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Neven

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Political theatre/wrestling
« on: November 12, 2018, 09:20:08 PM »
This thread that can be used to post links to mainstream media articles that rile up and promote further division, without adding anything of substance with regards to policy and to what the people of the USA or any other nation want their country to become in the (near) future.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 01:24:07 PM by Neven »
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AbruptSLR

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2018, 09:34:05 PM »
This thread that can be used to post links to mainstream media articles that rile up and promote further division, without adding anything of substance with regards to policy and to what the people of the USA or any other nation want their country to become in the (near) future.

Neven,

You have convinced me to stop posting in you forum.

Sayonara,
ASLR
“It is not the strongest or the most intelligent who will survive but those who can best manage change.”
― Leon C. Megginson

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2018, 09:41:24 PM »
So long and thanks for all the (science) fish.
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Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2018, 09:48:12 PM »
In another thread I have closed, I explained what brought me to changing my 'management style' and opening this thread. Should've done it sooner, but I'm slow that way.

Quote
Just like I won't allow any links to climate risk denier websites, I'm not going to allow any more clickbait to political theatre and lawyer bullshit. That stuff is great for ratings, indirectly propping up Trump, and keeping froth at the mouth, but it's destroying the United States of America and the rest of the world.

People can discuss politics if they want, but I'm done with anything that isn't related to policy and vision and ideas, in other words, things that bring Trump down and help the US go forward again at the same time.

This won't be easy to moderate, which is why I have put this decision off for so long. So, please, bear with me.
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oren

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2018, 09:56:59 PM »
Thank you Neven. These divisive political shouting matches are pointless.
ASLR, your scientific contribution to this forum is very high. I hope you continue posting.

sedziobs

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2018, 10:03:10 PM »
rile up and promote further division
I hope you will also keep the other threads clean of divisive posts that align with your opinions.

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2018, 10:05:03 PM »
rile up and promote further division
I hope you will also keep the other threads clean of divisive posts that align with your opinions.

I will try.
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Bruce Steele

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2018, 06:53:28 AM »
ASLR, You were always way out in front, carefully out there. I will miss your insights.

mostly_lurking

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2018, 08:07:24 AM »
Donnie’s weekly Gallup poll numbers are “heading south” again.  His approval number is 38% (3% above his worst number of 35%) .... and his disapproval number is 56% (4% below his historical worst of 60%).

Donnie's numbers will grow worse over time.  The process continues ...

Just the usual cherry picking of one poll. :-\

Rob Dekker

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2018, 09:21:25 AM »
Neven,

You have convinced me to stop posting in you forum.

Sayonara,
ASLR
So long and thanks for all the (science) fish.

Neven, you already knocked out one of the most valued contributors to this forum.

What is the purpose of this endeavor of yours exactly ?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 09:49:02 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2018, 09:48:01 AM »
Neven, you already knocked out one of the most valued contributors to this forum.

What is the purpose of this endeavor of yours exactly ?

Staying motivated.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2018, 09:50:56 AM »
Neven, you already knocked out one of the most valued contributors to this forum.

What is the purpose of this endeavor of yours exactly ?

Staying motivated.

Motivated for what, exactly ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2018, 10:02:08 AM »
For running this forum and continuing blogging again.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2018, 10:39:56 AM »
You could perfectly do so without shutting down the Russia threads.

In fact, if you would not have done anything, you could still be

"running this forum and continuing blogging again".

There was no need to shut off anything, Neven.
So why did you ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2018, 10:41:52 AM »
You could perfectly do so without shutting down the Russia threads.

In fact, if you would not have done anything, you could still be

"running this forum and continuing blogging again".

There was no need to shut off anything, Neven.
So why did you ?

Where have I shut down the Russia threads?

Instead of asking 'why' all the time, why don't you read my comments? The answer is in #3.
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Rob Dekker

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2018, 11:23:08 AM »
You could perfectly do so without shutting down the Russia threads.

In fact, if you would not have done anything, you could still be

"running this forum and continuing blogging again".

There was no need to shut off anything, Neven.
So why did you ?

Where have I shut down the Russia threads?

OK. Here is the "Russia Russia Russia" thread :

Quote
Any links to articles on the relationship between Trump and Russia can from now on be posted here. This thread is to be about Russia only.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,1974.msg180699.html#msg180699

and the entire Russia investigation thread was shut down :
Quote
To be continued here.
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2301.msg180697.html#msg180697

And you are also constricting the Trump presidency thread :

Quote
I've opened a special thread for anything that isn't related to the policies of the Trump administration, here. Any links to his tweets, his outrageous behaviour, his hair, how he's polling, and so on and so forth, can go there.

And in the process, you have knocked out AbruptSLR, one of the most valued commenters on this forum.

Are you happy now, Neven ?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 11:31:18 AM by Rob Dekker »
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2018, 11:27:25 AM »
Give me one example of where I have shut down a 'Russia thread'.



Yes, annoying, I know.
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mostly_lurking

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2018, 11:36:38 AM »
..snip

And in the process, you have knocked out AbruptSLR, one of the most valued commenters on this forum.

Are you happy now, Neven ?

He didn't knock anyone. If an over 5 year/16K+msg user takes his ball and goes home because he doesn't like the new rules... well...it's on him.

Rob Dekker

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2018, 11:37:55 AM »
Give me one example of where I have shut down a 'Russia thread'.

Yes, annoying, I know.

I showed you already. This one :
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2301.msg180697.html#msg180697

You shut it down completely.

Can't even post anything there.

Why, Neven ?
This is our planet. This is our time.
Let's not waste either.

silkman

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2018, 11:55:45 AM »
Thank you Neven. These divisive political shouting matches are pointless.
ASLR, your scientific contribution to this forum is very high. I hope you continue posting.

I do hope that this approach by Neven to keep the political debate relevant will help us maintain the quality of this Forum for scientific exchange and debate.

ASLR's immense scientific contribution has been little short of remarkable and must represent a major commitment of time and energy to something ASLR saw as important. How do I follow ENSO without it?

That we lose such a contributor as a result of differences of opinion that are related to the increasingly intemperate "debate" on the political state of a world where fact and fiction can no longer be separated gives me cause for concern.

Both the science and the political environment that we find ourselves in are important but I fear we're losing the sense of purpose that made this Forum different.

It had become a respected, widely read and effective consolidator of the observations of its members that has on occasion contributed significantly to the advancement of mainstream science.

Let's not lose that invaluable asset in pursuit of another online bully pulpit for individual political views.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:31:15 PM by silkman »

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2018, 11:59:15 AM »
Give me one example of where I have shut down a 'Russia thread'.

Yes, annoying, I know.

I showed you already. This one :
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2301.msg180697.html#msg180697

You shut it down completely.

Can't even post anything there.

That's not a Russia thread, just like Whitewater wasn't about Monica Lewinsky's skills.

Quote
Why, Neven ?

I've explained why, Rob.
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Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2018, 12:29:26 PM »
"Both the science and the political environment that we find ourselves in are important but I fear we're losing the sense of purpose that made this Forum different.

It had become a respected, widely read and effective consolidator of the observations of its members that has on occasion contributed significantly to the advancement of mainstream science.

Let's not lose that invaluable asset in pursuit of another online bully pulpit for individual political views."

Silkman, I'm sorry if I disappoint you, but a) I'm only human and given I run this forum practically pro bono, I have to do it my way, b) I've always made clear I'm an activist, and the ASIB, ASIG and ASIF are a result of this activism, c) no one is forcing you to pay attention to the threads in 'The rest', which is only 1 of 13 categories, d) the ASIF isn't static, it's a dynamic 'story' with a bell curve.
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silkman

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2018, 12:53:11 PM »
Neven

You don't disappoint me. I admire your commitment and passion and share your fears for the future.

It's also absolutely clear that the direction of travel being taken by our political leaders represents a massive problem that threatens to make the science irrelevant so it's entirely appropriate for it to be a big part our our debate.

I do however, think that with strongly held views and vested interests aplenty it creates a totally different environment that is much more difficult to moderate.

That you are willing to take it on is admirable and I suspect, with due respect to the late Stan Lee, you might just be a little bit superhuman :)

You have every right to be very proud of what you have achieved.


magnamentis

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2018, 09:07:25 PM »
why do you humans have so much trouble to let go of what they're accustomed to?

this forum has an owner and he has the freedom to decide with what is his, only condition to our freedom is that we have to be ready to deal with the consequences.

whoever doesn't like it is free to look for alternatives, that is what freedom and respect means.
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Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2018, 10:47:55 PM »
Comments from other threads that fit better here:

Apparently Cindy Hyde-Smith (Senator from Mississippi running for re-election) is trying to “snatch defeat from the jaws of victory” by stating that “If he invited me to a public hanging, I’d be on the front row.” 

Mississippi used to have PUBLIC HANGINGS.  This is no laughing matter.  I’m not sure that even Donnie would say something like this (in public anyway).

Remember ..... Donnie is going to need EVERY Senate vote he can get his grubby little hands on when it comes time to remove him from office.  It will require 2/3 of the ATTENDING Senators to vote him out of office.  If the Senate is split 53/47 ..... if there are 20 Republican senators (out of the 53) ... then Donnie is a goner.

As time goes on ..... and more and more people are indicted .... and his corruption is televised for all to see .... just one Senate seat could make all the difference in the world.  That’s why Donnie is worried about Florida as well.

Mississippi is still more than likely to vote for Smith, even with her racist statement.  But that was certainly an “unforced error” on her part.

......Maxine Waters will likely the new Chair of the House Financial Services Committee[/b]; which will give her subpoena power to expose any possible illicit links between Deutsche Bank and Team
God help us all. I don't think even the Dems' would want her in that job.
Yes, "mostly_lurching" intimates & doesn't believe God can help us. Also, "mostly_lurching" is afraid of Congress-woman Maxine Waters.
MW is about to research the scummy depths of the gunny sack of "don'T rump" corruption, collusion & money-laundering of putin & russian billionaire stealings. Suspect the gunny sack may originate, dating back to the 1990's(longer)?  Congress-woman Maxine Waters (such since the 1990's) is the perfect Congress-woman to explore the pit of "don'T rump" hell.
In February 2017 Rachael Maddow already made known the first evidences of "donT rump" money-laundering of russian (& putin) billionaires. Listen long to MSNBC, Rachael Maddow, Chris Hayes & Lawrence O'donnell. The inhumanity of "don'T rump", putin, rich men, & re-pubic-lick-uns will pour out of the nest of vipers into the light of day, now. Review some of the MSNBC interviews with Congress-woman Maxine Waters. See the glaring light MW has already poured on "don'T rump". Yes, her light will be able to even illuminate the Black Hole pit of "don'T rump". 
That is why "mostly_lurching" is already nay-saying.     

Keep in mind that it is Donnie’s policies that are leading the way in the current pullback in the world economy.  His tax cuts gave the stick market a “sugar high” based on stock buybacks.  With the tariffs continuing to slow the world economy ...... and Donnie hell bent on bringing China to its knees, we are likely headed to the following items:

1). Additional round in the tariff war with China and others
2). Additional weakness in the equity markets over the next year or so (this bear market is just getting started.  As I noted early this year .... markets are headed south. 
3). Donnie is going to become even more unhinged as more and more people get indicted. 

When you have bad policies AND bad implementation .... bad things happen.

Sounds like Kijrsten Nielsen is on her way out as Secretary if Homeland Security.  I wonder how she feels now about kissing Donnie’s ass for several months, and proving she can lie with the best of them?

What is the rest of the Trump administration thinking, as he gets ready to fire another of his loyal soldiers who went out of her way to kiss his ass, and then be kicked to the curb?

Could be a bloody couple of months.....
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charles_oil

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2018, 11:05:40 PM »
Seems best to concentrate all the political guff in a (hopefully very) few threads - I'd certainly rather read the informed comments on sea ice and the significant associated environmental ramifications on the forum than see too many, often emotional / personal political discussions. 


The Trump circus is so noisy and disruptive that its hard to keep watching the Ice melt !


Martin Gisser

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2018, 03:21:02 AM »
This thread that can be used to post links to mainstream media articles that rile up and promote further division, without adding anything of substance with regards to policy and to what the people of the USA or any other nation want their country to become in the (near) future.

Neven,

You have convinced me to stop posting in you forum.

Sayonara,
ASLR

Fuck. If only the red lurks would do same.
Please reconsider.
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Martin Gisser

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2018, 03:30:20 AM »
This thread that can be used to post links to mainstream media articles that rile up and promote further division, without adding anything of substance with regards to policy and to what the people of the USA or any other nation want their country to become in the (near) future.
For mostly non-mainstream "articles that rile up and promote further division, without adding anything of substance" go to https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2272.0.html
"The universe is irrelevant for all practical purposes, so better forget about being thrown into it." --Florifulgurator

oren

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2018, 03:32:17 AM »
Seems best to concentrate all the political guff in a (hopefully very) few threads - I'd certainly rather read the informed comments on sea ice and the significant associated environmental ramifications on the forum than see too many, often emotional / personal political discussions. 


The Trump circus is so noisy and disruptive that its hard to keep watching the Ice melt !
+1

Neven

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Re: Political theatre, good for ratings, otherwise useless
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2018, 09:24:05 AM »
Another comment that fits better here (discussing/criticizing the political theatre):

12 min segment covers how to read an article to the end to get the "whole story" right, Bob Woodward looking "hard" for two years to find no evidence of "collusion or espionage" between Trump and Russia, Wikileaks quotes from Democratic Party sources showing Hillary Clinton's biggest "vulnerability" in 2016 was her Russia connections, and more


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Neven

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2018, 10:14:03 PM »
Over the last two years a lot of discussion of Trump's mind. This is an interesting take, I think:

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Martin Gisser

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2018, 06:23:09 PM »
Julian Assange charged in secret, mistake on US court filing suggests
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/nov/16/julian-assange-charged-in-secret-mistake-on-us-court-filing-suggests
Quote
Court filing submitted by US authorities in an unrelated case mentioned existence of criminal charges against someone named ‘Assange’

You can read the document at the link. Just a copy-paste error. The secret/unknown source document about Assange could as well have been a draft. Don't waste time and neurons on this until further news.
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sidd

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2018, 06:18:57 AM »
Now here's the CIA getting down'n'dirty wrestling with the pigs. Leaks to wapo and nyt nailing bonesaw, implicating brother, and claiming bonesaw will nevertheless probably succeed to the throne.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/16/us/politics/cia-saudi-crown-prince-khashoggi.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/cia-concludes-saudi-crown-prince-ordered-jamal-khashoggis-assassination/2018/11/16/98c89fe6-e9b2-11e8-a939-9469f1166f9d_story.html

I have always been skeptical on state intelligence revelations. Of more interest is why someone(s) in the CIA want this published, and who those someone(s) might be.

As to the who, i would look carefully at Brennan's clique remnants in the CIA. They were close to a previous heir, now ousted, a charming guy called Mohammed bin Nayef. As to the why, I suspect partly to weaken trump.

sidd
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 06:41:19 AM by sidd »

Buddy

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2018, 01:14:29 AM »
Ditto re: ASLR’s sentiments.  Really a shame.  Good luck to all, and always follow the truth.
FOX (RT) News....."The Trump Channel.....where truth and journalism are dead."

Neven

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #34 on: November 20, 2018, 11:23:35 AM »
Neven, while you are busy censoring posters here, could you please answer the question asked :

Sure enough, Trump was an asshole for revoking Acosta's WH press pass.
But what exactly did Acosta do wrong for you to call him an asshole ?

Neven: "Trump and Acosta are both assholes, creating controversy for personal gains."
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sidd

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #35 on: November 20, 2018, 10:57:36 PM »
The fakest news in town: Trump-Acosta feud

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/11/13/donald-trump-jim-acosta-222463

Trump needs his enemies. And his enemies do not understand this, or perhaps do not wish to, for they need him.

sidd

litesong

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2018, 12:54:49 AM »
Trump..... asshole.....
Neven calling "don''T rump" such, means that the only problem with "don'T rump" is his personality. No. "don'T rump" is a sexist, racist xenophobe, now with enough power to grow millions more chauvinistic, prejudiced, kkk(always small letters) personas. The father of "don'T rump" was at a kkk(always small letters) rally, gathering information how to raise his son. He succeeded.
 Coupled with that, putin probably bailed "don'T rump" out of bankruptcy & "don'T rump" has been owned by putin by hundreds of millions of dollars, while "don'T rump" laundered all the russian billionaires' stolen billions. 

Pmt111500

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2018, 07:56:31 AM »
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

sidd

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #38 on: November 22, 2018, 10:07:23 PM »
Comey, Lynch subpoenad by lame duck republican judiciary committee:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/22/politics/house-judiciary-committee-james-comey-loretta-lynch/index.html

sidd

longwalks1

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #39 on: November 23, 2018, 07:31:44 PM »
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/23/trump-supporters-and-wrestling-mania/

In one house I worked at (not that long ago) I was paid to be present during WWE raw on tv.  Not my cup of tea.  And the ground breaking first WWE trip to Saudi Arabia and especially featuring women wrestlers.  Proving how much Saudi is changing.  And all ot these women wrestlers gushing about women getting to drive now in Saudi, but missing the point was that crucial Saudi women who campaigned on that prior were jailed or arrested in house to deter any other more push for women to obtain other rights.  But I am in another house, no more wrestling for a bit. 

Tor Bejnar

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #40 on: November 23, 2018, 07:41:22 PM »
Soybeans Are Fungible
Electoral-vote.com

Quote
When politicians violate domestic laws, they may or may not get away with it. When they violate the laws of economics, economics always wins. Case in point: soybeans. Every soybean looks pretty much like every other soybean. You really can't tell them apart. As a result of the trade war that Donald Trump started with China and the Chinese retaliatory tariffs, U.S. soybean exports to China have dropped 98%.

Fortunately, U.S. soybean farmers are creative, so they started selling a large volume of soybeans to Brazil and Argentina. However, these countries also produce a large volume of soybeans themselves. So what are they doing with their domestic soybeans? Selling them to China, naturally. The net result is that China ends up with as many soybeans as it wants anyway, but U.S. farmers get less money because the South Americans can't pay as much as the Chinese for the beans. The moral of the story is that tariffs often don't achieve the goal they were intended to produce (in this case, to hurt China) but end up damaging the country that started the trade war in the first place.
Arctic ice is healthy for children and other living things.

Pmt111500

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 07:21:27 PM »
Manafort has apparently lied in an investigation. This is probably just an error of a frail and forgetful mind. Will he plead on undiagnosed amnesia,?
Amateur observations of Sea Ice since 2003.

Martin Gisser

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #42 on: November 28, 2018, 05:04:36 AM »
Manafort has apparently lied in an investigation. This is probably just an error of a frail and forgetful mind.
Or a fearful mind. Fearful of his Russian/Ukrainian overlords. We will see.
https://www.businessinsider.de/court-document-shows-oleg-deripaska-loaned-paul-manafort-10-million-2018-6

(Wrong thread? :) )
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Neven

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #43 on: November 28, 2018, 11:09:57 PM »
No, perfect for this thread.
Compare, compare, compare

NevB

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #44 on: November 30, 2018, 12:13:49 AM »
Just Theatre

Quote
President Donald Trump’s company planned to give a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow to Russian President Vladimir Putin as the company negotiated the luxury real estate development during the 2016 campaign, according to four people, one of them the originator of the plan.

Two US law enforcement officials told BuzzFeed News that Michael Cohen, Trump’s personal lawyer at the time, discussed the idea with a representative of Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s press secretary.


https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the

TerryM

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #45 on: November 30, 2018, 01:21:15 AM »
Just Theatre

Quote
President Donald Trump’s company planned to give a $50 million penthouse at Trump Tower Moscow to Russian President Vladimir Putin as the company negotiated the luxury real estate development during the 2016 campaign, according to four people, one of them the originator of the plan.

Two US law enforcement officials told BuzzFeed News that Michael Cohen, Trump’s personal lawyer at the time, discussed the idea with a representative of Dmitry Peskov, Putin’s press secretary.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/anthonycormier/the-trump-organization-planned-to-give-vladimir-putin-the


Because representatives of press secretaries need to be kept in the loop. ::)
Terry

Neven

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2018, 11:49:54 AM »
As if Putin can't get a penthouse in his own bloody country.  ::)

These people don't think like us, so it's no use projecting onto them, even though the media wants us to.
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Red

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2018, 12:30:55 PM »
Alessandro Bianchi: Let’s start from today’s crisis in the Sea of Azov. The European Union and NATO have given full support to Ukraine after the violation of Russian sovereignty by two Ukrainian vessels. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg gave his full support to Poroshenko, who declared martial law. What does a country like Italy risk in continuing its accession to NATO?

Andre Vltchek: Russia intercepted three Ukrainian ships in the Kerch Strait. The ships had, even according to Ukrainian authorities, several intelligence officers on board, as well as a number of light arms and machine guns. It was clear provocation, as the ships refused to inform Russian authorities about their intentions, and behaved in an aggressive manner. They were passing through Russian territorial waters. Ukrainian intelligence officers were obviously in charge of the entire operation. So, what is really so ‘alarming’ for the West? The ships were stopped, some crew members detained, and there is a serious investigation underway.

The ‘incident’ took place just days before the G20 meeting in Argentina, where Presidents Trump and Putin were supposed to meet. Also, it is only 4 months before the Ukrainian Presidential elections (March 2019), and Poroshenko is trailing behind the two leading candidates with only 8% of support. Ukraine under his leadership is so messed up that many flats in the capital city of Kiev will not be heated during this winter. Logically, Poroshenko provoked the crises, so he could pose as a strongman, hoping to at least gain some popularity. He has imposed martial law, for 30 days, although originally, he wanted it to last for 2 months. What does it mean? The press will be censored and criticism of the government, limited. Good for the grotesquely unpopular president? Definitely.

Also, it is obvious that the West, particularly the EU and NATO, are behind this new wave of dangerous madness.

Italy is part of both EU and NATO. As I am writing in my new essay, it is a nonsense to believe that “Europeans are brainwashed; that they do not know what the West is doing all over the world”. They know, or they at least suspect – most of them. But they pretend that they don’t know. In Europe, there is a shadowy deal between the government, corporations and the people. People want more benefits, and they do not care that the benefits come from plundering the world. If they get their benefits, they shut up. If they think they are getting too little, they protest, like recently in Paris. But do they care if tens of millions of ‘un-people’ die for those benefits? Of course not!

The same when it comes to Russia, China or Iran. Europeans in general and Italians in particular, know that there is some sort of vicious propaganda against those countries that refuse to yield to the Western diktat. But they will do nothing to stop it. It is sweet, isn’t it, to feel superior, ‘democratic’, and ‘free’. And it is horrible to admit that one lives in a place that is spreading terror to all corners of the world, robbing even the poor of all they have. These six weeks vacations could turn sour, if Italians were to decide to see who is really paying for them. So, they shut up, and will shut up, until it is ‘too late’.

Remember, countries like Russia and China have their own ‘democracies’ (rule of the people). It is not the Western system. Rulers and the masses communicate and interact in a direct way, in a very distinctive manner. And in both Russia and China, the people have ‘had enough’ of being bullied and brutalized by the West, for decades and centuries. Just a little bit more, and things will explode. If pushed further, Russia and China will respond. If provoked militarily, they will defend themselves. The same goes for Iran. Being part of the grouping that is terrorizing the world, Italy will have to pay the price, too.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/crisis-in-the-sea-of-azov-confronting-russia-dangerous-madness-the-risk-of-war-is-real/5661383

Lurk

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2018, 02:35:52 PM »
Alessandro Bianchi: Let’s start from today’s crisis in the Sea of Azov. The European Union and NATO have given full support to Ukraine after the violation of Russian sovereignty by two Ukrainian vessels. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg gave his full support to Poroshenko, who declared martial law. What does a country like Italy risk in continuing its accession to NATO?

Erm, um, yeah. That's right. It's spot on. No, the people in 'the west', be they Italy or anyone else, really do not care and do not want to know about it. Period.

But that's ok, one day it will be impossible to ignore any longer.
American journalist Walter Lippmann observed, “Where all think alike, no one thinks very much!”
To Solve Climate Change ~ Change the System, because it changes nothing when nothing changes!

TerryM

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Re: Political theatre/wrestling
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2018, 08:26:32 PM »
Alessandro Bianchi: Let’s start from today’s crisis in the Sea of Azov. The European Union and NATO have given full support to Ukraine after the violation of Russian sovereignty by two Ukrainian vessels. NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg gave his full support to Poroshenko, who declared martial law. What does a country like Italy risk in continuing its accession to NATO?

Erm, um, yeah. That's right. It's spot on. No, the people in 'the west', be they Italy or anyone else, really do not care and do not want to know about it. Period.

But that's ok, one day it will be impossible to ignore any longer.


To quote that oh so generous cookie lady, "Fuque the Eu"
It's difficult to understand why so many Europeans don't understand who their enemy is. I'd always understood that many Europeans were fluent, at least to some degree in English.


Terry