful to describe the new bricks by saying, “they could make an industrial furnace X% more energy efficient.”

There are many different batteries performing different tasks. We also have sand batteries for long term storage for housing in Scandinavia. We need batteries that can store summer excess for winter preferably at a very low environmental cost. In a way heating water in summer to heat buildings in winter is also a battery and a solution that might work in some scenarios.
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Yuha

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1535 on: September 07, 2024, 11:06:42 AM »
There are many different batteries performing different tasks. We also have sand batteries for long term storage for housing in Scandinavia. We need batteries that can store summer excess for winter preferably at a very low environmental cost. In a way heating water in summer to heat buildings in winter is also a battery and a solution that might work in some scenarios.

Such a water heat storage is being built in Finland right now.

World’s largest thermal energy storage to be built in Vantaa, Finland
https://www.vantaanenergia.fi/en/worlds-largest-thermal-energy-storage-to-be-built-in-vantaa-finland/

Quote
The seasonal thermal energy storage facility will be built in Vantaa’s bedrock, where a total of three caverns about 20 meters wide, 300 meters long and 40 meters high will be excavated. The bottom of the caverns will be 100 meters below ground level. These underground caverns will be filled with hot water. Pressure will be created within the space, allowing the water to reach temperatures of up to 140 degrees without the water boiling or evaporating.

The seasonal thermal energy storage caverns are huge; their total volume is 1,100,000 cubic meters, including process facilities.

...

The total thermal capacity of the fully charged seasonal thermal energy storage is 90 gigawatt-hours. This capacity could heat a medium-sized Finnish city for as long as a year. Broken down into smaller energy units, this amount of energy is equivalent to, for example, 1.3 million electric car batteries.

“Two 60-MW electric boilers will be built in conjunction with Varanto. These boilers will be used to produce heat from renewable electricity when electricity is abundant and cheap. Through the intelligent control of Varanto, electricity generation, waste heat and district heating, Vantaa will receive a hybrid system enabling us to take full advantage of the different energy sources. Our heat-producing system will work like a hybrid car: alternating between electricity and other forms of production, depending on what is most advantageous and efficient at the time,” notes CEO Toivonen.

The project cost is estimated to be around 200 million euros, and it has already been awarded a 19-million-euro investment grant from Finland’s Ministry of Economic Affairs and Employment. Construction of the storage facility’s entrance is expected to start in summer 2024. The seasonal thermal energy storage facility could be operational in 2028.

kassy

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1536 on: September 07, 2024, 07:38:22 PM »
Cool. That is pretty big scale too. Here the plan was to put the water storage below the parking lot of a high rise building for that specific building so much smaller.
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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1537 on: October 22, 2024, 12:07:29 AM »

New Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate Batteries Scaling to Over 300 Gigawatt Hours Per Year in 2025
October 16, 2024 by Brian Wang

Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate (LMFP) batteries are ramping up to serious scale and could offer a 20% boost in energy density over LFP (Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries.

LMFP operates at a higher voltage than LFP, its theoretical energy density can reach up to 230 Wh/kg, which is 15% to 20% greater than that of LFP batteries.

CATL, BYD, and Gotion High-Tech are expanding production capacities and forming strategic partnerships according to battery expert Magnus Bekker.

LMFP production

CATL: Building a 120 GWh LMFP-capable plant in Sichuan, China, set to begin production in 2024.

BYD: Expanding into Europe with a new 20 GWh factory in Hungary, scheduled to come online in 2024.

Gotion High-Tech: Constructing a 20 GWh LMFP facility in Michigan, USA, with production planned to start in 2025.

SVOLT: Investing in a 40 GWh LMFP production line in Changzhou, China, expected to be operational by 2024.

Dynanonic: Recently launched a 110,000 tons per year LMFP cathode material production project in Qujing, China, with plans to expand to 440,000 tons per year by the end of 2025.

Tesla is using CATL LMFP batteries for Model 3 production in China and this results in a 10% range increase.

Market Growth Projections

LMFP batteries could account for up to 25% of the EV battery market by 2033, according to IDTechEx.

Chinese research companies are expecting about a 50/50 ratio between LFP and LMFP by 2030.

Benefits and Potential of LMFP batteries Versus LFP

Higher energy density: LMFP batteries provide 15-20% higher energy density than LFP batteries, allowing for increased storage capacity in the same volume

Improved voltage: LMFP batteries have a higher operating voltage (3.5-4.1V) compared to LFP batteries (3.2-3.5V), contributing to their increased energy density

Enhanced low-temperature performance: LMFP batteries maintain about 75% capacity at -20°C, while LFP batteries retain only 60-70%

Comparable safety: LMFP batteries offer similar thermal stability and safety features to LFP batteries, which are known for their excellent safety profile

Cost-effectiveness: Despite slightly higher initial production costs, LMFP batteries may offer lower costs per watt-hour due to their increased energy density

Longer range for EVs: The higher energy density of LMFP batteries can potentially extend EV driving ranges to over 700 kilometers (420 miles), compared to around 620 kilometers (370 miles) for LFP batteries.

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2024/10/new-lithium-manganese-iron-phosphate-batteries-scaling-to-over-300-gigawatt-hours-per-year-in-2025.html#more-198641
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Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1538 on: October 22, 2024, 12:09:31 AM »
Trouble in batteryland?

This video discusses the significant impact of CATL, a leading lithium battery company in China, halting its production. The video explores the reasons behind this decision, the broader implications for the lithium battery industry, and the economic challenges faced by the sector.

When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs or traditions, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1539 on: October 22, 2024, 02:07:46 AM »
Trouble in batteryland?

This video discusses the significant impact of CATL, a leading lithium battery company in China, halting its production. The video explores the reasons behind this decision, the broader implications for the lithium battery industry, and the economic challenges faced by the sector.

It’s not as bad as “halting production” makes it sound.

CATL adjusted its lithium carbonate operations in one location, Yichun. This was not a complete halt of all battery production but rather an adjustment in response to the drop in lithium prices and overproduction concerns.

CATL is the world's largest producer of EV batteries, and so its production capacity impacts global EV markets. An actual halt in battery production across all facilities, or a significant portion of them, would have been more disruptive, but this was not the case.

This adjustment in production, while significant for the lithium market, does not mean CATL is stopping all battery manufacturing operations.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Freegrass

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1540 on: October 22, 2024, 07:44:46 AM »
Trouble in batteryland?

This video discusses the significant impact of CATL, a leading lithium battery company in China, halting its production. The video explores the reasons behind this decision, the broader implications for the lithium battery industry, and the economic challenges faced by the sector.

It’s not as bad as “halting production” makes it sound.

CATL adjusted its lithium carbonate operations in one location, Yichun. This was not a complete halt of all battery production but rather an adjustment in response to the drop in lithium prices and overproduction concerns.

CATL is the world's largest producer of EV batteries, and so its production capacity impacts global EV markets. An actual halt in battery production across all facilities, or a significant portion of them, would have been more disruptive, but this was not the case.

This adjustment in production, while significant for the lithium market, does not mean CATL is stopping all battery manufacturing operations.
No, but as they say in the video, others might not make it. It wouldn't be good for the market if only CATL would survive.
When factual science is in conflict with our beliefs or traditions, we cuddle up in our own delusional fantasy where everything starts making sense again.

Sigmetnow

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Re: Batteries: Today's Energy Solution
« Reply #1541 on: October 22, 2024, 01:28:28 PM »
Trouble in batteryland?

This video discusses the significant impact of CATL, a leading lithium battery company in China, halting its production. The video explores the reasons behind this decision, the broader implications for the lithium battery industry, and the economic challenges faced by the sector.

It’s not as bad as “halting production” makes it sound.

CATL adjusted its lithium carbonate operations in one location, Yichun. This was not a complete halt of all battery production but rather an adjustment in response to the drop in lithium prices and overproduction concerns.

CATL is the world's largest producer of EV batteries, and so its production capacity impacts global EV markets. An actual halt in battery production across all facilities, or a significant portion of them, would have been more disruptive, but this was not the case.

This adjustment in production, while significant for the lithium market, does not mean CATL is stopping all battery manufacturing operations.
No, but as they say in the video, others might not make it. It wouldn't be good for the market if only CATL would survive.

When lithium prices rise, or demand overtakes supply, CATL and other producers will jump in.  It’s a matter of needing to make a profit.
People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.