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SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #800 on: July 10, 2017, 02:43:44 PM »

The latest update from Media Bias Fact Check says:
"Update 4/18/17: ...we move the Palmer Report to our Questionable Source list due to lack of sourced evidence, numerous false and unproven reports from fact checkers and extreme bias in reporting."

Yep.  It would seem that Palmer may have some inside contacts of use, but some items haven't been born out in reality.  So, interesting, but a poor source for founding any arguments or analysis on.

As long as we're reviewing sources that get cited on Trump-related threads, we should not overlook Zero Hedge:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/
"CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE"

Sadly, Jimmy Dore isn't reviewed.

Neven

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #801 on: July 10, 2017, 02:51:45 PM »
Jimmy Dore is a commentator, not a presenter of facts or scoops. He's very clear about his opinions, vision and agenda.
Make money, not peace

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #802 on: July 10, 2017, 05:21:42 PM »
Yep.  It would seem that Palmer may have some inside contacts of use, but some items haven't been born out in reality.

While I concur that we (collectively) should check as many alter sources as is reasonable, just because some of Palmer's reports have not yet been confirmed does not mean that they will not be confirmed once the trials/hearings get started & Mueller presents his cards.

That said, without investigative reporting Team Trump could get away with murder (as Trump said so himself), so I think it is worth consider Palmer's material even if it clearly has a liberal bias.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 05:52:45 PM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #803 on: July 10, 2017, 05:53:53 PM »
The linked Alternet article indicates that the same day Don Jr. meet with the Russian lawyer, Don Sr. tweeted for the first time about new evidence about Hillary's e-mails.

"Keith Olbermann Digs up Old Trump Tweet That May Confirm He Knew Don Jr. Met with Russian Lawyer"

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/keith-olbermann-digs-old-trump-tweet-may-confirm-he-knew-don-jr-met-russian-lawyer

For those who feel that they are entitled to only consider confirmed facts, I note that impeachment of a sitting president is a political matter, and sufficient concern by GOP Congressmen that Trump will drag them down in the mid-term elections may be enough for them to throw Donald under the bus, regardless of what Mueller eventually does, or does not, present.

Edit see also:

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/07/keith-olbermann-digs-up-old-trump-tweet-that-may-confirm-he-knew-don-jr-met-with-russian-lawyer/

Extract: "According to the New York Times report, Russian attorney Natalia Veselnitskaya had a previously undisclosed meeting at Trump Tower with campaign officials on June 9, 2016. The meeting was not disclosed despite federal requirements that they do so.

The first tweet Trump sent after the meeting between Manafort, Don Jr. and Veselnitskaya happened to also be the first time Trump mentioned former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s “missing 33,000 emails.”"
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #804 on: July 10, 2017, 06:48:35 PM »
Trump doesn't hesitate to play politics with mistaken facts (such as implying that Comey leaked classified information, when he did not):

Title: "Trump extends his feud with former FBI Director Comey"

http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-trump-extends-his-feud-with-former-fbi-1499700430-htmlstory.html

Extract: "President Trump took another shot at former FBI Director James B. Comey in a Monday morning Twitter message that misstated a key element of a story published in a Capitol Hill newspaper.

Trump's early morning tweet pushed a talking point that has been gaining credence in some conservative media outlets -- that Comey leaked classified information in memos that recounted conversations he had with the president.

The one memo that Comey is known to have made public was entirely unclassified, he testified. No evidence has emerged to contradict that.

The article in the Hill did not suggest otherwise. It reported that Comey had written seven memos in total and that at least four of them included classified material, which is consistent with Comey's testimony."
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #805 on: July 10, 2017, 09:57:39 PM »
Trump doesn't hesitate to play politics with mistaken facts (such as implying that Comey leaked classified information, when he did not):


The one memo that Comey is known to have made public was entirely unclassified, he testified. No evidence has emerged to contradict that.

The article in the Hill did not suggest otherwise. It reported that Comey had written seven memos in total and that at least four of them included classified material, which is consistent with Comey's testimony."


Don't the two bolded sections disagree with each other?
My memory is that Comey testified he passed memos containing classified material, presumably the four in the second bolded section, to an accomplice who then broadcast them.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me.


Re. quoting from suspect sources.


Whenever any of us quote any source we're putting our own credibility at stake. This site is different in that for the most part we've known each other for years, no one posting is a fan of Trumps, or Republicans, and we all share one very important concern, the climate.


We can't anonymously dump a stinking pile of misinformation and expect to escape the stench.


Link to whomever you like, but be aware that if your link proves to be erroneous, it's your credibility that is damaged.


Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #806 on: July 10, 2017, 10:11:00 PM »
Don't the two bolded sections disagree with each other?
My memory is that Comey testified he passed memos containing classified material, presumably the four in the second bolded section, to an accomplice who then broadcast them.
If I'm wrong please enlighten me.

Comey only made public the memos that contained unclassified information, while he confidentially passed on the four memos containing classified information to Mueller & the relevant Congressional committees.
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #807 on: July 10, 2017, 10:23:21 PM »
Re. quoting from suspect sources.


Whenever any of us quote any source we're putting our own credibility at stake. This site is different in that for the most part we've known each other for years, no one posting is a fan of Trumps, or Republicans, and we all share one very important concern, the climate.


We can't anonymously dump a stinking pile of misinformation and expect to escape the stench.


Link to whomever you like, but be aware that if your link proves to be erroneous, it's your credibility that is damaged.


Terry

Terry,

While the language ('stinking pile of misinformation') used in you post seems more biased than any language that I have read on the Palmer Report site.  You can rest assured that I screen the Palmer information before I report it.

ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #808 on: July 10, 2017, 10:38:19 PM »
At least fivethirtyeight thinks that the following Russiagate lead has substance:

"The Latest Trump-Russia Story Has The Makings Of A Blockbuster"

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-latest-trump-russia-story-has-the-makings-of-a-blockbuster/

Extract: "We don’t cover every Trump-Russia story here at FiveThirtyEight. Some of them can be repetitive, such as the many iterations of the now-familiar narrative around the controversial work that President Trump’s onetime campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, did in Ukraine. Others are heavily reliant on unnamed sources or make vague claims, which means they’re complicated to understand and hard to verify.

But The New York Times’s weekend story, which details Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting last June with a Russian lawyer from whom he hoped to receive negative information about Hillary Clinton, is significant. It has the potential to stick to the president for three reasons:"
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #809 on: July 11, 2017, 12:18:41 AM »
The linked CBS article is entitled: "Music publicist set up Trump Jr. – Russia meeting on behalf of pop star with Trump ties", and it indicates that the pop star's father Araz Agalarov was cited in the Christopher Steele dossier as having knowledge of Trump's deals with Russia officials during his 2013.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/music-publicist-set-up-trump-jr-russia-meeting-on-behalf-of-pop-star-with-trump-ties/

See also:

Title: "Just How Close Was Donald Trump to Putting His Name on a Tower in Moscow?"

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/07/10/trump_tower_moscow_just_how_close_was_it_to_happening.html

“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #810 on: July 11, 2017, 03:46:48 AM »
The ball of twine that is Trump and his administration......continues to unwind.  This is no surprise since there have been countless dots to connect.  When something doesn't make sense.....there is almost always a reason it doesn't make sense.

The psychology of the whole thing is fascinating to me.  Having seen.....and still see....very unethical behavior in the "C Suite" of corporations....in many ways this is no different.

But the NUMBER of people that Trump has lying for him is gobsmacking.  It includes most of his administration with the one exception of Mattis.....as well as many folks in Congress, and even those fake journalists on FOX (hi Sean, Eric, Dana, Lou, and the rest of the "Liar Gang").  There are a lot of folks obstructing justice right now.  Good thing that Jeff Sessions is building more prisons.😉

It will be interesting to see if the New York AG brings charges against those in the Trump group.  Federal law will get Donnie off the hook via a pardon.  But it won't help on any STATE charges.  So Donnie could in fact, do some time.

We have a LONG WAY to go.....so enjoy the ride.....🐎
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TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #811 on: July 11, 2017, 03:55:46 AM »

While the language ('stinking pile of misinformation') used in you post seems more biased than any language that I have read on the Palmer Report site.  You can rest assured that I screen the Palmer information before I report it.

ASLR


I was actually thinking of the 17 agencies meme, which has been proven to be untrue.


When any of us link to outside sources we have some responsibility to have both read them, and to be in agreement with whatever it is that they are pushing. If they, and therefor we, are later proved wrong, a retraction is probably to be expected.


Not every link is true or false, merely someone's opinion, such as the meeting between Trump's son and a foreign source that purportedly had dirt on Hillary. Some believe this is a big deal and link to sites that agree with them. I remember interactions between Canadian and American politicians & have concluded that it's business as usual. Neither side is right or wrong. I argue against pushing the meme lest politicians, recognizing how vulnerable they are to similar charges, will walk away from this, leaving those pushing it out in the cold. Others believe that it's a game changer. Only time will tell.


Best
Terry

AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #812 on: July 11, 2017, 04:18:16 AM »
Not every link is true or false, merely someone's opinion, such as the meeting between Trump's son and a foreign source that purportedly had dirt on Hillary.

The Huffington Post believes that Don Jr.'s meeting with the Russian lawyer may be illegal:

Title: “Exactly Why Donald Trump Jr.’s Meeting With A Russian Lawyer Could Be Illegal”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-campaign-finance-laws_us_5963e731e4b09b587d6151c6


Extract: “Campaign finance laws forbid the solicitation of anything of value from a foreign national.

The alleged illegal contribution would be any opposition research that Veselnitskaya purported to have about Clinton. Campaign finance law defines “contribution” broadly. In this case, the opposition research would qualify as an illegal in-kind contribution.”

Best,
ASLR

Edit: Admittedly, this is an unfolding story, but the following linked Huffington Post article is entitled: “Report: Email Sent To Donald Trump Jr. Spoke Of Russian Plot To Aid Trump Campaign”.  Thus if Mueller can confirm the NYT article, it is clear that the Trump campaign was trying to benefit itself by using information from the Kremlin:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-russia-email_us_59642625e4b09b587d617ff2


Extract: “Donald Trump Jr. was told in an email that a meeting to obtain information damaging to presidential rival Hillary Clinton was connected to intelligence gathered by the Russian government to help elect his father, according to a report from The New York Times.”
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 04:26:41 AM by AbruptSLR »
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pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #813 on: July 11, 2017, 04:42:49 AM »
Posting the NYT piece referenced in Huff Post.  The evidence of collusion is becoming clear.  It's notable that Don Sr tweeted about Hillary's 33,000 emails for the first time the same day of Don Jr's meeting.

Donald Trump Jr. was told that material damaging to Hillary Clinton was part of a Russian effort to aid his father

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/10/us/politics/donald-trump-jr-russia-email-candidacy.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Before arranging a meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer he believed would offer him compromising information about Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump Jr. was informed in an email that the material was part of a Russian government effort to aid his father’s candidacy, according to three people with knowledge of the email.
----

Opinion: Donald Jr.’s meeting is a legal game-changer

https://mobile.twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/884598287185084416

From now on, ignore the conventional wisdom about how the Russia scandal is not “resonating” with President Trump’s still-loyal base. The question at this point is what strikes a chord with special counsel Robert S. Mueller III — and what kind of legal jeopardy Trump’s closest associates, including his eldest son and son-in-law, might eventually face.
---
Despite what Trump apologists may say, it is not normal practice for a campaign to welcome information undermining an opponent, regardless of the source. In 2000, the Al Gore campaign was anonymously sent briefing books and a video that George W. Bush had used to prepare for an upcoming debate. Gore campaign officials immediately turned the material over to the FBI — which opened a criminal investigation.

pileus

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #814 on: July 11, 2017, 04:58:03 AM »
A linked WaPo commentary on collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, a hostile foreign power.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-latest-russia-revelations-lay-the-groundwork-for-a-conspiracy-case/2017/07/10/15b81256-65a8-11e7-a1d7-9a32c91c6f40_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.62348481896f

The latest Russia revelations lay the groundwork for a conspiracy case

Randall D. Eliason teaches white-collar criminal law at George Washington University Law School. He blogs at Sidebarsblog.com.

The news about Donald Trump Jr.’s meeting with a Kremlin-connected Russian lawyer is a significant development in the investigation of possible collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian nationals.

Of course, a single meeting, by itself, is not a crime. Much more remains to be learned, including what was actually said during this and other meetings and whether any agreements were made. But prosecutors in the office of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III are no doubt extremely interested in what happened that day in June 2016 at Trump Tower.
---
Collusion is usually defined as a secret agreement to do something improper. In the criminal-law world, we call that conspiracy. If unlawful collusion between the Trump campaign and Russian nationals did take place, criminal conspiracy would be one of the most likely charges.

A conspiracy is a partnership in crime. The federal conspiracy statute prohibits conspiracies to defraud the United States, which includes conspiracies to impede the lawful functions of the federal government — such as administering a presidential election.

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #815 on: July 11, 2017, 05:36:02 AM »
I'm glad to see us finally referring to conspiracy by it's proper name.


I remember well the ongoing conspiracy between Reagan and Thatcher, the IDU is still holding meetings and passing on information. Did Obama's threats against English trade represent a conspiracy against the Brexit folk? When did Russia become a "hostile" foreign entity, I missed the memo. Does the Democratic Party now need to retrieve their software from Canadian Liberals? Will Republicans demand their's from the Canadian Conservatives? Will Putin's opposition have to cut it's ties to the CIA?


If Robert III pushes ahead with this he'll open a Pandora's box that will have heads exploding all over Foggy Bottom, and poor little Robert the V will never find a place in the family business. It's for the little darlings, after all.


Terry


CraigsIsland

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #816 on: July 11, 2017, 07:26:20 AM »
I’m just hoping the world isn’t but too badly damaged when Mueller finally goes public.

I think there will be charges in both conspiring and collusion. The whole think reeks of corruption and I can’t wait for things in the legal arena to get going. It is crucial to get the charges to stick and hopefully change politics to dissuade campaigns from not taking all the information or money that could be dropped on the table.

Jim Pettit

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #817 on: July 11, 2017, 03:35:25 PM »
I was actually thinking of the 17 agencies meme, which has been proven to be untrue.

According to Trump apologists and other right wing sources, there are not 17 intelligence agencies. Of course, officially--and by that I mean "sources unrelated to and therefore not protective of Donald Trump or his whackadoodle ideology", there are indeed 17 intelligence agencies, and all 17 did indeed agree as a unit that Russia was behind the hacking of the 2016 election. (In a nutshell: the United States Intelligence Committee is made up of 16 agencies. The USIC stated in an October memo that "The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations.")

IMHO, it's silly to split these hairs as a defense. "It isn't officials from every law enforcement office in the state that think I murdered all those people; it's just my city's police department and the county sheriff. So there!!!"

The thing is, whether it was all 17 agencies, or just four, or even just one, this fact still stands, and is coming into sharper focus every day: Russia hacked and influenced our 2016 election, and they did so with the express approval--and sometimes under direct invitation--of the Trump campaign. That's treasonous. That's illegal. And that. Is. A. Big. F***ing. Deal.

Much as some might wish all the Russian stuff away, that's not happening. And shame on us if we let it.

SteveMDFP

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #818 on: July 11, 2017, 04:12:24 PM »
We have seen in this thread an argument that public focus on "Russiagate" is a distraction from opposing Trump/Republican policies harmful to people and the planet.

In fact, the opposite is true.  Public focus on ongoing scandals has thoroughly undermined the ability of Trump et al to pass ANY major legislation to date.  Meanwhile, Democrats have been highly focused on protecting health care gains, with adequate effect so far.  Obamacare repeal efforts aren't dead yet, but they're pretty clearly on life support.

An article in The Hill details the corrosive effect of the Russiagate scandal on Republican efforts to enact regressive policies.

The Memo: Russian cloud casts new shadow over GOP agenda
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341371-the-memo-russian-cloud-casts-new-shadow-over-gop-agenda
Quote
President Trump is under a new Russian cloud, frustrating Republicans who see their fraught efforts to push a legislative agenda being overshadowed once again.
. . .
The news comes at a critical juncture for Republican leaders, who have struggled to move the party's agenda on Capitol Hill. The Senate is hoping to pass an ObamaCare repeal-and-replace bill this month, but getting such a measure through the upper chamber in that timeframe looks more and more unlikely.
. . .
The furor has Republicans lamenting new distractions from the business of passing legislation. The GOP-controlled Congress has not passed any major bills, and its efforts to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act — a Republican pledge to voters since ObamaCare’s inception — are shrouded in uncertainty.

Judd Gregg, a former GOP senator from New Hampshire who is also a columnist with The Hill, described the Russia controversies as “extremely unhelpful.”

Gregg added that “they undermine the message, they distract, they take away from the time that administration officials, including the president and the chief of staff, can be engaged in policy. And they affect the confidence of congressional Republicans in the White House’s ability to stay focused.”

Russiagate isn't a distraction from efforts to prevent the Republican agenda, it's a force-multiplier to aid such efforts.

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #819 on: July 11, 2017, 09:43:36 PM »
Ego is a fascinating thing....especially the OVERABUNDANT variety.  The person who has the oversized ego.....doesn't know it, and can't see it.  It is a HUGE blind spot.  Looks like everyone in the Trump family...and almost everyone in the administration is afflicted.

Too much ego is always a bad thing...and eventually will swallow up whoever has too much.

Tick....tick....tick....tick....



FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #820 on: July 11, 2017, 10:46:48 PM »
Question I have is this:  Is Sean Hannity involved in the cover-up.  Remember... y Sean's own admission...he is NOT a journalist.  I want to know if he was knowingly involved in the coverup.

I think Sean and Donnie would make EXCELLENT cell mates.👮  Donnie is so SOL.  Couldn't happen to a more deserving family....

Keep in mind that everyone in the cabinet + Mikey needs to be 86'd.  The whole process of who stays and who goes...and WHEN will be interesting to watch.

FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #821 on: July 12, 2017, 12:54:48 AM »
Ego is a fascinating thing....especially the OVERABUNDANT variety.  The person who has the oversized ego.....doesn't know it, and can't see it.  It is a HUGE blind spot.  Looks like everyone in the Trump family...and almost everyone in the administration is afflicted.

Too much ego is always a bad thing...and eventually will swallow up whoever has too much.

Tick....tick....tick....tick....



Hail President Pence - or will it be - Sieg Heil Pence?
The modesty of your own pronouncements has been noted. As you said "Ego is a fascinating thing"


For your modest consideration.
Terry

Buddy

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #822 on: July 12, 2017, 02:20:48 AM »
I think one of the next moves will be to pull Jarred's security clearance.  I will be surprised if he still has his clearance by the end of July.  I find it amazing that he has it now.

How many "mulligan's" are they allowed?

Remember.....Jarred has a building that is in DESPERATE need of debt re-financing.  Whoever the current holders of debt on the building are now....have certain "covenants" that must continually be met.

Covenants could include cash flow levels, debt to equity levels, or anything else that the holder of the debt required of Jarred and his company/partners.  If those covenants are NOT MET...a cascade of events can put Jarred's ownership at risk.

I have to believe that US Senators are now more keenly aware that Jarred is an easy mark for foreign blackmail.

Tick.....tick.....tick.....tick

« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 12:26:35 PM by Buddy »
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budmantis

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #823 on: July 12, 2017, 06:03:53 AM »
Buddy:

Tick, Tick, Tick is right! Trump is running out of time.

Terry:

Pence may be a fundamentalist Christian, but I doubt he's a fascist. I hope he can be implicated in this whole mess and be rendered ineligible to replace Trump, but I have my doubts. FWIW, I doubt Pence would be elected in 2020 because of his blind allegiance to Trump, and the fact that he is so conservative. I'm sure the Republican controlled Congress and Senate would be very happy to have him replace Trump.

In a way I envy you Terry for living in Canada, but I've got to say that at times you go too far with the sarcasm.

BudM

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #824 on: July 12, 2017, 09:40:28 AM »
Buddy:

Tick, Tick, Tick is right! Trump is running out of time.

Terry:

Pence may be a fundamentalist Christian, but I doubt he's a fascist. I hope he can be implicated in this whole mess and be rendered ineligible to replace Trump, but I have my doubts. FWIW, I doubt Pence would be elected in 2020 because of his blind allegiance to Trump, and the fact that he is so conservative. I'm sure the Republican controlled Congress and Senate would be very happy to have him replace Trump.

In a way I envy you Terry for living in Canada, but I've got to say that at times you go too far with the sarcasm.

BudM


I too believe Pence is too Conservative, too Christian, and too Unlikable to be elected - Unless he's the incumbent.
Even with all the advantages incumbency, he could pull a Gerry Ford and fall on his sword, but he doesn't seem like the kind to "Take one for the Gipper", if I can mix Republican Presidents metaphorically.
Without an impeachment or death, I'd rate his chance of becoming President as vanishingly small.


I'm not sure where to draw the line WRT fascism. Big Government working hand in hand with Big Business was Mussolini's definition. Republicans rail against Big Government, but usually seem to grow them whenever they're in power.


I can't take any credit for my parent's decision to bequeath me a Canadian citizenship. I'm glad that they did, but it was their choice, not mine. I did decide to come home after 40 years wandering the desert, but perhaps a more reasonable person would have returned when they killed Kennedy and marched off to Vietnam.


In person I'm not terribly sarcastic. Pedanticism is something I actively try to control, but sarcasm isn't something I'm normally comfortable with. Thanks for the heads up.


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #825 on: July 12, 2017, 01:14:26 PM »
One of the things we have to keep in mind, is the immense power and authority of the special counsel Bob Muller.  He has a "wide berth" to look into almost anything that comes up in his investigation.

If you look back at history....the Bill Clinton impeachment because of his lying about his affair with Monica Lewinski and covering it up...started out when a special prosecutor was appointed to look into the "Whitewater" real estate transaction by the Clintons.  Nothing substantive was ultimately found regarding Whitewater...but the special counsel investigation did stumble upon the Monica Lewinski fiasco in the meantime.

Likewise....Donnie and his motley crew likely have a lot more legal liability ahead of them:

1). Money laundering
2). Mob related activities (both Russian and US)
3). Income tax issues

So this "process" has a LONG way to go yet.  And keep in mind that the New York State attorney general will be on the Trump family like "bees to honey".  So there are both federal and state issues in play.

Six months ago when I said RussiaGate would make WaterGate look immaterial.....this is what I was looking ahead to.

Both Donnie and his son in law are now going to come under significant financial duress as the Trump brand gets trashed.  If many of them weren't going to jail...I would suggest moving to Russia where they could work more closely with their pal Vlad.

Mike Pence will become a casualty of RussiaGate....as will several in the US House and Senate...(yea Jason...I'm talking about you).....and several ex politicians like Rudy....and perhaps Newt as well.

I'll order another pallet of popcorn for the coming months...😳
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #826 on: July 12, 2017, 09:27:12 PM »
Are you saying that any time a President is elected it's OK to start up a vast, open ended investigation against him and his family? Can you imagine where the Bushes would be if an overzealous prosecutor began digging into the source of the family's wealth? From our side of the aisle Joe Kennedy might have faced embarrassing questions re. bootlegging, and can you imagine Jack being questioned about marital fidelity during his white house years?


If Trump and Putin conspired to steal the election, have fun trying to prove it. Whether he was contemplating building a tower in Moscow, Beijing or Baghdad just isn't relative. Havana might have been a problem, but that's a different kettle of fish.
When Pelosi advised her followers to lighten up on Russiagate because Trump might "self-impeach", that was my verification that Russiagate was nothing but a ruse to start an investigation, and that the investigation would be nothing more or less than a witch hunt.


Just as Ken Starr should have been reigned in when the Whitewater Scandal was disproven, so Mueller should be forced to restrict his investigation to the original charges.


I prefer government by elected officials to government by appointed prosecutor. - and I remember that Clinton was the first Democrat to win back to back presidencies since FDR


Trump is a blight on the country. So were both the Bushes.
Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #827 on: July 12, 2017, 09:45:21 PM »
"A force de chercher de bonnes raisons, on en trouve; on les dit; et après on y tient, non pas tant parce qu'elles sont bonnes que pour ne pas se démentir." Choderlos de Laclos "You struggle to come up with some valid reasons, then cling to them, not because they're good, but just to not back down."

TerryM

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #828 on: July 12, 2017, 10:01:14 PM »

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #829 on: July 13, 2017, 03:06:19 AM »
The new FBI Director, Christopher Wray believes that Mueller is not conducting a 'Witch Hunt':

"Wray Says Russia Probe Not a ‘Witch Hunt,’ Pledges ‘Independent’ FBI"

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/christopher-wray-pledges-independent-fbi-if-confirmed-director-n782131

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #830 on: July 13, 2017, 03:11:04 AM »
Brad Sherman and Al Green have filed a "long-shot" impeachment article with the US House of Representatives, based on obstruction of justice charges in the Russia investigation:

"Congressman Brad Sherman files impeachment article against President Trump"

http://abc30.com/politics/california-rep-brad-sherman-files-impeachment-article-against-president-trump/2209908/

Extract: :"Rep. Brad Sherman, D-Sherman Oaks, announced Wednesday that he and another congressman have filed an article of impeachment against President Donald Trump.

Fellow Democrat Congressman Al Green of Texas co-sponsored the article.
...
Fifty percent of the House of Representatives and two-thirds of the Senate must agree to remove a president from office."
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 09:44:37 AM by AbruptSLR »
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #831 on: July 13, 2017, 03:28:06 AM »
The new FBI Director, Christopher Wray believes that Mueller is not conducting a 'Witch Hunt':

"Wray Says Russia Probe Not a ‘Witch Hunt,’ Pledges ‘Independent’ FBI"



What do they expect him to say?

"I will end all investigations regarding Trump. That was the plan all along."

or perhaps:

"I am loyal to Trump not the constitution."


Is not like Trump picks have credibility. The National Security Advisor was sacked for lying, the Attorney general lied under oath, let's not even mention the in laws. These people will say anything that saves their skin.
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #832 on: July 13, 2017, 04:25:18 AM »
The new FBI Director, Christopher Wray believes that Mueller is not conducting a 'Witch Hunt':

"Wray Says Russia Probe Not a ‘Witch Hunt,’ Pledges ‘Independent’ FBI"



What do they expect him to say?

"I will end all investigations regarding Trump. That was the plan all along."

or perhaps:

"I am loyal to Trump not the constitution."


Is not like Trump picks have credibility. The National Security Advisor was sacked for lying, the Attorney general lied under oath, let's not even mention the in laws. These people will say anything that saves their skin.

Buddy thinks that Donnie will have a lot of company (including Sessions, etc.) in the doghouse when this is all done.  If Wray betrays his pledge, who knows whether he could join the rest.

Edit: Assuming that the Senate votes to confirm Wray (as is highly likely).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 04:33:24 AM by AbruptSLR »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #833 on: July 13, 2017, 10:55:37 AM »
I concur with the NYT op/ed piece that both the media and Mueller should look beyond Don Jr. and focus on Kushner:

Title: "All Roads Now Lead to Kushner"

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/13/opinion/kushner-donald-trump-jr-emails.html

Extract: "The question is where this goes next. I suggest two directions.
First, look beyond Donald Trump Jr. to Jared Kushner and to President Trump himself.

Second, explore how Trump Jr.’s attempt at collusion with Russians may relate to the bizarre effort by Kushner to set up a secret communication channel with the Kremlin.

In 1960, the Kremlin made a similar offer to support the candidacy of John F. Kennedy against Richard Nixon, but the Kennedy campaign rebuffed it. Likewise, when the Al Gore campaign in 2000 received confidential materials relating to the George W. Bush campaign, it called the F.B.I.

Trump Jr. didn’t call the F.B.I.; instead, he responded, “I love it.”

The Trumps insist that the president himself was unaware of the Russian offer. Yet the day after Trump Jr. received the first email and presumably had his phone conversation about the supposedly incriminating material, his father promised to give “a major speech” in which “we’re going to be discussing all of the things that have taken place with the Clintons. I think you’re going to find it very informative and very, very interesting.”

That speech targeting Hillary Clinton didn’t take place. But on June 15, the first leak of stolen Democratic materials did.

In addition, McClatchy reports that investigators in Congress and the Justice Department are exploring whether the Trump campaign digital operation — supervised by Kushner — helped guide Russia’s remarkably sophisticated efforts to use internet bots to target voters with fake news attacking Hillary Clinton.

Then there was the extraordinary initiative by Kushner in the transition period to set up the secret communications channel. There’s no indication that the channel was actually established, and the assumption has been that the communications would have required visits to Russian consulates — which would be bizarre.

But Barton Gellman, a careful national security writer, has another theory. He notes that James Comey, the ousted F.B.I. director, in testimony to Congress referred to the risk that this channel could “capture all of your conversations.” Gellman suggests that this may mean that Kushner sought mobile Russian scrambling equipment to take to Trump Tower."
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #834 on: July 13, 2017, 11:21:37 AM »
Get ready for more WH spin:

Title: "Donald Trump Jr.’s Free Speech Defense"

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/07/donald_trump_jr_s_free_speech_defense_is_as_bogus_as_it_sounds.html

Extract: "Get ready for the latest defense for Donald Trump Jr.’s actions: He had a First Amendment right to collude with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary Clinton. This defense, which has been advanced by noted First Amendment expert Eugene Volokh and others, posits that he cannot be charged under campaign finance laws for soliciting a foreign contribution because seeking and providing such information would be protected political speech, or at least protected for an American to receive. It’s a dangerous argument which fails to recognize the compelling interest promoted by Congress’s ban on foreign contributions: specifically guarding American self-government against foreign intrusion.

To let someone off the hook who solicited “very high level and sensitive information” from a hostile government because there may be cases in which information from a foreign source does not raise the same danger to our national security and right of self-government is to turn the First Amendment into a tool to kill American democracy.

Put aside the incredulity Trump World would deserve if it pivots from saying there were no campaign contacts with the Russian government to acknowledging the contacts and saying they were just free speech. As a matter of protecting American democracy, the argument is pernicious and threatens the very core of what it means for “we the people” to decide who governs us."
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #835 on: July 13, 2017, 01:13:56 PM »
1). Who was the IT person (or persons) that worked with Jarred Kushner in their targeting during the campaign?  The FBI would like to talk with you before you go to prison.😳

2). Muller has, no doubt, many crumbs to follow if the Trump campaign was sloppy like the meeting with Donald Jr.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #836 on: July 13, 2017, 01:18:10 PM »
When considering Trump and the Russian Federation and Vladimir Putin in particular, one needs to take account of the Slavic temperament.

Here is " A VERY RUSSIAN CHARLIE BROWN "
"Para a Causa do Povo a Luta Continua!"
"And that's all I'm going to say about that". Forrest Gump
"Damn, I wanted to see what happened next" (Epitaph)

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #837 on: July 13, 2017, 05:11:55 PM »
Jeff Sessions is now refusing to release documents related to his contacts with Russians.  The walls continue to close in....

Tick.....tick.....tick Jeff.  It's only a matter of time...
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #838 on: July 13, 2017, 07:35:13 PM »
As reported by the Palmer Report this afternoon...our little Russia lawyer friend who met with Donnie Jr, Paul, and Jarred.....met with at least one other politician on that trip.

This is what I have thought all along:  Russia has figured out what lobbyists and big business have known for a long time....politicians can be bought...especially Republican politicians.  And that is why RussiaGate will turn out to be so broad and so deep.

Why spend all that money on planes and ships.....when Republican politicians are so easily bought?  You can buy a change in policy....especially when you have people with no ethics and eager to be bought like Trump, Cruz, Collins, Chaffetz, Nunez, Guilliani, Pence, Sessions, etc (there are more).  These are folks that can be easily compromised......and the FBI will prove it IF they can finish their investigation.

Tick.....tick.....tick....tick.   

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #839 on: July 13, 2017, 09:24:35 PM »
"Collusion....we don't have that YET."

That was Kellyann Conways "sign show" on TASS (FOX).  You never know where that little Freudian slip is going to show up.  So I guess she is looking forward someone proving collusion coming down the road.

Again.....psychology is so interesting.  Body language......Freudian slips.....we (humans) just can't hide things very well.  Especially when you lie as much as KellyAnne or Donnie.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #840 on: July 13, 2017, 09:35:20 PM »
As reported by the Palmer Report this afternoon...our little Russia lawyer friend who met with Donnie Jr, Paul, and Jarred.....met with at least one other politician on that trip.

This is what I have thought all along:  Russia has figured out what lobbyists and big business have known for a long time....politicians can be bought...especially Republican politicians.  And that is why RussiaGate will turn out to be so broad and so deep.

Why spend all that money on planes and ships.....when Republican politicians are so easily bought?  You can buy a change in policy....especially when you have people with no ethics and eager to be bought like Trump, Cruz, Collins, Chaffetz, Nunez, Guilliani, Pence, Sessions, etc (there are more).  These are folks that can be easily compromised......and the FBI will prove it IF they can finish their investigation.

Tick.....tick.....tick....tick.


This couldn't be the same Russian lawyer that Loretta Lynch let into the country under "extraordinary circumstances", after her entry had been denied?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-12/why-did-loretta-lynch-grant-trump-jrs-russian-lawyer-special-visa-enter-america


Terry

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #841 on: July 13, 2017, 10:44:41 PM »
Yes, Terry, it must indeed be a plot by the Democrats.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #842 on: July 13, 2017, 10:48:31 PM »
I've just watched some of the news stories on this, and I have a possibly stupid question: In that e-mail to Junior that Goldstone guy said they have some confidential material that would 'incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia'. So, what dealings are they talking about? Is that the uranium deal thingy?
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #843 on: July 13, 2017, 10:54:27 PM »
I've just watched some of the news stories on this, and I have a possibly stupid question: In that e-mail to Junior that Goldstone guy said they have some confidential material that would 'incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia'. So, what dealings are they talking about? Is that the uranium deal thingy?
There was nothing specific about the material.
-- But Goldstone made clear the Russian govt is behind it. So, we have reached the point to discuss the legal definition of treason.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #844 on: July 13, 2017, 11:01:09 PM »
I've just watched some of the news stories on this, and I have a possibly stupid question: In that e-mail to Junior that Goldstone guy said they have some confidential material that would 'incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia'. So, what dealings are they talking about? Is that the uranium deal thingy?

Most likely the "but her emails" thingy we all keep hearing about.


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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #845 on: July 13, 2017, 11:09:20 PM »
There was nothing specific about the material.

Right, thanks.

Quote
-- But Goldstone made clear the Russian govt is behind it. So, we have reached the point to discuss the legal definition of treason.

As far as I know the US isn't at war with Russia, and so you'll have to use another word for this. Or not you, the media rather.

But are the Trumps corrupt to the bone? No doubt about it.

Most likely the "but her emails" thingy we all keep hearing about.

Where do you keep hearing about that? I don't believe the MSM really discussed the content of the leaked mails much, or for a stretched period of time. Not that they have to talk about it now. The election is over, so no one has to choose between Trump and Clinton. They're all corrupt, as far as I am concerned. We live in an oligarchy/kleptocracy.

I just wondered if 'dealings with Russia' was referring to something other than the uranium deal.
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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #846 on: July 13, 2017, 11:17:00 PM »
 

This couldn't be the same Russian lawyer that Loretta Lynch let into the country under "extraordinary circumstances", after her entry had been denied?


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-07-12/ why-did-loretta-lynch-grant-trump-jrs-russian-lawyer-special-visa-enter-america


Terry

This zerohedge piece appears to be written with an aim to smear Obama and Lynch.  It's derived from a more complete story in The Hill:
Exclusive: DOJ let Russian lawyer into US before she met with Trump team
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/341788-exclusive-doj-let-russian-lawyer-into-us-before-she-met-with-trump

She was allowed in to do legal work on a Federal case against a Russian company.  It seems she may have overstayed her visa, and done unauthorized lobbying work, as well as meeting with the Trump campaign.  I can't see that Obama/Lynch did anything wrong here, though she certainly did shady things.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #847 on: July 14, 2017, 12:32:28 AM »
As far as I know the US isn't at war with Russia, and so you'll have to use another word for this. Or not you, the media rather.
Undermining an election (pillar of democracy) can be seen as a hostile act. No warships needed.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #848 on: July 14, 2017, 01:22:52 AM »
@neven

about corruption:

corruption is inevitable once a person involved in a business of a greater than a certain size gets into any high ranking office.

imo there should be more restrictions in the upper as well as the lower end as to who is eligible.

trump f. the upper and reagan f. the lower end examples. same for income levels.

more of this could fill libraries so i keep it short and look foeward to leaen your opinion on the thought in general.

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Re: Russiagate
« Reply #849 on: July 14, 2017, 01:39:21 AM »
The House & Senate Intelligence Committees are expanding their investigations of Jared:

“Jared Kushner Under Investigation for Helping Coordinate Russian Cyberattacks: Bombshell Report”

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/jared-kushner-under-investigation-helping-coordinate-russian-cyberattacks

Extract: “The House and Senate Intelligence Committees and the Justice Department are now investigating whether the Trump campaign assisted Russia in targeting voters and spreading fake news about Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election.

According to McClatchy, investigators are specifically evaluating if the digital operation headed by Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner directed Russian cyber operatives to particular voting jurisdictions in key states where support for Clinton was waning. Investigators are also probing whether the Trump campaign helped Russia release thousands of emails from Democratic leaders through Wikileaks.”
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